 We're instrumental in helping the district meet its commitment to the academic, social and emotional needs of every student every day. I think we're living in a time when existential threat is a phrase that's being applied to our democracy and to climate change. And I believe that without. Deliberation that, in fact, in inability or unwillingness to fight for your employees poses existential threat to the excellence that is our our schools. I challenge you to do all that you can to ensure that years from now, we can look back at this moment and say that we did all that we could to continue not erode that legacy of excellence that is our arts schools. Thank you for your time. Thank you for joining us. Next is Shawna. I'm sorry. You have to tell me how to pronounce your last name. I can't quite make it out. Hi, everyone. I'm Shawna Tausie-Farrer. I'm a lifelong resident of Northampton. I just started as a paraeducator at Wildwood Elementary a few weeks ago. I primarily do recess, which the way that I've sort of summed it up for people who are not familiar with this job is I'm working with the kids at the height of their energy and also often at the height of their interpersonal problems. So it's a very, very active job. I'm like thinking about how to manage this situation that's already happening while practically trying to prevent a situation over here. I'm thinking about this group of kids that wants to play and this group of kids that feels left out, etc. It's a job that I really, really love and care about, and I think, frankly, I care more than I am paid for, and that is a real problem for me. I also wanted to get into a point about numbers. I could just speak just personally that I was pretty surprised when administrator handed me my contract, and it said $17.13 an hour, which is substantially less than what Northampton public schools were offering for similar positions. And what that works out to over the course of the school year is about $8,000. Granted, I'm working currently 15 hours a week, but if you do the math, that's about $21,000 if I was working full-time. So basically the only reason that me and my housemate are able to afford our rent of $1,200 a month is that we currently aren't paying rent because we have a slumlord who does not brought the building up to code. So if I am ever to live in a building that meets the Massachusetts housing code, I think I will either need to get a much better contract or get a different job, and I really don't want to leave this job. Thanks. Next is Manny Weinman. My name is Manny Weinman. I'm a special education teacher at Fort River and work within the Building Blocks and AIMS programs, which serves students in the district who require more intensive supports to successfully access and participate in school. I'm here to voice concern about the present levels of compensation for our unicy paraeducators. Our district relies upon the work of our paraeducators to provide needed support to many of our most vulnerable students. The work our paraeducators do is physically and emotionally challenging. Our schools would not be able to operate without the critical work our paraeducators perform each day. Yet paraeducator pay is exceptionally low. While the issue of low paraeducator pay is not unique to Amherst, this should not absolve Amherst from having to grapple with the moral and ethical issues it raises. Paraeducators often work hand in hand with many of our Unite professional staff. The vast disparity in compensation raises serious concerns about justice and providing compensation to our paraeducators that is commensurate with the critical and difficult nature of the work they do. All people desire to be valued and respected. It would be worthwhile for Amherst to consider how we go about making our paraeducators feel valued and respected. In Barbara Ehrenreich's book, Nickel and Dime on Not Getting By in America, she writes, When someone works for less pay than they can live on. When, for example, they go hungry so that you can eat more cheaply and conveniently, then they have made a great sacrifice for you. They have made you a gift of some part of their abilities, their health, and their life. The working poor, as they are approvingly termed, are in fact the major philanthropists of our society. They neglect their own children so that the children of others will be cared for. They live in substandard housing so that others' homes will be shiny and perfect. They endure privation so that inflation will be low and stock prices high. To be a member of the working poor is to be an anonymous donor, a nameless benefactor to everyone else. It is important that we question the justifications for compensating paraeducators at such a low rate, and consider what we can do to create a more just culture for all members of our school community. Thank you. Next is Jeff Kalman. My name is Jeff Kalman. I live on Blue Hills Road in Amherst, so I voted for many of you. Full disclosure. I'm here to voice my concern about adequate pay for Amherst educators. 22 years ago, my wife and I moved to Amherst because of that insignia, the book and plow. Let's not fool ourselves. The plow is much less of a part of the insignia today as it was 200 years ago, but the book remains. Well, I'm here to tell you that the book is crumbling, that the schools are not doing well. I work as a special educator, first grade at Wildwood, and my wife is a speech-language pathologist at the high school. We have a son, 17, he's a senior at the high school, and a daughter who's a freshman. We know the schools quite well to say that we are invested in this community is an understatement. I don't know when you last time you visited one of the elementary or middle or high schools was unless you were a student there. But to get a glimpse into that life every day and then compare that to the salaries that the teachers and power educators make is shocking. It is simply unfair and it is a slap in the face every day to go to work and think that I'm getting a 6% pay cut. Morale is love. Every day my wife and I come home and we compare notes. We have extensive conversations with our children about the trials and tribulations that we face. It's not a pretty picture and it's the foundation of our town to have negotiations come to a complete standstill. The way they have with the school committee is unacceptable. And on a personal level, I know that there are consequences, but the thought of striking has certainly crossed my mind more than once. So I just want to end with voicing my concern about the pay that Amherst educators are receiving. And I hope that you will understand and see that this is a critical situation because it's very clear to me that our house is crumbling. Thank you for your time. Next is Molly Cookey. Hi. I don't live in Amherst. I live in Greenfield because I can't afford to live in Amherst. I was a product of the Amherst schools. I went to the high school. I went to kindergarten in right next door to where I teach kindergarten now at Fort River. I'm a dual language coming on this kindergarten teacher. I have two licenses. I am bilingual. I teach in both English and in Spanish. Although I have the same work expectations of a typical classroom teacher. I have 40 students. I know all of their arrival and their dismissal plans. I develop and implement curriculum. I work in tandem with amazing paraprofessionals and I can't afford to live here or to vote here. And if that's a problem for teachers, you can imagine that pair of educators who are coming to school every day. They're experts on our kids, our kids who need the most support, the most love, the most attention. Many of whom have IEPs, legally binding contracts. The school committee, by not engaging with our union and not helping us get a fair contract, are putting those students in jeopardy every single day. They're putting us in a position where we have to be in noncompliance with those legally binding documents that give those students rights to access their education. These people are coming to work and they're getting paid maybe about the same as somebody who would go work at Walmart or Subway or Burger King. And they're choosing to come to us and work with these students who have significant needs because they love it. They're coming in and they are experts on what that child needs every day, the language that they use to ask for what they need, their specific behavior plan, the goals of their IEP, how to get them to comply, how to get them to participate, how to implement breaks appropriately, how to get them to and from recess and lunch in a safe way. And I'm having problems affording to live in this community and I am a licensed teacher. I can't even imagine what they all are going through in order to come to work every day. Excuse me. I am so ashamed of this town that I came from. I thought that I would be coming home when it came to work here again. And this is what has happened. It is unbearable to see my colleagues come to work and have to run out the door to go to their second or third job. And then you know they're going home and they're going to take care of their kids. I don't know how people can sit and tell us that that's acceptable. I don't know how anyone can look at their children and tell them, well, this is what we can do for you. I know that it's late. I'm going to drive home to Greenfield after this and I'm going to wake up and I'm going to be back in school at 8 o'clock tomorrow. Help please. Thank you. Please drive safely. Remi Fernandez is next. Good evening. My name is Remi Fernandez O'Brien my pronouns are they them. I am the dance teacher at Amherst High School and Amherst Middle School. My mother Elizabeth O'Brien taught in Amherst public schools for 30 years and I intend to also be teaching in Amherst public schools for 30 years. So the commitment is there. I'd like to talk a little bit about what it's like to be a performing arts teacher in a public school during a global pandemic. But similar things are happening in classrooms across the district and across the country but this is my personal experience. So if you can I would like to ask everyone to try to remember how you felt after quarantine the first time that you stepped into a room full of other people, even if you had a mask on breathing each other's air. Imagine perhaps the trauma response that's happening in your body and your breathing. And now imagine that happening in a room full of 13 year olds. We're all experiencing that at the same time we're coming off of traumatic experiences with the COVID pandemic. And then imagine asking them to be vulnerable in front of each other with their bodies and to dance in front of each other. And their peers are responding to the trauma of the pandemic by setting fire to the bathrooms. We have showed up every day and figured out how to do that. We figured out how to make students feel loved and supported and successful without ever seeing a facial expression from any of us. The theater teacher built an outdoor stage so that students could perform what they had been working on. The band teacher figured out how to work with students in four different rooms at the same time which I still can't figure out how that's possible. My students couldn't dance and breathe with their masks on so I built a 20 by 30 foot tarp in the yard outside of the dance room so that they could dance outside. I'm not a builder. Like a lot of teachers I got COVID from being at school. I got long COVID and I continue to go to school every day with long COVID. We figured it out. Why? Because we said there's no way that we're not going to be there and show up for these young people at a time like this. And I would hope that the school committee and the town council would say there's no way that we're not going to be there for educators at a time like this. Thank you. Nellie Gonzalez is next. Good evening. My name is Nellie Gonzalez and I live in Holyoke because I can't afford to live in Amherst. I am a para educator, a crocker for elementary, I'm a kindergarten para, and I work closely with the classroom teacher. I help instruct small groups in math and ELA. I also help with lesson plans and I have even built my own units that I've implemented in the classroom. I have a master's degree in education. And I am licensed in early childhood education. I love my job. I love what I do. I love the kids and I am happy to serve this community. However, I will break it down for your numbers. I make 1780 an hour. That results in about maybe $22,000 a year. That is what I get paid. I have a second job at Ulta because I cannot afford to only work this job. After I get out at 3pm, I go straight to my other job at Ulta and I work until 8 or 9pm. That's what my day looks like. I leave my house at about 730 in the morning and I come home at about 9pm. That is a long day to be working. I am still young and healthy and I can do it, but I don't know for how long I'll be able to do it. So I am currently looking for other opportunities and as much as it breaks my heart to have to leave a school district that I love and that I believe in, that's probably what I'm going to have to do because I can't afford to do this anymore. And it's taking me a total of my health, my mental health, my physical health, my emotional health. And, you know, I want to go back to a point that was made earlier that we've showed up every single day. We have been there for these kids and for the families in our community. We figured out how to do things that are basically impossible for other people to even figure out. We are not asking for $14 million. We're not asking for some crazy number. We're only asking to be paid a living wage. We're only asking to be paid enough so we don't have to have a second or third job. And some of us don't even get to see our kids, you know, because we work so much. That's all we're asking for, nothing else. We're asking to be valued and to be heard and to be seen. And we're asking Amherst to show us that they actually do value education because valuing education means that you value the people who educate. Thank you. Tracy, we've come to the end of the list. So if you'd still like to speak about the parking. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, that's okay. Thanks. Okay, thanks Tracy. We're going to move on to the consent agenda. I'm going to turn my glasses. Lynn, we still have some public comments. Do we want to take those that were, I don't. Athena. There's, there's no other hands up for public comment. Tracy said, we asked Tracy and she said no. Okay. Dorothy, you have your hand up. And then I guess I'm confused. We've been listening to these true and heartfelt comments about absolute wage inequity. I pay that same money to a high school senior to do some gardening. I mean, it's, it's, it's, I didn't know it was this bad. And number one, why did I not know it was this bad? Why is this being revealed at this moment? And don't we have something that we can do? Or do we just listen to it and think, oh my God, how horrible, how can we be doing this? I mean, I am embarrassed for the town of Amherst to think that you could pay people that kind of a wage. And think of the, the grandiosity of these four capital projects. I mean, I just feel we've been the whole year. We've been talking about these million dollar buildings with this, that and all kinds of programs. And we're not paying the people who a decent living wage who are educating the children in town. I mean, I just, I'm, isn't there something that we're supposed to do or can do or do we just listen and then just say, Oh yeah, we listened. We felt bad and we did nothing. When the finance committee meets tomorrow, they can be discussed. This is part of the financial guidelines. And as Councillor Haneke said earlier, if the budget BCG budget coordinating group, if anyone member of that group would like to meet. They can ask the town manager for a meeting. When we begin the budget discussion. This is the kickoff of those discussions. Thank you, Lynn. I thought that does clarify so there will be a possibility for some action in the future. That's what you're telling me. Again, however, we're not the ones that negotiate with the schools. We have been listening. So we must have some role. Otherwise, why would people talk to us. Right. I certainly understand why people are here to talk to you. Did you comment then raise your hand. Pam or any. I am not I don't I have don't have a solid answer for you Dorothy I'm sorry and maybe it's because at that point it was made that ultimately the town council will approve a budget and that point certainly at us. I just thought it was incredibly. It was astounding that there was but one school board member attending tonight in person, not that they have to be in person but perhaps there are some school committee members in the attendees I did not check, but Okay, good good because if they aren't meeting face to face in in their contract negotiations. I sure hope those folks heard their message and they get they get to rearrange budgets within the school it's the school budget itself. And I hope they heard it. Thank you. Shalini. I guess I want to understand the process. I know it's been said, but what I heard one of the school committee members say is that they have tried to ask for increases in the past and they haven't been so it's not like they're not listening to. But it's really the council or the town manager or, and that's where I'm lost again. It's so I don't want to say that it's the school committee who's not listening. It's. Yeah, so it's again so just so I understand if we want to initiate a change and and I also heard it's not we're not alone Amherst is not unique in this this is how it has been in our country, where we don't value educators and especially para educators and I feel that maybe it's time that we have that conversation and so where would answer that conversation would be what manager saying at the budget. Can you tell me when that is the budget coordinating, what is it called coordinating group. Yes, can we get some dates or I'm sure they've been stated before but I think this is a very important conversation that needs to be had. If you could clarify the finance committee meeting and the budget coordinating those. Well the finance committee is the finance committee of the council the budget coordinating group has three representatives from the town council and I believe it's to each from Jones library and the school committee, we've met once in. It's about January, February, March, somewhere in there. Our most recent one was summer or something like that. And we had another one to be this past summer. And it's very conceivable that either we or the school committee request that we have another one now that we've seen the initial financial indicators. I'm just waiting to hear everyone and what the process is. So, thank you. So, my understanding as to or my assumption as to why tonight was was chosen as one because we are here to listen we are the duly elected representatives of the town and while many of their educators do not live in town they are members of our deeply, deeply valued members of our community and they are not feeling that and so it makes sense for us for them to speak to us in that sense it also earlier tonight was a joint meeting with the school committee and so that was another reason why I believe they were here. And then I think that my understanding of process and I look to be corrected here is that when we write these guidelines and that starts sounds like tomorrow at finance. We can shift the levels that we set for each area rare that we asked Paul to to reach for each area so instead of saying every single department is at a 2% or 2.5% we could say schools go up x percentage. However, we can't say schools go up x percentage so that you can allocate much more money to teachers. I'm going to make a point of order. This is not an item on our agenda tonight. And I see hands and I see desire to discuss it. And what I'm going to suggest is that we go back to the finance committee with that discussion. If somebody does not agree with what I've just said, please. Could I make a point of order. Yeah, if it's not on the agenda and the council wants to discuss it they could bring it up during the unanticipated items to great. Thank you. I'm sorry. Pat raise your hand. Anika you have your hand up. Anika you have your hand up. Yes, I can reserve further comment for later but I did just want to share you know something that just kind of maybe something there for me. Can you not hear me. I'm sorry I always have comment for later but I did just something that just didn't sit well with all due respect. I think some of us here in the council are so far removed. From what it is to work free and for jobs or be hungry. What it is for just to be normal to work a 12 hour day without choice and so I do think that regardless of what goes forward in our role. I hope that we can really sit with that. The fact that people are surprised it is surprising and I do not take that and I think everyone who made a comment, but the fact that it is surprising or a shocker. That this goes on and this and people live this way in our in our community is also beyond me. So thank you. Kathy, can you wait till we have our comment later. Jennifer. I can wait I just I didn't hear what Mandy said about are we having a discussion about this or are we not having it and are we waiting till tomorrow we can have it during counselor comment period. I can also wait till tomorrow. I can also wait till tomorrow. Tracy, you have your hand up. You had it up before. Yeah, hi Lynn. So, I mean the reason I, I don't want to take away from this important discussion about the educators and what the educators have been going through. You know, my kids have been in the schools for. You know, over a decade and I appreciate all the time that educators and in all the effort they put. I mean, the reason I had wanted to comment publicly tonight was just on the parking item on Lincoln and sunset, which has been before the tack and TSO, you know, for a number of meetings and a number of years. I mean, it doesn't seem, you know, as important as this, I guess, if it was going to be moved from the consent agenda. Which I'd heard it might be, and it was, you know, previously, it had previously failed when I came up with the last council and the fall of 2021. I mean, I would comment, but maybe that item could be moved to a different night or something. I don't know. I don't know what the rest of your agenda looks like or what your priorities are. If you want to make public comment, please go ahead. If you want to make public comment, please go ahead. And because you had your hand up earlier, we'll recognize that. I mean, I can comment on this item. I just, I mean, I mean, can I ask if it's likely to stay on the consent agenda? No. Okay. I mean, all right. I mean, it is, I mean, it just doesn't raise to the same level as, you know, the other items that have been talked about by dozens and dozens of educators. I mean, just, I just, you know, continue support like the tack did put together a memo. You know, it was based on the town manager and town staff recommendations, including from DPW fire, police and so on to restrict the parking and Lincoln. And we still support that. And we also had concerns about sunset, which wasn't mentioned when it came up before the council before, but I think that sunset is really likely to face increasing pressures there. Including, I've been, I drove on census today and with some of the major construction going on at one property. It's pretty clear that there's there really isn't room for cars to poke up park on both side of the street and also have three traffic. So we just wanted to, so. Thank you. I have more remarks, but I'll just leave it at that. Thank you. Are you okay. Thank you. Okay, if I move on to the consent agenda. The following items were selected. They were considered to be routine to remove an item. Say so, after I go through the list the first time. That does not require a second to move the following items and printed motions they're under and approve those items as a single unit. A adoption of a residential factor of one equal tax rate and no open space discount for FY 23. 8b to not adopt a residential exemption for FY 23, 8a to not adopt a small commercial exemption for FY 23. 8b one adoption of proposed parking regulation changes on Lincoln have sunset have and Elm Street. 8b to approval of permanent request reserve three parking spaces directly in front of the hope community church sanctuary at 16 Gaylor Street for use by hope community church. 9a one waiver. I'm sorry, I'm removing that one. And nine a one approval. I'm removing nine a one both of them. Okay. 11 a approval of the following town council meeting minutes. October 17 2022 special town council meeting minutes work session on residential rental bylaw. October 17 2022 special town council meeting minutes public forum on appropriation outside the annual budget October 17 2022 regular town council meeting minutes. Pat, you have your hand up. Mandy Joe. Pat removed what I was going to remove. Okay. Are there any other questions or requests. Then with removal of 8b one. And nine a one and nine a one. Is there a second second Devon got here. We'll begin with the vote. Pat DeAngelis. On a Devon got here. I. Lindsey grease prison. I'm Andy Joe. Kennedy. I. Anika Lopes. I. Michelle Miller. I Dorothy Pam. No. Okay. Okay. I'm going to ask what we're voting on. We're voting on the consent agenda. Consent agenda with the items removed with the items removed. Okay. Pam ruining. I. Did you say I. Thank you. Kathy Shane. Yes. Andy Steinberg. Hi. Jennifer Tom. I. I'm sorry, Alicia Walker. She's. Yes. Shalini von Milne. Yes. It is 10, 12, 12 in favor. Want to pose. No absence. No abstentions. No abstentions. No absence. All right. There's no resolutions. We're going on to. The item that was just removed. From the consent agenda 8b. And. Pat, you asked to have it removed. So please speak to your request. Thank you. There's definitely parking problems on Lincoln Avenue. I don't want to pretend there are. Please use your mic. I turned it on. That's progress. Thanks, Pat. I'm not saying that there isn't a parking problem on Lincoln Avenue. But I'm very concerned. About how we've gone about. Deciding on a solution. There are several things that have. Could have. That weren't tried by the DPW that weren't encouraged by the town manager. And one of those is. Painting lines so that you painting a parking space. So cars would be limited to those spaces. So you know, I think we've got a lot of things going on. And clarifying where the ends of driveways are. I think it was a year ago. Guilford mooring said, Oh, but they fade. So we're not going to do that. Well, yeah, they fade all over town. But they still work. Prodestering crosswalks fade. And they get repainted. We could certainly have signs. But it's against the law to block the driveway. And we could also have regular. Traffic officers going down the street. Ticketing or towing vehicles that are inappropriately parked. The other thing that bothers me that. There was a football game homecoming. I don't know. There was parking on both sides of the street. That. I'm really questioning why the police department. Or the traffic officers didn't put up temporary barriers or knowing that that's going to happen. Came and monitored the street. I'm also concerned. I'm also concerned about element, you know, when, and actually, I was grateful because in the minutes of the meeting, the TSO meeting, it was stated that an ambulance couldn't get down the street. And it took a long time and that was negated by the fire. You know, I'm looking to hear. I'm looking to hear. I'm looking to hear. Parking made it difficult for an ambulance to get to a resident experiencing an emergency. Excuse me. And then chief Nelson stated that the crew responding to the recent incident was not delayed. That the resident had already waited five hours to call emergency services. Now I understand that because I don't like to ask for help. But it does seem to me that in this meeting. There have been no problems. Accidents, thank God, are at a minimum in this area. So to me, the issue is parking and what will the DPW, what will the town manager ask and demand of the DPW to do before we eliminate parking from eight to five on a public street that I pay for. And I still get to get an answer about why we don't do the simple things first. If they don't work, I'd be happy to do what you're saying. But until we get traffic cops and traffic officers, DPW really addressing the problem. We tried with signs. We eliminated certain parking. We made some one way things. So I cannot support this. Until we do something to see if we can alleviate it. Without eliminating free parking on the street. Mandy Joe. I'm trying to debate whether I make a motion now or whether I wait a little bit. But I think I'm going to make the motion now and, and then hope to speak to it if I get a second. So I would like to refer to move to refer the matter of parking on Lincoln and sunset between Amity and Fearing to TSO for specific consideration of both the current proposal, which is two way traffic with no parking Monday to Friday, eight to five, but one side parking at other times and the option under the TSO review criteria of one way traffic in opposite directions with one lane of parking on each street between Amity and Fearing with potential for metering that parking between eight to between eight and five Monday to Friday, September 1 to May 30. With a recommendation to the council by December 31, 2022, and with a hearing to be held if necessary. And I'll speak to it if there's a second. The motion's been made. Is there a second? I just need to understand how we have a, motion that supersedes the other motion. I never put the other one on the floor. Good question. I'm willing to hold off to the motion and speak to why I would make it. If. Yeah, that would be fine. Okay. So. TSO has helped fully adopted some review review criteria. For collector roads, arterial roads, residential roads that have widths of streets. And widths for parking that is needed if we want to have safe streets and we've heard that this. These streets may not be safe with parking on one side and two way traffic. Lincoln is a collector road at 22 or so feet wide from what I can tell. And sunset and Elm are residential roads at about 20 feet wide. The review criteria say a two way street. With no parking should be 20 to 24 feet wide, but they also say that a one way street with parking should be 17 to 19 feet wide. And all I can see is that there's only been criteria of keeping the street two way and whether or not you can have parking with two way. But I've not seen in any reports anywhere why a one way street with parking on either of these streets has not been considered, even though the street is wide enough for that. And it seems like it should be considered as part of the review criteria because we've been debating for a while, whether or not parking is necessary on that street or not, but also whether the street is safe. With parking and if the street would be safe with parking and one way. Because it's wide enough under the review criteria. I think this council should consider that option, but it has not been considered from any of the reports I've written. I have any of the reports I've read. And I think we'd be doing a disservice just like Pat said, if we're not considering all the options and this one is a specific option under TSO's review criteria. And so that's one reason I'm seeking a referral back so that there can be a specific discussion. And I think that's one of the things that I would like to point out about that particular option and whether that may be a better or a worse option than the current proposal that TSO has recommended. And I don't know what the answer to that is, but I, I think that discussion should happen in TSO. Athena, I'm going to call on you because I have a feeling you'd like to. Offer some advice. I'm sorry. I don't, I just didn't hear the second. There wasn't a second. There was not at this point. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't hear it or wanted some discussion before the motion get made. Oh, you didn't make the motion yet. I'm sorry. Thank you. So if. We would like, I can put the motion on the table that's on the sheet. What is your motion? Well, I can put it on. And then we have people speak to it. Okay. Is there any objection to that? Okay. Okay. I'm going to put the motion on the sheet on the table. Okay. To adopt the following parking regulations for Lincoln Avenue, sunset avenue and Elm Street. Parking prohibited as a tow zone from September 1 to May 30. Monday through Friday from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. on the East side of Lincoln Ave between McClellan Street and Amity Street. Parking prohibited as a tow zone on the East side of Elm Street and Amity Street. Parking prohibited as a tow zone on one side of Elm Street. Is there a second? Change seconds. Okay. Now I can go in order. And Kathy. I would like to speak in favor of this motion. And I just have to say. This has been one of the more astonishing processes I've ever seen because as far as I can remember when we were first elected. We got a petition. On Lincoln Avenue. We got recommendations from DPW the police and fire. We had hearings. We took testimony. We didn't act on it. Then we referred it to a committee which came up with a set of criteria and they came back with a recommendation. They came back with a set of criteria and they came back with a recommendation at which point. The former chair of that committee changed the way he viewed. And we didn't even stay with the criteria, which I think is good criteria. So I am completely for this because I think we need to be responsive to the people who've been trying to get change. And I have to tell you that this is not a football problem. Pat, it's 6 30 in the morning. There are cars parked. There are cars parked. There are cars parked. So this goes away in the summertime. It goes away during breaks. And it's a. Directly attributed to the fact that you mess does not. The parking lots are full. So not only are they expensive, but they're full. So we are. Not taking away. Tax pay or. Access to this we're taking pay people who don't pay taxes. So I am, I am totally for this. And I think. If we're talking about being responsive, we have put it to a committee, the committee has held hearings. And I, as I'm remembering two years ago, we had hearings on it. And we're. In a spinning motion now. So I am strongly in favor of moving this forward. And I will stop. Athena. Can you take the motion down and also run the clock? Thank you. Can I just make a point of order? I don't know if it's an actual point of order, but I'd like to see if it is. Shouldn't Jennifer have the opportunity before we're all commenting to speak to this, or is this not Jennifer. I'm perfectly happy to have Jennifer speak to this motion since she was the person who sponsored it to begin with. Thank you. I did want to say that that it had come up. The question had been asked about one way traffic just to respond to traffic. And that the, you know, Tracy's asking this chair of the transportation advisory committee had said that one way traffic increases traffic flow and speeds on streets. And it's not something that tech would recommend for Lincoln Avenue. So I'm just going to read something, I guess by just to try and be quick and by way of providing some context for those of counselors who were not at the October 13th public hearing where I gave a brief introduction to Lincoln Avenue. So by way of context, I also want to say that Lincoln Avenue is a residential street. There is only residences on Lincoln, but it is a collector road because it is the main north south access from North Hampton road and from Amnesty to UMass. So it gets a lot more traffic than any other than a normal residential street. Guilford mooring stated at the last TSO meeting that the city is a residential street. So by way of context, you know, to point out that Lincoln Avenue is 24 to 25 feet wide. So it is not wide enough to accommodate a lane of traffic and the parking that it has. And it may not be a problem for a typical residential street, but it is because it's a main access. It is the main access road to campus. The town manager stated in March of 2020, quote, parking on Lincoln Avenue has created a potentially hazardous traffic flow. It is also a challenge to residents when the parking inhibits the travel of cars going north and south simultaneously. It has also created challenges to residents exiting their driveways and is make safe biking a concern. Lincoln Avenue is one of the busiest streets in Amherst during the work week when UMass is in session. Evan Ross, who chaired TSO when the motion came before the last council stated, quote, given Lincoln Avenue is a collector roadway with high traffic for two-way traffic in a parking lane, the criteria suggests the parking should not be allowed on Lincoln. Making the need for some level of parking management, especially urgent, is the fact that in September 2023, 824 new residents will be moving onto the north end of Lincoln at Massachusetts Avenue. These are for two new dormitories, not one no resident is objecting to the dormitories were thrilled. They are asking UMass to build more dormitories. But these two happen, they are not on campus. They are on Lincoln Avenue. The one dorm, the graduate dorm, is right next door to a house. It is right on the street. There will be 824 new residents and UMass will be providing 100 on-site parking spaces. So for this reason, it is urgent that we implement some level of parking management on the street. Again, the transportation advisory committee stated in July of this year when TSO referred the matter to them, and the TAC came back and said, not only do we support these parking restrictions on this small part of Lincoln, but we also believe that in anticipation of all these new residents moving onto the street, that we should add some restrictions to one side of Elm and to Sunset. And TAC stated, quote, no other Amherst resident, no other Amherst neighborhood is facing such a rapid increase in nearby residents related traffic and parking demand with a limited on-street supply, unquote. So this is, and this is not a request that is unique to this particular neighborhood. Other neighborhoods close to UMass, including North Pleasant Street in district one, have parking restrictions specifically related to UMass, you know, related parking on their streets. So for one last point, and for those of you who, you know, again, maybe weren't at the public hearing, we're talking about one, just one part of Lincoln Avenue, not the part where I live between McClellan and Amity. So there are about 25 cars, 25 to 30 cars that will be impacted that park on the streets regularly now. Those cars have a huge impact on this residential street. And there was neighbors, you know, residents talking about a mother of three children who said she's terrified for her kids to walk across the street because you can't see oncoming traffic until you get out. And that, you know, the testimony went on. So it very much impacts this residential street, but it is a drop in the bucket of the number of parking places that have been lost on the campus, you know, due to construction. And it doesn't even in any way begin to make a dent in the demand for parking that, that UMass needs. And I might also add in terms of the commuters who, who do park there now, I mean, come September, this part of the street, you can park 24 seven, you never need to move a car. So in terms of like students that will be moving on to the street, many students, the reason they bring a car to school is because that's how they get from their homes to school, but they don't actually need the car during the day. And certainly if you're living at Mass Ave Lincoln, you'll walk to campus. So, but cars, because there's no reason you would ever have to move a car from this section of the street. There will be cars there, one would anticipate, you know, 20 for weeks, days, and maybe weeks at a time. So I'm sure when the people parking there now come in the morning, there won't be any parking spaces because of the cars that are there longterm. So we've, we have been discussing this has been come before the council for a number of years and we're the neighborhood is just asking for some relief. If it doesn't work, we can come back and look at one way, which has all kinds of it's not so easy. You'd have to make Lincoln one way, then you'd have to make sunset one way. It would entail traffic studies. So I am, you know, just there have, you know, as has been said, many people have studied this and between the town manager, between the last TSO chair, between the superintendent of public works, between the transportation advisor committee, there is agreement that this, this pretty, it's not life altering that this recommendation for parking restrictions. I think councilor Hanuk even said last year that she could support it. If it was just during the school year and this for this portion of the street, it's just being asked for weekdays from September 1st to May 31st. Thank you. Could I ask Anika Lopes town services outreach committee, how your committee voted. The vote was unanimous to refer to town council. Okay. Andy. Yes. The mention has been made in fact that this has been before the council for so long as we've had a council. I do actually have to inform you that it was also before the select board and therefore I have had the experience of having this come up even more than anybody else here in the room, because we had a whole set of hearings when I was on the select board. So this is for me and probably for Paul, an issue that never dies. And as a consequence, I hope that we do get to that point tonight where we can finally resolve this issue. A couple of things. One is the with standards that you see in the policy. We're not, did not originate from TSO in the last round of 2021. We're not, we're not having been on that TSO, which is why I've been through so many hearings on this. The, these are professional standards that were provided by billford morning and Jason skills who are our experts on the issue for the town because they're traffic engineers professionally and they are aware of the standards. So that's the question of one way. I have one additional thing besides some of the other issues that have been raised and that is that a lot of the concern that I've heard expressed by residents over the years who are, are have a back out of the driveways on the side of the street where there's parking is that it's hard to see around as they back out. It's a very dangerous maneuver to back into a busy street. I would worry that if we made it one way and Jennifer was correct that speed picked up even a little bit. It would be even more dangerous. So I would be very concerned about one way and it was not a recommendation of the advisory committee. So I for those reasons. And the last thing is that the question of painting was substantially discussed at TSO and we had a substantial testimony from Guilford that that's not a wise thing to do not because it fades entirely but for various reasons including cost and including the fact that during the winter months that there's then inevitably snow on top of it and you can't see the lines and then it's unenforceable by the police. It's actually impossible for people who are seeking to park to know how to follow it. So, you know, for all of those reasons, I felt that this was the right thing to do and recognizing that the residents who are students and what would want to park there are not going to be able to find it a very conducive thing to do because they would have to be constantly moving their car. The people we're talking about are people who are driving to campus for the day and looking for an opportunity to park somewhere other than a university lot. And, you know, that's what we're balancing against. And so I would encourage passing the motion as may is recommended by TSO. Athena, can we restart the clock please. Sorry. Thank you, Dorothy. I'd like to bring two parts of our meeting a day together. We started with our town manager evaluation and I did a lot of fast reading. We all talked about our staff being asked to do too much. And we all know exactly what we mean. So we've talked, I've been in so many Lincoln Avenue parking meetings. Yes, we talked to the question of could it be one way. Gifford mooring said he thought that was a very bad idea for some of the reasons that Andy, who is a total expert on this, just said. So it's not that we didn't think about it. We have asked for all of those things. And Pat's description of the different traffic traffic enforcement things in an ideal world. I think those are very reasonable suggestions, but in some recent communication with chief Livingston talking about safety of the crosswalks on Amity because of concern from parents and people living on the street. He discussed the difficulty in covering traffic enforcement to the level that the town's members would like. In fact, he said traffic enforcement is one of the biggest requests he is constantly getting from the members of the town of Amherst, but he's very short staffed. And things that he would like to do or theoretically could do. He's saying he can't do. So I, you know, I have these ideas, but then I ask the people who live this job and that is the chief of police and the superintendent of DPW. And they have found objections with most of those other proposals. The one that Gifford mooring said is he said parking should never be on Lincoln for the reasons that Jennifer mentioned. It's a major thoroughfare and they should not be on Lincoln. So, you know, there used to be a bad spot that was fixed. When you'd come from McClellan to go and make a left turn onto Lincoln, it was extraordinarily dangerous because the legal parking was too close. And when you got to that corner, you could not see, you'd have to get your car halfway into Lincoln before you could see who was coming. And that was adjusted. And it was that parking was moved back so that people coming from McClellan could actually see and not hit a car. And I just feel that we've gone over this again and again. I understand that people have concerns, but the experts have said, no, no, no, for so many of the other things I've mentioned. And this is the conclusion that we've come to after many, many hearings, many, many hours of work. And I do hope that we could support it. Thank you. Michelle. I want to comment on process and I want to comment in a kind spirit as possible as I can. But this has been debated now for months. It had a public hearing. It's had all sorts of input. And it's concerning to me that. Mandy came in with a motion before the first motion had even been made. That had all sorts of additional suggestions and recommendations that I feel could have been offered. To the committee and to Jennifer throughout this process. And it's just concerning to me that that's the way that we're. Working as a council. And I just, I'm not, I'm not clear on why. That happened. And, and I feel that there has been a lot of thought. A lot of input from the public, from our staff. And I think a very reasonable and thoughtful, unanimous recommendation came out of TSO. And I'm frustrated that if these recommendations. Were in somebody's mind that they don't, that they didn't get to that committee that was working and that we're here now ready to vote. And a motion gets put in front of us that we all have to wrap our minds around. In an instant. And so I just want to, again, in this kind of ways possible, express my frustration with that. Thank you. Thank you. I'll address Michelle's stuff first. I spoke to at least one member of TSO to ask about that issue. I read the reports before I let Lynn know that I would be making a motion looking for whether there was a discussion about one way streets. I saw no discussion. I had no idea whether it had been brought up or not because I rely on the reports. I had no idea. I had no idea. I had no idea what the public hearing. Because I had had surgery the day before and was barely 24 hours. Out of a general anesthesia. At the day of the public hearing and attended my own CRC meeting. And prioritized that one over the public hearing. Sometimes there's reasons that we don't necessarily want to reveal. As to why we can't attend meetings. The motion has one side of Elm Street, but doesn't say which side. I think the motion should indicate which side of Elm Street. This council would be prohibiting parking on. I don't know which side the committee would want. North pleasant street and East pleasant street are all major thoroughfares in this town. More major than Lincoln Avenue. And they all have parking on them. Why can't this one with a one way street is one of my questions. Why is this one so special that we can't have parking on it. At all. Or can't even consider parking. In fact, we just changed North pleasant street. To one way. Movement in order to keep parking and back in parking on one side and create a little more parking. But we won't consider it here when we've removed parking. If this vote goes through and we remove parking on Lincoln Avenue completely speeds will speed up. Speeds will speed up. Because it will be wide enough for cars to go faster. We'll probably have a lot of bottoms out because people will forget about the speed bumps. All I'm asking, and it sounds like this motion wouldn't go anywhere. I'm just going to vote no. Which means I'm just going to vote no on the actual proposal. I think we needed to look. At other options and one option that keeps safety in mind, but also continues to allow parking in a spot that parking is desirable for. Is a one way option. We don't have many in town, but we have some. And I still find it. I have problems imagining that we're going to say. In a spot of town. That we need the most parking, we're going to eliminate pretty much all of the parking. And that's what this proposal does instead of finding ways to keep the parking as well as keep the street safe. I papered before that hearing. Four times the cars on both streets. The only cars parking on sunset in those four different times in the two weeks before the public hearing or construction has been approved. And we're not going to have any parking on both streets. We're not going to have any vehicles working on houses. On sunset Avenue. And if we pass this motion. They won't really be allowed. To park there one side of sunset from. Elm to Amity will still have parking. Eight to five. I think it's eight to five. It might be all times. All times the other side will not have any. We're not going to have any parking on both sides of the street. We're not going to have any parking on both sides of the street. September to May. That's never been mentioned, but it does. So I think we're just removing it from one. But I'm. I just don't think we've tried everything we can, including thinking about whether one way could keep the parking that. Many people in town really do need. A little bit of clarification from the chair or the vice chair. Do we know which side of East pleasant of Elm street. Yes. Um, I mean, you might. You might actually want to ask Tracy's app and I know if you can do that. She's still in the public audience. It came from the transportation advisory committee. And Elm street is so narrow. That. I think in anticipation of all the new residents coming. They're not going to be able to come to the city. I don't think they thought it mattered. I think the city's tax said. Because on weekends and evenings, you can park. I'm looking only for the word. Is it Easter West side? No, they did. No, no. So they do. Oh, I think it's at Lincoln. Sorry. Yeah. They didn't specify on Elm because. I don't think they thought it mattered. They just said it's so narrow that. Okay. Literally cars won't get down. All right. Okay. Okay. I'll leave it up to DPW. Shalini. I just wanted to explain my vote. Why I supported this proposal. Before that, I just wanted to say there were a few residents who did not want. The change because they felt that. If there was no road parking, then contractors coming in the day or. If there was no road parking, then they would have to park. But then to that. They were residents who said that most homes there have driveways. So contractors could park there. And so that was one thing I just wanted to highlight. But regarding the safety issue and accidents issue. I asked. Girlfriend mooring. If the number of accidents that was cited for that street. Was that. Relative to other neighborhoods. Or is it more, he said, no, that was higher than. What was. The accidents on Lincoln were higher than. And other neighborhoods. So it is a cause of concern and safety. And the speeds would go up, but like we talked about this speed bumps over there. And I think the other thing that got to me was that. We're talking about 20 losing 20 to 25 parking spots. And so it's not solving our parking problem in town, but it is causing a huge, like we heard from select port time, it's been causing a lot of concern to the neighbors. And then the other thing is like, we have two specialized. We have two specialized. Explored bodies, the DPW and TAC, and both of them have. Hot through all the other options and they're saying this is the best. So I'm no expert in this. I'm just going to follow them and listen to what the resident, most residents have said there are a few who did not want it, I would say, but most have said they do want this change. So it's not permanent. Let's try it out. I think that the new residential students thing be built and see what's going on. And we can then change it if need be. But I think we need to move on. Anna. So it's not, it's not permanent, but we don't necessarily have like a pilot date or anything to revisit it. So I think that there's, it feels permanent and sometimes feelings aren't real, but I think if, unless we were going to say like and reevaluate in two years, it feels like it's, you know, my Shawnee raised the point that I wanted to raise. So I'll just reiterate it. I, this means the loss of a minimum, I believe, at least 26 parking spaces, free parking spaces. And so I think we, when we were at TSO, I brought up the idea of painting because I thought that that would be the most logical thing to do. And it seemed that the biggest concern was folks parking too far into driveways, especially after hearing from our public safety officers that they do not have a problem getting through that street when it's crowded. So it seems like from my understanding, the largest safety concern is folks being too close to the, edge of the driveway. And as was already stated, the answer we got was that it's not visible under snow. My question again is, isn't that true ever else in town? Yeah. And, and that it would require. Officers support. You get it. Okay. It would require parking enforcement support to ticket cars. And again, I have the same question. Won't this also require parking enforcement. So I'm not actually satisfied with either of those answers. I did end up supporting this proposal because I do at the time, you know, I believe that this was meeting. And I think that's why my vote was yes at the time. I'm racking my brain trying to remember. And it may have just been a conversation I had with myself in my head because I was like, why aren't, isn't it just a one way? And so I'm sorry that we did not discuss that at length. And, you know, I mean, even if I do not necessarily agree with the rationale behind it, and I believe that we went through the process that, that had been outlined by prior councils to address this kind of need. So that, that's why my vote was yes at the time. I mean, you know, I mean, I'm a, if Andy's tired, I feel like I can't even say that I'm tired, but the idea of it coming back to DSO is a little exhausting. However, I really, I, I want to circle back just to that last point of we are eliminating 20, a minimum of 26 parking spaces. And we all know the second that someone says parking, everybody's flags go up. So I think that we need to keep in mind the decisions that we've made and that prior councils have made when the topic of parking comes around again. And I will fight tooth and nail against parking minimums for apartment buildings because I believe that they, and there's data that supports that they are not good for affordable housing and they're not good for access and equity. But we need to keep this in mind when the topic of parking comes around again. And I hope that folks will remember that. Pat. Thank you. One of the things I remember most about the council discussion of Lincoln Avenue very, very early in our first term. The first few months of our term was a young woman who was a graduate student who said, what kind of town are we going to be? So it seems to me that we are going to be the kind of town that doesn't respect students as residents, doesn't respect workers as residents. There's free parking on this street, which is a valuable commodity to many people. For all we know, some of the underpaid paraprofessionals are parking there. We just assume that it's only students. But even if it is only students, that's where they can afford to park. So we're going to eliminate it because it inconveniences the residents. We're not going to try to save any of it to maybe find a balance. I'm really concerned about ongoing reflections of students as not being part of the residents of Amherst, the Amherst community. It's a kind of blatant prejudice that I'm really concerned about. So I would, I'm voting against this, but you already knew that, so that was a, but we really are turning into a very elitist town. There are problems. I don't have to, all of the parking does not have to be eliminated during working and school hours to appease a few residents. Anika. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Pat. And also, thank you, Pat. Also, thank you, Anna, for your comments. This, this definitely where I, I really appreciate Jennifer's presentation. This was a difficult one to, for me, I want to say first of all, I am not a driver. I'm just learning. I would be the first to probably back out and bang into everyone. You know, so I do not have a dog in this race at all, but I, you know, I, there are a few things that stuck up that just stick with me and I'm just really having a hard time with this right now. I'm just, I'm just thinking about, you know, there were a lot of contradictions between, you know, some resident statements and Chief Nelson in particular comments that he made. And also just in, in regards to we, there are some residents that said, please do not do this. And also the asks of some of the residents on sunset that had asked for, you know, I'm not sure if it's because of the wind because sunset is narrower. So just for me as someone who doesn't drive and has not been through this three and four and seven times the way everyone else has. And I do understand that it does seem that, you know, there were some discussion and in regards to even, you know, exploring other avenues that we did not know to consider. And especially, you know, in any way shape or form, I am concerned with the messages that we're sending to those who depend on, on those spaces for financial reasons as well. There is a motion on the table. The motion's been made in second to Jennifer. Yeah. No, I just wanted to reiterate again that this, nobody knows who it's not a matter of who's cars. I mean, they're just cars like nobody. It is, it is a matter of safety on the street. Nobody is, it's not, has anything to do with it could be all of our cars. It's just, and people, you know, aren't, there is no like parking there over the summer. So people we did, we were concerned whether, you know, that we were taken away from downtown parking. But there is, there's very little parking on the street, almost none weekdays in the summer. So people aren't parking there and going downtown. And it's not in walking distance to any of the schools. So I don't think any of the teachers or anybody working at the schools. It's not anywhere near them. And this is, there is still parking on weekends and, and evenings. So, you know, there's a lot of work. So, and there are cars parked there at that, you know, not as many as during the week where it's not like a solid line where you can't see around it. But, you know, people can, there, we're not eliminating parking in the neighborhood, but it has it. And we are only bringing it out of safety concerns. It's not, we have nothing against a particular group of people's cars. Just want to add that. Dorothy. I just wanted to repeat some of the statements that we received from mothers and grandmothers. You know, we've talked about families in town and we've been very lucky. There have been new families with children that have moved to Lincoln in the last number of years. And there's families that had children there already. We have children on our streets. And the comments that we had was that because of the intense parking, so just, you know, cars right up to each other in a, in a phalanx, in a wall, that the children cannot see to cross the streets safely. And I mean, Nancy Gooper sent a really strong petition. She takes care of her grandchildren and her grandchildren play with children on the other side of the street. I mean, children will cross the street. So, you know, I think we have to say, yes, we really are concerned about all people, but that should not mean that we're not concerned about children. We just heard incredible testimony about the people who are serving the children of this town with under very difficult circumstances. I think all of us have to value children and we have had such comments from people who are in charge of children as mothers or grandmothers or grandparents who have begged us to please do something about this overcrowded parking on Lincoln Avenue. Thank you. Jennifer, your hand is still up. No, I just want to say one last thing, you know, Jennifer, we did get a letter from Jennifer Chow. Chow, she was sitting here, you know, from the school committee who said that she drives down the street. She does, she said she didn't live in the neighborhood. She drives down. She works at UMass and she takes the street, you know, every day and that she finds it terrifying because it's too traffic going two-way traffic and cars are almost side swiping each other. So she's always having to stop, but sometimes cars don't. And we've had residents report that, you know, not residents, but other drivers on the street who don't even live in the neighborhood that their side windows are often, you know, pushed in. And but that was a letter that came to us from someone who travels on the street as a community but does not live in the neighborhood. I'm going to take, start the vote. Anna Devlin-Goth here. Can I confirm this is on Mandy's motion? No, this is. I never remade my motion. Glad I asked. Which is the original motion? The original motion. Thank you. Motion. That's on the table. That's on the floor, which is one recommended by TSO. Yes, I understand that. Thank you. I, I. Lynn Griezmer is an I. Mandy Jo Hanneke. No. I am not allowed to say anything else. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was just saying am I allowed to say anything else? I'd like to go on with a vote. But I'm sorry. I didn't see your hand up before. So yes, please go ahead. I just wanted to know. was possible that I mean I'm really having a hard time with this and I'm also listening to some of the additional safety concerns that could come up with Jennifer would be willing to put a date for review. Would you be willing to have a date that would review if this goes through a date to review just to to see how things are going to see if it if it is true that this the speed limits have increased the points that that any of the points that Mandy has brought up if they do happen would you be willing to add a date for review to your motion. So the motion would be the motion that's on the floor but it would have an amendment to it which would say to be reviewed by such and such a date you can make why don't you make the motion. I'm sorry Enika you should make the motion. It would be to review bring this back up for review I guess. It would be a friendly to Lynn and Cathy who actually made the motion and did the second if it wasn't and taken as a follow-up. You want to specifically state what that motion would be Enika. I think that would it's important for how exactly to craft it I'm not sure but I think that it would be important because we do have conflicting information and we are hearing that there are possibilities that we could end up you know taking parking away without good reason for people who need it and also if it is true that you know with the removal that speed limits would increase and then maybe that could impact the accident rate which is already high what could we have a date that we could at least come back to it to see how it is going just to ensure that nothing that has been brought up that that both Vandy and Pat have said is the case. So there's all there is not there's part of the street that has no parking now there's another part of the street that there's no I really need we need to deal with this as an amendment. You're both doing that without all right so then we'll vote on the amendment and then we'll vote on the vote it's a friendly amendment although I actually would like it to be an actual amendment. So it would be an amendment to be reviewed one year from the date of passage. How about a motion to amend to add the phrase to be reviewed by the council no later than December 31 2023 does that sound good Anika? Okay the motion this is and I'm just gonna say I'm I'm not accepting this as friendly I'm just it's a motion to the motion it's an amendment to the motion and who was the seconder but if the dorms open let's say open two months late. I will second Anika's motion to amend. Okay thank you. So there there is now an amendment to the motion that amendment is what we're going to vote on okay it is at the end of the regular motion it would be to add to be reviewed by the town council no later than December 31 2023 that motion's been made and seconded Dorothy. As Jennifer started to say that would be kind of silly because we were talking about the new dorm which would be opening just about that time so you wouldn't even have time to see the impact. Number two it was all very vague now if you want to say two in two or three years time see if the accident rate has increased because of potential speed increase that would make some sense but just to have a general open this can of worms again you know this is the most inefficient thing I have ever seen the continual conversation on this we have so many things to deal with and you have heard from the people who live on the street you've heard from people who drive on the street you've heard from people who study traffic attack people who are experts on transportation and some people just aren't going to like this but I think we should just vote the motion as presented not on the amendment. The motion's been made it's been seconded. Can I ask a question when is the dorm supposed to be completed? So 2023 is at the end of the first fall semester when it's supposed to be open. December is the date I said the motion December. It can always be amended later. Okay. Anika. Yes. I just want to say well first of all my batter is dying but if I wanted to say two or three years I would have said so. I'm not sure of the timeframe but I just think something that would reflect the concerns which seem to stem around the new dorms coming up to see how they work and I understand that we've had quite a few residents and we can have to speak and there and I know that many people are tired of this but some of us have not been around for the amount of years others have to have gone through all of the proposal. I'm not suggesting this to have us reinvent the wheel or have to go through this yearly but I think that it would be I think this is in between the two motions and would at least give us a chance to reflect and see how it is working for all involved that may utilize those parking spaces. Okay. So the motion that is on the floor is an amendment to the original motion. It's to add at the end of that motion to be reviewed by the town council no later than December 31st 2023. Anika you have your hand up. I'm sorry. I'll put it down. Okay. Michelle. Yeah. My concern with this is keeping track of it quite honestly and also setting precedent like that we can come back and we can review anything anytime. So TSO can take this up in a year. They can say hey let's look at that. Let's see how it's going or we've received some additional input. Let's talk about this again. So my concern is putting a date out there that we have to keep track of and that also sets a precedent for future actions of setting up review dates. If that's something that we want to do as a council I think we should discuss that but for that reason I won't be supporting this. So the amendments, the amendment, thank you. And I, Michelle, I agree with you. Jennifer. As Paul just said it's not going to be implemented. If we were to pass it tonight it's not going to be implemented tomorrow. Right. It takes a while to put up street. I mean what do we say we're going to let six months and see. I've never. Okay. Let's just vote on the amendment. Okay. The amendment, if you vote yes, it means you want to add this amendment. If you vote no, it won't be on. It won't. We'll go back to the original motion. Okay. To review, be reviewed by the town council no later than December 31st, 2023. I'm going to start with Griezmer and I am a no. Mandy, Joe? I. Anika? I. Michelle? No. Dorothy Pam? No. Pam Rooney? No. Kathy Shane? No. Andy Steinberg? No. Jennifer Tob? No. Alicia Walker? No. Shalini Balmille? Yes. Patty? No. I'm sorry? No. Thank you. Anna Devlin Goughier? I am. Okay. Actually, excuse me, I need to correct my vote. Yes. Let's say yes. I'm too. Getting higher. Four. I apologize. Five in favor. You said yes. Right? Okay. Five in favor. And I can't even subtract eight. No. We're going back to the original motion. So are we ready to move on to that, please? And I'll start again with Anna Devlin Goughier. I'm Lynn Griezmer and I Mandy, Joe? No. Anika Lopes? No. Did you say no? Yes, I did. Michelle Miller? I. Dorothy Pam? Excuse me. Yes. Pam Rooney? Yes. Kathy Shane? Yes. Andy Steinberg? I. Jennifer Tob? I. Alicia Walker? Yes. Shalini Balmille? Yes. Patty Angeles? Nay. Okay, so in this it is ten in favor, three opposed, no abstentions, no absence. Can I request a short recess? Can I request a short recess? Yes, thank you. We will take a short break and return at 11, 11, 10. Thank you. Can I have a more than four minute recess? Your camera's on. We're watching Shalini do jump again. A lot. A lot. When you return, please turn your picture back on. When you return, please turn your video back on. Ladies and gentlemen, please turn on your video so I can tell you what we're going to do with this agenda. That sounds pretty ominous, doesn't it? Thank you. I'm moving item 8D to November 21st, 8D. I'm moving discussion item 7A to November 21st. The town manager is going to give us a brief presentation. He deserves to be able to do this. And instead of discussing the evaluation where I've already found at least a couple mistakes or other counselors found that I had not corrected their thing. I'm going to ask people to send me, not everyone, just me, your suggested changes, okay? And then we will come back to that at a future meeting date. We'll do try to do committee reports if we need to, town managers reports if we need to, anything else? But let's let's start going. So Paul, would you like to know what you've been up to for the last year? Actually, the last nine months read my report here. Okay. I will I will be brief. So first, thank you to the council for all the work you put into it for hours tonight, but also all the work that you did previously. I'm going to make this super short because I think I'm not going to say I'm not going to repeat things that you've already seen. There's a slide deck that's in the packet if you'd like to see it. Also, the one couple points I just want to make one is as you did the evaluation, please note that this was a nine month evaluation on annual evaluation, the things I wrote were done in October, I believe I think that's when I had to submit them. So there are there are still three months in the calendar year in which and you will see some additional progress on those things in the coming weeks, which I will mention. I'm going to talk about the frag sheet. You've seen it all. And but I do want to just convey to the council that that I believe that and I think you saw tonight that our team works really hard to to support the work of the council. We've worked really hard to have the council adopt goals have us a lot have you align those have our budgets aligned with what you're doing and have our work aligned with what budget says. And that's really a commitment that I make based on your goals. So the goal setting process and the budget priorities are super important. And I appreciate the time and you're the only ones who can do it. You're the elected officials of the town. So really, when you say we want to focus on climate action, we put the effort into that. Our job is to inform you when there are things that we can't do. We can't say yes to everything. And that's one of the points I didn't have an opportunity to say at the financial indicators, there are hard choices to be made. And right now, we're sort of saying yes to lots of different things. At some point, we're going to have to say no to something and what you'll be hearing more about that in the coming weeks from us as well. So I think some of the things I'm really proud of are I'm really proud of the fact that we got the Crest program up and running. It's happening in real time. We're learning something every day, every day. It's, you know, we're being asked. We just got asked tonight to be to have make a presentation at the MMA annual meeting. They have already settled on all their workshops, but they're adding this in because we made a presentation at the managers association. Great people who are involved with that Earl really owns owns that he brings. But also the whole staff cat and Kate are really building this program and there are a lot of things to learn from it. Police and fire have been really terrific at welcoming them into their into the public safety team and dispatch as well. But nobody wants anybody to get hurt. And there's a lot of questions about how we where we send people and will they be safe? A great example was tonight we welcomed you know, we had two community responders here help with managing people hall monitors, whatever you want to call it. And in our previous life, we would have had a police officer had here when we expected a large crowd. That's just the norm in most communities you bring a police officer and we had this is the better response to that. So I think that that's that's a really positive thing. The department we couldn't have gotten a better person than we did with Pamela and all and young and having her engaged and providing guidance not just on the things, but to me on all kinds of things almost every decision is really pivotal because she's just a smart person who has who knows how the world works and gives me really frank advice on a lot of things. So she's been an incredible addition. Yeah, I go through all these things. I'm not going to do them all in all the things that lots of things happen in town. We have a lot of initiatives in play. You know what they all are. And it's this town doesn't sleep if we keep working at it. Affordable housing is really remarkable with what the community has done. But I've heard I've paid attention to what you're saying is that we need to also have moderate home ownership opportunities. And I think we might have some opportunities like that. I think that's something to articulate in the goals because I can align what our committees do as well. So we have committees who are working on certain things. And if we say this is what we want you to work on, they will do that. Let's see. You know, I think, so what else? One of the things that I'm really proud of is, you know, we got to see a little bit of it this week where, you know, the million dollars of grants all in a week are staff being recognized statewide. Amy was second getting this really remarkable award. You know, at the, you know, our staff being asked to speak at national, at statewide things like, you know, Pamela, Nolan Young, Brianna, Stephanie Ciccarello, Sean and, you know, just a million people, you know, saying come talk to us and tell us what you've learned. I think we, what the teachers and others from the school talked about tonight is real that morale is challenging in this environment when, because we have really highly qualified professionals doing their job on a daily basis and then they get picked apart. And I think that we've, I've always welcomed how much the council has, has, has acknowledged the staff's commitment. So I really thank you for that. You know, the things that you have identified, I think are very, are legitimate. The strategic partnership agreements with the university and the two colleges is a, is a, we need to get those. And I think that we'll have some information about at least one of those for you in the coming weeks. They are not required to enter into these agreements with us. It's a voluntary thing. They could say no, thank you. And they tend to, well, I'm not going to characterize this, but we've always had productive conversations with everybody, with each of the institutions. We look forward to more of that. I think, you know, I want to just credit Athena, because she does a tremendous amount. Not just, yeah, not, not, you're not supposed to do that. Yeah, you're not supposed to do that, but not just for the council, but she's our go-to person for open meeting lock request questions, all kinds of questions now. And, and also she's, she's brave to say, no, you can't do that, Lynn. And she does that frequently. And she's unabashed about it. And so I really, I think that's really, that's the type of thing we value in our community. And so I want to, want to recognize that. You know, I haven't memorized all 69 pages of comments that you put together for me, but I will not memorize them, but I will make sure that I internalize them. And I also do really offer, offer and ask to meet with you individually. What you, what you're able to put down in writing is one thing and then, but having a conversation is much more valuable because I want to improve my, my work. You know, how can we improve as a town? And so, you know, this is a feel-good little thing, but it's sort of where I am, where I feel it's been a really arduous, been a hard year. And intense loyalty to our staff because they put a lot into it. And but I have to always balance that with the needs of the community, which is always our number one goals. What are, what are the requirements? What are the needs of the community? And trying to figure that out, sometimes it's pretty complex. So that's right. Thank you. But thank you for all the time you put in. So I'm going to, thank you, Paul. And I, we've now short sheeted you twice on making a presentation. I'm going to make a few changes in the evaluation memo that you saw today because I did make some errors based on a couple things. And if people have seen others, let me know. But then I will send it back to you and I will then take individual comments about it and bring it back to a future meeting for further discussion. Mandy, Joe, you look puzzled. But I just, I'm clarifying you're going to send us one we haven't seen yet that you want us to comment on? No. I'm going to send you the one you've seen, but there are going to be a few places which I will red line and show you where I've had to make changes because I plot, for instance, I put the wrong comment in the composite memo for Pam, for Pam, twice. I used the same comment under two different categories that was wrong. And then I also found out that Jennifer, when she had her sheet, the column shifted over and so about four or five of hers weren't counted properly. In neither case does it change. I don't believe it changes anything I've said so far in the memo. I guess I'm uncomfortable with you sending something out to us that hasn't been disclosed during a public meeting that you want us to then send you back comments on instead of just sending the comments on what was produced tonight. Even if you believe they are minor changes. Fine. If you want to just send comments on what was sent on this one, that's fine. When I bring it back to the council, I will have made those other changes. That's perfectly fine with me. I do not want to try to ask us to have that conversation tonight. With that, let's see if there's any conversations on any committee or liaison reports. Mandy, Joe. I put an attempt to answer questions from the working session into this packet for the council. So take a chance at reading that. Obviously, I couldn't answer all of them and I've noted when we'll eventually at CRC get to get some of that information there. So yeah, we're chugging along. Thanks. I want to take just a moment. I'm going to get through this and then I'll mention that. Kathy and Alicia, elementary school building. Kathy. I'll respond. We have new designs that people want to be seeing them and I just wanted to make sure as the council already, I missed the last, the official town council, have you already voted on the dates that we're voting? No, that would be November 20. All we're going to do is have a discussion on November 21st. We will not actually vote the date to place it on the ballot until probably January at the earliest. Okay, because that was one of the things MSBA was asking us for. So and I was waiting. We've been in Margaret. We can just say tentative. We've said tentative to Margaret the whole time. Okay, so the newest thing that is really exciting that we just saw last Friday is outdoor learning and outdoor play with an amazingly good use of the Fort River space was still plenty of space for the open fields, but it was quite exciting the way they use the terrain and use the fact that you can study the wet lands or study the lack of wetlands during the drought and some gardens and they've gotten a lot of input from the teachers, you know, on this. So it's it's moving along and I think we're on track with all the pieces of it. And if you have a district meeting coming up, I encourage you to have the presentation that Kathy made at our district two meeting. It really, really brought out a lot of excitement and interest. So so that's thank you. I was actually going to say I would be happy to attend. And I think it's an early way. We got terrific questions at the district to that. I'm at the point. I think I can answer most of them rather than say, huh, I don't know. But no, it was good and interactive and I got it down to about a five minute presentation, you know, so so allowing it to be evocative with a lot of back and forth. So I'm totally willing to do that. And it's a 3D 360 view of the building. And it's just really it begins to create the excitement we need. Alicia, anything else on the elementary school building committee, Alicia? No, I think Kathy gave a good update. But I also just want to encourage everyone if you haven't had a chance to look at the diagrams to take a look. It is very exciting to start to see some of the things we've been talking about actually come to life with actual possibilities. Man, did you have your hand up? I have a question. I don't know whether it's better for Paul or Kathy. We have a percent for art by law or half percent for art by law. Have there been discussions about that? And I ask because if we are going to choose not to incorporate, I don't know where the discussions are. But if the choice was not to incorporate, I did those decisions need made sooner rather than later on the council, I think there was a bylaw like vote or something. It right now we're assuming that the bylaw applies. We penciled in an up to $250,000 number in it. And what we're doing with the design is the design team is going to identify a couple outdoor place spots and a couple indoor spots if we wanted murals, you know, artwork. With the thought, and I'll give you an example of what they did in another school in terms of low expense. They took artwork that had been on a previous school and the designer had it turned into a big plastic thing that could be put on a wall. And so Fort River has a couple terrific designs. So it could be reproduced and done later. So they're just thinking where a few places could be. And if we go all the way forward for Paul started to think of we have to form a committee that would be taking proposals, but you'd have to actually be saying we're talking about a mural on a wall or something here so that people would know what they were bidding on. So we're just at the beginning of that and it doesn't really have to happen as long as it's in the cost estimate till later. Okay, good. Good question of finding this committee. Andy. I don't have anything further. Great. G.O.L. Michelle. I think I heard you say you're postponing the discharging bylaw first reading to the next meeting. Is that right? Discharge your items. Okay. So the only thing I'll add is that on Wednesday at 10 a.m. Town Manager Backelman will be joining G.O.L. to talk about town manager goals. So anyone's welcome to come and attend that in the audience. Great. And I know you have a very heavy agenda and we just gave you yet one more resolution. Yes. Jones Library Building Committee, Anika. So we have not met. The meetings have been postponed so I do not have a report at this time. Okay. How about TSO? I think that we've had a thorough TSO. We've had thorough TSO. Lincoln Parking has come to rest and so we will be moving forward with Streetlight Speed Limits as well as a continued discussion around universal comfort for the next meeting which is on the excuse me it's the 10th Thursday. Thursday the 10th. Thank you. Great. Okay. Any liaison reports? Yes. I can get to my hand fast enough. I sent the council this but I would like to say it on the record the energy and climate action committee is holding a informational viewing regarding heat pumps and that is November 9th at 5.30 p.m. So it's titled Heat Pumps What, Where and How Much and it is a viewing of the video from the Green Energy Consumers Alliance and then there'll be a Q&A with folks from ECAC regarding heat pumps. So this is part of a bigger initiative they've been working on if folks are curious at all or would like to spread the word please feel free to do so. Thank you. Michelle, you have your hand up. Yes, I do. Two questions. So in terms of the water by-law and the water sewer by-laws are they back they're back in TSO and will be getting reviewed in the near future or is that We are waiting to hear back from a legal opinion. So we have not met that. Okay, perfect. And then the other question is in terms of a liaison report actually it's a question for you Lynn on the synthetic turf I'm the liaison for the Board of Health and wondering if that is going to get a review. Paul. So it was sent over to the Board of Health I don't think they said they said they couldn't look at it for a while. So I'm not sure if they have an agenda or if it's after the first of the year. So if the council is going to wait for that for them to look at it you know or they may or you can act without their advice on it they didn't seem to prioritize it as a as a need for them. They are planning are they willing to do advice on it Paul because at one point you were mentioning I believe that the school committee felt this was their decision. Yes yes the school committee has already voted and they're not changing as far as I know the last time they brought up they're not changing whether it's synthetic or not. You know that's that's a decision that has been made. So then it leads it comes to the council is to in terms of funding it whether you want to fund it as it's been presented or not. I think in finance you had postponed to the 21st. So but it was pending a Board of Health advice. Right. Do we have any other body or staff or anybody who could give us advice? So the question is do you it's a complicated thing there's arguments on both sides and it's it's there's not a clear in my reading of things there's not a clear sort of one way or the other others feel very strongly as one way or the other right. So you're looking for someone to give you advice. I think the question be to the town to the school committee you know what have you done to justify this? Maybe I don't know. The proposal is to have a synthetic turf field. That's one of multiple proposals right. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah that's the one we're operating under and we have already done two of the three pieces of money that we have appropriated to it. So the only question on the floor for the council is the 900,000 that was from free cash once it was certified and that's the one that got delayed. Right. I don't you know I don't know what else we can do. Yeah I'm just if it comes back for a vote it may create debate amongst counselors and I think what counselors or certain counselors including myself had called for was some sort of opinion on the health and well being you know associated with the synthetic. So I just want to clear it up that if we're not going to get it we need to figure that out and yeah ultimately we're going to have to vote on that 900,000. Yeah let me check on on let me let me look into it. I don't at this point I don't know where else we would get a opinion. Okay. Okay. And because the issue is twofold from what I can gather. It's a health issue and there's also been the question about PFAS. So those were the two issues that I've that is that is the health issue that the that the substances that are in a deteriorate and over time. Right. Okay. All right. Any other liaison reports? Yes. Yes. CPAC. CPAC. Just very quickly this this Thursday for those who are interested in the affordable housing proposals that are two big ones on this is when the time when they do the hearings. So you get a presentation and questions and Ball Lane which is the own own the affordable housing proposal and the East Street School and Belcher Town Road. Now some of us might have thought when we bought the land for them that we had done it but there's a $1.8 million go with proposal in front of CPAC for that one. And then on the 17th historic preservation and on December 1st is open space and recreation which includes potential a potential ask for some of the money that would go for the fields at Fort River but it's also the War Memorial Pool. So there are quite a few interesting proposals and I'll just send everyone the schedule because it starts it starts at 6.15 at night and so if you want to I'm only interested in one of these you can see it it'll happen halfway through. Right. And you may remember very early on in the tenure of this council we then had to vote the CPA so it comes to the council it gets referred to the finance committee and then comes back to the council. Okay. I'll just forward this schedule to everyone. Great. Great. Dorothy you have your hand up. Yeah. We don't need a report on the CSSJC because we've all been part of all the meetings recently and we'll be taking it up again I guess next Monday. Is that correct? On Monday the 14th that's 5.30 6.30 6.30 6.30 6.30 Okay. Thank you. Right. Okay. Anything else? Okay. Then let me just ask Paul of any highlights from the manager's report. Just two notes in the manager's report speaks for itself. The two things is Veterans Day is on Friday. There will be a breakfast at 9.30 is when breakfast will be served at the banks community center followed by a flag ceremony on the town common then Monday, November 14th at 12.30 is the ribbon cutting for the new solar on the landfill and you're all invited to that. On the other one it's called the north landfill. It's where the transfer station is. Yes. Where the transfer station is when you drive in there the way parking. Anything else? Okay. And I have a question. Yes. This is from two reports ago I think. Marijuana social consumption law. I was curious whether we were one of the pilot communities and I just don't remember whether we were but also is there something we need to do to our zoning bylaws regarding social consumption of marijuana in this town and if there is who's supposed to be looking at that? Yes. So we are one of the pilot towns we can if we choose and there's a workshop I think on Wednesday that KP law is doing and we would our town our staff have identified some things that they would like to change in the bylaw because we have some experience with it now and but the first question will threshold question will be does the council want to move forward on social consumption or not. So that'll be coming to at some point no schedule for that though. That should be interesting. Question could I need to have that explained to me what is social consumption of marijuana? I'm serious. I'll take Alyssa's role unless Paul wants to. Social consumption is the consumption of marijuana products on the premises where they've basically been bought or some other so it's like having a bar but for marijuana use. So smoking is outlawed but marijuana isn't I'm very confused. Or is this taking a pill it's the coffee shops in Amsterdam. It would it wouldn't be actually a real of marijuana blunt or whatever it wouldn't be that it would be having to take a pill because smoking is not allowed. Right. I'm getting because you tell I'm not I'm not this is a game I don't play. Okay tobacco is not allowed. Tobacco smoking is not allowed. Right. That's what's prohibited. Okay. So this might be that. Oh boy. Oh boy. Thank you. All right. On that note. Let me just mention a couple of quick things. I'm still working on juggling an agenda that has just kept being juggled. So and I will try to get you a future agendas and send out emails. I just want to also acknowledge just terrific leadership that you as individual counselors have been taking with Chalene's event the other other day. Michelle doing the event for the AHRA the public forums for rental Kathy with the schools I could just go down with each of you. You're just been terrific and you're out in the community and boy are they seeing you. So I really want to say thanks. Yeah. Thank you. So it does anybody else want to have any further conversation comments tonight? Pat are you are you willing to let the finance committee have the first crack at the discussion regarding teacher and and salaries. Chalene. I was wondering if we can send an acknowledgement except it was such a heartfelt vulnerable conversation. So just from the council could we send a letter of acknowledgement that we heard and we are are you know are going to. Yeah. And yeah. And then the second question I did have was about I guess we have to go to the finance meeting. What are the places we can have this conversation? So is tomorrow the place let's just talk about it there. Then are you talking about the public forum on the 21st of November? What? No, what the pair? No, this conversation about Paris. I'm sorry. My assumption is it will get disgusted finance. Tomorrow. Tomorrow or some as we begin the guidelines. My assumption is it will come up again on November 21st. And then there's also the question of whether or not BCG is going to meet again. Just a clarification question because I don't know what they ask is is it just for the Paris increase in salary or is it all everyone? I think we have to get full clarification about them. Paul. Yeah, so this is contract negotiations between the bargaining authority which is the school committee and the union. So the council should be thinking about what role it wants to play in the middle of a legal bargaining session where they have gone into mediation. And so this was an example of one of the union expressing what its concerns are. And you have not heard the school committee talk about what its concerns are or the superintendent. And I would just caution you about taking positions on things based on public comment only without thorough understanding of the level of negotiations that have gone on historic over the last year and a half. And where those negotiations are now because there are additional legal steps that can be taken by both parties. So just just a word of caution on that. Paul, can I just ask so I think one of the questions was it's not just this union it's the whole group. Yep. So I think that's what we should make sure we understand. If we're going to have this conversation then let's have it. And I'm going to just put my two cents in, okay. And then we can just continue to sit here tonight and have the conversation if that's what you want. Well, whatever we say with this union also impacts every other union. Town manager has to bargain with many of those other unions. Some of those contracts are signed some are not. And it's not that I don't have sympathy for people with low wages. I mean I sat in a Amherst survival center meeting three years ago where a donor basically said I'm not giving you another dime until you raise everybody's salary to $15 an hour and that was three years ago. So I'm not unsympathetic but I want the council to think about the big picture here and what our role is. That's so now let's have that conversation. Just a quick, can I just no, I'll take Chalani you were speaking. Okay, so I think that we we at least I would like to have this conversation and as a council what our values are around this particular issue. And so I just want to know where to have that conversation. It's not that I'm coming in the middle of the bargaining and all. And I did hear one of the council I think he's a chair say that they asked for an increase from last year and it wasn't given. So we keep like going like oh it's their thing that's what I was doing all along it's a school committee gives us a rep referral or gives us and then it's like it's not our job to interfere with what the school committee is doing. Last year they're the asked that the community came with was the issue around our teachers and technology teachers am I correct on that one and eventually they worked it out and we also in this last budget at once we got free cash we gave the schools more money you know we gave them half a percent right. You know I just by that just clarifies what they were referring what Peter Demling was referring to Anna Yeah I would really not actually like to get into this conversation now I think it's 10 to midnight and we are about to start these conversations in earnest at finance tomorrow so I wanted to remind folks of that and well I think that it sounds like the ask was for Lynn to put together a letter on behalf of the council that's going to and I'm not disagreeing with that I'll maybe remind folks that they can speak on their own behalf at any time and are welcome to reach out if they'd like to. I think I understand the hesitation with sending letters on behalf of the council especially given we have a role in this budget process and that role is not to enter into the union negotiations that are happening between the different negotiating teams so keep this in mind as we look at total numbers and we look at balances between percentages that go up but I'm hopeful that we can maybe start this in depth at finance tomorrow Dorothy Yes so my question is really a follow-up of what's been said when is the time that we can correctly have a say have play some role there clearly is a major catch up that has to be done for Paris first of all I was shocked at you know I've known about Paris and worked with Paris for years that I did not know that somebody would have all those degrees and certificates and still be called a para it's us getting too great a bargain at some point I feel that we need to have some input on this again we have to know when we can do it it's not good to it's like when we ask to have a raise for the salary of the town council when Darcy brought it up so that more people of we have a broader representation and council members we were told oh it was too late and I'm sure it's too late this year too so it's never time sometimes but I think we were shown a great great inequity that for thousands of reasons to do with the children's success as well as the Paris lack of a decent income at some point we need to know now is the time we can talk about it and I just feel that we have spent so much time talking about bricks and mortar and we haven't spent enough time talking about people and I think we have at some point we as a council have to show our values that's it and Andy yeah I'm going to start by just reviewing again the finance committee plan for how to deal with this because there's plenty of opportunity for having further discussion and then I have two other comments but we're starting tomorrow to just have a review of the budget guidelines discussion it's no labeled initial discussion it follows the financial indicators if there's any question about financial indicators I should also tell you that the first half hour of tomorrow's meeting is going to be about the street acceptance on Hopper and Kester line so we wouldn't be getting to the financial indicators and the guidelines discussion until at least 330 but I would assume 330 we may schedule an additional meeting that's a decision that the committee needs to make we definitely will be having a discussion just on the after the day after the budget forum where we're going to talk about this issue almost in its entirety we may we expect to receive the first quarter budget report for the current fiscal year at that meeting also from Sonja Aldrich but that's on the 22nd we assume that the 22nd is the last meeting that we're going to have as a committee before we get the draft ready to send to the council remember Thanksgiving falls in between which means we're trying to get to the council the draft in advance of December 5th meeting of the council that's the first discussion and it's always been set up that the council can act or not act as it sees fit on December 5th if it just wants to adopt guidelines that can do so but if it gives it has a lot of feedback and would like to have a redraft of sections that's built into the process so it's on the finance committee agenda again for December 6th December 19th is when it's assumed that we will have the final discussion and decision on guidelines so there's a lot that happens in between one of the additional things and I'll have to talk to coordinate with Michelle about this because we always would like to know where we're going with the the work plan for the town manager for the next year to make sure that the two documents work together because it's they're both directions of the council and so it's very important that that happens so that coordination is built into it too so that gives you a sense of the meetings coming forward where there's the opportunity the two other comments that I'm going to make are very simple one is that ultimately what we started with today was how much revenue can we assume that we have for a budget anytime we now make a decision to vary from the projections that were made on expenditures it doesn't increase the bottom line of available funds it only deals with the question of the amount of money to each segment so it's a difficult decision and if we break from the traditional path which we have absolutely the right to do of equal increases for each major category then we have to figure out where we're taking that money from to do the increase to the other and the last point that I want to make I think has been covered adequately so it doesn't say have to say a lot ultimately the council is voting a an amount for the schools period what the schools school committee does with the amount that is for the elementary schools is a determination of that school committee and as I said that I also realized that we had people here who were speaking also on behalf of regional school teachers because it's again same bargaining unit but the regional schools is an entirely different process that actually belongs to four towns and not one town and then there's the question of what is the role in collective bargaining because we don't have a role in collective bargaining on municipal employees and we certainly don't have it on school employees so there's a lot of issues that we're going to have to grapple with if we really want to have this discussion but I just wanted to give you that preview thank you Mandy Joe sorry I just came up with a question but Andy said nearly everything I wanted to but I remember the collective bargaining with Andy on the regional school the the executive side of each of the four towns is allowed to appoint under the regional school agreement I believe someone that attends the collective bargaining agreements is that still happening and who is that representative it is still happening it's me if there's no other comments I'm looking Andy did you have your hand up shall I name you just a clarification then are we sending individual letters or are you sending if she sends one we'd have to vote on it at the next meeting yeah it sends do we want to vote on just uh I'm going to encourage that you act individually individually but not on behalf of the council I think we at that point we've overstepped our bounds because they don't bargain with us yeah I mean and okay so maybe you can just be clear what we cannot see or I mean obviously we're not promising we're going to get you more anything but just like is there something that we should like is there something some language we need to include that I'm only speaking on behalf of myself and not representing the council or something if you want to speak on your behalf of yourself you are always always free to do that if you have some idea of something you think the council should vote on please send it to me and we can discuss it okay that work okay any further comments it's now midnight gang the meeting is adjourned