 make you have to do things multiple times. I'm gonna go ahead and hit record and then when Gabby jumps in to redo it. Everybody was going to Woodstock and back in the 90s upstate New York and I'm like, you know, I'm not gonna do that. I'm like, fuck that. What am I gonna go see? It's bands that I don't, I've seen. Yeah. And ones that I don't want to see, and I don't really want to camp. I'm not into the camp and seeing so much. So I booked a ticket to Amsterdam. I go and I'm there, I don't know, three days, whatever. I do all the museums. I don't know why I just do all the museums. I like that stuff, right? Yeah. So I hang out. I go to the smoke shops. I go to the grasshopper. I'm like, well, this is some really nice stuff here. And they were telling me that they got all the stuff was from Sensey Seed Corporation. So I go over to the, I was there to get seeds anyway, but so I go over and buy seeds. I pick out the Hawaiian, the Northern Lights, the Oasis, Big Bud, Northern Lights times five. I said, you know what? I don't need the Super Skunk. I have it. Yeah. Okay. I have that already. I have the RFK. I'm running the number one and the number two. The number three got squashed right away. Like, I don't know. I can't do too many strains. I have, right, that was back because you guys talked about the RFK earlier. Yeah. Number three was gone. It wasn't the nicest. The one and the two were the nicest. I think there was, oh, and I bought a Durban. Yeah. So I had these strains. I came back to get them back. I cut all the bags that they came in or pouches I bought and I sealed them in a little tiny triangle bags each one. And I wrote on it with a magic marker what it was, really, really tiny. Yeah. So I had all the strains and they all stacked up about, I don't know, size of a quarter. Yeah. And I took them and I strapped them to Peter. You got to do things. On the bottom side. Yeah. Yeah. I know what they all are. And when I purchased these seeds, I was looking at them and I was like, oh, that's beautiful. And they look like when you get them from the magazine, they were stable. That's what you got. Yeah. Yeah. You were stable. Yeah. So I go to the airport. I'm not feeling well, but I smoked a big fat fucking joint in the airport. Yeah. I couldn't believe you were allowed to smoke in Amsterdam at the time. Yeah. It had to be mind blowing, bro. It was because that's why I did it. I was like, oh, this is cool. Let me do that. Yeah. Yeah. But I was so fucked up that I wasn't feeling well on the flight. I bet. Yeah, dude. So I don't fill out my paperwork correctly and everything and I'm coming through the line. I'm filling it out. I'm all nervous. And the dog sat down next to me. I was like, hey, what's up dog? Oh my God. The fucking beagle. I'll never forget it. I was like, my heart fucking fell to the floor. Oh, yeah. I was like, I get up to the front and go through my luggage and fucking just tore it apart and say, come with me. I was like, oh, shit. Jesus. I go into a room 10 by 10 and they stripped me down, stripped me down. So we had a thing that we thought you was smuggling heroin. I was like, buddy, I got to go to the bathroom right now and you can have my stool. Yeah. Yeah. He puts his hand on my heart and it's racing. Yeah. He goes, why's your heart racing? I said, well, you make me nervous. I'm naked. And I'm in my underwear. Yeah. In a weird place with cops. Yeah. In a weird place and you got a gun and make me nervous. Yeah. Yeah, you make me fucking nervous. Yeah. So with that, he goes, all right, go. I was like, I got dressed so fast. I bet. I got in the cab. I was so stressed out. I was just like, getting in the cab was like such a relief. Yeah. Oh, it was so hard. I get home and I was just like, oh, passed out. That's it. Oh, yeah. I had them now. You know what I'm saying? I had all these strains from the Sensei Seed Bank. Did you worry that because of your experience there and the idea that they had that you might be smuggling heroin that they might be watching your spot after? Well, they probably were looking at me because I had a stamp on my passport already from Jamaica. Oh, yeah. Wait, it was a whole Jamaica incident. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. It was not a fun time spending time in Spanish town. Oh, I bet. Yeah. It was pretty bad. Well, can you talk about it a little bit before we head on in? Yeah. You know, this is right after I met my buddy there, Gabe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Staten Island, I should recall. Yeah, yeah. So he's just like, yeah, we go to Jamaica and make some money. You know, I don't know. There's this guy here. He didn't come with me, but there was another guy from the neighborhood too. We got popped and it's been a little time in Spanish town. It was hard. Oh, no, I bet, dude. Montego Bay first and then going to Spanish town. It's not fun. I can't even imagine. That's rough. That's rough. They don't mess around there. Yeah. 13 days was enough. Yeah. That'll set you a little different. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, the facilities were so bad, like people talk about third world jail. This is what it's like. I'll tell you right now. You're sleeping on concrete. You have open latrines on the end. Okay. That means, oh, you have no, your shoes or whatever you're wearing is tracking fecal matter everywhere. Yep. Including where you sleep. Exactly. And you're sleeping 20 people and 40 square feet. It's crazy. And then your food ration can be a small juice box and a rice patty. I'm not kidding when I say that. That's exactly what it was in Montego Bay. Yeah. It's a poor country. You've got a hockey puck. You've got a hockey puck, a rice and a juice box and maybe some little other shit and that was it. You had no money. You were going nowhere. Yeah. Yeah. How did you end up getting out of that situation? Well, and then everybody's gonna, everybody gets dysentery or you get the shats. You can't control it. Like, that's it. Yeah, of course. Done. So, you get dehydrated. You get better, but how did I get out of there? It was on my 13th day and I got to see the, well, first of all, when I got there, after Montego Bay, you go to five hour or four hour drive to Kingston, Banistown and you go in a truck and the cell in the truck is on the back of a flat bed. Yeah. It's four foot by four foot and you get two foot by two foot. Jesus. This is how it is. So, like, you couldn't even squat down. Like, I stood there getting bounced around on the back of the truck with three other people. Like, serious. So, when you get to Spanish town, you talk to the warden and the first thing they're gonna ask you is, hey, can I do anything for you? Can I contact anybody for you? And I was like, yeah. You know what? You can contact my sister. Yeah. I had already gotten my bond, when my bail set at a certain amount. I was like, so contact my sister, tell her to call my mom and cash in a bond. Now, nobody would know that I have bond. So, this guy from Jamaica calls my sister. My sister's like, what? Calls my mom. My mom happened to work for a couple Jamaicans down in Miami or Fort Lauderdale. And they actually the same day. Now, I'm 13 days into it. And I go see the American Council. And she's like, I don't think I can do anything for about five days. It's gonna take time to get back and forth with people in the States, you know, because you're going through the embassy. So, I go back to the cell with an open cell area and hanging out with some guys from Brooklyn were making coffee and smoking weed in the jail. It was all over the place. You know what I'm saying? Had the best coffee, best brown sugar. That's the one thing you had plenty of. Is coffee a brown sugar in jail? That's wild. Yeah. And then, like an hour later, I hear my name being called. I'm like, hey, I go to the guy, what's up? He goes, you asked me if it was my me. And I was like, yeah, this is a, you're out of here. Get your stuff. I was like, what? I was like, okay. I didn't have anything. They took everything, you know? And so I go and I see these two black guys and they like, they're like, come with me. I'm like, what? Yeah, right? And then the American embassy lady is like, you know these guys? I'm like, no. All right. Sit right there. Don't move. They made, she made the two guys sit down too. And then they had to explain because they were, I don't understand them. They were speaking potwash. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I was like, okay. So then he took me to the airport, you know? And then they made me sit in the room and then they put me on an airplane home. Oh, wow. So were they just friends of your, your mom's friends? Yeah. He was a business guy and he just had connections in, in Kingston. Wow. That was lucky, dude. I was lucky, you know, but I mean, yeah, I don't know how to describe, but fucking stepping in shit on that on the way home. I bet. To get out. I guess it's who you know, sometimes. Dude, yeah. Sometimes life is just like that and you get lucky because that is, yeah. And that's not the first time that's happened. I mean, I mean, going down the line, it happened in the future again with luck. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So that, so that's about the time that you started. Was that about the time you met Gabby? I'd like to hear the story of how you met him from your point of view because he told his point of view. Yeah. I know. It's cool. I heard it. I think it's a great story. And it's again, that's how everybody has this perspective and exactly, you know, what you remember. You know what I'm saying? Because it was a, so there was another member. So I'm, this shows with a night before in the garden and I'm fucking, I'm sitting outside in the sun on my steps in the back of the house and this guy, this hippie walks by and he says, hi, you know, a peace sign right back. And I just laughed, you know, because I was kind of still a little bit tripping, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he comes over, he goes, hey, you were buying the LSD. I was like, yeah. Speaking that language. Yeah, right? So I bought some off him and he goes, hey, I have my two friends are over here hanging out and we really need a place to hang out. Would you mind coming, letting us hang out? You know, like we were at the shows and I was at the shows too and I was like, all right, let me take me over to your friends, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So you walk over and there's this guy and this girl, they're sitting on the curb on the side of a busy road. Yeah. Like buses go by, could double lane, you know, it's like, and it's Gabby and it's Staten Island and I go, hey, what's up? And they were smoking a joint, I think. Yeah. I think they were smoking. And I introduced myself and it's like, hey, come on, let's go hang out. And they hung out for like three days. I was like, these guys ever gonna leave? Yeah, right? That's a three days. You made best friends for life, bro. Yeah. What? In those three days, okay? Yeah. I trusted them because I went to work and I came back and my stuff was still there. Yeah, that's rare. That's rare. Yeah. So I trust them and I built a friendship with them right there on the spot, you know? For sure. And he did have some good weed. I was like, oh, it's got the good weed. Yeah, that always helps, dude. Yeah. It's a great way to make an introduction is bring the best weed. Absolutely. So when you met Gabby, what exactly were you growing at the time or had you not started growing yet? Well, I had always and only grown outdoors at the time at that time. And it was like, I wasn't doing it year to year. My first time was actually back in the early 80s, like 84. Oh, my brother in law and I had done some small Hindu cushions that he had in his backyard. That was the first time I had ever been introduced to growing weed. And it didn't go well because somebody robbed it. Of course. Yeah. So then I would try the woods and hide it and get some stuff. Hello. And I would get some stuff. And then nothing really took off until I met Gabby. Yeah. He's like, yeah, I just use indoor. You can grow an indoor. I'm like, really? All right. You know, he's got my wheels ticking down, you know? Yeah. So he goes out, does this thing. He told me I think you might even go to California. So I go. That was a time when we didn't make it in a band burned on fire, just a reference to people that we told the story to before. So now the click that I'm hanging out with, we decide to go into the city. Yeah. Into Manhattan. And I said, you know what, guys, I need to go to this store in the city over in Washington. No, was it 14th Street time 14th Street area? And I wanted to go to the bookstore and search for books on cannabis. Yeah. And I did. And I got a, I got a book by Jack, Jack's book. And yeah, and I took it home. And I read the fucking thing. And both and I started doing my thing. But I didn't have the proper likes, like, like, sat down and talked about. And so I hung up these caresses in an eight foot long closet, or six foot long closet by two foot deep. Yeah. And every day I would move the lights up about a half inch. Yeah. I kept them right there. I was doing the fucking the jig with them. It was, it was a lot of it was a labor of love. All right. Yeah. But when I got that first crop, and all the people that went to the bookstore with me and laughed about what all you're going to do this. Yeah. Right. You're not going to get anything. Dude, you don't know what you're talking about. You're wasting time. Just buy it. Like, all right. I got that first crop. I was impressed myself. I was like, wow, he's a nice, even though it was just like bag seed from sure shit weed, but it was better than what I was getting from the neighborhood. Yeah. So finally, he also had this little plant. Is that the Francine? That little Afghani. You remember that little tiny Afghani? Gabby. Hold on a second. Sure. Sure. What's up? The Francine. Was it the, go ahead. What? What about it? The first plant that you ever brought over to my house who brought me this cotton, this little Afghani plant. Do you remember? I don't remember what it was. I don't think so. Your friend Lou gave it to you. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember. It definitely wasn't that because I popped the seed myself afterwards. Okay. But that was like, that was a cool little plant that he brought over. Yeah. And it was very Hindu Kush. So we use that and I crossed it. I don't think I crossed it purposely, but I got seeds off it and I used those and I planted those. They didn't come out good. I had to toss them because they're Hermes too much. And then we were in Washington at the show and he talks about the bag that we got the seeds from. I can't remember who scored the bag, but we did fight over the seeds. Is that the RFK? Yeah, we argued over the seeds and I confiscated them. You know, that's, that's been a strain that I've been researching for a long time because there's not a lot of info out there about it. And I remember the first time I heard about it was, it was supposedly in this line called DNL and it was supposedly RFK Skunk Hawaiian Northern Lights. But I don't think that's correct. But is it? The Hawaiian wouldn't be in there. What I know. Yeah. But somebody who is growing the weed from, that I got it from. Yeah. It could have been from them. Yeah. I don't know. Because there was a sweet version and there was a version that was very hashy. Yeah. Okay. And had beautiful structure where the, the, I guess, if it was going to call it Hawaiian, more of the sativa looking. Sure. The kind of short and bushy though. Yeah. It didn't go grow really tall like the Hawaiian that I got from Desensee Seed Bank. So it has a complete different structure. When was the last time you were growing any of the RFKs? I would say soon after. I would say soon after I came back with the seeds from Amsterdam, I discontinued it. Yeah. I was like, this is out of the line. This is a problem. These are a problem to begin with because they hermit. Ah, interesting. Okay. Yeah. I didn't want to be in the garden. And even in fact, when I was wondering, you know, like when I got the flower originally, they had the little bananas on them. Yeah. Like we would call them bananas. Yeah. And the pods. And so like you kind of knew, and then the seeds were there, but you used them because this is what you had. Sure. Yeah. You weren't going to be growing males. So you used what you got. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Do you remember if you said one was hashy and was either really skunky? Yeah. They were both skunky. Definitely. Yeah. For the plants. They were beautiful plants. Just like, I had pictures of them at one time. And then, you know, you lose things over the years. Yeah. Of course. It's hard to tell. In the beginning, I was kind of like thrilled. And I actually think you took the photos. Yeah. Staten Island. I think you're taking the photos. You had taken the photos and gave them and given them to me. What were they of? The RFK. Oh, yeah. I don't have that anymore. Yeah. Snapshot captured in time. Yeah. Yeah. That's too bad. Yeah. That's, it's one of those stories that I've changed for a long time. And I didn't even know it made its way back to you, which is really cool that we finally have some answers on it, what it was, what it was like. You know, I had three of them. Yeah. And three of them. You know, I have some friends in Virginia that picked up and they're old school. Like, if you know the far away from Virginia, the cut that was going around East Coast, is this made with it? No. That comes by your crew. Yeah. It was pretty popular, at least in Virginia. And they were the crew that popped those seeds. And one of their friends has this old cut of something they called RFK, but it may not even be the same ones you had. You know what I mean? You know, it's just funny that we called it that because we didn't know what to call it. Yeah. We used the initials from the stadium. That's, that's what we did. Yeah. Let me see. I have some other stuff here written down. Okay. Let's see. So let's get into some of the diesel stuff, dude. What was the, the genesis and the reason for the name of sour diesel? You know, I really didn't, I didn't name it, Joe named it. Okay. So like, and he's always says it's because it soured friendships. Yeah. And it did sour friendships and even the chem book, sour friendships. Sure. Okay. Or even any strain that you were holding because the person that you got it from, say like chem dog, right? Yeah. Because I got to want you to give this out. Don't give it out. So then I'm trying to hold word with this person, but this person over here, yo, you got that? Can I get that? Come on. Yeah. I'm your friend. Yeah, friend. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So it's like, uh, and then after a while you break down anyway and you get for sure. Yeah. Because it's sour in your friendship, right? And did you guys call it diesel originally? No, I didn't even know what to call it. That's the Albany crew that came up with diesel. Definitely. That's interesting. Okay. Cool. So that's, so is that Joe's crew, the Albany crew? I would guess. Yeah. Him, Vando, Maxwell. That's right. You know. Yeah, I remember. Max, those guys, those guys were a lot of, it was a lot of fun in the depth. Did you tell me, Matt, that Vando was taking credit for it? Well, Vando had said that the bag didn't say sour on it. It said our diesel on it and someone wrote an S on it as a joke. And it became sour diesel after that joke. That could be true. Yeah. Yeah. I have no clue. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That could be true. And, you know, but, you know, and that's his, again, that's his perspective. Yeah, right? His memory, perspective. And that's how it works. And that's what we're learning. And it was, the only reason it worked is because we were all there at the same time. Exactly. You know, why was there, this is a good question. This is one that's really puzzled me for a while. Early on, there was confusion that the sour or the diesel, rather, was a Chem91 clone exactly. Just the Chem91 cut renamed. And then there was confusion that it might be a Chem91 S1 bag seed pure Chem91. And later on, it became more of a super skunk hybrid. Which do you think seemed more accurate to you from your perspective? Because I don't want you to feel like you're held down to saying it is for sure. I'm going to ask you to repeat that. Okay. So, early on, people, I don't even know if it was early on in my experience when I came into the scene around 2006, 2008. In that region, people were saying that diesel was a Chem91 clone. Okay. So, stop right there. So, 2006. Okay. I'm already out of the picture. I'm out of the picture. Two years. Okay. So, what people were doing, I don't know. Yeah. Because I didn't even dabble because I was afraid I'd see behind bars. Yeah. All right. So now, 209 is, okay, I'm free. Yeah. I can do what I want. Now I'm starting to do my little bit of outdoor. Now I can only do outdoor. And that's it. Because I don't have a spot indoors. And my life is completely changed at this scene, at this time. I am now working, doing back what I used to do before I started growing. Yeah. So, I have got a whole new career. And now it's 213 is really when I can do what I want to do outdoors. I start my freedom program all over. Yeah. From scratch. I get a cut of the sour. I get some genetics from he's out in Ohio. But I'd like to stop. Pip? I can't remember. He's got dreads. He's black. Oh, candy man? No, green something. I don't know. Yeah, I can, I have t-shirts and I don't even have a set here. You know, but I haven't, I haven't spoken to him in years, you know, like people would just text me and people would even just fucking walk up to me sometimes. Hey, you got any seeds? Hey, you got, I'm like, Oh, I bet dude. Yeah, I'm like, like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, right? Yeah. Because my life is changed. I'm just trying to hide, you know, yeah, do my thing. So I started over. So I've been working on it. Now, my 10th year again, straight working on it, making seeds just for myself. For year to year. And yeah, that's it. And once in a while, you'll get a few in your weed if you get some. Yeah, that's fucking amazing though. I'm glad that you're still doing it. You're back in and taking charge of it. It's a passion. You know, like, at this point in my life, I'm not looking to go into business in it. I see you all the regulations, the hurdles, the money, the money to get in, even though I could get a license probably because they locked, they, you know, I had to change my whole life over it. Got locked up over it. Yeah, you know. And that's the worst feeling too, again, is when they come to your house and you're like, fuck, is that your girl room? Yeah, I bet. Yeah, that's my, you know, that's why I understand like why a lot of the people that came before me took the choice to go the corporate route. Because a lot of them had PTSD from being hit and they didn't want to be hit anymore. And they wanted some kind of safety and to do their passion. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like, I do have like, if I have to go back to a closet or a tent, yeah, I do it, you know. Yeah, right. But I don't need that much because I don't really sell it, you know, and I always have a surplus, which is nice and I give it away. So you like, are you, you're a glassblower, correct? Is that okay to talk about? Yeah, I don't really, like, I don't, it's another thing I don't get to do as much right now because I've worked a full-time job and I'm a shop steward in the union, Carpenters Union. So I, you know, the pension right now means more than to me than anything in a medical for life. You know, you get the medical for life that's like, who the hell gets medical for life? New York City Carpenters do after a certain amount of time. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, dude, yeah. Yeah, I can keep my head down, stay clean, you know, do my thing, not get in trouble. I'm all right. I only have a few more years to go do four more years and I'm out. Yeah, dude. And the medical is everything because like as a grower, a lot of people don't realize that like, aren't growers and just by weed, there's no health insurance, there's no retirement for what we do. Exactly, exactly. We die doing what we do. You know, Jerry always said, keep your day job. Right, it's true, man. And I always kind of like bust my balls on some of my friends. I would always say like, because that's all they do is grow. And I'm like, yeah, have your day job, you know, like they're not nobody, you're not contributing to Social Security. I'm going to get a pension. I got an annuity. And I hope the company that you're working for, growing weed is doing the same thing for you, you know. It's going to be it's a hard thing because there's profit there, but it's like fine line profit. Yep. It's like the state's taxing you how much of that percentage of that, you know, and yeah. And then I even said that like a couple of years ago, I said every state that comes online, the price of the product comes down. Yep. Back like two years ago, I said, weed is going to be $150 an ounce. Yeah, it's way less. Yeah. Especially in Cali, it's horrible. It's because you have so many growers. So you need such a large scale to grow, you know, and then the state's taking the tax on it, you know, and the people rather not pay the tax, they're still going to go to the underground market and get usually just as good a product or better. Yeah. And then that floods the underground market and all the prices drop there. Yeah. But some people seem to like the city. Some people for some reason still think that they can charge $400 an ounce. I don't get it. It's like. Wild. That only lasts so long. It's still lasting and I still look in and I'm like. It's going to be a lot of mad people feeling cussed when they realize you can get it for $50. It's a lot of rich clientele. Yeah. Still, you know, the businessman who goes to that business man, they don't care. They just like, here, here. I would know nothing about rich clientele. Let me tell you, I've never had. You know, like, I mean, even back in the day, I was, for a pound, I was getting it straight up $400 an ounce, $450 for the camp, $400 for the sour. Oh, yeah. And I used to have the underdog. Now, people, I guess some people say it was the headband, but I think the headband and the underdog is a little different. Oh, interesting. Can you talk about each one a little bit? Well, somebody named it headband. Joe, AJ says he named it, he named it headband. I'm like, okay. Yeah, JJ says the same thing that he named it headband. So they both claim it. Yeah. So whatever. But it was really, it was really, first of all, it was, it was one seed out of a hundred. Yeah. And that Northern Lights that I came back with from Amsterdam, I got 13 seeds from each one. It was 13 seeds. I just picked the first male. Yeah. I was like, all right. Well, I know, I was reading the book and I was like, all right, I don't want them too tall. I don't want them too short. I take the middle height. Yeah. And the early flower. I was like, oh, yeah. Okay. That's what it says in the book. I take that. I get rid of the other males. And that's the only, I was doing other strains too, but I took the Northern Lights and I crossed it into the chem. Yeah. Now, I used to call that chem lights. Yeah. I've heard that term. Okay. Because chem times lights. Yeah. It makes sense. All school naming. And but it actually be first would be, right? Isn't the male supposed to come first? It comes second in the name. All right. So chem lights, then I did name it, right? Yep. Yep. So I took that and then I grew 100 seeds out and with my friend Keith. Yeah. And the bro. No. Absolutely not. No. Wow. That dude's taking a lot of credit. No. No. Different Keith. No. Good to know. That's, that's, that's, that's, Gabe introduced me to him. Oh, okay. Introduced me. And that's Keith from Staten Island. Can I interject something real here? Do it, please. I've been busy at the Apple Store trying to. I could tell. Yeah. Sorry. I feel like I'm missing out, but I wanted to make sure this happened. But so they call me Staten Island. Yeah. And what I told them is that you should be called Staten Island because you lived there before me and after me. Yeah. All right. I got to put you back on mute. All right. So, so this is a different Keith. I want to establish that so people know. Okay. And so he's renting a hill up on like Toad Hill area, Grimes Hill, whatever. And we go, we go and we set up a room. We put in, we pop 100 seeds out of 100 seeds. I go, this, this one right here. I like this seed the best. This is the most beautiful seed. Yeah. I said, this is the number one. We were numbering everything. One through a hundred. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't know fucking about names yet, you know. Yeah. Yeah. We just started like, all right, we got this going, you know, we're doing like. We got to write something on the tag. Yeah. Exactly. So out of a hundred seeds, I remember we got 33 females. Okay. Not bad. I was like, all right. That makes sense. Yeah. 50 ratio. Out of those hundred seeds or 33 females, we should say, and we didn't keep any males. Got rid of them. There was such a diversity. Like a lot of them were northern lights looking, other things. So when Gabby and not so dog was searching for like things that looked like the chem. Yeah. I can understand what they were saying and reflect on that. I was like, yeah. Interesting. But out of the 33, 11 of them had chem light traits. Yeah. Okay. But that first seed that I planted, the number one became the underdog. Oh, diesel one. That was the most chem light, but it also like, it had chem structure, but it had something about it like it was a little bit spicy. It was nice. Yeah. It had maybe a little bit more northern lights in it or something. That's amazing. And that was around until I got in trouble. And what year was that that it would have been not around? 204. Gotcha. So not too many people were doing it. I had one friend up on the mountain doing it who gave it to somebody who took it to Colorado. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. From there, it could have got spread out. Sure. And whatever. People said they had problems with it. They couldn't keep it going. Okay. The chem is hard too when you try. Yeah. Yeah. Super hard. You know, you got to have the right temperature root zone. Absolutely. So to me, the underdog, people cross it in with the sour, but it's not that hard. Like, so I, a friend of mine gave me a cut 10 years ago when I moved here. And that's the cut that I'm working off in the column that I call underdog northern lights or, but when you backbreed it, the northern lights does come out and it's dominant in it. Sure. But that's why like now I have the chem back and I'm going to cross the chem back into it this year. So the cut that you got back recently, which one is that? Or not recently, but the 91. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. You know, I had to sell it. Hey, Mike, just, just so you know, Mike, we can get you the original dog back. What? If you want that. The what? The chem dog, not the 91. That is 91. Oh, excuse me. I thought you were saying chem D. I don't want that chem D. Yeah. What's your, what's your opinion on chem D and like in your theories on that? Okay. So here's my theory on chem D. Chem D has mutations in it. Yep. Right. Destroy it. Okay. I'm serious. Like why you keep a plant around that has problems every time I have a plant that there's something genetically wrong with the plant. I eliminate it. Yeah. Why are you destroying the gene pool? I'm a purist in that way. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's fair. I'm sorry. It's, it's euthanized. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It produces nice buddho. All right. Yeah. But don't use it for breeding. Yeah. So if you're not going to use it for breeding, then you can, what, that's my, but nobody's going to destroy it. They can keep it a record. Yeah. Right. You know, I'm the same way with certain traits too, where it's like my OCD is just so zeroed in on something like I won't pop bag seed. If I don't know what's in it and I won't, even if it's the most dank thing ever, I won't pop it because my brain can't deal with not knowing. Oh, yeah. It's weird. That's my thing. If I didn't know a seed, I'll pop it because if I have room for it, you know, because I make seeds and I can't even pop them all. Yeah. People give me seeds and I'm like, what the fuck am I going to do with these seeds? I'm the same way. Yeah. I don't want to, I don't want to be an asshole, but I accept it. And you know, when I, if anybody who's listening to this, to this, it's not that I'm trying to like think I'm a snob or anything, but I only have so many seeds I can do a year. And I'm actually, I'm actually really looking for the good male. Like you guys talked about feminized and using feminized and knowing I just like to do the pollination. Okay. I like males. I prefer males personally, even though I make them sprain stuff. I like the thing is with males, it's, it's people. Okay. Anybody can make seeds using a male. We all get that, but getting a male using it and being able to predict what he's going to do and working with him enough to being able to do that, that's, that's a skill and a talent. And it's much different than just using pollen. So the seeds that I have now, like a lot, I have, most of them are very stable. Like, I know what I'm going to get. When I pop this in one Northern Lights, when it's got some Durban in it and the sour, I'm like, I know exactly what to get. I look at it from you. I can grow 10, 20 of them and get the same exact thing. Yeah, exactly. I, I like, and I have jars of it. I'm like, I'm not growing that this year. Yeah. But you know what you're going to get. You knew what you were going to get. That's awesome. Yeah. I don't want that. Okay. But it's nice. And I like it when I come home from work. That's the first thing I usually hit. And then later I do the dog or the sour. Yeah. Have you ever tried a good blueberry sour? Um, no, I'm going to send you some and I would be open to it. I would definitely be open to it. So that's, that's an interest. And like, even my own son has given me a bunch of seeds, right? Yeah. And he's like, died. This is my Christmas present. Like, all right, that's cool. Right. That's killing it, dude. I have them up on the wall. He goes, you're going to plant them? I'm like, no, I'm going to hold them there. Well, this is essential. It's sentimental. Yeah. Sentimental. I just gave him the cut too. I just, I finally gave him the cut. That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. And you can make it generational, like that's really cool. Yeah. It is cool, but it's like you have to be careful. Yeah. Because it can lead to problems. Sure. And you don't want problems for your kids, obviously. One second. Go ahead. In a little while. Okay. In a little, in a little bit. I'm sorry. You have to edit that. No worries. No worries. I got it. I read it down. Two, four, these six. All right. We're good. All right. So where, where are we at? I'm sorry. Let's see. We're talking about male breeding, selecting males. And oh, the reason I offered the blueberry sour, it's just, it's one of those things where blueberry, some people love it or hate it. But if you get the right one with the super blueberry, blueberry jam, like strong scent and taste, it's also very medicinal. There's something to that mercy and quality that comes with it that's real special. And we found that in a blue sour punch. So yeah. I, you know, like I, I have the same problem. People give me seeds and I'm like, I'm not going to be able to ever pop these. Why? I know, I know. But you are welcome to those and you can store them forever if you want, but you're welcome. Well, everything goes into freezing now. Yeah. Yeah. It's like I've learned. And you know, I think I, I don't know, a while back, I wanted to try this root hormone thing that you were talking about or something. I never heard back from you or root pop and starting seed starting thing. It was like the way to take the shell off to seed or something. Oh, maybe, maybe. I mean, I do it manually when I do it like that, but there's also a gibrelic acid. Yeah. So I have still some like really 30 something year old seeds and I'm like, yeah. That's like tissue culture level. Yeah. That's, that's, I wouldn't even play with that. That's tissue culture level. I tried, I tried with so many like the sour northern lights that I had. I bet left over it and nothing ever came with other of them at all. Brutal, brutal. And I would do like four at a time and pray and I'd start try different things. I took sandpaper, took the soak them overnight, did a peroxide wash, whatever. I tried distilled water. Yeah, I did. Trying to keep it sterilant. Yeah, it's so hard. Sometimes they just don't have that energy to go anymore. Oh, some of them put out a little tap and that was it. If you can get it to do that, then that means gibrelic acid might work. Yeah. Well, that was now a couple of years ago, but it's been in the freezer. Yeah, that seed, that's, that's a big help, dude. Yeah. That's, they might still have that vigor just a little bit. Like four left. Oh, man. Oh, brutal. Brutal. But that's, that's, that's a seed life, dude. That's a seed man's life. But I think I still have to like a jar of like a spice jar full of NL times five from original sensei first cross. So when you get those to come. Oh yeah. You know, and if it, you know, but the first few years they weren't in the freezer and that's the problem. Yeah. You know, when you say use northern lights, which do you remember which northern lights you used as the male was at one, two, two by five, five by two thing was number five, right? You mean to cross into the chem? Yes. It's the one that we bought. No, no, no, no. It was NL times, NL, NL, NL five or one. No, no, NL one, I believe because the NL times five, that was tall, giant plant. Okay. That makes sense. NL five was all over the place. It's like a Afghani, Hawaiian, Afghani. Yeah. It's really tall. I used to get like two liters of soda bottles off it. Yeah. But it's okay, airy. We take 90 days and like fuck that plant. But that's, that's that happens to be the jar of seeds. And actually I've read the chem lights into it. So yeah, it could be better. Maybe that. Oh, I bet. But never did anything with the seeds. We have NL five from the northern lights crew. And if you ever want to run through those, you're more than welcome. It's just an open pollination of the original seed. But the NL that I used, like it had just like spicy aroma to it. And it was, it was a short plant. It only grew just like it said 170. Interesting. Yeah. Four foot, three foot wide. It was like, all right, dang fucking like if you had a roll of coins in your hand, the bud was like the weight of a roll of coins. It sounds like a one. Yeah. Yeah. Like a bud like this big, like in it for a small piece of jar would be nine grams. Jesus. Yeah. Nice. Into the time. Yeah. Hey, since I haven't been involved, can I add something here? Please do. Yeah. Weasel here. But he had nothing, nothing to talk about. He's like, yeah, right? Like, this is gonna be really short, like 15, 20 minutes. Like, I don't know what I'm gonna say. It's like an hour and an hour. I think we're hour and a half later. And this guy No, it's 52 minutes. Okay, he hasn't even begun to tell you all the stories you can tell. I know this is gonna be like a multi episode. We're gonna have to record at least three more to get like, you know, anywhere near what needs to be said. I hope so. And you know what, like interviewing clop right now. I don't think anybody who's like, I'm not that good of an interviewer, but your ability to speak right now, you're so much more eloquent and on the ball. I don't know if they just didn't ask you the right questions or what it was, dude. It's really good right now. So yeah, I appreciate it. I haven't had a chance since I had a chance to tell everybody else. I haven't had a chance to tell Mike how much I love and miss him. I was just in New York and I didn't get to see him. Yeah. Lady and kid got sick on the day that we were supposed to see him and I haven't seen him in years. He might have got some seeds. He might have got some seeds if he showed up. If I showed up, I wouldn't have hooked up. My family was so sick. Trust me. You didn't want me coming over. No, I know. They were like, so it just means we got to see you again soon. Yeah, he's a bummer. But I got that. You know, I just hung out with Keith and Ross the other night last week. Oh, it's like, yeah. Yeah, Gabby, this camera makes you look way better, dude. I don't know if it's the same camera, but you can't see you in the car in your face and you're much more handsome up close than you're far away. You just really can't see it. You sure about that? No, for sure. For real. It's weird. Look at this cool background that I got. Oh, is your Steve Jobs himself? Yeah, he had more hair than I did, I think. Yeah. You know, how long did they make you wait in the Apple store today? I've been here since five-tenths. Yeah. But the issues really were mine. I won't get into it. Yeah, that sucks. Which phone are you using? I'm getting the 14 Pro Max. Ooh, that's a good one. Yeah, I'm getting the new one. I take so many photos. Yeah. I have the terabyte model and it's completely filled with video. I bet. I got completely filled. I have to delete stuff every day to take more videos. You don't use iCloud? I do, but my iCloud is full also because they only give you one terabyte. Why another one? I filled it up. Come on, Daddy Warbucks. They don't let you. Yeah, they don't let you expand it. Yeah, I like Dropbox. They don't care. I use that too. Dropbox is good. My wife likes that. Get all the photos sent to us. Yeah. Google Drives let me upload like crazy, crazy amounts of terabytes of video. Have you tried that? Yeah, I have them all. I use all the services. Since I'm sitting here waiting for a minute, I want to make sure that in this podcast, I said it in other ones, I want to say in this podcast that Flop here was the first person that I ever saw grow indoor. When he did that, I stopped being a gypsy. That was time for me to get a place and be more like Klopp. You know, I might have given him a little bit of inspiration by showing him some indoor flower, but he inspired me to go get an apartment. You know what happened with me? That's why he's such a critical part of the story. I went to reverse, I met him, and I winded up going on tour. You became a gypsy. You ripped off on the opposite way. Here I am working a full-time job. Hey, man, let's go on tour. That's awesome though. Yeah. Let's see what we've got. As far as genetics questions, we've touched on, well, the headband. I don't think we covered headband of what your theory was on that or opinions. I'm not sure because did somebody take a strain and rename it or did they pop a seed? Yeah. Yeah. So that wasn't from your, you know, it wasn't something you named from your story. Joe AJ says headband. Because he's, oh, it made me sweat up here. I'm like, okay, fine. Yeah. That's cool. AJ, and I'm going to say something. AJ really is the one that has promoted to salad. Yes, he is. He is a man who has marketed around the world. Yes, definitely, for sure. I met him in Central Park. He was with a girl and he was like, I don't know, he was like 17. Yeah. Yeah. He had the silver haze, you know. Oh, did he? Yeah. That's a good, I mean, that's a great line. Back then it would have been silver pearl by haze, I think. Yes, that's exactly. Silver pearl. That's good shit, man. Yeah, it was nice, you know. It was nice. I'm a fan of silver pearl. We still run it and an old cut and it's fire. I love it. Squat, little indica. See, how do you, how much weed do you smoke a day? I want too much. Way too much. I don't have the time to smoke as much as I want. I shouldn't have the time, but I do anyways. And it just, it fucks my days up when I do it though. Yeah. It fucks, like, everybody, not everybody, but I would say the majority of the guys that I work with smoke weed, okay? Yeah. They sneak out, they smoke weed during their break time, whatever. New York City is built on weeds, booze and pills. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of the construction work is smoke weed. They're panning it, they're even panning it on the job sometimes. And pain, that's big in pain, yeah. Yeah, the guys, a lot of guys have medical cards, but I don't smoke at work. Yeah. Because I'm the shop's do it. Yeah, you kind of can't. No, I can't. I can't. I can't take a gift. I can't take shit. Absolutely. So I come home, yep, first thing. Yeah. You know, dinner time, first thing after. Four bed, okay. What do I get? Three joints at the most? You know, you know why I started smoking a lot? As I got older, once I hit about 30, I say older, once I hit 35, right? Once I hit 35, like my inner hormones, my brain chemistry changed. Yeah. And everything seemed too strong. Everything. And I was getting paranoia every time. So the way I had to beat it was to constantly smoke and then I never got paranoia again. But I also was downside was I lost a lot of my ability to feel different highs, you know? Right. Yeah. Right. If you smoke all day long, do you get high? No, no, it just barely takes the edge off. That's it. So waiting from when I come home to smoke is that's when I get high. But then now I got to watch it, that I don't get too high. Yeah, for sure. I'm gonna greet two young men in about a half hour. Yeah, right? So yeah. And I don't want to be, you know, said that, like, dad, you okay? Exactly. Yeah, you gotta keep your shit together. And some of this weed can make you drool, dude. Like some of dabs can seriously put you out. I think they have an anklin of knowing because they're like, Hey, what's that smell again? Yeah, I bet they do. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I don't know. It's your brother, Emil. They've got a little depredator. Well, we got you here. It's already 10 p.m. over there. And I think that we could do a several part thing out of this. I definitely think we need to do that. Yeah, I'm down. Actually, not at the Apple store. Although I said I looked like Hanson will. You do. I have to get up at 3.30. Yeah. Oh my god. My time. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah. I start, you know, but I start working six. Okay. I'm home by 2.30. You fucking still working. Yep. Yeah, I'm still working. We can do one then. We can do an early one. Yeah, yeah. We'll do it anytime it's good for you. You still got to work. I'm done. Yeah. Remember, union. Union, baby. That's right. Well, yeah. Anytime you want to do another one, dude. Anytime you want to do it. If it's earlier, later, it doesn't matter to me. I'll make time. No, this is fine. This is fine. I could do like Saturday nights, you know. Saturday's great. We'll do Saturday night. Damn, Saturday definitely doesn't work for me. Yeah. Okay. We can do whatever they can. We can do it. We can, Gabby and I will do it. Talk and then let me know. All right. All right. Thank you so much for your time. Both of you, Gabby. Thank you, dude. Thank you. Of course. Thank you. Bye, buddy. Bye, buddy. Talk to you soon. Yep. Please.