 If you feel uncomfortable, it's a good sign that you might be up to something really big and true and authentic. So Ives, thanks for joining us today. So you've been at Colgate-Palmore live for the last 20 years? Yes, I know. So obviously in that time, you've seen the company change. I'm just kind of like how you think it's changed and how it's heading. It's historically, no, 24 years. When I joined Colgate 24 years ago, I thought I would spend a few years there and then go back to the industry I love, which is cosmetics. But it's a company that I fell in love with because of a lot of ethics. So it's been there forever. But what I see now that it's becoming more and more important. So it's something, the purpose, the need to take care of diversity, inclusion, the need to move marketing towards a place where we really make a difference in the life of people is a massive change. Of course, you have all the technology as well that has transformed the business over time. But I want to focus on the other one because I truly believe that's where we need to go. So I've heard your CEO say that culture starts at the top with regard to DEI. So I'd love to kind of understand a little bit about what that actually means. It means that we are all models. If you ask me what I think about the week, there is still a lack of diversity. I was looking around myself in the room and still lots of white male people. So it's great to talk about diversity. It's great to make people aware of the need to be more inclusive, but now we need to do it. And the only way we can do it is through the top of the house. We need to show that, yeah, we talk about it, but we believe in it, we act, we're courageous, and we do it. And then it will trickle down in the organization. So that's the only way. The organization has to push, but we have to show that we believe in it authentically, that we're courageous, that we take action. I'm going to jump a little bit. But it's connected in some ways and I think we'll come back to it. But I'm interested about data and as Marked here, kind of, because I feel like over the years, you've seen the conversational data kind of increase. But is there such a thing as us relying a little too heavily on data? It's not relying too heavily on data. It's thinking that two things that data will predict what the future will be about. Why data usually will tell you what will happen in the future if nothing changes. So that's something you need to be aware of. You should disrupt data. Data will not be able to cope with that and predict what's going to happen, number one. And number two, somebody said this week I heard on stage, we should not be scared that machines will become human. We should be scared that humans will become machines. And that's what happens with data. You look at data, they're dry, and you think you know everything. Data will never replace authentic contact with people. On my way to the interview, I was reading an email I got from our Martin director in India. He's just spent some time with people in the village. And he wrote something quite moving to me. He said I'm with a family. The eldest, three kids, the eldest has a hole in the heart. The second one has a mental sickness. And the third one just burned her hands due to an hatred shock. Data will never replace that. So you need to stay in contact with people because if not, you lose, you're going to lose the empathy. And empathy is everything. So love data, but human touch is critical. Empathy, 100% agree in terms of the importance of us to kind of not just know consumers but like actually feel what they feel. But how do you go about creating a more empathetic marketing organization? It's back to diversity. Again, if you have a room full of white male people, usually from good background, you get white male people advertising. If you really want to have empathy for people, you need to make sure that you have a very social, cultural, diverse team, number one. And number two, that you push them to get out there. This is, again, the danger of data, spending your entire day in front of your screen, trying to predict the future. Get out there. Don't forget that most of us we're making quite good money. That's not the rule. So get to places where usually you don't go to really make sure that you talk to people that makes you uncomfortable because they are not the one that you're talking to usually. And they don't have some empathy. Ask questions. Don't prompt for answers. Really try to understand the pain points in the life of people. Truly understand. Don't stare at the surface. When you do that, you start to get to insights that are richer and drive for kind of better work. Absolutely. But I guess you're obviously work across a region that as you move across it, kind of cultures are very different. So how do you kind of ensure that you're both kind of very reflective and relevant to consumers but actually people are very different culturally? Now it's a good question. And again, you asked me a question about empathy. That's all about empathy. And I would combine it with curiosity. If you go to places, explain to people how the world is based on your lens, then you will not grasp this authenticity. If I go to Thailand, that's one of the countries I'm taking care of. And I'm explaining to the team how single moms or moms behave. Who am I? So again, ask questions. Ask questions. Ask people to take you outside of the big cities. Ask questions to take you to where people live. And you get the insights. And don't look for things that will make you uncomfortable. Naturally, marketers don't like things that make them uncomfortable because the answer to the question would be tough. I keep telling the team, if you feel uncomfortable, it's a good sign. I mean, that you might be up to something really big and true and authentic. Embrace discomfort. Embrace discomfort, root for discomfort. It's even like that somebody said that great ideas never came from comfort zone. So if you have an idea that is truly new and you ask people if they will like it, they will say no because they don't know what it is. Same was inside. If you have an idea, a campaign where people tells you, oh, I love it. Not good. I prefer when people are scared when I show them something because it means that most people may be up to something really big. Yeah, it's in a way, we often are scared of the reaction to new ideas. And so very quickly, we're looking at the data and it feels like it's negative, but really what it is is just different to what people are used to. Absolutely, and ask the right question. I give you an example, I work on shower gel. If you test new smells, vanilla will always be. If you ask people what you want to buy, they will tell you vanilla, they will tell you whatever. You change the question and you tell them tomorrow if you go to a store and you see all those smells, which one do you want to smell? Which one will you grab and smell and then vanilla goes to the bottom of the list. Because suddenly the news, the newness is something that is very attractive. Well, if you ask about purchase, people will go to the comfort zone and they will grab what they want. So ask the right question. Interesting, well actually thinking about questions, and I'm gonna merge a few things we've talked about because most of the data we receive is either behavioral data or we've gone out and asked questions through research. But often the source of that data is not necessarily reflective of people. So there are biases in the data. So how do we kind of work around that and kind of achieve that? I think we're even talking. I believe in qualitative research a lot. If the design thinking lab in Stanford will tell you that it's enough to talk to five people to know if you're right or not. So again, data is great at giving you leads, possibilities. But there is nothing that replace the direct contact with people. Take the data, have hypothesis, double check them with people. And doing so, as you say, make sure that you are really talking to the right target. In November 2022, I downloaded chat GPT. Like what it seems like the rest of the industry. Everything has kind of changed since then, certainly the conversation. Lots of organizations now trying to figure out how they leverage genitive AI into their organizations. I'm curious to understand kind of what you've done in the space or exploring. We are starting. AI has been there for a long time. Chat GPT suddenly brought it to life and chat GPT showing what's happening in the backstage. So it's been there. So we've been using AI for quite some time right now. I think what Chat GPT is doing that it's forcing us to think strategically about AI. So what would be the role of AI today and tomorrow? And what is in many terms of organization? We don't have the answer. It's just starting. We know it's gonna stay. It's not a trend, it's gonna stay. So we are getting organized. And we, but we need to do it quite fast because it's moving fast. We're in super fast. I mean, as you said, November 2022, like first time I heard about it, I was like, what is it? And I really was using it. My kids are using it every day. So this time last year, I was probably having this conversation about the Metaverse. Yes. That obviously, there was a lot of hype last year. The hype has certainly gone away, but the Metaverse hasn't necessarily. And so I'm interested in kind of what needs to happen in that space for it to kind of, I guess, probably take off in terms of adoption. And you know, we are learning with Metaverse. I'm convinced it will stay. It will become bigger, but most probably in a different form. So we are starting, we have our first project. We want to use Metaverse with dentists. It's doing well. So like in many things in marketing, you need to have a clear-point in mind that you want to solve for. Metaverse will not solve for everything. But they cancel for a few things if you are very clear about what you're doing. That makes a lot of sense. If anything may be without the attention and kind of the hype, it can actually find it's footing and we can find real uses for it. Hype is always a challenge. Because hype, in two ways, it makes some things too big for what they are and it kills some of the things that are not taken off where they could take off. So hype is great, but we need to step back and really look at the tools for what they are again, once more. Looking forward, in five years, ten years, or whatever, how the farmers of the future want to think about it, but like what do you see on the horizon as the next? Either challenges or opportunities, kind of in the marketing sense. Sustainability will be one. We really need to, I mean with e-commerce, with all the packaging we are generating right now, with the climate change, with all the challenges we are facing in terms of plastic. We need to talk about sustainability. A huge challenge we have right now is that I feel we went too far into personalisation. So we really need to see how we can both personalise the future, make it in a way accessible to many people. So it's personalisation at mass. And health, health is big. But health, both physical and mental. And the second one, being a very, very important one. You can see the world is not mentally healthier right now, and COVID did not improve the situation. So mental health is critical. I've been talking recently to people about the need to understand all the social determinants of health, because then you start to realise that there are so many things that impact our health. With that in mind, pretty much every brand can actually be a brand that can have a positive impact on people's health. Yeah, I agree. Where about SMI? Oh, yes, yes. I do, I do. Where about SMI? And SMI can make you feel better in terms of stress, may lower your blood pressure, will make you look more successful, so more confident, that people don't SMI. So simply, yes, we can do a great job in terms of health, giving people the right product to brush that. But if we can make them aware of the need for them to not hold their SMI, because hold back their SMI, because when they SMI freely, they're happier and healthier, that would be great. So those are the things we can do. But again, if we truly put people at the centre of what we do, let's fix the mental health problem. We have money, we have advertising, we have products, we have rich, most probably more than the governments have, we can make it. But we need to truly believe in it. Absolutely. Yves, thank you very much. You're welcome. It's my pleasure. Thank you.