 Thank you so much. You talked about gamification, that's very important, very interesting, and also the methods to increase engagement from different workers and create a new working model. I personally found it very, very interesting. So to develop this concept more right now, let's give them a round of warm-up calls. Let's welcome today's our panelist on the stage. Digital Minister of Taiwan, Audrey Chang, and Eva Chang, CEO of Trend Micro. Alright, so I will only have 20 minutes with you two, and then the next 25 minutes will be Q&A sessions for everyone who has a personal, not personal, working, sorry. Questions for Audrey or Eva, can you slide out to raise your questions, and then Audrey and Eva will personally answer your questions. Alright, so first, let's dig more into the concept and the actual force of DevOps. I understand it has its challenges, its opportunities, and Trend Micro uses it very, very well. In terms of specific details, Eva, can you share some of the stellar experience or stellar team that you've observed? Okay, actually, that of the most important thing is that you need to have quick response and correct response to customer requests. That's the most important spirit. But no matter what platform, what technology we use, that's the end goal you want to achieve. I think in the past one year that Trend Micro went through this journey of, we transform ourselves from a software release. Usually software companies, we have an 18 months release cycle, you will finish one version, you throw it over to the sales people and then, bye bye, the developer don't know what's going on in the past cycle. This year, we really embraced this DevOps and a lot of our products, including our TrendX engine, which is using AI in real time, we can know which file from customers environment is possible causing damage. Or we have this very famous virus buster check, which is in Taiwan we call it on that diet. Thank you, Audrey, for helping that group and posting the recommendation. Business Weekly. Just Business Weekly. Just that. So those are the important things that we learned that using DevOps, you can get closer to customer and respond and in our cybersecurity business, most important thing is timely protection for our customers. Audrey, from your response, I can tell that you're very aware of this DevOps concept and method, right? I used to be an HL couch. And then did you, did you see their work, their hard work in putting all this into applications throughout the past years? Yeah, definitely. I think the intrapreneurship, right, the kind of work that I'm doing within the cabinets, as well as the virus buster team was doing within Trend Micro has the same spirits, right? There's a more team of people recognize a new emerging need. People understand this is not just about spam and virus in emails but also in end to end encrypted channels such as line, which is also popular in Japan, right? Without sacrificing security or privacy, we discovered the need that if people respond to the misinformation, the conspiracy theory, the scams and so on, through volunteer participation, this is what we call everyone's business with everyone's help. And so this collective intelligence informed our response strategy and pivoted into a pretty good product, the virus buster in Trend Micro's case. I see. Yes, I'm sorry. Eva, go ahead. I'm also the thing, so I understand. Our question is that what is the challenge of devil process, right? And even within our company, we are a private company and we should be able to control everything, but the biggest challenge is data silence. Carmen has their own data and it's very hard to connect with this data. But I imagine that in government agency, this bureaucracy and why they are like, oh, how did you overcome that? And for instance, the mask, within such a short time, you come up with the mask map and how did you do that? How did you break that silence? That's right. So a very, very interesting approach that we take is so called open government approach. In Mandarin, you call it Kaimen Zao Ju, which is very difficult to translate to build a car behind open doors, maybe. The idea is not to connect those silos arbitrarily, but rather ask those silos, is there a way for you to publish the data as soon as you collect the data to the open? So instead of silos exchanging data behind closed doors, they actually exchange data behind open doors. But in terms of the mask availability, for example, is the individual pharmacies agreeing to publish the real-time availability data every 30 seconds? Imagine if they send the data back to the NHI and the NHI review it manually and publish every day, then everyone will have to trust the NHI as a third body. However, when the pharmacies agree to publish as soon as they're collected, then it's a participatory accountability, meaning people queuing in line. After they see someone swipe their national health card, they can actually see on their phone using maybe a linebot or something that's the availability decrease in real-time so that it decreased by two and two and two initially. Nowadays it's by 10 and 10 and 10, but if it rather increases, people will call 1-922 right there, right? So because of this rapid response cycle, this is not about someone integrating those data manually, but rather asking them to publish soon as they collect. Yes, Eva, you pick up the word trust within this conversation. How do you enhance trust between teams in terms of private sector and how do you enhance trust between different government sectors? That's very interesting too. I think I want to borrow your word. It's very hard to translate, but it's open door. That's right. I think open door probably is the way to fill the trust, right? Probably you can illustrate more about this part. Definitely. When I joined the cabinet, there is already an open data policy, but I upgraded it into real-time open data and gave it a moniker open API using the open API standards. I think it's a Linux Foundation standard 3.0. And because we share the same standards, people come to rely on each other for service delivery. And when people fulfill those service delivery APIs like a contract over time, then people understand what is better if they develop themselves and what is better if they just make sure that everyone can build upon the same API. A case in example, initially the mask availability is in the form of maps, but for people with seeing difficulties, maps is not very friendly. So line bots, voice assistants, many other ways of doing things actually more than 140 different ways of doing things started to come. And whenever someone say why there's no American English version, we're like here's the API build one and why there is no indigenous Amis version will build one. So basically by saying, if you can build, you build it. This is how we ensure that we trust the citizens and the citizens trust us. Right, but when you do this open door, don't you face a lot of questions about the security, the data safety? Definitely. And because of that we make a very clear delineation. The national health insurance data is not part of the public internet. It's behind VPN behind its own network. On the other hand, the public data set the open data data set is on the public internet and also replicated across more than 140 different citizens developers. And in a sense it's almost like a distributed ledger in a sense that if we modify it, everybody will know. And so because of that trust is much more easily verified when it's replicated across many development groups. But of course the central operation technology that of course is not connected to the public internet. Right, so I think it's like in security field we say, if you want to have trust, first you need to start with zero trust. Definitely. Zero trust. Zero trust is that you need to verify. Verify first. And then trust that you can. That's exactly right. Audrey, you are one of the most high profile digital minister across Asia, if not across the world, I know you have great publicity in French, German as well. But before government officials from Japan, my next question will be, you've moved so much different digital policies throughout the past four years so far. Which one is the most memorable one for you and you think it's so meaningful and I did the right decision. I think one of the key decisions that we made, and it's not just me but also premier, let's sing the solution China also minister of some portfolio low pension bed and go as you talk about collectively we made a decision to counter the info that make that's the disinformation crisis that's the conspiracy theories and so on, without administrative takedown. Now, this is actually very unique, because mostly in Asia, when people see there's a disinformation crisis, the intuition is to enable the cabinet to be able to take down messages from the public internet. So it doesn't spread and so on. This is like a lockdown in pandemic. It's not useful, but it does hurt the trustworthiness between the social groups, and it also makes other sort of solutions very difficult to grow. Once you have a lockdown people just stay at home and there's no way for social organizations to build right. And so, just like lockdown, we make sure that we counter the info that make with no takedown by relying on for example the third party fact checkers that America works with right through the virus bus and so on. And so this is like asking people to contribute more to wear a mask to wash their hands to share good hygienic practices and so on, so that it actually reinforces democracy, rather than concentrates more power into the public sector. And so this, what we call the people public private partnership model, starting with people the social sector, the media, the fact checkers and so on, and moving on to the public sector without taking down from the private sector. I think this is one of the more memorable choices that we made. This is excellent that deserve a round of applause. I think this is the attitude that that's one of this one of the big reason that try my, I mean, Taiwan is like in new from the whole world. Yeah, and this is so important for the whole world to get this message. Eva, as a company leader and CEO, how do you lead try micro to combat COVID throughout 2020 because as far as I know, you guys level up when everybody is taking a huge hit. Yeah, actually, I must say, I always say we are lucky because we are totally relying on digital we are a global company. So we rely on digital communication a lot. So when COVID-19 happened, and we all need to work from home. Actually, it's less challenge for trying micro, but I must say one thing that is really impressive, which is our Philippine operating operation center, they were the core centers core centers usually is like a bunch of people need to sit there, receiving the course right and Philippine don't have very good infrastructure, but within three days, our whole 1000 support people take their computer from office back to home set it up and answer during all this one year they all work from home, our customer satisfaction did not drop at all. So I think that is probably like you say, they trust, I believe the power is in those people they feel they have a mission. They believe they are doing something that is important. When, you know, during the COVID-19. Yeah. Immediately we think one, one month we see 260% increase in spills, phishing email. All this bad guy trying to utilize this opportunity to, to grab the money right so we all very angry about those bad guys and that's the share mission that we have that I think enable people to do the right thing. Yeah, since we have limited time my final question, since we're on safety issues and data privacy, I think it's so important when we into the new norm for the following years, I suppose. So both from your experience from public sector and your experience from private sector, what's government's role in this and what's her vision about enhance the whole Taiwan, especially data protection data privacy. And as a company you provide solution to the whole world. What's your vision and what's her. The next step vision throughout the whole space. Sure. So, what we will do definitely is in order to make sure that privacy is designed into all the government digital services. We have published for example the government digital service guidelines or the gdsg, as well as working with the for example the European Union on the GDPR adequacy, and that will definitely enhance the protection and the kind of psychological protection, such as the cyber security which is of course the foundation, but also the secure by default arrangements so that when people feel that their privacy may be compromised. There is a reliable way to get what really is happening to the people. I think we will use one example in consumer right protection in Taiwan when you buy something over a e-commerce shop. You can buy it to seven or 10 or 14 days of trial period, and if you don't like what's being delivered to your house you can just repackage and send it back and get a refund. Now this is protected by the Consumer Protection Council, and people understand generally that if a website says that by clicking this by default you forfeit the chance to try for seven days or 10 days or whatever. It doesn't mean null and void. It doesn't mean anything. You can still return that because it's protected by law. And if there's any tensions arise from this kind of labeling, people know that they can call the Consumer Protection Officials, the Xiaobao Guan system. That's then we'll fight for them to get a fair treatment and so on. So we need a very similar arrangement for privacy protection for personal data protection, and that is what we are now focusing on. I see. It's clear, yeah. Eva, I have a statistic here. For the past year, Tremacro has become a thousand and six million U.S. dollar company. That is a world leading brand. And as I suppose safety data and safety garden, this is such a cold thing and technical thing. How do you transfer into a warm brand and provide solution to the whole world and moving forward? What's your vision? I think for cybersecurity company, the most important brand is trust. And I kept on saying that for 33 years now, since we founded the company, we do nothing but cybersecurity. And so customer trust is, I think is the business model is very important. If one hand is selling data and one hand is trying to do data security, that's not trustworthy, right? So I think that sometimes I call Tremacro a very single-minded company. We just very persistently doing cybersecurity. But I'd like to mention something about post-COVID-19 security. I think this pandemic actually accelerated the digital transformation in a lot of sectors, right? So many people, no matter it's work from home, study from home, or the smart factory, or even smart car, smart construction infrastructure, all of this is accelerating into the digital platform. But what it means to security is widen the, we call it attack service. There's so many places that the attacker can attack. They can attack from the home office into the enterprise. They can attack from the, say, smart meter, right? The smart grid smart meter and then attack the countries infrastructure. So there's a lot more that we need to do to protect this widened attack service and correlate all this data, like you mentioned. Sometimes we need to understand how is the traffic normal data, right? We get it from government. What is the traffic pattern? Then we can analyze that somebody is hacking that traffic light to making a different pattern. So I think it's a very important thing for cybersecurity and working with the government sector because we think our specialty is cybersecurity. Government has a lot of these citizenships data and citizens infrastructure. And this data has interchange and collect, like you say, people private, public, or combined together. Our president saying one has a saying that cybersecurity is a matter of national securities and G1 precisely at this point. Right. Thank you for sharing my time is up. And right now it's open floor. If you guys want to raise your questions. Do we have the QR code here so people can scan through slide all right now if you have any questions that you would like to raise. Audrey here has this iPad. So if you raise any questions to title and and and and also Eva can can see some of the questions to see the QR code click the hamburger on the top left side. All right. Please use your phone and scan the QR code here. If you have questions to raise right now is the perfect timing. Presentation mode. Right. No, because they're they're putting up this for us to see and so I was just asking them to to share it and presentation mode. All right. So we're now waiting for them. And now please if you have questions. Okay, let's keep them sometimes. Okay, this is what we call Chen Luan go back. The first, the first question is to Audrey, how see I see the loop. All right. Audrey, I know your style is you will pick the question and you will answer right because it's it's it's more. That's right. So yes, I like you all. Thank you so much. And I'm sorry. That's right. I use the green vines for my hair product. But for body wash, I use. Okay. From all online audience, they're, they're asking what shampoo does Audrey use. All right. All right. There's more serious question. Who is birthday today? Okay, famous for seeing. No, not really. Okay, right. So, yeah, there's a more serious question. Can we, can we get. Let's, let's go to that. Okay. Right. So there's a question that says in many countries, there is a mistrust between the citizens, the industry and the government. How does Taiwan get everyone trusting each other. So the key, the key is the government need to trust the citizen first. And then the citizen may trust back, but, but yeah, may or may not. It's beyond us. But, but, but how, what do I mean by trusting a citizen. There's two, the most important two things. The first is to publish the data as soon as we have the data to make sure that there is no time lag between the data collection to the state and the data publication so that everybody can verify what really is happening. The other thing is accountability. It's very hard to translate in Mandarin. So I usually translated to a gate to交代, right, to be able to account for something. So for example, when most creation in first started to roll out, there's a social innovation that displays the real time map, right, but there's also another social innovation from pharmacies to hand out those how much I take a number system. And now these two individually are very good innovation, but taken together. This is like Mentos plus Coca Cola. It explodes because for the pharmacy that hand out those numbers at a morning and asking you to take the mosque at an evening. It looks on the map like it sells nothing for a while. And during lunch breaks it sells everything. Right. And so when we discovered this issue on February the 6, the first thing the CCC the Central Committee Command Center and yours truly did is to apologize is to say sorry, we didn't think of this. And to the pharmacist saying whatever you're doing is right, we support you and whatever we were doing wrong, we will fix it next Thursday. So we started at the time establishing an iteration cycle that's weekly. And so everybody come to realize that all the rules or the regulations or the algorithms and so on, are up to touch welcome right everyone can send a new ideas to the CCC. So the very next week we fix that by having the opening hour split into two different data fields, one for collecting number and one for collecting mask. And then a week afterward, we invented ways to, for example, to disappear from the map. Right. If the pharmacy hands out all the numbers they can just press the button and disappear from the mob and so on. So after three or four iterations, then we start to do a pivoting or pre ordering and things like that. And so at any time, people understand that it's not their fault to come up with social innovation. It's always our fault. And our commander Chen Shizong has a great way of saying it, which is way and Joe Joe woman my right legislator teaches. So whenever anyone want to offer anything we just turn those complaints into co-creation the very next Thursday by providing accountability and that's a key. Yeah, I just want to say in your this sentence you speak everything about that ball. Because I think that the most difficult thing for engineer or for any person is to admit I am wrong. That's right. And always a lot of time we will say customer. How come you so stupid. How do you. It works for me. It works for me. So I think in your process, the first most important thing you say it's my fault. Okay, and I would try to understand why, why this is not feeding your, your way and is next week. We'll fix it next Thursday. Yeah, every time we fix it next Thursday. Right. I think it's perfect. Your description just is the devil mentality. Thank you. Right now we cannot see the screen here but give you guys a little bit time so we can see all the questions above I see there's a very important one can we go back a little bit. There's, there's one called. Yeah. So there's one that says do you think there are still areas that we can improve on how we deal with misinformation the so-called fake news that is still apparent in the society. Yes, definitely. I think in the long run misinformation really is just a symptom. And the root cause is that people are still in a mindset of being readers consumers viewers of radio and television. Now that there's nothing wrong with that because it was born in the age of mass media, but nowadays in Taiwan broadband is a human rights no matter where you are in Taiwan, you get to make this per second and bidirectionally at just less than $570 per month. And because of that, everyone is media. Everyone produces media. And because of that, we are not teaching media literacy only anymore. We're now teaching media competence, meaning that we understand the primary schoolers, my grandma and so on. Everyone our media producers and everyone need to understand their social responsibility as a media producer to balance their data sources their information sources to participate more in fact checking and things like that. So when we see a lot of middle schoolers and so on fact checking our three presidential candidates a year ago during their platform debates and so on. I'm very excited by that because that means that those primary schoolers are not just listeners of media. They are now actively participating in newsroom. So that's the one thing I think we can do about the same question. Do you think there are still areas we can prove in terms of how to deal with cybersecurity. Same question. Oh, there's so many things that we can put this that we can improve in cybersecurity, but at least one thing, as long as your president don't don't spread fake news. Our president don't the middle schoolers fact check all three candidates and she doesn't do that. Okay, the next question I saw one that's a little bit above I think that's so interesting a little bit political AWS stop polar due to some reason political reasons. And do you think Audrey I think it's a great question do you think Taiwan's infrastructure use cloud solutions from other country might be a risk. For example, our national center for high speed computation. That's the entire stack down to the metal is within our territory. And we also make sure that of course we still work with other cloud provider solutions on reusing the open source components, but we always make sure that those open source components are understood and deployed domestically. I really that's the only responsible way of doing a public service because when we build public service on third party infrastructure and if they go down, they have their own SLA they are not accountable to the taxpayers. So for the truly important parts of digital services and one we always make sure that those cloud infrastructure providers are domestic or at least have a domestic presence and can have the SLA agreements that is in response to the digital service actual need and also is subject to the same cybersecurity standards as the competent authority the ministries or agencies contracting out of services. I think really that's the only responsible action. Right and from a cybersecurity experts. I would say, actually, it's impossible that you want to say it's totally safe, you want to stop or the risk. So, actually, the most important thing for any organization is to assume that you will have a breach and then prepare your risk mitigation to be resilient so you can react fast and limited your damage that is even more important. What do you do you want to pick next question that you'll love to respond. So the next question is how do you motivate people to have a shared vision towards the same urgency with really cute dogs in the Taiwan counter pandemic playbook which is the stars playbook. In 2003, the main difficulty in communication was that there's no centrally identifiable trustworthy communication source initially in 2003, the municipal governments the central government the media were all saying very different things. So the central epidemic month center currently works with the Ministry of Health and Welfare's participation office or PO. There's a team of people within each ministry in charge of engaging the public and mohw p o actually lives with a very cute dog the name is called It's a Shiba Inu and this cute dog become this official spokes dog of the entire CCC communication strategy. For example, we will say to keep social distance the physical distancing indoor keep three Shiba Inu's away, outdoor to Shiba Inu's away otherwise wear a mask and the dog very cutely put a foot to its mouth in a picture that says wear a mask to avoid shadow to show how do I translate that to avoid putting your hand to your mouth I guess. So must protect your own face against your own hands. Now that's a message very much worth spreading and anyone who have seen this cute dog will share this message so that people understand wearing a mask is a matter of personal protection. This is not just about or even it's not primarily about respecting the elderly or respecting the frontline workers or respecting each other which is all very good and well that people don't tend to share that kind of message so cute dog sharing a message that appeals to rational self interest that's the most important thing. Yeah, actually Tremacro also have a famous dog. Yeah, that's right. That's right. The virus buster is also a very cute dog. It's a dog. That's right. That's right. So you see cute dog. Cute dog works Audrey I've been in media industry for the past 10 years and I think using Tai Chen this is such a phenomenal and good decision but before the decision being made how do you know it's going to work why it's not a bird why it's not a cartoon or mermaid how do you decide on this. Well, it just so happens that the participation officer lives with a Shiba Inu instead of with a mermaid. I don't know any official that lives with a mermaid but anyway. So it's cheaper actually they don't have to pay shutters or pay Disney or things like that right they just go back home because they live very close to the main building of the ministry. So whenever there's a new like physical distancing rule and things like that the PO just walks back home take new picture of the dog and post it on social media. It saves a bunch of licensing fees for Japanese government official they might have to choose a different animal otherwise it will cause confusion. I don't know. I mean, I mean we have a dog in Trend Micro. There's a dog in Yanqiu Zhongyang電視台的神秀幼子, right. There's multiple Shiba Inus in Taiwanese media and they coexist. Let's move to the next question. So, yes, the next one says so this morning in our cabinet meeting, we have decided that we will first pass a specific act for digital identity card before rolling out the digital identity cards. And this is very interesting because to me, it shows that the cybersecurity awareness and privacy awareness has really grown during the year of the pandemic. Previously, there's not even half a million people downloading the National Health Insurance app the健康存摺, but now it's I think more than five million six million something like that. It's actually the most popular app in both Google Play and App Store in Taiwan for the past whole year. Because of that, people understood now more about how to check for the law for use of their National Health Insurance card, how to check the diagnosis from the hospitals and clinics they visit, how to even download the x-rays directly from the app and so on. And so naturally the expectation to the national ID card has risen because of this experience. So I think it's a really good thing. I think it we do have a duty to make an act. At least as secure and as privacy preserving as the national health card before we roll out the ID. You must need to have a lot of courage to stop a project like that. That's right. That's right. So this is why we call in Mandarin here we call pivot Joe drive right so first you have a shared vision you have a shared value and that's your Joe. And then you can rotate alongside this pillar and we can say, yeah, our main pillar is to make sure that everyone feels safe that cybersecurity and privacy is preserved and that's our Joe that's our pillar. And then we rotate saying, okay nowadays people are saying this must be at least as secure as the national health card. And so we just do that right. Because again, it pivot much like how we told the pharmacist, hey, you have it right. We got it wrong. And we will remedy that next Thursday. Exactly. And I'm a basketball thing and I used to use this example. I always say, yeah, but you get the basketball. That's right. That's right. Yes. You can only have one. That's right. That's right. That's what you say. That's right. That's right. Exactly. One leg is on your mission. That's right. But how do you find the right direction? Mission oriented. Mission oriented. That's exactly right. All right, the next question is so interesting. I want to focus on this a little bit more. Yeah. So the government is looking for cyber security expert. Why don't you would you ever consider to work directly with our working with Trend Micro? I think you can just cooperate with us and don't don't try to recruit my. Okay, I'm not in a HR function here. But more seriously, I think there needs to be cyber security expertise in all levels of the agency, not just the one or two doctors who are of course very important to safeguard the agency. But equally important is that every level of officials need to understand that cyber security is not just about something that you pay attention to after something bad happens. You need to be designed upfront. You need to invite this white hat thinking, red teaming and things like that, even before you roll out your first digital service. And so I think equally important is the competence of all levels of officials. And in Taiwan, we thank Trend Micro for showing what truly contributions from the white hat community could be to the national security. And we are now looking to promote more of that, especially to young people, right? There's AIS 3 from the Ministry of Education and we're looking to expand that even more so that the parents will feel safe if their child says, Hey, I'm going to be a white hat hacker. And the parents will not panic. That is also very important. All right, our time is up. And thank you so much for the question that you've raised. I think Audrey is online all the time. If you do have so many questions, maybe you can find a way to talk to her directly. Oh, I've been told they have five minutes. So maybe one more question. One more question. Right. So the last question is actually a complex one. Masaya-san would like to know there are digital transformation failures in Japan over the last few years. How does the Taiwanese government help companies secure their digital transformation? So to, I would not comment on the first sentence, but second part of it. I think it's by really by making sure that our failure modes are public. That is to say to fail fast and loudly. In Taiwan, for example, the masquerading example, we actually had a prototype that people didn't see that was using mobile payment instead of the national health card. That's initially at a convenient stalls. And we didn't roll it out, especially early on because we understood that people trust the pharmacist more. And we also know that only around half of the population understand how to use mobile payments. And so if we roll it out as the first version, then we will not get three quarter of the population getting access to mask and washing their hands properly because they heard it from their trusted pharmacist. And so we kind of deliberately let the first version fail, because we understand that we need to serve a higher purpose. And later on, when we introduce pre-ordering at a convenience store, again, the first prototype is actually using automated tele machines or ATMs, where you can insert your bank card or post office card and typed in passwords and wire $50 and get this QR code that you can then redeem the mask on the same store next week. But we didn't roll it out again because of the feedback, especially from the elderly population told us that they're very wary to enter their password to the ATM. And they would think that someone, right, because it says that this counter scheme sticker 165 is on the ATM all the time. They're very afraid that they will just wire out their entire saving just to buy some masks. Right. And so because of that, we pivoted again and say instead using the national health card and pay cash, like literally coins at a desk. The convenience stores didn't really like that because it's very unlikely for them to impose by something when you pay by cash. But on the other hand, this really secured the psychological safety for the elderly people and so on. So we didn't hide the two failed prototypes from the society from the population. Instead, we talk about this failure modes all the time. We share whatever we have thought of and how we didn't implement something and that I think lead by example in a way of digital transformation. That people would then think about this transformation as something that really saves time improves quality and also builds trust instead of just chasing some shining new technologies at the expense of trust and so on. It's so refreshing to hear from a highly technical savvy person from government say that don't just think about the shining technology think about the customers feeding right you talk about these older people's feel feel of safe. That is so refreshing to hear. And I think that's the lesson probably all of us should learn is too much time we technology people just feel like the newest shining technology is good but how to implement it. It's all about the users. Thank you Eva for wrapping this up and thank you guys for sharing and this is definitely the time stop would you to please stand up and come with me because Tremacro has prepared a little gift. Come with me a little bit so that they can present the gifts and they put a lot of thoughts into the gifts and that is going to to Audrey here. So, later on, we will be having a group pictures. Thank you guys for participating Tremacro master forum and right now let's present this gift here and thank you guys from Japan that's the end of our webinar. Thank you so much for your participation, we're going to take a group photo together.