 So let's get this show started, and we'll do that by welcoming a familiar friend of the Agile movement and also of Agile People Sweden. He's a writer, entrepreneur, leader, trainer, and much, much, much, much, much more, and he's spent a career in pioneering management. He's here to talk about scaling agility, and he's Jörgen Appelo. Please welcome. There we go. While we get your computer set up, you, and there's a lot of things going on here, but we'll manage that. You keep coming back to Agile People Sweden. People can't get rid of me. And it's not that we don't want it, so rather the opposite. Why do you come back? Because you travel the globe to different places. Because Pia always asks me so nicely. It's good to have nice friends. Yes, exactly. I don't want to disappoint her. No, it's an important topic. We have Agile leadership, Agile marketing, Agile management, Agile people, HR, etc. Lots of Agile stuff going on. And let me help you here, because it's Windows after all, so you have to restart it. All right, but I'll probably just leave the stage to you. It's a lot of things going on in the Agile world, and I'm happy to be part of it. It's awesome. All right, and in one word, if you would summarize the change from the first Agile People Sweden, you attended to now. Agile? That's a good proof. All right, I'll leave the floor to you. All right, thanks. So, all right, where's my glass of water? Over here. I saw when I came here that we're on a ship, and I thought, oh my God, I'll have to make sure everyone laughs at my jokes evenly, or else we might capsize, things like that. And when I entered the ship, everything here is self-organized, and I thought, oh my God, there's usually organizers saying, we were too lazy to arrange everything for you, do it yourself. But not in this case. I think it's well organized actually so far. Happy to see that not everything is left to us. This word, Agile, it comes up again and again. Let me start with the ugliest slide that I have to get that out of the way. I stole it from the State of Agile report by version one. They do this report every year, and they measure among many other things what are the challenges that people experience with agility around the world. And the ones that stand out to me are these. The company philosophy and culture are at odds with agile values. The culture is not what we need in a company that wants to be more agile. And also there is a resistance to change with these adoption of these new ideas. How many of you recognize that? That people resist agile thinking, resist the agile mindset. Alright, look at that. Lots of hands going up. Alright, so people resist change. This comes up again and again. No matter where I go. I find that interesting. How many of you have resisted this change? Smartphones. One, two, three, or four maybe. Alright, keep it up. You're the heroes here. Don't give up. Dig yourself in. How many of you have resisted this change? Games on tablets or phones or Facebook or whatever. Oh, that's a pretty good number. That is one-third of the audience. Okay, so now a very gameful culture we have here. We'll talk about that in a moment. How many of you have resisted this change? Streaming audio and video, Spotify, Netflix, iTunes, etc. How many of you are not using any streaming entertainment? Alright, one, two, three, four people similar to smartphones. Okay, so people resist change? Seriously? You kidding me? I think anyone who says that people resist change is... Sorry, no, I don't mean incompetent. I mean incognizant. People do not realize what it is that makes others change their behaviors, adopt new ideas. Because there's plenty of change going on around us and we happily buy into those changes except for people. So everyone's agility of scale, but nobody knows how to do it. That is sort of my conclusion from my travels around the world. I did a bit of digging around earlier this year into the trends in workplaces. This is particularly interesting for the Agile people, Agile HR participants here. I read the report by Boston Consulting Group and Accenture and Deloitte and all those others, Price Warhouse Coopers. They all have their research globally among HR and management, etc. And this is what I found as the conclusions, the patterns across all those reports. I'm not going to read them out to you. I'm sure you'll be able to download the slide deck later on. But this is what I found interesting. Organizational Agility was specifically mentioned by basically all of them. CEOs, top managers, HR, they want the organization to be more agile. It is a hot topic. 93% of CEOs said that organizational agility was top of mind at that level. That's great. But how do we achieve it? That's a big challenge. How do we get that change in the organization? Let me show you some interesting clips that I found. Anyone remember this? I don't hear the sounds. We didn't switch the sound. Sorry about that. Let's try again. Now it's stuck. Jesus Christ. Come on. I can transform myself as I want to. Look. And then he says, Barbatruck. Right. So this was Barba Papa. Was Barba Papa popular in Sweden? Yes. Was popular in Holland as well. It turns out it was a French cartoon. I never knew that because it was all translated, of course, for the children. But Barba Papa could change into any form. That was so awesome. He could escape from a fence through a fence in the zoo where he was captured. Here's another one that is probably more familiar to some of you. Anyone remember him? Otto from? Which one? Right. This person. Which species? The changelings. Right. And they were part of the Great Link and the Dominion. Wow. We have an expert in the room. So, yeah, the changelings. They were a nasty species. They were not so friendly. They wanted all the other species in the galaxy basically to look up to them and admire them. Otherwise they would blast their planets out of the galaxy. Sort of a United States in space. I'm sorry about that. But Otto was a nice one. He was a security agent at the space station. He was always after quark because quark was always smuggling things. And then it is handy when you can disguise as a chair or disguise as a dog. This one, I'm sure, is familiar to many of you. Who was that? Terminator. Which one? Model number? T-1000. All right. It's awesome. So, the T-1000 was a self-organizing, was a shape-shifting entity that could adopt any form. At one moment it was solid as steel and punching someone through the face. That was a ghastly scene. I don't know if you remember that. And then other moments he was dripping from the ceiling behind someone's back. Oh, that was scary. So all of these are examples of shape-shifters. Here's another one, Mystique from X-Man. She gets paid $20 million for walking around naked. Isn't that unfair? I get nothing. I can tell you that. But anyways, so these are all shape-shifts. I like that metaphor of shape-shifting because this is about beings who adapt to the environment and sometimes they're solid, sometimes they're liquid, sometimes they're square, sometimes they're circles. It depends on the environment. So in the 21st century, I think successful organizations need to be hard and soft, fast and slow, solid and liquid, and organized and self-organized. For me, that is what agility is about. So I like this term shape-shifters. Sometimes other people use more difficult terms such as ambidextrous organizations. That means right-handed and left-handed, innovative and productive. It's a nice metaphor, but not thought up by someone who knows about marketing, obviously. So shape-shifter is, I think, a nicer term. Scaling to change. Does anyone know about this problem? I'm sure you picked it up somewhere from the news. Yeah, the British leaving the European Union. I thought it was funny. It's strange, actually. They said that the politicians at that time said, we want to take back our autonomy. Remember that? They want to take back their autonomy. Did they ask any of you here in the room if it was okay? They didn't ask me for my position, for permission. They just went. They said, okay, we're out. Bye! So if you can single-handedly decide to take back your autonomy, then you've never lost it, have you? You already had it in the first place. You didn't ask somebody else, can I get it back? No, you just, okay, bye. So that's interesting. They never lost the autonomy. I think that's a good thing, by the way, that people can just take back autonomy when they decide. Though the British, I think, and many seem to agree, have not made a good decision there, because some decisions are better when you make them in a central location. It is more efficient. It is smarter to do some things at the European level. Like I came here by air and by pilots. It is useful to know that air traffic rules are consistent across the European continent. That makes sense. If you fly across seven countries in three hours, then it is all the same, the same rules. So it makes sense to have something centralized. And I delegate my autonomy, my decision-making to other people all the time. Like I have a personal assistant who books my hotels and my flights. The furniture in our house is bought by my spouse. I have absolutely no idea what is the difference between our Deco, our Nouveau, our Dono, whatever. I just know it is all equally expensive. I can see that on the bank account. Other things I do not delegate, because I want to make those decisions, like which streaming technologies we use in our house, for example. I think that is very, very important. We use Google Chromecast. We use Spotify Connect. We use Sonos. We use everything basically. I think that is a very important decision. So not delegating that. So it depends what I want to delegate and what not. So I trust sometimes that other people make better decisions than I do. I also have no capacity to do everything myself. Like I said, oh my God, I have become self-organized here. Oh my God, I have to do everything myself. Thank God, no. Some things are organized well by Pia Maria and everyone else here. There is such a thing, by the way, as a decision fatigue. People get tired of making decisions about everything. We want others to take control in some areas. But, and this is what is good about the British thing, we have the power to change any arrangement, or we should. We should be able to say, all right, that's it. Now I'm going to do it myself. Like I am able to say to my Pia, thank you so much for two years. It was wonderful working together. Next month I will do it myself again. And I have that power. And for me it is important, number four, to be able to do this rapidly to make that change. Like Barbara Papa or the T1000 or Odo can change any form and can do so rapidly. That is the issue with the British now, right? Because leaving is a very, very, very painful affair. And I'm sure you can bet on it that they will be back after a while. Because it is too annoying to be on your own. I'm quite sure of it. And then there's even more work. So it is balancing. And some people might recognize these numbers from my management career, my agile leadership, agile management brand. There's still much happening on this side of the scale. Command and control. I agree. Too much. Too much in many organizations. Too much bureaucracy, too much rules imposed on people. And that is why there is this pendulum swings in the other direction for many. That we have more self-organizing teams, which is good. We have people make their own decisions, be empowered. But frankly speaking, I'm in a lot of agile conferences on gatherings, et cetera. And sometimes I get the idea that the ideal organization is one happy crowd of 30,000 people self-organizing and dog-foting hippies. And I think that is not what agile is. For me, this is agility. Being able to change back and forth. Being able to switch depending on context. Sometimes you need to give instructions. Sometimes you need to self-organize and dog-fote as a team. Switching back and forth, that is, I think, what agility is all about. I prefer to call that self-balanced instead of self-organized. And that is something that we need to do and need to learn more about. So let's look at why people change things. Because we've seen everyone wants agility at scale. We now know that agility is balancing the powers that be and taking back control when you want, but you don't want that all the time. Sometimes you're quite happy with somebody else making decisions for everyone. Now, how do we introduce such ideas in the organization? I was last year, I had my own book, Out Managing for Happiness. Not as awesome as Pia Maria's new book, Agile People, of course. But I was promoting it in the U.S. When will you have your U.S. tour at Pia Maria? Is it upcoming? We're going to arrange it for you. So I had managed my own tour over there, and I was in New York, I remember well, at Union Square in the evening, mining my own business, reading a book or something on a park bench. And there were lots of people around me from all over the world, New York, of course. Languages, body types and colors and hairstyles, etc. But everyone was playing this game. Pokemon. And people were walking around with their smartphones, except for four people in this room, of course. And everyone was hunting for monsters and talking with each other, complete strangers. And then, oh my God, a Snorlax appeared. Run! And then everyone was hunting for the Snorlax, because it would be gone in 10 minutes. And I was sitting there on that park bench and I thought, what the hell is going on? I had never seen something like that before. It was completely ridiculous. And I also had a little bit of pity on myself, because I thought me and others, such as many people in the room, are trying so hard to get people to be more agile in companies. And we're trying to convince 500 people to adopt Scrum or whatever it is, and it's so difficult and it takes years. And then within three weeks, millions of people play Pokemon Go. It's just not fair. I said there, I was feeling very depressed. How do they do that? My God. So this is... But this inspired me at that moment. I thought I need to understand more about why they do this much more effectively than I do with my ideas. How can they get away with this so rapidly? And I realized that many of the... many times we introduce new ideas, we have a quite traditional approach. Like, starting next week, thou shalt be doing Scrum. And these are the rules of Scrum on the clay tablets, right? And rule number one, thou shalt honor thy product owner and Scrum master. And rule number two, thou shalt not kill thy customer. Et cetera, et cetera. And these kinds of change programs, they don't stick that very well. They don't work that well. I'm a runner nowadays. The first time I ran was in Stockholm. Do you remember that? We had a manager 3.0 workshop. And the first time I decided I'm going to go running. So I ran for seven kilometers here around Stockholm. I was in so much pain, it was unbelievable. I had to recover for one and a half week. I had no... I never knew existed in my body. So I decided I have to start all over and learn how to do this better. So I started reading about running. I read a good number of books. Some of them very useful. Some of them not so much. But this one stood out because of the following approach that it had. It had instructions like these. Page after page after page after. Page of phases and stages and instructions and et cetera. Like in the third week of the second phase on Tuesday you run 10 kilometers and on the Wednesday you have a break and on Thursday you do a fast run of 7 kilometers. Oh my God. I went through it. I flipped through the book. I got demotivated. I was, my God, how can people do this? I got depressed. I needed a drink. It's no surprise that the author's name is Jack Daniels because I think they sell more whiskey with this book. But isn't this what most agile transformations are like? Thou shalt be doing this in that week, et cetera, et cetera. So now we need a more gameful approach, I think. I like this book by Jane McConagall. She said all the neurological and physiological systems that underlie happiness are fully activated by gameplay. Games make us happy, basically. That's what she said. So we have to figure out what it is that people do in games, in Pokémon and others. That makes them happy. So let's have a look. This is a game. World of Warcraft. People play on average 22 hours per week. World of Warcraft. And this is what they do. They go around and find things and collect artifacts and practice and they join a team and talk about projects and assign roles and then new project starts. A scrum project, perhaps. One iteration after the other. And then, boom, there goes the scrum master. A difficult scrum team. And more iterations and more product development. Ultimately, after a while, we have something to show to the customer so we go to the customer. He says, You're too late, old friend. No, no more, girls. Difficult. Just you and me. But then the customer says, I challenge you to Makora. You get a new project. That's what people do in games. It's just a lot of work. Jane says in her book, Game developers know better than anyone else how to inspire extreme effort and reward hard work. The silly thing is, we game players pay them, the designers, to give us that work and then we do the work and we ask them for more. For more work. Imagine how that happens in organizations. Then people pay us and still we don't want to do the work. Because it's no fun. So gamification is the application of game elements and principles in non-game contexts to improve engagement, organization or productivity. You see that, et cetera, et cetera. And gamification is different just to be clear from serious games. Because in my management, there is also some serious games such as delegation poker and stuff like that. That's awesome stuff, serious games, but that is playing a game in order to learn something about an organizational context. Gamification is doing your actual work. But then doing it in such a way that you recognize some gaming tricks so that it actually becomes fun. I'll give you some examples. This is a trick called don't break the chain or extending the streak. I just learned this weekend that it exists in Snapchat. My daughter showed me. Because the longer they Snapchat with each other, those kids, the longer the streak becomes. And they have to extend this streak for as long as possible. The longest one is 900 days or something like that, she told me. Seinfeld, the comedian in the US community had something similar. He had a calendar or he ticked off on the calendar if he had made any good jokes that day. And he had to extend the streak. Don't break the chain for as long as possible. Write comedy jokes every day. It works marvelously with children when you want them to do something every day like brush their teeth. You give them a calendar. You give them a box of stickers and you tell them you can take a sticker out of the box and put it on the calendar only when you brush your teeth. Wonders. So that's a gamification example. Now some people have not so smart approaches to gamification. I was at an event a year ago or something and someone told me yeah, we gamify the people who work in our stores. It was a Dutch telco provider and they said we want to incentivize people to give feedback to each other. That's a good idea. Good idea. 360 degree feedback among the employees. So they gave them a game on their phones and the game gave people points when they gave feedback to each other in the store. So for example if I think that you could have smiled more to the customer and I tell you that through the app, kaching, I get a point. And then you tell him perhaps that you could have walked faster to that customer. Kaching, you get a point. Isn't that amazing? So at the end of the session I asked the speaker so what is the whole goal here? What is it that they're trying to do with the app? And he said well to be at the top of the leaderboard with the most points. And I asked him but what's the point of having the most points? Well, to be at the top of the leaderboard. Okay, so we're not going anywhere clearly. And I asked and by the way who is participating in this points giving thing with feedback. Is management also participating in this? He said no, no, management does not participate in this. Management just looks at the data and then the leaderboards. And I was like oh my God. I had a Jean-Luc Picard moment in that time. So there's this complicated looking but awesome model by Yukai Chu called Oxalizes. He analyzed lots of games. He's one of the world's leaders in gamification, thought leaders. And he has an eight point model that looks suspiciously close to my champ frogs model. Very similar. Same things are on there. Only has a nice 2D representation of it. And basically what I just told you is this corner of the diagram. Status points, achievement symbols, leaderboards, progress bars. Yes, that motivates some people because people like accomplishment. They want to see that they have accomplished something. They want to see progress. But it is only one eighth of this whole model. There's lots more that you can do that is called gamification and has nothing to do with giving people points. But also the point that Yukai Chu was making with his book, it says that many people mistake gamification for points. Oh, let's gamify it. We'll give people points. It is such a poor interpretation of gamification. Let me give you another example. Someone told me, Jürgen, we have Kudo cards in the organization. Thank you notes, handwritten notes that people give to each other. And it works quite well in many companies. But in some organizations, it just doesn't work. The culture resists it somehow. And so she asked me, how can I increase the number of Kudos that people give each other because the only Kudo card I received was the one I wrote for myself. So I said, well, I know from this book, I learned a trick called magnetic caps. I gave an example in that book of a person who asked for people's hobbies on a web form and it was a limitless form, endless number of hobbies you could offer and then on average, people typed two hobbies, writing, speaking, submit. And then he thought, what happens if I limit the size of the text box and make it three small text boxes? And then it turned out that people used all three text boxes, writing, speaking, traveling, submit. The response rate just gone up by 50% by reducing the size of that field on the form. And this is an example of a magnetic cap which is this area of the diagram, scarcity, by making something available less than people wanted more. Scientists have proven this with cookie jars, very simple, same cookies, similar types of jars. If there's this amount of cookies here and this amount of cookies there, most people want those cookies. Because there are only a few cookies left, right? So there must be something about those cookies. They are rare. So they go for those cookies except for the last one because that would be impolite. So Swedish people don't do that. Only Dutch people would take the last cookie. Am I right, Ben? Of course, yes. Ben and I would fight over the last cookie, I could tell you. Because it's the best one. But, yeah, so by making an artificial cap, you make it magnetic so that the response rate goes up. I told a person I would make a limited number of CUDA cards available. Give every person in the company only three cards. It's useless paper. It doesn't matter. Three cards. They become very special. Those are the only three cards you get this week. I'm sure you would see the response rate go up. Another example, someone said to me, Johan, we have this Friday afternoon a drink at four o'clock. Fika, it might be here in Sweden. And everyone says it's important to hang out with your friends and coworkers at the office. But very few people show up. The only ones to show up are basically the agile coaches because they have nothing to do. So how can we increase the number of people that come to the Friday afternoon Fika thing? I said, well, if I was there, I would be taking a silly selfie with the people who show up at four o'clock and make the selfie as silly as possible. And we're going to print the selfie and put it in the kitchen or on the coffee machine, whatever, somewhere. Everyone can see it. And every Friday, we take a silly selfie. They become sillier all the time. And then when people see those silly selfies, they become interested, curious, and they might have suggestions on how to take the selfie even sillier next time. But then they will have to be there to take the selfie. And after five or 10 of those selfies, you will see some people are never on the selfie. The social pressure will start to increase. Why are you never there? You're always missing. Oh, okay, I'll be there this Friday then. So that's social influence. Bragg buttons, social prods, everything that you use in the social space as a gamification technique. I have another silly example from my own experience a long time ago. When I was 10 years old, there was this four-day swimming challenge in my town. It meant that all the kids of several schools went to the swimming pool, local swimming pool, on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Wednesday, and did 20 laps every night. And it was not an Olympic-sized swimming pool, but it felt like Olympic-sized swimming pool. Okay, trust me, I was 10 years old. Forgive me for that. So it was quite challenging. So I did 20 laps, 20 laps, 20 laps, 20 laps, and on Thursday I took my medal and I went home. Next year I was 11, I participated again. I did 20 laps on Monday, 20 on Tuesday, 20 on Wednesday, and on Thursday I was so tired. I was so tired and the swimming pool, for some reason it got twice as large. It was much larger than the day before. And I already figured out by that time that everyone had to do their own counting because there were no teachers and whatever they were not looking, they were in the bar basically drinking and look, is there nobody drowning? All right, fine. They probably just had read Jack Daniel's running book or something. So they were having drinks and we had to count ourselves. So after 16 laps I looked around me, nobody was watching. Okay, whatever, I get out of the pool. I'm drowning here. So I took a shower, I dressed, I took a medal, and I went home. And I felt so ashamed of myself that I took that medal for something that I had not earned because I did not do the 20 laps. It was burning in my backpack. I remember that. So I didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell my parents, my friends, nobody. Next year I participated again in the four-day swimming challenge show. On Monday I did 20 laps, Tuesday 20 laps, Wednesday 20. On Thursday I did 24. Kid, you're not. So I earned the medal of that year and also finally I earned the medal from the previous year. And I felt better about myself. I still didn't tell anyone until 20 years later when somehow this memory surfaced. And so what part of the model would that be? Well, I think it would be here to give something meaning. Be your own hero. Values and storytelling, everything is here. It's a very positive kind of motivator. I think sometimes these extrinsic motivators can bring out the best in people. So it's not always bad. Don't give badges, don't give points, don't give rewards. No, sometimes this brings out the best in a person. I had to teach myself integrity and I did that with that stupid, worthless piece of metal that I took from a box. So where is the adventure and fun and organizational change? I think it is often missing. I don't see it that often when new ideas are being introduced. And there are awesome ideas whether it is Scrum or Manjithriya or Sochocracy Thriya or whatever. Full of great ideas. But the way we bring those ideas to people we could do better, I think. So what are the celebrations for achieving new skill levels? What are the monsters that we can hunt in organizations with our smartphones? I don't think we need more frameworks. We need more fun and fireworks in companies. That's what I'm after. So, last five minutes. How do people change? As I said, I started running. I did two times, 16 kilometers this weekend. I'm still recovering. Three times a week, 42 in total. But that's not how I started. I had to build up to this point. And I learned about the habit cycle. It is mentioned in several books, basically the same circle again and again. Trigger action reward. If you learn how to tweak yourself to follow this pattern, it's much more successful at introducing new habits for yourself and for your team. It starts with a trigger. The environment influences us. Or as sociologist Kurt Lewin said, the behavior of a person is a function of the person and his or her environment. We can use this to our advantage, the environment. So, for example, someone wrote, if you want to learn how to play a guitar, place the guitar next to your favorite chair. So when you make a coffee and you sit in your favorite chair, you're like, hey, a guitar. Let's play a little bit. Make it as easy as possible. So trigger, make the environment trigger your behaviors. In one of the running books, one of them wrote, place your running shoes next to your bed. So that when you get out of bed, ta-da, you're in your shoes already. So the only thing you have to do is get out or maybe put on a trunk as well, right? Might be safe or sweet or not so much. It doesn't matter here, I think. But rest of Europe, I'm sure. So, yeah, tweak the environment. Make sure that the environment triggers you. So, for example, if it is hard to get people to do retrospectives because you're sending people to another room where they normally are not, that is a change that is too difficult. Maybe you should start this habit near the coffee machine where people are already convening every day. That makes it easier. So let's use the environment to our advantage. See how it can trigger you. The second part is tiny habits. Reduce the habit to the smallest possible thing. One thing I picked up in one of those running books, one of the authors said, when you put on those shoes, just walk around the house. For the first week, just walk around the house. Because the idea is you get used to wearing those shoes and hopefully the short and trunk shirt. So this is not about running 12 kilometers the first week. No, it's building up a habit. You will get there with 12 kilometers later on. Reduce it to the smallest possible thing. So maybe the first retrospectives are just five-minute chats near the coffee machine. So what do you think we could do better this week? I think this or that sucks. Another sip. That's a retro that you're having right there, right? It's a mini, mini retro. That's where it starts. And then the next part, the last part is convenience and enjoyment. It has to end with a reward. If the habit cycle does not end with a reward, you're not going to start it again. Or it is much less likely. So it has to feel rewarding. Now some changes come easy to us because they are immediately rewarding. Like I switched to using Uber because the very first time it was already rewarding. I did not need cash and the taxi is going to pick me up instead of me having to find them somewhere in the city. That's convenient. So immediate reward. Same with streaming platforms, et cetera. Reward is immediate. But what about running? There's no reward. It's just annoying. That first run. It's annoying for months. It takes a while for you to feel great the rest of the day because you did 10 kilometers. But that's not the first cycle. So that's where the gamification comes in, right? You have to reward yourself. You have to find a placeholder reward and enjoyment. Like in the beginning, I had this rule, if I did a run, then on that day I could have a chocolate. I earned a chocolate and I live in Brussels. So there's plenty of chocolate to go around where I come from. So I had to trick myself with these kinds of little rules. Give myself a sticker on my calendar. Rules like I have to do this three times and I have a streak. Don't break the chain as long as a week after week after week. I have to run at least three times a week and the run counts until Sunday night. If I leave five minutes before midnight, it still counts as a run for that week. So I have very strict rules like that. And I have to end where I started. That's another rule. So I cannot only run downhill. That's not allowed. I have to end where I started. It's another rule. I make rules for myself all the time. So you start with the trigger, then you have a smallest possible habit and somehow you have to reward yourself until the real reward of the entire practice kicks in. But depending on the kind of practice it takes a while. So where are the many small rewards we make for small step progress in organizations? Don't tell people to do scrum entirely by the book next week because maybe that might not help. Maybe just start with a stand-up in the morning. That's okay. It's okay. Don't call it scrum. If you only do a walk around the house, that's not a marathon. Don't tell, hey, I just did a marathon. One kilometer walk. No. You're preparing for a marathon. So if you're only doing stand-up, it's not scrum. You're preparing to do scrum. Make rules for yourself. Don't make rules for other people. Figure out how these things become habits. And that is how we change our behaviors. So recap. Everyone wants agility at scale, but nobody knows how to change. It is very, very hard. Dealing with changing goals, organizations have to be shape-shifters. I think that metaphor is much better than others that are going around. I think agility means self-balance, not self-organized. So it depends on context. Sometimes we want self-organization. Sometimes we want somebody to take charge. If the ship is sinking, we're not going to dot vote about who is going to leave the ship first. We're going to rely on the captain and the captain gives instructions. That's what captains are taught to do. And the captain will go last and public speakers go first. That's the rule. We don't need frameworks. We need fun and fireworks in organizations. And don't make it a rule. Make it a habit. And for those of you who just woke up, I have everything in one big slide that tells you how agility scales a large organization. And that's this one. So just take a picture of this and come forget everything else that I just said. So thank you very much for listening. And I hope you have a wonderful day. All right. My mic is on. Perfect. So thanks a lot, Jürgen. Thank you, too. I was looking at the model. We're just off to coffee break, but I had a lot of questions popping while listening to you. The model that you showed. By Yuka Chu? The A's? Yes, exactly. Yeah. How many of those can you sort of work on in parallel? So if you're sitting here, you're a manager or an HR leader? Oh, he has lots of diagrams in that book where he shows that tools such as Facebook, social network, they basically touch upon all the corners. So you can do everything in parallel, but you have to focus on one thing at a time. I'm quite sure. But the really good products and changes, they focus on multiple corners of that diagram. So you do not only motivate people with rewards, you also motivate them with a social dimension. You also motivate them with some scarcity. You also give some meaning, et cetera. So touch upon multiple points. So you just share it, pick and see? Yes. Is there any area which is more, the easier one to go for if you're... The easiest ones are at the bottom. All right. But those are the negative ones. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you don't want to do that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are useful. The better ones are at the top, but they're more difficult. That is the positive, the meaningfulness, et cetera. That's why they're at the top because they're positive. The negative ones like scarcity and the fear of missing... Fear is a useful motivator for people. The fear of missing out is often used by marketers. But that you can do without basically doing much else. So if you have an after-work, you can limit... Only half the company can jump in. Right. Okay. So thanks a lot. Thank you too. You will be able to ask questions during the panel because... I will be walking around. Yeah. And there's a panel. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. Wow. Another present. This is for the house, for Raul. Oh, wonderful. And this is for you. Chocolate. Chocolate. Ta-da. Lots of running. Amazing. Thank you. Lots of running. I have more running to do. I can see that. All right. Thank you, Jürgen.