 What up everybody we are back Yes, we are This way my to my right What's happening so we're back again we did this last month and we said you know what we should probably just do a thing Monthly just to come up with some stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, for those of you who do not know if you're watching on but whatever my channel happens to be whatever This is Lauren Rosen. She is at the obsessive mind on Instagram. You should go check her out Yeah, thanks for coming by as always so he's fun to talk to you today We're gonna talk about Yeah, our topic today is but I don't want to do my exposures, but I but I want to do my compulsions Yeah, yeah, which of course we do like not want to do exposures and or not and want to do compulsions however There's another side to things that that in recovery we've got to explore, right? I bring it. What do you got? Well, I think that Stopping at I don't want to do my exposures or I want to do my compulsions negates about half of an individual it's it it's true and There's also the part of you that does want to do your exposures and the part of you that doesn't want to do compulsions that shows up for Therapy or support groups or even on the Instagram or whatever just just trying to get support and to to recover and so People are so identified with this part of them that doesn't want to do exposures that it does want to do compulsions and I think Sometimes people who advocate for recovery can be sort of in this almost adversarial position of like advocating for recovery and then it takes away from the person's actual desire to want to change So I think it's important that we recognize that it's Both right like it's I want to do it and I I want to do the compulsion and I also don't want to do the compulsion And it's totally normal that I have the urge and that I want to and at the same time I don't have to and it probably would be better served by not doing it I like it That's a trying to serve two masters thing like I want to get better, but I also want to be comfortable right now So tough tough call. I can't really serve both of those masters all the time. No, unfortunately not I like your the statement you just made like people who advocate for recovery So I just want to make sure I'm understanding like you you are I people like you are I We have to be careful about Pressing people into a corner where they feel like no, no, you have to do it this way Like you're not where we're not validating that other half of them that says but I but I'm afraid but I don't want to do this Right that point. That's absolutely it and in addition to that it's even by saying you should do your exposure work or Sort of being too much of a cheerleader At some stages it can take away the agency from the other person. It's sort of putting like creating this This back and forth. Yeah Where one person is advocating and the other person is sort of like pushing back and saying well But I don't want to like I see this if I can clarify a little bit When people are out on their own throughout the week. Sometimes they'll say I think Lauren would want me to do this I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I I want you to do whatever you want to do. Yeah, and What whether or not you do compulsions? It's not a moral question. So You know, it's not like you shouldn't do compulsions You'd probably be better served by not doing compulsions given where they lead you But it's not about me. It's about you. What do you want? Like don't externalize the part of you that wants to change and put it on me as much as of course like of course I want people to get better Well, they would assuming that they're they're engaging because they want to so I get that but yeah Yeah, but does that make sense that if we actually makes really good sense I see two things there number one is the you know, you don't back a wounded animal into a corner Which I can completely get that in my worst days I knew what I had to do but somebody who told me to do it and do it that would not go well at all like There's discomfort there's fear there's anger and then that that becomes a resistance like no stop telling me to do that And then the other thing is interesting because I actually made a post about this the other day So it's so fascinating that you brought that up I wasn't expecting to talk about this and basically what I said was you should expect your report your support Your support system if you will including I guess your therapist or your counselor counts your online groups Whoever the people you follow Instagram to cheer for you and tell you that you can recover Do not expect us to tell you that you should Because everybody is free to make whatever choice they want all the time and that choice should be expected So I should be respected. I'm sorry not expected But and I think that speaks to that a little bit like I can't I'm not going to tell you to do these things I'm just going to tell you that you can Then from there and you know from one day to the next it might change one day You might be really going ho to do your exposures or not do your compulsions and the next day It flips and you just feel incapable. I get that. Yes Yeah, but having I love that that having the support system say that you can and recognize your capacity without ever saying what you should be doing or Or telling you what to do I believe in my heart that that is an individual everybody has a honestly I feel like everybody has a right to not recover if they choose that that's okay Absolutely, I would stand behind somebody who chooses that. Yeah Yeah But to your point knowing the implications because I think a lot of people Want to have both and I understand I've been there too Yes, I get that It and it speaks a little bit too. Oops. Sorry. I'm getting notifications. Um, it speaks a little bit too There are times when I In on my platform in my community where I have found myself in a position where somebody is asking They're arguing that they they don't want to do the or they shouldn't or they can't do these things And I have to step back sometimes and say wait a minute here I'm not here to argue to to convince you to recover I will cheer for you if you decide you want to do that So do you find you know and especially in in a therapeutic relationship with the client Do you ever find yourself in that position or wait a minute? I'm not here to tell you what to do. I forgot Yes. Well, yeah, because we do want people to get better. I think especially if you have personal lived experience whether you're uh, a therapist or not that They're Get into that position of advocating for change and then realizing. Oh, whoa. This is not This needs to be yours Yeah, and if it's not if you're not taking the reins here The the change won't be sustainable because you're not doing it for the Right reasons I suppose That leads us down to that whole like everybody needs it's so funny because I always say everybody needs sometimes to lick their wounds sometimes like that's okay You know, I kind of I wrote about that too where like hey, look when you're having a bad day It's okay to have a bad day put some time aside where you can hate the world and be angry and resentful and disappointed and sad And crying curse and hit a pillow whatever That's okay to do that and on those days you may be more in that mindset where you're like, you know what? I'm just gonna do these compulsions today because like just I just need to today Yeah, okay. Yeah, see me again tomorrow then it wasn't tomorrow's a new day. You never know, right? Absolutely, but I think I really love what we're talking about of handing it off as like this is not This is not about you being good or bad. It's not about the right or the wrong thing to do. It's There everything has a Everything has causes and conditions, right? And so the the If you take an action, there will be some sort of a secondary effect if you want that secondary effect then Then do that if you don't then probably do something else. Yeah, which is very sad Yeah, but if I think especially with the the sort of over overzealous advocating And I've certainly done plenty of that myself in my day that Unfortunately, it's sort of like telling somebody to to go put on a coat when it's cold outside, right? The initial response is I don't want to put on a coat. Don't tell me what to do, right? Even if it's even if it's With the best of intentions and having that sense of autonomy in it and independence and like no I'm doing this because I don't want to be under the sway of my anxiety at this point That That's I don't know That's the only way I think ultimately no, it's good. I'm good thing you weren't my mother because I never wanted to put on my coat Don't tell me to put on the coat. It's such a so funny that you put that I know it's freezing it. I would intentionally be like freezing just to yeah. I'm not putting on the coat Forget you. I don't want to put on the stupid coat. Yeah, that could be a personality trait thing too So for some people, I don't do well being told to do I freely admit that call it a flaw if you will so somebody who's Overzealously advocating for me to do the right thing could that could backfire a little bit? But what about on the other side because that's interesting too? I don't just agree I think some people are more inclined to push back and not want to be told what to do But then there are that I do that but I know that Which I totally and I get it I do I think I think to some extent we all do it and I don't think it's an unhealthy thing I think it's just a reflection of a desire to be autonomous But on the other side of things there are people who want to be told what to do right they want to be led through it piece by piece and That's that's equally a problem because if you're doing your exposures because it's right or you should I don't know. I think oftentimes it's it's done It can be done with the intent of trying to eradicate the disorder like and and not with the intent of Like I'm doing this because I want something different Like I want a different experience. Yeah, this is such a good conversation. It's very nuanced, isn't it? Like it is I feel like I feel my my will is turning as I'm talking. Yeah Yeah, it really is and I think this speaks a little bit to you're right Some people well, some people just need the encouragement a little more. Well, I'll call it encouragement You know, they need a little more whatever handhold and coaching whatever you want to call it This is where the limitations of social media to me come into play and you have to realize like I I don't know you, you know, if you're watching this video I I don't know you there's like 10 of you maybe that I really know that might be watching this But otherwise, I don't know you so I don't know if you're somebody who just maybe lacks some confidence and needs more cajoling or Cheerleading or if you're somebody who's a little bit more. Don't tell me what you have. We have no idea Right. Yeah, and this is where it becomes really important to understand the difference between accessing psycho education and encouragement on on instagram or youtube and actually having a therapeutic relationship with a clinician right different it is because because of that nuance and Yeah, and and knowing What the person Needs and the thing is it's all down to the person ultimately even if you are in a therapeutic relationship the the hope is that you are going to gain awareness about Oh, I need more. I need more encouragement today or I need more um I need some tough love and even to ask for it when you can I think Ultimately, you're going to have the best awareness of yourself. Yeah. Yeah Let's look for a second about one one thing that I found interesting too is and I have to go back to this statement My community often I have to literally say like in my facebook group You by definition, you cannot disappoint me or this group Because some people will like oh, I feel like I let you down what you can't let me down I don't know you and and I have no What's the word I'm looking for here um skin in the game Yes, that's exactly right. Thank you. I really don't have any skin I want to encourage you and I want to see you get better. I want I want you to get what you want But you cannot disappoint me or you can't disappoint lauren by maybe doing your compulsions that day even though she said on instagram You shouldn't right and that's I think what I was trying to get at maybe somewhat clumsily with the the question of somebody doing Like doing exposure work or not doing compulsions because they're being told to and they're trying to do it Right that that you're you're now in this paradigm where you're you're still trying to To to get the gold star or which I think It it ultimately can backfire because when you don't do it now, it's oh, they're upset with me or I'm bad as opposed to just Oh, no, you're just you're you're doing your thing and and this happened and it's okay and And Nobody's upset with you. Nobody's gonna think poorly of you. It's it's down to whether or not It's serving you and that's again at that point picking it up and saying, okay. Well, it's not serving me. That's where the the Vivacity of recovery comes from The vivacity recovery. That's our next book people look for it Good Yeah, that's that's really good at look getting looking for the gold star I think is a lot of people do fall into that trap like I want I need validation or at least one confirmation that I'm always doing it Right, but I'm sure I tell people like hey look maybe today wasn't the best day Maybe you fell back into some old habits. We all do it. It happens to everybody What can you learn today? And then what can you take into tomorrow? What lesson from today? Can you take every day counts even when it's not maybe the best air quotes best day, right? In fact, we learn so much from those days that are probably not what we would consider to be the best days That sometimes those are the most important days. Yeah, and they're sometimes the most distasteful lessons I know for me one of the lessons I learned from my I don't want to do it days was that I was using I was Somebody posted about this this morning, too, which was really good and it's so funny You ever open instagram and see your own words and it's oh So it was it was really a little weird at 6 a.m. But uh I found that I was using rest as a reward and like oh well I did this really hard thing so I can you know, I'll just chill out for days And that so those bad days and those days where I was resistant taught me that but that was a really distasteful lesson For me to have to learn about me So yeah a real negative feedback loop there like I'm having a bad day and that's showing me lessons that I wish Have to learn right. Yeah. Oh, I don't yeah yeah, and I think I just sort of spinning off of of the lesson itself It's interesting because the the reward is Trinsic to the doing of the hard things. Yeah. Yeah, and I don't think everyone realizes that coming in to this process because Yeah, it's like no that the end game is what we're looking for and I think actually that the amount of Self-esteem self-worth right of the the sense of efficacy That you get from doing the hard things But it's so empowering and I think that that is in and of itself a reward that people oftentimes overlook I would agree and I would think that every exposure every experience stands on its own to a certain extent too There's a lesson and they all serve a purpose whether they're good bad Otherwise you were perfect. You weren't you made mistakes, whatever There's every one of them stands on its own as its own experience that matters They're additive. Yes, but if you're only going to look down the road and only keep your eyes on the on the prize You're going to miss some of that and I think that adds to resistance too This individual thing felt crappy and it's I don't want to do it But no, but that value doing it had the value the value. Yes Yeah The value is in the doing it the value is in the experience that you had recognizing that you could do it the Value is also in one of the things that I know from my own recovery And I've seen it so often and the people that I work with is recognizing that there's actually a lot of peace in dropping In particular mental compulsions That there's actually like moment in the moment peace and saying I am going to accept uncertainty It's very uncomfortable still so it's both there is also relief of I don't have to figure that out anymore. I don't have to do it. I'm free of it in this moment Now it may in a couple other moments come back and I may be you know back in the the the swing of things, but So there is a lot that I think comes that comes from all of those experiences the good days the bad days and and each of the The momentary stuff that we're talking about Yeah Yeah, this is a great conversation. We could do this for the next hour. I'm sure but I believe we probably could Wrap it up within about 20 minutes or so. So This is what's the takeaway here Let's let's wrap this up. I don't want to do my exposures. I've been I wanted you my compulsions today What would you tell would you tell somebody? I think I would tell them to consider Why they don't Want to do their compulsions or why they do want to do their exposures to both hold the fact that they they do want to compose so they don't want to do exposures and Acknowledge that and even validate that of course. You don't want to do them today and also We're going to do them anyway because I want this I want a sense of empowerment. I want a Sense of agency around my life. I want momentary peace and not being in the rat race of trying to figure all of this out um And I also want long term to be in a place where my My thoughts don't have such a hold on me and my feelings don't get to dictate what I do So that's I don't know. What what about you? What would you say? That's a good question. I think I would tell people that it isn't always either or That's crazy that look this might be dangerous ground to going because I'm not trying to I I'm the last person to get people in out But There are days when you feel like it depends on why you don't want to do it If you're just exhausted that day because this is hard work and like I just need a break I get that and taking a break because you're just done. You're out of gas from all this is perfectly valid But it doesn't have to be black or white. Maybe you could do an exposure standpoint I always tell people what if you did something really tiny instead of just laying in bed all day Go and sit in your garden for 10 minutes and then go to bed if you want to At least you did something so you don't look back and say well the day was a total loss Yeah, so it's not always black or white doesn't have to be either That's so true and I love your point about about the just I know we're wrapping up but the the the element of It depends on where you're at There's no one-size-fits-all answer to this and it's not like you should always or you would even be best served to always do Your exposures and and there are days when the the best answer for you is going to be to take it easy Yeah, and but that's it, but it's such a moving target. There's no there's there's just no yeah Awesome, we're going to do this again next month. I don't know we're going to talk about next month But we'll do it neither. I'm looking forward to it though. That was great. Well. Thank you so much lauren This is always so much fun talking to you for those of you who do not following lauren I'll put it back on the screen So lauren is at the obsessive mind on instagram if you're watching on one of my channels I'll put me up on the screen I think you should and for those who are directed here from from my channels Drew is amazing you should Check him out on instagram and you should also check out his books because he's he's awesome in so many respects And then he's got the podcast too Man All right guys, thanks for coming by we will see you the next time we do this Bye later