 The only other guy that I heard of that put that kind of fear most recently was Ron Artes. I heard stories that folks would run, you know, when they were getting ready to face them and go, oh, you know what, I'll think I'm going to sit this one out or whatever. I never heard that. I know back in the day, we got a lead. They used to always say, we're going to send a limbo to pick you up. So when they used to say, we're going to send a limbo to pick you up, that mean, that guy trying to get 40 points, he try to make sure you come to the game. Mentioning the great things that you're doing in the community. Tell me about the Charles Oakley Foundation. Yes, the foundation is something that I really got involved with. I've been doing stuff about this side like a year ago to get involved in the foundation. So I'll start weekend with my first event for the Oakley Foundation and we was trying to go like that, get out in the community, go back, do stuff with kids, show people that, you know, what the foundation is about. It's a lot of love. You know, trying to, like I said, we're trying to get them something to have hopes about, like, never forget this all-star weekend in Cleveland. Like I said, a t-shirt in a bag, key chains, some stuff that they can take home and pull on the wall and look at it as a motivation. But we, you know, try to go around a couple centers and serve great meals, hot meals and go to, I went to a high school game and just walk in. Now we're 20, 30 people walking in by myself, sit there and watch the game, the pet rally. It was a great weekend. I think we got some really good, a lot of good contents out of this going forward. And then we work on our scholarship program, then we work on other programs that, you know, after school with kids. How did the idea come about put together your book, The Last Enforcer? Okay. The Last Enforcer. It's just a book that I've been working on for a while and I was, I'm trying to get the deal, like, 10 years ago. It didn't go through. So two years ago, me and Frank talked, I said, we've got to get this book. So we got the deal. The book is just a book just like my grandfather growing up in Cleveland and going to live with my grandfather, my grandmother and my aunts and uncles in Alabama for a while, coming back to Cleveland with mom. Mom had, you know, worked two jobs. One job, she had to catch two buses every day for so many years, but she got it done raising six kids. But the book is just a lot about the family, MBA, stories and just my growth as, you know, as the book goes stronger again, you know, sort of my grandfather and all my strength come from this book and show you my toughness from just growing up. You had to be tough, mentally tough in Cleveland growing up because a lot of things was going on. But it's just like doing podcasts a year on the back page of the post or whatever. So everybody can see like the inside of me. They might see my face, but don't know what's inside of me. Now they can get the whole thing out of this book. What was it like working with our guy on this network? Frank got stolen for this book. So Frank, the great guy, Frank was working with the beat for the data's news. So last two years in New York, but I got to know Frank. But I think that when you were beat writer, you come into interview guys, you need some kind of spark in the story. So he knew he could always come to me, all the writers, I was good with the writers all around, not just New York, because I think they have a job to do. I have a job to do something. Even though we didn't lose a draw, you still have to talk to him. And that's how I go. And these guys, like now, I see a lot of writers and stuff. Now I got a book come out. I'll be going to write some about it because you got to be real with people, you know, we all down sometimes when we lose, but they have a job to do. The job they owe until you leave the arena. So you have to give me a time, 10, 15 minutes. And I was good. I was good at that. I didn't, I didn't blame the writers. I blame within the team we lost. Real quick, just for young reporters out there, a lot of players don't like reporters. What did you like about Frank Isola? What would you tell young reporters who are interviewing players because there's not a lot of great relationships out there between athletes? It's a lot of bad. It's about a lot of bad. I mean, with reporters and players now, I see, I see a lot of players are not doing reporters out there. I blame management because they shouldn't contract. So I finally got 10,000, 200, 300,000. They shouldn't even come to that. But now writers, they have a job to do. I mean, they go too overboard. You have the playoff. You have a right to say something, but most players are going to try to, most writers are going to try to work their way in. They'd be good because they know that they got to be with you for 82 games and close the playoff or preseason. So some, some every night they go out their way and try to slide something in the story. And then you read the story that I didn't say that. And that's the issue. But I give 90% of the good guys. It's always going to be a bad apple in the bunch. So that's life. I loved, I finished the book. It was terrific. Again, I'm very nostalgic of that time in the 90s and the physical play and, you know, I mean, you have to be mentally tough today, but, you know, different type of mental tunnel is talking about that time and the battles that you had on the court with Pistons teams, the book and real quick out the Pistons. I think it's bad. I had, I was doing some work in the WNB, now I'm going Bill M. Bear when he was coaching. He was still taking shots of Larry Bird. I don't know if it's like that blood, bad blood with the Pistons, whether it's from Larry's side, the Bulls side, the Mcside, it's still there about those Detroit guys. Yes. In this book, we talked about all of the 80s and 90s, all the matches with the, you know, with the Bulls, Boston, Indiana and the Knicks. But I mean, yeah, Detroit was there, but I think Detroit went over there a lot. They played, you know, a little, you know, like they did stuff on, you know, they try to do stuff. You can be big bag and tough, but I never tried to hurt another player. A certain way you can see things happen to court that they try to hurt guys. But I mean, you know, it was physical back then, but a lot of them guys weren't really physical. It was just part of the game. You know, so you catch one of them guys outside there, a different type of guy, you know, they don't want no problems. So I was like acting. What were some of your favorite rivalries during your 18 and a half, 18 and a half year playing career? I look at it totally different. I look at it as a desert game. I know a lot of people say, oh, the Knicks and the Bulls, the Knicks and Indiana. I mean, yeah, we all went down to a wild tough game. We played physical. I just liked the challenge. I think everybody was tough every given night to me because I had to do all the dirty work and I, you know, I didn't get to do the pretty thing. Go office, take a lot of shots. So I didn't play defense, rebound, take the charges. So I didn't look at it as one special team, but I looked at everybody I had to play hard and tough against. So you go out against the weaker teams that this is not at all. And then you lose and you be upset at yourself. So I looked at it, I took the same approach for every game. You in the book, you know, you talked about challenge and a lot of guys, you know, across the line with you on the court, you set them straight real quick and then that was that. It was over. Who are some guys that earned your respect for their toughness? I didn't look at them like that. They earned it. It ain't a dollar sale with me. Just saying, just come and play because I'm coming to play. I'm coming to play hard every night. So what happened happened? What was your favorite game? Do you have a favorite game from your playing career? Either a great win or a performance that you had? What's one that you reflect on that's your favorite? Well, it's got to be in the paces and 93 out of four going to the finals, you know, the win that game, get to the finals. I mean, that's when it comes first, where we, you know, advance a chance to win. I don't look into career stats. I could have had 30, 30 or 35. That don't mean nothing. I looked into the game and got us to the finals. And that's the most important game because we would never won that game. We never made it to the finals. So we, we had a chance to win a championship. That's the most important thing. On the flip side, what's the toughest loss of your career? The toughest loss, probably, in the, in the, well, the toughest loss, probably game seven. I mean, it's still, you know, I'm trying to win. So that game stop was from winning. Anything had, my life, my story was about a point in life that you get a chance to win a championship. And that, in that game against Houston and game seven, and then the game in Indiana to get the violence. So there was two important games. And I think that by the fact, I was talking to boomer yesterday about the Cincinnati bingo. And I went back in time with him. I guess a lot of people, he probably never knew, I knew this, the drive that the Rams had on Cincinnati was the same drive that the 49ers had on Cincinnati back in eight, I think eighties, last 97, last time he went. Eighties, seven, 97, I don't know which one. Whenever it was, it was two times since that loss, the two Super Bowl, both of them was on the last drive. Wow. Wow. What is the, fans are a part of this too, when you're out in a, give me a game that fans remind you of the most. Is there one that fans remind you of the most? Not really. The fans, I mean, I talked to a lot of fans. They come with me. We love how you play. We like how you play. We just like it because your mindset and, you know, they really don't, you know, they just come with me there. They just be real with me and just, you know, they'll get to the numbers and just send, and they like, hey, you showed up every night and you put it on the line. So I respect them always for knowledge, me, but I respect them, but just don't understand the basketball. He bought the guy who scored 20 points, 25 points every night. You come from an HBCU, very proud in that respect and drafted and then traded to Chicago. When did you, what was the first moment you realized that you really clicked with Michael Jordan? So in his book, you know, you know, Michael Jordan did it forward. So it could have been that time we was in Seattle and we, we was in Seattle, we had dinner and something happened, you know, he had made the All-Star team. So this is the second year of my first year and something happened at the table that everybody ordered food at the end, the check came, right? And the guys were telling, you know, everybody was like, okay, this is my mic. So the guy was like, why are we trying to put this build together? Let's make Michael pay because he was, he was an All-Star last year and he is, and he just went over like, y'all get paid the same way I get paid, good, you know? So one thing led to another. So they almost got into a fight and I broke the fight up and it just seemed like we clicked. Like, I'm like, no, it's okay, you know, we go, oh man, let's take care of our own bed. But that, and maybe take me to the rookie All-Star team. We just, we just clicked it for some reason, you know, I guess my work habit and I didn't take no mess. I always, personally, I always think it's amazing when two people stayed for who want blood, you know, stay close and remain friends over a period of time. You know, there's so many things in life that you can have it falling out. You never talk again, whatever it may be. How special is it to you that you have friendships like the one with Jordan where you guys remain close? I mean, it's great because I think we all get old. Our life changed in his book. You know, he got married. I got married and I think that he had a relationship with my family. But the most one we still, he still asked him a call. Like, I know he's coming to Cleveland Sunday and I was talking to him and he was, you know, he left Daytona for the race and flying to Cleveland. When he got to Cleveland, I talked to him about that. But you know, communication is there. I mean, we don't go, if they call me, I call him and then he'll call me back in the day, not the same day, the next day and what's going on this and that. So I'm still on speed dial. He on my speed dial and you know, so it's still love there. Always going to be love there. I'm going to ask about a couple of guys in the book come up a bit. First, you know, you were traded from Chicago to New York. What was it? What was your issue over your time with Patrick Ewing as a as a as a as a player performer and leading in this? So in the book, I talk about Patrick, right? My thing, when I got traded in New York, I talked about it. I don't think I'm going to New York play a passenger. I mean, you know, we came out the same year. He was number one pick. I was the name picking the draft, but I just found out he was a different guy. He wanted, you know, I'm leaving Chicago. I know what Mike is. You know, I didn't really know Patrick like that. I know I've been around his name and seen him play on TV, but he wasn't what I thought he was. And that's just like, okay, let me, you know, continue with doing what I'm doing and try to make this train, you know, make sure it's smooth ride all the way through with, you know, playing with him. So I got to deal with it. But it just, it was just a hard, it was a hard task because it was like, you know, leaving the White House going to the next house. And, you know, he was a different guy. You know, he wasn't like a Mike, but, you know, I guess, you know, you got to adjust to whoever you're around. But I think adjusting to who you're around. But the player, if it would be your marquee player, gotta make sure everybody okay. That wasn't the case. So it was a lot of learning point with Patrick. It was less learning with Mike. The Mike had it. Patrick was trying to get, Mike had the impact, but Patrick didn't. So that's the big difference in basketball because Mike and Patrick couldn't care. The altercation with Dolan folks know about it. What's your relationship with the Knicks right now? My relationship with the fans is great. My relationship with MSGs is still the same. We're still in court. We got some things come up in the next two months. I mean, it's just bad what's going on because someone created us something and don't want to count it before. Whatever happened that night, he was the reason behind it because he don't like me. But he don't like me. He could have started a ride or anything in the garden because of one person. He didn't care about whoever's there. That's the disrespect this guy. He shouldn't even have an NBA team. He's not fit for a team because all the time you hear about him when he's doing something wrong, you hear about the team. The team has struggled for 20 years and they said all start up at the top and he run the show. Look what's going on this year. God don't like ugly. You're starting the book. You mentioned the four word by Michael Jordan, but the start and mentioning Charles Barkley and setting the record straight is one of the more hilarious intros I've read in a while. Do you and Charles get along now? Not really. He said he don't know why I talk about him. I think he's full of s. He talked a lot down. Didn't talk a lot when he played. I guess working with TNT, you got to be an actor. Got to be a clown and a commentator. All three of them is him. I don't know, but I think if you want to be a commentator about basketball, you've got to talk about basketball, not about doing flicks and skits and stuff. I mean, I just never, I never seen a talk show like that before, but they win an award. So I guess acting is part of the job these days. Does anybody in today's game remind you of yourself? It's a completely different game than the one that we saw, but do you see anyone that has similarities that you appreciate? I get a lot of dreamers. Dreamers is a good guy. He plays hard. He do a lot undersized. He can play three or four positions. It's hard. It doesn't matter as long as my team wins, and he don't try to come out and get 20 points. He give a lot of effort. He's the leader of the team. I'm a good dreamer. I like dreamers because he's a fighter on the court and off the court. He don't let people talk about how he play all this and that, but he get the job done and he got a championship. So it's great to be compared to Dreymont. And I'm just bigger. And Dreymont will be playing out early. It might have been different, but right now what I see, he get the job done. Charles Oakley, Ben, I really appreciate your time. Really, really quick on you mentioned LeBron and Stephan, both these young guys in today's game were still doing it. You know LeBron for a long time with that Cleveland-Ohio connection. Steph, you mentioned watching him as a little kid in Toronto. How amazing has it been watching those guys not only live up to expectations, but exceed expectations? Well, I think LeBron came out with it. Steph had to earn it. It's a big difference, but Steph had the dad to teach him how to shoot. One of his dad, Dale, was one of the best shooters in the game, but Steph worked on his craft. Even though he was young, playing one-on-one events in Toronto, but you can see he's seen like he's working more every year because his game is all about feeling, moving, and you know, LeBron is 18 years strong and still doing that thing. So you got to take the head off the one, both of them guys, because like I said, both of them on the West Coast now, Steph and all star games, still going on the shot, he had 50 points, 16 out of some 16 threes, I don't know how many he took, but he made 16. But on the flip side of that, that can be bad having for the younger kids. So they want to shoot threes, but they can't make a jump shot layup. You know, so it's good for television, good for advertising, but it ain't good for the young generation. Work on your craft. You got to work on your craft to get what Steph had. So you work on your craft, you can be Steph. When you start shooting threes first, you can't be Steph. So what was it? What was it like with Sean Markson? And you told you his vet, what did you see as your role as a vet with young players like Sean? No, just, you know, making sure they're okay at all time. And you know, as a young guy, they tend to pick on you more of the coach, this and that. And you got to stay at the practice and work with the other guys. Sometimes the veterans always practice. But no, Sean was smart, understand, knew his craft. And I think that's the harder part. A lot of guys come in and they don't know the craft of how they can fit in. He was a runner. He can jump. He was a great athlete. And he really was a good athlete. He was just smart. He understood the game. So most of you and Pam, they have the smarts. So they pick up quick. Sean, pick up quick. I didn't have to say too much to him. Let's go to lunch. Let's go to dinner sometime. The last enforcer, Charles Oakley. I got to get a signed copy. Charles, are you going to have a signing anywhere soon? I'm going to start by late March in New York. I'm at four or five signings a day. So I'm going to be in the city for like every other week in March. I love it. I love it. Folks, look forward to that. And please check out the book. Charles, thank you so much for your time. Greatly appreciate you, brother. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.