 I'm Marcia Jordan. I'm navigating the journey. The insight of traditions of what at the end of life, the different options, the different ways we choose, and the different people that we meet on this journey. And today we are really going on a journey. We have the, let me read this, the most Reverend Stephan Randolph Sykes is Bishop of Hawaii for the Inclusive Orthodox Church and President of the Interfaith Alliance. And Bishop, thank you. Good morning. Thank you so much for coming. This is a real pleasure. Tell us about the Inclusive Orthodox Church. The Inclusive Orthodox Church is a non-canonical Christian Orthodox Church. That was founded specifically to disengage the cultural overlays that Eastern Orthodoxy tends to place upon Christianity. And what I mean by that is, if for example you go into, I'll say a Ukrainian Orthodox Church, or if you go into a Greek Orthodox Church and if you are not familiar with that culture or that language, it's very difficult to be, to feel welcomed within the church. And so we are very definitely an American church, and that is our focus. So how long have you been a part of the Orthodox Church in Hawaii? Well, I converted to Orthodoxy, Christian Orthodoxy in 1990. I had been born a Roman Catholic. I'm in my 60s. And when I left the seminary and with my degree in philosophy from Loyola University of Los Angeles, which is now Loyola Marymount, I did not really pursue anything other than a spiritual path for a while. And I studied in depth Eastern religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jain, also Zoroastrianism, which actually could be looked at as pre-Vedic. And then I also became very involved in forms of Eastern meditation. So I spent a while with that. And then ultimately while I was in Northern California, I took refuge in the Tibetan Kaguya Buddhist tradition. And that was very fulfilling for me. And I had a very good friend who questioned me one day about my source. What was it that was really making me the person that I am? And when I really delved into that, what I realized was, well, I was actually baptized Christian. So Jesus is who I looked to. And through all of it, had always looked to as the basis for my spirituality. And rather though then returned to the Roman Catholic Church, I made a very conscious decision to become Christian Orthodox and began studying that in earnest. And I have been a member of the Aramedic Order of Mount Carmel, which is a monastic order. It has only a monastery here in Honolulu. And with that community, which is Aramedic, meaning it's enclosed, it's in the Roman Catholic tradition that would be cloistered. So at this point in time, I am the only one of the monks who is in the world, so to speak. All of us had supported ourselves. I didn't look to the church for any support. And so I am still among the working class, so to speak, and I wear two hats on certain occasions. Oh, really? Yes. So what is the other hat? The other hat I have a job in transportation planning for the state. Wonderful. Wonderful. So we wouldn't recognize you without? No. And it's very interesting to run into people on the street when I am in my robes. Yes. It happens every once in a while. So when you said that you took refuge in the Tibetan Khajiya Buddhist, what do you mean, take refuge? Taking refuge is simply deciding and accepting that one is going to follow the path of the Buddha. That's all that it means. It's just a terminology that they have. Oh, okay. So let's go back now to you are also, among other things, you are the president of the Interfaith Alliance Hawaii. Yes. So what is the Interfaith Alliance Hawaii? The Interfaith Alliance Hawaii was formed in its current iteration in 2003. It is the successor to the Hawaii Council of Churches, which was disbanded shortly before that. That organization traced its origins back to 1927. And among the original founders of the Interfaith Alliance Hawaii were people like the Reverend Samuel Cox, Reverend Allison Dingley, Sister Joan Chatfield, a number of people who are very active in the interfaith movement. Is Reverend Barbara Grace Ripple? Yes, actually Barbara Grace Ripple was involved. What was his name? McPherson? Church of Crosswords? I think it was McPherson. Anyway, that's all. Yeah, I'm sorry. But the other very important person at that time was Bishop Yoshiaki Fujitani, who was at that point the Bishop of the Honpahang Wanzhi. So the organization is the local chapter of a national organization, which is called the Interfaith Alliance, just Interfaith Alliance, none of those. The organization is a non-membership organization, but is open to the public. Everything that we do, we have an annual community awards dinner. We do various programs for just informational purposes. And we also host both the Interfaith Open Table, which means monthly, as does the Interfaith Conversations Windward. Wow. So there's a lot of interfaith alliance. What do you mean by non-membership? We don't charge anybody dues to be a member, that sort of thing. I mean, if people want to make donations to our organization, they're certainly welcome to. It's a bona fide 501c3 organization. But at the same time, we don't. We maintain a mailing list. We don't maintain a membership roster. So do you have to be clergy to belong or can lay people belong? Anybody can belong. Believers as well as non-believers. And we have quite a wide range of participants. We have Buddhists. We have, for a while, we had a Zoroastrian. We have Catholics. I would love to be a Zoroastrian. I have always wanted. That just sounds so exotic, so wonderful. Unfortunately, in the Hebrew, passed away some years back. But she was quite an amazing woman. She was an economist up at the University of Hawaii, Manoa. So you have all of these different faiths and traditions. Yes. I want to talk to you. Well, you come from a Christian tradition about the end of life options and choices. But since you've studied all of these others, can we talk about some of the others? Absolutely. Let's start with the Tibetan Buddhists. And what are their feelings? How do they deal with these options at the end of life? What did you see that was a different or not so different? Well, something that's important to remember about Buddhism is that the Buddha, Shakyumuni, was originally a Hindu. And so the concept of reincarnation is something that has come into the Buddhist world. And so, for example, the current Dalai Lama is the reincarnation of a prior Dalai Lama. And the thing that one in Buddhism emphasizes is compassion. Compassion for all living beings. And there is something called the bodhisattva vow, which is that one agrees to be reincarnated as long as there is anyone who still has not reached enlightenment. So that's a long, long, long journey. Yes, that's a long journey. So let's talk about some of these other traditions. First, let's complete with the Buddhism. As the person is terminally ill, as the person that's a Buddhist, I know they don't even kill ruchas, but as a person that is in those last stages of life, they're terminally ill, how would they deal with that? Do you know? I only know of or have been friends with one Buddhist who went basically through the passages or into the bardos. They refer to the stage after life as the bardos. And it was quite beautiful. This was a person who was not only very knowledgeable but very spiritual. And so he had had leukemia and had reached the end stage and had lapsed into a coma. And there was a group of people who were around who chanted. So we had chanting going on. There was what I would say quiet music that was being played with cymbals and bells and those sorts of things. And someone was a lady that he was very close to was whispering one of the sutras or one of their prayers into his ear. And at a certain point, he was connected to a medical device so we knew the point at which he actually passed. Beautiful. It was beautiful. You know, we have to take a break and I think before I lapse into another long piece, I think this is a good time to take a break and we'll be right back with this wonderful, exciting journey with Bishop Sykes. You're watching Think Tech Hawaii, exploring the world we live in, recognizing the changes around us and looking into the future of our lives together in these islands. Great content for Hawaii from Think Tech. Aloha. My name is Danelia, D-A-N-E-L-I-A. And I'm the other half of the duo, John Newman. Welcome. We are co-hosts of a show called Keys to Success, which is live on the Think Tech Live Network series weekly on Thursdays at 11 a.m. We're looking forward to seeing you then. Aloha. Hello. My name is Crystal. Let me tell you my talk show. I'm all about health. It's healthy to talk about sex. It's healthy to talk about things that people don't talk about. It's healthy to discuss things that you think are unhealthy because you need to talk about it. So I welcome you to watch Quok Talk and engage in some provocative discussions on things that do relate to healthy issues and have a well-balanced attitude in life. Join me. Aloha. Welcome back. I'm Marcia Joyner, and we are navigating the journey. If you would like to talk with The Bishop, you may call in 415-871-2474. Now, Bishop Sykes. Aromatic? Aromatic? Aromatic. Aromatic. Aromatic. Aromatic essentially means hermit-like. And if one studies many, many religions, but especially Christianity, one of the things that was true of the very early Christian church was that there were a couple of dynamics that caused both men and women to move from the cities into the desert. So we speak of the desert fathers and mothers. Many of them wrote down, or there were sayings of theirs that were written down. The most important or most widely known of these documents is the life of St. Anthony that St. Athanasius, who was Bishop of Alexandria or the Pope of Alexandria, wrote. The idea of being a hermit is one where one essentially leaves the world behind as much as possible. Now, we all are dependent somehow on others. But in order to leave the world to spend one's time praying and fasting and doing good works, there was a real emphasis if one was a hermit and some travelers came along, no matter what little one had to offer, one would certainly welcome them with joy. And so it's a longstanding tradition. And the Aromatic Order of Mount Carmel also looks back to the Old Testament to the early Jewish prophets who lived out in the desert. John the Baptist, for example, spent a lot of time in the desert. But we look to Mount Carmel, which is a traditional focus of many Christian orders as sort of our home place. So we're talking about end of life. How would they approach the end of life and a terminally ill member of their society, their order? Well, I can't speak for what occurred in ancient times. But in terms of our own order, for example, our oldest member became very incapacitated. This was some years back. And he was in his 90s. And he made the decision at a certain point that he did not want to continue receiving treatment for what was actually a quite painful, I'll call it an injury, that he had sustained. And so he spoke with his doctor. And you may be aware of Dr. Nathanson, who has done a lot of work researching Hawaii laws. Now, I know Blake Oshiro, the representative, has introduced a number of bills concerning assisted suicide. Now we... No, we're not going to go there. But what Dr. Nathanson let us know was that during the era where Hansen's disease was a problem, back in, I believe it was 1909, the territorial government passed a law that allowed doctors to recognize that certain people may make life choices at a certain point where they don't push intervention on the individual. So the doctor that our brother Monk saw understood. And of his own will, he fasted to a point where he gave up eating, he gave up drinking. And when one does that, on the one hand, it's a spiritual practice. We do it regularly. We fast on certain days. So having said that, after, I would say it was about two weeks, the doctor came and indicated it was appropriate now for hospice to come in. And Dr. Nathanson was one of the founders of Hawaii Hospice. And so hospice came in and he passed within about five days. So let's go back. You mentioned that I really don't like that word suicide because that is scary, that is not what we're talking about. We're talking about choices for a person that is terminally ill, who will never get well, and who do they have this right to choose. Now tell me this, what does the Bible say about free will and choices? Well, I think the most important thing, first of all, is to recognize that the fifth commandment is thou shalt not kill. And that applies to other persons as well as to oneself. And there is a point that I believe each person reaches in her or his life where their health may be degraded to a point where they are incapacitated. They may be in very much pain. And what I think we as a society have as an obligation is to provide them as much comfort as possible during that. I don't think we are obliged in any way to tell them they may or may not do something, particularly if they're a sound mind. And at the same time, I think it's very important that people recognize that there are ways, especially through hospice, to have the palliative care that can help make the transition easier. I think of it in terms of stepping through a door, just like birth. In birth, we step through the door of our mother's womb. And when we die, we step from this world into a world that we can only imagine. There are thousands of tales of what happens on the other side of that door. Well, my sense of adventure says it's got to be great. I'm of the same opinion. I believe it to be a door through which one gains much knowledge and experiences joy. Now tell me, in the Orthodox world, these last days, the choices, what is the tradition in the Orthodox Church? Well, the tradition actually in both the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Churches are very similar. There is actually a sacrament in the, it used to be called in the West Extreme Unction, which was the anointing of the extremities of the body. And it's now called sacrament of the sick, because it's recognized also that it as a sacrament may have curative properties that would help one overcome the sickness. So in the Orthodox Church, one would, again, these are under ideal circumstances. I mean, if something tragic happens like a car crash or something like that, it's not going to play out. That's different. That's different. But under the best of circumstances, one would ask for a priest or a minister or someone to both help them through prayer. I think it's extremely important that whoever is providing the help is non-judgmental. So even if the person who ends up being called, let's say as a chaplain in a hospital who may not be Orthodox, not attempt at that point to convert this person to something they're not, but rather just to provide, again, comfort. If they understand the rituals of the anointing, we have holy oil that's blessed specifically during holy week that is used to anoint the forehead, the heart, the hands, the feet. And it's seen as a means of helping through transition because, again, there's simply a movement going on. It's like one door closes and, or actually it doesn't close, one opens another door. Well, we only have a little time left. I want to talk about the choices and how we as a society can begin to talk about this because it's like we don't talk about death, but we need to have this conversation. Oh, yes. How do we open it up to everybody that we can have this conversation without fear or drama or whatever? Right. I think it's, first of all, important that all of us recognize we're all going to die at some point, and we all need to be prepared for that. Now, that preparation, most importantly from my perspective, has to do with one's spiritual state, that one is at peace with oneself, whatever that means for that person. The other thing is there are legal things one needs to address as well to make sure that you have an advanced health care directive and wills and that sort of thing, just so your family is protected. Well, we are just about out of time, but this has been wonderful. Will you come back and talk to us again? Absolutely. I really appreciate this opportunity and I'm grateful that you are holding this series because I think this is a very important topic.