 This school district is now eliminating all gifted programs which is upsetting to a lot of parents. Let's talk about it. You know it's always good to see the hometown make national news but sometimes it's always for the wrong reasons. Let's read the title. Seattle public schools shut down gifted and talented program for being oversaturated with white and Asian students. Of course this was from the New York Post possibly politically biased in its titling. However Andrew this is a real thing that's happening right now. The highly capable program which used to be called the gifted program is being shut down or morphed in Seattle. Yeah so for if you guys didn't know gifted programs essentially are where you take these kids who tested higher on this kind of interest exam and then they have a classroom together where the learning is a little bit more advanced than the regular classroom. This has been going on for decades. David you have some personal experience in this program growing up but I do want to clear some stuff up about the article. It's not that I support this because I think I'm with a lot of people that are doubting this change that they're about to do but I do think it's not exactly what people think. Right so we are going to get into the discussion, the pros and the cons, the nuances of it. Make sure you like, subscribe, turn on your notifications, check out SmileLotSauce, SmileLotSauce.com pre-orders open right now. Let's just take a look at the racial inequity in the program that they are referring to Andrew. Let's take a look at the chart. Obviously this is all students in Seattle. This is the Seattle school district by the way. I am a product of the gifted HC program in a neighboring school district that was based off Seattle programs so I wouldn't have been affected by this but very very close to this and then let's look at the splits in the highly capable program. So basically obviously the proportion of black and Hispanic students went down. The proportion of white and Asian and particularly Asian went way up. Right but I don't want to say if you look at these two circles they're not like completely opposite. Like this racial distribution between the regular classroom which is all students versus the highly capable. It's not like that the highly capable is like 50% white and 50% Asian. They're still like some you know other races of kids in there. Right and how you test in an HC is you have to get a top two percentile distribution I believe on the math and verbal portion of a test. That's how you gain entrance into this gifted HC program. Now here's the thing not everybody takes the test. It's not a mandatory test. They are making it mandatory now which I think is the right move. I think that's good to have every kid test in so that are given the chance to test in because otherwise then you're only keeping it for the families who decide to pay the fees so that their kid can test in anyways more on that later. Right and that's basically why the district is countering saying that the old model is highly inequitable for decades. Highly capable programs across the country like SPS served a very small number of black Latino indigenous Alaskan and Pacific Islander and low income students and top more white and Asian students. So a lot of people are saying you know maybe parents have resources to put their kids in tutoring to do better on the test early and then that puts them on this track for the rest of their life. Right but the main fear and we're going to see it in the comments down below but we got to go sift through this article a little bit more is because the fear is that you're you know you want to take away these gifted programs for the kids who deserve it right. So what they're trying to do now and I had to read the Seattle Times article because I was like well what paper wouldn't be biased against Seattle. It'd be the Seattle Times right. So I was saying the basically how they're going to implement it is they just want the kids all in the same classroom right. So like let's say the gifted kids are not in a different classroom. They have the same teacher but somehow they're going to break up when it comes to certain subjects they're going to break up the class so that kids are learning different things in the same classroom. So that's why this is confusing because they want the classroom to be less racially homogeneous. Yes they want the classrooms to be more multicultural and people of the same neighborhood and the districts and like to share the same spaces in school which that makes sense to me right. Like you know you want all your kids together and to experience each other because they can have more socialization right. Right and experience different types of people but it's going to be difficult a little bit for the teachers to kind of break it up for people. So anyways there's this one elementary I just want to explain how this is happening. On a recent day in a first grade classroom seven advanced learners these would be the gifted kids sat on a floor reading silently from their iPads. Several others wrote independently from their desks. Those would be like the regular students and a special education student wrote in a paraprofessional aid at the side. So they like if you walked into the classroom during this like writing section of the first grade classroom different groups of kids would be doing different levels of work. Right right right. Um dude it got really complicated from this whole thing because there was a consultant that recommended this and because some black parents whose kids were in the HC program came out against the elimination of the HC program but then they got accused of being like sellouts or tokens by this you know like it's there's always variance. I think the one thing I want to point out is there's always variances even within a community on how they view something. Right right. Anyway let's just get in my quick thoughts. I'll say this man I didn't experience this when I was in the gifted program when I was in elementary because our school district I got sent to a school that was all white. Anyway so even when I was in the classroom with whites and Asian kids the regular kids were still white but they were just more like blue collar whites. So I was like but I will say this that we kind of got segmented away from everybody because we didn't take our lunches with everybody so it is true you don't know the kids in your own grade. Like all the other kids that are in the regular classes they know each other but since we're doing so many field trips and like take different lunches we didn't even know the kids that were our same age in the same school. Right so you're saying there is a sense of maybe at least in your program growing up which I was not in the same program as David uh that it was too isolating. It is isolating for sure and some kids have like weird social issues that develop from that. We produced some really smart kids too that skipped went to college in like seventh grade too. Yes I think yeah from your gifted program definitely there were a couple people who ended up doing some really weird stuff but also some very bright kids who went on to become doctors and all that stuff. Right right right yeah no I mean we did hella science experiments we're like dissecting frogs doing Shakespeare all the regular kids were just like I don't know but having pizza parties. I think the real question is obviously it's triggering because a lot of people are like ah the left Seattle they don't know what they're doing which I could see why people are doubting this program I'm kind of doubting the implementation but it's really the devil is in the implementation like it's I don't think I think this idea works in your mind so I guess we're gonna see what happens but obviously it's not a school district I'm a part of my kids aren't in it I don't have kids I don't live there so I guess it's unfortunate for some people and I could see why people are upset so I feel it for sure for sure I mean man it's kind of tough because people got to make their own decisions you know we played a lot of street ball growing up we played on the school basketball team we played a au basketball too so I got exposed to a lot of different types of people through playing football and basketball and stuff like that but I did it's true that a lot of the white or Asian kids in the accelerated program they don't necessarily share those same like outside interests or they're not going to get that multicultural socialization too as much so but at the same time is it the school district's responsibility to create those interactions too right so I think as a parent of a kid who's being put into a regular classroom with every other kid yeah I think it's even more important on the parents now and also what experiences are you going to allow your kid to have because I think in one sense you could have kept kept the gifted programs but created these cooperative events or sports or events that all the kids share so at least they all know each other to some level or share lunch or something but then on the other hand I don't know anyway I fully agree with this listen guys people who come from uh non-academic families or families that are disenfranchised or growing up in poverty I think there absolutely has to be government funded programs to address those concerns and situations uh for their own sake for the the family's sake the individual's sake but also society at large's sake but I don't know if eliminating the gifted programs that's definitely a suboptimal plan yeah I mean for me example growing up I was at a different school and I was in a class in just like the regular classrooms but essentially at home I would say at the home life was more like a gifted program because our parents were Asian and our parents cared about academics so I was doing extra work outside of it obviously David was in a different program going up so then essentially I felt like a some version of maybe a gifted kid in a regular classroom but I just didn't test into it right right right and I think doesn't that go to personal responsibility nowadays like where everybody's trying to offload everything onto public infrastructure and they don't want to be responsible I don't know it's like tough I don't I understand different people got different home lives some people's parents are not even at home because they're like at three jobs or something like that somebody just said Washington state now became one of the worst states uh that's actually really funny somebody said moving to Seattle is what turned me from a liberal to a centrist conservative Washington state is off the rails I'll tell you this man uh I think a lot of people in Washington state Andrew who run it they're well in tension but in terms of the actual implementation of the policies I really disagree with some of the stuff they're doing um of course people are talking about just how you know like you know there's needs to be programs to help the bottom in terms of academics but you can't do it by taking off the top right because there are people are drawing comparisons to socialism communism right well here's the funny thing is Andrew China is considered a communist country but they certainly believe in academic meritocracy so I don't know if it's like really tied to yeah um of course there were some comments coming in from Latino and black people saying hey guys I still believe in this even if quote-unquote people think that I should be on one side or the other side of the issue I believe in these gifted programs right um of course other people came out and said yo it just has to do with distribution of resources other kids they don't understand like when you come from a family that's broken or it doesn't have these resources how can the kids possibly test into the top two percent academically at a young age yeah I think the one thing though that they are missing in this plan is like I guess it is a more you could argue it's a more diverse regular classroom when everybody's together but it's not like the smart kids are going to it's not mandatory for them to like mentor the not as gifted kids you know what I mean or yeah just not as academically like is there that program are they gonna like are the kids are the gifted kids gonna start teaching the class or something that would be crazy I don't know it's like a mini interteach for America um somebody just said why don't we put more five foot tall Asians on the basketball or football team that's pretty funny that's funny yeah somebody said if you're worried about diversity in that field obviously um this uh is from an African-American guy he said so instead of helping and doing something for the kids who are being left behind by the system we're just going to keep the smart kids from advancing yeah I agree I think there just needs to be more programs for the people who are starting more from the bottom you just need more programs for them I mean that that that makes more sense yeah you have to stabilize that yeah like you said not everybody's born into the same family different groups have different ratio distributions and it's like the government should do what it can to stabilize people's living situations obviously you can't account for everything their home life is their home life um somebody said this is a more conservative comment I just wanted to say at some point at some point ultra progressive policies will become regressive we're going backwards yeah I mean I think time will tell I think we're gonna see how this all plays out and uh I hope they're ready to make adjustments no change is ever comfortable at first though almost all change to anything like seems like a bad idea yeah for sure I mean I remember I mean remember like desegregation sounded like a bad idea at one point yeah that's that's true right no it's true I'll tell you guys this story like I said my situation is not the same as these situations because it was a blue collar white kids on the regular classes but the few minority kids I remember is like me as the Asian kid Nicole Sharper was Jamaican Melissa Bowie Trago was Venezuelan and we were just all kind of like I wouldn't say we were a super tight knit group but we definitely knew we were the minorities at the white school in the gifted program because they're my areas didn't even have a lot of Asians period there was some half Japanese kids but they didn't act that Asian just somebody said uh you cannot redistribute success but you can sure as hell redistribute failure I think that that's a bar but it's a little bit over over set you know what I mean it's a little exaggerated because like you said the program of mixing everybody it could work I don't know if I believe in it over 50 percent but it could there's a chance you got to let things play out get the big data get the metadata and then make analysis and makes reads from that point well I think it's better to do it at an elementary level though I will say this this makes a lot more sense in like a one to fourth grade to mix everybody together and then let them start separating themselves when it gets to fifth and sixth grade and then high school classes got to be different of course and then of course college is right a hundred percent going yeah so I think if you're going to do it do it when they're young and see what happens um this Latino guy interestingly enough Andrew he said I can kind of understand why you're doing this let's be honest Asians in Seattle are rich white people are usually middle to upper middle class and then you just see for Latinos they just got here it's been difficult for them usually they're gonna be the first generation to go to college and a lot of people come from broken homes and it's just like the grind is different the grind is different for certain people born into different situations and I do agree where this guy is coming from like if you just don't have the resources very young you don't have the coaching you don't have the stability you don't have the background it's like it is life is like that I also don't think like these parents who got their kids in the gifted program don't just think just because they're in a classroom with regular kids that all of a sudden they're gonna become like dumb like that is the wrong way to think too right right right but anyways any last points David um somebody said that this is just going to lead to what happened in california where everybody puts their kids in really expensive school districts that know like basically people are going to either go to private school or hyper expensive public school districts if they eliminate the pro these programs from middle to lower middle class school districts well seattle the clock is ticking you got some time to figure this out and to show everybody that it's not going to be a failure and if it does fail so be it go bring back the gifted programs you know what I think man I think that a lot of people have good intentions but they just don't understand how to execute something so you end up just coming up with a plan that makes everybody mad like there needs to be more programs to support people in any aspect of life that they're not good at like I always thought for the kids would really love basketball but they couldn't make the basketball team you know yeah I guess they could do the you know parks and recreation version which is a little bit lower tier but it's like they're needed basically there needs to be more like g leagues or d leagues just like they have the g league or d league for the mba there's got to be just a sub program where kids who really want to be good at school but maybe they're just not testing into that top two percent they can go into like the high effort class you understand like how come nobody's thinking about a third solution everybody wants to keep it the old way or eliminate it and like neither of these are optimal solutions I guess I could see why they're trying to do it in the sense that if all these kids go to different schools growing up then it's going to stratify Seattle and like all these kids who live in Seattle together they're going to be split up into further and further groups so I don't know but anyways guys you know what time is going to tell how this works out it's going to be largely on the teachers and the parents whoa what do we know teachers and parents it comes down to teachers and parents again you know I remember my junior year I wrote a 30 page essay on affirmative action reform and my general takeaway was that yes you need it it's a great program but the implementation matters a lot and it seems like they always get the implementation wrong I don't know why maybe because humans are flawed or a trillion reasons let us know what you think of this situation in the comment section below until next time we to hop out boys we out peace