 Hello and welcome to the run-up today. My name is Nyam Ghul Aghgadi and it's always a pleasure to be on the show To talk with you knowing that you're there watching us right here It will be another amazing time to dissect some matters arising on the run-up and the run-up to 2023 as it is Some of the items on the front burner are the fact that tinibus performance at Chatham House in UK has continued to draw Diverse reactions particularly from the opposition parties and supporters who were dissatisfied by the candidates decision to throw some of the questions He was asked to the APC chieftains including the Kaduna State Governor Malam Nasir El-Rufai and immediate past governor of Iqiti State Coyote Fire Me. We'll be looking at the reactions from In this interview that we are going to be having shortly with two gentlemen that will be talking to us And we also have a secular that has been given Just yesterday, I think by the Central Bank of Nigeria about how transactions are going to be made after they or in January or from January 2023 and so many people are reacting to that But we're not talking Intensively about that today. We'll just mention what the provisions of this secular are and what you are going to expect in 2023 when the new Naira Will take its place and they the old ones will be edged out of circulation But like I said, we'll be talking with Mr. Alexa Wilcox who is a public affairs analyst and also with Mr. Theophilos Akatuba right after this break. Stay with us You're welcome back. It's still the run-up and we're looking at what happened at Chatham House in the UK Where the presidential candidate of the APC went to address the press? I remember that other presidential candidates some presidential candidates were at a Presidential debate as it is organized by a media house, but he went to the United Kingdom and he Granted an interview to the press there and he ruled out his plan for Nigeria in 2023 and beyond and so people are Reacting to whatever happened there What the interview was about how the interview interview went and so many other things around that but we have like I said Mr. Alexa Wilcox who has joined us here this morning. Mr. Wilcox, welcome to the program Thank you It's good to have you here We also have Mr. Theophilos Akatuba also standing by to talk with us on the issue. Mr. Akatuba welcome Okay, that means I've done a reunion for everybody here on the show today Okay, well, let's go through the business of the day No matter what divide anybody might be let's just try to x-ray what happened at Chatham House First of all, what is your take on the fact that it had to be Chatham House in the UK? And then how the interview went let me begin with you, Mr. Wilcox To Chatham House It's not out of place that Bola Mettinbo was a guest of Chatham House Chatham House is equivalent of our own issue of international affairs in Nigeria or something above that That's that position because it's a policy Making a body is a policy advisory body that culminate views that takes views from every part of the world from notable people from the world in order to be able to To chat a cause it's a research house And so if you invited the other means you have something of value So I want to congratulate the Bola Mettinbo for being a guest in Chatham House it's just not anybody that can go to Chatham House and make Statement and then be that that is me I think his performance at Chatham House is just there to display to tell the world his position his policies and programs as a president candidate trying to Time to be the president of the most popular nation or a black nation of the world And so that platform was very very apt very very important and from there the entire world I mean the entire world the entire world today has heard of his program has heard of his Manifest to he has been able to break it down and tell them so that they will know what and what is about to do And of course Nigerians to relations on it because from the video. I saw various questions come from various Nigerians and non-Nigerians in diaspora I mean trying to extract or trying to prove or trying to pierce through the manifesto He declared his programs and plans so that they have a better understanding and a better view about him about his programs And what else for the Nigerian people so for me it's a it's a it's a wonderful outing and I salute him And I salute the the Chatham House authority for giving the platform. I think it's something that should be encouraged. Thank you very much Okay Mr. Akatu bar your take on Tinibu in the Chatham house and how he performed in the interview It's our cat over please. Yeah Hello, Mr. Akatu bar. Yes, I'd like to get your own take the performance of Tinibu in Chatham house first of all the fact that he had to go to Chatham house to grant a present of you which Nigerians have been clamoring to hear from him Yes The place where serious-minded people go and interrogate their plan and if you have a plan that you know is Solid and globally relevant to make it a better for the global community to interrogate you and also point out Flood for him to have gone to that platform is the level of confidence that they have in the plan they have put forward for Nigerians to make a decision And that platform is also to reach out to a very powerful Nigerian community in that for Sometimes we are saying that they should vote if you are asking them to even vote in the future They don't also necessary that you present your manifesto because they also stay order even if they are not going to Incaught in the battle the influence before they are familiar but whole and in fact they have a very loud voice on the social media and so it's a very strategic move and the outcome of it is highly commented and I think We must be proud of the president the man who is contested for that office. They are such a Strategic outlook to issues and that that's the pride that I have and I'm very happy When he spoke before the questions, you can see that is someone that understands the theory and understand the whole Okay, well both of you have Spoken well and you commend his efforts you commend whatever happened there that he had to go to that place And both of you also have said that if you're serious minded, let me use the word of mr. Katuga now I'm remaining with you mr. Katuga that if you're serious minded you go to that place and Expose your manifesto to the world as it were now Does this mean that anybody who does not go to Chatham house is not capable of ruling Nigeria? Because a lot of people even call this going to Chatham house all the time like a colonial mentality What would you respond to that? What will be your response to that? If you don't go to Chatham house, then you are not qualified That is not there the other point is that Colonial mentality where you are speaking to your community Who you know beef in these places and you have decided to go there to interrogate and interact with them It's out of respect out of recognition for that consequence And so it doesn't disqualify anymore But it brings your your idea to global interrogation and it makes it even better and illuminate it better for Nigeria At home abroad and the global community who have been interacting with the future president They should put a stop for the quality of matters coming together and build a level of confidence and they prepare them for future Engaged, you know, I'm the one thing Okay, I'm into mr. Wilcox One of the the issues Nigerians are having with the Chatham house interview was the fact that I see what you bother admit to Nubu himself when it got to very critical issues that he was asked Delegated these questions to his left hands as it were including the Kaduna state governor Nasser El Rufai and So many other people that were in his entourage. He Nigerians are not seeing it as a delegation of power or delegation of these questions to the people that he felt were Competent enough to say that Nigerians are seeing it as incompetence on his own part That he could not answer these questions himself. What's your response? Well, I will empathize with those Nigerians real form of empathy for those Nigerians that will be seriously make A political failure in terms of that is very important capital out of the brilliant performance of the APC president Kennedy's Bola metinubu Chatham house. Like I said, I would really empathize with them the fact remains that If anybody has known Bola metinubu right from Lagos as the governor of Lagos, he's a man that is that believes so much in team work I've not been close to him I've not met him one-on-one but from his antecedent in Lagos Is a man with team work? He believes so much in using men to achieve objective That is a clear indication of the man that called for privacy. Remember he's a he's a trade accountant He's a he was trained in some of the best institutions the Lord and go he served in movie, too He understands the elements of team work and Responsibility delegated responsibility now I Was not in the party that draw the APC manifesto, of course, it is not written by Bola metinubu alone That manifesto is a product of the brain of the think tank of Responsible and dedicated men and women that are his Trusted and well selected crafted out persons that he knew possess the capacity To draft a manifesto and to deliver on those on those promises so it is not a part of place to start exposing His personality in terms of delegation. No, nobody knows it all And there has never been a time where metinubu has never claimed to be a master of mood. Oh, no There's no reason what what what you always claim to be is to do it mentality He believes that the tax must be done so he must use me and the rightful of men to do that job So exposing those kind of attributes now is a better thing Look, that is why today you can look back and look at this man and women Well, actually who has built over the years If you say that he's putting everything in his own portfolio that stands only by himself Whatever the pilot in his armpit like so many scum on so many people do You Let me on mr. Wilcox mr. Wilcox just a moment Let me understand this before before there's a misunderstanding somewhere. Let me just understand the statement you made you say nobody Owns knowledge. Nobody has a monopoly of knowledge. He doesn't he has never said he knows everything Are you saying that delegating these things is because he didn't know them and then he But he had people in this entourage that knew these things that these questions these answers to the questions Of the manifesto and of course in the delivery of governors people will bring in their ideas He makes the final call as little as the governor he used every available Human resource that he could gather not just from legal state from every part of the country That's why he has commissioner from every other part of the country. He uses them but he makes a final call And that is where he goes is today He must get ideas even the most trusted president of America becoming as intelligent because he was he has men and we're here He must listen to them or give advices that was bringing the opinion that will look at his opinion and Recovery for him for for if it has been cleansing that he made the final call So exposing the a team that he was that he's likely to walk with at this point Remember this is not the first time he was exposing them. I mean even even if even at the conference in Lagos I mean, I mean when he had the press party in Lagos, he also exposed people some questions He would direct you to the vice president candidate. So we would say, okay He will not answer all this was your answer. He is a master strategist He knows these things but of course he has to also get input from people. I mean It's not shy to ask questions People that have worked with him closely and when at the point when the Emotion was talking about an encounter they had with the dela lucky and the kadosa or what in one I mean in one function He said they even argue with him in the decision that they wanted to make he allowed people He allowed and tap on the intelligence. So asking these people to answer those questions It's not out of place and remember it's one of the questions He will still you will see add to it after they have answered you will not add to that Not because it doesn't know but because he has to expose his team He has to expose that everybody within the team is capable of delivering on those promises. So it's for me It's a perfect strategy. He's not claiming to be a woman's shop shop that he knows everything No, but at the end of the day, the the the past remains that he will make the final call And that is what gives me advantage over other present candidates He will make the final call after taking decisions after taking the imputes from everybody He will see make this show and that's why it's nearly goes into today You think it's only him that built a girl's you think it's only him that staff on beginning No, he uses men and at the other day He makes the final call and that is why I see what Lagos is today. And so that is from Me that's for me is the best strategy anybody can do if being a rugan is not being shown I don't know even in those questions at the end of the some of the answer He still make an impute to add the one that they didn't say That is a man that has that know what he's doing as a president can lead it as a person I'm concerned I think I give him thumbs up in those in general strategies Okay, maybe maybe he's a trailblazer in a lot of things. Let me come to you, Mr. Katuba This is a man who is Who is going for an interview? That's the analogy everybody has been using you want a job and Yes, your CV has told us a lot of things about you, but we want to know how those things that are on your CV You you can put them to practice for instance in our CVs. We also was right ability to For teamwork you like to do to work with a team Ability to do these work under pressure and the rest of those and I've not seen maybe it has happened somewhere else But I've not seen where a president is trying to campaign to become or someone rather is trying to campaign To become a president and starts to delegate Questions that they are asked because no matter how good a document is the person who has to enforce that document is That person when he becomes the president so this need to have an understanding of this document So the manifesto was was put in place by a lot of people. Yes, like Mr. Wilcox has said But do you also? Think it was the the smartest move for Tinnable to let others answer the questions that were asked him directly I like to quickly draw a simple I was I was quite astonished At the beginning I didn't understand it, but then when the time flew down I now understood what it was demonstrated. It was not showing inability to answer The man was showcasing to Nigerians and the world He was showing it. He was not proving anything. I give you an example I was applying for a job of a general manager in Ghana across Adaptation then was toppled and the consultant asked me to bring a blueprint of what I want to achieve in a year and I remember That I drew my plans for the radio station and I realized that there are some things joking that I needed to showcase at the Internet and I also needed to showcase a Marketing plan, you know, I went to that presentation with these things when you go to that I asked them to speak to it and I got that job and became general manager of software And I I just did not realize until he started doing it the the fact that Anyone could suggest that he doesn't know what you want to do is It's laughable, but it's part of the political game. We are all playing now. You can either play it off or you play it low Let me say another thing Anyone interrogating Bola met you now or questioning about what you want to do should remember that you are interrogating the manifesto And that manifesto is a product of teamwork. He knows what it is in it But he will choose man in the group that can mock That can speak to it in a way that I might not be able to do currently But I will be able to tell you where the direction The United States of America the president we say we are going to the moon They have no idea how to start but they do go to the moon. That's why the man is telling you I am a doer. I'm a thinker. I'm a visionary Understand the campaign you are butting in not a man who knows it all for the man who has the vision of where we are going Anyone who want to define leadership if you look at three candidates that have come to an interview and anyone says I know it all Anytime a good thing is done. I'm the only one who does it put everyone else bad I want to give that person a job apart from the fact that you won't really Create a good leader a good leader is not only who knows it But who knows the politics of leading men and women after those in management at the second level It's not about knowledge anymore. It's about ability to money because we want a president that we hit the ground running We said boy, I spent six months and we're not happy but this money's telling you how big cabinet in place We are ready to run from day one. I think Don't want to make political choices should begin to think deeply instead of being shallow. That's my opinion Okay, let me remember to miss a cat sugar if I go back to mr. Wilcox It's it's like it's like someone who has gone to school He wants to become a doctor He may not know everything but before an exam There's the syllabus that comes out and you're asked to study that syllabus You may not know everything because you didn't write the chemistry textbooks You didn't write the physics textbook, but you are given a syllabus that syllabus. Let's say that is the thing We are calling a manifesto now then you're given an exam It is expected that as much as possible you understand the provisions inside that syllabus to write that exam when you finish You can now become that doctor if you like you choose your own nurses you choose your own Lab scientists you choose wherever you are going to choose but this person has not written that exam The exams is already delegating and you're calling that a good show of a leader This is not an exam the Nigerian people who he wants to lead are asking questions even though he went to Chatham house He was talking to Nigerians In members Does it does it show that he understands what is being asked of him? To the shadow minded it will be shadow minded and uneducated But the educated one will be that you call it will know the quality of Of course before him Shalom, you know in terms of human resource and then Capacities where the right people And great leaders so for the Nigerian population Them are followers of opinion Those who know the opinion who believe they are well schooled In a in a wrong way in order to gain sincere you really want that's not developed In national development is a team work the man who they showcase it not that he's Incapable of answering it after all he has different He's been doing the talking in Nigeria For people to know to begin to use to make up for the note If it does something that they are very shocked and give us a bit especially the political opponent Level of a shiwaj is too high in this campaign for all of them. They are speaking and repeating Impotability talent saying to the to the goal ability of the low-minded Nigeria Telling them of Tells you how low they are. They are very disrespected for the people They don't want the Nigerian to be able to afford rise of 15,000 They wanted to leave his life and be looking for 7,500 right that is not available any I'm first candlelight on a shame to have quality of men like that. It's it for people Wicked people want to tell you that you should buy the product at a cheaper rate so that you don't fire to prove Yourself you will not The same rate is a charge for your food Around the town at the level of criticism they have and the criticism is so lame and you look at them They are full I will repeat the work worry at the right time when you have them They don't even talk about simmers deal They don't talk about the Michael also electricity They don't talk about the nutrient revolution Let me go to mr. Wilcox now mr. Katuga, please. Let me go to mr. Wilcox Mr. Wilcox, are you there? Okay, I like the way you gentlemen are talking globally glowingly about them what happened at Chatham house But let me let me just ask As a person Would you rate the the level of security or insecurity in Kaduna state? So high that Nasir El Rufai for instance will will be the one to showcase to the world as a person who knows Anything that has to do with security because he was the one delegated to answer the question on security Well, let me say this. Let me tell you that for It's a comment and I think if I have time to do that we have also expand on that Well, let me say this I think you see if you look at the person's blood maintainable chooses to answer those people You will discover that this appeal I have hands-on hands-on experience on those areas You just talk about Nasir El Rufai Nasir El Rufai has to be dead over one of the over one of the most terrible Domestically influence terrorist activity or insecurity in In apart from I mean apart from Bronu state Apart from Brownian you'll be that book around what Nasir El Rufai to contend with was basically in both internal tribalistic religious and all facet all facet of fair of fair or gamut and facet of fair pit and pit of Architecture here and there that culminate up to into the secret in Cardinal state Because if you go to certain cardinal this insecurity architecture is different Most of them have to do with tribalistic tendencies so as to do with ethnic so as to do with religious and so he has been able to to within the within the conference of his Office powers been able to to still keep Cardinal state going So he is equipped In another in another in another in another a response he asked what they do to respond What they do is his sound economics and I was was have one time as commission of finance under him a sound economics So he asked him to respond. So already let's just summarize this Let's summarize this if for instance, you know who becomes the president and Everybody who answered whatever question is made the minister of that thing. He answered Would you be comfortable with a Nasir El Rufai being the minister for? defense maybe Or internal affairs, whatever is going to be the portfolio that is going to bring peace to Nigeria Knowing what has happened in in Kaduna because experience is not enough If you are a gate man in a university doesn't mean that you're going to have a PhD because you are in there Academic environment. So he has the experience But has he been able has he been able to to use that experience and do the right thing that you are comfortable with that if he Becomes someone that the security architecture is handed over to in 2023 as minister. He can perform Let me say this that we do respect some of your analogies Not totally in tandem with what we're discussing like when you said Nasir El Rufai has had to contend with a lot of things How has he used this this experience that he has had with insurgency and kidnapping and all the other things How has he made it made Kaduna safer because experience is not enough So he has seen these things has he been able to As a matter of fact, let's say this because time is tied. Let me say this I think I will give topsof to the Nasir El Rufai because the gang up against Nasir El Rufai in Kaduna has been terrible Both from religious angle Ethnic angle remember he has to contend with with Zazaki and his and his group He has to contend with what's happening in southern Kaduna and this man is this standard and Kaduna is still is still there Kaduna security has improved to the point that people are still trooping to Kaduna. I just went to Kaduna recently He doesn't have the total the total powers because I mean security for both within the state and the federal Of the federal but within what he had I think I'll give topsof to a man like El Rufai If if the if the incoming president Okay So I don't be interior minister Minister or Minister of Defense, I think I will leave that choice to Balameh if it's so choose But if I as a less as from an outside perspective and I see what Nasir El Rufai has contended with Since becoming governor the gang up either both from religious perspective both from the Ethnic perspective and other perspective. I'm not a fan of El Rufai before now, but I'm speaking from my heart I will give this man a thumbs up because for the way he has been able to manage that diversity Those complexities and Kaduna is still going on today. Okay. I should give him a thumbs up So all right experience. He has killed Okay, thank you 100% If we have government Kaduna for eight years If we have time if we have time we might have to revisit what we are saying now But we have a little guy a judge standing by also to join us on the show. Mr. Judge Welcome to the run-up Good morning. Thank you for having me. Yes. Okay. We're talking about the Chatham house the APC presidential candidate went to Chatham house in the UK and did what he did he was interviewed and He delegated some questions to some of the people that came with him to answer so we're trying to explain what happened there why he had to go to Chatham house and The the action that he took in answering the questions that he answers his general performance there at that Interview so what is your take about the entire Chatham house? event All right. Thank you so much once again and for the opportunity You know, it's quite interesting to have a masterful of metinubu, you know address the world address Nigeria You know from an extension from outside the country Especially because they have been demands, you know For ashua to talk to Nigerians by other Recognized and it's published media houses in the country But up until now he has chosen not to do so and I think that's where I'd like to pick the conversation from Nigeria is our country and I'm sure it is going to win presidency in 2023 It's going to be the president of Nigeria one of the major challenges that people talk about Where the Buhari administration is concerned right now is that he's more Is more used to I mean going out there. He likes showing off outside the country. He likes, you know Making positions normal. I mean it's always getting out to either for medical tourism or one tourism or the other In the name of of official duty. So We are looking forward to a Nigerian president that will be 100 percent Nigerian that will stay back home Look at our issues and address those issues as they emerge per time So I think for me first of all, it is Not acceptable that somebody who is going to be a president Who wants to be a president so to speak Cannot still within the shores of Nigeria and speak to Nigeria Speak to the Nigerian press and speak to the Nigerian people And you know, have them did random access allow them to quiz him over his Ability to provide the kind of governance that is required, especially at this sensitive time in the country That's on the one hand that when we now speak about the issues of the quality of You know, what was said and how the entire interview went I will be very sincere to tell you that It was a brilliant showing there even though it was nasty have to talk about the delegation Listen to the other guest speak earlier about you, you know Asking some of his cabinet members so to speak Prospective cabinet members, you know to also show they are 40 I think there's an opportunity about that again would have been better or at home But have it it's already done. So there is nothing we can do about that, but um We are beginning to look at All of the things that these people say interesting. I mean there is a head point very sometimes you would want to say very very interesting But the question is when we place this brilliant ideas that these guys have When we place it with what is obtainable in Nigeria at the moment Then you find out that there are two words apart So the question is and the interesting thing is that most of them, you know In one way or the other Acquist to the current administration of president Muhammad I want to believe that some of them Members of the party and she was well, I meant in who was the national leader of the party for several years He asked the respect I mean he was there he did the magic in 2015 and in 2019 again, they needed his magic wand, you know to have president buhari Secure a second time in office. So if we look at that he has strong influence Yes, because I know that the next excuse would be that after all he's not in power He's not in office. So he cannot make contributions But I totally disagree with that because if you have brilliant ideas and you know that you always the you always have the president Ayers Why have you not suggested some of these tactics that you intend to run Nigeria with What we don't suggest that to the president, you know, why are you not you have control even over some members of this Of the national assembly that I mean even within the cabinet within the president's cabinet talking about the ministers There are certain ministers that he can with a call he can impress Upon and then say we need to ensure that this and this is done And then you take it to mr. President But where we are right now none of that is done and then new promises are given And then we explain Actually accept them. I think that's you know, uh, it is not mine to decide this for Nigerians But then again, uh, you want to ask Interesting ideas brilliant ideas, but how practicable is it? Why have you not contributed? This why have you not contributed this to uh, uh, the current administration to ensure that things get better at least If they are done that, okay, but you pick up from a very strong point now, you know Manga just just a moment You you have already made that point it should have Uh, you people are wondering you are wondering Why these people who are part of this government will know all these and the things that are happening in Nigeria are still happening Which means, you know, there's a lot of uh questions to be asked there But in fairness to uh, the presidential candidate of the apc He said that the people who organized the debates back home. He is not comfortable with them And uh, a lot of people also have come out to say that if it were a very neutral or National body recognized that does debates, it would have been a different case But this one is a media house that he doesn't trust even in America We have various media houses that have biases for for some parties of some individuals. So, uh, His excuse for you. Is it good enough or not good enough? It is absolutely not good enough. Um, because uh in Nigeria, we have several media houses And I want to believe that not all of them will be against Ashwajibola Metsinubu. Not all of them Will not, I mean the media as far as I know, uh, because I'm fractional. It's fair enough in Nigeria. Yes, uh, We can agree that some have Certain sentiments towards certain people or certain parties and all of that. But on a general ground I mean, we have a more uh, liberal media in Nigeria And then he could have taken advantage of them. Okay, let's even say that Many of them, you know, are not favorable to him There is one that we know he has control over and that would be the television continental tvc Why not, um, you know, organize, um, a debate? Why why I'm, you know, impressed upon the television continental, you know, to organize a debate that will be controlled, you know, they invite the people they want And then they have a debate. I mean That's an excuse, you know, and that's an easy way of saying it is because we don't trust But right now we have not had any Um, they have designed their strategies and their strategies is to use town hall meetings to talk to Nigerians But how many how many Nigerians? I mean the message goes Faster it goes run and it shows that it ensures that you are certain. For example, I'll draw a very quick example When the candidate of the pdp talking about a large article back, I was in Kaduna and he was talking, you know To the Nigerian people and he made a certain point. I'm sure you remember now about why They need to vote for him and all that because He said that but because the media was present They were able to capture it. They were able to report it in the way and of course the banters and the That came after All right, so basically what I'm saying is it is not an acceptable excuse. Um There is nothing that stops a Nigerian A prospective Nigerian president from talking to the Nigerian people in the media that they do organize and understand And then do recovery. All right. Okay. Thank you very much. Um, we've run out of time. Mr. Akatu. We are very very quickly now If you're still there, um, what would you suggest for the future because yes, no matter how we see it It it could also Be a little bit valid that uh media houses could be biased and there should be a neutral ground Uh, so if you're suggesting bodies that should organize, uh, presidential debates Governorship debates and all that in the future. What would it be? Just very briefly please I'm highly disappointed at the Nigerian media And I I feel very sorry for the audacity to say that each of the media houses will be organizing just now And that shows that we really have a big problem in the country If the media the 40th Of frame of this Can not do themselves to get under broadcasting organization Okay, they cannot put themselves to get under broadcasting organization And come with the Institute of international activities and democratic institutes and put the national debate The people that will do the questioning and selected carefully to represent the broad spectrum Of of of of of different and very few people have a choice even 100 days Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Mr. Katuga. Mr. Katuga. Sorry. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. You have made the point. I I really asked. Um if media houses come together under the broadcasting organization of Nigeria and organize debates it will be more neutral because from every media house possibly there will be people who will contribute and that is a suggestion I really needed to hear. So, going forward, Nigeria should look for an alternative, not every media house organizing. Well, it's a good point and we hope that those who are concerned should look into it. I'd like to thank you, gentlemen, for coming on the program. Thank you so much for coming on the program today. Mr. Alexa. I didn't have my own last word. We don't have time. I do hope that we'll have another time with you. We don't have time. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. And people keep looking at it and understanding it. We'll call you again. We'll call you again another time. Thank you so much. We'll take a break now and take the news and the run-up continues in a moment. Stay with us.