 Welcome again to A World on the Move, the podcast where we speak to the real issues affecting refugees and migrants around the world. We're live here from the United Nations in their extraordinary studio. It's a real pleasure to be here and it's more than a pleasure to have Stephen O'Brien, the Undersecretary General for Humanitarian Affairs and the Emergency Relief Coordinator all wrapped into one. Well thank you very much indeed and it's a very great pleasure for me to be with you today. My job as the United Nations Humanitarian Chief, it has much longer with titles you've just heard, is very much to try and bring the world of determined and principled humanitarian action to relieve the suffering of all the millions who through no fault of their own find themselves caught up in crisis. We know that there are about 60, 65 million people on the move of whom about 41 million are internally displaced and 20, 24 million also are refugees and migrants and so it's absolutely clear that within our humanitarian response we have to take a real care and pay lots of attention to those who suddenly through no fault of their own find themselves having to flee and that I think is going to be the centre of our discussion today. Thank you so much Stephen. So with that let's turn it over to some of our guests because we have on the show tonight some really interesting people who have themselves walked the walk, have been refugees, have fled war, have fled conflict. So let's start talking to James who's from Sudan, Southern Sudan and who fled that conflict some time ago. James over to you. So to speak on the issue of internally displaced people in South Sudan as well as South Sudanese refugees at the moment as I'm here I'm a student at the University of Toronto studying but alongside that because I cannot sleep physically without thinking so much about what is going on back home I'm working on a project to help those communities fight malnutrition as well as hunger that is very prevalent at the moment. Empowering the local people to be to be independent and take control of some of these issues that are actually facing them. Well first of all I really admire and salute to you James for your continuing care of the people whilst you have been able to flee and to establish yourself in a different country and to make your studies but to have always in your mind the people who you left behind. It's the people themselves who are always going to be the main agents in their own lives and we should always want to make sure that is the case. Let's move the conversation if we can to Helena who's from neighbouring Ethiopia originally and living in living in Belgium. Not somebody who fled war but somebody from a country that's always kind of seems to be on the on the brink of some tremendous success or indeed something something more dark. Tell us tell us your story please. I personally don't have any forced migration stories but my family has experienced them in the past. Ethiopia and Eritrea have always had conflict with one another and in the late 90s a lot of families that were living in either country had to flee if you're of Eritrean origin living in Ethiopia or vice versa and that's what happened with my dad. He left to the US when I was around eight years old and it was a new normal. It was difficult for our family but we are definitely more fortunate than most like you mentioned earlier Mr. O'Brien most people got to flee but a lot were left behind unable to find safe haven elsewhere. So I think that that's what is extremely that's why it is extremely important for humanitarian assistance to reach those unable to support themselves. It's these voices that need to be heard the voices that couldn't get out so that more action can be taken to protect them and the refugees worldwide. Although in Ethiopia there's no current declared conflict of course there are tensions which we have to make sure that we understand and that's what our job is about. So it needs advocacy without advocacy we won't raise the resources without the resources converting from pledges to cash we can't make the programs happen which directly leads to the saving of lives. So again thank you for your advocacy. Let me turn at this point to PJ. Perhaps you tell us a little bit about that conflict and what you remember of it and your journey since then. Thank you Leonard and thank you Mr. O'Brien. I think my my experience of war and conflict is quite historical because it's to do with the wars in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea because I experienced my first escape was when I was age four running away from Liberia to come into Sierra Leone where my father is from and where we were eventually going to be to be settled. So I think as people try to try to escape forced migration it's it's something that we need to look at securing safe passage. We see wars all around the world people moving from country to country escaping for their lives. I think one of the things that we need to always remember is to try to encourage host nations and people to get involved in taking in refugees and in being compassionate. My experience is that additionally my father and mother rescued about 800 child soldiers from the conflict that were living with us that we trained and and equipped and educated and today 10 years 10 15 years down the line. These guys are working with me and we're running four schools. We're working with farmers equipping them to be able to to to increase the quality quantity of their yields. We're tackling the unemployment in Sierra Leone by training people in vocational training and I split my time between UK and Sierra Leone but I think that investment through local people that have a long-term vested interest I think in the solution and actually rebuilding the country I think is also quite key. You are an example of the dominance of the human spirit if you've been through that level of challenge and for you still to be able to talk to us with such a sense of positive hope both for yourself and indeed on behalf of others I think this is a reason why we should all feel inspired and motivated by people who tell the stories as you do. That was something which really came out in this World Humanitarian Summit we had in May where we need to look very carefully at how do we graduate how do we move along that line from immediate and emergency relief the humanitarian relief of life-saving supporting and protection to the development. I do think that there's a real need to recognize as the summit did say to try and get at least 20% of all that is spent into local hands and safe passage which was another point you mentioned is crucial because if you don't have safe passage whether it's within or indeed across a border of countries then what you have is just people on the run and so I'm very I'm very heartened by your putting your finger on what really matters is to establish safe passage is what we are currently as we speak now trying to do in northern Syria in getting to Aleppo but so long as people who wish to move have safe passage to be able to go to where they choose to go to then that is part of what we must as a responsibility seek to achieve. We'll speak to Afsun so it's another framing of the debate of the discussion we're having. Afsun like many of these fled as a very young child was bundled over the border from Iran she'll tell us a little bit about that but she's now working in the migration as a migration lawyer in Canada so the resettlement of refugees is very important although it's always only going to be a small portion of it but I suppose it gives hope. Perhaps Afsun you'll have a give us a few words of your of your own personal story. I don't lament the hardship that I face that my family face that so many of us face and the adversity that we overcame on the other hand I'm proud of it because it built my character and it instilled in me an understanding at a very young age that equality and justice are not just abstract and lofty goals they're practical imperatives that I want to help keep secure for others and that's why I decided to go to law school and that's why I work in immigration and refugee law now and and so and also an understanding that it is that nothing can come between the fact that we are all human at the end of the day that the circumstances that we find ourselves in the tint of our skin color the you know who we worship all of these differences at the end of the day cannot detract from what we have in common. I want to thank you all very much once again and thank you Stephen for spending so much time with us and we'd be delighted to to get you back on at an appropriate time if that's possible. I'd be delighted and I'm extremely grateful to the courage and the stories that we've heard today from all those who participated. So thanks to all from a world on the move and we'll be back with you shortly with another program.