 All right, let's call the meeting to order. First up is public comment. This is for anything that's not currently on the agenda. Not there. I think we got Betsy, I saw out there. Can I start? Yep. Nope, you're it. Okay. Well, I was hoping that we would be on the agenda. I was on last month on public comments, hoping that we would asking to be on the agenda. Because what we want to share is going to take way more than three minutes. We have to know the committee needs to know if this is a priority to the town. And is the town going to commit any hours to help with project management. We have, it was brought up that there might need to be more parking. And as I said last month, we have found two, we've talked to two owners. One is indeed would talk with the town. We don't know what the process is after we get that information. We can give you the information and you can talk to them. We don't know what the next step is. We need a lot more guidance through the town. We don't know if we need more parking. It sounds like we do, but they never used to have to have any extra parking and other towns on state roads. Tumbridge as an example doesn't have, they park along the street when they, you know what it's like at Tumbridge Fair for crying out loud. They park along the street when they, when they have any big events at their town hall and their church. A street meaning Route 110. We did have a meeting, a couple of us with Trini and discussed the idea of hiring the next architect slash structural engineer for the next phase that would come up with construction documents. That's something that maybe this committee could work on. But again, without the town giving some sort of, having a project manager or somebody helping with guidance specifically, we do not want to put a lot of volunteer energy into something that's going to be not felt like it's worthwhile. One of the other things we wanted to discuss with you was there were a lot of things that Redloaf had on the, their proposals or there were a lot of options there that took it up into the million dollar and then $2 million bracket. And we have looked at it a little bit more closely and feel that there's some paring down, quite a bit of paring down we can do to perhaps make it at least less than a million and still have it usable. But again, we really need a project manager from the town. We're a great committee, we want to help. We just need someone who's got more skills to guide us in context or maybe the town doesn't want to do anything with the building. And if that's so, it would be really nice to know now before we put in a whole lot more volunteer time. So again, we're requesting to be on the agenda so that we can have a discussion with you about this. So Betsy, this afternoon you talked about creating a smaller working group to figure out kind of what you're really after and what the definition is and where this building, how do you get this building into the priority ranking for where the town invests money? When we talk money, it's more than just dollars, it's labor hours, there's a whole array of resources the town has. So we don't have a project manager sitting here waiting for the next project to come through the door. We would have to be taking somebody off something they're doing now to put hours onto that. So how do you get into the queue, so to speak, to figure out where this project ranks with others when it comes to the limited resources we have in the town? And I think there needs to be a little more understanding about kind of what the roles and responsibilities are, what that looks like, what the, before it's ready for the, I don't know that this is ready for the board to say, yes, this is something we want to commit to and this is what we want to do and this is the direction we want to go because it feels like we are getting kind of a mishmash of stuff that isn't sorted out into that format. You're right, Trini. If there could be a one or two representatives from the town who are paid and one or two representatives from this group that are unpaid meet and have a long that means and put together a preliminary plan that will always have need massaging, of course. That first meeting might be a couple of different meetings and then I would think monthly, an hour or two monthly might be what you're looking at. I mean, I'm pretty, well, it would change. It wouldn't be exactly that. Some months would be an hour, another month might be three hours of somebody's time. It depends on what phase everything's at. I'm not sure I agree with that. I think you got to get through the first hurdle of what is this project? What are the roles and responsibilities that you're asking the town and is it something the town wants to take on to begin with? I think you got to get over that hurdle first. So, and I don't think that's a one or two to three hours a month. I think that's a time commitment, sitting down to figure out kind of what it is where the responsibility for each thing lies and how that might look. I mean, there's many models you can use to take this on, but I don't think this is as well thought out yet to a point where I would feel comfortable saying, yeah, let's dive into this because I don't think we know what we're diving into. Well, I sure don't. I had no idea parking would be a problem or anything like that. And I had no idea there were all these three phases to architectural things and yeah. And it doesn't have, it can be a two-year project. It doesn't have to be that we're ready by this spring to go out to bid. That was my magic wand, but. So, do you want to make this an agenda item somewhere in the near future? Do you, what do you want to do with all of this? And we have discussed, by the way, one of the pieces I didn't share and I was sharing with Trini this afternoon was, we have discussed what the building could be in the future. We have several lists and we talked about marketing and there are so many things that could be going on with that building that never happened in the past. There's, it can be an educational center where there's all kinds of training going on from health to arts and crafts to. So Betsy, I don't want to shut you down but the topic we need to just stop with is. We're done, okay. You know, we'll talk and figure out if we have, you know, what we do with that. All right, so what do you want us to do next? I would say, I think it's an agenda item to kind of clarify a little bit more about this because, you know, when this originally started, it was, we need to get the building fixed up so we can get to use the building again because it isn't up to code. You know, now it's turned into a two and a half million dollar resurrection here and I'm not quite sure or wherever it was. I mean, there was numbers floating all over the place from one and a half to two and a half million and raising the building and, you know, that's way beyond the scope of what I think needs to happen. I mean, that could be a longer-term plan but you've got to somehow figure out how to get the building into a functional state and that's kind of where we got to figure out the uses and how that all fits into the scope of what the town's needs are. So do you want to add an item to the agenda, Jay, to talk about? I think you need to do that. How to define it, okay. And from that we might be able to get to this potential working group. Do we have anybody else from, we're going to add this as an agenda item tonight, Betsy. Do we have any other public comment? Yes. I'm here for public comment. Are you public comment or you're on the agenda? Am I? Yeah, you are. Oh, okay. Then am I. You're good. Okay. Not seeing any approval of the agenda. Do we have anything else to add? So it would just be as amended if you're adding that and then where you'd want to put that particular one. It's item J, five J. The only question I would have about adding it to the agenda tonight is do we have enough information beyond what we've already just heard from Betsy to add it to the agenda? I think the only action item for us to discuss tonight is if we want to commit resources to sitting down and figuring out roles and responsibilities and what this even looks like. What this beast is, you know. I think that's tonight's topic. We don't have anywhere near enough to say we're all in. I just wanted to be clear about what we were adding. Thanks. Yeah. So we have approval of the agenda. Need a motion and second as amended. If you're. So I'm kind. We'll adopt the agenda as amended. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Consent calendar meeting minutes and warrant. So here. I'm ready to move to approve the consent calendar. Opposed in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. New business. We have a consider excavator and truck purchase. One of the original ideas when we started talking about adding this to the agenda was playing off of that conversation from the last April where we had asked and you had granted a request to try and pursue a purchase of a used excavator that reportedly had low hours on it. That purchase process was fraught and that machine turned out to have significantly more hours than were originally conveyed. It forced us to scramble a little bit throughout the summer. We ended up renting a unit for around month three now that we rented an excavator in some fashion. We've been able to knock off projects such as North Randolph Road, the Howard Hill Grants and Aid Project, the culvert up on Holly Hawk and some others. So we've certainly gotten our time out of it. One of the conversations that's sort of evolved even from when we put this on the agenda is an idea to maybe take a step back from this spot, consider what it would look like if we continued and maybe beefed up our rental program in terms of the excavator plan projects around that rental window. And I looked at how to maybe both in this fiscal year and then in planning for the next one meet some of the other equipment needs that are out there as well. So it's really about seeking blessing for this exploration and trying to figure out, for example, the things that fall in there. Pickup truck we were thinking about was replacing like for like. There's some merit in going with a larger one that can carry crew members more comfortably. A little bit heavier duty has a little more functionality when it comes to helping with winter maintenance and other activities. And then also the rollers from 1983. I was gonna say four, I was had a younger than I was. We've continued to have pump issues. That piece of equipment has been really vital in some of the pot hole repairing program. And when it's down, it really hampers if not stops that effort. The loader is now, that was how it was in 1998. It's got 19,000 hours. So that's aged. That's the Methuselah of loaders there. It's on the far end of the spectrum. So some of it's about trying to figure out how these different pieces fit together. Maybe coming back to you if you're open to that sort of exploration, looking to replace some of those in a different order. We've had them envisioned at different points and different variations of the capital program for years. But they're either on the cusp of concern or like the roller that we've experienced that. And we think we can solve the excavator need in a different way. And it's also mindful of the available resources now. That's a long way of saying, I think we're still trying to shape exactly what it is because we've got more needs than this. So is there a way we can essentially trade two for four? Say, it's an easy way to think about it. That's the basic introduction to that topic. And then John's here and can talk to you more about each piece of these things and how they fit together. And it gives us a little more time to think about financing options. We've been focused on use of those capital reserves, but some of these might lend themselves to lease to own type programs which we've used for stuff before. They're straight up leasing options. You enter a multi, much like you would with an automobile. At the end of it, we turn it in and lease a brand new one. It gets you out of some of those R&M type costs. And so some of it lets us, certainly I think more with the loader, maybe the roller in terms of those. The truck would probably still be a straight reserve fund and purchase. We have a rough idea. That was the quote from today with trade-in. We think we get about $11,000. This is for the Silverado that's about seven years old that I just used primarily by the superintendent, but it could be traded for something larger with a little more functionality is the idea. So it's an evolving process, but wanted to make sure we're having that conversation because the dollars can get pretty hefty pretty quickly. That's another way of leasing the excavator. That is, you can charge that off to grants. I just wanted to get the grants to do culverts and to do ditching. We can charge that lease right off to that. So Howard Hill. We're gonna use it to do some other stuff later. Howard Hill, for example, will be charged off to a grant. North Randolph went to the stormwater reserve as a water quality project. The rest of the rental hits the equipment line. So we're also able to spread that cost out. Spread it out so it doesn't hit the unspaw. I think it makes sense to take a step back and look at both the roller and the loader. Well, the loader is very buggy. I mean, we have loader in each garage and if one loader goes down, we're in trouble. And I mean, perfect example is the truck that we're trading in the 10-wheeler. That's a 2013. Last week we were using it because we had to. The truck died. And we had to get it towed down to the dealer. And of course, in order to trade it in, it has to be running. And I just, almost $10,000 for a whole new fuel system just to make the truck run so we can trade it in. And it's like, so what happens if that's our loader? We have an excavator sitting at the barn that can't do nothing, but we're out of loader. So then the roller, the same deal. All summer long, the manufacturer has dealt with us. And I mean, they've gone through three brand new pumps that they sent us. If we put five hours on it one time, it blew three hours the next. Now they're, they've took full responsibility in their rebuilding it, but still it comes with the fact that it's downtime and weak. I can't make the guys that I have. I mean, we're short-handed as it is, but I can't make them hand tamp a ton of asphalt. That's just, in gold patch, you can't get it right now. So it's just like, our hands are tied to a certain aspect. And it's just like, we've got to look at this at a better for us in the future. I think a new roller, we could use it for doing culverts and good compaction in the roads when we're changing the culverts or like we did on North Randolph, you know, so. You're talking a very big one here, like the one ton or something? Yeah, it's like a 3.5, it's pretty much the same size as what we have now. It's just got more, it's got the dual vibratory drums. Vibratory drums. Yeah. I didn't make sense to upgrade that truck while you're at it too. Especially if you got to move some of this stuff around. You don't have to tie up the dump truck. So you wanted to have this blessing to come back with a plan on how you can make all that stuff work. You're okay with this. Altering that route a little bit for what is hopefully sort of better, broader, short and long term outcomes. How do we do it at least, so. I mean, ours is growing exteriors. You've got a curiosity. You've got about a hundred, no. Yeah, just under 200 hours. On both of them? On the cat. You had a demo one of the cat one? Yeah. And you had a demo one for what, a couple weeks? Yep. And we put almost 80 on that, you know, I'm sorry. Yeah. And it was good. I mean, we've gotten, you know, the big projects that we wanted, we still have a few more before the big excavator leaves, but, you know, for the three months that we've had it, I think we've accomplished a lot of work, you know. Unfortunately, you know, majority of the guys are in one spot just because it's a big project, but it's something that needed to be done. So, go drink it up. You are blessed. You're right. Consider accepting grants for Kimball Library. So Amy hop on earlier, so she's here, and you can explain, these are a couple that you've authorized the application for that have come back around to be, to be granted. Good news. This was a 50,000 and a 24,000 in change with the match being made by the library trustees. Yep. Anybody have any questions on those? It was a pretty good week that week. Yeah. 35, right? Yeah. Any motions to accept them? Move that we accept both grants. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. That was easy. Thanks, Amy. So thanks a lot, folks. Take care. Consider an invitation to join Ideal. So this is a new program run through the states. The Executive Director of Racial Equity is the point person on this and is listed on the communications. It's a state initiative that involves partners such as the League of Cities and Towns. I think Rural Development and Community Foundation are also in the mix. This is additional or new depending on where you're at in the process. Diversity, equity, and inclusion work. We'd be part of the inaugural cohort, the initial class. We've been invited with some others as a community that has adopted a declaration of inclusion. We did that close to a year and a half ago now. That was pretty close to when I started. So do remember that one. We haven't touched on September 12th to consider joining. It doesn't look like there's anything involved from us other than some time in sweat equity. We'll be eligible up for small grants for implementation. So in the flyer that's in there, see if I can find the page where they've listed it. So that there are different, it's the access to grant funding. There are different workshops, technical assistance and data sharing, and they list some of the ideas in addition to sort of a general education improvement type of effort. There are help with different policies, different equity efforts, policing, so we'd be working with partners with that. So any sort of planning, strategy, and other data work. So we get to be a member. I haven't seen exactly who's signed up yet, although I know that there's been certainly some interest in a number of quarters. So it's important work and it's the kind of thing that I've been around for a long time, but this is not anything that I could replicate for you. Take somebody who knows it and folks with lived experience and. Sounds like this is really good partners. Yeah. Of course you're adding this too. It starts on October 26th. Thanks, John. Thank you. When you say it starts on October 26th, looking with what? I think it's. I think it gets a sense of what the structure of it is. Yeah, I think they're gonna bring everybody together and then they'll review the structure. I imagine at that point they'll lay out kind of what the curriculum's gonna be. I guess for lack of a better. Here's how we'll move through these pieces. It is the curriculum targeting select board members or I think it's local and staff or. Yeah, it's sort of broadly defined in the materials as municipalities. I think they're looking at local officials, both elected, appointed, volunteer. I think the idea is to start sort of with the leadership groups and figure out if there's a way to kind of broaden access and or incorporate anything that comes out of that into those broader activities. It's a, this was a new program and a new experience for me. So in terms of sort of fully understanding how we'll ride the river. That's a little hard to say. Any questions, thoughts? Motions? I accept the invitation to join the ideal initiative. For a second. All those in favor? Aye. I'll move the sheet from the post. Motion carries. Next up is a sign permit appeal by Justin Bluel. See you later. So Mark is here as well and thought we'd handle it like we handled some of the other semi formal processes we do have the backgrounder and the process stuff. And then you can talk to Justin about the request and the appeal and have a general conversation. If that makes some sense, turn that over to that. And so Mark is on here. And run you through the conversations they had in the process to get us to this moment. And you are the body listed in the sign ordinance to hear the appeals. So. Sure, go ahead Mark. Okay. Once again, my name is Mark. I serve as a sign officer. Also zoning administrator and economic development director for the town. My role as the sign officer is to administer and enforce the provisions of the sign ordinance. So just a brief description of this appeal. On August 25th, Mr. Poulin, Justin Poulin completed an application for a sign application for a temporary sign. And that sign was going to be placed on the splitter island in town at the intersection of 12 and 12A. On August 30th, I sent Mr. Poulin a denial letter based on section 207 of the ordinance. Would it be simple? Would it be helpful if I read that? Or do we all have copies of that? Do we know what that is? Maybe just a quick bullet, what the two sections are. One that prohibits signs on the splitter island and the other has a size requirement. Shall not exceed three square feet, so. So on the 30th, Mr. Poulin was issued that denial letter. And then on a few days later, he filed an appeal and he believes that he's not considered an ongoing concern or entity, which is part of number two of that section 207. And he also believes that he's, so he believes he's not an ongoing commercial entity or an established business. And he cited BSA 24 and Act 143, which he believes he's exempt from because he's a farm operation. So I provided him with the, an understanding of what his rights are for appeal and that sort of thing. And that's why, that's why we heard tonight. Can I just say something? Just, I guess that's all of it, Mark, that you have. Yes, I can answer any other questions, but that's the gist of it, yes. You look up these two citations. These two citations I have looked up and, but I'm not, I'm certainly not, I'm not a professional in terms of understanding what these are, but my belief is that if you're, if you're in business, Mr. Poolin has a, not only an ice cream operation, which is fantastic, my wife and I have been there, you know, the, but you're an ongoing business entity and you're a commercial enterprise. I do understand that there are certain exemptions for farming and, but I, it just does not, I don't feel like this fits within that parameter. So, you know, the town was very clear in the sign ordinance that they frown on having it really much in this area. And of all the details in the sign ordinance that are somewhat broad, it's very specific in the ordinance about 12 and 12A, the splitter island. So I can understand Mr. Poolin's point of view. I understand that it's a, it's a great place to, to stick a sandwich board or something like that, but it just doesn't, it doesn't work. It's not in the ordinance. And, you know, my job is to enforce that. So, but I am happy to, to talk with them about other ideas to help them with his business. But in terms of being the sign officer, it's very clear what's in the ordinance and this doesn't pass muster. And just to be clear, the sign ordinance is a totally separate ordinance from zoning. Their past is two separate pieces. We just have the same person in course. Correct. Yeah, one is through this section related of title 24 is the whole municipal section of statute. So your zoning authority is in there. It's own separate category. Sign regulation is under our general regulatory powers. So much like when we consider traffic and other ordinances, it's that broad set of powers given to us to regulate various things through ordinances primarily. Any other questions on that side of it? Okay. I'll look at your comment. Nope, not yet. It's your turn to answer. Stand at the microphone. It's just picking you up for the, everything will pick you up from right there. Okay. So I'm a little confused because I had asked to address the select board on a different reason and not a different reason, but a reason related to this. I'm getting the feeling that this is the actual appeal. And that's not what I came prepared for because I thought I would, I just turned my appeal in the other day and I thought I would get notice of when that appeal would be. So I didn't come here tonight to prepare for an actual appeal process. I came here for a different reason and I thought I made that clear to Mark when I had asked to be placed on the agenda. So I'm not prepared for the official appeal process. I mean, I could probably add lib, but that's not why I'm here tonight. So without going into what it is, can you give me just like a one sentence of what you thought you were gonna be on the agenda for? I would like to talk about the zoning ordinance itself and possibly doing the sign ordinance and possibly a consideration of amending that ordinance. So amending the ordinance is done by the planning commission. Okay, but it's, so that is fine. And I'm not expecting an amendment to happen tonight, but I would feel that it would, if I bring up the issues that I feel should be amended that the select board could then turn that over to the zoning of the planning commission who could then come back with the recommendations of the select board. Or not, they could consider the request and hold the ordinance. The select board has authority in my understanding. I'm aware of the authority they have. Yes, I'm there. To change ordinance. I'm aware of that. Thank you. So that's why I'm going to the select board. Gotcha. All right. Because I could go to the planning commission and they can just throw it out and not even go anywhere with it. That's why I feel that I would like to approach the select board and get the select board's support or not and go from there. The problem I have with the zoning, the sign ordinance, it was amended July 9th of 2020 and the opportunity for public input at that time was very limited, if not limited totally. Because it was during COVID and there was no public meetings and nobody was really participating in anything. So the opportunity to weigh in at that time was very limited. About the changes were pretty limited too, weren't they? Yeah, the changes were, but this particular subject here that Justin's addressing, in my opinion, is now blossomed, okay, and it's been going on. I'm not really sure that the triangle's not the only part of it, but I think is the problem. But if you drive around here, you'll see a blueberry farm up the road here, bear farm, bear over here. All these different signs that are showing up at the ends of these dirt roads that are illegal signs, okay, because they're not on their property. And some of them are sandwich boards, some of them are like a wire post thing, like a political sign. So those are all showing up and I do think that, you know, I think we ought to kick this back to the Planning Commission and see if we can figure out how to fix that problem because I don't see it going away, but what I do see it doing is ticking off a lot of people who are in these rural agricultural areas and they're doing these different things, you know, creamies, woods are selling creamies, siloways are selling creamies, Justin's selling creamies, you know, woods have got something at the bottom, a Hevert Hill, you know, I just think that we need to address this. And I don't think we really took care of it when we presented it to the select board to be adopted because I think Justin said it was it was a pretty limited conversation. And it wasn't a lot of public input. I think we were after content in that one. That's part of the whole thing was the way some of our sentences were free. Well, there was a court ruling about signs that you couldn't, a lot of, you couldn't discriminate a lot of conversation about that. Where, you know, somebody wanted to put a sign up that had to be content-neutral and all these different things. And that was the focus on why that got changed because our sign norms was pretty outdated. This kind of stuff was discussed, but not thoroughly. And there's a lot of these signs out there, you know, you've all seen them. They're part of it. They're only gonna get more over the next couple of months. It's all the political ones joined in with it. Well, political ones were addressed, but, you know, things for, you know, you look at these little businesses that we're trying to encourage here, you know, these rural enterprises. And, you know, when it comes to mine is, you know, look at the work we had to do to try to get the wine situation squared away. I mean, we put a lot of effort into trying to get that to fit. And, you know, he's got a sign at the bottom of his hill. It's a legal sign, not legal sign. That could be debated. So I think we need to go back and look at this. So. And I did bring, I mean, I brought a handout for you that of some ideas that I would like to present to you if it's appropriate. And then you could, but it's. It's not on the agenda. Right. So what we can do is, we can send you to the planning commission to have the conversation. Well, I'd like to leave these on the table and you can pick them up and look at it. Sure. Yeah. But that's why, and if I have to be asked to come back on the agenda, I would like to do that. But that's what I originally thought this was for tonight. So, because the conversation Mark and I had probably about two and a half weeks ago before I submitted my appeal, that's when I had asked to be placed on the agenda. And I guess it just morphed into something a little bit different. Yeah. You're welcome to leave those for the board to look at. And we'll also toss this to the planning commission so they can. So should I officially request to be placed on the agenda again to talk about this and more depth or before it goes to the planning commission or? No, I think it goes to the planning commission. We'll take that to the planning commission. Right. I'd rather have you go to the planning commission. No, no, I think we'll make the directive to the planning commission that they revisit the sign ordinance. Right. But I would like to say, I think this change would address a lot of my concerns that are going to come up in the appeal. And if this. The appeal unfortunately, we have to hear on the existing. I understand that. But in the future, if there's something like this could happen, it would address what we're talking about now. And if I may jump in, he did say that he was, he did want to speak tonight about sort of the big picture issue of sign ordinance in town. However, if we're following the ordinance itself, there are time specifications in terms of how long an appeal is open and available. So if I felt like it was important to put it on the way we did and it wasn't, I didn't try to blindside you at all, Justin. It was just to follow procedure. Right. I thought I would get a letter saying when that appeal would be, I mean, I just literally turned that appeal on last week. So we're. Right. You again, I'm not trying to be. No, I'm not trying to be. But it's. So Mark, what is that time? What is that time table? Yeah, the time table is pretty short. It's the. 15 days to appeal. Yeah, whoever receives the denial letter has 15 days from the date of the denial letter to file an appeal. And at that point, there's the select board then has a very strict timeframe to respond and that it's over. And the whole idea behind this was just to make this process simple and smooth. So it didn't take up a great deal of time for everybody just because it can become time consuming. So Justin met his appeal time in the 15 days. When do we have to have a hearing on it and respond by? What I'm wanting to know is, is the next month's meeting okay? Or do we have to do something? Okay. So the action by the select board, it says here, the select board shall hold a duly worn public hearing within 45 days for the receipt of an appeal and shall render a decision within 15 days after the close of the final hearing. So we'll hold the hearing on it next month. That'll be within the 45 days. Yes, that's true. Yes, his appeal was dated August 30th. And I will receive a notice when that field day will be. You just got it. Next slide, please. You'll probably get that official notice. We haven't issued any violations or anything like this. We've tried to sort of be somewhat, I've tried to be somewhat gentle about this to the public. We've made a public notice. We've put a public notice in the paper just so people could be aware to look at the ordinance and to try to understand and sort of meet in the middle in terms of why there's an ordinance and what we're trying to accomplish. And I think, and that's in my mind, it was sort of a process that would happen over the next six or seven months. And as applications come in just like this one with Mr. Poulin, we would have a chance to review them. And in this case, Mr. Poulin's interest was to have his opinion heard about changing the dynamics of the ordinance itself. And I will say, Mark's been very pleasant in this whole process. Good. Thank you. Good, good. All right, so we'll move that item to next month's agenda and send you off to the planning commission. And Perry will have the conversation there also about sunny fault will be the one that will take the lead on that. And I'll get something from somebody who's- I imagine it's probably sunny, well- I think we're on the agenda, you know, to talk about it and revisit the sign ordinance. And he will send you a notice of when the planning commission meeting is. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Next up is to discuss the high school access for closure and emergency services access. Margaret, are you hanging out for the speeding ordinance? For the- Do we, do you have another item on here, Mark? Yes, there's, am I ready to be here for, I think it would be number G, discuss economic development director's owning admin position, or, you know, want me there for that? No, I think you should be. Okay, I'll stay. The detail other than the school has considered closing the access road. Concern was raised about it, I think from the fire service advisory committee level. It's not a municipally owned or maintained piece of infrastructure as we sort of found out and was highlighted through the road naming process. So it's really, this is just sort of a general conversation. Do you want to engage the school in any form, access to the athletic field as I understand it is one of the primary concerns. There might be other building access issues. So this is the road off central street that goes in by the superintendent's building. I saw the announcement from the superintendent concerning this road closure and my understanding was that it was just that little stretch from the front parking lot to the rear parking lot that goes along the side of the road and that the concern was that that with the blind corners there, that there's been a bunch of near misses of some that were pretty scary and that's the section that they were interested in getting rid of, not the section from the street out to the building at the high school. So you think it's the driveway to the superintendent's building? No, I'm not saying it's not. So the challenge is the fire department is not liking this at all. And so they're asking if the town wants to get engaged which is that leaves them no way to access all the way around the building. And they've also said many a times when they call the emergency services come in the main entrance and if they have to go out around back now they gotta go out on the street and come back and they can't make that turn to come back down by the superintendent. So if they're at the wrong site and they gotta get to the back, they now have to go to four street out, wind over, back down, back down central street and then by the superintendents. I can see the concern, that's why we're talking about that. Yeah, we're talking about the same piece and the other challenge that was brought up was when there is a lot of athletic events there and they call in emergency services, you can't get out around by the tech center and out around back because cars park everywhere. So a lot of the emergency services start in that way and then they end up coming around to that back way lots of times walking across to get to the people or pushing the gurney or whatever across there. So I think the concern is that they wanna make sure that there's a pretty robust conversation about what that impact is to them being able to respond to something there. Has the fire folks spoken with the superintendent about this talk, Lita? Yes, I don't know if they've engaged the superintendent, they've engaged Rob, Bob. So facilities people. Bob Worlick, Worlick? Yeah, and felt like it wasn't really, they weren't heard. But Trevor's right, it's not a town road so we don't have a say in it but it does have a pretty serious impact on our response. We're responsible for fire services there. And that's a pretty serious, if it was a new structure, we'd make them have a road all the way around. Exactly, I was gonna say, if it was a new structure, they'd have to have a road all the way around buildings in which they don't have any access now on that southeast corner. Correct. So do you think the reason for closing this is because of traffic concerns at the crosswalk? Not the crosswalk. No, it's that section that came around where the band and chorus and all that used to be that kind of funky. Okay, show me what we're going here. All right, so that's the right way in. Right, what we're talking about over here, talking about this little stretch right there, curvy sections, goes around the building. They want to, oh, that bad corner. Exactly. Okay, I'm familiar with that bad corner. It's a bad corner. But you can make the bad corner one way or you could do, there's plenty of other changes you could make and it would still be there. It seems like the solution is to close it to normal traffic but to keep it accessible for emergency. Well, their plan is to turn it into green space. Right, but maybe that's, maybe they can. Oh my goodness, that totally limits the fire protection from that side of the building. But they can address the safety concerns, but leave it as a road. And, huh. Okay. I bet no one just, no one really thought about emergency vehicles when they proposed. Understanding and Matt and Mike have had the conversation and it was. I mean, the problem has always been there's been two-way traffic there. That's, right since it was built, it's been two-way traffic issue. I don't remember any big, any, yeah, I mean it's, lots of close calls, I was gonna say yes. But I mean, why wouldn't you just make it one-way? I mean, instead of closing it, why don't they just pick a direction and probably logically it makes, you know, one way to go from Central Street out but I guess, you know, we don't have a lot to say other than maybe make that recommendation but that's kind of foolish to check and put that in the grass area and not get emergency vehicles access to that side of this facility. I mean, that's the auditorium on that side. So, huh. So, I think the topic was there for awareness that this was going on. They wouldn't allow this if it was a new structure. Zoning would require them to get the fire department sign off and the fire department wouldn't sign off without an access. So, you know, I don't know. If we had a new structure, if we built a new structure and they had the road and they decided to just turn it into grass area, would they have to get a permit to do that? The reason I say that is because this has been on their permit applications because when they, I don't know if you were on the board at the time when they cut all those trees in front of the entrance to the guidance office and the auditorium. They paved it over and put accessible parking spots on the lawn. I don't think from the... Because that was all part of that discussion that time. I think it's in that permit. I don't know if they really can get rid of it without a conversation before the zoning board. It certainly seemed to make sense, like you're saying. If you built a new structure and conformed to zoning where you needed a road, you wouldn't be allowed to get rid of it. I don't even think it'd be zoning. I think that would be a state requirement that they'd have to have a built, they'd have to have a road all the way around them. Yeah, I don't think the Department of Labor and Industry would allow that structure to have no road around it now. Right, but given the fact that it doesn't have one. Given it doesn't, no one's gonna make it. Right, it's grandfathered in. That doesn't mean that you can make the situation worse. Correct, that's my... Exactly. Yeah. I can't believe that they would get that. I can't believe the state would allow that. I just don't see how that would be possible. Depends on that told, right? I guess. Mark, are you still hanging out there? Can you pull, maybe tomorrow or the next time you're in the office, can you pull the permit that was issued to the high school for the, it would be where they removed the lawn and the trees and added accessible parking spaces right in this area of road that we're talking about them getting rid of? Cause I think they showed that road because there was a whole discussion at the onsite meeting about these folks backing out in front of cars going through that, that some of them have, you take some people that are your more challenged drivers and have them back out into traffic coming around a blind corner. I'm pretty sure we had that conversation on site. I just don't know if it made it into the permit anywhere, but, cause that may be the way in to say, this is part of your permit now. If you're going to change it, it does need to have a conversation, which is where your fire services get the way in. All right. Okay. See where that one gets us. Further down the road. Yeah. We're not going to name the road anymore though. We're not going to name the road anymore though. I mean, it's all part of their new, whatever, $12 million new school system built on. Mm-hmm. That gorgeous. Draft revisions of the traffic parking and speeding ordinance. Speeding as in it's allowed now. Wherever you want. So went through, pulled, there's some formatting issues that aren't reflected here just in the conversion from an older format into a newer workable one, but most of the changes, certainly the content are reflected in red and or underlined. There are a lot of markups on this first draft. They show a lot of just making the move to consistency among section headers, for example, so that they all look and read the same. There'll still be some additional formatting to make all the things line up. Sometimes when you get into track changes, it can get a little goofier. Makes it a little harder to read when you keep trying to change them. So those will go back and get later. This is version one is how I would think of this one and maybe we'll send this one over to the folks at Orange County Sheriffs for their look over the ones we tasked with enforcing these things. Not too many content changes got rid of some duplicative language and or made it a little more general in some places. When you look at the purpose, it was very specifically focused on speed. This generalizes it because we have sections on speed, sections on overnight parking, sections on parking limitations on Main Street and all of those different pieces. And then have tried to add, so you can see, for example, more flexibility and or the potential for response. So I've had a municipal or municipally authorized personnel try to make references to law enforcement, generally say law enforcement. One of the issues we have with the current ordinances that is very specific in mentioning a Randolph Village Police Department. So we have an enforcement agency listed that no longer exists. This does try to change that in a few different spots. Again, sections on speed limits, obviously no changes to the limits, just changes in presentation throughout. And they broke out a section for section five. It's not new language, it just broke it out a little bit differently. So it has its own home, traffic control devices. Again, just tried to create both consistency and or that ability to enforce it even if situations are a little different than they might be at the present moment. Policy question is we've got the two hour parking limit listed in here in this draft. That's a change from a three. It's been out in the atmosphere a little bit about that change. Might be some inconsistency in signage in practice. So it's just clarified, do we want three or do we want two whatever we want it to be? We'll dump that in here and then can make the signage match after that. Sections on loading zones had references to some again, specific markers that probably made sense at the time such as Bell Mames, Loading Dock at Bell Mames. That's undergoing its own metamorphosis. So we just attached that language to the address itself, concentrated all the fine language in a later section and then during the overnight parking I've just tried to clean up some of the language designated law municipal or law enforcement personnel are added in there rather than the department or police department. Some of those are made more generic. In on page, this is the other lines, 138 through 141. I gotta add page numbers to the draft. Just trying to clarify a little bit how we'll attempt to make contact and what happens if we aren't able to when it's winter parking band season. So we'll keep the practice from the curtain ordinance of trying to reach out to a vehicle owner who's left them in places they shouldn't be such as on Main Street but that after we've made that initial point of contact when they've been reminded that the ban is from date X to date Y and in these times that if they continue to habitually park where they shouldn't be that we've got broader discretion just to tow those vehicles away. Used some language sections five, six and seven in that one looked at for all of these we looked at a few different other municipal traffic and parking enforcement related ordinances and some of the road here is modified to try to be a little more descriptive and capture exactly what we don't want you to do and what constitutes those activities particularly with the vehicle maintenance pieces. So we modified this language that we boosted I think in section five for example actually came from one from up in Essex and so we try to also provide some provisions that if you're in an emergency situation we're not gonna jump open down on you if you've got a real mechanical type of issue that forced you to sort of find a safe place to be off the street or off to the side but it's not the place that you should be fixing up your car and putting the winter tires on yourself and changing your oil and all that. Same thing with unregistered vehicles being that vehicles and or trailers we've had issues with both that remain unregistered and our municipal parking lots, public streets roads are at any town owned property so again trying to hit a little bit of everything that we own so we chase you off the street and we chase you out of a lot you don't end up down at the park for example or one of the trailhead parking lots and commercial and personal vehicles heavy duty again added the trailer there some more just a little bit of clarifying language moves the fines into article six. So for most of the fines in this ordinance there are a variety that we can sort of set in levy and they're taken through the judicial bureau so those are listed here there is a note in a table that for the speeding violations those are set somewhere else through an applicable statutory process like I saw them posted on a judiciary website for example and a law enforcement officer has the discretion to figure out what those fines are based on the circumstance and the potential violation there and then from there on out it's just section headers giving adoption its own article number and then changing some language for additional consistency so there's not a ton of policy content in there other than the two to three hour question in terms of how long some clarifying language on what constitutes abandoned maintenance those are the conversations we have with vehicle owners on a granular basis there's no section in there about the vehicle full of Mountain Dew bottles so that can still stay that lived out there that finally went away yeah chalk full of Mountain Dew and then changes the enforcement in a so that's a little more flexible so that if for some reason something changes we try to add some flexibility in there some of the traffic ordinances if for some reason we ever had regulatory personnel or ordinance enforcement personnel they could take on some of the civil or ordinance based violations in here they obviously couldn't issue speeding tickets as a non sworn officer but that's the basic overview of those changes it would try to address some of the stuff on Main Street that was the subject or the impetus for doing this draft by providing those enforcement tools particularly to law enforcement in this case while we've also drawn maybe hopefully some clearer, brighter boundaries around what is and isn't acceptable for folks parking doesn't mean we won't still have issues but hopefully we have better tools to address them should we be mentioning the spaces that we've dedicated in like there's the parking lot on Fuzzent Street that we put some spaces for Red Lion Inn there and they're gonna be there overnight maybe more than a week I heard there were a problem cause they don't park where the signs are they park in the middle and then it's there for three, four weeks and mountain the snow grows but I'm just thinking you know if I grab windshield wiper blades for example and I live there I'd probably change them in the parking lot you know that's kind of the minor maintenance if we should I think there's a number isn't there, do you need me to sign a number? One by time I think it's six I think they have six parking spaces and I think they're all the way to the back next to the fence was that done through an arrangement with our ACDC versus probably at the time they were bringing together the permits to create that space and sign a contract for us it might make sense to go through the sort of the agreement protocol to try to enforce that I mean you could always designate those spaces there but it might be more effective to try to use the agreement as the lever unless we do want to take a harder line with it and work up to that either fine-hand or tell I was just meant as an exemption like if we have or as you know these are we exempt like though we mentioned the loading dock which should be mentioned that you know unless under a separate agreement or something like that so yeah so actually I'm sorry I missed that 151 for example that line right there if we add it in there some language of the effect except for vehicle owners parking in spaces under the the umbrella of an agreement with the town or something we'll figure out the right ordinance language but that kind of intent got there and changed their oil you can find it on the pavement see if it's by there that would be a problem but one other thing that I saw was I think that the hours on main street should be from seven to five instead of seven thirty to four thirty I just still have businesses that are you know some of this I know that there's some businesses that start a little earlier beer shop I guess on a Saturday morning starts early you want the time to start so that you were the cars were moved and you know so if somebody's showing up at seven thirty it's got a place to park and which has been the problem that's where it all started from so and then I think at least to five o'clock at that point now you're competing with the restaurants that might be on the street but it seems like you've got enough to cover that but at least to go to five and I think two hours is probably sufficient wouldn't you think anybody would need to be there more than two hours good lunch yeah I'm going to have a big lunch or after five it doesn't matter in the restaurant for the evening that's fine okay thoughts what do you think two hours seems a little on this short side you think it's short yeah I think three would be more storing the daytime from seven to five do you think three hours are the big impetus behind this is that we don't want people to just park all day long right that's overnight and then you'll continue to sleep right which is what two hours or three hours it's not going to affect that all and we really just want to be able to focus on you know we know this person is parking here all day long and we want to be able to enforce that they can't do that so whether it's two or three hours doesn't seem like it's really going to matter from their point of view maybe not but we would give other folks a little more leeway in case they come downtown go get lunch in place and then go to chef's market and then go to write aid I'm fine with that it's just for more than two hours yeah I'm fine with it doesn't like you said does that work for enforcement that's not I'm not sure if I have to actually go through and work down but it was there and then go back in three hours and chop the tires yeah and the signs say two hours the signs say two hours signs say two hours now that's part of the inconsistency that's been the problem so it would be less expensive to make it two to change the wording or to change the sign change the signs and just say it I'll keep it to and keep it signed I think it's still I mean that's a weak spot in the enforcement practice just because it's the you have to have somebody can chop them and then come back in so we're not going to be asking the sheriff to go around and check all the time to see who's there for two hours or three hours or four hours it's really because we're like that car has been there for two days well I think they have they already have the plate numbers of all the offenders I can tell you that right now okay and so okay we want we want we want to be able to say that then you're in violation you're in violation you've been here too long and you need to move your cars correct overnight parking really yeah yeah that's what's going on it's the overnighters that are leaving them there during the daytime and affecting the merchants who have businesses there in the morning or people that are coming to work early getting the main street parking space leaving at five five thirty one so I guess the question is are there people who are parking there they're seeing the two-hour sign and they're like oh I better go move my car for two hours probably not you want to fix that probably parking meters I think they're ignoring me so I mean maybe somebody from out of town but yeah anybody in this town looks at those signs it's all worried about getting a ticket yeah we know if any of the apartments where the presumably the offenders live have designated I mean do any of those landlords have designated parking they can park in any useful lot too yeah that's true I mean they just don't want to have to walk sorry this has been the issue for since I started recently they don't want to walk they can park in plus three but then they gotta have a ride so I write that one place that has no overnight parking signs is the m-track lot yeah right but they can park here in this yeah we get people park your regular questions about that and I let the sheriff's office know that somebody's parking a lot not to worry about it I'll be here for a couple days it's fine just as long as they don't change their oil so two or three so a little bit tangential to have something I've always wondered about with relative downtown part of village parking is the market has the signs there that say parking 9 to 5 p.m. for our side only but I think that's because they own they own that well they do own that Sam's owns that oh he does okay and and he also owns this you know the street behind or whoever was buying the building was probably going to end up acquiring the street back behind you know beside the railroad track coming around by side merchants row coming around yeah that's the town doesn't own that either okay so this is really just about main street it's pretty much main street merchants row yeah and you know if this doesn't solve it then you know next step is parking meters I'd say if it's not a big deal to change the sign then make it three hours yeah how many signs are there oh two or three I don't know not that it's not a big deal I just I was just saying was it's fine since we're since we're dealing with it yeah because it does seem like a more reasonable yeah okay fine I'm good with that three hours it is I'm not gonna find it hard to get along but once once we have this and we have the hit in the ordinance written in a way that the that the sheriff can enforce it this should take care of it I would think yeah we'll be able to tell people you're there for more than three hours you can tell them they can do a lot of things well I mean ultimately they can they've all had warnings they all know that I mean this group but hasn't but hasn't the issue been that the way the ordinance is written it's enforcing the sheriff so I just can't enforce this right right but after we change this seems like they could they'll be able to yes that's what they told us that they know who the offenders are they can just put them on notice that this is the deal from now on yeah and uh you know print out the ordinance put it on the show right because we can make it quite public I'm sure all right we can Facebook it so orange yeah I'll make the changes that we talked about here headed over there and then um if you think you're going to be ready at that point and if they don't have anything crazy wild to talk about beforehand we can move to a public hearing on the changes if you want that would be one of the next steps I can schedule that up I think the timelines I'll work for the 11th of october still okay great I'll make development director zoning administrator position I understand the idea right it's to have a conceptual conversation or at least the beginning conversation about separating the two activities from each other so take your advocate your regulator and figure out how to make them different people and there are different models to consider in doing that and so it might be as we think about the budget process and moving into that cycle what does that look like and we've talked about everything from part-time zoning administrators still having been through the hiring cycle and talking to many others we're hunting for unicorns there a little bit just the concern that there's a conflict of interest isn't the isn't the word I want but you see what I'm saying that there's there are inherently two different positions and they could collide in some circumstances part of it but then having had to sit in a zoning administrative role the other thing is if we want to hire somebody to be an economic development director it helps to let them do that the zoning is completely disruptive even when he said at office hours up people don't adhere to them so you're trying to do the customer service thing and take them as they come questions might be simple or they might be difficult it might seem so simple and be difficult I want to put an accessory dwelling that's energy efficient of a certain size on the back whatever acreage of my farm so I can use it as short-term rental and house farm interns that sounds laudable and a good goal and be out of sight and it turns out there are a number of complications with that so then that person who's supposed to be working in a footprint with this thing it kind of crawls out of that box however it feels like whenever it feels like now you're still trying to manage one of those economic development activities so should I be seeking grants managing grants projects building relationships reaching out to business for help well that's harder to do if I'm trying to meet statutory deadlines to get something before trp and so they really I mean there's a little bit of the there's the concern over that that we haven't seen that sort of manifest in practice or anybody raised that as a complaint in a situation as I understand going back to the beginning of the of the mash-up a lot of the pressure is felt in having to do both simultaneously and so arguably are we hitting the best customer service bang for the buck the best regulatory environment the kind of the best you know economic development one as well and there are ways to combine that position with other organizational needs as well there are ways to share it amongst I mean all the ideas have come up from some sort of shared inter municipal z a so we have someone in that role for 20 of the hours and one of our or two of our neighbors take 10 and 10 now we've got a full-time position we house and handle all the billing do all that just as probably the larger town sort of in that model you're somebody you hire and achieve the zoning component yeah so some of the other models that are out there you've got those you've got a planning and zoning administrator so somebody who's planning and the regulatory pieces all together that's a common model of places towns are moving toward an ordinance enforcement person so it's somebody who pick up sign ordinance the zoning ordinance but might also pick up any public health types of pieces might pick up you know assisting with some of the animal control pieces might if we have other nuisance ordinances for example might help in that would become the e9 only coordinator would take sort of all of these things that are out there and necessary then make those sort of the job there are ways to combine some communities have combined it with building inspection and tied that into fire services positions to try to get a little bit of everything so there are a number of different ways to to set it up there doesn't seem to be an entity or an option to go out and say we want to simply straight up contract for this for example but to rivers is also exploring that they sent a survey out where they think they're trying to figure out because everybody in some form is either looking for or likely to look for a zoning administrator it seems like pretty soon especially smaller communities yeah it's a small pool in the best of times and then a lot of the ones that have been out there are at that tenure and career so I think you start to see retirements layered on top of sort of the scarcity on top of this broader need and just about everybody has land use regulations and if you're going to have those you need the enforcement officer or the permit issuance officer I mean really think of it calling it enforcement the person who gives you the permit to do the thing there's a lot of staff time involved and you know rating up those permits once they're filed and completed and you know so there's a lot of energy that goes into that you know when this situation was first came up you know Marty was doing town engineering plus she was doing zoning and planning support to those two organizations and then you know we hired Josh and Josh's full-time role was economic development Marty left that whole thing changed and so since it's changed it's I think it's been been a struggle it's at that point going forward because you know we're not getting our money big bang for the buck that we need from the economic development side of things all we're doing is taking care of business in the zoning and planning office well and ideally the economic development person should be helping a new business or a new development navigate through the process that was the intent and instead of trying to do both things right I mean I'm doing both things just because Josh was willing to take that on for a while hoping that we would find you know a person to replace him or replace that person replace Marty yeah that didn't happen and so you know we haven't been able then you know Adolfo took a shot at it Trevor's taken a shot at it and it's we're not we're not fixing anything here we're just putting band-aids on this so I think it's hurting us all right so we're we budget for essentially Marty's old position still don't we like 20 or 30 hours a week for zoning no the last couple of years it's been I don't know exactly what the genesis of the split is but it works out to 60 40 70 30 somewhere in there where we take the majority of the position's cost is in the economic development director's position and then the remainder of the pay is in the zoning administrator piece and at different points there've been a zoning administrator assistant depending on where we've been at for a while when Emery was in that role that was what that looked like haven't have we had any even very preliminary conversations with any of our neighboring communities about not in this round I think it's happened before as I understand it but shouldn't we be looking at where our needs are so we know we know we need help with the zoning but we also have some pretty major road projects coming and some some large water sewer projects coming and Marty used to be town engineer who would look at the plans and would do a lot of that type of stuff and that seems to be missing in our puzzle right now too so it's almost like what we locked out with was Marty was hired and then she was actually had her PE and had all his other skills so she kind of became the tree warden for a while and assigned person in the you know this and that the E-91-1 coordinator and there was a lot of these little oddball pieces that she picked up that ended up making up a full job and so she also worked part-time yeah she was full-time for a while and then she went down and then she went back up a little bit and then she was at like 30 hours a week when she left she was 20 to 30 sometimes she worked a few more so my understanding was that when she left we were looking to fill that 24 to 30 hour a week whole and not try to fill a 40 hour a week full-time job and that was where we had gotten into trouble was that we weren't offering a full-time job and so it seems like historically if we want to kind of get back to where we were we have precedent for staffing that we could easily justify a 24 to 30 hour a week position for zoning and and these associated tasks and then if we were add in some of the ordinance stuff that you're talking about because we do pay like for health officers and do we just does Milo's animals she get compensated for that also so if we could bring those into it and with the with the funds that come with it it seems like we might be getting pretty close to funding a full-time position that that that we have sort of municipal organizational history of of doing anyway and then we can go out and advertise for a full-time job look at the skill sets you're asking for when he said you're looking for a unicorn you're now looking for somebody who can support the planning commission support zoning permits go chase a rapid dog you know it seems like it would be I guess the message I heard from Trevor though is that this will be easier to fill as a full-time job than as a understood I just we need to look at kind of what we're putting together for job duties and I and I would rather see us do some of the other ones like the health officer one probably because right they go to apartment houses they're looking at similar things to what you're looking at when you do zoning but you know even some of the project side of these these major projects that we do though those skills kind of all lend themselves to each other versus like the dog one thing they all have in common is there's a a permit and an enforcement component to each of them they might be wildly disparate in terms of what you know dogs and health and new buildings whatever but I think in the position at least there is at least a kind of a permitting and a regulatory and an enforcement component that's common in us and the interaction with the public yeah yeah and then Milo might be out in your door you're trying to actually catch that dog that's your neighbor's dog with no collar no nothing on it or a vicious dog she may be there with the state police trying to figure out how to actually capture it so that to me is a different really different position you got to be a little bit you know liking the risk on that versus the others I think are all very common and if you're just documenting a case right for a vicious dog or calling somebody up and saying hey your dog's barking too much can you do something about where you're hooking it that I think all is the same it's that when you get out in that word your column and say hey somebody's dog here I don't know who it is but we're getting into budgeting season maybe we look into combining the ones which seem to make sense and um I'm putting it into our budget fund actually Trevor's got a little handle on that already I think yeah just to I mean the difference in the area and you treat it on a big one in terms of it would be to have that project all the way from sort of the scoping and the estimating on through the management end to have those capacities we're readily available to have that person put together some of the vid specs um we're we're papering those things together it's going to seem like a weird analogy but stick with me I don't everybody remember the movie major league from the 80s there's an older pitcher on the team who he's got no fast he's got nothing in terms of what you think he's got an emery board in his pocket some Vaseline on his cab he's grown every piece of junk he can and he lasts as long as he can does as good as he can that's what we're doing right now I'm I'm Harris in this particular tortured metaphor and it we can make it for a little bit but at some point we're going to need somebody to go out there and do those other pieces out of Vaseline yeah or they're going to catch me with the emery board you know what I mean like it's we're at that spot and we so it's some form to get those with you right out with the plans and meet with the contractors because we did it on play white road she had them right out and she had her tape out measuring and she was like no this isn't going to work you have not come out you're out 10 feet you're supposed to be on 12 feet you know it was that's what we're missing man and we're relying on the contractor to say I did what I was supposed to do yeah here's the bill well then the creation of punch list holding people to those I mean it just right would get a better product out of it start to finish really need a project manager who can constantly look at these things you know John's doing a great job but he probably is not that person to be you know doing that part of it he said the whole team to manage not necessarily arguing with a sub or somebody like that so so I'd be all for having you take a look at how to bring something together to get this to a full-time position again because I really think that you know I think we're lacking in this economic development department you know and we have been you know you know pre-covid I thought we were making a lot of progress COVID got in the way now we're kind of past that and I really think we need to get back in here and you know Mary struggled with this with her team I think there needs to be you know a lot more communication and and a group of people that she can bring together to work with Mark to work on these different things that are out there you know ears to the ground who's is there a new business that wants to come here how can we help them those are the kind of things that originally when this is all envisioned that was how it was going to work so i'm thinking that it'd be great if we can really come up with a good plan for separating out the zoning and these other things that that really should be done by someone else and have the economic developer person really be able to focus on economic development and when we get to that point especially because at that point this can take a little while Mark will have been in his role quite a bit longer and will feel a lot more comfortable and knowledgeable about the world that he's now living in and and I think we would be good for us to come back and have a discussion about what we would like to see him really focus on because my impression is that we could have three people in that role and and and be busy and so there seems like setting priorities and having you know some direction from from the board might might make sense at that point it might help us target some of those grant and project type areas too one of the challenges especially when right now is it's we're trying to wrestle this thing to the ground and back into shape when you lose people and the historical knowledge and all those other things helps us sort of get into that line that smooth trajectory and so that we can do those projects and do them well manage the grants well rather than right now we're in respondent react mode to a lot of those types of things and then be a little bit thoughtful about what do we want to target what do we want to target it for how do we want to go after it and right there's a lot of opportunities and we were moving down a pretty strong path on the recreational side of things you know getting getting the grant for the for the trail system was critical I think there's more of that kind of stuff out there and I think you know Joss was instrumental in helping with that I think that's what mark should be doing you know along with things like you know getting the money for you know what we went for the water system and those kind of things that's really what that job I believe is where you should be at along with hey you know there's a business here that's wanting to come here but they need something from us you know those are the things he needs to be communicating and I don't think you can do it if you're trying to do this zoning rule you can get I mean having I don't want to speak for mark but having had those weeks in between in it it was killer we tried to set hours that we tried to steer through a central hub and then you can't always predict the complexity it goes back to that the simple what seems simple may not be transfer in terms of the budget and where we're at for money we've had a bunch of vacancies that have presumably saved us some money in terms of where we're at and budgeting for positions would it be possible to use some of that money to advertise a position that we've been talking about just now before we get into the new year we could but I would recommend structuring it in a way that we get both we get through a budget process where we say everybody's in agreement we've figured out the right sort of dollar amounts for all these things so we've got a budget and the voters have said go ahead and do that and so we're at that spot where the voters have said as of July 1 you'll have these resources for that position we agree with this idea i'm not saying that we shouldn't do that but that also gets us to lie through winter um which is where we have some variability in in costs and expenses depending on on that so that if we need for whatever reason there's a little bit of that type of cushion let's say you get into april if you've got a really good look you might be able to say at that point we can jump start this process because we feel comfortable that these resources are there bring somebody on at that point and that's how you might be able to go kind of early in that okay and also let's just make sure we've got everything else in place that we need to be that we can get sort of all the way back up and have our legs under us with with the finance department in particular in that case okay so i'm gonna create a martiesque position position is what i'm hearing it's kind of the of the concepts that's the first one to take a look at i think you're you're probably good to add in the health officer role okay but that because that's a very similar function that they usually end up doing and we'll get also some additional funding to go towards that not quite sold on the animal control officer one yeah i can tell you've made a good theory of that one separate but i don't know what else is out there yeah i think that would be a good start and then see if we can find somebody what their capacity is what their skills and interests are and maybe something else seems really good into it yeah the e911 stuff for example would be an easy kind of an easy ad it's a relatively low time commitment right we also have the emergency person yeah yeah an emd that had a little some component of that process that was sort of in-house or were strongly tellered would help certainly if there was a emergency situation so in regards to mark's role here do we how is is there so mary's here and just curious is there a collaborative is there is there a collaboration going on between your group now and mark is it started or where we at no what is going on is mark and i have had at least three meetings okay um the last two weeks and one has been around that grant for from the marketing and tourism regarding randolphin motion and then he and i met just the other day um wednesday and we are we did a lot of brainstorming how we could help one another as far as the economic development and so we're going to start meeting on a regular basis put a plan together of how we've got what kind of structure we're going to have um and so it's in preliminary stages so we may need just the rest of the year and then go fresh beginning beginning of the new year and then take a new round of members when you folks do appointments so i'm already thinking of those you know i have an outline i just need to put it into motion and that's something i've shared with mark and see how we can make it work if we could do it before the end of the year that'd be great but you know we need just to troubleshoot and brainstorm what we've started already okay sounds good to me we just we want a productive team to work with mark as well as how can we help him and how can he help us right so i i call it somewhat of a restructure yeah so i and i think this is opportune time because we have bylaws that haven't been written are rewritten since 2015 um and you know how does that correlate to the economic development director's position and how does it fit in with the council so this is the time to do it i agree sounds good next up we're considering appointing a BLCT town fair voting delegate it's a really exciting thing for a board member to experience really excited for your lifetime i would hate for any of you to miss this opportunity however knowing that you're busy people if you need me to i can go to the business meetings and service the voting delegate there's usually not too too much happening at that you go through annual meetings of each of the insurance trusts sometimes there are policy changes in terms of if there are bylaws or different practices sometimes it's about proving some sort of larger issue with the fund minutes of the prior years meeting that's one to look forward to and then there's the annual meeting at the vlct level that one can be a little more exciting this year i think is a policy year they switch their process up municipal policy is what becomes the backbone of the advocacy efforts so there can be a little more conversation there some years it's quick and dull in other years it gets a little spicy depending on who's there and what they're interested in low-grade low-grade spicy okay low-grade spice so i think tom radian played there things ought to be rocking and rolling and uh and there are other events if you're interested in attending town fair there's uh there are training and round table sessions it's a two-day event you can pick one day or the other or other events with that that are we can get you information on and they're up on vlct's website so annual meetings are no cost and they're open to whomever the delegate is so it looks like you want to take that away from driver not this year maybe when i retire it's the 6th of october yep annual meetings on that where is it this year i'm not killing killington you know yeah okay i don't think i'm going to be entirely the same just been bouncing between killington and south girl yeah usually it's or sometimes out in asics at the fair yeah okay well i guess we'll make a motion to but they take it oh gee whiz do you get to drive around a truck rodeo or no they took that event out of it so that happens at a different time goodness that was uh i thought that was a highlighted event pretty nice okay well sure i'll make a motion to point trevor to the has the delegate for the town vlctown fair i'll second that so it's your sentence all those are bigger hi hi bringing my bike if i get out earlier all right boards committees and commissions so you have one to consider for economic development erica who is i saw her on the zoom so i think there was at least one vacancy on that committee snuck out there might be more than that functionally but when i checked the other day there was at least the one one i know for sure but it's the committee is not meeting right now i'm not meeting currently but this is why she's in this reset mode and so but i think it'd be good to give her a first and second and last three involved here you have an email in packets from erica explaining interest and activities i'll make an motion to apply erica to the economic development and i will second all those in favor hi hi hi post motion hearings were you here for a specific item on the agenda i was uh wondering what was going on with the junkyard ordinances i'm a hebert hill resident and uh winners coming in the mess is the mess is yep it's a eyesore as a neighborhood is whenever you've never heard it affecting property values because it's a gateway to hebert hill and the fences fall down the trees died more stuff comes more stuff leaves this is the yellow place this is the yes this is the place on the right going up the right hand side going up the hill which we've struggled with a lot of things been going on on that road they're really looking up and that's the gateway and you know we've been after this now for a number of years the delfo has had gone through previous conversations with the state we've dealt with lawyers and legal stuff and you know we just keep running into this continuously big stone wall here it's just we can't seem to get through it and you know we've got another property in town is similar to this and we're just struggled to see if we can i mean we're not getting any assistance from from the state and uh so i don't know what to tell you listen to an agreement on this one the last time i'm not sure there may have been but it there may have been but and it there was some improvement but it wasn't a lot if i remember correctly and you know for a junk prices go up some of the stuff will disappear but by no means all of it i mean some of it's like right now there's an old big camper gahald in there and what are you gonna do with that thing you know belongs in the dump it isn't there's no scrap value in it even and then the cars i got a feel and some of those cars they didn't run their property anymore they've etched up the field beyond miles is property now and uh i wonder about the fluids running out of those vehicles and you know whatever that's that's the thing of today to watch out for you know is it a functioning business no it's just it's just a it's a just a collection and like you said the junk prices go up some stuff leaves and then when the numbers come down the stuff accumulates and it's one of the impressions if you give himself that he'll take it that's it people quit giving him stuff would be all right well that's where we run into a little snag here was you know now it's considered his personal property so it it violates the ordinance i mean we have we've not we've known this we've gone down this path here with him and finkel we're still and we're still fighting with that one he was in town on school yeah this one exactly this was this was in the village and he moved out all up there yeah good i've got to some i don't know what happened but he had kicked off the property was on and ends up on i don't know some relative's property up there her mother her mother wasn't it something this thing's been back out there in the last 18 and i don't remember exactly the date but salvage yard coordinator do go out there met with the people talked about sort of what fit under their purview so you may have seen some neatening up yeah on that time and some loose fencing efforts but but it wasn't certainly cleanup oriented but i walked past there probably twice week as we walk our dogs that people killed and i couldn't tell if it was cleaned up or not i mean you know yeah it always looks you know over the bank there's some stuff that's fall it fell over there it's it's pretty shocking and somebody's right now was doing some work on the other side of the road yeah there's somebody doing some nice cleaning yeah looks like there's a whole lot to go in there yeah again well i guess all we can do is we can pull the file and see where it ended up um and look at it if i remember correctly they did they had more unregistered vehicles than what was allowed but they said something about they that's always random and some competition wasn't it some it's always personal property thing competition that they weren't so they were they got in under the hobby piece on that wow but i think um i remember correctly photos were taken the last time so we should be able to take some more photos and have a comparable to know that more has come in or what more has come in i've also seen a bear crossing the road quite often just just over the hill at 10 o'clock in the morning that's a big bear maybe you can see if the states just to follow up and see where they were at i don't know if it's something the bears after two places the state doesn't really want or have the time to work on these small problems they're big for us but they're small at the state level and they're pretty low down on their list of priorities and locally we don't have good tools to to force compliance with our ordinance but i just don't exist and i can't relate the tools right it's it's something that really needs to happen as a legislative state station and i've been and i put in a bill last year to fix this but it went to gov ops which was a little bit busy with redistricting and pensions and so they didn't get to it but i'm gonna really try to make sure that it gets um looked at this year i was like i find a few other sponsors because i'm sure we're not the only community right yeah no exactly this is the state like everybody i've talked to is like yeah we have these things going on in our communities and we don't know what to do with them either so it might be a good time to really look at some sort of the statewide you're a guy yeah i really want to i really like to see this but who likes municipalities have the have the the tools they need to enforce these i don't know that it's municipalities municipalities don't have the money to fight some of these you know and talk to berkfield about how much they get into that one on 14 yes so my understanding is that and they win and there's nothing making we can we yeah we can we can issue citations we issue citations but every day but then they don't pay them correct and we have no way to make them no nope because no so the the the legislation the bill that i had drawn up last year would have given towns the authority to treat unpaid fines of these of these nature in the same way that we treat unpaid water bills or tax bills so that if somebody doesn't pay we can we can bring them to tax sale who's gonna bid on them honestly like some of these are that one in brookfield is on contaminated land the worst-case scenario is is also unfortunately is that the town takes it over but at least it gets cleaned up yeah but that's going to be the worst-case scenario no matter what i mean yeah so but at least we get it well yeah and that's what needs to happen you know i think you're on the right track you know the state the town cleans it up and then the town but you need to have the authority from the state to be able to go do it you just need that piece of legislation it gives the towns the right to you know go in there and do that you know years ago barry did barry town did this put the dugout that's when it or the loaders and the dump trucks am i correct why they're lately uh no that i'm going up there lately but they clean it up once that was after ireen and they got it bought out with is that what happened they got bought out with funds so they got able to clean it up yeah but you know some of these the i mean that we could talk about this in a different venue but in brookfield the the land that they got the problem on is the same one that's contaminated by the dry cleaner that dumped all their yeah university there's a ground field oh yeah and now they bought all these cars and all kinds of stuff on top of it but the town doesn't want the land and they've won in court three or four times but they can't enforce anything they can't even enforce the court order and they don't want the land the judge said well we'll give you ownership of the property and they're like no it's all contaminated and whatnot we don't want that too it's a mess right so it may not be a one-size-fits-all and all scenarios but in some of them start with at least being able to enforce our ordinances make brown field money eligible for towns to use to clean it up and you might find something too well if it's owned if it is owned by the municipality there are additional funding sources that are available then if it's a private in this case some of the neighbors even offered to buy this property and it didn't happen okay i mean yeah i mean and there were some pretty substantial resources to be able to buy it but still not going anywhere so you can't even buy them out there's no place to go yeah that's the problem by putting them all you're gonna just move it down the road or up the road or someplace it's gonna go it's not gonna it's right it's what happened before well if they make that offer tell them a different town make that contingent right all right thank you well anyways it's it's been on our radar screen for a long time okay keep it there please yeah well i drive by it too i see it right time i go to my son's house yeah shake my head oh i drive by it every day yeah i know sometimes it really raises the hair yep i agree thank you all right have a good evening patience it is quite nice or yeah so now we have item j that was added east randolph hall in defining how to approach that to okay figure out roles responsibilities when it is where it goes i think it's some of the challenge here is that that we don't have a priority system right so if we looked at all the buildings that the town owns we don't have we haven't finished the priority model that would we would plug in all the projects and see where how that ranks so it's fair to say it's not a project but it's not fair to say where we don't know where it would come out if we were to have some type of priority ranking how would you arrive at priorities in a ranking system yeah and how would that ranking system be implemented that's a process that you need to go through but we don't have this system we don't have it for our roads either it started down that path but then we had other hires that we had to put out um how many town buildings are there too many well you gotta remember ownership wise jan learned the library both fit into that model too so you got the town hall and you got the two garages two garages two fire stations water waste water plant i mean there are smaller buildings too such as the one out at the landfill but you've got a camp building pool building um are there any of those buildings that you can't use you're using that building all our buildings can be used 12 except for the hall well you're using the hall it's just limited most of those other buildings are everyday spaces though in some form channelers a different animal all together but it's the only thing the camp building is used every day for four months with kids in it the buildings used every year yeah same thing this building is obviously used every day landfill buildings used every day garages are used every day to support the other functions and to provide the other programs so they're they're they're different animals at a certain level in terms of what you use them for fire stations or emergency services right need to be able to be used when they're needed 24-7 all of those activities you you describe uh you know they're all centered around the village itself of Randolph and and and all the things you're describing aren't within a 20-minute drive of east Randolph so how how does east Randolph fit into the priorities of the town as a whole i mean this this from from what i can see is a taxpayer here on in the east valley there's very little attention paid at all to this side of town oh i don't necessarily go on with that you get snow plowing you get road work get done you've got a fire department over there i don't think i'd quite go that far at all well i yeah i i i'm just saying it's like you know everybody i certainly disagree i i certainly disagree with you perry and and you know i'm fine just just disagreeing with you but uh that there is there is nothing approaching the activity on the on the east side of town as there are on the west side it's the higher pop population on the west side there's no argument but uh you know this isn't Siberia well i'm that's serious like sure let me give you a little history lesson john i grew up over there that's where i was first started my tenure in the town of Randolph when i was born over in that region it hasn't changed much in the last 65 years it's just the way it is we're divided by a mountain here and the major population of the community is over here on the west side so hence we have the west randolph comments and we have the east valley comments so you know but i think as far as you know services and things like that you know you guys are getting your roads taken care of you're getting the roads plowed um you have a fire department over there that we've supported you know pretty well here over the last however many years so i'm not quite saying that we're you know we're ignoring you over there there happens to be this issue of the hall and that hall situation has been that way for years also and i understand now that you know we've got to try to do something with it um but what are the what are the uses that you want to do with it what how is it going to generate revenue or is or is it going to generate revenue or is it just going to be a building that gets i don't know i'm hearing big numbers here you know two and a half million dollars you know to to renovate that place and lift it you know it seems like a pretty pretty big stretch to get the rest of the taxpayers to buy into and it's like i said in the meeting you know if you can if you can sell that to them then so be it but we have to also look at what the bond priorities are so just just just just a comment about the dollars perry you know two and a half million included all the options and the bells and whistles that um you know we're we're put forth in the study that that that that was done the reality is to get the building open to get the foundation taken care of to address the fire marshals issues the code related issues the structural safety and the the initial building longevity issues we're we're talking at something around eight hundred fifty thousand dollars okay so eight hundred fifty thousand bucks do you think that that's a i'm having a little struggle with that one eight hundred fifty thousand bucks you could probably build yourself a new building okay for a lot less money that would be up to code and would be you know a better space i'd hate to lose the historical value of this but you know unless you've got you know a donor in your back pocket over there that wants to kick in a lot of money i just don't i'm having to struggle with that and then that's why initially when we started this conversation you know three or four years ago you know preservation trust worked with the town of brookfield and i sent you guys up there to see what brookfield did and so that's i'm still on that tangent here that you know it's gotta come from those kind of sources perry yes brookfield's not owned by the town is a whole different scenario going on here number one number two number two we are more than willing to help where we can help but we are not running this project it belongs to the town but i don't think the town's the one bedsy that went out and created this project and i we had this conversation of we we aren't even really sure why mel pushed so hard for the town to own this building other than it was a conversation about eligibility for grants and and part of that but you know if there's somebody else i'd like to own this building we definitely will consider transferring ownership to them if there's a a group that wants to have the exact model that brookfield used you know we're willing to go that route i i just think that we really need to figure out what this project is and whether it's a priority or not and where the town comes in on it i don't you know what i don't know that i'm ready to commit resources whether it's labor hours or money on a project that i just don't isn't really defined and perry's right we sat there and we listened and we heard the numbers they've been all over the place 800 000 is the lowest i've heard and i haven't seen what that scope looks like but i don't believe you're going to get out of that for 800 000 on that building because i think that's one of those that once you get into it there's a lot more rot and a lot more problems than what trini trini that's only to deal with it's not anything cosmetic nothing frills it's not changing entrance ways it's only dealing with a da and the foundation and it really those figures are like john said he's he he's very very close i came up with something similar i was a little bit less but we're right in the same ballpark looking at the figures from bread loaf and looking at some of the other pieces i really am hearing the town isn't interested in this project and restoring this building that's the current select board is not interested in it in it right now it may be somewhere down the road and will still be a committee and it may still be a committee that wants to help in the meantime i have a question for you did that sound right by the way that where everybody's at well and i'm going to say exactly that way but it's just the numbers that like i like i said they we're hearing a lot of different numbers from what we heard initially you know i mean i'd heard numbers back in the beginning it's like okay you can't use the building you're not allowed in the building the fire marshal says this is what you got to do and somebody came back and said it's going to take a half million dollars to fix it okay so then you know going down that path that sounded okay that's kind of reasonable but then as we dig deeper and deeper and we get into these you know scopes of work and all these you know architect involvement and then we find out oh my god it's two and a half million dollars if that's the wish list well maybe that's a wish list for for 20 years i don't know if it's a wish list to get you into the building now i mean what do you know guys are holding bingo in there correct so the fire marshal has given us permission to hold the fire marshal's given us permission to hold groups on the upstairs level for not more than 60 people for sure and 50 is better but not more than 60 we had to have a porta potty and we had to have the handicap parking places and the ramp for people to get in that's all temporary i don't know how long the town and the fire marshal will allow us to continue that way i didn't know until recently when i was talking with the fire marshal that we could have other things besides bingo there as long as we stayed within the structure of it's a town advisory committee that is putting a yoga class together as an example but it's not the town advisory committee that's doing that it's the it's the east valley group that's doing that the same as it is the east valley group doing the bingo as an advisory committee not to the town you're not doing those as an advisory committee to the town you're doing those as your own standalone group that's correct but the reason we could use it is because we are a town advisory committee am i right about that trevor i think we're digging out a little bit here is that in order to raise funds through the bingo effort for the efforts those run through the group which is an independentity if there's an advisory group to the board put together informed that's what the advisory committee is so a legislative that's a public body under the open meeting law that's the distinction whereas the other one's a non-profit and or other status i haven't seen the only thing i've seen from morise was related to bingo in terms of the usage and we set up the parameters with some dates around that some of the other other requirements so if there's something newer from him we can take a look at that and see how these distinctions play out but okay do you have a timetable on it is that is that i mean i assume you guys talk to each other i apologize well i'm assuming did so did we have is that what you what you've got from morise is that was there a time limit on that is that just for six months or a year or does it got to be revisited not the winter months i think it's october that we have a the use agreement that we set up that we all signed that was sent from that conversation that we did have all together in some form but we don't always get looped into the same thing all together so that could be the gap so what's the next step of of what you would need to continue to do that or to expand the number of people in the building what's got to be done there what what's he looking for there i think at some point it's going to have to be those permanent improvements some of these why they've been the allowances especially for the bingo events is to help raise money in support of that of that effort they generally match up with a weather window that's a little bit better so that you can get away with the quarterlets get a little more daylight ease of access you know there's some method to that madness in terms of the why that time of year versus january for example okay but i don't know if this is in every single year unless or until something happens are we able to do this at a certain level we have followed their discretion as to life safety and public safety professional in the loop yeah because that helps us with our insurance concerns with our safety concerns right yeah okay am i only thought what that was to go along with with the whole keeping it in the town's mind that somewhere maybe a year or two down the road they'll say but why don't we get this building fixed i to go back to the two distinct entities where you're going to get into a problem is if you're raising that money as a town committee the revenue of that needs to come to the town to go into the fund for the building if you're raising it as your east valley group not part of the town then the money goes into your account to do what you want to with it so you can't represent yourself as a town entity and then keep the money you make the agreement is with the group i'm remembering the language right so for the bingo pieces at least it does tie that way mm-hmm so the question is whether we want to commit somebody to sit down and to find a project and roles and responsibilities and i don't know that we're ready to define a project and how are we gonna pick i mean let's let's think long term with this i mean this this this isn't something that's going to be fixed overnight but without some kind of commitment from a personnel from the town that can provide us with some professional assistance we're really going to get nowhere yeah but you've been on the call tonight and heard that there's we don't have enough staff hours right now to do the the mandatory stuff is that going to be a permanent condition is that something that you're working actively to improve that you know uh there is a problem the labor force out there right now and so it's a little hard to find people to take on these roles yeah i'm i'm i'm well aware of what's happening in the labor market but the okay well so to follow that logic took to follow that logic you would arrive at the conclusion that the town's never going to take on anything new i don't know if i quite go that far no that's not the case well we've got some projects right now that are slipping because we don't have the staff hours to get them out and those are roads and water sewer projects and you know more of the the you know main infrastructure of the town yeah that's a struggle you know the phone calls i get john regarding what's going on around town would probably not shock you but you might not realize how many of my get like you know how come the cemetery is not mode and you know geese you know we're having this funeral and i've got to you know got to get the cemetery mode who's going to do that now they're going to get it done before june 10th are we going to get it done before july 5th so i get those kind of phone calls i get phone calls when you know your road doesn't have enough sand on it or where we're spreading gravel on the road those kind of things and so these priorities you know all gets stacked up and you know the the goal here is to provide services to the community which i think we're doing and this is a project when it initially came about you know i thought it was a great project i didn't realize it had quite the price tag to it so you know from a business standpoint does it make sense to date dump eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars into that building um i don't think so because i think you could build something for a lot less it would serve the purpose it just doesn't have that historical piece to it but eight fifty is going to get you anything down too don't forget that oh i understand you gotta knock it down but you're not going to get that eight fifty is only step one you're still going to get to the two and a half million it's just going to be a different somehow you're going to get there i mean i just i'm just having a problem in thinking that you know this is a two and a half million dollars if you decide to take the building down try to save the uh stage curtain okay well i don't think we're anywhere near taking the building down right now you know i'd just like to put some band-aids on this for a little while and that's why i'm asking is you know how long is your agreement with the fire marshal could that be extended is is what's the next step going to cost is the next step of fifty thousand dollar step or is it a hundred and fifty thousand dollar step you know can we stay you know can we stage this out you know over a number of years to get to the point where you know things are changed around here a little bit and you know when you look at the a structure the answer to your question is yes it is but it is because if you're going to you're going to make a decision now what you're going to do that building because the first step is going to be to raise it and put a new foundation in it and remember that night they said one of the options was to add another eight inches to have more clearance downstairs yeah which if you're going to do that that changes your whole yeah that changes all your structural supports changes all your beams all that has to change so you got to make the decision today how far down this path you're going because your first phase of your construction has to know what you're doing right and so you can't just put a foundation under it now and move forward and then in a few years say oh let's add that eight inches to it you can but it's going to be a nightmare well you need to have a sense of a better sense than i've heard uh thus far of what use you're going to put the building to and how far do you have to go to make that use possible and frankly how frequent is that use going to be to justify any $150,000 expense or whatever the expense is going to be i mean being goes great maybe a local theater whatever is envisioned to be in there the building needs to be able and what revenue is going to come out of that right like you've got ongoing operating cost is the town going to take on all the additional operating costs or is there going to be some expectation that there'll be a certain revenue stream that's going to oh absolutely yeah well but we don't know that we haven't but to whom well that's right that would be my marketing plan yeah okay but we don't have a you know that's part of it like what does that look like who are the entities that are willing to rent it and what are they willing to pay and how often are they going to do it you know once a year to to do a craft fair isn't enough but is there like somebody who wants to do health classes or you know exercise things or kids crafts on saturdays or you know and a lot of those they look for you not to charge right they're looking for public views buildings that they don't have to pay for because it's usually Gifford or the school or somebody underwriting those so it's there's public there's buildings you can use and you don't have to pay for yeah if i wanted to do a craft class where can i do that and end up and not have to pay for it you can't because you're a person but if you were the school wanting to do it or you were Gifford or somebody like that they can get into a lot of these facilities without a fee well there's a there's more market out there than there's there's a lot more market out there but i mean you bring brookfield as an example they they don't do it in the wintertime at this particular point but they can stay pretty busy oh they're they're getting they seem to be getting a lot of use out of their model there's no doubt about it and they are limited to their seasonality i i that i do know but i because i've rented some heaters on occasions for early spring events and late fall so um but i know you know that they secured a lot of money from individuals and preservation trust and so you know whatever they did you know they raised a lot of capital that way and that went a long way to getting them to where they are i don't know what the condition of the building was when they took it over and how much work they had to do or how much they needed to spend but i know it's a pretty substantial amount well i personally don't want to start going and asking people for donations and nothing happens i'm i'd be very ashamed of that so oh i think yeah you don't want to do that until you actually have a plan of action no i yes until i know that there is a plan and it's looks reasonable too for a town situation such as randolph's i'm not sure betsey that you're hearing that the town's going to take the lead on developing a plan for how to make this project go from where it is today to a you know five-year ten-year plan of two and a half million because i don't think the town's sold yet that it's a project that we want to put as a top priority i think somewhere there's got to be that interim step of sitting down and defining what this really is and and what it looks like and you know there was a whole conversation about a business plan and part of a business plan is scoping out what you're doing it's not just finding uses for it it's it's defining your purpose and need and what that looks like and what you want to you know what's your end goal and what what do you have today and how you know what's it going to take to get there and then what you know what your ongoing costs all that is it's it's got to be broken into smaller phases for manageable things yeah probably i mean you know coming up with a pro forma budget um would be a good start of what you know let's just say theoretically you've got it in a situation where you could use the building for any use you wanted and uh you know meeting all the fire codes and everything else and and forgetting what the cost is at this point but just say okay now we've got a building we can utilize what are we going to do with it what's it going to cost to take care of it heat it maintain it those kind of things and what what's our revenue sources so that would help me an awful lot to to figure out you know where that's going let's just take out of the equation you know what it costs to fix it let's just say that that building was ready to go and this is what we could do with it what would we generate for revenue and what would our expenses be that would be my first concern is it sustainable can it take care of itself and if it can't what are you asking yes they can't then what are you asking yeah what are we asking the taxpayers to pick up you know we we have an arrangement with Chandler and you know we pick up a portion of the heat for that but they pretty much take care of all the minor maintenance and then when they need have a major maintenance issue we're you know called out on the carpet to come help figure out how to solve that problem so that's Chandler situation yeah I can tell you from personal experience having headed Chandler for two and a half years that it's an organization that constantly struggles with sustaining itself in a very very difficult fundraising and development and even grant writing environment and unfortunately and I think this is true for similar organizations statewide COVID made that even more difficult so if you're going to develop a fundraising and a long-term strategy for sustaining the community center if you go that route you're going to need to be very very conservative about what kind of revenues you can generate including from fundraising and development as well as as you suggest you know renting the facility and so on it's a very very difficult environment and it's made even more so by the fact that this is a rural predominantly working class and middle class community and the financial resources are just not there how can we get some visibility into the budgeting model that Chandler uses with the town Chandler doesn't provide us any of that I mean it's a good question you could ask but you know they don't we're not privy to their budget information the only thing that we ended getting asked to do is when they what is considered to be a major repair then you know we're asked to you know to contribute to that repair but the rest of the stuff that goes on there is there as their own entity they basically just have a lease agreement so so that is that a kind of building pardon me no that's not how is that why is that odd that's is it a town on building it's a town on building but the organ that Chandler is its own separate nonprofit organization that leases the building from the town oh they lease it yes for not much money for for negative for negative money yeah yeah not and not that we had anything to do with that okay but you know it's it's a situation that's been there for 20 some odd years the town subsidizes it to the extent that we pay a portion of the heating oil costs and that's about it and uh so we pay a lot more than that the bond payment for the well yeah we have a bond payment also that we're covering you right i was just about to mention yeah okay there's a $750,000 bond that the taxpayers voted to take on 20 years ago when the renovation and modernization project happened and at the same time they also raised one point something million they raised raised one and a half or two million one and a half one and a half a whole project was about two point two five million dollars uh and 750,000 of that came from a taxpayer authorized bond so you know and that was 20 years ago yeah and they they launched a campaign i don't know took them a couple of years to raise the one point whatever 1.5 so um well i guess go go back to Trini's question and where you're all at with the renovation of this building at this particular point was that the first question yeah no the question was how do we get a definition of what this project is and what we're and what we're actually being asked if we support or not right i correct me if i'm wrong but i think what we're asking for is is a pretty comprehensive proforma that shows what your vision for for the center is how you're going to raise the money to make it happen and more critically how you're going to sustain it once it does happen um you know you know i would think that way if i owned the building but i don't we don't own the building well Chandler doesn't either Chandler wanted to be Chandler doesn't oh Chandler doesn't own its building either but that's the way it and Chandler came in and wanted to renovate they came to the town with a plan to get buy-in right on what they wanted to do and how what their plan was and actually made quite a bit of progress before i believe before they asked the town about bonding it wasn't i don't think it's been around for so long i don't know how well the organization itself wasn't i mean you know back in the i would say probably in the late 70s early 80s you know there wasn't entity that that really dealt with it there was a handful of people that basically had taken on the responsibility of it and you know had booked some shows in there but the place was in pretty big you know it was in shambles it was disrepair the seats were in bad shape the walls are in bad shape ceilings are in bad shape and i believe it was redheart redheart again and urma and some of those folks the drives dales and martha osland and so they kind of just came up with this similar to what you guys are doing they put together a group and put together a proposal to the community and primarily i guess the select board at the time and said okay this is what we need and if we can raise this much would you do this much and my understanding is that's how the deal went down and they they put in their sweat equity and and rejuvenated the place and then put on the big addition out back so that was all part of that 2.2 million or 2. whatever it was 2.5 million dollar renovation project that they went through and so they've been tasked with you know taking care of the building and you know using it to do what they they're currently doing with it so i mean that's that's how that came to be and not everybody's you know not everybody's warm and fuzzy about this you know there's still a lot of people that call me up and ask me why we're paying the heat and bill but that's the deal so how much is it 13 to ensure it just to ensure the building yeah so so we do that fuel oil in the insurance fuel oil in the bond right just out the 80 for the yeah i can say it's about 75 from what i can recollect yeah so that i mean it you know there is a value there um if you guys could make that kind of a case and that's the kind of programming or whatever you think you can do over there and show that to the to the community and we can sell that to the community then you know i think you got a shot at this i think i said that when i was there at the meeting it's like you got it you got to figure out how to sell this to the rest of the community we're just the guardians of the ship so to speak you know so so trevor can you find out from morris where he stands now with any future use after we get done bingo in september whether he thinks that can continue another year or how much it can be used yeah i mean i'll reach out to him it'll fit with everything else in the in the in the punches and i'm not trying to put it out i'm just trying to be really honest about capacity like what we can get it out but okay if he's if the fire marshal is allowing you know he's put an end date on this allowing the bingo operation done i mean why can't that just be extended um well sometimes they will but you can remember that some of the challenges rot and each year he gets a little worse okay and so eventually they're going to be like no yeah you know they'll go until something happens yeah yeah but i think they put an end date on it for two reasons first off the heating season right and there's like no insulation and some broken windows or cracked windows and a lot of challenges with that but it also allows them to come in in the spring and do another inspection before they before they make any commitments my guess is morris is going to tell you that he'll inspect it in the spring and let you know whether there's any use that season or not i don't know if more yeah morris might not be here in the spring he's getting married i'm moving well that could be a good thing or it could be a bad thing i can only tell you that fire marshal's change sometimes the rules change all i don't know i do anyways i've been dealing with them for a long time what's the final decision here we all need to go to bed i think we had to go back and turn the crank with the group one one one one more time betsey and okay see where we stand on this that sounds sounds like a good idea i haven't heard anything i haven't heard anything from larry um i i would say that given everything that i've heard tonight um it seems like it's going to be very challenging for you to come up with a plan where you can raise enough money to make this building become a usable facility um to where you're asked from the town is small enough for it to have a reasonable chance of getting past the voters um it just with the money with the numbers that we're hearing um it's just it it just seems like a really big a really big ask um when we're looking at 800 thousand dollars just to get started um which is just talking about huge amounts of money and given all the competing priorities for the town it's it's hard to see how you'll be able to come to the voters and say we want the town as a whole to pick up most of that tab and if the town is picking up a smaller amount you might have a chance but then that's a huge burden for your small group and it's hard for me to see how you make that work not that you can't but that's that's what i'm hearing right now okay larry and the rest of you guys going along with what he just said and i know you've discussed this in the past one of the things my magic wand wishes is that i could find a family who wants to put make a huge donation and have their name on the hall when the time comes have it be renamed i have no idea how much that contribution would have to be do you um well we talked about that once before just just as a hypothetical um say you're looking at a billion i'm just gonna take all you can get i would say i would say um if you're looking at a million i would say half of it at least because then what you can do is you can leverage a five hundred thousand dollar or if you're talking two million a million dollar um you can go public with that gift and kick off your fundraising campaign by saying you know john and jane doe's family has has kicked in one million dollars to name this the east randolph the doe family east randolph community center or whatever and and and that that sets the model for others to make much more modest contributions but still with the understanding that they're matching the five hundred thousand dollar gift or whatever you you pride that that's sort of that's development and fundraising 101 for this kind of project but you got to know what the total project is before you set that amount you need to know what your total project cost is going to be whether you're going to just bottom line at eight fifty or try and go for the whole inch a lot of two point two or whatever you don't know because the prices cost of things change all the time so there's no way to know that for sure project estimating has been pretty consistent over the last three to four months so it's starting to level out and get more predictable i think what your challenge is is would you know if you're asking the question of if phase one is eight hundred thousand will the town allow the building to be named for 400 i would say we need to know what the whole project is you know because if you're going to break it down into smaller pieces the first piece somebody shouldn't be able to pay only a portion of that and get it named if the next part of the project is much bigger yeah you know you got a two and a half million dollar project and you break it down into you know a half a million dollars so for 250 you can have it named after yourself and you got a two and a half million dollar project that's it seems like a sell out would you go to the building at that point yeah that's true and then you continue to phase up the project exactly we can have a casino night there bring in some money come on guys so um are you having an ackee no no you can do it no no no you can have a casino night it's okay you have to hire certain people you can really make some money you can get yourself a oh i know some i know an abnackie not an abnackie but she's some other kind of princess she lives right she lives in brain treat she's a she's one of the tribal princess oh she's not the she's the chief actually okay dog bat swipe okay can we sound like you were going back to you're going to go back to your group right yeah okay let's see how that goes all right good night good night all right next up is the manager's report you know what you have listed there we're moving along with those hiring processes with any luck by the end of the week early next week we can have three spots so hopefully back up and then someone in the recreation director's role or at least plans to bring them on board it'll depend on a few final steps here okay the things are looking positive feeling very good about all of these people too um and so it's a pain to look on yeah and that'll go a long way to helping us create some time and capacity and leveling things out and that leaves a little bit of space to fill out in the field-based positions we still have the the two hybrids that you reallocated earlier in the summer those are still open and out there in terms of when we split them up and then we have longtime highway department employee is retiring so john race is leaving gave us a little bit of notice last day is actually tomorrow so we'll have to fill that role we thought we had somebody and made a switcheroo pretty quickly but much like we've experienced and it feels like 37 other times at this point the current employer or somebody else up to any holds a few more tall bills out and we either lose them or that takes a little bit longer to figure out what's going on so hopefully but that you know if we can fill these other three slots it basically leaves us three positions from full which is as close as we've ever been to full i think or have been to full for your tenure year yeah yeah okay we had about four weeks i think six weeks last fall we were full uh-huh all right well keep on making progress things are looking up larry don't you think yeah yeah i do but um yeah in like i mentioned in the report i'm optimistic i think stabilization is sooner but if for some reason we have to carry some vacancies for even longer we got to sit down prioritize what we want to do and how we want to do it and what's going to do it the handful of people are stepping in cover and everybody's a burnt piece of ghost at this point i don't know chris like it's just for crispy so you got to figure out how to find balanced but this all works out which we're hoping planning on it it's a it's a mixture of folks two's one case it's somebody who's been working with us in a temporary capacity has essentially passed an audition of flying colors so we have a higher level of confidence and i mean that was done to make sure everybody was okay with it you know that worked for everybody schedule wise kind of a nice soft entry one of the other candidates has local experience in that particular role stealing them from somewhere else basically you used to feel bad about such things but they don't anymore happens to us so that's not really optimistic has a lot of really good experience will fit in really well in that role and the third person has a lot of the same types of experience but in a different sphere but um that's an interesting training in their background including as an aspiring diplomat and certain roles that that'll be a nice addition to our capabilities so i'm feeling pretty good so now i've said it i'm also getting to that point i'm like now i've said it i don't know it's all gonna collapse but not kind of would that we'll we'll get there i don't think there's anything else to add we had a few things in there that just followed up on stuff the pay schedule things just an audit thing when we were talking with Cynthia from number it could make sense to get into the practice every year maybe around the first of the year ideally where we just sort of have you guys look at a pay schedule for everybody it'll reflect what's in the budget so you changes you adopt it and we've essentially created that process element we could argue that we do it every year when the voters prove the budget but it's a nice little step and it helps whomever's in that role or whoever has to step into that role know that's the schedule so it shouldn't be too major but this lets us i'm gonna do the official signing with the contract the union we're scheduled for 10 tomorrow we were scheduled for august didn't come together we were here um stuff came up and um there wasn't anything in a final review other than there was a sentence missing about who could authorize the wearing of shorts so nothing major you wouldn't think it sounds like the live golf tour yeah uh essentially who could do who could authorize you wearing shorts um don't you make that decision you're super bad you're being well oh boy so small stuff around the edges there was a lettering issue that was probably a track changes whole over that kind of stuff but the numbers all worked out the languages all there the intent was all good so we'll sign that up and then work through making those pay adjustments all right all right ready to go to executive session do we have any of these that we have to find first i think yeah if i remember right the doing the real estate one on there believe requires the finding the mediation might as well if nothing else you've added an extra motion for kim to include in the minute so we test out her growing skills here so we first need to find that we need to go into executive session you're finding that it's necessary and prudent and that premature general public knowledge to place the town at a disadvantage so moved second all those in favor posed motion carries move the lantern to the executive session all second all those in favor aye hi posed motion carries