 And I'm very happy to have two speakers here who will tell us about their experiences on the Juventa, the ship that was seized in August this year. Katrin has been doing search and rescue operations in the Mediterranean since two years, and she was on board when the boat was seized, when the Juventa was seized, and she was even head of staff. Hendrik has also been active in search and rescue operation as a RIP, RIP, which is a kind of special function, and he's also been doing this for two years, approximately for different NGOs. And I'm very happy that they're here and can tell us about what happened on the Juventa. So we have translation to German on the mumble that is in the back now, and yeah. Please welcome them to, with a big applause, thank you. Hello, you hear the talk, the seizure of the Juventa, the attack on the Juventa, from 34th Chaos Communication Congress in the translation of Siri and Philipp. Hello everybody, welcome to the talk. We are glad that a few people made it here. We actually planned for the talk. When we planned for this talk, we planned for an hour, so there's a lot of content in the description. And we noticed two weeks ago that we only had half an hour. So we really have to focus on it now. What I will do, I will give you a quick introduction. I will give you a little introduction in the Mediterranean area, where we move to the Middle East. And after that, we will talk about the actual seizure of the Juventa. This is Katrin, I'm Henrik, if you've already noticed. So yeah, I like maps. So I put this map in the slides. So I put this map in there. So migration has happened, we all know that. People want to get to Europe for a better and safer life. And they flee from various reasons. War, violence, discrimination, or poverty. They all have their reasons at home to disappear. And what we see here are the routes that take these refugees. And they change constantly. And that also depends on the changing political environment. We have different routes through the Mediterranean for a while. We have the eastern route. It was very famous two years ago when many people moved from Turkey to Greece. That was basically closed. We have the western route, ten to fifteen years ago, when people from Morocco wanted to go to Spain and over the Canary Islands. And at the moment we're looking at the middle of the Mediterranean, where most of the migration is happening. People mostly want to go from Libya. That's the brown thing down there, to Italy. In the last couple of months, there were also people from Tunisia who wanted to go over there. But still the majority of the migration is happening through Libya. So to give you a better understanding of what we're talking about, we drew a map with a couple of distances. This is a Nautical Mile. That's the unit we use to give you an example. Under perfect conditions, there will be a refugee boat that will leave Libya for three days in Lampedusa. More than four days in Malta and five and a half in Sicily. That would be under perfect conditions. There are always waves and winds. The boats don't have a compass and don't know where they want to go. So the only boat that we know that came to Malta was for eight days on the way. These distances that people cross are very long. So the classic boats we encounter are these here. Below you see a wooden boat. These are very different, big. From 100 to 1000 people, almost everything is on it. Mostly 500 people, plus or minus 100. But up to 1000 people fit in. And on the upper part you see the typical boat that was used last summer. The scummy boat, 120 to 150 people fit in. But we also have 180 people in it. So these conditions, like these boats, the long distances, these are not really seawater boats, they make the most dangerous route in the world. Most people who want to cross the border want to die. They do that in the Mediterranean. These are statistics from Missing Migrants Project. They collect data only from the known dead. And these are not absolute numbers. These are just the relation. The big, dark, blue part is the part of people who die in the Mediterranean compared to the rest of the world. So I think you see that the Mediterranean is a very dangerous route. But people have to take this route, because Europe and its allies take the shorter and safer routes. That's international law. Law requires that we meet people in need. And we have always followed these laws of the sea and that usually is up to the European Union, but they are willing to do that. So we are ready to rescue these people. So the region we are operating in... Thanks. The region we are operating in is also regulated by international laws. We have Libyan law, where the Libyan law attacks. And then there is the zone where the 12-mile zone... That is also part of the Libyan... ...international waters. But it is also part of international law. Law enforcement rights are still international waters. And that is the international waters, in which the authorities have a lot of time, but it is in principle international waters. And that is the area where we find the most boats. And that is where we work up to the 12-mile zone. So to be able to conduct effective operations, we need, of course, to buy a ship. To do that, we have to... We have to buy a ship. Then we bought the Juventa. And the Juventa was sent to the area where most of the boats were sent to the area where most of the boats were sent to. And that means we are actively looking for boats to search for them. So we cannot wait on Malta until ships get there. And these boats are moving slowly, so we cannot wait on Malta, because it will take 24 hours until we get there. For us it is important when people leave the coast. Because the boats you saw earlier... They are actually necessary as soon as they get to the open sea. So we need to go there before they depart. The Juventa is a very small ship. There is not much people fitting on there. And the transfer usually can take only the crew. When we find the boats in the stress, we take the life jackets, and bring out life rafts and evacuate people on the life rafts. You can see one of the bigger ships here. It is the Vosprudens. This is the Vosprudens. It was used by MSF. And it can take way more people. And it can take way more people. And it can take way more people. And it can take way more people. And it can take way more people. Together with these ships, we work with the anchors in Rome. So... And they are responsible for the necessary quotient of thisipping. And they have to coordinate it. And they have to coordinate it. They always organize the transport of these migrants and do it with these ships and don't do it by themselves. But you have to pay attention that it is not an unappreciative action, but that it belongs to the Italian government. This is an advice from the Innenministerium. As I have already said, the Juventa is not meant to transport people, but to secure them. That was always communicated with the MRCC. We were always the first helpers and then the situation ensured. This is how we operated from the beginning. We also operated with another NGO ship. We were the first to secure the people and then we transferred them to Italy. All the other NGOs help there. We are not alone. This was a successful proof of the concept. The concept is that we have smaller boats that secure the people. As soon as they are secure, they transfer them to the bigger ships and bring them to a safe place. In May 2017, something changed for Juventa. Suddenly things started changing. One thing I want to emphasize again is that everything we have done is under coordination in Rome and Italy. Until then, we had a very good working relationship with the successful and very efficient search operations. Maybe a little bit too efficient. We can say that a chain of interesting events in May began. The situation we are talking about now is when we received emergency signals from various refugee boats. We called these boats and they asked us for help to rescue these people. Until then, this was not an unusual situation. But then we suddenly had to leave the rescue zone and go to Lampedusa. To make that clear, we were told to ignore emergency signals that were in life. And go away. This has never happened before. As you can imagine, we were a little bit pulled back. Should we do that or not? We would have had to follow the sequence. But that would have meant that we had to leave people in need. And I can remember the people who had kept the youth in the zone. But at some point we had to leave and go to Lampedusa. And later we learned that these two days in which the youth were not there, that one of the most active rescue periods was in 2017. Several hundred people lost their lives. And the remaining capacities in the rescue zone were simply not large enough. So this very procedure happened twice. Once again in May and once again in June. And once again we were absolutely dark about what could have happened to the devil. And we realized that something had changed. The good working relationship with the MICC was no longer so good. But we did not understand what happened. Why did they take so much of themselves? And I mean, we have to realize that we have to recognize that this is an authority. Because the task is to coordinate rescues, to save people on the lake. And they pull back and reduce active search and rescue ships from the time zones and places where they are most needed. And we are very surprised and I would say speechless. And of course we could expect many scenarios. We could imagine that the situation in which they were not quite easy. We have often said that this is not likely because they are totally overwhelmed with these more complicated rescues in the middle of the sea. And that just leads to a bad decision. But these things just happened more often. And at the end of July the Italian coast guard took two migrants aboard the Juventa. They took them on a very small rubber boat from Tripoli and they asked us to take them aboard. So it was a bit strange that it never happened before. We just learned from Henrik. Their boats are usually a bit bigger than four meters and there are mostly more people than two on it. But what happened out there is of course never normal. So we took these two people aboard. And we kept these people on the boat for two days before we had any instructions on what we should continue. But I somehow expected that we would continue to Lampedusa. So on the way to Lampedusa, halfway around, we got another emergency signal from Rome about a boat that just left Tunisia in the early morning. And what was really interesting on that day was that we had super precise instructions on how to carry out our search pattern with coordinates and distances and exact speeds. And they were in absolute control about what and how we did it and always made sure that we followed their plan. It never happened before because they were never really interested in it. They were interested in how we did it as long as we did something. While they were making us perform a search pattern, they would have taken us three days to complete. They gave us a search pattern that would take three days to complete and they didn't need official instructions or any number to register it. That would be necessary for the process. Probably worth adding is that also the Lampedusa is the only ship that... And they should also add that the Lampedusa was the only ship that was involved in it. Between Tunisia and Lampedusa had not been... And some ships in between were not informed and they were in the region. The MSCC was asked, but she continued to ask and we said that we couldn't allow them to join into the search. And then they allowed them to participate and to try the surveillance plane by SeaWatch, the Moonbird. And it was completely rejected. We also requested a private search plane, but it was rejected from morning until evening and it was never left. And do you believe it or not? We were still not convinced that the MSCC... ...the Ministry of Interior in Italy... ...we were still... ...we never believed that the police could do something like that. We simply couldn't imagine where it would lead us. We reached Italian territory waters. At the moment where we reached Italian territory... ...four coast guard ships accompanied us to Lampedusa. And we were searched and captured on the 2nd of October. The 2nd of August. And then it slowly became clear what would happen there. And now we can search as well as for the seafarers... ...one day before we actually came to Lampedusa. And the whole search was followed by the media. And they waited in the middle of the night for us at the dock. And then we thought about where the search was going to lead us. And then we thought about where the search was going to lead us. And then we thought about where the search pattern was going to lead us. But one thing we know for sure now is that when they withdrew the Juventa... ...when they took the Juventa out of the dock... ...they stole a buck on the bridge. That was a price they were willing to pay to leave a wall on the bridge. The Juventa back to Lampedusa, I mean now that kind of starts making sense. And now the fact that the Juventa is often ordered back makes sense. Maybe the SD card wasn't that big. Round about the same time when the buck was installed... ...when the wall was placed on the bridge. There was also one undercover cop place on another private... ...it was also a... ...a policeman covered on another ship placed. ...by the Italian authorities was started as early as September 2016. And the actions of the Italian police were started as early as August 2016. They had not only organized crime in Sicily... ...special police forces that were responsible for organized crimes... ...but also political people in Italy. And the statements didn't match... ...but still they had a large investigation... ...proclaimed. What they did was that we had illegal immigration... ...that we had weapons until this day... ...and until this day there are no... ...no evidence against any crew member or organization. And I think that's also good for them... ...because what they wanted they have... ...they have bought time, they have a ship less... ...in the rescue area. And as soon as they have a court... ...they have to prove what could be a problem for them. So the seizure of the Juventus was a preventive measure... ...and it was only enabled by anti-mafia laws... ...that were allowed. They were also used for similar things... ...for example Cup at the Moor in 2005... ...and Tunisian Fisher in 2007. In both cases they were... ...entered by the attack, but of course the damage was done. And of course we went against it in between... ...in a court, but it was given back... ...and it was continued in the court of law... ...and we are now waiting for them to decide... ...if the seizure of the Juventus was legal or not. So what we had to learn in the afternoon... ...was that the seizure of the Juventus was only a small part... ...in a much larger political fight. What the EU actually wants is... ...that the central Mediterranean route is closed... ...and what they also don't want are pictures of people... ...so what they don't want is ships to be sent to send these people... ...but they want to get rid of the witnesses... ...who document the drinking of people and save them. So they want to work on the NGOs. So what we learned is that the fight for the Juventus... ...which we are currently fighting is not a legal fight... ...but a political fight... ...and we are fighting this fight together with a lot of other NGOs... ...who are most active there. For us, of course, the name of the fight is a fight back... ...we don't have ships we can operate with... ...but I can still see with all this pressure... ...there are sometimes positive surprises... ...for example in December when the UN... ...made an evacuation flight from Libya to Europe... ...and that was only possible... ...because all the media work... ...that the NGOs did... ...so that they could react... ...and what it shows us was... ...that we have patience... ...and that we can always drill a few small holes... ...in the fortress of Europe. So let's continue this fight. Thank you very much. So we have questions... ...we have some microphones in the room... ...where you can go and... So hello. Thank you for the good work. You have a number... ...a gun... ...so it is no... ...there was no evidence for that... ...or evidence for that. And we have learned... ...that they had to add that... ...in order to justify the assault... ...otherwise the others wouldn't be... ...strong enough to justify the assault. Thank you for the talk. Three small questions. How much did the Juventure cost? What cost to buy a new ship? And is that possible? I don't know... ...how much the ship cost. Do you know that? I know about... ...how much the ship cost. Now... ...that would be... ...about... ...180 to 150,000... ...euros. And... ...is that possible or not? From an economic point of view... ...is that possible? People have already done that... ...it is probably possible to do it again... ...politically... ...it is probably difficult... ...to continue doing that. What are the right actions we can do? We have a question from the internet. Is that the only thing that happened to a ship... ...or are there other ships that were hit? The hit is unique... ...but there were other ships... ...that were searched by the police. Can I add something to the answer of that question? Can I add something to the question? In our act... ...we have evidence that they... ...were working against the Juventa crew. There were also evidence that they... ...used the other... ...cruises... ...and abandoned them. And we... ...used the other... ...cruises... ...and we were just... ...a longer... ...bis... ...I have half a year off... ...let's say... ...where... ...I sign... ...that sounds good... ...I can invite you to our assembly... ...that is the Juvenas assembly in hall 2. So just come and talk to us and talk to us and find us there. Okay, one last question. I hope it's a short question. I hope it's a short question. We only have two minutes. Thanks for the talk and thanks for the work you do. Was it actually legal? Was it legal operation they did that? Was it legal operation they did that? Was it legal operation they did that? We know that there is a WANZE because it is in the Act and the Act is 500 pages. We know the exact time and date when the WANZE and where it was built. We know not that action was legal because we are looking at Italian authorities. He doesn't know exactly how legal it is because in the Italian authorities, on a ship under a Dutch flag, many from Germany come. So far we have no clear answers to the question. We have asked some lawyers and it actually happens too often. We also invite you to come to our assembly and talk about it. Okay, so like the two said, assembly hall two, where you can meet them, where you can ask more questions. Thank you once again.