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But he was just like a mixture of emotions, you know, he was obviously a little bit frightening but you know the excitement and the adrenaline and he was just like, he was just a chaos and I think that's sort of like the way my life was going chaos and I was just attracted to it I was attracted to it, to giving us as well, of all I've had, you know Everybody's got scared in their closets, everybody's got things that we're ashamed of and embarrassed of but that's fucking life, like, we live, we learn, we grow, I believe I was talking to worlds, you know, I was actually visualising just sat there for days thinking people was coming and going and I was talking away to myself I was like, suppose if anyone were to see me then, fucking trade jacket I remember Birmingham brought fucking hundreds and hundreds once I think it was their anniversary, something, this one was like yesterday, I think it was about 2007 and it was about 50 of us out and we just fucking looked at them all and just went it was about fucking 700 of them and I just thought, wow, that's a film It was an FA Cup game, we'd just been knocked out of the FA Cup but I was just about to get knocked out of the FA Cup and then I decided to jump on the picture with a boiler-shoot on I tried to get the match abandoned What happened? I just got chased all over the picture With a boiler-shoot on? With a boiler-shoot on, I ended up, I got chased into the opposite end into all the Blackburn fans and got a little bit of a kick in their head off of them I looked up there, it was you, man, bastard and fucking bottles of fucking cocoa and all sort of threw up my hands were getting dragged out by a copper, so that was very my real life I was at my wit's end, the suicidal force was coming in and I had to fucking sort of like dig deep and think, you know, it's heavy, you sink or swim now, you know but I knew I had to put the bed in the dug down, I had to stop it How would you feel if you took your daughter to a match and just erupted with violence between fans and your daughter was in the middle, how would you feel genuinely? Yeah, I'd be fucking fuming, you know what I'm saying I'd be like, frightening, you know, obviously, you know what I'd say to your kids You know what I mean, same Boomer on, it's the day's guess, we've got Anthony Fivian Fivian, Fivian, yeah, it's a man's second name, bro, right, modern name, yeah So a bit of a reputation, Manchester football hooligan, Man City kind of wobbled in life, drank drugs, violence turned it around, now you're kind of a turn pro boxer It's a good thing to see, bro Yeah, a bit mad, yeah, a little bit crazy, a bit of a crazy journey So it makes you, innit? Well, yeah, that's it, definitely, yeah First of all, how are you, brother? Yeah, I'm good, thank you, mate, yeah, good, thanks How's life just now? Yeah, it's good, mate, yeah, it's good, you know Just like Christmas, we live in family and what have you So yeah, it's all good, all good times Well, yeah, it's quite busy, but good Always go back to the start for my guests Yeah, where you grew up, how it all began Well, yeah, well, a few miles north of here I was platted in Manchester, born in 83 So it was sort of a bit of a depression at the time You know, really run down the area Sort of like before Manchester started to get done You know, before the bombing and what have you Born with my mum and dad But they split up when I was a young age So then I ended up living with my nan, my grandad Who then took me on full time So they brought me up in Mars Platinum, yeah Bit of a mad road, Mars Platinum Plenty of characters on there, bit of a rough estate So yeah, sort of like Just grew up there, he was a big redhead He was a big man United area Which is a bit mad, because for some reason I started to follow man's setter So I went right against the grain sort of thing I don't know, he was always Probably something a little bit different about me I think one of the things I remember watching a game Watching City when I was really young age And that sort of turned me But I remember when I was about seven years old My uncle who was sort of like, you know, married into the family He took me to Main Road, the old city ground And I just remember going in there with the old keypacks And the experience And you just never forget, you know The noise, the roar And just sort of like the togetherness And bang those hooks from that moment on How was it being leaving your mum and dad? Did they have their own battles? Yeah, definitely My mum, basically from what I know My mum had had an accident And she was unable to look after me And then sort of like, she started to turn So they drank a little bit And she was alcoholic They both moved on and had, you know I've got brothers and sisters on both my mum and dad's side And they both sort of like moved on But he always kept in touch with me Dad's still alive, still In contact with dad, got in relationship with me I did with my mum, but unfortunately My mum passed away at an early age Yeah, so that sort of affected me in a bit of a way But yeah, so I mean That sort of like turned me to the drink as well Did that affect you? Yeah, definitely Did you start drinking? What is the due start drinking? Probably started around about 13, 14 Just as most of the kids did in the estate Just going to the park, you know A few mates from school and what have you done on Friday And that's how it started As you got a bit older, 14, 15 Went on to the next day as I was getting into the football You know, going to the football It's all around the day in the pub, you know So around about 15, you know Had no problem getting served So I was walking into the pubs near the city's old ground Getting served, you know So I was on the aisle 15, 16 15, 16, yeah Where did you start getting into the eating culture? I was probably on the fringes Around about 16, 17 Sort of like, I remember I was talking that long back It was a game against Leeds I think it was about 99 I was still at school at the time And it was just chaos outside You know, charging battles And you know, Brits getting slung into coaches And a member of Van getting turned over And I was about 15, 16 at the time, yeah I know it was only on the fringes But it was like the first bit of the taste Of the football scene, nearly Were you ever fighting beforehand? Yeah, I was always You know, from growing up From being a kid I was always fighting in little bits of trouble In school or at home in the estate There's always Always getting into a little bit of myver That's true What was it like being in your first scrap In the football games? It's sort of like It came on a little bit slow Sort of like on the fringes Being a bit younger I was just on the fringes for a long time But It was just like a mixture of emotions You know, it was obviously a little bit A little bit frightening But you know, the excitement and the adrenaline And it was just like It was just chaos And I think That's sort of like the way my life was going Chaos and I was just attracted to it I was attracted to giving us as well Of all I had, you know It felt normal, plus you felt as if you had a family Yeah, it felt like Sort of like growing up With my grandparents And not with My dad It was just a little bit confusion Growing up Not knowing where you belong For the first time I probably felt like I belonged somewhere And probably felt a bit attached So yeah, that was That's pretty much where it came from Who was taught boy in Manchester at that time? Probably when I was going Well I don't know who the top bar was at the time It wasn't long after The governors had just been smashed and what have you You know, these people like Rodney Rowden Who's got the book out on the governors People like Cooper, Trav You know People like Pat Better They were all sort of like I think they just At the end of their banning orders and just coming back What was that like Nene? Going to the games? It was such a buzz To go, I mean at the time City was crap, city was shit Did that make things worse? You know From going now to going back then I found it a real buzz It was like Real devotion to the club It was probably the worst time in the club's history When I started coming through But it was such a buzz We were going to mad places We were going to Walsall and Grimsby Mackersfield I remember getting beat off Stopport County It was mad But Just to be there And feel that sort of buzz and emotion It was unbelievable Does it become such a buzz that you just look forward to a game? Never mind the result But just to fight? It consumed My life's real For like 15 years They sort of thought about all week You know You see big games coming up in the fixer listing You know, planning for that It just consumes your life How many are on that phone? How many was on the mind? City's firm On a good day I've seen up to 300 of us Down at Westam It could be only 30 of us It just depends on the day What was it like when you played Man City? Because obviously the whole firm in Glasgow Fucking ruthless, Celtic Rangers The nature is pure But what's it like With the Manchester derby? Pure hatred Definitely pure hatred I know a lot of United fans have always said Liverpool's our main game But I think the Manchester lads Definitely a lot of hatred Especially from the blue half And it sort of Gets built up from the week before You know what I mean Even when they're not playing each other There's always times You're beating for each other in town Or you're bumping into each other And it'll go off Even if there's no football on If you're out, you're out, you're out Then you bump into each other They could go off again any time How was it though? They were winning everything Does that play a major Factor as well And it's such a schoolboy stuff The kind of point scoring Does that make you more angry towards Them? I suppose you'd say the Carlos The better blues don't they It was hard Especially when I grew up in North Manchester That's the red area of Manchester So it was hard Knowing that city The footballer They just won the treble in 1999 It was tough, yeah Yeah, it must be It was tough, yeah I myself took one And all Rangers went everything It's school and it's constantly Point scoring and it's constantly People pushing your buttons So everything goes full circle So things start turning And it's kind of payback But obviously with the fighting You got absorbed by it That you didn't even see anything else That just wanted to fight Was that a passion of the game To set up fights and then go and have a tear up I mean, firstly I think growing up The first thing was I was a football fan and I was a city fan But yeah I suppose as I got older And I got more involved It did sort of like just become That's what I wanted The violence and the chaos And meeting the lads and the organising And everything Just some It was at the forefront of my mind All week leading up to a game And it did consume a lot of my time Opening a lot of my thoughts, yeah What about when Liverpool came There was a much hatred towards them As much as you I mean Even with Liverpool I never There's a Manchester Scouts thing Which goes back years ago It's back from the old Ship canal and that was The jobs over the dock And it just stems back from them So yeah, there's a Manchester Liverpool rivalry anyway No matter who's playing now I suppose the big one has always been United and Liverpool But even in Old City to play everything It's always a possibility to come pop off Yeah, you always watch Cardigan there Always at football Who's the toughest fan you've come up against? I don't know really There's a lot on the day I know Birmingham always The day when we brought We brought a good fan to City Leeds have We've had a lot of run-ins with United A lot of the South Yorkshire team Sheffield United The bands The tough lads on the day And obviously the London A lot as well We've been up there And obviously Millwall But on the day I suppose the worst kicking I've had Was off United But I've had that many battles with him I've lost count They'll be laughing at you Yeah I've had a few boys on who used to fight In the football scene and this is Those brothers fucking nutcases Yeah, remember Mirrors were coming down in the 90s And even coming At the old main low ground But they was like Never had big numbers But if they brought up fifth there It was a top fifth there Did you ever come across Millwall? Millwall, I was a bit young For my play them But I remember the game When they come up with Chelsea in fact It was on the McIntyre programme But yeah, it was there like the game There wasn't really much The police Was in every police presence that day There wasn't really much You couldn't really get at each other But you know, he went off in the ground He went off down the curry mile afterwards But yeah, it was there that day I was about 15 that time What's the one thing that stands out In your mind when you had a terror What's the one thing you said I really enjoyed that Or that was close to the effort Yeah, I mean I've been in a few baddings Again with United That was bad, I got hit with an hammer in the mouth Split me, sweep my lips And not tell me to Right through my gum I got a right kick One of our lads Ended up in a coma It was that bad I remember the police sealed the area For 24 hours forensics That's probably the worst one But yeah, we've had loads of Maddings where it's just gone Remember being at Sheffield United One time He was mad that we'd just all come out of the ground And he'd just went completely erupted outside the ground And we ended up back in the stadium Over the seats and whatever It was just that many A cat, you know, a cat in my head Does that ever make you question What is it I'm thinking for Definitely these days I think, you know, I've been really lucky I mean, I've not been to prison Luckily, I've not been seriously hurt Where it's sort of like affected me My life So definitely, you know, it's Definitely questioned Myself now, you know It's, you know But young and dumb, isn't it? You just Like you say, coming from the broken home And what if you're part of a family And the violence is an adrenaline rush in itself Never mind having a brotherhood That people have got your back No matter if you're outnumbered or not Nowadays is second to none Nobody's really got your back anymore It's changed days from the way it was In the 90s, when I speak to people That's what they kind of say There was a lot more trust Nowadays, it's kind of everything's upside down Yeah, definitely, yeah Like I say, I mean, I still see a couple of lads And what have you now I don't think it's, you know I mean, I say, you know They're still lads that are active now You know, it's Just whilst I haven't talked to them the other day He was going after that I don't think it's ever going to go away Then we're going to go away There's always going to be lads coming through That's just, it's tribalism as well People just want to feel like part of a unit A party, something that they're willing to do Whatever it takes and listen If people want to have a scrap, have a scrap As long as families and shit don't really get involved And other people get hurt because obviously You get kids now going to the game And that's the thing that women, children And if you don't want people caught up In the crossfire, especially people coming off Tube stations and all that shit Riots because innocent people Can potentially get hurt How was that arranged back then? Mobile phone really Mobile phone You know We sort of You used to go and speak to them You used to speak to a lot of lads Especially to his local Some would always have a number You'd ring up, you'd tell people to make the way up to where Or we'd get a phone call and say That's for such a place But getting off the train somewhere And then you'd just bump into that And that was it, you know We ever set up? I don't think we ever set up We've probably Probably been told to come somewhere We've sort of taken them out Numbers or whatever and we've totally outnumbered And we've got no chance or what have you But that's part of That's a bit of a suppose isn't it? Just all bragging rights for who gets wins And who chases each other How does it function if you win? So see if you chase a fun Is that a use of win or Is there any other just company right? Okay it's just a fair result Everybody just kind of walks away What's the final whistle kind of thing When it comes to the end of the fight I suppose everyone news is Going to have a different say on it You know Sometimes it could be 6 or 1 half Sometimes you could have a right result They've got them on their toes It's just one of them I suppose How's that feeling though Getting put on your toes? Yeah it's not good It's not good at all you know what I mean Sort of like As a man you know You've been beaten I suppose So it's never a good feeling So when did the drink the drug Start to take its toll on you? Well I started drinking Like I said I ran about 15 From 15 And it was getting heavier and heavier Obviously with the football it was turning to 2 days By the time I was 16 I was drinking Friday And I sat there And then As I got into my teens It was like Friday sat this under Then the sort of like the drugs The drugs was on the scene then at the football The cocaine it was Everywhere And it sort of It was coming in so it was like a Friday night Then I sat there night again And I suppose as I got into my early 20s I suppose deep down I realised that you know I probably had a little bit of a problem You know You start doing it by yourself And then when I was 24 That's when my mum passed away With the drink But instead of Learning mistakes I sort of went the other way And it just ended up in a bit of a spiral You know it was Like in the week Cocaine in the morning And it Ended up Ended up in a bit of a bad way with it You know the relationship broke down Lost my job Ended up back at my nana's house And it was sort of like My first My first downward spiral Really It was just complete chaos You know just sort of like Felt like I was losing everything around me Losing the plot Did you see a lot of yourself and your mum? Yeah definitely I mean nana used to say that to me all the time You know you just remind me so much of your mum You know what I mean she was a bit of a ratic And What have you Yeah and probably had a lot of the traits Yeah I mean a lot of our families You know the old stuff with some sort of addiction So maybe a bit of A bit of so much in the genes as well Yeah it's sad My family was the same there was a mixture of everything I kind of got everything I kind of took Bits of everything like But it's a weird thing addiction like nobody If you've never really battled I think everybody's got an addiction to some degree But if you've never really battled with it To an extent where people who take coke And if I see people fill a coke now I think what are you fucking doing like But if somebody told me that I would have told them to fuck off So it's difficult There comes a realisation in your life when you go Something needs to change A lot of people don't get that A lot of people might get it but it's just so hard To change like Losing your mum and losing your job And losing your partner and Yeah we can sit in a room and sniff our brains out And we're willing to lose everything Because a powder It makes us feel good for six hours And it's a constant chase To your madness How we accept that How I accepted it and all for so long And why you Now I question it like how many years I wasted through the madness But then again I look at the other hand as well Like I've learnt a lot I've learnt a lot I became a better individual Everybody's got skin on their clothes Everybody's got things that were ashamed of And embarrassed of but that's fucking life We live, we learn We grow I believe But when you were going down that slope Did you have any breakdowns or suicidal thoughts? Yeah I mean That was sort of like my first rock bottom Really with my mum And then there was times Sort of after that as well It was just a constant battle I was on and I was off and enough And it was sort of like I used to call myself a secret gold kid Because I'd keep it on the quiet And I thought nobody knew It was obvious that everybody around me Sort of knew that there was a problem And I'd sit there in pain Every time I'd sit there in pain Thinking what am I doing I need to stop I can't But I just couldn't My second sort of My second sort of rock bottom My second relationship Was coming to an end It ended up turning toxic At the same time One of them had just been diagnosed that she had cancer She hadn't got long So she was struggling again You know when we went to the house We all had families there and we watched her pass away In the bed And that sort of turned me in again You know it was like Just the fact that was it I was really on my own then With you know A few weeks later My relationship again It broke down and it ended up Ending in my nana's house My auntie was there We shouldn't have been there We were squatting basically And I just completely lost my idea Just drinking myself to oblivion Go came For days and days on end To the point where I was hallucinating I was Talking to worlds I was actually visualising Just sat there for days thinking people Was coming and going and talking away to myself I suppose if anyone would have seen me then You can trade jacket Psychotic shit And that's the point it got me to Did people know or they told you How bad you were I just couldn't move out the house My head was completely gone I was stuck in this house for weeks I got out of that psychotic mode And somehow Managed to keep a job down I don't know how because I was in some states At the time But yeah I was actually sleeping in the bed Where my nana passed away I cried myself to sleep Most of the time Even went to sleep I just remember being in real bad pain I want to be able to have my kids There at the house I was losing that bond with my kids I ended up getting to the point where I thought I'm going to get out of this And that's when the suicidal thoughts come in It was the only way I thought I just couldn't live with the pain that I was in It was just torture But on the other hand I couldn't stop Within a few hours I was straight back on it It was a constant battle with it And at the time I just thought If I can't stop this now I'm going to have to end it So I used to glorify drug dealers People still do You watch the films and you think I want that life But if somebody's in a house Losing their mind People are still willing to feed you gear They don't give a fuck They don't care if you're lying beside your gran And your mum They don't genuinely care But yeah We fought up as normal I did I never gave a fuck About anybody And then once you start getting older You start realising how deranged it is People who take it And the people who say it How deranged it actually is To destroy lives, to benefit your own To people sitting in gaffes Losing their families, losing their loved ones Just feeling pure shame And guilt And it's a life of fucking misery It's so painful It's fucking pain anyway So why not try and enjoy it by doing good things I believe I can say that now Because I'm in a good place But I do think about the past a lot And I think fuck me How fucking to tune to the moon I was It's unbelievable Did you stop going to the football When you were on it I've probably stopped a while Before that really Why did you give up on that I was just in all states I stopped mixing with people And sort of become very secluded to myself Sort of lost myself really Very within myself I used to have a part-time job Doing the doors as well All around Manchester and what have you That come to an end A lot of things really At the time I was doing Started a bit of unlicensed boxing as well Doing unlicensed boxing Just to say it was in No states even getting the gym Because you bloomed up when you were 19, 20 Yeah well it was just before And I ended up blowing up right up to 19 stone Really out of shape I was a big lad From my late teens Up until around about the age of 30 Sort of completely lost Went out of shape Just a lifestyle Bloomed up to 19 stone What was it like working on the doors from Manchester Crazy Especially some of the early days Did you enjoy that though because of the feint and background Yeah it was It was enjoyable I've got some of my memories I like it and other times Come a bit unstuck Sort of like drag means Sort of like making Underworld As well where I was probably a bit out of my depth to be honest Yeah Definitely had some frightening moments You know Lucky to sort of like be alive Some of the incidents on the doors Some characters out there In Manchester didn't they They just come down with a fucking banger man And just put one in your head Same as Glasgow, Liverpool In fact every fucking city Everybody's got a trigger man You don't know who the fuck you're dealing with Because you don't know everybody in your city It's always a little fucking asshole So you wouldn't expect it And then they're back with a fucking shotgun Yeah exactly that My old man was a bouncer In Glasgow and Victoria's And they were heavy handed back And the bouncer was just to give out Proper fucking beatings My dad was quite respected in that way But obviously when people He knew everybody in Glasgow But people used to come down They didn't fuck about There was no much cameras in that People used to just come down with shooters And they didn't realise My dad obviously knew bouncers and stuff They think what the fuck you're doing Do you know who that is And before you know it The team handed down What those did you work on? Worked on a few Manchester's What was that like? It just depended on different nights And what have you And we had the rat pack on all It was a bit crazy I went a bit wild there one night And remember A lot of lads turned up Funny enough I actually knew him So it was alright But he wanted to kill one of the other bouncer Turned up He was going in Motorbikes flying past Cars turned up with A lot of lads jumped out with batteries on I knew who he was It was sort of like Charlie B The middle man But there was no stopping Were you taking graft Were you snorting gear while you were working? Yeah, plenty of times I've been off my fucking hands It was mad But it feels normal then You could get away with it It was normal Everyone was at it So you had to take a bit of gear It was for those lads Do you think that's one of the reasons You had the job because you could You would get offered gear all the time Yeah You'd keep it sweet It was probably one of the reasons I was out While I was earning money I suppose I was having a quick drink at the bar And a bit of gear and what have you How was it on the doors Fainting for Manchester City If any of the reds came by Funny enough I never had a running with any of them While I was on the door You should come to the doors You should let them in But I never had no reds Was that always a concern In your mind that if I'm turned up Because they knew where you worked Or was it kind of off the radar Once the fights were done in the football matches Then obviously you said if you've seen each other People still used to fucking go for it But was there really anything like Don't go to anybody's workplace Or never go to their house There's a lot of rules People say don't come to your door But they do At number one point It got that badly united And it got a bit personal And there was talks about people going to people's Gaps and what have you It started getting a bit silly You know what I mean So I think that ended up getting Started out But yeah it's always a worry It can go too far And bars are the bars You know They don't want to fucking stop What's the biggest firm you've come up against When you were outnumbered I remember Birmingham brought Fucking hundreds and hundreds once I think it was their anniversary The swim was at Yeti that day I think it was about 2007 And there was about 50 of us out And we just fucking looked at a mile and just went There was about fucking 700 of them And I just thought wow that's a firm That's a fucking firm I've had big bars barring to know And he's a fucking nutcase Like he's a world champion kickbox I've seen him Whether you've got a firm of 200 And he's standing there himself just a little bit Skeptically fucking charging him Because I would imagine that Every guy I've had on Who's been involved in a football I've seen that Everyone's been fucking sound I must admit they've all been sound Every single one from Tottenham I've seen Everton had big Andy Nichols And it's just diamonds man Just nice You wouldn't even think it It gets a hard ride as well People are why you find it football But you've got to understand the back story All these people the majority of them Will come from broken homes Yes you've got choices to make But when you're getting a firm Everybody's involved in gangs From the streets anyway People in the fighting scene as well They all struggle They're all kind of fucking mad Bastards mentally But they're all sound as fuck Every single one have been all diamonds And I'm still friends with every single one Just all brand new Obviously there's some words exchanged With them still But I don't take fuck what we do with that I'm just there to learn their stories But you tend to see that they're all 100% Every single one all fucking brilliant People always say I mean people do look down On football They think what you're doing There's jobs But yeah like you said There's some of the most Respectable men out there Do anything for you Do anything to help anybody It's just that They have that inkling to go towards Football violence Did you ever team up with other people No I've never I've been to watch England But never really been on England scene I noticed I remember a few times in the early 2000s When they played that old Trafford And he was just going Off everywhere at different firms Just everywhere over Manchester Derby and Baltimore fighting Next thing is we're having it with Stoke And then it was just fucking chaos everywhere Just all firms fighting with each other Against each other Because you always see World Cup heroes England fans are always causing it Why do you think that is that because it's so Rife here with it Just take it abroad Every news channel you know yourself And England is fighting those fucking chairs and tables They do cause it It's definitely It's exactly all these The old English disease I know it's spread far and wide now over Europe But even there To still muddle yourself on the English I suppose Do you look at elements They do muddle yourself on sort of like The H's in the night is British You looking It's a bit mad, yeah Did you ever go abroad? No, I've never been abroad to watch England No While I've been in Europe I've only just got off my banner Just not long ago So I think In about 18 years span I was banned for like 10 years We have a little gap in between Just getting lifted and banned What was the first banner you got? The first one was not far It was that bulletin That was sort of a bit of disorder there In Europe just getting a free banner For a little minuscuffle And then thinking We're getting done for police assault And something else as well What was the one you invaded the picture With the boiler suit on? That was Blackburn I think that was about 2007 as well It was an FA Cup game We'd just been knocked out of the FA Cup Just about to get knocked out of the FA Cup So Divad decided to jump on the picture With a boiler suit on Tried to get the match abandoned What happened? I just got chased all over the picture With the boiler suit on With a boiler suit on I got chased into the opposite end Into all the Blackburn fans And got a little bit of a kick in the air I got there with you man Bastard and fucking bottles of cocaine And got dragged out by a copper So that was save me really Funny enough I didn't even get a banner I didn't get a banner I just got a bit of an heavy fine Is it a heart breaking thing Getting a banner or not able to support your team Or is it a relief to think Fuck me I'm taking a break from that At the time At the time A lot of time The rhythm You've got to go on your passport Every time there's a match abroad You've got to sign on So it's just a real inconvenience for you That's fucking mad though on it When you think about it How do you feel when you talk about it Running on with boiler suits Were you mad with it then? Yeah I was just mad with it It was my life at the time I thought it was gross Young dickhead I thought it was great Obviously you look back now You think it's a bit cringy But like you say It's who you are You look at those films abroad The Italians The Polish The Dutch Yeah definitely I'm in contact with quite a few Docs from Feyenoord And we go over there as well But they're all fucking massive as well They like Vikings They're all seven foot and fucking swatty stone You're thinking fucking hell Yeah and you think wow See even because Manchester City is So fucking it's went international now It's kind of a global team They're one of the most richest clubs in the world Do you find that a lot more people then Want to get involved? It's definitely changed now When I go to city now It was years ago When I was going The fan base has changed We used to slag United for it For being the Tories club But this is what happens The money comes in, the Tories come in And people jump on the bandwagon So city sort of Going that way now as well How do you see that? Because I had Bill Gardner on Top Boy from West Ham And he was heartbroken that they changed their stadium And things like that happened They just wanted to spoil their club Like they just wanted London born and bred But to grow as a club and to grow as a business Do you understand that side of it? Yeah, definitely I mean I loved Main Road I loved the atmosphere there It was great You was close to the pitch It was a proper old ground But like you said You've got to move with the times I suppose And if you look back If City would have stayed there We wouldn't have been where we are We wouldn't have been in Champions League finals And winning Premier League Might have still been in the Championship or something like that How was it when Oasis were coming through the ranks Of the World Masters of City fans? Does that give you a boost? Yeah, it was great Because they're fucking World Wave, man Yeah, it was great I remember Oasis was at the best United between everything The city was shit And you should have put up daft arguments You could be a fucking Reddy You've got me cut and we've got Liam Gallagher Just daft shitty arguments Fucking so childish Yeah, really childish, mate How did you get out your misery then When you're at your darkest And you're on a coke every day What was the turning point for you? I remember lying there A few nights And realising I was at me with his hand The suicidal force was coming in And I had to dig deep And think he's having his sink or swim now I knew I had to put the beard and the drugs down I had to stop it I had to get out As I was fan somewhere to live And I remember I was working for a Sikh family At the time And I just managed to say Listen, there's an house here to rent We can put you in it And it was like fucking hell And I remember saying right I was getting in the house And I dragged myself to a CA meeting And I went to the CA meeting And listened to people talk And I just sort of like I thought fucking hell was reminiscent of everything Just sort of connected with what people were saying And I thought fucking hell But I seen people who was cleaning And got out of the shit that I was in So I stuck with it And done the 12 step program And I remember I remember thinking we got the keys to the house And I had no furniture at all I had a bed there I had a telly And some pots and pans and plates And I just thought you know what Fuck it, just go with that now Just go with what you've got I feel under the influence at the time when I got in there And I remember just thinking Just get your fucking head down And I woke up the next day And it was like It was like something had come over me I thought this is it now This is where I'm turning the corner now And over the next few weeks And months I carried on with my meetings I carried on staying clean When I said keep me house out a little bit here and there The kids were staying I was building a miles better place You know when I thought I thought I was gonna get a fit I was getting up running in the morning Going back to my boxing gym And Started fighting again on licensed And I just built on and built on from there How many kids you've got? I've got three kids Ain't that the hard part though? Cos I used to sit in gas and I had kids And I never gave a fuck I never cared Inside you do care But you clearly don't as well If you're doing the things that you do While you've got your blood there Dependent on you And that's the fucking heartbreaking thing Missing those years I kid actually started giving me shit yesterday For some reason Cos I'd went with his cousin or something He was obviously on it And in five minutes into it He ends up asking for help People are just Madness differently And I end up giving the kids some advice And hopefully it takes it But the first step is admitting you've got a problem Because that one week turns into five years Ten years Before you know it You think how the fuck did I get in the last hole When the dark clouds are just so dark That you can't see any silver lining You can't see any sort of light to get out And to make that first jump is the scary part Like I've done A meetings, C meetings Eight fucking NA meetings, GA meetings I was never an alcoholic But there was probably stages in my life I probably did drink every day With the boys up the park And you don't think it's a problem Because I always kind of kept sharp And once you start listening to other people's stories You realise how identical Everyone is How much a match that everybody in that room is No matter what way you're looking Because I used to look at people on smack I think I'm not that bad That was my kind of Past that I'm not quite there yet I can still get a bird but I'm okay But when you actually sit and listen To people's stories, no matter their appearance No matter how much money there has Or how much you've lost We're all the fucking same How was that for you to take that first step For being a bit of a boy And having a reputation to then have them Fuck all losing the kids Relationships breaking down left right centre For then you make that decision to say I need to go and get help When you rock bottom You just know where to turn I didn't have my nana there Who'd always bailed me out and shit And I remember listening to someone Talking and saying addiction It's a very selfish disease Because like you just said Even though you do care inside You're just acting out You don't give a shit about people around you And deep down you do care But it's just that mentality What you have at the time You're not thinking about hurting people You're just thinking about Just thinking about getting on it Thinking about sort of Taking yourself out of you I suppose, getting out yourself And that's where the problem was But yeah For me to go to meetings It was like you say it was a bit hard at first Because I didn't think it was Sort of like, like you say you never thought I was an alcoholic or an addict Because it wasn't always every day I'd have sort of like Patches of sobriety and what have you And this is what I said when I went to a meeting And someone said to me, he said If you want to stop But you can't That's where the problem is If you want to stop but you can't You're an addict And I thought, well yeah You've got no power over it And that's where it is It's fucking scary man I still get chills But I still think about Of the last few, my podcast Had been quite deep about addiction But I still think about getting on it I still think about Christmas It's tough, it's a fucking tough time Like I don't know why When we were out for Christmas day, family time I was looking around, I'm thinking They all look as if they're having fun At the start of the night And then it's two or three hours passes You can see the change in people They're louder and they're dafter Everything just becomes a mess Their times round the head Their Christmas hats are on Over the trousers and you're thinking Fuck me, it changes people dramatically I woke up in boxing They're feeling good, went for a run And done a bit of shopping for the sales It's just that few hours Which is the scary thing because we feel as if I'm missing something That six hours of feeling good on alcohol Gives you four or five days of misery So instead of that six hours Just embrace the boredom And then you're going to have four or five good days Good when other people are lying suffering It's just mad I think things are getting worse as well I think more people are turning to drinking drugs I think more people are turning to suicide At an all time high and it's scary For individuals like, I just said I still get crazy thoughts And I question that I think we'll have a really changed But I'm not acting on those thoughts I'm acting like I'm probably going to go back to the gym Just to get that extra bit of medicine And stay grounded The thoughts have been there But I'm not acting on them, which is the main thing But you keep thinking about it You might have that one bad day And you might think fuck it Definitely, I can barely connect With you then and that James I still struggle myself But it's not sort of an instant thing I'm becoming aware that it'll come weeks before and I'll start feeling low or I'll start struggling with something and becoming irritable and I'll know it's coming and there's maybe a blip coming here and it's time to act on that. And we are going to fall off the wagon sometimes you know what I mean? It's about just got to get back up on the horse I suppose if you do go that far you know and get to meetings and carry on. I couldn't mind that. One drink would just send me everything I've created over the last three four years would just go upside down. Like then people then don't take you serious and go well you just fucked it so how can you give advice like because there's a lot more pressure riding on these now because a lot of people watch this and take a lot of what you're saying and realise like fuck me I can change and there's people a bit of belief that if I was to go in a gaffe and start boozing and taking gear mate I just feel like an absolute fraud man everything I wouldn't I would just go hiding yeah probably hide it for a few months yeah but then people start telling the telltale signs you start getting aggressive and angry and you just yeah like meetings and stuff I wouldn't I would stop showing up and yeah just become a fucking liar again yeah it's scary man yeah it's a constant fucking good and evil and I always think man why am I still doing that why the fuck is that still there but you're doing it for 20 years it just fucking never goes away no it's just not to act on it which is a scary thing when did you start realising when did you start seeing yourself becoming a better individual probably within weeks really sort of like slowly started coming back to myself again you know spending more time with me kids you know and it's sort of like realise you know as I spent more time with my kids I mean I had a young daughter at the time she was only she was two as I sort of like put the drink on my way down and I just thought wow it was just amazing how the bond sort of grew with her and you know and now look at the bomber and it's any spot and now she's five you know she'd be she'd be six in the summer and I just think I would never have had all this and but yeah you know you just sort of you just sort of like feeling within yourself that you've been coming to the old the old you know before before the drinkings looks sort of like you know I think they bring you out you know they take away your own your own true character and you sort of like you know you're acting out and you know you're acting like a bit of an asshole a bit of a dick I don't want to hear and suppose when when you sort of you know you realise you know you're being a bit more caring and you know you got a lot to get you know a lot to give a lot of love to give suppose that's when you sort of like realise you know that this is out this is only true you what you know how you're supposed to be how you meant to be just strips of who you're destined to be and yeah and it's mad because we've all got great potential to be something great they've all got amazing but belief if you've got that belief that you can be something you can yeah be however the fuck you want to be and yeah no matter what anybody says and when you start changing at the start if you've been an asshole for so long nobody believes that you're going to change nobody fucking believes and when you start changing you want to tell everybody you kind of want to make amends with all the wrongs that you've done but nobody's interested because you've broken down gradually mentally spiritually fucking whatever because of the bullshit that you carried for so long and deflecting on other people because when you want to scream from the rooftops I remember I stopped for nine months and I was fucking just turn everybody this is amazing this is what you're doing I kind of was just pushing everybody away yeah because how the fuck are you to say because you were a wanker for so long yeah do not mean that all you can do is just keep being you and yeah just attract to write people in your life and you go through changes it's not for everybody always touch on addictions but that's all I know it's all I can only speak from experience but it changes one life from a podcast or whatever then you're on the right path to yeah for people just to plant those seeds and maybe see the world a bit differently and understand that you're not a big man by sitting on a gaff it's not in your brain out that ain't a tough man that's a weak man yeah that's a loser mentality not matter where you look at it and you may have the baddest and biggest man in that gaff selling gear and taking it and he thinks he's big time he ain't big time give him five ten years and it's a good chance he might not even be here because you don't even know what you're fucking snorting now absolutely fries your brain man but the proper that I was just kind of getting out as the proper was hidden yeah a few years back man and I remember that we used to get about a year back and then I was 50 15 used to rat like what are half ounce between a few of you but then they were the proper kicked in the day the two days three days seemed to go for four and five they seem to have went fucking longer whatever the fuck is in that shit it's unbelievable mate you're absolutely flying out your nut don't speak everybody just sitting by it yeah thinking what the fuck is going on why would you do that yeah actually even thinking about it now I think to myself why yeah all these guys sitting in a room not saying fuck go for days for days just sitting back as a gear fucking some guys some randoms like he's shot off in a corner and you know other guys are talking shit and other people just sitting tuned to the moon and you're thinking why yeah why mad curtain switching and all sorts and it's just smell that's addiction fire in it I suppose you know it's crazy why would you want to do that to yourself you know but like you said when you're sat there you know I mean and you know what you know the worst thing is when you keep going back I just keep going back I knew what was coming I knew what was coming and it's just like you say you sat there you can't speak and you think why am I doing this no a few days later you're gonna do it again why fucking it's madness that's why they only call it the madness so I got fucking crazy it's giving the dry nose kicks in you can't even snort anymore yeah the lights phones off you just but then I used to always think about my kids I was always thinking about family's to sit in the graph and think wow but it was all good at a time that the first six hours is fucking class because you're buzzing out your tits man everybody's fresh and people start dwindling away and going home I hated that I fucking hated that because I knew I couldn't go home yeah I don't want to go home because I wasn't happy anyway yeah but it's when people start going you think oh no and then you just get me a gear get a few hours more kept then try and get kept then I'm back out of fuel fresh yeah a shiver in three days passes and nothing's changed listen to the same music talk about the same shit yeah files to sit and get on it now my friends would still be talking about doing this same console want to do 10 15 year ago yeah it's the same shit patterns the same shit music it's the same shit chat nothing changes no unless you do see when you started making the changes on the adjustments how good did you start to feel how long did it take a couple of weeks real a few weeks you know I mean and started going out running getting the old them dark things going on whatever you're starting getting back in the gym and I'm just being around people up you know just being around different people you know I mean out of that sort like circle and yeah and then you know it just sort of like spirals from there and carried on with a boxing and whatever and it got to the point you know after like 12 months and and you know the lads from the football started you know getting on the phone to me and like you say asking for a bit of help or a bit of advice and so yeah it was it was good to see you know to know that you know yeah it has been noticed and that you can sort of like offer a bit of help that's the the mad thing but again to come out the circle as well it's difficult because people don't want you to come out the circle in a little team brotherhood because then you think people think you've turned on them because you want to change your life and bet your life and that's the fucked up thing people say you've changed good because I wanted to change I wasn't fucking happy that if you can't support me for trying to make changes then will you ever a friend that's the way I look at it but it's harder to start because you're vulnerable and you're weak and you think you can't do it yourself but to make changes you need to do it yourself because nobody's on the same mission as you not everybody wants to change no that's it you've got you've got to do it by yourself you know you've got to want it you know you've got to really want it and then yes you know but you've got to have a vision in your head of where you want to be in the sort of person you want to be and you and you know you as hard as it is you've got to cut ties with people you know and like say I had that I had a really good you know really good bond with someone I from the football and yeah it was it was hard not to see him out you know and not being that circle but to be fair to be sound like you know the art the army close friends the army brothers and he supported me and he supported me for a bit you know even sort of you know if they're having a bit of a night out you know I can go for a little bit of food with him but then you know when it comes to such a time I've got I've got I've got to get off I can't be around it you know it's sort of like a fairly dangerous coming on so and you know and there are a lot you know it feels normal yeah that's just for me now I just don't do it yeah I was at a Christmas night out like a family and friends kind of a couple of workers and with a Christmas night a couple of weeks ago and it was good man had a wee dance in that for an hour but 10 o'clock came I just smoke bombed yeah everybody's everybody's sheepish yeah a lot of people watch my podcast as well so nobody really says anything yeah after a few drinks back to three hours they're grabbing you and fucking want to know but that guess was later this little people just totally change yeah kind of drains my energy so I just kind of fuck off before it kind of gets to that level and yeah but sometimes I question it because you round it all the smell of booze and seeing people haven't thought well you think they're having fun but it's a I do think would I be okay having a double working coke I still fucking think it yeah I go shut up your death bastard yeah but I still get those thoughts of some I don't go to these events often but sometimes I like to fucking relax and spend time with people that I love yeah there's only a small majority because I know I know how weak I can be yeah and that's fucking and I'm still working on that and I'll always be working on that I'll probably be battling that forever yeah but I just know a lot of people in the sidelines want me to drink as well yeah people that offer me gear and booze and thinking what you can yeah why would you do that yeah yeah you've got you've got to be on your guard suppose and I like to say you just being aware of that danger and you know I mean I mean it is it's hard it's hard especially when people are out and what have you not meaning and you'd like to say you want to be out with you know the people that you love and enjoy it and everything but at the same time you're like you know you need to take a step back from it you know I mean it's like you sort of like feel you can feel the dangers of it and you know that feeling of uncomfortableness and I suppose it's a good thing in real life it's a warning you know you know it's not for you so I think that's sort of like so like you don't guard from you've you know for yourself to sort of like you know as soon as you're feeling that uncomfortableness you've got like something to take a step back like you say I'm the same you know my right out for a little bit of time and then when it gets to a certain time you just want to get off you want to just like you know you've had enough when did you come out the football scene there claims when you're going through recovery as well yeah probably before before well just before I put it down really so I say I was on a banning order and so I wasn't going and I just thought like I was that down and that depressed I just I wasn't mixing with anybody so I wasn't really no sort of like frame of mind to get out and to go near football so it's probably been like about probably been about four or five years now so I like not being involved do you miss that? Not really. Down and again the thoughts will come back because I suppose you're ever going to go away you know what I mean similarly drinking the drugs it's another addiction it's another addiction for me to football so I don't suppose you'll go away you know it is hard it is hard sometimes. How would you feel if you took your daughter to a match and just erupted with violence between fans letting your daughter was in the middle of it how would you feel genuinely? Yeah I'd be fucking fuming you know what I mean yeah I'd be like frightening you know obviously a lot of city kids and you know what I mean see him, see him out. That's the thing isn't it like as much as it's people think it's a good thing and boy yes like if other people are caught in a crossfire that's where things need to make changes and go from what fuck it because I always thought like people it was like you watch the forums and you think they'll make grass fuels and they're just all jars like fucking 1600s but it's not because they're just they're still causing it everywhere. Yeah yeah definitely. You know I remember one one one fight we had and it always takes a minute was in the bar in Manchester the bar got trashed and it went off and it was only afterwards you know realised there was fucking families in the bar you know what I mean and they've had to get off the way because of that and it's sort of like a fucking real shame for feeling you know what I mean but like I said at the time you don't see that you've got the blinkers on you just see who's stood in front of you. So that's what I always say you know a lot of footballers as I say you know it's no innocent people or whatever but you know the fucking can be like I say you know it can be and it is a bit shameful that. So when City started playing well do you think a lot of people want to join these firms or is it kind of just the same and your team's playing good or bad? Yeah it's probably just the same nail it goes up and down I mean I think it just depends sort of like who's on banning hours and what have you at the time and a lot of lads will drop off you know what I mean and some of us younger lads will come through it's just like constant conveyor belt I've just lads changing you know what I mean like I say a lot of lads get to a certain age and they sort of like knock out on the head and other lads just sort of have to come away for it for itself or you know and he's just kind of like say constant conveyor belt different you know younger lads coming through what are getting involved. Do you see a lot of that a lot of people coming in now because a lot of people have spoke to just miss it maybe in the 50s 60s and still fucking go to every game but you can still see if a fucking if it kicked off they would still be there yeah I believe anyway no matter like a lot of people there's a lot of cameras now and people are you get bigger sentences but you can still see the passion in their eyes like that fucking hunger and violence like it's crazy. It's just yeah it's um I don't know like I say I can't really put my finger on it well it is it's just um it's supposed to just something sadder and it's it is like an addiction itself you know what I mean it's sort of like say it's sparked something and it's just um that you know that instant fucking bullshit they get and you know what I mean it's um I suppose it's maybe a maybe it's somebody you know a man thing I don't know because I mean you know what I mean that if you know if it wasn't for the football you know it'd be going off somewhere else there's always be some sort of reason for mental going fight wouldn't it. Why do you think it's so popular though for like books and films that people do love that kind of stuff. Yeah they do I couldn't tell you I suppose you know it's football organism you know it's sort of like you know it's sort of like with the Italian mafia and you know I mean like the British gangsters and sort of stuff you know I mean it's just it's just something that catches people's attention. That is a purin though because every man does think they can fight. Yeah yeah and like you see I don't know there's little sound kids you see trying on the story of Eileen Jackets now they're pretending to punch the mirror and fucking you know some of them have watched them. People just think they're fighters yeah people watch these films and genuinely think they're fighters. Yeah yeah it's a totally different ballgame I always thought I could scrap I always thought I could handle myself like 20 seconds on the street or in a pub is fuck all compared to boxing matches and I realised that when I started really sparring that I'm so off the pace here. Yeah but fuck me it's okay punching people and but when you're in a ring man it's a pure talent and a craft that I ain't a professional I don't make out to be a professional but I've still got the balls to get in fight and I have another two fights yeah next year not a fucking problem the money was okay man so yeah why not and I enjoyed the fitness things I enjoyed the fucking fitness I enjoyed the the ruthlessness of the sparring like being scared but still pushing yourself to get in the spa you feel like a man you feel fucking I felt fucking proud of myself I'm sparring these guys and because oh yo everybody thinks they can break once you start taking a punch and realize you know what I'm fucking a lot harder than what I give myself credit for and then you kind of start enjoying it I fucking loved that like if you always had the boxing background of it just recently you get into it oh you're sort of like I mean I wouldn't say the gym when I was younger boxing and it's just never never took off and it was sort of like sort of like me like 20s um I just started like a few white collars and whatever and it was just a reason to get fit and also it kept me off the booze for a little while um and it just sort of like it's been from there really um going into my 30s and what have you um I had a few more and then it sort of like got into onto the only the unlicensing um and it has a quite a bit of a following then you know I mean the lads from the city had come um I had a few other mates and what have you you know I mean people from work would all come um and it was just a good night out and um and they heard it and I don't know right um but it was only when um I sort of like packed the bedding and I got fitter and um thought you know what I'm doing alright and everyone started to say you know you're alright you know if you if you put a bit of working you could go pretty far um I didn't really realise how far I could go um and um it was only when sort of like you know he's mentioned but you know I'd have a go at going bro and you know I mean maybe you know you've not got time on your hands now but just have a go um um I'm got signed up and I went to the board um but the board knocked me back said no you know you've got no amateur experience you know not really just gotta take this unlicensed stuff serious really um so um I went and had a load of amateur fights um in the mid 30s um which was maddened you know it's like going going on a boxing show there to you know and it's like young kids on the show with you and what have you and you know what I mean um and then yeah I've decided to go for it right you know we had the lockdown and what have your corona virus it so the boxing got put on hold um carried on training um I went to the boxing board again um I had a bit more luck with Sam what was it like um what's on what's the unlicensed stuff like um it's basically it's basically um just white colour so it's just white colour um but obviously there's lots of got a bit more experience um it's still only like three you know three rounds three three minute rounds all you can know we had to end up having a bit longer end up doing like six six rounds and what have you um but again it's not going to you know I mean so you could you know you end up fighting a kid who's like forced or never in your some time that could be a bit um a bit dangerous you know that's the fucking thing like I was I was doing eight rounds of free yeah and then my fight was only three rounds and I was fucked after the first round I was flying eight rounds of free yeah and I thought man this is a good intensity it's but on my fight night it was a totally different intensity yeah we were I was main event well co-main event so I had an extra four or five hours to wait so the adrenaline must have been fucking pumping and time and my ring enters was seven minutes yeah my coach Andy McCart was telling me everything's fucking percentages you've always shouted everything's percentages so we've done the the the way in and obviously we come face to face he says don't fucking look away until he looks away and obviously done that so that's a small percentage then we were in the ring when he touched club just put your gloves there he'll touch yours and then when the ring entered I was in second so just make him fucking wait yeah because of the heat under the lights yeah they kept telling me about it and I'm thinking I'll be fine that but the time I got to the fucking ring I was shattered yeah and then I started to get because I was fighting front of thousands and it was my first fight but I was fucking buzzing and I was proud that I'd done it yeah because I was the underdog kid I was fighting was younger taller stronger had fights before I'm and he looked obviously better shape than me I was still going in a bit pudgy yeah but I fucking done well man and I won but I would do it again man yeah it was a buzz it was the fucking buzz and I kind of hurt a little after it though because people say she was buzzing and I was buzzing for the first hour and it kind of went away because I felt as if I had no more goals yeah to achieve yeah and I wanted to get a fight straight away because I train harder under pressure or when I know I've got a goal then did you find that after each fight that you wanted to get another one yeah um differently especially in the early days when I was still drinking and what have you sort of um because as soon as I had my fight I was back on the beer um and it was sort of like it was it was sort of like a bit of a medicine to keep me sober but um yeah definitely now um you know this um when you know there's a goal um I like to say the buzz are getting in there you know what I mean the buzz are getting in there and I like to say there's nowhere to hide in there there's nowhere to hide you know it's not um you know you're not in the street or in a pub or anywhere else you know what I mean there's just two men there you know and you know they had the pressure of having fucking hundreds and thousands of people watching you um but it all adds to the buzz of it don't it you know what I mean it all adds to the buzz you know um especially if you get to win yeah but I've got a new found respect for anybody that goes under those ropes and has a pair up but I used to watch boxer and think I used to hit the pads and think man I could knock anybody out and yeah and then you watch boxers and you think man I could fucking batter him and then you spar and you realize that pads don't move yeah so try to land a punch while somebody else is moving it's a it's a pure craft yeah no matter if you're an amateur a professional how these guys can go 12 rounds it's fucking unbelievable yeah it's unbelievable that the thickness of it everybody I believe should genuinely at least in a life have one fight yeah and get a taste of it and they would have more respect for the people who fucking do it yeah because I used to judge it you get those armchair people sitting fucking fill up pizzas and sitting in their underpants just giving advice that everybody thinks I believe everybody thinks they can fight yeah but until you're in those fucking in that ring where it's a lonely journey yeah you can get embarrassed your pride gets dented but I probably lost the majority mass bar in sessions because the kids I was thinking was was younger was sharper and it fucking humbled you and I'm thinking man I used to sit outside sometimes the training and I was ready to text say fuck it I'm not going coming in tonight or making excuses but I used to force myself to go because I know I had a fight yeah you fucking learn the craft and at the time after after four weeks then it just become natural I started to enjoy getting it I didn't mean that because I realized okay man I can take a dig yeah that's in it but that's a bit psychotic as well I used to question that because I started to a fucking genuinely started to enjoy it yeah enjoyed it I didn't mean letting the first round getting a few digs in because I felt as if it was toughening me up yeah I fucking enjoyed it man that's a that's a mad thing did you enjoy getting that as well or was that just me yeah no I did enjoy so sparring sessions as well yeah you know what I mean um he's just he's just to suppose it's you know he's been in that fight you know that fight you know where did I know some of the best fights I've had you know he's where um he's just you know real slugfest you know what I mean and really gone you know to the to the depths where you know you're both knackered in you just you know you've got to dig deep and go for it um I don't know if he's anything psychotic in it I don't know I suppose you know we're animals aren't we we're animals and maybe it's just sort of like that that that that uh man finger suppose you know what I mean um that's a fucking mad experience isn't it he's great mate yeah I do another one I realized I thought I trained hard I didn't I thought I did I was training three times a day yeah but now I know the extent I wasn't to be blown after the first round man I'm thinking what the fuck happened it's just nerves lights everything yeah a lot of it nervous energy you can um you you can get that you can get out of that way just sort of like felt it was blowing and it was unfit but you can be over over it you know over nervous and you know I mean um it's just about calming down I suppose yeah I wish I'd have probably gotten into that but when I was younger instead of football I think I would have had more discipline yeah I think I'd have been more disciplined I think there's been a lot sharper mentally yeah because you know it's totally night and day from boxing the exercise to drinking and taking gear like it's two sides of respect from yeah like the feel good factor to then the misery yeah suicidal like you don't get that no boxing training like you feel alive that's the most alive I've felt in 37 years like yeah I felt fucking amazing yeah my ideas were fresh I was bang on it my all my clothes started to fit confidence started to rise and after my fright I thought I'm not going to go back into old habits but sure as fuck I did because I felt as if I'll have a week off that week's turned into three months yeah and I've seen right okay man let's get the shit back together again every podcast my week is up and fucking down yeah I want to kind of maintain it man I want to kind of feel good and enjoy it and that's when I felt at my best when I was doing the boxing for eight weeks nine weeks like I felt amazing like that exercise that pushing yourself to the extreme is doesn't make you want to drink because you're feeling so good you don't want to go and fuck it I believe that was yeah me personally but I don't know how you deal with that but did you think to feel that as well when you're training that yeah it's it's sort of like it's a natural good it's a natural goodness it's a natural good chemicals you know you're endorphins and what have you and like I said there's nothing better even when you get up in the morning you go for a run you know you feel miles better at day than just you know rolling out of bed and cracking on it's just getting you know it's it's just about you know the the feel good factor and I don't think there's any other any other way really and you know keep yourself looking after yourself eating the right stuff as well you know even now with like you'll notice yourself after you camp you know if you vet you vet well and then you sort of like eat a bit a bit of shit afterwards you feel shit yeah you feel shit you are what you put in you know I know I am just sort of like when I turned pro I started dealing with a nutritionist and it's like crazy you know it's like it's the science around everything you know I mean you know what you put in your to make you feel good and and it is it's true you know you are what you eat you know you put shit inside you you feel shit I mean like now Christmas now I've just had a bit of shit like over the last few days you're like you're like you feel like you feel pudgy you feel shitty and tight you know you feel tired you know what I mean but when you're up when you're up running you're eating out for your old porridge for your breakfast and you're eating all your fruit you know you you feel on the bar completely you know yeah you've got that extra boys man that extra kick the extra chemicals that you need to kind of take away and block out the pain like that's the beautiful thing about that how was it for you turning pro in your late 30s yeah it's a bit mad I mean a lot I mean a lot of people told me said you know you it's too light for you and I got told that constantly it's too light but he had it since I maybe wouldn't have that you know what I mean I was addicted to the boxing now and I mean just sort of like drove you know what I mean that that was my new addiction and I just sort of believe I've come that far that I've got a carry on I've got a carry on and it's sort of like and I did have this vision in me that I was gonna have a professional fight you know what I mean even if it was just the one I think I just wanted to get in that ring as a pro and so yeah and it was a he was a long he's a long process took like it's over two years for me to get there really you know what I mean with the board and you know with the corona virus and I like kicking in and then they had to have assessments and what have you but yeah to get in there it was it was it was massive so where do you go from it from here from here um well I'm not sure yet you know I mean I'm just I mean when the first start when the first before my first pro fight which you know I lost I lost my first fight um you know the big build-up and then I ended up getting dropped in the first round so you know like you say it was like a real fucking come down you know what I mean it's sort of like wow it was and it was an odd the uphill to swallow that um but one my second fight um so just looking forward to the area ahead now hopefully get a couple more wins um you know when I first when I first got my license I had the vision that I could maybe fight for the area title you know you know whatever that'll go but um yeah just I'm just gonna keep on enjoying it and just you know hopefully you know I keep fighting up until I'm 40 maybe see how I feel then How was it then the build-up changing your life first professional fight and then getting put in your ass the first round but ah it was like um it was like it just won't you know it wasn't meant to be that you know the fairy tales of the story I was meant to come out and let me win and fucking I had I had 100 of people say you know I mean the noise in this in the arena was echoing you know I mean I was singing my name it was like fucking out it's brilliant coming out on this big stage and then a few weeks later I've been fucking dropped I'm like it was um just like the fucking world to swallow me up it was horrible it was horrible it took me um took me days to sort of like get me around it you know I mean but um you know I was talking to people and what have you but um someone said something and it sort of like it oh he said aren't you know your story all the bumps that you're having the road you know there's always something you've got to jump over an hurdle said this is just another hurdle and it sort of like that give me a fucking bit more belief in myself but you know what yeah just get back up get in the fucking gym again and let's get the next one um and I went out um I think it was about seven weeks later I've got the win so did that make you think about going to gear or the booze at any point um yeah definitely um sort of like I suppose that that that in the back of my head will probably always be my go to when things get hard that's just sort of like your go to um and yeah it's sort of like I was I was a bit down after it yeah um but I suppose a fight didn't make what I thought no you know what I've got to put this fucking right I'm gonna need to put it right how was it when in there yesterday I can feel you it was like a relief more than anything um just to relieve that you know manage to get you know get the win um like I say after the afterwards now probably it's probably just you're still there niggling that defeat you're probably still there niggling inside but um but yeah I've just released that I've got the win as a professional boxy you know what I mean at 38 you know what I mean it's um I suppose it's still still a pretty good achievement definitely for where you've came from the break so I said to the fucking fighting pro let's um yeah you can go like yeah where are you getting sparked in the first round and then come back and win like that's all part of your process that yeah always hitting obstacles and that's where you find out who you really are when the defeats come yeah because like you say we can hide behind the booze in the gear because we don't want to face it but to stand up and then kick on that's you're facing it and then the pain doesn't can imagine you quit yeah after that yeah never get to taste the victory but that's what happens people quit because they taste the defeat and I don't like it yeah but you're like everybody tastes defeat yeah that's the most successful people have tasted defeat the most they've just not let it fucking defeat them or quit they've just not let it give up and that's the majority of people in the world and now people just giving up left right centre because they think there's no way out there's always hope man there's always a way out it's down to the individual that when's your next fight um looking at maybe april um where's that man just a bowl I'll come yeah come bro definitely don't let me down bro yeah no no I've got plenty of time to see him for it so so yeah hopefully april at bowlers what wait you think that um a fight sort of like super middle weight um but me it varies i've got to like every weight as well so it's 12 was like 12 but between between 12 and 12 an hour stone yeah it's fucking it's it's knockout punches but that way and that when you get connected you're a fucking preach man it's good night man yeah I always think my head guards on and I still feel fucking digs yeah because we everybody agreed not to fit your head fight no headguards of course man big man I don't like to fight your headguards but health and safety kicked in because we're not uh professionals are fuck all yeah it was uh the rules but I'm fucking glad now yeah I'm fucking glad man like it's I still got you still get dizzy you still get the flashes sometimes when you get cracked man like do you spare the headguards on yeah spare the guards and I like to say the big the big 16 arms gloves um but yeah it's different when you're getting in there and you fight with 10 ounce and there's nothing in them for them progress there's absolutely nothing in your headguards and you feel it man yeah you're fucking right you're doing it you you your family not your kids that must be pruding you've made the changes that's the main thing like yeah yeah I mean both the girls probably don't really they've never really seen this sort of like me at me worst you know I mean they probably won't remember um which is a good thing which is a good thing really you know I mean I'll never see that and like say you know the bond with me youngest is is it brilliant you know I mean it's proper daddy's girl it's great you know I mean there's something to see man there's no better feeling that you know they're running out and you know and you can pick them up a lot of your uh my lad he's coming up to 15 he has seen me at me worst um I sort of I've always had a good bond with him even sort of like him in my dark his days um and I don't know whether he's sort of like a kid's thing because he's pretty resilient aren't he and he's sort of maybe I don't know if he maybe shuts a lot of that out or he doesn't remember um but he has he has seen you know the turnaround in me um and it's just I just hope it can sort of like influence him as well to go the right way he's a city fan as well yeah so you go to the games yeah talking to yeah talking to a game doing that guys lead yeah it might be in his blood though if he down your route you went down through not maybe the alcohol and the drugs but the fighting side of things because he's dad our kids are a reflection of us yeah do you know what I mean like absolutely yeah how do you feel um you know I'd be gutted really you know um I can see I do see it in him you know what I mean I see you know like his eyes are light up especially for taking him out you know what I mean you know like see all the boys in the pub and they're like oh you know what I mean and they might tell him a few stories about your dad or whatever you know what I mean and it's like yeah but that's you know that's that's that's something you know what I mean just you know and I take him in the gym I'm not living now you know try and get him on the sort of like bit of fitness or whatever so it's it's like you say but you've got that I suppose I've had that experience um and that can maybe keep him keep him a bit grounded direct him in the right you know push him in the right path we're probably more chance of him doing that if you were still drinking and taking gear do you know what I mean now yeah clean path maybe go down the fitness route and trying to be as strong as natural as possible man like I always say this but our kids are a reflection as they do follow in our footprints no matter if it's good or bad like you say earlier you've seen a reflection of your mum and you yeah do you know what I mean like if you're going down the box and you're turning pro and being fit and healthy hopefully that then ingrains into your son that that's the route he can go down because we can only raise our kids to a certain level and teach them what it takes you can raise your kid the best in the world but they can meet certain people or go down certain paths and it takes them down to a darker road that you don't want to happen but fingers crossed that they are kids your kids do make the right decisions yeah no thank you yeah yeah and hopefully the kids can make well they give them enough knowledge to know what's right for rock know what's right wrong do you know what I mean yeah definitely yeah how is it then like being away from everybody do you feel it's a lonely journey making changes and try to become a better individual yeah definitely um you know these times where um like you say you know you feel like you're missing out and like you've just sometimes I feel like I've cut myself off from the world um and it's sort of like even even now you know I'm still still at the beginning of this journey you know I mean there's still massive mistakes I still see the old me coming out you're spilling out at times you know I mean um me temper can flare up or become irritable um so yeah it's just I think it's you've got to learn you know you've got to learn and sort of like the deep and you know I I believe now you've got to you know try and be as spiritual as you can and try and go down that path and you know learn about yourself and um it's about being the best version of yourself um and you know it doesn't come overnight I suppose you got you know he's a constant um it's a constant working progress yeah Wendy what triggers you the most where do you find your trigger points um it could be a number of things really this is this and it's like seriously it's part about learning about yourself um it could be anything it could be sort of like if I'm feeling a little bit down um you know trying to find out what sort of like makes me down you know I mean it can that can sort of like it can quickly feel like an old dive I can I'm crashing down again um sort of like you know if I'm not seeing my kids for a while you know I mean if it's been a week or so that can sort of like make you feel a bit lonely um you know anything you know a little argument with somebody could sort of like trigger you know what I mean I don't think that's the hard thing to really change is to go right in deep and get the rooted the rooted problems that it's okay to have a bit of fire and a bit of aggression but as long as your channel is in the right way and instead of the proper violence that you go full steam ahead and then you're just going to be fully regretting it again and there's a good chance you slip back into old habits like yeah that's not what you want to do like it's fucking difficult though because you always be tested every day you're tested yeah just depends what kind of mood you're in and how you want to react to it that's what everything's to do with your reaction yeah definitely yeah and like you say you know um you know nobody's perfect and you know any day we are all humans and and I still I still have the problems now um so like you say it's about continuous work I remember one of the um one of the early days when I was going in recovery um and I was saying like you know what why is it that I'm you know I'm carried on like this and they said you know that's not the problem the problems with you not really drinking the drugs that's just your solution it's the same with the football you know that's just your solution you know you see your little escape of you know getting out of the way you're really feeling so suppose you know somewhere along the lines you're gonna have to sort of like deal with you know the real emotion inside you and what it is that's triggering all this sort of you know f**king addiction and and the violent tendencies and what have you did you ever go and seal it in the psychode they still feel it no no not at a minute no um I've not I mean I've done I've just sort of like kept on the path of recovery and what have you um probably not as much as they need to really um to sort of like you know get deeper no deeper to the root or whatever um but I suppose that's that's one for the future that'll be good sort of like go to sort of like jump on that that's what something I've been talking about the last few weeks is yeah to be going to see a fairy posting I think I'm in a good place I feel as if I'm in a good place I'm doing the right things but I feel as if I start a lot a routine that shows that yeah I've never really discussed or I've never disclosed to anybody if I'm honest like there's a lot of stuff I'll take to the grave and that's just the way it is but I'd like to really speak to something just f**king put it and figure it all out because I feel as if I should be figuring that out myself and that's the wrong reason sometimes because I can preach all this sh** but I can live in from experience but there's a lot of stuff that I don't know and I'd like to really work on it and find out right you know what I want to release that but it's scary because it becomes a trust thing to be then pouring out to somebody you don't really know and it's that's the nerve wracking thing but to truly heal is to talk about it and accept it to then move on from it going forward for the future brother what's your plans um well hopefully um I've been talked about hopefully getting um getting a book deal getting a book out sort of like you know um so that's that's in the early stages um continue with me um with my boxing career hopefully take that as far as I can get and then um yeah I suppose I'm gonna have to start making some plans I think um what I want to do is sort of like do some maybe detail work you know people are struggling um I think that's where I think that's where sort of like my future future lives you know I mean so people like me is up you know I mean it's never the end you know I mean um like you say you've just touched on the suicides um I remember reading something a few weeks ago um about people having suicidal thoughts it was like um you know um you don't really want to die you just want the pain you're in now to end you know and it's it's um you know it's it's sort of like that sort that sort of thing and I know I do believe that not a lot of people you know a lot of people just be able to wait sending and end their own life when you know they've not really you know just just about hanging on I suppose just hanging on and just fighting on and um you know because you never know what's around the corner you never know what lies ahead yeah for anybody that's battling my fedexing just now what advice would you give for them Tony um just just go and get the help go and get um you know get yourself to an AA meeting see a meeting an AA meeting any sort of 12-step meeting you know speak about it um because the help is there the help is there and it's free you know I mean don't cost you don't cost you anything to go um so just go around you know it'd be the best thing you've ever done yeah it's just taking that first leap back just got to take it yeah you know it's going to change your life for the better knowing yeah just to understand that you're not alone because we'll battle these demons and and whatever fuck it as we're going through and we don't really talk about it but not talking about it just burns deeper and deeper and deeper and bigger depression and you know find well yourself that the drink the drugs is just purely to escape the the fucking madness in your mind yeah not realising some people don't realize until it's too late yeah I feel like that we've been blessed that we've seen the light and yeah try to keep working on myself it's not fucking easy definitely not easy not I used to think the more successful I become the easier it'll be but the kinder the harder it's becoming yeah that's more tests and it's fucking mad but no matter how much money or how many of you as I get it still there's just more pressure added pressure comes on to you and that's just life but as long as I'm not acting on it as long as you're not acting on it and people watching can understand that if they do it can change or anybody can anybody can make changes a lot of people see you know when you if you're looking where and doing well they can't really see what you are like in the past they can't really understand that but if they see you about fuck me okay I understand now yeah it's mad to think that how you can just sit in abusers and then go back to a party and just waste away but do what they make choices and if I never made those mistakes I wouldn't educated myself one life yeah interact help others now same as yourself that you want to do this and try and guide others not to go down the same route you would down that we wouldn't be able to do that if we'd never done the shit that we've done no definitely and then do you know it matters it sounds I've said for a while now I'm grateful for the experience that I've had because without them like say we won't be the people that we are now you know I mean I think you need to feel that pain you need to feel that pain and that rock bottom to sort of like turn it around you've got you know and it's it's that loneliness and that you know like I take that I'll trigger because without that you know there's always someone that's going to like look after like me he's been Anna you know she's always know it'll be all right and you know and I was getting what's after so without that I don't think a lot of people struggle to sort of like turn it around because yeah it's definitely got to come with yourself got to come in from from yourself yeah definitely would you like to finish up on anything brother no I mean I think I think that's it mate yeah listen yeah you're doing amazing yeah keep up the good work thanks James I'll beat your feet in a few months bro felt one part but I appreciate it mate see you on the set up pal