 Good evening everyone. I am Amanda Mati from South Africa and a digital media agency. I have a couple of questions But I'll stick to three key ones To start off with Stefan your stats. Are they not a representative of the cultural understanding of knowledge within the German community? I asked this in the context of South Africa where we've noted that Content that is usually negative is what spears the purchasing of newspapers in our in our country And it's what's driven a lot of our purchasing power and the print space as well as digital So just to understand is it is there no reference to that then In the context of digital and social media and I play in the social media space How from your expert advice do we make provision and in the inclusion of citizen journalism? We're we're looking at a lot of the fake news that are coming through that are actually citizen-based journalists I say journalists in an adverted comm is not really journalists, but people that are normal We know from the statistics that are released through the Facebook's and the Twitter's that a Mother will trust the advice of another mother a product supported by another mother How then are we not then breaking that barrier down and then lastly in the discussion about legalizations and regulations? I have a few issues about that, but it's debatable at what point do we bring in the startups? Into that conversation particularly about how we regulate the meters that are brought out It seems to me. It's like a barrier of entry for startups when we already have legal IT Matters great questions. Thank you this gentleman Please identify yourself. I'll go into energy. What I I guess I'm afraid it's more Reaction than a question, but I can put it in a question for me. I mean coming back on the legal Discussion we or presentation we had I I don't see why I mean when we talk about fake news that really have an impact on politics and democracy and Potentially on the election when you think that Donald Trump was elected with just 75,000 votes in three states You can assume that maybe the Russian interference had some impact at this Such a small margin. So if you compare with the financial markets where where and the dissemination of false information is very severely sanctioned criminally, I don't see why Intentional fake news in the sense of manipulation should not be also criminally sanctioned Then the question is where do you hit and there? You know, I recognize the difficulties but if you take a make an analogy with with corruption the fight against corruption the OECD convention against corruption decided to hit where it's Maybe the easiest. Maybe it's not fair. It's hard to Target corrupt for an official, but you can hit Companies that's corrupt them is faster and so more easily. Why and so I would this analogy I think the social networks are easier to target They've got plenty of money. They can either do more effort in monitoring the content and If not, they should be heavily sanctioned. Thank you And last point I think the US is in better position to do this and maybe that's what's happening now in Congress But if not other countries can do some of it The European Court of Justice had the right to be forgotten and that had a sort of global impact So I think things can be done. Merci. Thank you And then and then and mayor, please Yeah, my question is first of all, can you identify yourself to mine? Sorry carry on pretty hardy. I'm My question is based on what you're saying here Who should be the arbiter because we're talking about citizen-based As as the lady over here talked about but then you have the question for example That was brought up at a recent conference with Baltic Ambassadors where there was deliberate Misinformation being planted by state organisms. So it's not merely a question of what's coming out on social media But it's also what's coming out in state-sponsored organisms And that to me is something where you can't simply say that the arbiter should be a state-appointed regulator And so if you could speak to that I'd be great. Thank you That's a very good question having looked a lot at RT for instance. I'm Mr. Tree from Israel a few years ago I talked in this conference about the cyber and I would like to know what do you think about the cyber in this In this subject that we're speaking about because the cyber became to be much more stronger than ever before and it is Developing very very strongly And of course it have a very big influence about the possibility of creating a fake news because by cyber you can get immediately into almost every every site of every Campaign and everything and see everything in it. That's what happened in United States for example I would like to hear your relation about these cyber attacks. Thank you There are a couple at least one or two hands way in the back Or maybe I had a friend helping me My question is for you sorry just identify yourself my name is Natalie Cartwright I am one of the people who runs a startup I have a AI startup that works directly with banks and the reason why I'm at this conference is we're relatively Early-stage we're about series a but because of our channel partners with banks My product will be in the hands of tens of millions of people over the next couple years I'm really interested in having an ethical first approach But it's not that easy to know where to start or how to do that So I'd love your advice on on how someone in my position is able to do that What your what your approach would be and you also mentioned that you're interested in having that conversation Would love to be a part of it if it does happen. Thank you great Yes Cooper Hard to see Richard Cooper Harvard One of these speakers maybe to mentioned anonymity Could we do something about that? the Highways as Air Longer calls them Don't admit anyone on them without a name Now of course one can give fake names But you could make that illegal and therefore charge you pull so can we eliminate anonymity in these social media Thank you If there's one more fine and and then we'll go back to the panel. Yes, ma'am Sorry, thank you very much Daniel Khatib I want to ask we have been speaking here about fake news about who's responsible for that How to correct them my question is very simple Is it feasible giving the big amount of data that's on social media every day and now it is Radicalization is mostly done over the internet over social media. Is it feasible? Who can do that? Who can do such a big job? Thank you Yes, I think in the end you've asked the hardest question I think what I'll do given we've got a little time left is just go back to the panel and Have you respond to whatever has been addressed to you? But what makes sense to you and in the usual way we'll go in in reverse order. So Stefan Okay That was a very good question and of course Culture plays a big role and I even think it's it's human nature Culture is important also human nature We are drawn to things that steers up emotionally and actually fake news that work if you look at them But all the fake news that I have been really successful They are very emotional. They they touch you. I mean, this is why This why in Germany for example a lot of that is on on immigrant crime But then crime against vulnerable people against children against women, you know, because that's that steers you up emotionally and And and also the social networks have been they have been optimized to feed into that attention economy that we have and in and People click on that and therefore it also shows up in your news feed more and it feeds feeds more into it And so that's something we will have to talk about how we deal with that and how we how we reverse a process Where basically technology takes advantage of some issues with our Nature of being drawn into these emotional issues and the people are saying that we need to talk about for example how Algorithms select your news feed and that for example The user the user of Facebook should get control What kind of news they want to have featured do I want to see more my family, you know What's happening in the family or do I want to see more? diverse kind of news The ability to to really have your own say In terms of how you want to How come what kind of news you want to be fed on social media rather than the algorithm just picking up on your natural tendencies? We will have to have these kinds of conversations I wanted to make one brief comment on on the regulatory issue because Germany has just gone down this road this year and and adopted a law enforcing Facebook at Twitter social media companies to take down illegal speech within 24 hours and And and the focus you have to understand is illegal speech So libel if you if you tell lies about a person something like that hate speech hate speech Yeah, that that needs to be be taken down That's illegal speech in Germany and and if they don't take if those social media companies don't take it down Within 24 hours they can be heavily fined the problem is fake news Or it was the fake news that I've been seen are political fake news They wouldn't fall under this kind of law There's fake news most fake news in Germany is not illegal and not illegal and most democracies Especially if it's about political stories you want people to be able to express themselves freely So I'm very skeptical about Regulatory approaches because it starts already with the problem of how you define fake news that would be illegal and taking it down has huge implications for freedom of speech censorship, that's great, and I will I'll end it here. That's good. No, I mean part of the problem is speed. I mean 24 hours seems not very short frankly to take down hate speech and so To the to the last question the only way you can do this is with AI This technology there's no I mean there's millions of posts going up You will need smart technology to do this because there's no way that human beings can review all of this Which is a kind of part of our circular problem To what Stefan has said I think we should not be Decide to define legally what find It's so diverse that it's very difficult to define from the legal point of view it looks Something very complicated. So on the contrary that we use what we have and contextualize things the context is We have certain notions for trouble for example or progress to the public order so we have enough laws to Answer these questions, but to regulate everything we have a woman senator in France who made the draft law To answer the different questions that we raised I think we could do this idea of co-regulation because historically the right for Digital activities. This is soft law. It's not binding long. It is essentially Private origin and now we are in a trend where we have to co-regulate between public and private actors We have to have a sanctions that can be just Responsibility from responsibility Right we have low cases also which now deal with these cases and really bring Interpreted the existing regulations within the context of false news on the media Big amount of fake news there is no hundred percent solution out there So I think even if the governments of regulation tried to find put a 24 hours limit on that there is no hundred percent coverage because the amount of data the tools maybe to the artificial intention tools I think there is a way to close that gap, but I think it will be not there. So the current way how we do Issuing information I think needs a radical change and I think the gentleman from Harvard is the right one I think in the future you will see that everybody will have a digital identity to do anything kind of business out there And then we can identify if somebody really be trusted going forward Just a nice idea except in Britain. You don't have a national ID card in America. You don't have one You have data shoots you have all kinds of Nations are really Estonia other countries are now Ramping up that so that's something that everybody's working on. No, no, it's true And then you know someone once said to me, you know if you asked an American if they'd be willing to have a chip Put in their head so the government could follow them around and Actually listen to them all the time. They of course would say no, but of course we all do it voluntarily Yeah, exactly Question about just the complexity of the challenge I think technology has to be a part regulation has to be a part education has to be a part And then we haven't really talked a lot about politics But just maintaining the kind of liberal democratic Fora in which debate can happen back to the rabbi's point and I'm not talking about religion But I'm just talking about the kind of vigorous debate that helps defend the truth So it's going to be a multifaceted solution It's not going to be anyone but the point is again this allocation of responsibility across different stakeholders I also think it's a question of picking our battles We aren't going to be able to get rid of all fake news or indeed all negative consequences of different technologies The question is what really matters and then finally on this question There are ways and to the gentleman's point there are ways to introduce regulation that is manageable for example Advertising there's no reason in my view why these companies should be able to have one standard for advertising online And a far stricter standard for advertising, you know in the paper version of the New York Times With respect to Richard's comment on anonymity It's an important point and we know from other sites like Yik Yak Which was an anonymous social media site that has been taken down that the FBI got involved in from time to time We know that worse things happen on anonymous sites The problem is that the perpetrators on anonymous sites are very hard to find and the resources required to do so are Disproportionate in many cases and the harm is already done and indeed that's a big problem with this point I made earlier about the law lagging behind technology, which is by the time the law gets around to doing anything It's too late and the harm is done And then finally the question on AI I'd be happy to take it offline in more detail You should have a look at it at a network that's forming with companies like Salesforce and Microsoft But the fundamental question for startups is from the very beginning to ask What what is the real good we're doing with this technology and where might there be risk and where there's risk? What might we do to mitigate that risk and and in your case? Look at others look at deep mind look at the other companies that are out there and see what they're thinking is and how They're thinking on these issues Might be relevant to yours, but I'm happy to take it offline And then to food I just wanted to make one comment since we're talking about Fake news and my president keeps attacking my newspaper and others for fake news The one thing you have to understand about President Trump is he actually adores the New York Times He has a very intimate love-hate relationship with the New York Times. He grew up with the New York He was from New York. He grew up in Queens. The New York Times to him was Manhattan It it was the elite it was glamour. He actually wants our love as much as he dislikes us and of course when he calls us fake news clearly what he's trying to do he's using us as as Puppets in his play that he's Creating but he's simply trying to make sure that when we actually do real news which we tend to do That particularly touches him and his administration He can undermine its credibility by calling it all fake now how you control the president of the United States is Beyond me, but I do want to ask you to join me in thanking the panel for what is a great discussion And of which was on time also