 Good afternoon sir. Thank you sir. How are you? I am good sir, how are you? Yes sir, we have a midterm break going on. Midterm break for how many months? For a week. For a week? We are completing our training also. It's going on. Training is for how many months? So it's for like 11 months. 11 months, then you have break. Then we will go for the district practical training. Which is your category? West Bengal sir. After this break will go? No, so I will go to West Bengal in December. Okay, now. I will go straight away to Hyderabad. So how many months training you are completing? Around 6. And you have Bharat Darshan also? Bharat Darshan is in the phase 2, so I am currently in the phase 1. Okay, phase 2 is how many months? It's around 2 months. So how is physical training there? Exhausting sir, it's difficult. Tough, no doubt. But you don't have this physical training in your career. This is there and that's all. That's why you find Otwele, persons, even IPS officer. But a lot of us are actually adopted in our daily habits. So many of us are still running in our midterm break. Because this is something which has become a routine. No, it's okay. Training time is okay. You are forced to. Till your second phase is there, you are forced to have that. Training afterwards. I hope to remain the same. I want to have it as a good takeover. What are the views that during career also like in military they have this endurance test? Should it be there in police office? I think it should not be made compulsory. Rather people should try to inculcate this in their habits. Try to, how many have been invulcating? These observations are being made even by the course also. You find Otwele, inspectors and others. And many of the IPS officers also. It doesn't happen in army. But they have mandatory endurance test after few years. They have to maintain their health, otherwise they are out. Right, so even in the paramilitary forces there is the endurance test. Even in police in some states there is an endurance test. But no one is permanently retired. But people are posted to positions which are non-field positions. Having said that, if I take the case of IPS per se, I will say that largely we will be occupying the decision-making positions. Which are going to be really hectic. So making a test mandatory for people would be too rigid. Decision-making positions is okay. But don't you think when agencies need, they have to go to the field also? Yes, no doubt sir. They have to walk also. Can it become very difficult for them? Sir, I think if I want to be a good administrator, if I want to be a good police person, I should be fit. This is something which should come- This is all by personal level. I am telling whether it should be mandatory or not. Unless it is mandatory. There is no guarantee. And especially in the cladders of North India, where they are in the habit of enjoying life and all, which is not there in South India. So it will be like that, which is there now. Sir, I feel, I am sorry sir, I am back to differ. I strongly feel that these things should not be imposed on some person. Rather the person should inculcate these things in themselves. Because if I want to be a good administrator, I have to be fit. So it means the officers having hot bellies, BGEs and all, they don't want to be good administrators. Probably they have different priorities. Many of them. In fact, my director is a DG rank officer. He runs every day. This is something that should come from within. No one could teach a DG rank officer. Okay, okay. Now police reforms are there as per that. And now selections of DGEs in the state and of police policies made by the officers. Do you think this type of system is required or it is against the spirit of federalism that Chief Minister doesn't tell me powers? Whereas this selection was previously being done at the state level and it was working there. And I don't think it is making much difference. Because then they have to send a panel of three officers. It must be also the same thing. Okay. So firstly UPSC is a constitutional body. It is like a federal commission. So it represents both the union as well as the state characteristics. So I won't completely agree that the powers have been taken from the state. Secondly, there is a panel of three. So the Chief Minister still have a prerogative on who to choose. Having said that, if you say that the judgment is not being implemented in its spirit I will say that policing is something that has to be said. I am not talking about the truth is not being implemented. Simply talk about this. Right sir. I didn't talk about other reforms. I am just mentioning only this. Because this is causing delay. Yes. Not a delay is being caused. You can state government can select a chief secretary. Why not a DGP? Sir, in this case I would like to cite what Supreme Court said. And it made a clear distinction between how the post of chief secretary is different from the post of DGP. DGP heads a police force. And a police force has to be necessarily separated from the direct control of the political executive. Because eventually it is a force. It commands violence and therefore it has to be impassionate at times. So a DGP should be someone who is politically neutral. Having said that, it is a political executive that should guidance, supervise it. But eventually it should have certain autonomy. So that condition is being put in after U.S.C. election? To some extent, sir. We have a number of cabinet committees. We have a powerful group of minister. What is the difference between them? So there are, cabinet committees are more permanent. So they are over a particular sector. Say a cabinet committee on security or a cabinet committee on infrastructure. Political affairs. Yes, political affairs. On the other hand, EGEOMs or Empowered Group of Ministers is basically for a certain subject. It is temporary. And it is for a more specific understanding and analysis of a particular issue. It might be a bill. It might be a specific reform that the government is targeting. So it is temporary. Once the task is done, it dissolves. What is the major difference? While the cabinet committees are permanent, the EGEOMs. These committees are the mandatory values. Whereas the cabinet committees are decision-making. Right. Decision-making. Okay. Roads of UPSC. One role will be discussed. Tell me other three, four roles. So one is of course the selection of, the recommendation of group A officers to be selected by the government of India. Then it has a role in disciplinary matters. In case any group A officer, some disciplinary action has to be taken. The advice of UPSC is taken. Then UPSC could also perform the recruitment functions for state governments. So wherever there is no state public service commission, UPSC could perform that function. That's it, sir. Anybody's biodiversity? Sir, biodiversity is the total accumulation of all the flora and fauna in a particular ecosystem. How much we have in India? Sir, you are... Are we reaching biodiversity? Yes, sir, we are a mega-diverse country, so... Approximately how many species of plants and animals in India? I am not sure, sir. I am not sure. Do we have good shampoo products? Yes, sir. How much? So the number is around 23%. I am not sure of the categorization person. You heard of one principle of equity and common but differentiated responsibilities and... Yes, sir. Where it is being applied? So this is being applied in the conference of parties of UN framework on climate change. So common but differentiated responsibilities mean that both the developing as well as the developed world have common responsibilities of preventing catastrophic climate change. But at the same time, the responsibilities are differentiated. Oh, okay. Please tell me. You are founding member of computer society, isn't it? No, sir. It should be founding member of the finance and economic society at college. I was an executive board member of the CSI. Prishan. Sir. Do you read newspapers? Yes, sir. Whenever I get time at the... I came up with an interesting concept today. It was basically saying that there is a difference between anthropocentric jurisprudence and biocentric jurisprudence. Can you think over this? The basic difference I see is the jurisprudence which is largely defined by natural causes versus what is defined by human interventions. So I am not very sure on that. Is our judiciary more in favor of anthropocentric factors? Does it also take into consideration the biocentric factors which surround us? It does, sir. Is there a bias towards anthropocentric law? To the contrary, I feel our judiciary has been really proactive and it has... India's jurisprudence is actually very proactive when it comes to biocentric jurisprudence. Can you give me some biocentric laws or... Sir, if I take one example, it would be the MC Mehta case where the Supreme Court banned the refineries near Taj Mahal. And so in that case, Supreme Court said that even though they are refineries like the Mathura refinery, they are causing pollution and they are harming the ecosystem around the Taj Mahal. So... You have got West Mughal Canada. That should be a difficult place to put its sufferers towards looking at what is happening in Mughal. It will be an interesting place for sure. I am not sure about being difficult. Is there a politicisation of politics and the worst? That's something which I'll say is happening across the country. It's something which will happen is always a fear. So... If you have to summarize the four major reforms that are required in politics in the country, what are they? The first one, of course, is the condition of the constabulary. In my interactions at various paramilitary forces as well as the state police forces, I've found that not just the constabulary suffers from the problem of low remunerative incomes, they also suffer from the problem of mental and physical health issues. The second one, of course, would be the reforms at the top level. That might be the selection of the post of DGPs or the district superintendent. There should be more autonomy. There should be a security of tenure. The third would be greater autonomy. By autonomy, I do not mean less accountability, rather greater autonomy for police chiefs to exercise power. There should be lesser political interference and more of political guidance. The fourth area would be in the criminal investigation. I think there's an urgent need to separate the law and order and investigation duties. We have at NPA a lot of simulations where we try to learn how a good investigation is done, how it is done in countries outside India. And I realize that in India, police people are so burdened with law and order duties and the forensic collection which are very important for high quality investigation are missing. You have been under training for 6 months. What is it that they don't teach you at the academy? What should they be teaching you? That's a difficult question if I say something. In fact, we have given a lot of feedbacks and the academy has been really accommodative. So we talked about having an election. The previous batch talked about having an election attachment. For this batch, they ensured that we have one. Having said that, I think because of COVID, we missed out on a lot. We could not get a lot of practical insights into how Athena works, how different functions, how police commissioner rates and police districts basically manage complex functions like traffic and other things. We used to have such attachments. We are not having them right now because of COVID. You have mentioned the classic fiction and contemporary Indian nonfiction. What do you read in contemporary Indian nonfiction? So a lot of stuff, things about India's history, things about... I think we have to say one book that you have written. So that's not a purely contemporary Indian nonfiction. I read Perilous Interventions by Shri Hadip Singh Puri. Can you tell us a little bit about the book? So it's basically about the role of UNSC and how it impacts countries in general. So there's in fact an element on India also, how UNSC is a very political body and many of the interventions it makes in countries including its standard in countries like Libya, Syria and even in Kashmir were highly political. So they were basically influenced by the opinions and whims of the P5 countries which is the permanent members and ignores the actual needs of the country. Is it time to dissolve UN? Does it have any contemporary elements? Sir, the book? UN, United Nations. No doubt it has. Do you think it is playing its role in that? Sir, to a good extent UN has played an important role. I agree that there's a need of reforms. The present day UN doesn't reflect the realities of our times. But this doesn't mean that UN doesn't have a role in peacekeeping or the UN forces in very turbulent areas of the world. The UN agencies which are doing really good work. So I think if there is any need, there's a need to make UN more proactive, more robust and more reformed. What is your take on encounters? Sir, by encounters I understand that you are referring to extrajudicial killings. So I think any kind of killing is not justified, especially if it is done by the police force. So there is only one provision in the Indian Penal Code which allows such an action, but that is an exception to the rule. So I do not, I think all the convicts, all the accused have to go through the trial. So there is no point of an encounter. How, when it comes to police reforms, why governments are always half-hearted in implementing the reforms? What do you think the probable reason? Sir, the reason which I feel is of course that governments exercise a lot of power through police and they do not want to give away that power. And so there is a vested interest involved and therefore police reforms are slow. That doesn't mean that they are not happening. So what is the security arrangements in coastal areas and what is the role of police? Sir, by coastal areas do you mean the coastal policing or the regions person? There is a recommendation by Cargill committee. How coastal areas should be strengthened and clearly demarcating the role between different forces, right? Can you elaborate on that? So I am not exactly sure of the facts. I do understand that there is a jurisdiction of state police to some extent in Indian Coast Guard and a lot of reforms have been made in coastal policing after the 2008 Bombay attacks. I am not sure of the exact facts. Do you know something about NADGrid? What is NADGrid? So NADGrid is like a master database that collects inputs from all the intelligence agencies. It collates them and it uses a lot of big tech like big data analysis and provides the same feed to 10 intelligence agencies in India. What is the due process and process laid down without? Sir, this differentiation was made by the Supreme Court in the Main Ka Gandhi judgment. A procedure established by law or a process laid down by the law is basically that there could be certain restrictions which could be placed as per the law. It is laid down by Supreme Court in Main Ka Gandhi's case or it is in the constitution itself? The word due process, sir? No, the procedure. It is in the constitution Article 21. The differentiation between the due process and procedures established has been made in the Main Ka Gandhi. Due process would basically mean abiding by the principles of natural justice. What are the? So there are two basic principles. One should not be condemned unheard and no one should be a judge in their own cause. Enough of police, I think. Let us go to some international relations. I am going to NP anyway, so there will be a lot of police there. I know, but you will be grilled on policing mode. That is why everyone of us are trying. What is your take on India's position on RCEP? So in 2019, India decided to leave the negotiations for RCEP. So as the things stand right now, the 15 members, the 15 countries are going ahead with it and India is out of RCEP. So if you are asking about my take on it, I think trade deals are something which is desirable. But we should not enter into trade deals only because we have to enter into them. We have to enter into a club of nations which are trading with each other. It has to be in our terms. The questions are minuses of the RCEP. So RCEP as it stands right now is going to benefit countries which have a strong manufacturing ecosystem. So of course there will be tariff relaxations, there will be greater trade facilitation between those countries. India's stand has been that it should include share for services and it should include items where India has a good export basket. Over the years, in recent 6 or 7 years, there is widespread feeling that India is not able to maintain its relationship, good relationship even with its neighbors. Do you agree with this statement? Sir, I feel that India has made the best efforts to have good relations with its neighbors. But as the basic rule of international relations go, that you cannot have permanent friendships and you cannot have permanently good relations with all the countries. Even those smaller neighbors have their own national interests and therefore they keep on changing. But India has always made the efforts. Hi Nishant. Hi sir. So I heard about peacekeeping missions. Yes sir. So where does India played a key role in peacekeeping? So there were of course many theaters. One that I fondly remember is Cyprus, where in fact India lost the retired general. Apart from that there was Kosovo, there was Sri Lanka also. So there were many theaters. And there are many countries in Africa where India, Indian forces were a part of peacekeeping missions. Why do you mean to say that those countries who are responsible for peacekeeping? And we have been called for peacekeeping. Internal security in the concerned countries threatened. Is it so? Sir I think the very idea of peacekeeping is that the force that is deployed should be neutral. Many of those countries were fighting civil wars, where both the parties had legitimate claims on the government, claims on the power. And therefore in order to ensure peace at first and in order to ensure that women and children and all the vulnerable sections of those societies are protected, there was a requirement of a neutral and efficient police force. And that is the reason why UN has been deploying those UN peacekeeping missions. Okay. So there are still internal security problems in India, like nexalism. When we cannot able to control our own problems, who do we get into peacekeeping missions like other countries? Sir there are two reasons. Firstly to the first statement on not being able to control, I was recently attached to the CRPF and we went to Jharkhand and saw the nexal issue. I think our forces are doing really good when it comes to solving the nexal problem. We went to a lot of areas which used to be liberated zones and India has done a very good work all thanks to our security forces because of which development is reaching now. And when I say that the role of security forces is this important, it is important to train them and we have to train them in different theatres. So if they go in civil war regions where the problems are actually complex, they are going to learn a lot from them. So I think it is a very good training experience for those forces, an experience which they might not always get in India. So of course one because of training, second that is because of India's commitment to being a responsible international player which is always committed to ensure international peace. What is your opinion on community policing? Have India suffered into community policing so far? Sir there are some states which have done fine when it comes to community policing. Kerala has in fact implemented a model of community policing. Then there is in Maharashtra, Mahalla committees were experimented. A very good concept in my opinion and it has actually led to a good number of cases being resolved at the community level only. My last question, what is a new development bank and what is it created? So a new development bank is a product of BRICS and it is basically created to assist the developing world in various infrastructural and developmental projects. The larger reason why it might have been created is to create a developmental bank ecosystem apart from the existing institutions which are largely west dominated. Say the boy bank in the IMF. Okay, good.