 sector innovation, which is what we pretty much do from a public sector and aid program point of view every day. So it's a great opportunity to facilitating hearing from five experts in the field of private sector innovation for development impact. Of course private sector is not the only source of innovation in the development field, but the private sector has so much to bring to the table, including expertise in understanding consumer demands, and market access, sustainable business models, making things work at large scale, alternative approach to financing projects, and incentivising performance as well as their global networks, a knowledge that they can access and we as government need to tap into. What's even better than being able to access their knowledge and is working in partnership. This area of partnership is evolving constantly. For my days in the public private partnerships a decade ago, where we created partnerships for the first economic infrastructure projects, and then social infrastructure like hospitals and prisons, we were driven by the hope that we could shift risks to the private sector and that it was better place to manage those risks, incentivise performance, create efficiency in their designs and maintenance, and create revenue opportunities to reduce their government's required investment. But the days of met we're well beyond infrastructure now, to policy partnerships, social impact partnerships, social impact bonds, and various other forms of partnering to greatly enhance the impact and results we could achieve from, rather than operating as government alone. A further incentive to work more closely with the private sector is the capital they invest in developing countries, around two trillion in private capital flows compared to the aid across different countries that we inject of only 150 billion. It's a significant lost opportunity for us to not harness this financial investment for greater social good. Even remittances dwarf ODA these days. The problem is not much of the two trillion flows to the lowest income countries, and not much is directed directly to poverty reduction. So we have a role in government to catalyse and incentivise investment in lower income countries, but also to find ways to realise much greater poverty reduction, while also enabling profits so we continue to attract investment. Easier said than done, but it is possible in many sectors and markets. And then we can redirect ODA to the poorest and most vulnerable. At the innovation exchange in DFAT, we see great opportunity to work outside traditional partners. We seek new and innovative approaches to solve long held development challenges. Issues like affordable access to clean water, incentive to consume nutritious food, ocean sustainability balanced with the opportunity for economic growth, and access to capital to support local innovators. These and many other issues which support the sustainable development goals are not problems we can solve alone. We need new ideas, new perspectives, new forms of finance, new technology, the application of scientific findings and mass movement of effort to realise social impact together with economic impact. I look forward to hearing the diverse views of all of our speakers today and to hear more about the ways in which government can work with the private sector to advance and enhance our development impact in a sustainable way. Each speaker is going to talk to you for 15 minutes and then there will be an opportunity at the end of each of the four presentations to ask questions. So our speakers today are Professor Rukana Gounder from Massey University, who's going to talk to you about aid effectiveness and the private sector, innovative initiatives for Asia Pacific's entrepreneurial development. Thanks, Professor. Thank you, Lisa. Good morning, everyone. Kia ora. Warm greetings from the Asia Pacific countries as well, given that I'm presenting the views of all most of the entrepreneurs from the Asia Pacific countries. So I look forward to your comments and suggestions as well. Okay. Aid, of course, is one of those foreign capital flows that is most important for many of the developing countries. And we already know that foreign aid has been given since probably more so from the post World War II period. And of course, over the period of time, we have seen the objectives of foreign aid to be more in terms of poverty reduction, rural development, agriculture development. But now, of course, having given all the changes over the period of time, and coming up to even the new millennium, the 21st century, we realized that aid has not yet gone to the level that everybody expected it to have that level of impact. And of course, aid has then, of course, since 2005, after the Doha round, they have talked about the new initiative, something called Aid for Trade. And so donors have actually emphasized the role of private sector as one of the main sectoral focus, but particularly to get to the grassroots level and to address many of those grassroots sectoral, particularly agriculture and manufacturing sectors as well. But we also know that many of the developing countries that do face a number of problems, particularly in terms of capacity building of small and medium-scale industries, access to finance, every time one goes to the bank, so what is the collateral, how much is, you know, you have equity and so on and so forth. So these are some of the issues that actually are some of the critical problems, big challenges, particularly also poor infrastructure, rural areas, particularly rural areas. And also, of course, developing countries also have government policies and bureaucracies and also the changes over the period of time, access to technology and competition and marketing, of course, to capture the market as well. So one of the things in terms of trade-related development priorities is to make developing countries more resilient, responsive to private sector development given the problems in terms of also the climate change as well, tsunamis, floods, droughts, hurricanes, cyclones and so on and so forth. So I'm going to, in this particular paper, look at the excess of efficacy of Australia and New Zealand aid for trade categories in the Asia Pacific. The reason particularly being also that most of the aid from Australia and New Zealand are focused in the Asia Pacific countries. So based on that, this analysis will be based on that. So Doha Round, of course, talked about the changes in meeting the aid for trade activities to improve the business environment. And the key being to support the recipient countries regional and global integration, create economies of scale, address the trade constraints, increase export dimension and also promote growth. And of course, we've talked and heard about so much in TPP now. And that is, of course, out of the door. And what are some of these other initiatives? Now the donors can come in to make sure that there would be some benefits from trade to developing countries. So basically aid for trade is quite an important area in terms of benefits, because all countries, they do benefit rely on commodity sectors as the key economic activity as well. And it does become a very high share of their countries as well. There are various, the trade on aid for trade, but I'm not going to talk about that given the time constraints as well. Now basically to highlight aid for trade, of course, is to assist developing countries in economic infrastructure, productive capacity building and trade policy regulation. These are the three main areas that is also social development as well. But I'm not going to touch on social development here, because these are the three areas of aid for trade for economic infrastructure, productive capacity building and trade policy regulation are directly linked to the private sector development and also for increasing the trade and capturing the market as well. Now we also know and we have heard even yesterday and we have seen the aid motivations in terms of what are the reasons for giving aid. Now giving aid to assist the development in developing countries is also not just in terms of the recipient needs, but also in terms of, we have heard the promoting donors commercial interest, particularly in terms of the business sector as well. I'm not saying it that there is anything wrong, but it seems it is one of those things which are linked from the recipient needs and the donor interest as well. So there's a mutual benefits as well. Now Stiglitz and Carlton they've talked about the right to trade and also the right to development as well. Now, so for right to trade and development, trade does focus is a very key component within the nation's economic growth because it increases the economic activities as well. So we know basically that exports from Asia Pacific countries are basically more agricultural manufacturing and services as well, but you see many of the countries are much more in narrow in terms of primary commodities as well, particularly the not so highly developed part of the developing nations of the Asian countries as well. But Pacific countries of course rely heavily on most of the primary commodities as well. So trade facilitation in developing countries through the donor targeted assistance I think will be very important in terms of removing those kind of trade constraints to promote economic growth. And of course private sector became a very crucial aspect as well. Just wanted to show you this graph here, which basically looks at in terms of, I'm sorry, this is not working. So if you look at the blue bars, the eight for trade infrastructure in the Asia one, the panel part A shows all the level of aid that has been given for aid for trade in the infrastructure sector. And also the other one is the productive capacity building as well. Trade policy regulation is still very low in the overall, but it is increasing in the Asian case as well. But the blue line shows the level of exports from Australia and New Zealand to the Asian countries. And the orange one shows the level of imports from those countries as well. So you can see there's a two way of high level of trade between the donors and the recipient countries in the Asian countries as well. But the second panel part two shows the exports and imports and the panels also in terms of aid for trade infrastructure, in terms of the level that flows to the Pacific Islands as well. Now in here, you see that it's the productive capacity building that receives the higher level of aid for trade that flows to the Pacific, followed by the only after 2008 that you can see high level of aid for trade for infrastructure is also gone as well. And nonetheless, the policy regulations are there, aid that is given for policy regulations, but that is also very low. And again in here, Australia and New Zealand till 2008 head, higher level of imports from the Pacific. But of course, the exports have taken over after that particular period as well. And once again, we can see there has been slight decline after the global financial crisis and global economic crisis as well. Our deposed 2008 period, a slight decline in exports and imports, but nevertheless, that has increased as well. Okay, this is not to frighten you, this was to wake you up a little bit. Given that it's eight o'clock morning, I thought last night I was looking at it and I thought, should I delete it or not? I said, no, this is perfect to wake you up as well. Okay, this is nothing too complicated. It is just measuring. It is, I'm sorry, this keeper is not working. The TTIJ is the level of trade that Australia and New Zealand's export is to all the Asia Pacific countries. And there are 40 Asia Pacific countries, along with the measured over 2002 to 2013 period. It's a very long panel analysis. So, and the methodologies applied sort of accordingly. So the results are not spurious in any way at all. And of course, so what we are saying that the trade that takes place between Australia and New Zealand and the countries in the Asia Pacific countries depends on the gross domestic product of the country. And the total level of GDP of the Asia Pacific countries. And the beta also shows the per capita income of those countries as well, of the donor and the recipient as well, because of course, as we keep hearing that aid actually is the taxpayer's money, so we got to take into consideration some of those things as well. Also, the level of trade will depend on the distance between the countries and also the remoteness of those countries as well. The RAM shows the remoteness between the donor and the recipient because trade is linked to some of these variables, even the language. Language talks about how clear, you know, in terms of the English or the common language, the level of common language. And that is also estimated based on those ratios as well. Now, beta aid coefficient, you can see AIJ, is that level of aid that I'm going to measure, which impacts on the trade as well. Now, what is more important here that AIJ, later on, has been categorized into aid portraying infrastructure, aid portraying products that have been done, and aid portraying policy regulation as well. Now, these are the three components which are being imported in some states, at least I'm not too specific on the delta layer, but I want to tell more, what are the most likely impacts through each of these that makes a difference for the Asia Pacific countries or for the donors as well. So this is the bulk of that. Now, this is that actual results that I wanted to show you. Again, if you look at the first stage, where I look at the total aid in terms of looking at the total aid impact, now you can see that there is a coefficient of 0.27, and it is significant. So it says the amount of aid that actually goes to the countries in Asia Pacific countries does actually increase the exports of the donor countries as well. Now, what is also interesting, the NAD also shows a measure that countries that Australia and New Zealand does try with, but does not give aid, also shows that there is a positive impact of those countries that actually can, in the hope of thinking that if I'm trading with them, maybe we might be able to get more aid in the future as well. So there is a positive relationship as well. I won't talk about the GDP and the rest of that because those are the other variables that should enter. But if you look at the second stage of import procedures, what I did in this particular case is to see, these are the amount of imports that Australia and New Zealand also imports from the Asia Pacific countries as well. And in this particular case, you can see that imports also increase so from those countries because there is an aid trade relationship between that as well and also with the countries, NAD is the countries that do not receive aid, but are also sending some level of exports to Australia and New Zealand as well. Now, if we come to the stage three, the effect of aid for trade infrastructure, AFT with infrastructure, you can see it has got a positive sign. So Australia and New Zealand giving aid for trade in the case of infrastructure has a positive sign but it does not increase the import in that particular. But if you look at aid for trade productive capacity building, the second column which has got a coefficient of 0.28, that is positive and significant. So which also shows that aid for trade increases the productive capacity building, sorry, the trade aid which is linked to the aid for trade productive capacity building but the exports link to the donors as well. So once again, there is a positive relationship there which says that the donors are able to increase their exports through that as well. And aid for trade policy regulation, of course, we know that all the Australia, New Zealand is member of APEC. They are also part of ASEAN. They have a part of PICTA. These are the Pacific Island trade agreements and so on and so forth. But nonetheless, the trade policy regulations of the Pacific Island and the Asian countries will need to be discussed a bit more in terms of see how that can improve because even though the aid that is given through the policy trade policy regulation also benefits the donors as well. Now also you can, now what the key main reason, the point in here are the results in here. So if I have said that yes, it does improve the exports of the donor countries, then the next thing to measure out to understand is if there is a one percent increase in trade, how much would the donors increase their implied return as well? So here comes that every increase in terms of the, sorry, an increase, one percent increase in aid would have a return of 96 cents in the dollar that might be given to the Asia-Pacific countries as well. And certainly you can see in terms of separately for Asia and separately for the Pacific Island. But for the Pacific Island it's only an 8 cent but in the Asia-Pacific it's $1.32. Now so what do we do in terms of addressing the export of the private sector development? So in terms of I think what are the key challenges in terms of private sector development for infrastructure, these are some of the key aspects in terms of transport capacity can be built infrastructure and energy. A lot of this is going, the aid is also going there but I think it could target the small and medium scale industries as well. And another key very important aspect in terms of infrastructure is the quarantine infrastructure and services to remove the export constraints that many of the developing countries in Asia and Pacific countries face as well. Then also if you look at productive capacity building I think agriculture output will be very important because many of the countries are agriculture based economy and also primary products are linked to that as well. So I think that's important, high quality technical training could be given. Manpower training is of course highly important in for many of these countries as well. Now reducing the cost of business, I think the donors could also focus on reducing the cost as well for that as well. And there are so many in there that I've suggested but trade policy regulation absolutely needed in terms of the developing countries as well because they could need to have that capacity to negotiate the trade policies across the table with the developed countries as well. So linking some of these will be really very important for many of these countries as well. So conclusion I think aid for trade is crucial to improve the socioeconomic development as well and the impact is that it does, the aid for trade shows that it increases the exports of the Australia and New Zealand but nonetheless many of the Asian countries also trade out of obligation to maintain goodwill and to secure trade in the future as well. And I think it is a very important capital flow because it goes to the level of the bilateral trade but also it has to reach the grass root level as well. So implied return of course is higher on exports so every additional dollar that both the donors give there is a much higher return. And of course we do know that aid is tired. We try to reduce our tide aid but nevertheless the tide aid, I mean the tide aid is there but even though the tide aid is about 15% to 17% in the case of Australia and about little less for New Zealand, however the level of increase in exports is higher than the level of tide aid. So of course that's the other thing. And so future trade would not have happened of course if trade aid was not forthcoming and we have seen that the countries particularly would do not receive aid but also trade with the donors as well. So I think that is something that donors could think about a little bit to assist some of those countries that do not receive aid as well. So innovative initiatives are absolutely vital particularly to improve the performance of the developing countries. We talk about moving poverty reduction. We talk about smaller medium scale industry. We talk about rural development but we need to focus some of those sort of aspects where the small and medium enterprises could benefit particularly to increase the economic growth and development as well. So with concerted efforts of key partners I think these initiatives can strategically position the small and medium scale enterprises in the region particularly the Asian region which has much more capability as well but Pacific Islands could be brought up that capacity building as well and also to improve their pay capita income sustain any potential drive and private sector led economic growth and of course the other papers will discuss a bit more in terms of the health and other sectors as well but thank you very much. Thank you Professor Massey. We'll have questions at the end of each of the presentations. Now I'd like to welcome Ross Hutton who's a project manager for New Ireland Provincial Malaria Alliance who's got a shared presentation with Ray Hughes-Odgers from the principle of Shared Skype or Priority Limited that they're going to talk to you about innovative malaria projects through public-private partnerships in P&G Islands and the region. Thanks. Right good morning everybody and thank you for the opportunity to give you a bit of an insight into some of our working partner New Guinea regarding public-private partnerships and particularly around malaria. I'm going to be sharing the presentation with my colleague actually Paul Zabrowski who is our chief entomologist for the project and he's going to be discussing some of the more technical components of the, that's nothing, of the malaria project. And I'm going to be talking a bit more about the establishment of the partnerships themselves and the processes that we've gone through to look at these sort of multi-sector partnership approaches. So we can get some of the successes and the process that we've gone. That's it, good thanks. And talking about the New Guinea Islands area in particular. So malaria in the world, we are in sort of a fortunate place and we do have a shrinking malaria map. But malaria continues to be a scourge on human and economic and social development. But we have been making good gains over the last few years and there is an agenda for elimination and we're seeing that the agenda is through to 2040 with the countries participating and targeted for that elimination. Now in our region, you can see that malaria still is mostly impacted in sub-Saharan Africa. But in the Asia Pacific and South and Central America, there's still significant burden of malaria. And despite the gains made in the 40s through the 50s and 60s, through in the evasions to the DDT and new drugs, there has been a lack of progress since the 70s and going into the 90s. Just because of drug failures, resistance, the loss of use of DDT, loss of funding and the impact of declining capacity in managing the programs. So we do know that there is a formula for success in this and it's really around breaking that transmission cycle between parasite transmission through the vector, through the parasites in the human behavior, through environmental control, vector control, making sure the drug supply chain, case management and community health network. So countries that have been able to achieve this have been successful. And the most recently, Sri Lanka has been declared malaria-free in the last couple of years and that list is growing by the year. And the developments over the last 15 years or so have been really helped by the development of artemisenan-based drugs, the process of distributing insecticide-treated bed nets and an increase in funding towards malaria elimination and reduction, particularly through groups such as the Global Fund. But recently alarm bells have started to ring again with resistance developing to the artemisenan drugs and particularly in the greater Mekong sub-region. And there's great concern that this would then spread to Africa and the rest of the world. So we're faced again with a renewed sense of resistance and even insecticide resistance that could threaten the current gains in malaria. So instead of waiting for the next big drugs to come along, the agenda has now shifted to elimination. And as you can see here, Papua New Guinea has some of the biggest burden of malaria in our region. So to focus this effort around elimination, several groups have been established. So we have the Asia Pacific Malaria Elimination Network, Apman, and the Applemo, the Asia Pacific Leaders Malaria Alliance, which are helping to focus technical and political support towards the elimination agenda for 2030 in 2015. They launched the roadmap to elimination that was launched at the Asia Pacific Summit in 2015. And all the Asia Pacific Indian countries have endorsed this roadmap and have signed up to that ambitious agenda for some countries. So as I mentioned in the Asia Pacific region, Papua New Guinea has the largest malaria burden. There's some stats down the side there that we won't read through. But we've seen the burden decrease in last couple of years because of significant input from groups such as Global Fund into the National Malaria Program. But there's a range of opinions that, particularly from experts that suggest that the New Guinea Islands region and Milne Bay should be the target for elimination in Papua New Guinea. And this is because of its particular endemicity malaria. The fact that they are islands and archipelago groups. And so that is the work that the Department of Health and experts have decided should be the main focus. So that brings me to the work that Shed Sky, our consulting group has been involved with, working in partnership with the National Department of Health and provincial governments on developing elimination plans specifically at the provincial level for this. Papua New Guinea has a national malaria control program but it's a nationwide approach. And so it's designed as a one-size-fits-all. And if anyone who knows anything about Papua New Guinea is that there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all for the country. And so what's really needed is a provincial or even district-based malaria control program that will focus on the malaria at that local level. The heterogeneity of malaria in PNG is like no other place on earth. So for example, you can have one village with a certain species and a certain epidemiology. Similarly, if you go five kilometers down the road, it can be totally different. So applying a one-size-fits-all solution is not the most effective use of resources in this environment. And particularly with the squeeze on the resources that are currently available, giving sort of the changing donor and resource environment. So we've been undertaking feasibility studies at this provincial micro level in the New Guinea islands in several provinces and partnership with a whole range of cross-sector partners with the attitude and philosophy of collective impact through unrestricted collaboration. So these projects have been up in Manus through the Manus Provincial Malaria Alliance, the Autonomous Region of Bougainville Malaria Control Project and the New Island Provincial Malaria Alliance. And using this collaboration model with funding and in-kind support from both the private sector and government partners would be developed specific agreements with the provinces directly. And this has resulted as a result of discussions with individuals there so that they can determine what their own needs are at the provincial level for their elimination strategies. So the benefit of this is that we've been able to improve the technical capacity at the provinces which is really lacking in their basic understanding of malaria transmission and elimination strategies at that level. So we're just gonna outline some of the PPPs and just use New Island as an example where we have been working with a whole range of stakeholders there. So including starting off with obviously the provincial government and at the political level but also looking with tourism, agriculture, mining, NGOs and faith-based organisations to develop a localised approach. And it seemed that all of the players were actually addressing malaria in some way in some sort of mitigation activities but there was certainly no collaboration or coordination and certainly no communication between the groups. So we've been able to provide that platform a common approach where these groups can communicate to develop this province-wide approach for elimination. So before engaging with these various sectors it was really important to engage at the political level. And so once the National Department of Health had endorsed the concept we had the Minister of Health, Mr. Malabag approach so Julius Chan who's the Governor of New Island province because in that sort of environment really nothing can happen in that province without getting this political support and endorsement all the way down the line. So we also engage with both members of parliament for the both districts who gave their endorsement and then through the National Department of Health we're introduced to the various players at the provincial administration level and the provincial health level. So that sort of made it a lot easier for engagement at that level with the various levels of government. Now we held the stakeholder workshops with all of the key partners and that resulted with a broad ranging agreement to move forward to establish a provincial malaria alliance with all of the partners. And one of the other processes that was important we had to go through was to get an overarching agreement with the National Department of Health really before going into the province. Now this has taken an awfully long time to go through, it's taken actually came through last week I think because I said that I was coming here to talk about it but it was a 12 month process to develop an eight page document and these are some of the challenges we faced in getting these agreements particularly at that national level of government. But while waiting for that, Sir Julius Chan the Governor was quite keen for us to get on with the process and so we've engaged with all of the partners that we've listed down the right hand side there with those partners comes a wide range of geographical coverage of the province and so they can all bring their various advantages and strengths to bear on the project from a geographical point of view. And the partners have also contributed either financially or in kind to the field work that we have been undertaking. And in particular the in kind support as you own PNG the logistics are very costly component of the project and so it's a very valuable contribution that these various partners are able to bring to enable full coverage across the province. But the process hasn't been without its challenges and just to sort of highlight a couple. The fact that we do have such a wide range of partners that's been and they've been contributing financially in kind but that has been fragmented and so trying to coordinate the support and the funding flow through that process that has been the disruptions. And particularly with the at the district level and initially in the project beginning the district's funding had been assured to come through from the project but as you might be aware with PNG's economic challenges that there has been no flow of funds to the districts in many of the areas and so that has been, although there's been support and political support for it but the funds just haven't been flowing down from the national level. There's also been established the new health management model the provincial health authorities and that came about when we were doing the work in Manus and in New Island that both have now shifted from provincial administration to these new statutory bodies, the provincial health authorities. So a whole shift in management and roles and responsibilities so that's created some confusion in the provinces about who is actually managing what. We also had in New Island a declaration of autonomy from Governor Sir Julius Chan in September last year which while that might have brought about some concern in Port Moresby but it certainly has resulted in quite a shake up in New Island and a whole range of new CEOs for all the divisions of the province and so there's a whole new budget manager to come in while we're being halfway through this project and of course as I mentioned the sort of the agreements at the national level as well. So just a bit of, that's a bit about the process of getting some of these agreements in place. I'll just hand over to my colleague Paul who's literally just come back from the wilds of Borneo jungle hunting down interesting insects but he's just gonna give a bit of a overview on the technical component of how we've been developing these plans for a malaria elimination in the provinces in New Island and Burgundville for example. Morning everyone. When I started on this project as the entomologist I thought I'd just be basically going to a few swamps and bothering mosquitoes but little did I know that I've been involved in gathering every level of data possible. Mainly because in PNG data is the hardest resource to come by. It is published very late, it is published on a very small scale and it is not often reliable. So we find ourselves basically wanting to, first of all, we needed to know before you can start any project like this you have to know what the current standards are, what the baseline is. Are there health facilities in areas where we're working? How are they working? Why are they not working? Is what sort of drug and diagnostic supply chain there is available and are people getting the drugs that they need and how and why? What sort of clinical case management is happening? What standard of that is happening? What back to control may or may not be happening? And the other thing that we've been discovering to, that's probably the most useful thing of all is is there or is there not a healthy village concept happening in the province? This is something that is a subject in itself that needs another talk but basically what it means is that volunteers in villages, organized the villages to improve the standards of hygiene and health in the area as well as the self-esteem and just general improvement in the improving quality of life. In Bougainville, 90% of all villages now have volunteers doing this and it's made an amazing improvement to the standard of living. Now what I want to do is to make the data more useful, I've wanted dividing it into even smaller chunks into smaller bite-sized chunks. So I've worked now in the three provinces and what I've been doing is creating smaller zones within the provinces which are malaria control planning zones. The idea being that again the one size fits all isn't just a case of you can't do it for the whole country. Even within a province, you have to look at all the possible variables from where the mosquitoes are to what people are doing and how and what infrastructure exists. And if you then further divided according to that like this particular example here which is a tiny bit of a very large table that's taken me two years to develop, this particular one here shows that I've divided minus into seven provinces and then I have 40 criteria that I fill in as I get the data. All of this is done by legwork. We actually go to all the places ourselves, talk to the local health people, talk to all the local people, you know, go into swamps, all this is first-hand data gathering so that we know that it makes sense. So this is the result of what happened after about three years of work in Manus. I've divided it into seven zones and these are management zones. These are the zones where I say for instance the zone forward need a different approach to controlling malaria to say zone two. And it's based on all those criteria. And the most important criteria that happens only after a lot of work and a lot of fieldwork is the yellow blobs on the map then. The yellow blobs are actually the hotspots. That's why I found out first-hand that these are the places that have the most malaria. I've already found out good reasons as to why they have the most malaria and therefore the management plans for those zones would be based by hitting those yellow spots first. Now we've done the same thing for Bougainville and the same thing now for New Island. But Bougainville is interesting because right now Bougainville is one of five provinces where a scheme called the E National Health Information System is being rolled out. And this is a very sophisticated system that works on real-time data being sent to a central database by tablets and telephones. And believe it or not, even in the middle of nowhere in New Guinea you can get reception. It's the one thing that does work in P&G, in most of P&G, even if you have to climb a hill to do it is that you will be able to send this data to where it needs to go. Now so what they're doing now is that every case as a person comes in with malaria they record all the facts and send it off daily. But what's more amazing about this system is that the system is based on a digitized map which has every single house in that province actually mapped. And so the patient comes in, they know which house they're in. The map, by the next day the map shows that house has malaria. So if you start then interrogating the database. For instance, this is a simple example, go back, sorry, a simple example where we asked it for three weeks' worth of recent prociparum malaria data for bone and bone. It said yes, there's a hotspot up there which is Bucca. If we go to the next one now. Now there's Bucca Town, it shows that this is where the hotspot is, but what it's showing first of all is that this is where the malaria was reported. Now what's even more amazing about this is that we ask people the question where were you two weeks before? And therefore we find out where they caught the malaria which is far more important of course where they went for treatment. So the next slide shows that all these cases came from these particular places. So these are the villages in which they actually caught the malaria. Therefore we know that this is where right now there are mosquitoes transmitting malaria. If we go to the next one, so these are now the hotspots. It's not really Bucca Hospital of course, but these places. We can then zoom in to look at it from a satellite view. Every one of those small red dots is a separate house and the green dots are non-houses like say church or something like that. And then you keep zooming in and then we find out and in the next one you find out that that is the house where the malaria case is. So this is quite amazing data. And I was going to show you a bit more, but really this is, it's given us an overview of where we're at with the kind of data that we're gathering. Thank you for that. It's really interesting and amazing how we can drill down now into the house that it comes from. Now I'd like to introduce Julia Willets who's the research director Institute for Sustainable Futures at the University of Technology Sydney who's going to present to you on private sector roles in service delivery, the complex political economy of local government roles in market facilitation and regulation. So good morning, ladies and gentlemen and thank you for getting up early to be here this morning. And thank you to Development Policy Centre and ANU for hosting this conference and the chance to share with you some insight into I think something that builds off the keynote we heard yesterday which was about state capability and I need to understand and better grasp how to improve that state capability. And I think it's particularly important when we're thinking about private sector innovation and when we're looking for the kinds of outcomes that the aid program is looking for if we adjust focus only on the innovation and the private sector and not the context within which it sits we're not going to reach the outcomes that we're hoping for. So this research was designed as a research partnership. It was involved partnership with a set of civil society organizations who were trying to facilitate the role of small scale private sector in the water and sanitation sector and also engaged with governments in the countries in which we worked. So in short, the key messages from this presentation that in service sectors such as water and sanitation it is an area where private sector can and will and should play roles but we do have quite low profit margins it's not going to be a place where you're going to make a lot of money and hence there's a really important role for governments and particularly at the local level to facilitate that private sector role. However, there are many constraints to the ways in which the local government can and are able to play that role and I'll explain those in a bit more detail. And in addition, you have a situation where they're facilitating the involvement of private sector but at the same time they need to be providing regulatory functions and this can create a very complex mix of incentives that work in different directions that we need to be aware of. And where that leads us is that if we really want to look at the contribution that private sector can make we need to at least in the water and sanitation sector and I think it is more applicable more broadly we need to think about what those constraints are at local level to supporting private sector and we need to be a bit wise to these different kinds of incentives and risks and perverse incentives that actually might not lead us to the outcomes that we intended from the engagement. So small scale private sector in water and sanitation delivery I guess what we're seeing in particularly in Asia probably less so in the Pacific but is that there is increasingly roles of private sector and what we've seen is that say in water management we've had a real reliance on voluntary management roles and a recognition that that doesn't work people need to be paid for their time people need to there need to be incentives to keep water systems functioning and we need to professionalize and that's leading us into the space of private sector we're also realizing that supply chains are critical someone in a remote area how are they going to get the concrete or a toilet pan or the things that they need to build a toilet so we need supply chains so the role of private sector is critical in reaching outcomes and what we found however from the beginning of our research which was a systematic review was that the role of private sector so far was very mixed in terms of effectiveness there was almost no evidence of how it was facilitating reaching more poor and remote areas and there were a lot of unquestioned assumptions about how you support private sector and in general people were just assuming you just need to train and focus only on the private sector themselves and not an awareness that you actually need to focus on the enabling environment within which they function and so that was really the research graph that we were looking to address and the question we were asking is what are these dynamics that shaped the role of private sector in how it can play a role towards water and sanitation services so the methodology involved research in three countries the systematic review I mentioned and then three political economy analyses we were really looking at all the different stakeholders from national level right down to local level including the enterprises themselves and trying to understand what are the dynamics that shaped their role so this presentation I'm just gonna take one cut through all of that the broader study to just focus on local government role because I think for us the realization was without that role we weren't gonna have either in some places we weren't gonna have any private sector roles or we may have them but we're not gonna reach the outcomes we're looking for so I tracked down just to let you know what kind of enterprises are we talking about we're talking very, very small scale micro scale so one to 10 employees a mixture of actually private and social enterprise not all of them were for profit majority were male dominated in terms of people who were capitalizing on this opportunity to develop businesses and they were working at a scale that we can that's worth thinking about of serving hundreds of households with water supply or supply chains that would reach thousands of households so the tensions that we found in when you come to both talk to local government and when you hear other people's views about local government so they're role in supporting the private sector in many places they say for sanitation you couldn't assume that people will want to buy toilets you actually need a whole heap of behavior change programs to develop consumer demand so that was one role in some places they were doing market analysis to try and then present that to possible entrepreneurs and create interest in other places training entrepreneurs in other places trying to link demand from consumers with supply but in terms of regulation you know we need to think about well what's being sold here what's the standard of service that a consumer can expect and who actually is benefiting who's gaining these services and who's missing out and where that leads us is this complex set of dynamics and the potential for perverse outcomes rather than the ones that we're looking for so I'll now go into some of the detail of those complex dynamics so we found a lot of constraints to the role of local government in facilitating markets so to begin with the budget allocations for water sanitation were affected by low constituent demand for these services and then we have a quote here from an entrepreneur who says you know unless the district government is paying attention to this it's really hard for us in the private sector to actually succeed we need to all be working together on this issue equally in both Vietnam and Indonesia sometimes at local government level there was money for water and sanitation but there were rules around what that couldn't be spent on and it was fine for you to spend your money on behaviour change and raising consumer demand but if it was to do anything that was about directly supporting the private sector that was considered inappropriate and hence not able to be carried out some other constraints were that often and here we're talking about line industries like health or public works who are the ones who are usually involved in water and sanitation if you ask them about the role of private sector they'd say things like this isn't our domain the enterprises they should just survive and then if you ask them how to help then they say they don't know how so there was a lot of confusion over what does it mean to try and support private sector and so then you think okay there are line agencies their business is to look after maybe more on the regulatory side, the standard maybe what about the role of line agencies whose mandate is to support private sector and so we looked more at the private sector support agencies we interviewed them we asked other actors about them and what we found was they had no interest whatsoever to support private sector in the water and sanitation sector they were interested in snack foods in agriculture in you know those sectors that are important for economic development and so where that leads us then is that the technical line agency didn't have the skills or didn't know how and the private sector agencies were invested in a different set of activities and also weren't looking to support private sector and finally there was also a lot of mistrust and I think that's an important thing to think about in all three countries we found evidence of saying you know do we really want private sector involved in this space aren't they just going to be looking for profit we actually are trying to provide a social service here is it a good idea to even get them involved and lastly a lot of local government officials were just simply really confused there seemed to be too many different kinds of demands on what they could or should do and that kind of led to a kind of paralysis of not doing anything so moving on we did find incentives that were visible that supported local governments playing roles coverage targets so whenever a local government official was being held accountable for increases in access to water sanitation in their district then they would some of them would really start to innovate and to think okay how am I actually going to make this happen how am I going to look good if you like by increasing coverage in my area and some therefore had started collaborating and supporting private sector roles in both Indonesia and Vietnam there were also I guess ways that the government was trying to set up competition between districts and so in Vietnam special awards for those areas where coverage had increased and again that would incentivize local government to engage more with the private sector and lastly in some cases there were financial census play at play that were facilitating local government roles but as you can imagine that also leads you to potential conflicts of interest and so in one region of Indonesia there was a development partner who was their initiative was about trying to increase the number of sanitation entrepreneurs and people selling toilets and they targeted both local government and others to play those roles so you ended up with government officials also on the side having their own sanitation business and you've got a real conflict of interest there and some people thought that was fine like whatever way we get to the outcome that's fine and others were like that's completely compromising everything and we need to stop it and these local government officials shouldn't be benefiting financially on the side by playing these roles so moving on to the regulatory functions I guess what we found is that they are very nascent or absent in most places there aren't even necessarily quality standards that have been put in place or that exist whether that be for water quality and reliability of water supply or whether that be for the quality of construction or of materials being sold and we also saw evidence of patronage relationships like a transparency about who would get chosen to be the private sector person who was running a water supply which is a monopoly and I guess questions about the informal relationships that were driving who was playing roles in terms of private sector and then lastly in terms of the quality this is from a different part of our study and this I guess was looking at well if we're thinking about private sector we need to understand how are they going to work in places where we have the poorer people that we intend on reaching through an aid program and what we found was in terms of sanitation areas of highest poverty were also where you ended up with the highest prices and there then becomes definitely a role for local government to think about differentiated support because we can't just expect there's no incentive for a private sector to serve those places the demand and the people are not going to have the ability to pay and there's going to be a little or no profit margin for the private sector so that was sanitation and then for water in Vietnam we mapped to try and understand were the poor and the non-poor getting equal or different access to water from private enterprises we found in general the non-poor were much more likely to be served by the poor and this graph on the left shows a big chunk of fee which is required when you join a water service a connection fee was the biggest barrier so again if we don't have local governments intervening in this dynamic we're going to maybe yes we've got private sector involved and we're serving some consumers but they're going to be a lot to miss out so in conclusion I think our work really demonstrates that private sector at small scale has a role to play in service delivery but that the role of local government is critical and that these complex dynamics that I've just given a set of examples of we've been to better understand them and get beyond the quite simplistic approaches to supporting private sector and some of the I guess flow on effects of our research in the countries where we've been working have been that the Ministry of Health in Indonesia has been rethinking the way it's trying to support sanitation entrepreneurs and whether or not to collaborate better with the private sector development agencies in Vietnam we're doing follow on work to better understand what are the costs of providing services and how much should a government subsidy be you don't want it to be too much because then you're wasting precious resources but if it's too little then the private sector won't get involved and some other flow on work in Cambodia which is looking at roles of association that might be able to play some of these roles and perhaps simplify the local government role to be more on the regulatory side and instead have sitting outside of government the market facilitation roles so in conclude at my moment I guess my my key point if you step right back from this research and in the context of this conference is that it's it's great and it's important for us to focus on private innovation but we should not do that without the governance context within it which it sits and I think we need to perhaps pay more attention to that thank you thanks Juliet okay our final speaker for this morning is Stephanie Copes Campbell who's the executive director of oil search foundation board in Papua New Guinea and she's going to talk to about the hella provincial health authority a public private partnership model thanks Deb good morning everyone could also recognize my colleague Kimberly Capoury who's the CEO of our oil search foundation and it's a pleasure to be here I'm going to take a more case study bent today and tell you about this concept we've all been reading a lot about shared value and how I think we've demonstrated that through our work in hella provincial hospitals so shared value is this idea that the private sector generates an economic value at the same time producing a social value for society in a manner that addresses its challenges oil search is the largest company in Papua New Guinea largest workforce largest taxpayer it's listed on both the Port Maltsby Stock Exchange and the Australian Stock Exchange and it operates largely in the Highlands area running from hella all the way down to golf it is a company that is incredibly dependent on the goodwill of the community and so for it to operate its oil and gas fields the community needs to be happy and the community needs to be engaged and so that's where this shared value proposition comes in that I'm going to speak about you can see up at the top there that we're significantly involved in hella where the largest oil and gas field lies and hella is a new province in Papua New Guinea and it's one that faces many many challenges all the things that go with being a new province but it's also a province that faces a great deal of tribal conflict and violence and it's a community depending on again we heard earlier that data is not great in Papua New Guinea and that goes for populations since this as well so it's a population of somewhere between 300 and 400,000 people maybe plus probably not minus and that community is very dependent on the hospital that's in Tairi where a large number of the only health services in many cases are provided and indeed a lot of the surgical services so Tairi particularly hospital particularly about a year ago was facing some incredible challenges one challenge was actually a good challenge in that the government had decided to take Tairi District Hospital in recognition of the new province and create a provincial hospital and what that meant was that the hospital was going to get a heck of a lot more staff going from probably about 40 to 200 and with that a lot of money in the budget eventually increased from 600,000 quina a year to 14.2 million quina a year so that was good news but the bad news was at that time and this was about 18 months ago the hospital itself had no board no executive team no HR system no finance system no finance staff it essentially had one CEO who wasn't even appointed a CEO he was acting and a handful of staff and it had MSF medicines on frontier which had been there for eight years and was running essentially the only surgical and really the only operational aspect of the hospital and providing the only doctors that the hospital had in an environment where every time they advertise for doctors and other health professionals to come they wouldn't get one single application because this was a really remote difficult place to work so you had MSF there delivering a fine service but really not much else in terms of a functioning hospital MSF was delivering the surgical service it was also delivering the functioning pharmacy it was providing water supply it was running a family support center that was seeing 90 to 100 cases new cases every single month so very important service for women and children so the good news was we're getting a provincial hospital the bad news was it was a pretty challenging environment and then the worst news came when MSF said we've been wanting to get out of here for years here's our reason you're going to get all this money the systems and we're going to give you eight months and we are going to now pull out and leave and hand over to you so that at that stage was looking pretty grim and Peter Botten being a pretty smart guy decided to invite my boss Peter Botten who's the managing director of oil search to Hella and in doing so he went out to the Hula community of whom oil search is very dependent on and said I'm appointing Peter Botten as the chair of the provincial hospital board that we're about to create and he's going to fix all the health problems in Hella so I was in I was in Gulf Province at the time and I get this phone call and it's Peter and he says Steph where are you? said I'm in Kikori how quickly can you get to Malzbiya has something I need to talk to you about I thought oh no I'm in trouble so well I need to find a chopper and a boat or something but I'll be there in about a day or so so I'll get back to Malzbiya and I'll walk in and Peter says Prime Minister has told all the Hulis I'm going to fix this problem I just have a few words to say to you failure is not an option so we were looking at a pretty big challenge and for what the hospital looked at the time that we were going in there's not much there so what we first did was establish the board because the board didn't exist that board came together and agreed to a few really key principles the first principle was whatever we did we worked through P&G government systems working outside the system was one that MSF was facing they worked outside the system they delivered effective service but when they left everything and I mean everything was going to collapse so number one didn't matter how hard it was we were going to work through P&G government systems principle number two that the board agreed to was you have to work in partnership because we can't like depending on MSF depend on any one partner and even the oil search is a good partner and there's a shared value proposition there you can't depend on one you need a range of partners to do this so with those two key principles the board came together they developed an emergency plan they asked the oil search foundation and which Kimberlin are involved and which oil search is is a pretty big supporter of them in fact 56.2 million U.S. over five years dollar supporter they asked us to come and help also to agree to about three to four million dollars up front to kick this off the first thing that they did was say we got to get doctors because in about three months we're not going to have a single doctor they went to volunteer services overseas VSO and found a number of volunteer doctors to come in and replace the MSF team they worked very closely and this is important with both the department of health and the department of personal management to get 180 plus people hired and on the payroll in a record period of time and by bringing both secretaries in which told both of the departments this is the most important thing that you are doing come in and help get this underway we're working in a conflict prone environment this has to happen we were able to do that in a short period of time we came in through oil search and the foundation and brought in technical assistance helped to build the capacity of those new people on the ground helped to get the pharmacy and medical supplies up and running we opened a TB ward because we were starting to see multi-drug resistant cases of tuberculosis pop up in Hela like elsewhere in PNG the hospital to make things worse the drought there was absolutely no running water when we started they'd run out of water and we worked with Exxon and WHO to come in and get the water up and running in a permanent water supply and importantly we took over from MSF the funding of the salaries for the family support centres so they could continue that incredibly important service of providing services to survivors of family and sexual violence and importantly as part of these principles as we moved into a new phase which I won't talk about but Hela was recently launched as a provincial health authority we were able to get those salaries on to the government payroll so they're now picked up on the government payroll and as of this week the board has just advertised for local citizen doctors to come work in Papua New Guinea they've been able to secure a brilliant Papua New Guinea in Omsia to come and work there and the energy that has been created through a number of partners working together has created this kind of external energy where people are now looking at Hela as a really key and critical place to work and so the board's just advertised for more senior executives and local doctors to come and come and work in a vibrant environment where you're going to make a huge difference where you're going to get career development opportunity like you've never had before and the board's just also improved an incentive package to attract people and so far even with this ad just being in for a few days we've already had some really impressive interest from doctors who for the first time are wanting to come work in Hela so what we are looking to do is now create a sustainable environment where the hospital and the government and the provincial government and other partners can sustain this over time so the hospital went from last year on the verge of collapse with MSF the only services provided to being one that's now seeing across the entire hospital thousands of admissions outpatient presentations surgeries baby's born you know 72 women came for caesarean sections and without that service as many of you know they would not have survived and the Family Support Centre which I think is probably one of the better ones in Papua New Guinea now and I'm involved in quite a few through another hat that I wear on the board of Family P&G and I think that is becoming increasingly a model of how you provide services in a pretty tricky environment that's a good picture of what the hospital is looking like now compared to the picture I showed you a while back so in conclusion I just want to say you know this is a story of public-private partnership it's one that's built on the shared value proposition and I think in dealing with the private sector that's super super important because the private sector does turn a profit it is responsible for shareholders and there has to be a good reason of why you come in and spend you know millions of dollars on a community program but what the private sector can bring in this model is obviously capital so four million dollars in this case U.S. into the hospital it can bring leverage so we were able to particularly through Peter Botten going directly and working with the prime minister to secretaries to all the other key partners like Exxon, Curtin Brothers, you know WHR we're able to leverage a lot of additional funding from others and we're able to kind of work with the government to say hey you know we're doing this what are you doing where are you working in partnership to make sure this is a successful model and then doing that in a time where the health budget was pretty constrained and money was going you know many places some of which weren't health we got the entire budget that was due from the government in 2006 flowed on to the hospital for services so we were able to not only use donor funding but to match that and and I think also what the private sector brought in under the leadership of Peter Botten was starting and ending with absolutely absolutely strong governance so fixing up the financial systems making sure that every toy that did come in was directed quite you know effectively at what the most urgent priorities were so that whole system of governance of how a board should operate of how an executive team should operate was a very important contribution that was made and then in addition to that just you know the expertise on how to get things done in a pretty short period of time so to me and I've worked in Papua New Guinea for the last 17 years and have worked in development from us to my career this is a success story it's one that shows how you can and bring together you know partners from from all over the place to create what seemed to be pretty impossible in a short period of time so I just want to end with a quote from Peter Botten that was in Boss Magazine financial review a while back and the reporter had asked him whether it was really the role of a listed oil and gas company with its eye on shareholder returns to intervene in the way in which oil search did and Peter responded when you turn around and say the biggest gas field for the PNG LNG project is in Hella and then on the 1st of April 2016 there's going to be no working provincial hospital for 400,000 people are you going to stand back and say it's the government's responsibility I don't think so you're going to say what can we do to help thanks Steph we'll open it now to questions is there any questions for members of the panel it was probably remiss of me not to mention DFAT being an absolute key partner so I think what DFAT from my perspective brought first was additional capital so through the instinctive fund program we attracted 10 million Kena to build nursing accommodations so we can provide safe accommodation for nurses and attracting nurses they brought expertise so we've tapped in like you wouldn't believe to the knowledge of provincial government financial systems and how that works and we've spent kind of countless lunches and dinners with their health team talking through how do we make this work we've brought them together with other key government players to talk that through so the technical expertise was absolutely essential and in addition to that they've been a partner in terms of not providing funding through us but just through that capacity building with some of their other programs with the management team that we're bringing forward so the Australian government particularly in Papua New Guinea is an absolutely essential player on so many different fronts and there's really no way we'd be where we are without them but in terms of working with them I think it is looking for that expertise and what they bring of having absolute amazing knowledge of how development works in the country as well as just providing some funding Just from the experience that we've had in the New Guinea Islands region I think one of the challenges is that the scale from an economic development point of view is not there so if you look at Bougainville there is no major economic activity and one of the challenges that we've found in fact is engaging in the local community Bougainville is very fortunate that they've got the Bougainville Healthy Community Program which has something like two and a half thousand volunteers and it's an amazing program Manus is an unbelievably challenging environment because there is apart from employment at Lombrom at the detention center there is no economic activity on Manus So I think the challenge we have in fact we've got meetings with DFAT today and tomorrow is that the PPP model in those environments where you don't have a major economic activity is a real challenge and what Ross highlighted in the presentation in New Island province we've actually got a number of economic operators and again they're very diverse and I think the strength of the PPP process is that in fact in the New Island it's a mixture of NGOs faith organizations the government and economic operators I'm not sure that the rule book actually has been written and I think one of our challenges that we want to talk to DFAT about is how can we actually understand the rule book because I think in these environments where you have low economic activity there's no obvious immediate entry point and I must admit I'm impressed with Stephanie's presentation this morning about that engagement process for us we still don't really understand that engagement process in low economic activity areas I approve both of you from DFAT I'm sorry I can't answer those questions right now but I'm sure we'll be discussing them later and Stephanie my question is for you it's just having worked on DFAT programmed in P&G you know I think one of the more challenging things is in fact working through government systems and particularly getting new employees on government payrolls so I'm just curious how long have those new staff been on the payroll and has their pay been arriving regularly are they all happy with the transition did they sorry did they also get paid at the same rate I'm just I know those are micro questions but they're kind of crucial for many programs thank you working through P&G government systems it's the right thing to do and down the track it's the only thing to do but it's the most frustrating thing to do so getting staff on payroll was one of our biggest challenges and we and and you know I I take my hat off to poppin and guinea and in particular the health workers who will go for so long without getting a toy at like they work and they work and the pay hasn't come and the pay hasn't they've been in the payroll for four months and they still haven't been paid and and you know that I just can't believe it because you know I want to put up with that and hello though with that kind of trouble fighting and about but there's just a different culture to that and so if you're going to get any on the payroll get the hoolie on the payroll because otherwise you're going to have problems so we we did prioritize this and to get it done frankly and and we did get it done so all of our staff from the payroll we got them on within three months and that I can tell you more than anything else was a miracle but what we did was started with John Cully the secretary of DPM and Pesco Casa who's also on our board we have the secretary of health on our board we started from the very beginning and had a partnership with him and said secretary this just has to happen and this is why if you need help you know we'll come and and help you however we can we can bring in some additional assistance we had by then an HR manager who came and worked with them if you just want us to come make you coffees we'll come make you coffees I mean whatever you know I'll come with I can't come with pay but I can come with boxes of chocolate but um but whatever it takes to get it done even that you know we had a month on it still wasn't there um it was still you know and we're still having issues with the announces so what I essentially did was every single day for three months someone showed up in the office can I help you oh here's a coffee can we sit down do you do you just need some vision up thank you thank you oh you're just I can't believe how quickly this is happening thank you so much every single day for three months it was either myself one of our staff from the foundation one of the staff from hello would fly down but we had kind of rosters who's going to be in Wallsby walking the halls at DPM we did that every day and we got it done but that's the only way to do it you just have to and what we did you know they they usually go one two three at a time we had 180 it was just extraordinary and we're now in the process of doing the same thing of getting all their allowances sorted but the lesson that we learned was you know start at the top go early and be very very consistent and it can happen so that's a good question yeah and all that well the pay scales are fine we've had some problems with getting allowances and back pay and we're fixing that up now but by and large they've been paid what they should be paid sorry well because we've hired in different phases but from the first lot that came in which was you know about 80 or 90 we got them on within three months and they're on there the second lot which was hired in November we're going through that process now and finalizing it so it's taken us about an average of three months and they're not getting paid for that three months but you know they seem to kind of accept that I'd like to then thank all of our speakers this morning and thank you all for coming along I think there's some really really important messages that come out of the presentations this morning about the role of government and the role of the private sector they can't operate obviously individually in these environments we really want to get stuff done I think both from Stephson and the malaria presentation we saw that their the private sector has capability that we as government don't have but we as government need to play a role to build that regulatory capacity to build the aid to build trade capability and as we saw in Steph's hospital example the private sector can do things at a pace which government can't on its own they can harness networks that we as government sometimes can't influence on our own and it's the quality and the performance standards and the governance that comes around that that we as government want to support but we are not necessarily as good as doing at that private sector so the more that we can bring those capabilities and those incentives and objectives together the better outcomes that we'll get I'd love to see models like this replicated elsewhere not only in P&G but elsewhere in the Pacific and Asia as well because many people are dealing with hospitals like the first picture that Steph showed us and obviously it's a commitment from multiple, multiple parties including the national and local governments to make things like this happen so the more that we can all bring together the better so thanks again to our presenters Pip's been a great help Congratulations being here to give now with my gift Will that be a gift for me or something? Yeah we're planning to put them on my own I've got to put them on my own Oh okay Alright Steph Can I add to your screen there? It's not working for me I guess maybe, yeah I'll just switch it off before we start See you Okay I won Um I think she Do I want to test it? Do I want to test it? Is this the right spot? Is that close enough? Do I vote? You know Ha ha ha ha That's it That's actually pretty good I think If that's what you want to know then you'll know that's what she would like to know at least And then you'll see the greener cabinet So Ladies and gentlemen please take a seat Ladies and gentlemen please take a seat Okay ladies and gentlemen we're going to get started Good morning ladies and gentlemen Welcome to the first ever three minute aid pitch at the Australasian Aid Conference My name is Joel Negan I am your host for this morning's event I'm an academic at the University of Simeon Co-convenor of the Conference with Stephen and Anthony and Camilla And in the spirit of a three minute aid pitch I'm going to try and keep this introduction as short as I can We're going to do something a bit new and a bit different this morning It's a trial run so to speak the first time we are trying this type of event Over the four years of the conference there's been lots of talk about the challenges of international development the challenges of aid But what about solutions? You can't just come to these conferences and say this is wrong and this is wrong and this is a problem and DFAT does this and the World Bank does that We need solutions as well So we really do need to think through how Australia might enhance its development impact And so we have asked people to come up with solutions DFAT has its innovation exchange The Australasian Aid Conference has the three minute aid pitch The innovation exchange has beanbags We do not But we have people who can synthesize ideas in three minutes So this three minute aid pitch will be showcasing research and thinking of people in the development policy center here at ANU and others The pitches have been selected based on originality, clarity and relevance to our region The names of the presenters are in the order that they'll be presenting or in the back of your little piece of paper which you should have received in coming in I'm not going to read them all out in the interest of time They will come up and speak Each speaker gets exactly three minutes At three minutes I will stand up and I will be really annoying and I will force them off the stage through the trap door to my right Now I'm normally when I lecture my students stare into their phone and tablet and computer because I'm such an engaging speaker But in this situation we are encouraging you to stare into your phone laptop or tablet The voting is on a phone tablet or laptop So the instructions are here Hopefully you've all received one So over the course and the voting is open now Please hopefully don't vote before you've heard any of this I suppose you might early voting Please do vote for your preferred pitch for the most promising idea the one you think has most residents So please kind of sign into that Okay So after everyone gives their talk we'll have a few moments for some questions and comments from the audience Questions and comments from the audience can only be 30 seconds Do not have a question that is longer than the speech you're referring to We will start now Our first is Chris Austin-Dorff Welcome All right Nothing like going first, right Does this on Can everybody hear me Okay, I need to start off by apologizing I'm battling a bit of a cold but I'm going to try to go three minutes without coffee So wish me luck So, right So I'm going to set the scene We're in the middle of these SDGs, 17 huge goals everything from ending poverty to climate change Everybody wants to know how are these things getting refunded in a way that's sustainable and effective Let me take a step back and tell you a little bit about the Fred Hollis Foundation We're a bunch of eye doctors that go out and repair people's visions You might not know that over 30 million people globally are blind 80% of those is avoidable and 90% live in developing countries So it is a development problem and it is fixable The second thing I want you to know is cataract which is a grain of your eye lens is the leading cause of avoidable blindness globally and it's fixed with a really simple surgery In fact, it's 20 minutes The patient lays down on the table 20 minutes later gets an eye patch Walk goes home One day later eye patch comes off She can see Incredible We know it works We know it's effective It delivers social and economic returns What we want to do is get more operations to more people How are we going to do it? Do you think it's going to be the public sector? Doubtful Certainly not alone The purses are too small The demands are too high What about the private sector? Here's something we can talk about Right? So for us this is private sector eye clinics So what I want to talk to you today is more specifically social enterprise eye clinics All right What are they? They produce high quality high volume low cost services and they run on a cross subsidy model But that means those who can afford to pay for the services subsidize those who cannot Pretty simple and it's not new There's over 300 of these worldwide that are operating and the margins that they're operating are reached 10 and 35 percent If those business people in the community or in the audience are going wow pretty good Importantly 35 to 80 percent of the patients receive those services for free below cost or at cost Sounds pretty sensible right? What's the barrier? Capital It's all about the money honey So startup capital is really hard for these people to get Enter social impact investments What are they? They're an investment option that blends social return with financial return In other words investors give a little in financial returns in order to have a social return Did you know that since 2007 impact investing market has grown to over 100 billion with a B and is scheduled to go in the next few years to 500 billion to 1.3 trillion Huge What can they do? They can boost investments in their own social enterprises They can kick start pilot programs They can build common standards and investment framework that are people are going to use and they can help identify good opportunities So to summarize social impact investing innovative finance solutions to help solve some of today's social problems How'd I do? Perfect Do I get points for that? My pitch is about establishing a technical cooperation organization in Australia informed by but not the same as the German aid delivery model In the interest of disclosure I've worked in government and now work for managing contractor but this aid pitch is mine I'm not speaking on behalf of my employer A few short years ago aid was integrated into DFAT The rationale was to more closely align the aid and diplomatic arms of Australia's international policy agenda As well as aid policy a raft of new work in the form of programming designing, contracting, monitoring evaluating and program administration has been introduced into DFAT So let's have a quick look at Germany where the ministry, BMZ sets policies, strategy and budgets and where the technical cooperation agency GIZ delivers the program So this slide shows BMZ with 1,000 employees and GIZ with 17,000 employees and where GIZ is synonymous with German aid capability BMZ commissions GIZ to administer and deliver programs There's a supervisory board for GIZ comprising 10 government reps and 10 employee reps So the next slide So this is DFAT with 9,000 employees including locally engaged staff with about 3,000 in Australia and the rest overseas As well as diplomacy foreign policy advice negotiating international agreements trade talks, consular assistance and running the passports office DFAT also delivers a big and complex aid program working with multiple implementing partners under numerous types of contracts and agreements So I want to draw your attention to three points One are the transaction costs the many to many relationships give rise to duplication and inefficiency Expertise Development Expertise Expertise is spread throughout many organizations and within DFAT Development Expertise competes with demands for other skills Third, Australian identity Multiple organizations are branded differently leading to the Australian government identity being inconsistent at best and invisible at worst So a solution to reducing transaction costs harnessing aid and development expertise and lifting our profile might be to set up a separate entity for technical cooperation So DFAT could increase its focus on policy strategy and budget and then commission something like an AusTech to deliver the aid program options could include establishing a government enterprise similar to GIZ Other options could include establishing a smaller intermediary organization to reduce those transaction points or a consortium of commercial providers could be engaged to form an entity known as AusTech or similar with an appropriate governance structure Some questions are how do we ensure cooperation and not competition What's in it for commercial providers What's in it for government How can AusTech best draw on the full range of Australian aid expertise amongst organizations How would the brandy work What's in scope What's out of scope My pitch is to say let's resource and develop a serious feasibility study on this Okay great Hey everyone So my idea is that we need to communicate aid better You might have seen this policy brief I think if I wrote about AECOMS last year and there's a big reason why this orange policy brief is still relevant This orange hot mess and the ideologies he empowers could really make life hard for global aid and unfortunately this presidential furby and his whack ideas are empowering some of our own loud and shouting minority voices As foreign minister Julie Bishop said here yesterday support for Australian aid has to come from home So people need to know what it does Political leaders need to be empowered to stay strong in the face of kooky opponents So communications is not just about engagement or accountability It's about protection I've got five things we should be doing to keep aid safe in this age of Trump and friends from a comms perspective Number one is don't get complacent How we communicate and talk about aid is something that we need to be thinking about every day not just in the heat of the moment Much of what the sector does remains a mystery to the average person We shouldn't be letting dumb myths about aid persist unchallenged Our communications failures are where alternate facts creep in So number two don't give up on facts The post-truth era is terrifying but facts still matter We still have some amazing facts and figures about development progress on our side and about the work still to be done And Hans Rosling who passed away last week he showed the amazing power of communicating knows well So number three set the deal breakers There should be some principles and aspects about a program that are non-negotiable We shouldn't have to spend our time defending them over and over again It's the job of communicators to repeat things over and over again with stories, examples and logical convincing messaging There's often little point trying to change the minds of those that put forward bad ideas but we need to provide the backup so those ideas get dismissed Number four popularism with popularism Sometimes it might feel hard to believe but aid is actually pretty popular Of course domestic priorities always come on top but we know from our public opinion work at the center that Australians generally like the idea of giving aid So we need to take a very, very small leap out of Trump's book and be more popularist and more confident in our aid messaging I'm not saying we should make stuff up but if he can somehow convince people he is against the 1% while living in a golden marble apartment we can do a better job of talking about aid And finally staying quiet is not an option Sometimes people think it is better to completely shut up about aid in the hope that fruit loops forget that it exists This makes no sense It has proven itself an easy scapegoat If we shut up we see power over the message So we need to communicate clear messages Everyone's aid and the values it represents to stay safe in this weird new world we're in Thank you Illustrations I'm stuck When Julie Bishop launched our bid for the Human Rights Council she said Australia is committed to a better world And if you read the statements from the minister and from DFAT we actually have quite a large and sophisticated approach to global human rights The problem is that is never communicated as part of a broader understanding of Australia's place in the world And I guess my central pitch is we have to find ways of making it clear that human rights are not just an optional add-on they are actually essential to our security This is not 1941 There are no submarines or fighter planes moving south ready to strike Darwin The things that are most likely to affect our security are rising political instability linked to events such as climate change food and water shortages growing global and national inequality new forms of disease unregulated flows of people All of which are far greater threats to our security in the full sense than conventional military hardware In fact, I'm very tempted by a comment one of our ambassadors made to me which is maybe we should put our aid workers into uniforms because that way Australians would understand that they are actually doing something important But my main point is we have to find a language that stresses human rights is part of a realist approach not just a moral and ethical one And I think there are three things we have to do One, we have to clean up our own house We cannot talk about global human rights while we maintain offshore detention centres And secondly, and now I'm going to relate to Ashley I think we need to, I think every morning say to ourselves he is not our president He is literally not our president Stop this nonsense that every discussion is framed by Donald Trump This is an opportunity for Australia to say we are not America we will have our own way of seeing the world And my last point is that I'm sick of politicians blaming the public for not understanding the importance of foreign aid It is about time we say to the politicians you set the discourses you set the language it is your responsibility to go out and explain to people why development assistance is an essential part of preserving Australian security What I wanted to put up on the screen was a full detailed list of ADB's private sector investment in the Pacific in 2015 and that's it So the Pacific Island countries like those of any other region need investment to develop their resources if they're to succeed economically The ADB isn't doing enough they did nothing in 2015 it's not fair they do some things in other years but they're not doing enough The International Finance Corporation is doing a little bit but it has higher priorities and it needs bigger projects than the Pacific can provide The private banks are withdrawing or limiting their lending and they don't take up equity which many small businesses need Australia's working with the ADB to improve the regulatory environment but creating an investment climate is good but it's not enough if nobody's investing and it needs an informed and committed investor who has patient capital but who requires sound business practices and realistic prospects of profitability instead of just generosity Therefore it needs some sort of development finance institution similar to CDC in the UK and other countries around the world if Australia hopefully jointly with New Zealand doesn't do it nobody else will in this region if this doesn't happen then the prospects for economic growth in many of the countries of the Pacific look bleak and this will inevitably mean more pressure for more grant funding which will be difficult to meet within a constrained budget for aid Austria recently set up something similar and they're much smaller than us funding from their equivalent of the export finance investment insurance corporation now that's actually not an ideal way to do it but it's an option it virtually cost us for the DFI to become self financing and possibly even profitable it may need to operate in Asia but the key driver is the need in the Pacific the key aspects for economic growth in the Pacific remain what the domestic government does number one labour mobility if to Australia and New Zealand and private investment this is a proposal to invigorate the third of these and it can even add some real substance to the otherwise very limited benefits to the Pacific from the PESA plus proposal and I think it's a policy proposal that actually might appeal to the current government's ideological framework and might also work thank you hi right thank you very much so Stephen Pinker Michael Wilcott referred to this yesterday has suggested there are five key factors which explain why physical violence has declined over the last 10,000 years the Leviathan and Justicia or in aid speak effective government and the rule of law gentle commerce note the gentle the feminization of society the expanding circle of empathy and the escalator of reason I think it's sobering to think that all of these drivers of progress are currently under threat as authoritarianism sexism protectionism nationalism and attacks on science and reason all seem to be on the increase the growing threat of climate change adds a new set of existential threats to this mix so in the face of this dilemma what do we do I would suggest that in different ways we must all become human rights and planetary defenders as Conagia Sea of the LSE has noted in our contemporary culture human rights are the best commitment gadget available so what is a commitment gadget well the commitment gadget I have sets me targets or I set targets it holds me to account and I can share that with anybody around the world who can then my public accountability is clear in the same way human rights conventions international law and the rest of it help establish public accountability they keep our they encourage the better angels of our nature and they overcome in my case my lazy inner demons but humans rights will only provide this rallying point for new forms of international cooperation if as Gearty argues it is recognized it's not the language of human rights it's important it's the sentiments that lie behind it to see people truly as people and therefore each of them is entitled to right treatment on account of their humanity and the good news is human rights and planetary defenders around the world are already doing this from climate warriors in the Pacific to trade unions in East Asia from those campaigning on sexual rights to fighting corruption and from indigenous rights activists to health and education professionals in many places we can and should join an existing movement so what does this mean for aid well we need as Ashley says to reframe the narrative and she's going to write it populism is not going to be defeated by spreadsheets we need to support, link and become humanitarian rights defenders and planetary defenders ourselves and that means we need to learn from and become that third we need from mood from picking winners to mold spreading i.e. we need to think about the temperature and humidity rights to build international linkages and movements and finally we need to bring all of this back home and Dennis is going to write this bit and show that the national interest is better served by investing in our common humanity as the key to addressing the collective challenges we face thank you the Pacific has always been central to Australia's aid program yet development achievements in the region have been modest the Pacific has fed poorly in economic terms related to other parts of the world and that's in part due to its unique combination of small scale and remoteness from major markets those geographical attributes mean that most Pacific Island countries must look beyond traditional development strategies that are focused on increasing exports in a recent report on labour mobility produced jointly by ANU and the World Bank we show the extent to which migration can increase the incomes of Pacific Islanders average income per person in the Pacific is around 120th what it is in Australia for a Pacific Islander the single most effective means of increasing income is through migration no aid program no policy reform comes close to bringing comparable benefits the migration of Pacific Islanders is not new of course Samoans and Tongans have the have been migrating for decades but migration is limited for Pacific Island countries where poverty is greatest PNG in Solomon Islands have among the lowest rates of migration in the world there's a real opportunity to increase the incomes of Pacific Islanders by expanding their work and migration opportunities in Australia there are also win-win opportunities Pacific Islanders benefit from working in Australia Australia can fill labour shortages in horticulture for example also in aged care in the future when we talk about development our focus tends to be the incomes of people in developing countries we don't consider migrants but what we should care about is the fact that a Solomon Islander can enjoy a 20-fold increase in their income it shouldn't matter whether that Solomon Islander remains in the Solomon Islands or migrates to Australia or in other countries for that matter our aid program recognises the importance of the Pacific for Australia and it focuses assistance accordingly our migration policy does not so what's needed is a coherent policy approach Australian migration policy should consider development impacts in regions that are important to Australia regions like the Pacific aid policy in turn should seek to facilitate migration by the poor recognising that this is a legitimate strategy to alleviate poverty the Pacific a region with limited export potential in that region aid for labour mobility makes a lot more sense than aid for trade there are many areas where the aid program can help the aid program could be used to reduce the cost of skill certification for example all graduates of the aid funded Asia Pacific Technical College could be made eligible for Australian graduate visas ensuring that Australia's migration policy and aid policy complement rather than undermine one another in relation to the Pacific would enable more Pacific Islanders to work in Australia and in doing so that would increase the incomes of Pacific Islanders and reduce poverty in the region thank you and we have received a question people asking how many times should you vote please vote for one candidate I think it'll only let you vote for one you vote for one candidate you're a preferred candidate not the one who gives you most money I think many people in this room will probably be familiar with solar water disinfection or sodas this is a way of helping to improve the quality of water so that becomes safer to drink by using the sun's UV rays and it strikes me that sodas and the power of sunlight is perhaps a really good metaphor for thinking about aid transparency which is the focus of my pitch late last year a colleague and I conducted an audit of the transparency audit of the DFAT website looking at project level transparency in the aid program this replicated an earlier audit that was done in 2013 just before the reintegration of AusAid into DFAT in 2016 as compared to 2013 we found a general decline in the public availability of details and documents about aid funded projects with the exception of evaluations of the slide increase in addition to these overall measures we looked at the availability of information by country by region by sectors and also the relationship between project size and transparency now our audit is just one way of measuring transparency and there are a number of other ways that this can be done but I think generally whether you look at some of the various transparency indices or our audit there's still a lag in the accessibility of project level information there's still some improvement at the country in the program level but going right down to the bottom there's still work to do so our key recommendation from the audit was that the Israeli aid program should develop its own custom dynamic database for publishing aid information and documents such a database would help to standardize the publication of documents and also serve as a much needed historical archive so developing a database is of course by itself not a particularly innovative idea other donors have done this and have done it well which is good news for Australia because it means there is some something to go to work from but doing so would be a new approach for Australia and I think it could make a big difference if I could just go back to SOTIS and this is not an expensive method but it does require consistent work and replenishment I think the same would be the case with the new database so developing that database might take some time and investment and it should to get a product that really works and really meets the needs of our many stakeholders particularly those in aid or sicking countries after that the running cost would be fairly minimal the key is that any effort once established would have to be sustained that new information has to be continually updated and it's also important to acknowledge there are limits to what effective transparency on quality SOTIS doesn't completely eliminate the risk of disease but it does significantly reduce it and similarly having a highly transparent aid program will not fix all of the issues all the quality improve quality but it not fix everything but it does create a strong incentive for improving quality overall so my conclusion is that now would be a great time to let the sunshine shine more strongly on the aid program thank you for the last but not least Stephen Harris he used to have to let me in as incomes grow countries graduate from aid and when it comes to Australian aid Asian countries are living on borrowed time we need to keep supporting Asia but to future-proof the aid program we need to transition away from country programs towards working on common challenges on regional and global initiatives this will involve more funding for climate change and for humanitarian crises regionally and globally but there should also be a much greater focus on research especially in areas where Australia has a comparative strength research into the diseases of the poor has sadly long been a blind spot for Australian aid not so global agricultural research since 1982 the Australian Council for international agricultural research has led the way in this area its work has thoroughly evaluated and high return it's also politically popular when the coalition came to power AusAid was abolished and the aid program slashed but ACR was preserved and its budget almost completely protected social science research is also well supported by the aid program through a variety of initiatives now supervised by DFAT much good research is undertaken but the management is underwhelming and therefore the potential far from realised initiatives come and go the missing gap is international medical research research to deliver new drugs and medical aids to diseases where the market return is weak I'm sure no one needs to be convinced of the life-saving potential of technology and innovation in this space all of Australia's strength in medical research more broadly nor the relative ease of making progress in this area in the technological space relative to the difficulties of improving governance and health systems about which we've heard a lot of this conference currently however Australian funding for global medical research is limited and bears very little fruit Mary Marana Policy Cures has shown that of the 600 global medical research ideas supported by the National Health and Medical Research Council between 2007 and 2014 none has given rise to a new market product we need more funding specifically focused on converting good ideas to life-saving this is not a task that should be given to DFAT government departments do not manage research well effective research management requires a culture of specialisation and long-term endeavour it's not that's simply not something DFAT can provide one possibility will be for the government to create a sister organisation to ACR the Australian Council for international medical research alternatively and as argued in our forthcoming deaf policy discussion paper perhaps more realistically ACR could itself be reimagined as the Australian Council for international research and given a dual mandate for both global agricultural and global medical research to survive and flourish the aid program needs to rethink regionally and globally rather than bilaterally and needs to focus on areas of Australian strength to future proof the aid program global medical research should be scaled up but not within DFAT a specialist agency is needed vote for more aid funding for global medical research vote for the Australian Council for international research thank you thank you to our nine speakers extremely well done I didn't really have to ding anybody I was quite disappointed I was looking forward to that now is your time now that everyone's spoken to vote so hopefully you have your voting cards please log in and vote once for the most promising your most preferred of the aid pitches we also have some time I'll give you a second to do that we also have some time for questions or comments or responses from the audience please make your comment or question shorter than the presentation to which you are referring we will start here my question is for Dennis and some of the crisis we are seeing today is because of the some of them are due to climate and other issues but a lot of them generate from violence and the countries where they are erupting and that violence is sometimes due partly to that foreign policy so if aid is going to be right has to incorporate an element of human rights how do you see the foreign policy aspect when it actually is intentionally or invented intentionally somehow affects the eruption of violence Dennis for one minute response I don't think I can give a one minute response I mean I obviously you're pointing to very complicated interactions and all I can say is that greater global inequality and greater inequality within nations is clearly a driver of political instability and that is something that I think is a consideration that always needs to be fed into Australian development assistance it may even, dare I say, be more important than giving contracts to Australian based industries Jason from reality learning Ashley some strategies some examples of what you might do yeah I sort of in three minutes couldn't really talk too much about that but in that policy brief that I wrote last year I talked about some of the ways that DFAT could improve its website improve the stories and messages that it that it uses and sort of engage more on social media and I think um you know look to other sectors we need to look to how other sectors communicate and convince people on their policy areas and their policy directors I think sometimes a communication has been a bit tamed so we need to be a bit more creative that's my thought perhaps we should ask the Bruin transfer to do a special show at the A conference next year any questions or comments Hi this is just a comment I think congratulations to the conference organisers for this idea which they actually copied off DFAT's innovation three-minute pitch challenge last year look I think a conference that's had such a strong focus on gender equality and if we look at the gender mix in the room but if we look at the gender mix of the speakers I think only having 30% women is very disappointing not to take away from any of the speakers but I think if we're really passionate and committed to gender equality we need to mainstream it throughout all of our activities can I just respond quickly? we did put out a public call for pictures for this so I would encourage fellow women to get involved it is slightly terrifying but it's really fun so if we run this again it would be great to have more pictures from women and less parts from those of us that work here as well this was an experiment this year I'm actually also stepping in for Kirsten Armstrong Miss Kirsten Armstrong who was actually invited to pitch today so this question over here yeah hello I have a question to Teres Volkner my question is that does she really think that the German aid the GIZ having government agency owned by the Ministry of Economy and doing crowding out service for the German companies is an efficient organization I guess that's why my initial line in the pitch was informed by but not the same as GIZ I think it's worth having a look at how that is structured in the interest of reducing those transaction costs and harnessing as I said that development expertise but no I do not think we should completely copy the German model and I know it has been accused of some inefficiencies in the past especially when GIZ was that was a number of separate implementing organizations which were then brought into into one organization and I think that was quite inefficient but yeah it's worth having a look at that type of model that's the only thing I'm saying I think you offer your great pitches I just had a question for the first speaker so it seems like there's great returns for these social enterprises it's a little bit unclear to me how exactly aid or the development program would assist if there's great returns is this a lack of access to capital sort of question in terms of that credit markets like I'm trying how would aid specifically assist in helping these social enterprises sort of spring up around the place and deal with a very important issue primarily aid can help to create the environment to allow the social enterprise to flourish and create the framework in which these environments can can operate also I think importantly there's a huge impact investment opportunities out there there's a hundred there's over a hundred billion it's really difficult for investors to find ones that are credible and are worth investing in so governments and aid agencies can get involved in helping to helping the investor market determine which ones are investable question here thank you Jane Rogers from investing in women and it's a follow on question so we should really get together with the three of us because a big section in investing in women is in fact with impact investors with a very strong gender angle and it's probably out of out of place to say it but the overall aim is to reduce sexism in the finance sector women can be well trained healthy and then energized by pitches such as yours and ready to expand into export and trade in particular and they just cannot get beyond that barrier which is very big and that is the barrier to capital so if aid can help nudge as we like to say nudge the finance sector perhaps being a little more a lot more gender responsive in both the way they do they're scoping for loans and investments equity or debt or whatever thank you so it's so we've met one of our aims of the conference even through three minutes we've already got some networking going I had a question for for bobbin for Stephen what kind of I'd like both ideas what kind of magnitude are we talking about to make these viable are we talking about a one million dollar system a ten million dollar hundred million dollar five hundred million dollar well the it depends whether you want to just be in the pacific or more broadly but if we can if the money comes from the export finance insurance corporation I think we can afford to be quite ambitious because that will be an investment which they'll eventually get a return on but if it's going to come out of the budget itself then you start quite small I mean you only need several million I think to have a basic financial institution that will operate but the experience suggests it can actually make a profit so it shouldn't over time be a drain on the budget but there will be a capital injection initially and it depends on the source how big it is well there's different ways to answer that question one if you do think long-term the future of aid it really is moving away from country programs towards these global and regional initiatives and that from that scenario the sky's the limit if you look at ACR their budget over a hundred million that's one benchmark and then what we actually argue in our paper because it's actually with Camilla is there is actually 40 million dollars being spent on global medical research but it's mainly through national health medical research council it's on that basic research it's not being translated OzA DFAT have put their toe in the water of that translational research where we basically argue for matching the basic research by the translational research so that would be a double and we could just say 80 as you can see this number down here the number of votes 209 votes have come in so if anyone is waiting for the quality of the answers to the questions before they are deciding now is the time to do it we will be there we go one more we will be announcing the winner quite soon so we'll have time for one or two more questions or comments that's one or three mine is to Ashley Ashley you know I think sometimes in the sector we're a bit scared that if we're honest about aid that the baby might be thrown out with the bath water in your pitch how much do you think we should sorry get to you know what some of the I won't say failures challenges are because we don't seem to talk about them much something that is a bit of an issue because when things you know maybe don't go to plan people think oh it's not working and they don't know why they don't know that it's hard they don't know that it's complex and I think that is something that we do need to bring across in our communications as well but of course you know working in communications it's all about the spin there's a way to spin the challenges of aid in a way that makes it engaging and interesting to hear about and to connect with audiences so it's also you know something that I think we should talk about more but also think about how we do it in a way that doesn't make people just think nothing works I can't do anything I may as well not donate or you know support aid because nothing works like we really have to keep it positive but engaging and honest a bit more honest I think it's a good idea it's a question for Matthew about migration potential so a good idea about looking at APTC and I guess it could become could help to commercialize that model a little bit because presumably if there's a carrot of migration at the end more people will be willing to pay for those courses and perhaps the aid budget could be freed up to help more of the poor to use the APTC I think it's not very poverty focused at the moment it's mostly at the service of industry which is good in itself but then what would you do about the flow of good graduates into local industries in the Pacific and also have you thought about other sectors that we we don't think about such as sport huge sport sport skills in the Pacific huge cultural skills in the arts skills of community development the military and security are these sectors that you've thought about beyond the horticulture the kind of seasonal worker program yeah thanks very much for the question look I think there are there are many industries that offer potential and those will change in the future as the Australian population ages so I think the aged care sector is a very obvious one there's no aged care sector in most of the Pacific so investing in education in countries like Tonga where there is there are no nursing homes won't lead to brain drain so brain drain is always the concern when we talk about labor mobility for the region and it's certainly something that needs to be thought about but I don't think it's an argument against the promotion of labor mobility per se it's just something that needs to be considered in the design for example by training more people than are needed in an industry locally or by focusing on industries where which don't exist in that country thank you I Ashley I thought hers was by far the best presentation I didn't vote for you Ashley but I think we need more of Ashley's type of presentation so that we can inspire the community my question really is to Chris about the establishment because I like the idea of the establishment of a human human rights and planetary defenders movement my question is Chris and it goes to Ashley as well I suppose how important is it and how do we engage the Australian community beyond being taxpayers to pay for the government aid program and donors to NGOs how important it is is it to actually engage them in human rights and defending activities I mean the reason I made the picture did is because I think we've all got personal responsibility and it doesn't matter if we are seeing friends and family abused or whether we're seeing partners abused we've got to stand up and so that's the starting point for me and that's and then we have to extend our horizons to others and that's where we know from evolutionary psychology that actually we don't do that very well we extend our horizons to our closest we need to be have these commitment gadgets that force us into seeing further seeing as one voting for humanity which is what you can do if that's me because but I think the important point is this emerges and I think we try too often to social engineer it through our programs but we have some great stuff in the gender panel about how that emerges through reflexive practice through feminist principles of organizing through international linkages and those exist but let's build from them learn from them join them okay so we're going to announce the winner in a moment the votes will come up so before we actually show the vote just wanted to thank all of our very brave and well presented one more vote just came in someone waiting to the last second and the winner is hopefully this works we don't have a trophy that's bigger than the trophy humanitarian award well thank you everybody for participating thank you for your contributions and morning tea please all right two directions if it is if it's a little more about lack of range all right I think that's I think that's I'm just trying not to use them that's the do the wrong thing yeah okay so that one could be because my my my my my my my my all right here we go thank you thank you um so if you guys just want to just make sure thank you thank you yes one by one and then once you're finished you'll come right over the wall classes that I'm here from you'll have one one microphone for the the chair chair in front and then then one my one we'll we'll we'll probably thinking that a lot of there's really a a lot of people waiting waiting but just in place it's not anything but it's it's it's it's it's one for that we'll be there we'll find us so we'll I need to just sit and that good morning this is the panel on working with and through market to address poverty reduction before we get into our speakers I'm just gonna spend a couple of minutes 90 minutes most poor people interact with markets in fact because many poor people live in areas with limited state service provision they often depend on private markets even more than richer people as consumers poor women and men rely on markets to meet their needs for food and essential services as employees or producers they sell their labor or products in markets fundamentally markets are essential for poor people's livelihoods but these markets are often difficult or costly for poor people to access for example poor farmers may lack access to reliable and regular information about what crops are in demand consumer products are often not offered in the sizes and types that poor people want poor workers may lack access to transportation to and from good jobs and social customs often make it difficult for women or particular groups to interact with other buyers and sellers if we flip the perspective on this as we've heard at this conference these problems can also present opportunities for businesses to provide information to farmers so that they can buy more products that are in demand to provide consumer products to a vast market to ensure that they can keep and get productive workers and to ensure that more people can buy and sell the products that they need market-based approaches which is the topic of today's session aim to make markets around poor people work better to make them grow and to make them more accessible and more beneficial to poor and excluded men and women to enable those poor men and women to integrate into growing markets on beneficial terms and the idea behind this is that they will then enable these poor women and men to improve their livelihoods by taking advantage of new opportunities and choices our four speakers today are going to discuss the market systems systems development approach this is an approach to promoting inclusive growth that's been developing over about the last 15 years or so but I think it's important to realize before we start that market-based approaches or market systems development as we'll be discussing today is not a fixed set of activities or even a fixed set of strategies market systems development is based on key principles and a thorough and ongoing diagnostic of the context of poor people and the markets around them thus market development must be tailored to the dynamics of a particular market the poor people or the target group that we're aiming to reach and the existing relationship between the two the strategies and tactics that programs employ differ along a continuum from light touch partnerships with companies through to building the productive capacities of communities to engage in market and everything in between while the strategies are founded on the same principles of beneficial market integration and sustainability the activities implemented vary based on the context and can be used individually or in combination our first and last speakers today we'll talk about market systems development more broadly a bit about how it started as an approach globally in an Australian aid how to manage it and how it fits in the wider picture sector development our second and third speakers today will give examples of strategies in different contexts under the broad banner of market systems development approach we'll hear from the first we'll hear from all the speakers first so that you can get a complete picture of the topic we're talking about and then we'll go into questions at the end but please do keep track of your questions as we go along so that when we get to the last speaker you're ready with them so without further ado let me introduce Alwyn Silver I've known Alwyn for a long time and he is a luminary in the world of private sector development he currently leads Palladium's Asia Pacific team in inclusive economic growth Alwyn worked as a technical advisor for AusAid from 2005 through 2012 and diffed from 1999 through 2005 during his tenure in AusAid he led the development of a suite of market development in private sector development programs and at that time that was absolutely pioneering in AusAid Alwyn is going to discuss both the development of the market systems development approach and his personal journey to embracing market systems development I'll just click this thank you very much Ali very kind words as Ali says I'm going to talk briefly about what the market systems development approach is and what it isn't and then quickly tell you the story of how things evolve through AusAid and into DFAT and I did once spend a day with a wonderful communications expert Kirsty McIver and a few other AusAid colleagues trying to articulate trying to work out how we can communicate this better in AusAid we started at 8 and by 4.30 he said this is too bloody hard I'm going home so I'm going to batter you with some slides which really try and summarize things up as Ali has described very eloquently it's an approach that recognized market systems and I know I struggled a lot I didn't come from this world I struggled a lot with the word market means I'm an economist by training and it means particular things to me so I'd really emphasize the systems bit of the story it's about doing lots of good and deep analysis about what is going on in a system and then deciding what can we as temporary players in that temporary players in that system do to make things better and it's really no more complicated than that but it takes a really clever bunch of people to make it happen and make it work well it's really all these principles up here possibly motherhood and apple pie to you if you're a good development practitioner which I'm sure you all are it's all stuff that I don't think anybody in the world of aid can really argue with it's about addressing underlying causes not just putting sticky blasters on things it's about leveraging the actors in the system it's about being serious about scale and being really really serious about sustainability which too much of aid hasn't been for many years hasn't really cared about what happens when we leave and that point I made earlier it's about we as donors or as actors we don't belong in the back end of East Timor or the front end of PNG or Sri Lanka or wherever we are temporary players we're trying to catalyze something that will continue to happen and continue to grow and get better once we've got out of the way just a really important thing that I found earlier in my days what market system development is not it doesn't we don't we're not trying to create perfect markets because they don't exist anywhere in the world it's not really promoting a whole free market blurb and it's not just about the private sector I'm probably guilty in my early days of talking about business and private sector and perhaps gave people the impression that's all of that it's about the actors in the system the people in the system who have incentives to do things to make money or to establish relationships to expand their reach or whatever frequently these kinds of programs have been accused of neglecting the role of government and that is a grave grave error and should not be so it's not about subsidies are bad excuse the spelling there and it's definitely not about private being good and public being bad just very quickly as Ali's alluded to you know MSD ain't rocket science and it really mirrors this sort of came to me only a couple of years ago it mirrors the way the rest of development thinking has gone and very briefly overview I used to be be classified I classified myself as a rural development advisor or and worked in water water water systems and and I remember when I first started doing aid a long long time ago education health people we did projects you know then them we basically evolve to think about education systems that's trying to prove how the education system work it's not just our project it's not just the government system but it's all the actors in the system and really economic growth private sector development has has come through a similar journey and this is where we are today which is not really very different from where other fields or other areas of development are very quickly my story a part of the context back in 2006 and I've got some mates here who are who are there with me and in when we were Ozade in those days this is the kind of conversations we were having look I'm doing development I'm in charge I want to be in control a lot of treasury trained economists were frequenting Ozade and still do de-fat these days and they are very well trained to don't meddle with markets allow the the unseen guiding hand of the market to leave it leave it well alone our role is to fix the enabling environment there's also concerns you know what are we doing talking to business giving money to businesses they're part of the problem and actually back in those days private sector development was something that we we being Ozade asked the IFC and the ADB to do it was it was kind of too probably too hard for us this these all didn't happen in sequential order but a big part of the story was the aid white paper this is the the white paper back then because I know there's another one now back in 2006 and actually Stephen Howes and Bruce Davis said look we need something on the private sector there he is Stephen Howes there was a few good women and men in the organization who were grabbed by this idea of how can we engage with business to achieve more sustainable development outcomes not just in in technical areas but in the procurement area some wonderful people who were keen to sort of try and make this work Fleur Davies now head of Indonesia she was in Cambodia just wrapping up a series of an extension program or a search program and she said hey I hear Valley Chain programs are the thing now let's do one of those in Cambodia thus was born Kavak eventually the enterprise challenge fund that's something that we got going and again Stephen was the sort of protector and the champion of that and whilst it may not have been the the perfect instrument at the time I think it was the perfect instrument because challenge funds are kind of easily defendable here's some public money but we're going to make it an open competition we're going to demand at least 50 percent hopefully 70 80 percent from the private sector in a fair competition to to see who can give us the best deal to achieve some development results it was simple and very easy to defend then along came the food crisis and my team basically were asked to develop a budget measure and we persuaded the powers that be that market system development should be a key part of that food security response it's something that Australia really had something to offer the world in terms of how Australia approach approaches agriculture and food security and that was sort of embellished a few years later by an ODE review of evaluation of rural development ODE is the opposite of development effectiveness and they conducted a review of our history in rural development and kind of weren't very impressed at least the first draft which was pretty honest said you know we're achieving a huge amount here there's some good stuff there's some but nothing's really lasting is it it then got edited into something a little bit more palatable for the powers that be but really it made people sit up and think perhaps we need to do something different and here in summary you have a sort of a a capture of how programming development how things have really what I'm trying to convey here is things have really taken off back in the 2006 we funded ADB and IFC to do stuff the enterprise challenge fund was off was Ozade's first real attempt to explicitly engage with business in a very safe and transparent way CAVAC was the Cambodia value chain program and then MDF followed soon after the market development facility you'll hear lots more practical stuff from Muja in a minute other countries were added and MDF's movement Sri Lanka and PNG more recently sorry these dates are probably not quite perfect but essentially you see something of an explosion of initiatives in the area which we could broadly to market systems development engaging with business proactively of course Julie Bishop comes in and oh sorry I should just backtrack back in 2008 to 12 we still had what Simon Kramp was called no official policy cover for this kind of work it was a few good women and men and we're trying to get stuff going we were faced with the rapidly growing aid budget and an increased attention to results in the aid program which is all a good thing however fact I've got five minutes try again I'm flying along but in fact market as you'll to be honest market systems development programs they can't spend money fast they typically have a very very slow start they can move mountains of money once they're once they're going basically they place a heavy heavy emphasis on analyzing the system and trying to find ways in which they can nudge the system someone used that word in the earlier earlier session but they don't bankroll big things early on they don't typically generate results very quickly I know every DFAT program manager wants to see quick wins they need big teams and back in these days you know TA was was really getting a hammering and in many regards quite rightly there was particularly in PNG you know Australia was funding all this all these these secondments into ministries etc and there was a real recognition that that wasn't really taking PNG very far forward but actually to have the capacity to do the analysis to have the brains to have the savvy to really understand what's going on and really be part of not become part of the system but understand what's going you need really big teams you need very bright teams and actually not your usual not necessarily your usual development hires there was a concern back then that MSD was kind of ignoring government systems and it didn't work through government systems I think pretty much every project I showed up before tries to operate treat government as a critical partner but operate independent of government so that it has credibility when it deals with business it's not captured by government and of course the skills and the teams as those of us in the field now they're really hard to find things have burgeoned and the world of MSD has been going now for sort of 15 or so years depending on how you define it and the teams of people with the skills are emerging and developing final slide today it's a very different story Julie Bishops given us the go ahead and the team in DFAT and all the teams out on the programs are really kicking some goals and really grabbing the momentum and running with it this is the narrative these days over in DFAT it's all about promoting growth private sector is the engine of growth we need to get I mean Julie Bishop has called for private sector to be considered in every aspect of the A program wherever I look by the way I don't find that I don't find rigorous systematic thinking about what's the private sector doing here could it be doing more is it causing damage are there things that we could be engaging with she wants A to be catalytic and I think market systems develop if there's one word that describes it it tries to be a catalyst not become part of the system obviously innovating and engaging with the private sector a big theme and really for me it's the platform for a lot of for where development should be going it provides a platform to what I call what I say is sort of wean a lot of the partners and the programs that are on currently funded by the donor the donor pot there's huge potential with programs like MDF programs like Prisma to engage with the real world of investments and the real world of business and to basically launch these things off so not just in the program themselves but to write a platform for impact investing or just basic investing program MSD programs nurture develop new business models that create social benefits that benefit for people and are you know investable sustainable commercial propositions thank you thanks Alan we'll now go on to two presentations by practitioners who are going to give some examples of how this looks in the field the first is Mojideed Mosim Moja has been an innovative market market development practitioner for the last eight years he started in catalyst in Bangladesh catalyst is one of the most successful market development programs globally in its first five-year phase the program benefited approximately 700,000 farmers and small businesses and in its second five-year phase it went on to reach a further 2.3 million increasing their incomes by about 295 million U.S. dollars Moja has also worked for two market development programs in Nigeria and since 2012 Moja has worked for DFAT's market development facility he's currently the country representative for Fiji in Papua New Guinea and we'll discuss some examples of market systems development from these two countries thank you Ali for the introductions and thanks Alvin for the presentation I think it takes care of at least three slides for me and I'll try and stick to the time well while the presentation is going on I guess I'll just one thing that I would like to start start this is if this presentation here I would like to talk through two examples the first one would be from Fiji and if time permits I'd like to go into an example from PNG also but I'd like to use these examples as a way of talking about how we can build a portfolio of partnerships in different contexts and you know slowly build build these partnerships to through measuring learning and improving to get the outcomes that we are expecting okay so we've talked about this already so MDF fully funded by DFAT and Cardinal Emerging Markets implemented we started in Fiji in 2011 and since then we're in four other countries I guess without going to the principles of market systems development too much I just want to highlight couple of things which is you know it's context understanding the context is the start of all our work context do lead to well context decide who we work with on what we work with what kind of problems we address etc so all our work although across all five countries we are a market system we do apply the market system development approach in each country the context of these countries define the kind of work that we do and of course the benefits are pro-core long-term inclusive and sustainable now if context is so important what we need is the ability to find local partners that fit the local contexts and the solutions proposed that's very important we need local teams that understand the local context and are curious and investigative they can research and analyze and constantly monitor the changes in the context so that the solutions that they're providing fits whatever changes that we're seeing we also need to back the teams up with a system which can rigorously monitor and measure progress and results and allows us to capture the data and tells us you know manages the data and then feeds it back into the program management and lastly we need the program to overall be able to take the lessons from the people on the ground as well as the systems and put it together and can learn continuously adapt to these changing conditions and continue to introduce better refined appropriate solutions today I'll start off with the example from Fiji anyways so in Fiji I'll run through this a little bit but if you do have any questions about our selection process or whatever we can take care of this after the presentation in Fiji we work in three sectors and one of the sectors is agriculture particularly export oriented agriculture and in this sector we look at the demand side so we help we work with exporters such as let's say the largest root crop exporter in Fiji to improve their systems and improve their linkages with producers and improve certifications so that they can access high-priced markets in Australia and New Zealand but for today I'm going to focus on the inputs agricultural inputs side of things so as I said the beginning of this work was around 2011 and we did spend quite a bit of time trying to understand the context that we're working in and for the agricultural inputs market context this was it so we start off let's start off with on the farmer side farmers were mostly practicing traditional cultivation they had pockets of semi-commercial farming mostly around sugarcane or around vegetables or root crops but it was not so much and it was as I said pockets of it so let's say the western part of Viti Lebu or Singatoka or some parts of Manu Lebu let's say the farmers also did not have access to information or had problems accessing information and agricultural inputs and the way these agricultural inputs whatever was available was made available in a way that did not necessarily take into account the differences between let's say female farmers and male farmers so as an example information or products would let's say reach a market there was not much care given to how to reach female farmers there was also not much effort given to understanding how we can reach female farmers better on the input side as you can see we have we had some inputs coming into the country through imports there were seeds filled a little bit of coffee but still there's seeds and we also had pesticide importers and we had fertilizer importers and these importers were bringing in these inputs as a result of let's say government orders or donor orders and they would supply directly to government agencies who placed the orders or to the donors or they would supply to a few agricultural input stores there was a handful of agriculture focused stores in Fiji at that point and so for a farmer across Fiji which is by the way a group of 300 plus islands it is quite hard for them to get around if they wanted to get access to inputs or any information that these providers could provide they would have to get to wherever these importers were are and also get to those find those few stores and get there the stores themselves I mean they did a lot of other things agriculture focused was there but then they didn't really invest too much on expanding the networks so even around the stores themselves it was just a very localized situation in terms of supplying these inputs the green is for nurseries there were a handful of nurseries but most of them were not commercial they were set up as a disaster response a measure by government or by donors there were fewer on the country actually there was a lot of cool work that was being done in those nurseries but it was not just it was not made available to people who could use it because it was not commercially oriented and the same was given by a government the Ministry of Agriculture like other let's say public sector entities are stretched and whatever resources human and other ways that they did have they focused on very few crops or very few locations so in a sense there were some inputs there were some people selling it there was government talking to some other people but by and large farmers were not necessarily served and as I said we are working with exporters so under these conditions even if exporters did open up markets and they did want products and they did go out to farmers to buy them the farmers themselves would not necessarily be ready or be able to invest in the farms and cater to that demand so in this context we one of the outcomes that we wanted to get to was we wanted to help agriculture input providers to expand their reach as well as improve the basket of products that they have so that they can better serve the interests of small farmers and not just in pockets but across as many of the agricultural areas of PG as possible so in the following slides I'll just take you through since 2011 what kind of changes that we have made and as our as the keynote speaker yesterday mentioned it has not been a linear process there has been a lot of trying things out working with different types of partners and you know partners and you know it's been private sector partners it has been public sector partners it has been I suppose non-orthodox ones social civil society organizations etc so and throughout this process this whole learning monitoring results and learning has played a huge part in making us realize what are the things that we can continue doing so what are the failures and how can what can we learn from it and how can we build on this so as we mentioned before we had a few inputs into the into the country and we had a few stores reaching a few types of farmers when we started the work we just we thought okay maybe it is a good idea for us to start improving the product basket so we start working with our agricultural line manufacturer in the country to address let's say widespread soil acidity conditions in PG we also went on to work with partners to introduce mechanization solutions and also seedlings so just to improve the product base so what was up for offer to farmers we helped establish a commercial a fully commercial nursery which was which was now capable of supplying to farmers not just seeds for their horticulture needs but also timber let's say or forestry products as well as be able to help out or be there during disaster response times the latest one on the input side has been working with the first commercial tissue culture lab in PG to start with introducing high quality disease replant lifts for root crops and bananas and so we have been linking them up with with nurseries just to just to get to farmers now all this time we have been measuring or we have been monitoring the response of introducing these these products on the farmer side as well as on the product side of course we are seeing how these sales are going etc but then we are also triangulating that by monitoring the groups that our target beneficiaries and seeing as these products are being introducing in the market has the uptake been along the lines of what we are expecting and we saw that no it was not we did improve the product product basket quite a bit we had a lot more products in the market but farmers are still not buying it or still not using it so during during our monitoring exercises and what we realized was that although this is happening they're still being they're still fairly localized these farmers are not aware and I mean women and men farmers are not aware of all the different types of products that are available in the market so we decided to start working with government agencies like to be sure about reaching these doctors visit or minister of agriculture attention officers as well as outside of partners in seeing if we can start talking about promotions making you know awareness you know working on awareness and raising activities and because we have been monitoring farmers we also have some data around what kind of farmers are we talking about what is a farming household as of women and men farmers how what are they looking for what are the things that are important for them so we did try and work on activities promoting these products by aligning them with the data that we found but then even after that what we realized during our monitoring was that the the uptake has not been as much again as we thought it was more farmers knew about the type of products and services available but they still did not buy and use them as much again we go back to our results measurement system we start talking about so why if you know about this why are you not buying it and accessibility became a problem that you know but accessibility is something that farmers kept talking about farmers in agricultural centers in PG did not have access to these products at the right time at the right place so we started thinking of how can we then improve this distribution mechanism how can we get importers or manufacturers of inputs in Fiji to reach out to the end consumers initially there was some thinking that each of these companies could develop their own very specific distribution mechanisms but what we realized was that in Fiji there is already examples of good good practices in distribution there are fast moving consumer goods distributors they do things quite well they're reaching all corners of Fiji at right prices they've got the infrastructure so why not approach them and tell them that well if you have a particular line of products and you're distributing them would you be interested in expanding your product space and start distributing agricultural products took a bit of conversation because agriculture is not necessarily seen as a business you know there is investment necessary in terms of just informing your your HR and also just figuring out who these what I actually what I found interesting was that these groups of farmers were the ones who were getting stuff sold by these distributors but then when we started talking to distributors about farmers being a different type of consumers it is still taking a bit of time for them to get into terms with that but still we managed to get partnerships going with with three commercial distributors of fast moving consumer goods but now they're also moving agricultural products so far they're moving one or two we're hoping that in the future we'll be able to pass a lot more agricultural products through them the result has been that the cost has you know the farmers are getting access to the right items to the right place to the right time and also the prices of products are also going down what about since then we've also been able to sign up a partnership on an inter-island logistics provider it's a it's a barge service focusing on agriculture and I'm quite happy to say that they have actually put money you know so these are partners all our partners are co-investors so the logistics company has actually put in money to get a barge going between Viti level and Banu level the two main islands and get inter-island transportation so we are quite happy to see that and we know that all these other partners that we have been putting putting together would benefit from that the last bit is we would like to see how we can introduce financial products in agriculture and as I said results measurement or our progress monitoring progress measuring results it has been played a huge part in this in this whole process and you know when we are continuing to keep close track of the end users the our beneficiaries the farmers are these providing the right benefits to the right types of farmers at the right time or not and we anticipate that these lessons as they keep coming will help us modify this picture further going forward and take agriculture towards a more commercial orientation so that's Fiji I think about two minutes so I'll quickly go through an example in Papua New Guinea in Papua New Guinea again rural input services is an engagement area of interest for us I'll not go too much into again you can ask me questions later as to why we think it's important to work on but in PNG we also have let's say a similar situation where we have farmers and we have lots of imports of agricultural inputs but they're mostly in cities they're not in fact in PNG the distance and the disconnect is so huge that might as well could be in two different countries all together so of course the problems of disconnect lack of access lack of variety of input that's still let's say that's that's where the similarity would end with Fiji everything else would be different so we're trying out a few things here we're seeing that at the at the national level there are large imports of agricultural inputs they do have the transportation and they are able to reach let's say Mount Hagen or Goroka or other let's biggest cities there are also smaller smaller town-based retail stores who are who have access to a lot more who are much closer to these farming communities doesn't make sense first to not connect them but then of course in PNG the transportation all of these provide a different challenge so we are also trying out a few more ways of getting inputs to farmers one way is cutting out this this of this and seeing if it's locally manufactured manufactured inputs using locally available raw materials would be helpful and lastly we are exploring backward linkages and seeing if if that's again a more formalized buyers a buyer-farm relationship would help but then these are all the questions that we are still considering I guess I'll just finish off with saying that you know this has been you know we continue to be very very as context as aware of the context as possible we do invest for a lot of a lot of effort in learning and continuing to integrate the lessons into our work going forward yeah and then so the mixture of a very curious investigative team on the ground with a system that allows us to gather this knowledge and and package it and it makes it usable for program management I think that's that's what will help us be contextually sensitive and help us introduce more continue introducing appropriate solutions for these different contexts thank you very much thanks Muja I think it's really interesting to hear him highlight how we as development actors can bring that perspective of seeing the whole system we often find that businesses are know a lot but they tend to look at markets from their own perspective and we as development actors can bring that analytical thinking that research to understand the bigger picture and see how this system can be made to work better for companies and for businesses but indeed for poor people as well our next speaker is Mark Harwood Mark is the learning manager for World Vision Australia's social entrepreneurship and economic development or seed unit this unit designs and develops business-based approaches to help poor communities increase their household incomes as well as broker public-private partnerships to achieve scale and maximize social impact World Vision's approach has received a number of awards from the LearnX Pacific Foundation prior to joining World Vision Australia Mark worked with Accenture as a management consultant and their strategy and change management division before having a particularly frustrating day when he went online to check if World Vision had any jobs on offer Mark will discuss some examples of World Vision's work along the continuum of market systems development strategies Thank you Allie So I'm in the seed team which is social entrepreneurship and economic development Thank you Alan for putting the seed team up on his timeline which was great to see although I think it's a slightly different seed and I'll give you an overview of how World Vision works in inclusive market system development Okay so World Vision we probably don't need a huge introduction for World Vision we're the world's largest INGO we help 100 million people globally and we're working in 87 countries that number fluctuates one or two countries every time I do a presentation and we have 45,000 staff We work across the spectrum of humanitarian response development and through to advocacy Our global spend annually in resilience and livelihoods is 200 million dollars a little bit closer to home in Australia we have 375,000 donors given the seed units based in Melbourne we have chosen to to really focus on resilience and livelihoods as a thematic strategic area for us and our regional focuses are Asia Pacific and also fragile context The seed team works across a number of areas so agricultural value chains market linkages enterprise development enabling environment so that's the largest scale women's economic empowerment youth livelihoods and also financial literacy So we have some guiding principles at World Vision so it relates a lot to what our one and would you have already said We do a detailed inclusive market analysis before any project to understand what is the market system and who are the market actors and how can the most vulnerable benefit from engaging and interacting with that market We want to achieve growth we want to make sure that growth is inclusive so we're very willing to work with the private sector we want to make sure that they're also interested in social impacts alongside profit Ultimately as World Vision as many of you know we are a child wellbeing organization and so when we do measure and increase the household income we want to know how has that benefited the children in that household and also we understand that economic development takes takes place in a more holistic development approach so we also look at sort of gender gender based violence natural resource management education health etc It's very participatory so a lot of our programs are community led so how can we partner and work with communities to help them reach their economic goals and contextual so a lot like World Vision said we work along that spectrum of MSD and will it be light touch or do we need to be a little bit more hands on and work alongside those communities to ensure that their household productive capacity can be increased so they can better engage with the markets in terms of sustainability we make sure that the farmers have the knowledge the skills the expertise but also the key relationships with other market actors to ensure that once we all leave the program and World Vision is no longer there or our partners are no longer there or if private partners do pivot that happens often in the market system those smallholder farmers are equipped to be able to respond and also integrate with that with market fluctuations as they occur also important to us is the fact that the smallholder farmers have a balanced view of market opportunities so they understand to balance those opportunities and harness those opportunities but also understand the risks associated with that and mitigate those so as Ali mentioned there's a bit of a spectrum in MSD and World Vision works across that spectrum I'm going to present three examples that show the different ways in which World Vision is currently working there's cocoa production in P&G where we're working directly with the households to increase their productive capacity there's a bit of a blended model in Sri Lanka which I personally look after which is growing small businesses and then there's a micro franchising project in Cambodia which is more light touch and working directly through private partners so the PPAP project in Bogoville prior to the nine-year conflict in Bogoville but it was producing the largest amount of cocoa of anywhere in P&G unfortunately during the conflict that was put to a halt people could not access their land but since then growth has stagnated due to aging trees cocoa pod borough and also the fact that the younger community members don't have the expertise or even the interest to engage in the cocoa sector this is funded by the World Bank but administered by the P&G Cocoa Board the government organisation and their objective is to rehabilitate the cocoa industry as a whole lead partners are exporters NGOs and the Growl cooperative well vision's role is to make sure the government has asked us to make sure that the most isolated and most fragile communities are able to engage in the market and to take advantage of what the market is able to offer them as it progresses and develops so far over 7,000 farmers have been touched but that's being increased on a daily basis as more and more farmers are starting up so we facilitated access and also direct interventions at helping improve the productive capacity of the cocoa producers so to overcome the cocoa pod borough we applied a lot of integrated pest and disease management there's a lot of grafting of new clones cocoa clones that are more resilient for the cocoa pod borough and also budwood gardens smoke-free dryers is important to meet those market requirements seedlings and also crop rotation through these interventions the most isolated cocoa farmers were able to meet the market demands of a particular exporter a global logistics company known as OutSpan and they were willing to work with these farmers who were then able OutSpan was willing to provide rainforest-aligned certification and now OutSpan is purchasing the cocoa at a premium price and exporting to Asian markets I was in Bougainville my first trip with World Vision so sort of six years ago and I feel the devastation that cocoa pod borough had literally just annihilated whole fields of cocoa trees I'm very happy the PPAP projects have taken place these are community-owned fermentaries which expose the cocoa to far too much smoke for international markets so they weren't able to access those international markets and they are focusing predominantly on domestic markets which could take those smoky cocoa and through the PPAP project they are also improving these existing community-owned fermentaries and also registering new fermentaries with the TNG board so as well as the World Bank funding World Vision is also using DFAT funding to also support with those systems that are interrelated and interdependent yet bump up against the market system so we're working with the community to ensure that they have financial literacy and savings so if they're going to earn more income from the cocoa from the premium process through OutSpan how can we ensure that they actually save and use that income on income-generating activities we're building social cohesion and trust through producer groups the importance of child protection and reducing child labour in the cocoa value chain reducing GBV and having those conversations at the household level gender-based violence and also the importance of nutrition the importance of understanding that vegetables are also an important element of your diet and not just clear out your vegetable plots to only produce cocoa and there's a lovely quote from a Bergenville farmer who said we're now working together and saving together the price of the conflict we were or during the conflict we were fighting so based on this improved household production of cocoa farmers a lot of crowding in has happened by private players and so there's been privately owned firmatries established agri-inputs there's now a need for higher quality agri-inputs and transport providers a lot of boat owners who are working around the coast at Bergenville are shipping that new cocoa to OutSpan which is big second project is a rise in Cronegola which is northwest Sri Lanka and that's enabling rural businesses to scale such as in the Shanties so World Vision is working with our micro-finance subsidiary partner vision fund identified a fundamental gap in the finance market which was the fact that businesses like in the Shanties were falling into the missing middle so they graduated beyond micro-finance but they're not able to access debt or equity through commercial avenues we worked with vision fund to adjust their business model to increase their loan size previously it was three and a half thousand dollars US and now they've increased their loan size to 20,000 USD so far 60 plus loans have been provided obviously these these businesses as they scale provide marketing and employment opportunities that's around the community they're a real catalyst the local community and economy but also World Vision through that blended approach is working with the small holder farmers to make sure they can engage with these small businesses and actually produce the quantity and the quality that these businesses require so Nishanti is purchasing Koya from small holder producers and she's also employing women like these who are sorting and grading the Koya for Nishanti Janaki was another client who've arrived and she produces Koya brushes and mats and exports those internationally by taking a loan through the arise project she was able to employ another 10 women from surrounding community she's increased their wages she's significantly increased her production and also her monthly profit and look at that Matt very closely because I was in Bunnings this Matt said product of Sri Lanka we haven't done a very trained analysis to see if that's actually Janaki but I'm very interested to see and know that is coming from from the Janaki has given her buyer the export internationally the third project is May so it's a lot more it's light touch as opposed to the two previous examples this is taking place in the Takio province in Cambodia what we're doing is we're working through the agri input providers because that was identified as a real problem as a root cause to a lot of the issues that the small holder farmers were facing in Takio province DFAT funded that we're working with IDE international development enterprises they had an existing network of farm business advisors who provide access to high quality inputs but also ongoing advisory services that are directly tailored and related to those inputs that the farmers are gaining access to IDE were unable to scale beyond their existing network and so working with World Vision we were able to de-risk and help them to expand their network into the target locations that we helped them to identify and as you can see we've already we've already scaled the FBA model but also the end goal at the outcome level was to make sure those FBAs would benefit 2000 farmers FBAs like I said in Takio providing inputs to help with vegetable production particularly tomatoes and cucumbers so it's the fertilizer drip irrigation and also the seed to grow these crops they're also purchasing the inputs on credit to make sure that it's accessible to those most isolated and more vulnerable community members who otherwise would not be able to access such high quality inputs and there's opportunity for World Vision to look at raising equity to help IDE stand even further so that's sort of moving beyond that grant funding which is what we're also doing with the previous project and Arise where we believe we can access blended finance using grant funding to de-risk private capital which could potentially be used as debt for those loans okay in its first year the Mays project which is micro-franchised agricultural service expansion recruited 41 new FBAs that was able to assist over 1600 small hold of farmers they've got 101% year-on-year growth of their sales and those input and through doing impact measurement at the at the farmer level we identified that 90% of those farmers have increased their sales by 30% given it is more light touch we have done some assessment at the farmer level and has identified that there was a lack of saving behaviour among the farmers which the community members actually requested from World Vision and a lot of women farmers were not accessing the FBA as readily as their male counterparts I'm actually ahead of time but I think that's a good thing so I look forward to the questions Arise thank you thanks Mark I think Mark's presentation really highlighted the importance of context I think programs aren't meant to be designed from a central location but I work with a wise team leader who always tells the staff the truth is out there meaning out in the field we have to get out and understand the context and not rely on any assumptions about what businesses might or might not do what poor people may or may not want but that get out there and find out and then design our programs around it so that was a great example of that our last speaker is Julie Delforce Julie is a senior specialist in agricultural development and food security for DFET in this role she is a deriving force in strengthening the quality of agricultural development initiatives across the DFET portfolio she's been focusing in particular on market systems development programs and in recent months participated in the midterm review for DFET's large market systems development project in eastern Indonesia called AIP Rural as well as a monitoring visit to MDF in Sri Lanka Julie joined ASE in 1998 and since then has covered a wide range of development topics across both Asia and the Pacific before that she worked as an economic advisor at the Pacific Islands Forum Secretariat managed a crop analysis team at Ibaris and dabbled in university lecturing consulting and research Julie will discuss market systems development in the context of DFAT today both globally and in specific countries Thanks Sally so Elwyn talked earlier about the evolution of market based approaches and market systems development in particular in our aid program my role is really to outline why we think these approaches are still or in fact have been more relevant today I'll give a very brief outline of the policy context that some of this has already been covered move on to a few of the principles that donor agencies like DFAT need to apply in managing this kind of program and I'll give a few examples of how DFAT's tailoring market systems development approaches to specific country circumstances also just like to mention that I'll be drawing on the work of a number of DFAT colleagues for this presentation a number of whom are in the audience today so the words leverage catalytic and so on partly stem from this fact around the changing role of aid back in the 1990s aid was a significant component of development finance now it's much smaller share still important but its role is being seen differently hence as minister emphasized yesterday private sector development is loomed very large in the current policy framework all the private sector development and engagement loomed very large as mentioned by Simon Cramp in the yesterday's plenary we now have strategies for both private sector engagement and private sector development the key principle for private sector engagement in the aid program is shared value basically that businesses can deliver sustainable social impact in developing countries while achieving at the same time robust commercial returns this concept moves beyond that corporate social responsibility approach that some private sector organizations still tend to focus on and we did hear a bit of that in yesterday's plenary as well let's talk about CSR as how how private sector might have a development impact market systems development can be applied in any sector but it's particularly relevant to the agriculture sector as so many poor people depend on agriculture for their livelihoods gender and women's economic empowerment are also a big focus of across all our programs including the market systems ones and of course all of our policy parameters now sit within the context of the sustainable development goal so that very quick overview of policy settings highlights a main major reason why we're paying increasing attention to market systems development as Owen said when we first started looking at these kinds of programs that policy cover wasn't there well it certainly is there now there these kinds of approaches are an excellent fit with our current policy priorities I thought someone else during the course of this session might already have put up this this this chart but it's basically a reminder of some of the key market systems development principles and I'm not going to go through it in in any detail but again as Owen said it does it has represented an ambitious departure from more traditional aid delivery and the key point of difference is using partnerships with businesses and and others as the entry point to economic reform and inclusive growth so rather than perhaps a more traditional aid project starting by identifying that something's wrong something's missing then go about fixing it or providing it maybe delivering training or capacity building for a government department or working at community level to identify and fund particular needs what sets market systems development apart really is the implementing teams are researching the market seeking out businesses other partners who with a little bit of support can actually themselves be then capable of providing goods and services in a way that's commercially viable for them in the long term this kind of program is is not without its challenges for for a donor of course and I want to alert it to some of those obviously as a government bilateral donor we have stringent responsibilities to manage public monies efficiently and effectively and achieve good value for money while of course demonstrating that aid program objectives such as poverty reduction are being met traditionally our main partners have been developing country governments and non-government organizations NGOs so it's only fairly recently that we've started making concerted efforts to engage directly with businesses but our market systems development programs now have a great deal of experience in identifying partners and negotiating deals with private enterprises and in fact our program in Indonesia produced quite a comprehensive guide on this topic and some of the the key principles around additionality for example public funds won't finance activities that a business or commercial financer would have financed by themselves without the intervention the principle of neutrality collaboration with DFAT isn't going to provide one business with a long-term unfair advantage over its competitors I guess another aspect is that donors funding these kinds of programs have to be prepared to accept a degree of risk at least at the level of individual partnerships so these kinds of programs typically develop a portfolio of partnerships and interventions well some will work better than others the whole portfolio one would hope will will overall show a reasonable degree of success so some things will be lower risk some will be higher risk some will deliver results quite quickly others more slowly but perhaps strategic steps in a bigger change so another another cycle here implementing a market systems development program I think this came out very strongly in what Muju was saying it's cyclical it's not it's not a linear process you you go through sort of setting strategic frameworks understanding market systems working out what you can possibly achieve trying to facilitate those sorts of changes and assessing those changes but it's it's a continuous sort of feedback loop so this has a number of of implications for for donors first of all that first question what exactly will be done and again I want to alert you to some of these issues before the program designs give a general idea of the kinds of interventions that are going to occur rather than a prescriptive blueprint of exactly what is going to be done and similarly defining what can reasonably be expected to be achieved only really become possible during implementation so that lack of clarity and certainty can be be a challenge and have of course this has of course required a rather more creative and flexible approach on the part of donors implementing them including ourselves to design and contracting and program management and so on when will we see real action well again as has been alluded to there's very heavy emphasis in this kind of program on the on the ground research and market analysis especially at the start of the program but also throughout it donor staff having to report to their managers about progress will likely start getting nervous about when some real action is going to start so understanding the process and allowing the program space to find its feet are essential whether specific interventions or sets of interventions will ultimately deliver systemic change at scale may not be evident until partnerships have been in place for some time so this sort of adaptive management approach of constantly assessing reassessing changing what you're doing does also require a willingness to adapt and be flexible on the part of the donor and finally as has already been alluded to the staffing requirements are quite significant in this so it's very important for the donor to have confidence that the progress information that the program is giving us is robust but even so market systems development programs require a high degree of patience and trust the trajectories in terms of delivering results can be quite different in this again with this sort of relatively slow analysis building up partnerships and so on it can take longer to get real results happening on the ground than with some other kinds of more direct intervention but we need rationales that they then last longer so with all these management challenges you might be wondering why donors including ourselves would would bother so we've talked about policy consistency you know our perspective now certainly is that ignoring the market realities on the ground just those kinds of programs don't work and certainly the ODE report alluded to that we think that these programs offer good prospects for sustainability for generating large-scale systemic change because of that they offer value for money and we are starting to see some promising results there another important aspect is the flexibility and adaptability of the approach it's not a one size fits all template it can be applied across a wide variety of local contexts so in terms of how it might get applied in this kind of approach in a particular country or local setting in all cases there are the general principles and approaches that one would apply in analysing markets and you know doing whatever is appropriate in terms of the whole system and the second point around analysing gender women's economic empowerment that would be done in across all the programs beyond that each program would be tailored to local circumstances both before and during implementation targeting sector selection particular priorities and identifying specific interventions and I've just got a few examples which highlight some of the some of the differences or some of the ways in which in which this is being applied for example in in Sri Lanka a middle income country but with quite a lot of geographic and ethnic diversity emerging from protracted conflict significant inequality tourism's been identified as the priority sector because of its economic potential it's being defined quite broadly in MDF to include related sectors like improving Sri Lankan made goods and digital capability both elements with a strong poverty alleviation potential there's also quite a major focus on supporting business in what's term lagging regions for example the fish cannery shown here which is providing significant new employment for women in a poor northern district completely different context and MDF also operates in Timor but this is to do with a a different program much much smaller market real issues with rural poverty inequality food insecurity and both under nutrition and micronutrient deficiency so nutrition's a major priority both for the government and therefore for the Australian aid program so this particular program which Tomak which just started up last year has a two-pronged approach there's what you might think of as the more traditional sort of market-oriented linking farming households and groups to markets and income generating opportunities and and then secondly establishing that sort of foundation for food security and good nutrition and these approaches and exactly what's applied in each case gets differentiated according to the particular different target groups and again strong gender and women's economic empowerment emphasis and finally in the Vietnam Highlands the program with the great acronym of great is still in the design process but it has three elements and what I just wanted to emphasize here is that this has a specific focus on improving sector governance and policy so we've talked a bit about the need to be engaging governments engaging on the policy side business enabling environment is element is very explicit in this particular Vietnam program more broadly a lot of the MSD programs do include business enabling environment reform or work alongside those kinds programs separately so in summary a good fit with our current aid priorities we think they've got a lot of strengths adaptability flexibility and abilities tailor for wide range of circumstances thank you thanks Julie I think that really showed the perspective of DFAT and how this looks on a bigger picture on to complement the perspective of the practitioners so let me invite all of our speakers up here we've got about 20-25 minutes for questions please keep your questions concise and we'll take a couple before we hand them over to the speakers use this on hi everyone thank you for that presentation that was really interesting my question I think could go to all of you but particularly the two practitioners we've heard a lot about the Pacific being a particularly unique context during this conference particularly the fact that it is a small private sector and markets are really thin I was wondering if you could comment specifically about how in all your work you deal with the fact that the Pacific unlike Asia does have a very thin market and how that affects your work on the ground is that on yeah thanks very much to everyone this again goes to most of the panel because of the systems nature of this work perhaps unlike some of other sectors programs I'm wondering about how you are managing integration with other activities so for example with the Pacific I'm wondering about how you'd link say with Pharma the Pacific horticulture and market access program or financial inclusion exercises or transport investments that might be made in PNG as a route to complement what you're doing how are you actually integrating with other investments that are made by Australia in particular but you know donors more generally and local governments investing in women as another example with the Vietnam program you just talked about with great when you talked about catalyzing change and you know we're not paying for these changes or delivering these changes directly but looking for partners to do so and being able to step back and let them do that so my question is actually for Muja I was just wondering if you could illustrate to us a little bit about how those partnerships come about how you negotiate them and just to sort of give us a few insights into that into that process and what the outcomes from those are okay we'll start with those three let's hear from our two practitioners first maybe addressing the Pacific and thin markets and then Muja also on the negotiating partnerships Mark would you like to start sure thank you yeah the Pacific is a unique challenging context but also presents a lot of opportunities so what we've done in World Vision to respond to that is actually to create a regional office that sits across the Pacific because we've realized that each of the offices in even in terms of accessing grants or doing programming are very small markets are very thin so there's ways in which we can collate that and help people aggregate their product work collectively and even at a regional level access larger grants we believe that will lead to systemic change I touched upon how there's as well as market systems as other interdependent system constraints particularly in the Pacific with tribal issues and one talk and a lack of trust and what we found helping people to increase their productive capacity was not enough they weren't willing to work together or sell together people were still jumping on the boat from the weather coast and the Solomon's heading to Honiara paying the $20 USD for that boat fee where are they working together to sell together and saving that money and so savings groups and financial literacy what we found is if people save together and access loans through those those savings groups they're a lot more willing to then sell together and that enables them to then access the market and sell at a at a more productive and higher level of quantity and private partners to a key so outspan agmark in P&G getting them to realize the opportunity and traveling and meeting the farmers and in their isolated locations has what's been key to engaging them I think I'll just build on that what's been really important for us is to have really strong local teams so in each of the Pacific context let's say in Fiji Team or P&G really did focus quite a lot of effort on on getting together the teams the local teams which who have research and analysis analysis skills or capacities to really try and get a sense of you know what context are we working at not just the economic context but also socio-cultural context so that's one bit so just just make sure that we do work through people who understand where we are and and how things do work out being flexible about partners I think that's been very very important for us in shallow markets I think in a previous panel we heard or session we heard that it's just entry points are difficult and so we've been quite careful about you know just doing the research and figuring out how to go about these entry points so it's been private sector partners it's been large businesses let's say when it comes to distribution or when it comes to large-scale manufacturing but it's also been smaller partners it's been non-private sector partners so government or or you know and in Fiji for example we're working with provincial authorities and in both Fiji and in PNG we're looking at let's say even unorthodox partners such as let's say faith-based groups who have some sort of a commercial operation in Timur we have a great example where we have a civil society organization who had a commercial enterprise social enterprise around making efficient cook stoves we have been able to work through them and introduce this new new design extensively into the into the markets and I guess the other bit also is that you know we've had to you know as part of our research we've also had to look at is there examples of best practices within the country so on distribution let's say or just around manufacturing in general even importing if you're going to import so you know how to go about importing the best materials for hardware now can you do that for agriculture or do that for something else and also just working through smaller partners and helping them through some of the risk sharing with so let's say you know helping them set up co-invest infrastructure let's say co-storage situations and I'll just okay sorry there's a lot of stuff in there but yeah negotiating partnerships now that also has been has been tricky you know the big businesses you can go to them and you have to be really really like you have to just not say anything not you have to do away with the development jargon altogether and recently we had a situation where one of the largest food processors in Fiji stopped the meeting halfway and said well you're talking all this stuff about you know commercial contracts and all of this stuff but what do you really want do you want my money do you want profits so I think negotiating with bigger partners we have had to be very very clear well bigger and smaller partners we have to be very very clear that we are investors we are co-investors in your business we are partners we also then just like any other normal partner we want things out of this partnership and these are non-financial things we don't want a position in the company we don't want shares but we do want development outcomes so you want a particular business product or service introduced into the market so it's just been important during negotiations to be very very clear with smaller partners I think it is worthwhile spending a lot of time going through the business model so explaining who we are of course we're not Mr. Moneybags or we're not you know just in an ATM machine or you know you run into problems and you come to us and we give you money so it is worthwhile talking to them about who we are but it's also important to talk through the business model itself all aspects of it revenue streams how are you going to manage this do you have the capacity etc and it's also important to just take through this so let's say in our contracts we have this section on deliverables so we're going to invest money and seek your investment in particular things so breaking it down and also being very clear about information getting information from them and how how it's useful for them but also how it's useful for us so overall just when you're negotiating being very clear about your position being very clear about the business case and being very clear about at the end of the day how are you going to make this sustainable or how are you going to make money supplement yeah I really like that comment about sort of take the money off the table because that's a a terrible start to any relationship is having a discussion around money just two quick quick examples you talk about thin markets in the Pacific but something which I know MDF has done and also we've done with not with DFAT but with other people in remote parts of Indonesia is what we call take a whole of supply chain approach and you sort of first blush you sort of see here's a potential area for an intervention here's where there's lots of potential for change but actually it's very difficult to get the change going there so actually looking all the way along the supply chain looking at the financiers who are providing money into that supply chain just sort of broadens the the opportunities for intervening because they're often quite few and far between in thin markets and then just quickly Louisa you talked about linking with other programs and the like and I think a nice I mean a nice true story is some of this work the Prisma work we've done in in Indonesia that's had a really catalytic effect actually on the rest of the embassy and has got the senior managers interested in well actually how can we share some of these principles and imbibe these into the education portfolio the health portfolio and get some discussions going inside DFAT so that's had a really positive positive story and also I mean just one of the interventions it's actually it's really deep in the partnership with the government of Indonesia the quick story is maize in Madura really funny little place which is resistant to change and companies have tried to be getting been trying to get in there to bring introduce hybrid seeds because the maize cobs are just incredibly pathetic in Madura and the yield potential is fine the government continues has provided this subsidy program of free seed to ostensibly poor farmers but there the short story is that by working with a sort of a small and medium enterprise who had already established a maize processing plant and really had to get supply up they were much more willing to sort of innovate and sort of explore different ways of dealing with these farmers and breaking into their mindsets etc and through that we've that company has really started to promote its own seed massively transform yields for for poor farmers and actually it's crowded in some of the big players Bayer, Sinjenta are now coming back and having another look but what's what's most interesting is the relationship with the government program you know initially the companies were saying well look this the government is completely mis-targeting its program it's it's giving free seed to all the farmers that we're trying to target we're just going to walk away actually through the transformation of what's happened with these companies there's now a really healthy dialogue and actually it's it's helped by the grow Asia forum this agro it's called in Indonesia whether the government is now leaning on the companies to say look you you target these markets and you help us to target this free seed because it still has to be done it's a government program help us to target that that to the most appropriate places so it's been a really nice you know slightly unusual partnership that's come out of that work sorry sure sure I mean just just very briefly one example I mentioned Tomak in in Teemor where MDF is also and was already operating so in considering how Tomak would operate part of its operating principle is that it would integrate very closely with work very closely with with MDF and that they would do joint I believe they're doing some joint analyses and this sort of thing at its the early stages of Tomak I just also wanted to mention one one very minor thing on the the Pacific and the thin markets I mean we still go into meetings even now and hear people saying that oh well there's not really any private sector in the Pacific so you know we don't you know there's really nothing we can do that involves private sector in the Pacific I think we have enough evidence through a number of things that we're doing well okay you know there are a lot of challenges a lot of constraints to the private sector operating in the Pacific but there are markets and most people are engaged in markets in some way just to add my own perspective on working in the Pacific in market systems development and just to contrast it with Asia market systems development is often around crowding in it's addressing maybe one aspect of a market and then getting lots of other actors to do similar things but in the Pacific I've seen that we need to have a lot more focus on the different support markets you saw that diagram that that Julie had as a doughnut and Mujia has a whole bunch of linkages with different bits of it and in the Pacific because they're weak markets we can't assume that all those different markets like transport and logistics exist so we often have to do more work to to intervene in lots of different places in a market system whereas sometimes in Asia you may have to do some of that but it's less less points you have to hit to get the market systems to take off and develop so that's been an interesting lesson for me in the Pacific okay let's take a couple more questions let's go one, two and then three just wondered if there's any engagement in MSD with fostering business leadership or encouraging individuals to have more experience with business especially in the Pacific raise your hands again those other two people yes I I gave a presentation yesterday about the importance of measuring and reporting outcomes and so naturally I'm going to ask a question about that today I think MSD's been going for about 10 years or so in terms of some of these major projects and I I just wonder what the evidence base is that these projects actually work and by work I mean meet the expectations that that donors and implementation partners had I think it's expectations in terms of where the project expected to be at by the time the project finished once the assistance has stopped to some of these companies so goes to that issue of sustainability but I think also expectations around the flow and effect in terms of the system change and being able to come back in say say two or three years to see well to what extent has that change occurred because I think that's a very big factor in terms of the value for money argument as to why donors should be putting more money into this area great let's take last one up here thanks very much fascinating panel my question is actually quite similar to the previous question and I guess it speaks to sort of what what next for MSD what evidence is there out there that we are changing the way business is done by government and by other players and is that where we should be pushing this sector I mean ultimately in 10 or 15 years do we want do we want the approaches that market systems development programs have have developed to to transform the way governments implement their programs to achieve what are essentially fairly similar objectives that it's it's really in the way that it's done that the MSD is special and has been different and again touching on the the previous question what what evidence is there so far that that we're that we're achieving what we expected and generating demand great I'm going to take the chairs prerogative and start with the one on evidence I think partly because market systems development programs when they first started out were actually subject to quite a lot of concern about whether that was actually going to reduce poverty whether it was really going to be a useful approach perhaps less so than the than health and education which I think is more intuitively obvious that we that's a poverty reducing effect so many of these programs are very well studied through internal systems as well as external evaluation and looking at your presentation yesterday Neil thinking about looking at the outcomes and the impacts I would say at the outcomes level we're talking about that actual market system change are we seeing businesses operating differently are we seeing the networks around market systems develop differently are we seeing poor people you know getting access to products and services and being able to integrate at markets differently and there is a big evidence based around that for the programs we have represented up here but indeed in fact all around the world and the best place to look for those if you want to get more information is the donor committee for enterprise development website that has a whole section on evidence where you can get a lot of that information and then indeed we actually have information it impacts as well there was a couple of numbers quoted here but I think most market systems development programs recognize that it's not enough to just work on the level of market systems and assume that poor people are benefiting but actually go to the level of measuring those incomes and indeed further than that to look at gender outcomes and and other you know aspects of how that integration is happening but you raised I think a couple of important questions that I want to address the first is about sustainability in terms of individual partnerships we have quite a lot of information about whether those partnerships continue after a particular intervention is finished because a program finishes a partnership and there's still time left in the program so oftentimes a partnership lasts a year or 18 months or something like that and then it's continued to be monitored for one or two business cycles or a couple of years after that to see how it's going but what we don't have for market systems development is that data after the whole program ends that we go back or we continue to monitor that after the program is closed to see how those market systems continue to develop so this is my soapbox plea to the donors to say continue to monitor your programs for a couple of years after they're closed to see what's actually happening and that's be great in in any program let me hand it over to others for for other aspects of these fostering business leadership any other additional thoughts on on the evidence and what's next for MSD just quickly as well as the DCD also the beam exchange has some great Difford funded has some great evidence there just on the following up and doing an evaluation post program in flores in NTT Indonesia we're working with cashew farmers there very small holder focused it was our initial value chain development project done I think it started almost 10 years ago but we went there three years afterwards to do an SROI report when that was quite sexy back in the day and the great thing was that they were still the small holder farmers were still engaging with the markets and still benefiting even though there'd been market fluctuations there'd been changes in in the quantities required even the way they're graded the farmers had that knowledge and skills and the confidence to engage with these other market actors to be able to respond appropriately and still benefit from those markets and now on the back of that the same staff who worked on that project are working for World Vision on the Prisma project which is working directly with cashew farmers so it goes back to your point Louisa Hi a sneaky sneaky exit sorry about that and so yeah it's great to see that these things do do continue to sort of happen after the programs ended and we've left and that's ultimately what we're all about in terms of sustainability meeting donor expectations has been a big one with this approach when you saw that graph I think that Julie put up where the returns or the outcomes can be quite delayed compared to a health or a nutrition program and so even internally in World Vision and then with our major donors it's been an educational process to explain how this systemic change takes time but ultimately it will happen and we believe it will and the evidence demonstrates that and for us it's just noticing that significant changing behaviour of the farmers and being able to respond to market fluctuations yeah I guess on sorry I have to say something about evidence also it's just we do publish an animal results report for MDF and it's up on our website themarketdevelopingfacility.org and I guess in terms of monitoring changes for each partnership we do go by partnership results chains which help us to monitor all levels from activity all the way up in case of Fiji the different partnerships that I did put up it's been going on I mean that building a portfolio has been going on for six years now and a lot of these partners let's say did get up at the start of around 2011 and it's really good to see that they're still operating they're still and they're doing new things our nursery partners started off selling a few seedlings to horticulture exporters export oriented farmers but now he's also selling variety packs so that it can target different types of farmers did it on his own he has also started off his one line of business is also on responding to disasters so he doesn't necessarily wait for government orders to come through once a flood hits he has a way to now just come back to business very quickly after disaster and then also open up for business and cater to farmers who would need something like that but anyways it's more of that stuff is up on our website on the business leadership side of course we do across our programs in the Pacific let's say and this kind of working with smaller businesses or the real innovators or people who are putting in new products and new services in the market it's really important to highlight their work in order to foster other people coming in investing into these spaces finding new niches and then investing in them so I guess what we are we're trying to foster business leadership in a couple of ways firstly we are trying to get these smaller businesses the business partners that we work with to let's say engage other stakeholders in the environment the government or et cetera on specific issues let's say and you know the ability to formulate your case to get together evidence to have this kind of conversation that goes a long way towards getting them more self-confidence and then start addressing different type or asking questions about different issues in there we've also in Fiji recently started this initiative or it's called the Fiji Enterprise Engine it's a Fiji context specific business incubation system we are where we are doing a blended approach to in-class train in-class room training for small businesses on let's say financial management or HR or market or product development et cetera but we also have a component which is our the trainers go to the businesses and help solve business problems on a day-to-day basis now what we do as part of this incubation process is we do invite other smaller businesses to speak to this group of people who are going through this incubation system we're trying to highlight that there are lots of other ideas floating around and some of them have actually invested and and there are out in the market and you know so we are trying to foster a conversation between some of these risk takers and pioneers with this group of SMEs we hope to take this more but again I guess the main purpose is to promote business leaders and to promote or stimulate more investors and more people to come into this okay sure just very quickly I just wanted to be even more robust than Ali was just on the results thing I mean I've been in development all my long life and I honestly would say hand on heart that the all the MSD programs certainly the DFAT funds and I think around the world they are monitored and measured far more intensely than I've I've seen anything that they're monitored and measured better than many businesses monitored their own business and that goes you know right across the board and they're monitored to a stand to a standard that Ali referred to which is actually auditable so it's a very clear very transparent very open thing just quickly also on donor expectations I think it's really nice that we're having this conversation here and to have Julie being making such an empathetic presentation to have more people in DFAT who understand that you can't have results on day one or week one or whatever and things take time and we understand adaptive management we can't it's naive to say we'll do this on Monday and this on Tuesday and by Friday you'll have a turkey pie sort of thing it's just not how the world works it's not how sustainable change happens and just quickly on sorry the really hard question I think from Tristan which everyone's avoiding I think it's a really I think it's a really nuggety issue I think and I debate I've debated a lot with Ali and colleagues around the world about what is the end game where does it where should it all go and short answers I don't really know I think what where we've seen success and where things have been good it's always great to see the staff from MSD programs spinning off and actually becoming commercial consultants where they provide these kinds of services to businesses often and sometimes to other groups I agree with you though there's something deep inside me which says actually this is really a role that government should a really good government should be playing the Australian government should be playing and I think actually Australian government does play this little way and so does the UK government which I'm a bit familiar with they're starting to play this kind of a game and play this facilitator also to support things and this whole shared value concept you know governments have got to get involved in that as well so that's a very fudgy answer to a really quite difficult question but Ali will give us or Julie will give us the real answer I really just wanted to pick up on on a couple of things that are also relevant to Tristan's question but also going back to Louise's which is that sort of linkage with some of the other programs such as Grow Asia for example which is a sort of multi-stakeholder forum to use development jargon but you know it brings together governments and the private sector and civil society for example as Tristan knows knows well which is a chance to sort of take some of those lessons from what's going on on the ground on some of these market systems development programs and sort of try and you know inject that more more broadly and certainly in Indonesia there are very close linkages between Prisma for example and and the the local partnership under Grow Asia there and also just one other example we're now just starting we're in the design process for what's called the emerging markets impact investment fund which is going to be targeting small to medium enterprises that may be having trouble accessing finance so it's we're also looking at okay how might that link say to MDF you have a good partnership through something like MDF or Prisma or one of these other market systems programs the business sort of says okay that was great I'm sort of you know on my feet now that partnership comes to an end but maybe they're not quite there in terms of being able to go to a to a commercial bank and and get alone but they might be a good target for an impact investment fund so we're also looking at the linkages that can take that sort of thing up to the next level just to close on Tristan's question there's actually been quite a lot of work then and I think the first place to look is actually at the sector level who is actually driving the sector now and I don't think we should make any assumptions about that as we don't make assumptions about anything else we do see private companies sometimes taking a system's perspective that's in their interest to drive a whole industry we see sometimes associations and sometimes government and there's been quite a lot of work done and I think more needs to be done about who can take on this role or who is taking on this role and what are the different incentives around driving entire industries forward and we can apply the shared value concept to that driving it forward not only for growth but for inclusive growth so thank you so much to our speakers we've got a very passionate group up here I hope you appreciate that they've shared their wisdom with you but also tried to convey some of the passion with which they go about inclusive growth we look forward to looking with you all in the future thank you