 sounds good so I think today it looks like we have a pretty lean meeting thank you everybody for hopping on good mix of attendees today awesome so pretty pretty lean meeting as I mentioned I think everyone on here has already been introduced in the call but I don't see everyone's avatar so please interrupt me if that's not the case does anyone have anything cool or less regulars that I can rhyme them are not always here but the rest are awesome does anyone have anything they'd like to put on the agenda before we dig in and you can do that throughout the call too of course all right so on my end here I have things a little bit more low fidelity this week than usual so apologies for that I don't have a design deck prepared per se but what I do have is a couple of mugs to kind of walk through with you all just in screenshot form and talk about a couple of things that are going on so let's hop right in with that so last sig meeting we took a look at this screen that we have on here what this is is an attempt to kind of reconcile the layout and improve the usability of the welcome screen within Jenkins welcome screen is not a super high impact screen arguably not a lot of people see it and those who do are typically not seeing it very often and then once they do see it and get through it or move past it they don't need to to be reminded of all of these different options so much in the future typically that's some really good feedback from this group in the last session and also from some other developers throughout the community that have reached out to you since then and have an update on this layout so this is still very much a work in progress but a couple of changes to share and of course feedback is welcome here so this is where we were before and here's how it has evolved since then so I'm gonna be toggling back and forth a few times here so that we can look at some of the some of the differences actually I wonder if I should you know what bear with me everyone I'm sorry I'm just gonna open this guy I'm trying to screenshot the thing for the minutes but you're moving too far sorry about that give me one second here and then I'll have a good screenshot for you that's not what we want either there we go cool alright so here on the left is what we had last last session you can see that a lot of the elements are pretty much the same here right of course the goal is not to to change fundamentally how this this part of the experience works it's more about updating the style and then sort of behind the scenes also trying to create something that is reusable in the future that is extensible and something that we might be able to leverage to solve for information density on different screens throughout the UI so we're starting with this relatively low impact screen but we want to create something that is really useful for other areas throughout Jenkins so on the left is where we were you'll see that on the right we have removed the title the title prompt and the detail here and this is all no longer contained inside of a single card but this what the solution on the left here was doing was kind of oversimplifying this I think and reducing it down to bring every possible option to the same level of prominence and that's just usually not the case especially when we think about making this an extensible element these are these different elements can be grouped differently for example the first two items here are a lot more relevant to one another and don't really along at the same level of prominence as this third item and we also have an extensibility issue here with this resource link at the bottom where it can be really difficult to determine which option this particular documentation link refers to imagine having two three five or seven of them here it doesn't you know technically feasible to stack them certainly but doesn't result in great experience so over here on the right we've we've made it a little bit more complicated which is a good trade-off certainly to have it more extensible so we have a couple of groupings here we have set up a distributed build and create a job now the exact hierarchy of the elements in this screen can still be changed certainly this is still a work in progress but you'll see that we've adjusted the design so that we can associate particular documentation links with with each option is that may not be necessary here but again we want to create something we can reuse down the line and this is something that might be very helpful in the future I'll stop there because I'm just kind of rambling anyone have any thoughts or questions or feedback at this point we're really nice yeah I like it yeah it's very yeah so I think it's good you can have multiple links because then you can like link to you know tutorials or videos or you know different types of things some people just want the basic you know raw docs and other people want step-by-step you know yeah I mean and then being able to delineate or I guess distinguish between which links are for which option it's really key here just a dumb question but when you refer to card set up an agent it's one card plus the two links and then configure cloud is another card or so card is a card is a bit of an amorphous term the way that I'm referring to it here and people use it differently is is essentially just this shape and in the fact that it was all contained the entire functionality of the screen was contained in this one shape this one card so the whole thing is the card then precisely yeah that was the idea with this and that was pretty intentional but it was a too simple and didn't allow for much extensibility so so we still just have one card in the native sign or just so what we've done here is we've moved away from from a single card approach right technically you can call these these different elements cards and the exact terminology that we want to label them you know we get to decide that but yeah the idea is that these stacks of elements essentially would be reconfigurable for other other bits of information throughout the UI yeah okay makes sense to me so just a side question Joe you talk about reusing the component do you have already something in mind for another page for such things yeah without so I'm working on a couple of concepts here that we'll share in the next SIG meeting that are not quite mature enough frankly for my own notification I'm still thinking through them but I think that something roughly similar to this not exactly like this can be done to help organized build status pages for example pipeline pages there's a there's a lot of possibilities there and I'm kind of working through some of those ideas right now it's still very rough okay nice thank you sure on a fundamental level we want to see if we can make this an opportunity to organize things because right now there's a lot of stacked stuff that plugins contribute to the UI as we all know and better hierarchy more clarity would be would be awesome let's see here without further ado let's look at the next one some login screen explorations you're gonna have to bear with me everyone sorry for not having it up here all right so this is something we have tinkered with in the past but it has not made its way to open source Jenkins so on the left here we have our current login screen it's very similar to the Jenkins is preparing to I forget what the exact phrase this Jenkins is preparing to work or Jenkins is getting ready that screen for the instance is being confirmed I forget the exact phrase but there's some very minimal screens here that get the job done but I think as we have been creating all of our baseline styles we have an opportunity to modernize the screen a little bit make it a little nicer make it a little more usable again these are primarily just styling changes the rest is pretty self-explanatory so we're exploring that a little bit have this one design on the right this that's the new one or is the sorry so the design on the left is the old login screen and the one on the right is sort of exploration or or are they both new the one on the left is the current login yeah okay I thought it was yeah yeah so this is where it is today and this is the exact same thing styled styled more nicely the key thing is we wouldn't want to come in and throw styles of the screen like this prematurely like two months ago it wouldn't have made as much sense because we didn't have the typography where it is today we didn't have the colors where they are today now we have those styles and we can feed them right into this and there's more we can do with this certainly we can highlight some more of the the great functionalities of Jenkins and this I looked at directly from from Jenkins dot I Jenkins dot IO believe yeah so very straightforward improvement here but this might be a nice thing for us to do and just to learn that that's it for this one really I like it cool I mean yeah like you said I mean we could have different messages there yeah yeah it's kind of a blank canvas right right now it's it's so minimal that we can do what we want with it a little bit I think that this is probably a rare opportunity to do something relatively low friction for a relatively nice payoff because the screen for folks who use the UI is seen relatively it's a it's a you see this certainly I see this a good amount of times because I forget to keep myself signed in it's just a more of a branding exercise using our baseline styles than anything else but I think yeah it's not used so much in a lot of companies with SSO but the ones using LDAC or local is so I never see the screen but I'm developing yeah yeah it makes sense I think if this were a huge a huge undertaking or anything like that that it would not be worth it to redesign it frankly I feel it's maybe you could speak to it a little more but I think this should be a relatively straightforward implementation you know when we can get around to it certainly not an urgent item yeah it's straightforward indeed I mean it's also maybe we all would also like to consider uh extensibility regarding the logo and stuff so that companies can have their own welcome screen or something but yeah the styles themselves are really easy it's actually an opportunity to integrate the login styles into the color palette yeah for sure cool any other feedback or questions on this one all right so without further ado I think actually we might have an item here that we forgot to remove from last week Felix should I remove this one um yeah uh yeah we talked about that last week quick reminder we are really needing to start what to do next we are doing discovery we we will finish CSS only work and aesthetic only changes right then we get done with icons and these nice empty states that Joe has shared and after that we will probably be looking into deeper changes like I don't know credentials plugin ribbon middle history page whatever it depends on what theme shows us next so so Tim do you want to share some backstage Jenkins plugin updates here yep all right I'll stop sharing my screen if you're going to share no problems that is an intense background Tim cool and you got to see my screen so this is the backstage website it's just a quick intro into backstage if you haven't seen it before it's it's mostly used as like a developer portal just to centralize all your developer tooling in one place just integrating all of your so you've got a lot of services you've got a lot of documentation and you need to create get you need to create get repos you may need to create environments you you've got builds you've got quality on your builds and so this is just trying to bring all those metrics and tasks into one place and even doing things like removing documentation by just adding tasks into here that you can just put to a workflow to just simplifying the developer development experience so I've just done a private concept or alpha Jenkins plugin for this which brings the Jenkins build results into it I'll just give a quick view through what the what you saw on that website is the Spotify internal version they've been sourced it back in March and it looks a bit different it's got the same goals but it just doesn't quite look the same so this is the homepage this is the service catalog so you see all of the all of your microservices or components or whatever you call them here but you can also have it also supports other other things so not just applications it supports websites libraries documentation or whatever it's all driven based off Kubernetes likes and descriptors so it's just a file which has its name and then the annotations describe additional information on it so I've said add some Jenkins specific configuration which basically says what GitHub organization and repo it's in because it's using GitHub organization folders you'll see other things here like the documentation that's being published you can create a GitHub repo so I can go in here and choose for a small form and say where it's going to go and then it will create a GitHub repo based on a template and then there's some other plugins as well so I'm just going to show the Jenkins plugin so this here is the RPU suite backend it's got a last master build widget which shows the build status and the link through to Jenkins and you see here this has gone through to build 22 which is the last one for RPE suite backend and then there's another widget here which is the build details widget which shows all the builds for this application so it's got the status a lot of them have failed but you've got down here we've got some different test results so it's showing a test report and that links through to the Jenkins test report as well and you can link and then it's all linked in to get this all integrated with GitHub for like GitHub pull request or the GitHub branch and there's also a build details view as well so this is a summary of the build with the title it's more information and you can go and view it on Jenkins or view it on GitHub and as more people use it then it can be filled in with more information like get commits get branch and the actual build log as well potentially but the build logs are quite a bit of work but this is just basically an initial alpha version of the plugin there's a pull request up on this for on Spotify backstage so backstage is the Spotify product or Spotify kind of open source yeah it's a Spotify open source product with the open source back in March but it's got quite a good companies are looking to pick it up or have adopted it except for Jenkins builds I mean what do people normally use this for well I guess not for Jenkins builds normally because it wasn't a plugin but what's the kind of typical use case just looking here back at the video so this is basically the hot they've got their squad metrics which is all of the metrics for their team so it's a central view of all of your applications in one place built off live data so one problem in organizations is you just get so many applications that you lose them you don't know who owns them you don't know who to contact and things like API docs your API docs might be in a different system so in this you can embed your API documentation for the service in one place and the other thing is yeah creating so onboarding a new team is like creating all the repos that they need creating maybe a GCP project so in here there's a GCP plugin where you can create a GCP project you just fill out the fields and it automatically does it for you so one major use case is like is creating repositories based on a organization template so you can define templates for your Java and Node.js your go your libraries all pre-baked with all the organization specific configuration so rather than using like different templating engines for each library you just put a user it doesn't matter they don't need to worry about it it's basically trying to just bring all of the different tools into one place yeah does anyone want to see anything else on this just just to clarify something you could you're developed and contributed this plugin for backstage right yeah yeah where I got this is awesome sorry this is really Jenkins plugin or is this the backstage plugin this is a backstage plugin for Jenkins um but it runs in I mean it's written in backstage yeah yeah it's written in backstage yeah it's here so it's all um it's all written in tight script and react right nice cool really cool thank you for sharing it yes some level this competes a little with CloudBees SDM though it's probably a little bit of a different focus but I'm just thinking about CloudBees is working on the software delivery management tool not that this really matters in open source context it's more an observation oh not I mean yeah nice awesome yeah especially if this is a I think you said they open source are back in March is that the case yeah yeah it's in March and it's it's got it's very active okay I was just gonna say yes and sometimes these things take right off right so being able to connect to Jenkins is pretty awesome yeah I've got a team working on it and there's lots of contributors from different companies there's some major contributions as well so API documentation was completely contributed by one company um and lots of other random contributors coming in cool well thank you Tim it looks like we have a line item for tables to do is was that carry over from last session I was just a brief update so I got all the earth tests that were reported by Felix through all passing now not quite all of them emerged but most of them emerged so I think it was about about five so there's Felix reported about 60 70 issues but only about five or six of them were earth tests so those are the ones that are easier to fix and reproduce and out of those I think two of them were actual issues and the other four of them were well two of them were unrelated breakages and that were mostly done by this by this project by the CSS refresh broke a lot of earth selectors and then two of them were table selectors broken but that's so that's all sorted now I think there's a PCT one in the declarative pipeline to take a look at but apart from that those are all the null and breakages left I'm sure there's more breakages but I'm not sure what the plan was taking it forward Daniel Beck asked about whether we plan to unhold it now that the LTS baseline cutoff has happened or whether we want to do some more work on fixing plugins or more exploratory work on seeing if we can do it without having to fix plugins so you're saying you so you're suggesting we continue fixing plugins or so basically what what's what in what what in european would be stopping this from being mapped right now I think we really just need matrix auth released really so because matrix all matrix auth is quite a major plugin I think I gave a list of the pending pull requests Oleg merged and released his I think there's a pipeline plugin that needs releasing so I think it was merged a couple of months ago but it wasn't released so I think that needs releasing but I think I think we've done all the all the major ones that we're aware of it's a bit of a pain because a lot of our tests are broken anyway it'd be nice to have like a green f run but there's so many broken tests that you can't really do that can you repeat that the last thing please that's a quite a few hth tests are already failing for unrelated unrelated reasons yeah no yeah we those eight h test failures we just we are we have a building in the running goal is we are building the form changes against the ath to make sure nothing breaks so that's how we found out about those and that's how uh well I think out of all of those only one was not due to this um there was two I think there was the side yeah there was something something else and you're right and the cask plugin yes yeah um so right now I really don't know because I really would like the layer breaking stuff fixed but if it's not possible at least I would like to see it just know if it's not possible so what would you do you have a target date or an ETA for what the match could happen um there's no real date it's just um we have a window now that we're early in the weekly um so it's we're past the LTS cutoff and it's quite matured um on the other side it's less effort to maintain it now we've mainlined so we've mainlined all the javascript changes and all the css changes are all mainlines um so we've we've had those in for about the last three week please um I think we had a couple of we had a couple of very minor issues I think but nothing serious no I we actually I think we I found one writing it to you yeah yeah is there anything yeah what do we think do we think it's worth proposing it for merging it soon or I think we've still got more outstanding issues to fix and I'll write now you need to sleep on it yeah well let's I think let's get those plugins released anyway and once the plugins are released there's probably nothing blocking it and just do some more exploratory testing um okay perfect yeah it'd be great to ship it if we can like it's it's been there for well over a year now yes all right well thank you for the update um looks like we had nothing else on the list for today does anyone have anything you'd like to raise okay all right well that's it for today's session short one but a good one thank you everybody and we'll see you soon thanks everybody thanks everybody see you soon bye bye