 Welcome, everyone. I'm Fred Kaiser, your host at the Fast Team National Resource Center and FA Production Studios at the Sun and Fun Complex in Lakeland, Florida. An exciting sun and fun it's been so far. We still have a few more days left, and it's just going to get better, better, and better. Just a couple of housekeeping items. We talked a little bit about evacuating the building and this kind of stuff. Don't forget your cell phones. There'll be questions at the end of all the presentations. OK, time for questions and answers. Before you start speaking, wait for someone to get a microphone to you so everyone captures your question. That way we can make sure everybody hears it. There'll be a sign-in sheet in the back in case you've signed up on FA Safety.gov to make sure that you have or will get credit for this presentation. OK, our next presenters are Platinum Aviation. Serious Standardization Training Center at Opalaka Airport in Miami. They're the leading flight training center to offer TAA instruction. Tina was the 2007 Southern region CFI of the year, and Carrie is the master CFI. Their topic today is flying the glass cockpit. And frankly, I can think of nothing more important than getting these guys on the stage so that we can find out more about flying the glass cockpit. So please, let's welcome Tina and Carrie. Thanks for a nice introduction, friend. We're from Platinum Aviation, and he said at Opalaka Airport, we just opened a new premier facility at FXE. If any of you have been there, it's the old Banyan facility. And I invite anybody to come out there and see that. We have Mrs. Tina. She was, like he said, the 2007 flight instructor of the year for the Southern region. I put 2006 on the presentation. She reminded me this morning that I was wrong. We're both serious standardized instructors. Between the two of us, we probably give more serious instruction annually than anybody. And this is Carrie. Carrie Hagney is our chief pilot. He's a former NAFI master flight instructor, CFII. MEI, ATP, and a serious standardized instructor pilot. He's also a lead FAA fast team representative. We're both very active in the fast team. That's our contact information. I'll put it back up at the end if anybody wants to contact us after this. We're here to talk about instructing, as you said, instructing in glass cockpit airplanes, but also examining in glass cockpit airplanes, what the DPEs should know, and the differences in these kinds of airplanes. So we'll talk about what's so different. We get a lot of instructors that come to our facility that want to teach in these planes. And they don't really understand that there's a big difference in the way you go about it and how you teach in these planes. We'll talk about what's different with the applicants. This is skewed a little bit towards serious, because that's what we do about 90% of our stuff with. But the applicants we find are a bit different. And we'll talk about how that affects the training and the safety and everything involved with it. And how it affects the pilots and you and anybody out there that's an instructor. You wanna take the aircraft? Sure, first we'll talk a little bit about the aircraft. Most of the technologically advanced aircraft are much faster. The serious and the Columbia, well now the CESTA 400, no. They're much faster and it makes the airplane that's more capable and people are gonna use and go places faster after they get a private pilot's license. And that figures into this vastly. They're much more sophisticated systems due to the sophisticated avionics. You've got some of the aircraft have two alternators, two batteries, maybe four moving maps at one time in the aircraft. And it can be a lot to keep up with, especially for an instructor. You know, typically people that were getting their private pilot's license, we're doing it in a 172 or a very simple airplane. Tina and I and our instructors, we routinely teach people from zero time in SR 22 turbos that go 219 knots and up to 25,000 feet. So we're having to prep these people that we're gonna turn loose on a solo and a plane and a complex high performance, well not complex, the year doesn't come up, but high performance airplane that is not typical of what private pilot's solo in. So you have to have them trained to a higher level before you ever turn them loose. The high altitude operation. You just touched on that, yeah. These aircraft are generally way less tolerant for bad airmanship. And some of these sophisticated aircraft, you're not gonna be able to get away with bad airmanship with slightly not so great landings or that was good enough. Good enough in these aircraft has really gotta be spot on. It's gotta be done exactly the way it should be. And it figures into the faster thing too. I mean, like I say, you got a low time guy. I mean, just tuning the knobs and tuning the frequencies in these planes, 30 miles can go by before they get put in what they need to get put in. So they gotta be way ahead of things. The aircraft are much more capable. And this kind of leads into another area of teaching where because they are so capable, they're designed to be flown from point A to point B. They're designed to be a traveling machine. We as instructors have to work with the PTS, but the aircraft is much more capable than what the PTS calls for. They are cross country machines. Yep. Now the applicants and like I say, this is skewed serious because that's what we do. But we've dealt with this group of people for a long time, Tina and I have. And they're all highly successful. They're renting an airplane to learn how to fly. And some of them are renting an airplane that's $350 an hour plus the instructor to get their private pilot license in. So it's a little different. I put up here that they're motivated and goal oriented. A lot of them, you say all pilots they're wanting to learn to fly are, but some of our people buy the plane before they even know anything. And they have a mission in mind, something they wanna do. They're tired of the airlines and they're doing this to have reliable transportation. So until we can get them their instrument rating and let them lose safely and even get some time under the belt with that, we gotta keep a tight reign on them because of that. They're very intelligent people. They're successful and goal oriented intelligent. They've gotten where they are in life and where they can afford to buy and fly these aircraft for a reason. And therefore they expect learning to fly to be something that they can accomplish rather quickly just like some of the other things that they do and that they can be successful at it right away like they are in their business or in their work that they do. And this can bring something else to the table when you're dealing with these people and teaching these people how to fly. They, this generally doesn't come that easily to them and we have to end up telling them no on a certain level. And they're not used to having someone tell them no or they're not used to being good at something right away. So this brings another level of instruction to the table. Yeah, a lot. It takes, we find this when we try to hire other instructors, you know, the younger group. It takes a pretty powerful instructor to stand up to some of these people. They're highly successful businessmen and to tell them no, they shouldn't go today is sometimes a difficult thing. They're much more likely to use the aircraft in a real way sooner. As part of the reason why they've sought out this type of aircraft, the technologically advanced aircraft is they have a mission. They are learning to fly and buying the aircraft because they have a need and a mission to get from point A to point B, whether it's for work and they're tired of the airlines or it's for family. They have houses in different locations throughout the US or the islands and they're fully expecting the day they get their ticket to load the plane up, get in it and go somewhere on a trip, on a real-world trip. The old thing in aviation that instructors all had to worry about, you know, to get their itis and counseling is people not to get that mentality. Applies in these planes far more than it does in the little planes that people were running around getting $100 hamburgers in. Because like I say, they had these missions in mind and they were getting their plane. I just had a guy, I got his private pilot just a couple of weeks ago and he went off and went to Boston from Miami on one of his first trips. That's just not what you usually see. The teaching process, don't ignore the technology. This is something that I see a lot. I fly with a lot of instructors every week and this is one of the big issues with instructors that are even have a lot of time in the high technology aircraft. I just flew with a gentleman this week. He's got about a thousand hours in serious aircraft and I don't know if he was purposely trying to go against the technology but the way everything was set up, the multi-function display, the two GPS's, none of it was set up to help him with the flight. None of it was set up properly and when I questioned him on how he had the item set up, the avionics set up, his answer to me was simply, well, I used to teach in a 1972 warrior and I can fly without all this stuff and my answer to him was yeah, I used to teach in a 72 warrior as well and I cherish the fact that I have traffic and a moving map and all the technology here and let's get it set up where it can help us and benefit us on our flight and I had even a little difficulty convincing him that it's there for a reason and to kind of embrace the technology so we run into that. And you're cheating your student if you don't. I mean, they're flying these kind of planes for reason. They're highly capable and you need to embrace that and show them how to work it. We get a lot of people that come to us that learn somewhere else and we find that they know very little about even the most basic things about the autopilot, for example, and they'll say to us, oh, my instructor told me I really shouldn't be using the autopilot. Well, if it's in the plane, you need to know how to work it and you need to know how to work it flawlessly. Being an expert, if you're teaching in these planes especially or even just flying in them, you really need to be an expert at the technology and what's available in your aircraft. This, I ran into a situation two weeks ago where I was flying with another pilot in a very sophisticated aircraft and we had an abnormal situation in IMC and terrain up in Montana. And he completely reverted back to the old standard VOR, swinging needle, was tuning the ADF and we had full FMS available. We had terrain pages on our PFDs and this person, if you're not an expert at the technology that's in the aircraft all the time, if anything abnormal happens, you're leaving yourself really open for something bad to happen. And if you're an instructor, as an instructor, you need to learn the avionics in the airplane so flawlessly that you can do anything with it by talking your student through it without touching a single knob because if you're the one always touching the knobs and turning things, they're never gonna learn it and you absolutely need to learn how to do that before you teach in these airplanes. These aircraft call for a lot of creativity in the teaching process as well. Yeah, we kinda like our private pilots, I kinda joke around sometimes that we're actually do it backwards from a traditional airplane the whole process because in a simple airplane you take them out and you do the normal things and by the time you teach them how to land they don't know how to go anywhere. And in our airplanes, from lesson one we go somewhere. We get them into the button pressing process, entering flight plans, although a simple one just to a destination, but every single time we go somewhere it's more scenario-based, it's not maneuver-based. So they're making critical decisions about what's going on when things go wrong, for example. Staying up to date, staying up to date with the latest technology, it's changing, every day it seems like it's changing and it's very difficult to stay up to date with the systems in the aircraft that we're flying. Tina and I give these presentations a lot and I'm getting to the point where I tell everybody anything that I say today doesn't have anything to do with this tomorrow. It's really amazing because in the old days, airplanes, you had to have an airframe change or an engine change, which was a big thing before anybody had to learn anything new. Now it's just a bunch of ones and zeros in a computer and the whole thing operates completely different. You get a 11-year-old program in this thing and you got a whole different technology. And quite frankly, I don't know how anybody, other than people that do this all day, every day, can keep up with this stuff. And we even have a hard time keeping up at times. Now we've got advantages up here and we've given these presentations a lot and talked about the advantages of these airplanes. In this particular case, we're not talking about the advantages of the airplane so much. We're talking about the advantages the airplane gives from the instructor point of view. Situational awareness. If you're teaching an instrument student, for example, you can see far out your situational awareness where you're at and you can plan what you're trying to do and the situation you're trying to set the student up for. Works out really well. Traffic avoidance is the same way. We have active traffic in these planes. It makes it an instrument situation. Your forest is an instructor to be looking inside a lot because you have to point to things and show them what to do. At the same time, you can't get suckered into the idea that the traffic is always gonna work. If the other guy doesn't have his transponder on, guess what? And it happens a good bit. It all contributes to the overall safety. I feel much safer in these planes. I really do when I'm out teaching them. And it makes for easier transitions between aircraft. Once you know one system, and we're gonna get into this a little bit about how they present in different airplanes. When you're jumping into a new plane, the first thing is where to look. That's the first thing you gotta learn. It's where to look so you can get your information fast. And in these planes, I find it real easy. You jump into one that's similarly equipped and the transition is much easier. And we'll talk about this last one here in a minute. Do you wanna add anything to those things I talked about, Tina? I think you covered it pretty good. Flight instructors have always been known as a field where people worked until they could get a real job. And so they never were able to charge any kind of realistic rates. This whole thing has changed that. And I think we're proof of it. If you really are an expert in what we're doing, because there's only 500 or so serious instructors around, but if you're a true expert in it, you'll be sought out so much that you can charge realistic rates. She and I always had a waitin' list of people wanting to train with us because everybody knew that we knew this better than anybody. And so if you're an instructor and you wanna make a living at it, become an expert at these things. This advantages, again, to the instructor. Too much time with the eyes inside the cockpit. This is probably the biggest one, I would say. There's so much to look at in there and it takes a lot of flying time as an instructor to know instinctively exactly where you need to look for what information it is you're seeking out. And it's very easy to just keep your eyes glued inside the cockpit with all the maps and the traffic and to get lazy with it. Yeah, that's a common thing you tell student pilots, but then as an instructor you find yourself getting, I won't say lazy, but you're in there trying to teach the guy the very material that you don't want him to look at. You're saying, look outside, but no, you need to look inside to learn this stuff. And there's more of it than in a conventional airplane. And it leads to increased cockpit distractions in a high traffic environment. You gotta be careful, there's just way too much to look at inside on the screens. Anything to add to that one? Nope. You wanna talk about that, I know. Yeah, yeah, information overload. This is expected when people, the first few flights in the aircraft, whether they're a student pilot or a seasoned instructor, everybody's gonna go through the information overload because you don't know the sequence of events of the avionics, you don't know where you need to be looking and so forth. This happens with, I see it a lot with instructors that have maybe, I don't know, 50 to 100 hours teaching in the Cirrus or the Glass cockpit and we'll go out and do a flight, do a check flight and I can see them managing the avionics and managing what's going on in the aircraft but then having to make a radio call becomes a little difficult for them. They have to think about making the radio call as to where they are and all that because they're overloaded with all the avionics that they're going through and trying to teach. So we see this a lot. Now let's talk about it from the student side for a minute. The, you say, well, what would it be like to learn how to fly in one of these airplanes that has all these buttons? Cause there's a lot to look at. And when we first started doing this, I wondered that and wondered where that would go. Quite honestly, it doesn't make a difference. A guy that doesn't know how to fly, doesn't know how to fly. You stick him in the plane and you say, this is it? He doesn't know any better. That's it and that's what he knows he has to learn. Some of the most difficult ones we have are the higher time pilots that have flown simple planes for a long time. Those tend to be harder people to get checked out in these kinds of airplanes. They're kind of fixed in their ways and they don't really want to embrace this. Even if they want to, they're just not doing it. Lack of currency really plays into these planes. The analogy I use is my remote control for my television at home with my home theater unit has a lot of buttons on it that I hardly ever use. And if I roll over on it when I'm sleeping and my TV goes off, it takes me 30 minutes to get the thing back on. Sometimes I can't get it back on, gotta call for help. But these planes have an equivalent amount of buttons in them and I fly them every day, all day. And sometimes I wonder what it's like for the guy that flies it once a week trying to learn. Or even worse, a guy that owns one or only rents one and he flies it once a month. We're a little more strict about our renters because of that. They have to keep up a little more currency than most renters. I know it even happens to us. I'm primarily teaching in the avidine system and when I have a student in the G1000 system, if I haven't flown the G1000 in a month or a month and a half, I'm going home the night before with the G1000 book and I'm reading it and I'm reading the notes that I took when I went to G1000 school because I'm not gonna know where to tell him what button to push or so forth. And I'm doing it every day. I still have to take it home and study it. Like me, I mean, I got thousands of hours of teaching in these things and Platinum, we just did a major renovation of the place and opened that new big facility and that was a huge deal. And I was involved in a lot of that and it wasn't doing much flying for the past two and a half months, I suppose. And I flew something, but then when I got in the plane and started actively instructing hard core again, I was like, wow, this really does need emphasizing. Yeah. Constantly changing technology. Like he had mentioned earlier, what we say today might not even be valid tomorrow because the software's changing so quickly. You can fly one Avidyne or one Garmin in an older aircraft that doesn't have the latest or the few latest software updates and the presentation is gonna be slightly different where some of your engine instruments or your map or destination, ETA, just some little things are gonna change through software updates that people might not have done in an older aircraft. Yeah. Well, even like the ones that have, say a Cirrus with Avidyne with wasps or one that doesn't have wasps. For the instrument guys, what's it gonna do? Is it gonna fly the whole by itself? Is it gonna do the procedure turn by itself on autopilot? What's it gonna do? And as an instructor, you need to know what it's gonna do, not wait till it happens. You need to be four steps ahead of the guy. And unless you know how the software is loaded into that particular airplane, you don't know until you see it happen. Which brings up DPEs or instructors flying in planes they're unfamiliar with. They need to ask some questions before they get there. I know the right questions to ask about how this plane's equipped. Similar avionics systems differ greatly between aircraft. That's one of the things we're gonna get into here in a minute. So you've flown a Cirrus SR-20 with Avidyne and now you're gonna hop into a Saratoga and go. Same stuff. Well, not really, and we'll talk about that. Tina and I both, we've got a lot of experience in the G-1000 stuff. And that's probably the thing that most people have this got glass cockpit experience and flown. How about the people here today? How many people have flown glass cockpit airplanes? How many of them were Garmin and Avidyne stuff? So Garmin leads the way amongst this group anyway. And that's kind of where most of the manufacturers are kind of heading in various ways. I would say that the G-1000 stuff is less intuitive. You need to learn it better before you actually use it. The Avidyne's more intuitive. You can see everything is right in front of you. If you don't know how to do it, you can typically read what's on the screen and figure it out. The G-1000's not that way. Anything else you wanna add to that? Nope, just the G-1000's even changing. Yeah. I mean, you know, whether it has the autopilot or whether it has wasps. But the, I think most people's initial experience with this stuff is the Cessna-type product, the 172 with a G-1000. It's still a slow airplane. It gives you a lot of time to punch the buttons and figure things out. Like I say, our private pilots that are flying a 22 turbo, they're moving along pretty quick. And it's amazing to me sometimes that we get halfway across the state before a student gets something figured out that I know they should know. And I'm still coaching them along and they were halfway across the state before we get going in the direction we're supposed to be going. And talking about changing the technology, that's basically, you know, the Garmin perspective, it's in the series. It's a very nice system. It's based on the G-1000. A lot of things work the same, but it's a lot different. There's a lot more technology there. As an instructor, there's a whole lot more. You need to be versed in how to operate. As an instructor teaching a private pilot from scratch, zero time in that thing. It's gonna be quite a chore and the instructor better be super sharp or things are gonna get behind. And super patient. And super patient. The patient's level that takes sometimes in these things is a good bit more than in conventional airplanes. We might be a half an hour on the ground on the first few lessons with somebody in this aircraft before we're ready to get to the hold short and take off. It might take even a half hour. Sometimes I look at the Hive's mirror right before we take off, I look back at it and I'm like, whew, that was a long time. But you can't rush them. They won't get it. You can't get impatient. I know from my own experience and other people I've talked to, a lot of instructors, to me in a conventional airplane, the panel that is least understood is the audio panel because most instructors getting to hurry in or punching the buttons for the student. And this thing is like one giant audio panel. You can't get impatient and start pressing the buttons for the people. You gotta talk them through it. Let them make mistakes and let them see by the way of their error. If they punch in an error, let them leave the error there when it's safe to do so and let them make the mistake and see what the result of that error is. It's really important to teach them to set and verify. Don't set and assume when these things. That's the standard Avidine display system. It's got the two separate GPS units that you can manage individually. I actually like that feature. I like being able to set that up. Whatever I want to. Now, the thing is about these two same planes. Cirrus SR-22, same thing. But as a say as an examiner, the way you examine in these planes varies greatly between the one we just showed in this one. How do you have an instrument student do a failure? In the Cirrus perspective, it's very difficult. There's so many redundancies to that thing, you almost can't make a realistic failure happen in that airplane. In this Avidine system, there's a lot of backups, but there's a proper procedure that you would need to know and we don't have it in an hour to go through each and every one of these. But what I'm seeing is DPEs not properly examining people. Because they just don't know. We end up teaching our students how to handle the failures properly by shutting things down, pulling circuit breakers and going through the proper procedure with a failure. And then we also have to prepare them for that on their check ride. The DPE is probably not going to allow them to actually shut some systems down and pull the actual circuit breakers. And it's completely different procedure if you're not actually shutting the system down or pulling the appropriate circuit breakers. In particular what she's talking about that would easiest to explain is the autopilot on this plane here. If you have a PFD failure, the proper procedure is to pull the two circuit breakers that control that PFD and get it out of the system because you don't want it feeding false information to the autopilot. Well, the autopilot behaves differently with those two circuit breakers pulled. So if you've got an applicant that knows how to do it the correct way and then the examiner does not let him pull those circuit breakers, then he can't do what he's trained to do. He has to do it some other way and make it up. So we have to train them for both ways in case the guy doesn't let them do it the right way. And that's kind of messed up. We need to get everybody on the same page here. This is one of the Piper products, the Archer which shows the basic avidine system. This system, however, has one electrical bus whereas the Sears has the two. So if you're transitioning from one aircraft to the other, this system has the one alternator and one main battery. The attitude indicator in this aircraft works off of its own standby battery. You can purchase another battery for the aircraft but it doesn't come standard. Another alternator, but it doesn't come standard. So the emergency procedures or abnormal procedures in this avidine plane are gonna be significantly different than that in another aircraft with the same avionics system. And even some of the display information is different on this avidine as far as the Sears avidine. You'll see you've got like a little engine gauge on the upper left-hand corner of the PFD and some of the little snippets of information are displayed in different places on the PFD and the MFD as compared to in a Sears or another aircraft with the avidine. One thing as an instructor, I feel fortunate that we kinda came up through this through the Sears side because they've been real supportive in providing very documented standardized procedures for how to teach in these planes. And when we first started doing it with Sears, we adopted their procedures for all the planes that we teach in. And they've done a real good job of controlling who can teach in the planes that know it well. We'll talk about that in a little bit about how in a lot of the other airplanes, this any old joke can get in there, jump in there and start teaching. It's kind of a little case of the blind leading the blind in a lot of ways. And when you're talking about a private pilot that's not instrument-rating, well, that's one thing. But when we get into an instrument-rated pilot, it gets to be a little bit more. The Malibu Meridian turboprop, it's currently utilizing the avidine and once again, it's another type of layout for the avidine. So it's even different from their Saratoga, it's different from the Sears, but yet it's still avidine. In a lot of cases, it's how the autopilot behaves to a PFD failure. That's a lot of what it boils down to. That's an electrical system. But if you don't know what your autopilot's gonna do when the PFD fails. And I'll tell you, people that haven't flown glass, that's their biggest thing. They go, what if all this fails? Quite frankly, it's so backed up, it works, if you know how to handle it, it's a non-event. But you really need to know how it's all hooked together, how the systems are hooked together. And if you do, it's a non-event. If you don't, it's a big event. The King Air 90, the new ones, the GTI, they're utilizing even yet another form of new technology for their displays. This is what you'll see in more of the jets, if you're transitioning upward. And this is just yet another completely different system to learn and manage and read at night before you fly it the next day. I have the opportunity and privilege to fly one of these. And it is a wonderful system, but I find in many ways that we're more equipped and a little easier to manage the systems in the smaller general aviation aircraft, like the G1000 and the Avadine, are a little more intuitive and have a little more of the tools readily at hand for you than even this advanced system does for when people are stepping up. And the general aviation, that's the general aviation, the smaller planes, Cirrus, Columbia's, Piper's and things, those planes, the systems that are in those look like these, but they're easier to work. But the funny thing is, is these more expensive, more capable systems have less functionality in them in a lot of ways. And the interesting thing is with our clientele, we see them moving up into turboprop airplanes, pilates, things like that. And they all of a sudden jump from the easy to operate into this kind of stuff. And it's a big jump for somebody that doesn't have a lot of time. And I think we're bringing down the time, people used to have to build up higher and higher times before they could get into more complex airplanes that really go fast. And I think we're seeing a time because of this glass cockpit stuff that is bringing that timeline down. And you're gonna see lower time people in more complex airplanes. That is the trend and that's what's happening. You're the pilot of this one. The pilot of this one. He just broke 500 hours. And probably 200 hours of those 500 are in this brand new King Air 90 GTI. Yeah, I just got him his multi-engine rating not long ago. Last May, a year ago. Yeah, and now he's in a King Air 90 GTI, so. He's not flying it around by himself, but he's. He will be. He will be in the very near future. And that's, we're seeing more and more of that with the people that go through these technologically advanced aircraft. When I went to school for this airplane, I was like, all right, let's check out, when I was doing avionics training, I said, well, let's see what the weather's doing in our destination and see what it's doing at the airports near our destination because this is a luxury I have in the Cirrus and the Cessna and the Piper with their glass panels. And everybody at Flight Safety looked at me. I was like, what? You can't do that. I was like, you're kidding me. I said, this fancy system and we can't see what's going on in there. And they're like, oh no, you can't do that. A lot of this technology is there to try to make more people able to use airplanes as traveling machines. I mean, I know that Cirrus is dream and that's, they've got the Cirrus jet coming out. And like I say, it's bringing down the time level of what, when people could actually possibly fly these things. And if you're an instructor and you're dealing with people that are gonna work their way up through the ranks of airplanes, it's gonna happen much faster. And when the Cirrus jet comes out in a couple of years you're gonna have low time people. Then you got the problem that even if they get the jet they're gonna have to have a type rating because it is a jet. And type ratings have to be flown to ATP standards. So if you're teaching somebody that that's where they're heading you gotta be real tough on them right from day one to fly very professionally. One of the things that Tina and I do is I think most flight schools the bigger ones particularly are teaching people to be airline pilots. So you're really training somebody to be a right cedar. You're not teaching them to be a pilot in command. And then that's even in a two pilot operation. What we're doing, almost all our clients we're teaching them to be single pilot, IFR, low time probably moving into a jet at low time. So you have to have a higher standard right from day one. Well at the very least from day one these people flying the technologically advanced aircraft they're gonna be out there in the system the day they get their certificate. They're out there filing IFR, loading up their families. They're out there on the airways with you and I. I mean they're going somewhere they're the decision makers now. We have to train them from day one to be able to fly the aircraft and be the decision maker. Take responsibility for everything that's going on. Which can be quite challenging. And we talked about moving into the Mustang jet. It was one of our instructors right now is that at Flight Safety doing it? With a customer transitioning into this thing and he texted Tina the other day about the difficulty the customer was having with this because he thinks it's so simple it looks like what he's got but not screaming along at 350 or whatever. Yeah and the customer he learned from scratch in G1000. So he's familiar with the avionics and he's still having a difficult time the owner of the aircraft. This presentation we're giving is a variant of one that I just gave recently at FISDO 19's annual DPE meeting because Tina and I both teach the inspectors down there at our FISDO about these planes and the point that I keep making to people and I think they're getting it is it's to the point with these things that I don't see how an inspector can walk up and ramp a guy and know what he's looking at. I just don't know how it's possible. They're changing so fast and us doing it professionally every day of the week and she and I are incessant readers about this stuff. I don't know how you can keep up and DPEs, same thing with them. They need to learn the stuff before they, their name is gonna be the last name in that book and if something happens to one of their applicants that they sign off on and then something happens to him the lawyer is gonna be going back and going who signed off on this guy last? How much time did you have on this airplane? So need to be thinking about that stuff and here's a third system that Sirius looked at seriously there for a while, this is the L3 and in the end, I was talking to some people there and they really liked the system but in the end I'm not talking for them but in the end it boiled down to how are you gonna train all the Sirius instructors out there and keep everybody comfortable on three different systems because you just keep adding these different systems out there and it was a very good system but it's hard enough keeping up with what we got so it kind of comes down to specialization. With planes under 12-5 that aren't jets you don't need a type rating and an instructor can just jump in any one of those you don't feel a single engineer plane, here we go but do you really know it and then maybe is it coming time Sirius has forced it upon us I mean we have to be Sirius instructors that designation only lasts a year it has to be renewed, we go to conventions every year but the CFI that's out there that's not part of that program is it time for people to think about specializing in certain types of equipment and then if you do, then you can be in high demand and charge more money and make a living at it and not be pressing on towards some other career. Anything you wanna add to that? No. So how does all this technology and affect the training requirements I kind of touched on that a little bit about we gotta train them to a higher standard because where most of these people are headed. You wanna take that? Well clearly systems knowledge is important as we've been discussing you need to be able to know and be prepared what's gonna happen when you have a failure and how everything is tied in together so that you know how to do the procedures properly. Well I tell my people first thing because a lot of the training we do with these things is failures once they know how to you know when we're doing transition people that know how to fly already and I teach them you know you can't fix something unless you know what's broken and then how that interfaces with everything else and then warning lights when they come on these things are electrical, they're computers I mean you all have computers and you know how they misbehave you know if a light comes on oil pressure light or alternator failure light or something you almost gotta assume that it isn't so just for a minute and then go to a page that tries to prove that it is so through some other gauge or method don't be so quick to jump to you know oil pressure light comes on and I've seen people I've seen people just declare their own emergency that wasn't and I kept telling them in a simulation I said the motor's still running it's just the light that's on and they keep pressing on into what eventually would have been an off airport crash for a simple light malfunction came on you know all you had to do is go to the engine page and see that temps are all under control everything's cool it's a faulty light but you see that a lot you do the button and knob ology are key we can't say that one enough knowing what button and what knob is gonna get you the end result that you want and this is something that only just seat time is really gonna get you I see instructors try to sit in the aircraft with external power and try to go through everything and hang or fly sitting in the aircraft and until they get up in the air and go through it in a real scenario cross country cross countries they just don't they won't get it until they get in the plane and start flying it once you basically know these planes the best thing to do is get in and go in a long cross country a nice safe one and easy one and just start pushing buttons the GPS that you're not using play with it make sure it's not on cross feel and just keep playing with the thing as an instructor if you're gonna get in a plane in actual instrument conditions you better know this stuff super fast because the student will mess it all up and you gotta be able to put it back in fast so you can't have any hesitation if you're an instructor in these things you gotta know it very well the ability to handle the failures we've been talking about that a lot yeah that's pretty much if you're transitioning somebody in one of these planes that's the big thing yeah the ability to hand fly and manage the systems that's a lot of buttons to push and these planes are intended to be flown on autopilot but we all know they fail at the most inopportune times we had one guy that happened to he got his instrument ticket and blasted off into really bad weather and his autopilot failed as soon as he went to clouds first week out of the box luckily I was behind him and talking to him in another airplane but they can be a handful when you have an autopilot failure like he said it's never gonna happen you know on a clear VFR day never it's always gonna happen at the worst time it happened to myself and another pilot last week up in Montana in absolute blizzard IMC quarter mile visibility we take off autopilot failed we had another issue with the aircraft before the autopilot failure and now we've got to reset all the the FMS system we've got to redo all of our navigation while keeping the aircraft you know wings level and right side up and dealing with ATC it can be a handful resetting all of the electrical stuff if you don't know it inside out and backwards you can get upside down really quick and see you know as an instructor it's a fine line you gotta walk talking teaching your students because you know do you say I want you to hand fly this thing most all the time so you learn how to hand fly it they really need to know how to work the autopilot how the plane's intended to be flown and if it's operated incorrectly it can get you in a lot of trouble I mean I could go on for a whole another hour about stupid things I've seen people do gets back to that set and verify thing I mean I took off one time out of Fort Lauderdale exec and the guy he's pressing the buttons and then he gets his head down in the cockpit because he's slow about turning the knobs and if I hadn't been there we would have crashed in the Pompano airport own autopilot because that's how he set it up you know he set it up to descend in a turn and he's got his head down in the cockpit looking at the GPS that he's slow about tuning in so you gotta teach you gotta take figure out where that fine line is between hand flying and automation but and don't ignore the technology and make them just hand fly it ability to properly manage the automation this is probably the biggest key I think to flying these aircraft is properly managing the automation people just seem to get tangled up in it they they do they get tangled up I mean if you got the airport in sight you don't need to be flying on autopilot you know if you're VFR and I see that all the time I'll just wait and let it go and see how long it's gonna last I mean I think they would turn base on autopilot it's ridiculous sometimes another one that drives me crazy is we've been going for 100 miles direct to the airport the airport is straight ahead and they'll look at the map they'll start looking for the airport and they'll look to the left I've never figured it out almost all of them do it I've seen them where they look at the moving map display the airport is clearly off of our left wing and they're looking straight ahead trying to find the airport they don't use it's amazing to have that much technology and they'll ignore it or even use it in a weird kind of way well and you can like flying out of the busy airports like Fort Lauderdale executive if you don't have the automation managed properly I mean it's there to help you you can have one GPS on traffic dedicated just to traffic you can have one on a moving map one on the CDI page this is how we prefer to fly it and we'll see people that will have a trip page on the MFD the multi-function display they'll have a GPS one set on airport frequencies which we don't need while we're taking off we've already got them preloaded and then the GPS two will be on on like terrain or something we definitely don't need flying out of Fort Lauderdale and it'll stay that way until they get their minds caught back up with the aircraft until they're out of the busy airspace and caught back up with the plane and got the power brought back and maybe engaged autopilot by then then they'll start to manage the automation but then it's too late they missed out on where they really needed the automation to work for them I see a lot of that checklist or another thing checklist on these planes are on the MFD so we don't use paper checklist and even the emergency checklist they're always there something goes wrong that button's always there and a checklist is not a do list you don't have to sit there and go door closed door closed you gotta manage that a little bit but what you see a lot of people do is they'll dutifully do the checklist and we teach them to have the climb checklist up before they take off and then switch back over to the engine page so you got the checklist there ready when you need to do it and I usually point out when we would land back at the airport that they dutifully set that up and never went back to it and it's still there it's kind of interesting that people will ignore that functionality yeah they do and sometimes I'm talking about high time people here I'm not talking about a 20 hour guy that's doing that well managing the automation that's the biggest key to flying the aircraft really yeah I never flew for the airlines there's some guys in our building that did and they've told me that's one of the biggest things that they teach with their pilots is when to properly manage the automation when to use it, when not to use it and that's something that's kind of coming into this small aircraft flying ability to properly configure the avionics for the current flight conditions that's what I was just talking about a little bit ago yeah the you know if you're you got a lot of things you can use in that plane and you need to decide which one should be up when and you don't see people doing that the terrain function you know that's on like an avidine system with the Garmin 430s you don't need that taken off out of Florida at eight feet above sea level traffic's more important because there's a lot of airplanes but you know if I was taken out of Aspen at night or something I guess I would put everything on terrain and how many other airplanes are out there, none so you know we don't have to worry about that so much and you got to use a little bit of common sense about it sometimes I tell people that you know they want to get into this rote memorization about what the book says do and you need to stop sometimes because they do need to know what the book says but at the same time they need to stop let's use common sense what matters the most right now anything else you want to add to that? No that's key what matters the most right now it's common sense you don't even have to be a pilot you know so proper knowledge of procedures by CFIs, pilots and DPEs that's what it boils down to there is a proper procedure in an avidine-equipped Cirrus when the PFD fails there's a known thing you're supposed to do one good answer and there's a different answer depending on how the planes are configured and I can't go over all that here in the short amount of time but if you're going to teach in these things you need to make it your business to know and if you're a DPE you need to make it your business to know or you're not properly examining the applicant which brings me to this kind of strange slide that doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with this but Cirrus has done a good job of controlling this and now as time goes by I use this analogy because it's what I think we're going to see in the future you got a guy who goes out and he buys himself a used airplane so let's say it is a Cirrus you know now he's not in the system when they pick him up at the factory they're in the system and there's some control over them and they're told to use Cirrus instructors insurance companies are going to require it so they're going to have to get somebody that knows what they're doing so then you get this guy with this used airplane and he gets a guy that gives him a big talk but really doesn't know what he's doing and he's teaching him in this thing and he's an instrument guy so if it's VFR it's not such a big deal and like with you know if Tina and I teach somebody I know they're taught to such a much higher level than the PTS that I can send them to any examiner I don't care how much they know or don't know I feel safe when they get their sign off because I know they're way past PTS standards but in this scenario you got a guy like that and then he goes to a DPE that maybe this is the first time he's ever done a glass cockpit checkout and nothing's stopping him from doing it and so he does it and he's an instrument rated guy doing an instrument checkout and so nobody ever taught this guy the right thing and nobody ever examined no whether he knew it and I think we're going to have more and more of this out there and so we're trying to get more DPEs that have glass cockpit experience and really know the systems of these airplanes well we see a lot of this go on we have a lot of these people show up at our doorstep and some of us been frightening we've had the clients show up the aircraft owners we've had the instructors show up who've been teaching in these used aircraft and have never had the proper instruction themselves and there's a lot of them out there and it's pretty scary yeah if you want to learn how to fly one of these planes really do your homework if you're a pilot and seek out the advice of other people that have done it and find somebody that really knows this equipment because you're just not you're wasting your money learning from somebody that doesn't know the equipment properly it's very important and there's just not that many people yet I think that are really highly skilled at it there's a few anything you want to add to that one there's our contact information again you can email either one of us down there and we're happy to take all the questions we can instructors that want to learn how to teach in these things we can offer a lot of tips on how to go about that and get you started in it but if anybody has any questions we'll be happy to happy to answer them we got a mic for this gentleman over here don't ask me anything I don't know it's a great briefing there's a lot of information that's not known a lot of factors that aren't appreciated as you mentioned one of the controlling factors really all the insurance companies what do they look for what are the requirements hours or or signups that they require before they'll let somebody take a glass cockpit airplane okay the uh... it depends on what airplane it is uh... the the simpler one seventy twos for example sometimes I mean I see anything I mean they can if they've never even flown it the insurance company doesn't ask anything yeah I've seen that too uh... and the more high uh... complex airplanes that are faster cirrus is in particular I know and I'm sure columbia the new the columbia four hundred now sesna is the same way any of those the insurance company is going to be more strict about it that the twenty twos they want you to have uh... a lot of times an instrument rating before they'll let you go sometimes i'll let you be private pilot with no passengers in a twenty two so I've even seen um... a gentleman who had I don't know eight hundred eight hundred twelve hundred hours in a in a bonanza that he used to own body used serious sr twenty two and his insurance company said that all he needed was ten hours in the aircraft that that was it no specifics on a serious instructor on anything just ten hours in in the making model he was good to go you think the f a a working with industry should come up with some sort of endorsement or last time rating or something along the lines of uh... the specific there's actually been a lot of discussion about that uh... is especially in regard to the instrument rating you know someone gets an instrument rating in a glass panel plane there they're still instrument rated they can go get in that one seventy two warrior and go go take it up by mc so there has been a lot of talk about that but those things are slow motion hard to regulate and scummy even if they decided to do it i think it'd be a slow process anybody else uh... do the manufacturers have uh... program set up to train the trainers and are they uh... sort of at the corporate level of sponsorship work in an individual sign up and pay on the dotted line do you want to talk to that one you can't the uh... i can talk more intelligently about the serious one because it's one involved in but uh... yet to be an official c-sip serious standardized instructor pilot you have to be taught by them uh... up until recently they were contracted by university north coated to do that and that was the only way you could be a independent serious instructor now us having a training center we can teach uh... iron structures to be serious instructors but they're only serious instructors as long as they remain under our watch and under our roof so uh... and i know that sessna has uh... a program for teaching glass cockpit to instructors i went aversion of that way back but i don't know about all manufacturers i don't think beach craft is now working something at least they are here in florida where if you're getting like the mananzo with the g one thousand they do have a program to get people through which is similar to this ten hours ten twelve hours in the aircraft so i know one of the pilots one of the instructors that's doing it but you can go sign on the dot a line and and take the training you might you might have to find an aircraft to do it in yeah that's that that can be a problem they they might not be able to provide you with an aircraft uh... to be a serious instructor that's one of the kind of problems you gotta you say i say problems i think it's a good thing actually gotta have time a lot of time in the plane before you can not a lot but a bit of time in the plane before you can even do the training the instructor program and then the instructor program takes a good bit of time and then like i say it's only a year's designation and then you gotta renew it uh... through either they change it every year online test going to uh... the annual convention or something but it's good it keeps us up to date i you get a lot of satisfaction at a finish in the training too uh... it's such a good program when you finish that transition training and especially as an instructor you know the aircraft inside out and backwards and you really have the confidence that you know you can get out there get in it the next day or or the next week and and teach somebody about it take it somewhere and it's very beneficial really good program well that's one thing i like to have for people hadn't done that transition training it's such a well a good course we get people that come to us to have no interest in flying that plane they have their own plane of another manufacturer but they've heard the quality of that course and how it teaches you to aeronautical decision-making and make good decisions and they'll take the course even though they're not gonna be rent the planes they're gonna go back to their own airplane and fly it it's kinda different another fellow there in the middle for a person with no flying experience goes out and buys a Cirrus uh... what flight times do you expect do you normally find before they solo get their private and an instrument that's that's a great question and what we have found is a student pilot starting in the Cirrus i usually break the rating down into thirds in the in the general typical aircraft that people learn in you solo in the first third uh... and then you continue learning about cross country so forth in the second third and then the third the last year of brushing up on maneuvers what we found that in the Cirrus you're not gonna solo until the last third of your training uh... because the aircraft is so it's just less tolerant for air especially learning to land it you really have to learn to land it properly which then translates to landing any aircraft properly uh... but by the time the individual solos in the Cirrus that person here she can literally get in there they're done with their training they can get in it and fly confidently just about anywhere in the u.s. and deal with just about any airspace any ATC