 Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon here in person in LA 2021. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE with Dave Nicholson, host, cloud host for theCUBE, and of course, former host of theCUBE. Stu Miniman, now at Red Hat. Stu, we do our normal keynote reviews. We had to have you come back. First of all, how's everything at Red Hat? John, it's phenomenal, great to see you. Nice to have Dave be on the program here too. It's been awesome. So yeah, a year and a day since I joined Red Hat and I do miss you guys. Always enjoyed doing the interviews in theCUBE, but we're still in the community and still interacting lots. We love you Stu, and Dave is your new replacement and covering the cloud angles. He's going to bring a little Stu Mojo to the interview, but Stu, we've always done the wrap up. It's always been our favorite interviews to do an analysis of the keynote because let's face it, that's where all the action is. Of course, we bring the commentary, but this year, it's important because it's the first time we've had an event in two years, Stu. So a lot of people aren't saying this on camera a lot, but they're kind of nervous. They're worried, they're weirded out. We're back in person again. What do I feel? I haven't seen people. I've been working with people online. This is top story. Yeah, John, I thought they did a really good job in the keynote this morning. Normally, I mean, this community in general is good with inclusion. Part of that inclusion is, hey, what are you comfortable with? If you're remote, we still love you and it's okay. And if you're here in person, you might see there's wristbands of green, yellow, red as in like, hey, you okay with a handshake? You want to do there or stay the F away from me because I'm not really that comfortable yet being here. And it's whatever you're comfortable with, that's okay. I think the inclusion and the whole respect for the individual, code of conduct, CNCF and Linux Foundation has been on the front end of all those trends. I love how they're taking this to a whole other level. David, I want to get your take too, because now with multi-cloud, we heard the same message over and over again that, hey, open wins, okay? Open wins and still changing fast. What's your take? Open absolutely wins. It's the present, it's the future. I know in some of the conversations we've had with folks looking back over the last seven years, a lot of things have changed. Whenever I think of open source anything, I go back to the foundations of Linux. And I remember a time when you had to reboot a Linux server to re-scan a SCSI bus to add a new storage device. And we all sort of put our penguin hats on and kind of ignored that for a while. And as things have developed, we keep coming into these new situations. Multi-cluster management was a big point of conversation in the keynote today. It's fascinating when you start thinking about something that was once sort of a backroom science experiment. Absolutely, it's the center of the enterprise now from a software perspective. Well, from an open source standpoint, security has been one of those front and center things. One of the day-zero events that got a lot of buzz coming at the beginning of the week was secure supply chains. So with the SolarWinds Act going in there, we remember cloud, oh wait, can I trust it with the security? Open source, now open source and security go together. Open source and security in the cloud all go together. So that wave of open source, obviously it's one of the things that brought me to Red Hat. I'd had a couple of decades working with and the enterprise and open source and that adoption curve, which went through a few bumps in the road over time and it took time. But today, I mean open source is a given this show and this ecosystem are such proof points of it. A couple of things I noticed, one, I want to do a shout out for the folks who put a nice tribute for Dan Collins out who was passed away, we miss him. We saw he was on theCUBE 2019, I believe he was on theCUBE a year with Adam on. Big influence, but the inclusiveness, Stu, and the community is changing and I think security has changed a lot. I want to get your guys' take on this. Security has forced a lot of things to happen faster. Data, open data, okay, and Kubernetes to get hardened faster. Stu, I know your team's working on it. We know what Azure and Amazon's working on it. What do you guys think about how security's been forcing the advances in Kubernetes and making that stable? Yeah, so John, security is job one. It is everyone's responsibility. We talk about it from a container in Kubernetes standpoint. We think we have a relatively good handle on what's happening in the Kubernetes space. Red Hat, we made an acquisition earlier this year of Stackrocks, which is one of the leading Kubernetes native security pieces. But, John, we know security isn't just a moat anymore and a wall that you put up. It's every single piece. You need to think about it. I've got a person from the Stackrocks acquisition actually on my team now, and I've told him like, hey, you need to cross train all of us. We need to understand this more from a marketing standpoint. We need to talk about it from a developer standpoint. We need to have consideration of it. It's no longer, hey, it works okay on my machine. Come on, it needs to go to production. We all know this. Shift left is something we've been talking about for many years, so yes. Security, security, security. We cannot overemphasize how important it is. You know, when it comes to Kubernetes, I think we're relatively mature. We're crossing the chasm. The adoption numbers are there, so it's not an impediment anymore. It's totally a dex level. I agree with you Stu. David, I get your thoughts on this whole adoption roadmap that I put it together. One of the working groups that we interviewed has got that kind of navigates, kind of like trailheads for Salesforce. But that speaks to the adoption by mainstream enterprises. Not the hardcore, you know, DevOps guys, but like it goes into mainstream enterprise. That IT departments and security groups. They're like, we got a program faster. How do you see the cloud guys in this ecosystem competing and making that go faster? So it's been interesting over the last decade or more. Often technology has been ahead of people's comfort level with that technology. For obvious reasons. It's not just, oh, something went wrong. It's, oh, something went wrong. I lost my job. Really, really bad things happened. So we tend to be conservative, rightfully so. In the, you know, sometimes there are these seminal moments where a shift happens. Go back sort of analogous. Go back to a time when people's main concern with VMware was, how can I get support from Microsoft? And all of a sudden it went from that within weeks to, how can I deploy this in my enterprise? Very, very quickly. And I'm fascinated by this concept of locking down the supply chain of code. Sort of analogous to HTTPS, you know, secure HTTP. It's the idea of making sure that these blocks of code are validated and secure as they get implemented. You mentioned things like cluster and pod security and infrastructure security. Well, Dave, you brought up a really good point. So GitOps is the instantiation of that. How can I have my infrastructure as code? How can I make sure that I don't have drift? It's because, hey, I could just, it'll live in GitHub. And therefore, it's version controlled. If I try to do something, it will validate that it's there and keep me on version because we know, I mean, John, we talked about it for years on theCUBE. We've gone beyond human scale. If I don't build automation into it, if I don't have the guardrails in place because humans will mess things up. So we need to make sure that we have the processes and the automation in place. And Kubernetes was built for that. It's automation at its core, putting in, we've seen GitOps, the Argo CD was only, went graduated, the 1.0 was supported as KubeCon Europe earlier this year. We already had a number of our customers deploying it, using it, talking publicly about it. Yes, Stu, I want to get the GitOps angle and that's a good call out there. And mainly because when we were on theCUBE, when you were a Kube host with us, we were always cheerleading for Kubernetes. We've been here every single KubeCon. We were one saying, this is going to be big. Trust us, and it is. It happens too. So, but now we've been kind of, we don't have to sell it anymore. We don't, I mean, not that we're selling it, but like we don't have to be a proponent of something when we knew it was going to happen. It happened. You're now worked for a vendor, Red Hat, you talk to customers. What does that next level conversation look like? Because now that they know it's real, that they have to do it. How is the GitOps and then modern application software development changing? What are your observations? Can you share with us from a Red Hat perspective as someone who's talking to customers, you know, what does real look like? Yeah, so, right, GitOps is a great example of that. So, you know, certain of our, you know, government agencies that we work with, you know, obviously very secured about, you know, we want zero trust. Who do we put in charge of things? So, if they can have, you know, that source of truth and know that that is maintained and locked down and not, oh wait, some admin's going to mess something up on us, either maliciously or, oops, by accident or anything in between, that's why they were pushing that adoption of that kind of technology. So, you know, absolutely, they, for the most part, John, they don't want to have to think about the infrastructure piece anymore. What do developers want? The old Paz days was, I want to be able to, you know, write once, deploy anywhere, live anywhere. Containers helps that a little bit. We even have in the container space now, you can use a serverless deployment model with, you know, Knative's the big open source project that, you know, VMware, ourselves, are working on Google's involved in it. So, you know, having us be able to focus on the business and not, you know, running the plumbing anymore is such a big piece. That's exactly it. That's what we're so psyched for. Okay guys, let's wrap this up and review the keynote. Dave, we'll start with you. What did you think of the keynote? What were the highlights? What did you take away from the Paz keynote? So, you touched on a couple of things. Inclusion from all sorts of different angles. Really impressive. This sort of easing back into the world of being face to face. I think they're doing a fantastic job at that. The thing that struck me was, something I mentioned earlier, moving into multi-cluster management in a way that really speaks to enterprise deployments and the complexity of enterprise deployments moving forward. It's not just, it's not just, I'm a developer. I'm using resources in the cloud. I'm doing things this way. The rest of the enterprise is doing it a legacy way. It's really an acknowledgement that these things are coming together increasingly. That's what really struck me. Stu, what's your takeaway from the keynote? So, there's been a discussion in the industry. What do the next million cloud customers look like? We've crossed the chasm on Kubernetes. One of the things they announced in the keynote is they have a new associate level certification. Because, I tell ya, before the keynote, I stopped by the breakfast area, sat at a table, talked to a couple people. One guy was like, hey, I've been on Amazon for a bunch of years, but I'm a Kubernetes newbie. I'm here to learn about that. It's not the same person that five years ago was like, I'm going to grab all these projects and pull them down from Git and build my stack and have a platform team to manage it. From a Red Hat standpoint, we're delivering our biggest growth areas in cloud services where, hey, I've got an SRE team. They can manage all that because can you do it? Sure, you got people. Maybe you'll hire them, but wouldn't you rather have them work on that security initiative or that new application or some of these pieces? What can you shift to your vendor? What can you offload from your team? Because we know the only constant is that there's going to be new pieces and I don't want to have to look at, oh, there's another 20 new projects and how does that fit? Can I have a partner or consultant, an SI, that can help me integrate that into my environment when it makes sense for me? Because otherwise, oh my God, cloud, so much innovation. How do I grasp what I want? Great stuff, guys. I would just say my summary is that I'm excited this community has broken through the pandemic and survived and thrived. People were working together during the pandemic. It's like a VIP event here. So my keynote epiphany was this is like the who's who. Some big players are here. I saw Bill Vass from Amazon on the ground floor on Monday night. He's number two at AWS. I saw some top VCs here, Microsoft, IBM, Red Hat. John, the hallway tracks back. The hallway track is back and it's a hybrid event. So I think we're here for the long haul with hybrid events where you can see a lot more in-person, VIP-like vibe. People are doing deals. It feels alive, Stu. And it's all open. So it's all cool. And again, the team at CNCF, they do an exceptional job of inclusion and making people feel safe and cool. So, great job. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Good stuff. Okay, the keynote review here from theCUBE. Stu Miniman job for Dave Nicholson. Thanks for watching.