 We want to put out content as much as we can and educate people so when you ask the question how do you get 45 year old guys and ladies to squat to backswip to not just that but usually to spend two, three, four, five thousand dollars on a home gym and the home gym is barbells and squat racks and platforms and bumper plates you know and it's because we've grabbed them ahead of time with the content. You're listening to Barbell Logic brought to you by Barbell Logic Online Coaching where each week we take a systematic walk through strength training and the refining power of voluntary hardship. Welcome back to Barbell Logic. This is producer Trent and you're hearing my voice because we are doing something a little bit different from our usual thing today. We are airing an interview that Matt gave with the friendly folks over at TrueCoach. Of course TrueCoach is the software that powers a lot of the behind the scenes activity that happens at Barbell Logic. So those of you who are clients with Barbell Logic know that TrueCoach is kind of the hub where all of the communication takes place. So coaches post the lifters programming on there, lifters upload videos of the workouts for form checks, coaches provide form feedback there, they also do nutrition coaching via TrueCoach. So there's a lot of stuff that happens at TrueCoach and we thought it'd be cool to share some of the history that Matt has with the company. You know Barbell Logic has been with TrueCoach for nearly four years now. In fact Barbell Logic was one of the beta testers of the software back in 2016. So Barbell Logic has been with TrueCoach from nearly the beginning and in that process Matt has also developed a close personal relationship with the leadership team at TrueCoach. Casey Jinx who is the founder of TrueCoach and then who we're going to hear from today, Sam Pogue who is the vice president of branding at TrueCoach. So again this interview first aired on TrueCoach TV. If you want to go check that out and you want to read more about Matt's journey building Barbell Logic with and alongside TrueCoach then I will leave some links in the show notes. In the meantime, enjoy the show. What's up everybody? Welcome to TrueCoach TV. I'm your host Sam Pogue. I'm sitting here in beautiful Boulder, Colorado still because we're all still in our homes and getting to sit down with the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Matt Reynolds, founder and owner of Barbell Logic and a recent experiencer of the virus himself and is just recently released from quarantine. And these guys, they run a program and they run a coaching business and they do such an excellent job with the element of coaching their clients that I really was really excited for Matt to share not only the philosophy behind what Barbell Logic brings as a business but what they help reinforce with their coaches to get such a great compliance rate which is so important in the remote coaching space and retention rate. These guys are primarily using the Barbell in a setting and right now we are not in a setting where everybody has one and for them it shows because their coaches have built such great relationships with their clients that it's just business as usual and these guys have done such a great job really living up to what that word means as coach and so really excited to have Matt on. Thank you so much for joining us and so glad you're healthy enough to do it. Thanks for having me. It was weird. I was one of the early COVID-19 positive people in the United States and so did a lot of travel. I travel quite a bit for business and got it traveling and you know was sick with flu-like symptoms for about nine days at the very beginning of March and then started to get the respiratory stuff and finally was able to get into the hospital and get tested, tested positive. I ended up having to be in the hospital for a few days with pretty bad pneumonia and I'm a you know I'm a pretty healthy guy 41 years old. I'm a lifter, I've been a professional strongman and a competitive power lifter for years and you know it's surprising not me on my butt for a few days for sure. Oddly enough my wife was the only person I gave it to and she was completely asymptomatic the entire time so she really never had any symptoms at all, was never sick and so yeah we were officially declared healed or recovered by the CDC about two weeks ago now somewhere in there so it's but it was it was a rough two weeks for sure but yeah all has gone well and it's allowed me to get back to focus on the business for sure. Well go into that a little bit for us please tell us a little bit about why you have to travel so much or why you're on airplanes and traveling so much and what Barbell Logic is for those people who may not have heard of it before. Sure but Barbell Logic is a business I started back in early 2016 and really what we do is we connect world-class strength coaches with people who want world-class strength coaches and so we'll talk about this a lot more that we are we are form Nazis we are form people and so certainly programming is a huge part of that we push true coach software about as hard as you can possibly push it because we are breaking down multiple videos every single workout every single day within 24 hours and so yeah we put a lot of emphasis on biomechanics and physics of the lifts how to perform things like the squat the deadlift the bench press and those four lifts are really the basis of what we do it's certainly not the only thing we do we do bodyweight training we do things like cleans and snatches we do rows and all those kind of big big boy lifts as well and certainly there's a place for everything and we do cardio as well and and hit type training or we help prepare people for endurance type events or you know Spartan type runs and so that all works well but we we very much are focused on performance first and aesthetics and aesthetics as a byproduct of that performance and then I think the thing that would separate us from other coaches or businesses that that maybe run like a CrossFit type model of that would also say their performance first is that our demographic excuse a little older and so we tend to be in the in the 35 to 55 year old range which is probably not where most of your coaches are most your coaches are probably honed in more on the 20 and 30 somethings I tell you what though as you go into a crisis like this the fact that the majority of our of our primary demographic for our business is upper middle class or upper class sort of executive men and women who don't get hit quite as hard by a financial crisis like this and so we've done really well we were we were up about seven seven and a half percent in March over February we are on track for the same sort of thing in April and then you know I certainly I don't have delusions of danger this may last a while and it may hurt us a little bit but we're in a position where we're we're pretty safe we've done well with Stewarding our money well we are profitable and cash positive and so you know we're okay my concern is much more at the micro level for our for our actual clients and actual coaches so you know I've got young coaches who coach young people and a lot of those young people in the service industry and so my worry is what do we do with my I'm we're not going to have to lay off anybody we're not going to have to but what do you do with a coach who has 25 clients and they lose 10 of them because they're all those 10 are all in their 20s their waiters and waitresses and whatnot and so that is at the forefront of our concern right now same thing with our our clients we are concerned about the clients who have lost access to their gyms we are more concerned about the clients who have lost their jobs or been furloughed or laid off and then I'm I'm concerned about clients who are sick and you know after having this thing it was about three and a half weeks of no training for me and I I love to train I've got a great home gym and train my home gym and so you know if you get this you can't train and so you know for us to to answer that question a little deeper we we spend a lot of time trying to make emotional deposits into our clients 401k and I think that with a business like ours it's so heavily barbell driven we have about 60% of our clients that train at home 40% train at gyms so we do have a lot of people that train at home but still 40% of the training gyms and there are no gyms open so if you train at a gym you don't you're not able to squat and deadlift and bench press and press right now because you're at your house or your apartment and so but I think with the connection and the focus on relationships and the way we build relationships with our clients and between our clients and coaches that when you get into a place like this there is some there's some money in that 401k right we've built that up just a little bit and so that emotional 401k with our clients and so we're able to then transition them into things like bodyweight training training with bands kettlebells adjustable dumbbells 50 pound bags of dog food what whatever they get their hands on and they can still train in this downtime at their house and and so for us the programming while they're at home looks more like systematic progressive training so rather than that standard sort of you know hopper idea of let's just like stick our hand in a bucket and pull out the workout of the day from home we are still making making very clear linear progression with our clients and at the gym that linear progression is almost always we're going to add a little weight we're going to add a little weight we're going to add a little weight that's going to tend to try to get stronger that's what we do we can't do that right now while people are at home but what we can do is we can add volume we can add frequency we can add density right so you do more work in the same amount of time like all of those things and so we're progressively still adding stress because we want to be clear to our clients that we what we're trying to do is train not exercise and so even though right now it sort of feels like exercise and it's certainly probably not the quality of training that most people slow down that detraining effect and so when they go back to the gyms they're going to have a nice sort of base of aerobic base of work capacity and they're going to be able to go in and probably handle those squats and deadlifts and bench presses and presses a little better certainly than if they had just sat at home and eating Krispy Kreme donuts in order doordash for six straight weeks yeah 100% now and and I mean that gets into the root like the root game of what our industry is is that's you know as a coach in in strength conditioning a personal trainer whatever title you want to give it is we facilitate the management of stress and how often that stress comes in and out and whatever delivery tool sometimes it's a sandbag and sometimes it's a barbell and which one did you do first powerlifting or a strongman I did powerlifting and I did that from 99 till about 2005 2005 I got interested in strongman you know powerlifting is all the same kind of it's a lot bench and deadlift that's what it is and I loved it and still love it and they have gone back to powerlifting in my sort of master's years and I got in strongman 2005 actually won my pro card at the same show as Brian Shaw so Brian and I won our pro cards together and then competed on the world strongman circuit the pro circuit for three and a half years opened a gym in 2008 called strong gym grew that gym really almost accidentally I was a teacher and I finished my master's to be a principal the gym was just kind of a place for all the powerlifting strongman strongman in my area to train which obviously there's not a ton of those people so again no delusions of grandeur on business there but the thing grew and we were able to market that style of training to normal people to those business executives and soccer moms and so the gym grew and so by the time we got to about 2012 it was one of the largest strength gyms in the country and it was super nice it was kind of part of the deal it was that it had that feel of like a boutique gym but people trained like powerlifters and strongmen there and so it's kind of best of both worlds I sold it at the end of 15 and then started full-time online coaching January of 16 and so the business has grown tremendously it's you know we I think that my first year I did a little under 150 grand in revenue that first year and we're in the multiples of millions of dollars revenue now in 2019 and so staff of about 70 people at this point and love it man I just love what we do and you know certainly it's been an incredible blessing during a thing like this to be able to work from home you know I thought a lot about what would it look like if I still own that gym gyms close no revenue coming in and that gym was a big gym I brought in a fair amount of revenue but it wasn't super net profitable it was profitable but it was a huge building and we own the building itself and it was 15,000 square feet man it's nice being able to work from home hunker down during this quarantine time and for us we're Midwestern people and so I can live well living in the Midwest and we homeschool our kids and we're my wife's to stay at home mom and we it's not that different for us so certainly being sick with the virus was a little bit weird but once we got once we got better life's kind of normal for us so it's not that hard so all that traveling you were doing you were you're teaching a seminar you teach a workshop yeah yeah I teach seminars and I speak a lot of times so I get asked to to public speak I was actually at a big men's conference in Atlanta for influencers guys are you know I have like massive YouTube channels and massive Instagram channels or whatever and so I'm kind of the fitness guy there and I train a lot of those guys so you know like guys like Brett McKay from Art of Manliness or these guys just have like you know multiple millions of followers are a lot of those guys are just down to earth dudes and so I train them I'm their coach they they are clients on True Coach and they love working through it and so I get to go out and speak to those guys and then we do a lot of seminars as well so at this point one of the things we've not necessarily a pivot but an added thing that we've done over the last few years is we have an academy now where we're training people to become expert coaches so one of the problems we saw was that the bottleneck for our business is obviously at some point this the demand outstrips the supply if I'm trying to connect true expert coaches and not just not just the verbiage of saying like hey they're an expert coach like these people are expert unbelievable coaches if I'm connecting people of that caliber with people who want it and because of the internet anybody who can afford it has access to it the bottleneck is in the expert coaches at some point I run out of expert coaches and so we saw that several years ago we started to develop the curriculum to train up we started basically with our own clients that were interested and then that's now expanded out and so we have a tremendous it's six months it's a six month program our coaching academy and we train people and it's basically like a very immersive very intense study of how to become a master strengthening coach after that six month period now it's all online so the question is how well can you coach after six months of everything you've done is online certainly they've got to turn in some videos and things of them coaching people in person but at that point we take them under our wing we bring them on as interns if they've done very very well in the academy and they get to see thousands of reps online and then we start to work with them with in person coaches so we just get rep after that stuff you can't buy that experience and so lots of experience then we then we do a seminar where they've got to pass an in person practical and it's it's very hard to pass it's got a very low pass rate extremely high standard they've got to do a written test and they've got to do an oral test they've got to pass all three of those to become a professional barbell coach and work for us and so but it's been nice because the you know I don't ever have to interview anybody because we have these we have people who come in as students for the academy if they do very well as students and they're basically a quote-unquote a student and they turn in great assignments and do great work and they interact and do the zoom calls then we'll invite them to be an intern and we pay our interns it's not free work so we pay them but you know it's it's not great pay they come in and work and then I get to see how they work and if they work really well they do really well then they go past their certification they've already proven to me that they have great work ethic that they're part of the team they're part they're on the slack channels with the team and so it works great and so I just get to welcome them into the family and make them a full staff coach so that's how we've grown the staff and I've never had to do an interview with a coach Dana how well could you interview a coach anyway and be like like if I were interviewing you right now say I'm trying to figure out if you were a great strength coach that's very difficult to do over a phone call I need to see it you know and so we've been able to do that with our with our coaches so both certainly about 80% of our revenue right now is from online coaching and about 20% of our revenue is from the the making coaches and the the academy so is the academy an invite only thing or is there something that coaches who want to look more about programming it's clear that you guys are teaching a really good system around it yeah absolutely so nope the academy is the thing what's nice about this is that anybody can do the academy academy is like going to school and so it's a hundred seventy nine bucks a month it's pretty cheap that's a and it's only a six month it's not six month commitments a six month class and you're in there usually somewhere between six and ten other students with a phenomenal master coach professor great curriculum phone call a zoom call about a two hour zoom call once every week it's just been tremendous and so anybody can do that and then really that is sort of fairly competitive because you've got a bunch of students in the academy and they're all competing to try to get the invite to be an intern so that's where the invite comes in so the top of the classes of the academy get invited to be interns at Barba logic online and coaching and then we take you under our wing and do everything we can to develop your eyes a coach and help you pass the certification and then because we want more coaches but we're not going to dumb down the standard to get there so it's more truly well you know a lot a lot of coaches right now are probably feeling the lack of not having a community or having a system in play right and that's the big thing is like okay well most gets so easy to get into this field that all of a sudden unless you have good mentors right out of the gate that hey this is kind of the direction your training should look and this is what programming looks like that you really have a grasp of what's going on and so I want coaches know that there is if you're in this space and maybe you do love the barbell and you do love strength training and you want to work with athletes and you want to provide this experience well maybe you had a hard time getting going on your own to where okay this might be a great opportunity for you to learn and be a part of a system that teaches you how to be successful and these guys have done it so well and you know especially you know I would think a great lesson here from them too is that like okay you look at barbell and strength training is a smaller audience than let's say Zumba right and just overall people who are doing it on a regular basis and that doesn't mean that there's less people for them to work with in that they don't have a business right being more specific with their message like you heard Matt say we want world-class strength coaches who want to work with world-class strength athletes or athletes who want to train like world-class strength athletes. Yeah in fact just to be clear like that's true on the strength coaches but I think I almost hate saying it this way our primary demographic is incredibly ordinary normal people and so and that's the thing and yes we do want our 45 year old executives to think of themselves as athletes but the reality is that the vast majority of these people are very normal business professionals soccer moms and dads grandmas and grandpas so on and so forth so yes I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off but yeah it's interesting and when you think about that and this is the thing from the business perspective and again I don't know how many people are going to listen to this that don't really have their demographic set yet but I would I would urge you so many people want to train athletes they love it and I get it athletes are a blast I've trained I've trained world-class power lifters world-class crossfitters Olympic weight lifters strong men I was a head strength coach of a giant high school for 10 years so I had lots of students come through that were phenomenal athletes and went on to be division one athletes and whatnot lots of my friends are division one strength coaches at major major major universities I don't want to train athletes let me tell you why one they're genetic freaks so you don't know if you're a good coach and listen you know this right so because every freaky athlete does bigger faster stronger in high school or the Oklahoma program it doesn't matter what program they do the freaks because the freaks so it does you have no idea if your program means any good because these people are all incredible hey train an 82 year old lady that'll tell you if you're good coached and here and let me and let me I promise you I'm like the least greedy person in the world ever meet 20 and 30 something athletes are broke they have high turnover rate and middle-class normal people are more settled in their life they don't leave listen our churn is 4% per month it's insanely low February is 3.3 in March last month it was 4.4 in the middle of COVID I mean think about that we lost 4.4% of our clients that's insanely low in the middle of a massive disaster where 10 million people filed for unemployment where 200,000 people got the actual disease in our country and we were able to keep our clients because the demographic was one that were settled and they can pay for the thing and they weren't going to leave and they weren't going to get tired of what you do and go off and do hot yoga or go off and do crossfit or go and there's nothing wrong with any of those things it's just that that's what you see out of a younger generation they're like let me try this thing for three or four months and then I'll move on so I have I've been interested in these other you know I've got friends that own and run other online coaching businesses that focus on athletes and I have wonder and I just don't like prying on their business but like how's the business right now you know because if the bulk of your demographic is 20 to 31 and they work in service industry and then they're making $38,000 a year they can't pay you right now because they're not working and so we're in a pretty good pattern from a demographic standpoint to continue to be successful because we've chosen to work with those everyday normal people. 100% right and you know guys working in the and even the sports performance business I hear all the time from kids they're like I want to work with pro athletes I'm like yeah okay the amount of people that get to work with the Jake Arietas the Pat Mahomes right are the far and few between like if you're going to do in a youth program or most of these performance facilities have adult fitness programs for the youth athletes parents like that's what keeps their bills afloat like it's not going to come purely from athletes so no I love it. I'm thinking that if you're a coach how much I'm in Missouri right so Pat Mahomes is like you know he's like God here you're a coach and you really care about what you do listen I think I'm a great strength coach let me tell you how much better of an athlete I can make Pat Mahomes zero not at all because he's I can't do anything to make him better but the 65 year old guy who's got disdegeneration in his back and he's had a he's had an ACL repair in his knee or maybe a knee replacement or whatever I can literally change that guy's life I can make his quality of life better and so I think you have to ask yourself what you really want to do is train professional athletes and the question is do you really want to do that because you want to ball with the athletes because you want to be able to post on Instagram like hey look at who I coach or do you actually want to change people's lives and like I had to make a decision early on here's another secret that you know you're going to do this interview and a lot of people like I've never even heard of Matt Reynolds or Barba Logic perfect it's not a cult of personality it's not about me man I'm trying to build a business that changes people's lives on the back of expert coaches not on me it's not because it's about me if I die in a car accident tomorrow my family doesn't get paid my my coaches don't get paid because it's about me so I've I've tried to build a business it's not about me that's about the brand that's about the coaches that's about the quality of service it's about the relationships that we build and I think that's why we've done so well we have positioned ourselves to grow the business to a point that it it is going to be a potentially a massive business at some point it's a pretty good size business now and it's extremely successful and I think it's because I don't have to be the guy on Instagram with Pat Mahomes with his arm around me being like thanks coach I don't care I would rather coach the 65 year old guy than coach his life and and not just the 65 year old guy but the 65 year old guy times 2,000 more of those and that's what we're able to do totally totally well you guys being a strength gym and working with the that more executive older population how do you get the 45 year old CEO to care about back squats and rows and bench press and overhead press and get them to care about meticulously giving a shit about their quality control week in week out and adjusting their lifestyle to live that like that's for a lot of people it's weird to get them to convince someone who's never done it before to do it that's a great question actually we put out a ton of content and that content is always free and that content is extremely high quality and so again if you think about the demographic think about people a lot of that younger demographic in their 20s that go to like CrossFit gyms a lot of those CrossFit are industrial style gyms they're dirty and they're dusty and they're industrial villains and they don't care because they're 24 years old and they're out there trying to sweat and they're sports bras and they're booty shorts and they're tall socks or whatever right so like but that's okay like and I don't care when I train at a gym like I don't need a gym like super super clean I'll go train at a hardcore gym it doesn't matter right but and I think a lot of times that content is the same sort of thing you look at a lot of people on on YouTube and podcasts and like their content the quality of the content sucks but it speaks to the demographic of that 20 to 30 year old age group what we've done is we've done the same thing we've just we've spoken to the demographic that we have so we have a podcast called Barba Logic which is I think at this point either the number one or within the top two strength podcast in the world has several hundred thousand downloads a month we're about to do episode number 300 on it it's very high quality you know people can listen now and you're recording me on zoom so the recording is not going to be tremendous but like high-end microphones high-end sound it's expertly produced we don't just turn on the recorder and then put the thing out we have a professional producer that actually produces the podcast we do two videos on the Barba Logic channel which are extremely high quality short on time seven minutes or less and so what we've done is we've got an incredible editor-in-chief who writes a couple articles for us every single week on BarbaLogic.com they're very clean very well written this guy was an attorney and left his jobs that's the other thing about my coaches like most of these coaches were engineers, attorneys, surgeons you know a guy that was a PhD of macroeconomics at Princeton and he's like and their coaches for us well we pay well and you don't it's a part-time job you can make yourself you know a hundred dollars an hour plus working in your underwear at home drinking coffee and so it works pretty well so it appeals to that and so what we've done is we've how did we not get the underwear coffee version of you that's right well it is you just can't see I just got the polo on up top so and it's two in the afternoon so I've switched to whiskey already so okay perfect no it's a you know we just put out all that to me there are content companies where that's what they do that's their primary driver of revenue for us content is the thing that drives people to the service the service is the thing that makes the money the revenue the content is the thing we put out that drive people to that and so our content will always be free we may put out some books in the future and those books will be priced you know right but outside of the books like our we're never going to have a content behind a paywall articles are free videos are free podcasts is free I even did a I did a master's class on programming we have a system of programming we call minimum effective dose for maximum return on investment programming it's about making just a single change to program so it's very systematic and I did a master's class for that and in the academy we charged for that the first time and I had you know a bunch of students in the class they would ask questions well I ended up recording all those classes sent it to my producer had my producer cut it down and we put it out as our podcast for eight episodes in a row that eight classes and we you know we pulled out the questions in the kid it was a two hour class we cut it down to a 40 minute podcast it was the best it was the best numbers we ever had on the podcast and the thing is it all comes back to could I have continued to run that class for a price yes but that's not what we do we want to put out content as much as we can and educate people so when you ask the question how do you get 45 year old guys and ladies to squat to back sweat to not just that but usually we are very pro home gym at at barbell logic usually to spend two three four five thousand dollars on a home gym and the home gym is barbells and squat racks and platforms and bumper plates you know those sort of things and it's because we've we've grabbed them ahead of time with the content they've read the they've read the articles they've listened to the podcast they've watched the videos and so and because the quality of those things are very very high and that has nothing to do with me as to what I've got a great video producer I've got a great podcast producer I've got an incredible editor in chief like those people put out a tremendous high quality content they make me sound good and they make me sound smart like it's incredible how many times I've done those video shoots and I step all over myself and you know and can't my tongue's all tied and twisted I can't get it out and it comes out and or I'm and I look fat I'm like I look fat and then the video producer comes out and I'm just like actually I look kind of Jack now he's got a great this guy's great with lighting and you're just like man all right that's what it's about so you know it's just let's just be honest that's what it is yeah so it works so we're able to educate people in this sort of build trust with people before their full-blown clients yeah and then we continue that education process once they become clients and then they stay guys if you guys have been following along the true coach blog the other interviews I've been doing and you keep hearing the same story around this high quality service you keep hearing around this idea around delivering content delivering value value right that's I mean the key thing did you keep hearing it and Matt's voice every time like they give a fuck about the quality like if you're gonna do a podcast like I have a podcast I travel with and I'm gonna have nice broadcast headsets I have a nice zoom right like I don't want the audio to suck because if it's crappy audio you're not gonna sit and listen to it right so like caring and the fact that they do content it's an acquisition strategy it gives you like hey you can trust us we can be people that can help you get to A to B if this is the thing you do and then this is what we do right for you this is a great example for all of you coaches out there who are listening to this go how do I do something content related that's not just Facebook and Instagram because I only have 10 clients it's like well you need to put out some content of value that shows people you're an expert that tells them that they can trust you right and Matt's been doing this for I don't want to aid you but more than a decade and consistently trying to be nice it's that's the thing and let's be honest a decade ago I was still broke yeah I did it for 10 years and I was a pretty damn good coach 10 years ago you know I didn't know anything about business yet and now and now the challenge for me is growing the business and cultivating the relationships with my staff man I my staff is unbelievable and not just my coaches my coaches are unbelievable but my leadership team my my VP of HR she is a true you know when I think about like in corporate world when I was coming up HR is not a it's not people you want to deal with right she is incredible and she's a true liaison for the clients and the coaches matter of fact I call her the VP of HR she her official title is she's the VP of internal relations so she she basically she cultivates relationships relationships within the business with the clients and with the coaches and then I you know the same thing I've just got this I've got people who oversee the quality of coaching like we don't just we we bring on incredible coaches but then we continue to try to not not be big brother and look over their shoulder but to continue to help give our coaches resources to help make them better coaches and not just like hey here's an article to read or here's a video to watch lots of one-on-one calls we walk through things like it like efficiency of work like what's your it let's check your internet speed do you have a good work station is your monitor big enough you know how is how are you given feedback to your class where we give feedback every 24 hours no matter what to our clients so it's not just about programming as matter of fact programming for us is clearly secondary to the actual coaching that we do and so I couldn't do any of this I've got a VP of marketing understands everything about SEO and she's a coach for me that's the other thing it wasn't had to hire from outside the business it was somebody that went to school for SEO was already doing this for a major firm lives in California was coaching for us and was like I can do this for you and then we started to cultivate that and so I'm in a great because that my sales people are awesome my chief administrator is awesome like you know that they all do a better job at their job than I could ever do at their job and it's weird to think about two years ago I did all those jobs I was the guy that did that because I was it I was it was a sole proprietorship and I had some coaches and I was the quote-unquote employee and so now that we're a we're a staff we have nine full-time employees and we have another you know 55 or 56 coaches and then some additional like part-time people administrators and producers and things like that it is it's sort of running a great big ship but I could never do it without him tonight this is nothing you know I am very lucky that I I had the relationships ahead of time to be able to sort of start to choose wonderful people to work at this business and that's the reason we've done so well well and it speaks volumes to the journey that you've been through to now be in a spot to be the leader that you can can run this ship right to recognize like yeah these people do it ten times better than I could ever or that I did do it so yeah let them do their thing right like that's a big moment in a leader's career to really say like yeah I could do that I've been doing it I have some value attachment to it but like you're really good at this go do you right and like you're you're giving props to all your people like that's what I love about it and when you you mentioned it earlier and I don't know if everybody's gonna understand but what is what is churn and what are you guys measuring sure so churn is the percentage of your clients that leave every month and in businesses like ours and I would you know I know you guys have you guys have the stripe thing all set up for your coaches and stuff yet or no point of sale okay but you're working on that right so one of things was big for us is that we we are an automated monthly recurring revenue business right like I'm we don't sell three months of time and then go after a client be like hey want to do another three months because now they have to think about what was it really worth it do I want to write another check whatever right it just automatically boom boom and they pay auto every month and so for an odd for an internet automatic monthly recurring revenue company right like ours especially service business average churn is going to run about 10 per you're gonna lose about 10 percent per month of your clients so if you got a hundred clients you're gonna lose 10 of them right if you get over 10% you're way in the dangerous zone because now you got to replace all those people right losing 10 if I lose 10% of my clients per month I have to replace a hundred percent of my clients in 10 months but if my churn is 4% then I get to keep clients for two years before I have to replace those clients and then here's the thing that's even sort of that's sort of skewed shorter than it should be because what we do when you sign up as you sign up for it's a three month contract and it's month to month after that and we do that because I can't really change your life and strengthen conditioning in 30 days and for those of you guys that of our coaches and you've done this before it's a tremendous amount of work that first month you're not really making money that first month because there's so much of the kind of get to know you process and let's fix all the big major like catastrophes and whatnot and so we want to keep people for 90 days if we can't keep them after 90 days that's usually on us but here's what I found lots of people there you know it's like the January first type people will we have a handful of people that will sign up three month contract and then never really do the program they never really do it everybody and they never give it those people churn after three months or four months but if they stay for month four and five for us they never leave they say so really it's not even that they stay for 24 it's that the average stay is 24 months most of my people once they've stayed for four or five six months stay forever stay for three years for as they just never leave and so that churn number is huge and so you think about everybody's always thinking about sales and marketing sales and marketing sales and marketing if you sell a bunch of new memberships and you get a bunch of new clients but you lose a bunch of clients every month net is zero net is negative whatever what really matters is what is that net and so you know for us on average we've added between eight percent and ten percent clients per month and lost four to five percent so it comes out to a net three four five percent per month growth and that's what we're looking to do every month and so in the first couple years it was significantly faster than that but now at a multimillion dollar business with thousands of clients you know we're still growing on average five percent six percent or so seven percent per month which is pretty good nice talk to us about that secret sauce that what what is that what keeps that churns so low what builds the relationship so well and what are you preaching to your coaches like in order to be a bar about logic coach what is what what's the experience you guys are creating talk to us about that yeah those are all good questions so so first off this thing kind of starts with I am a systems and standard operating procedures guy and that sounds boring right like to run a business that's based in systems somebody actually has to sit down and write the technical writing the systems the stops right and nobody wants to do that but here's the thing you talking earlier you had mentioned you know I'm talking about my coaches and stuff and to find the leadership that do better at their job than I could do and I have found that you can you can you've probably heard this quote before but there's a there's a quote that says you can have control or you can have growth but not both right and for me I recognize if we were going to have growth I had to give up control and what that meant is you can't be a micromanager but what it doesn't mean is that they're there are always systems and standard operating procedures for every for every single position we have clear responsibilities expectations for every employee for every 1099 coach for every coach we have all those things exist and so while while it sounds sort of boring to say it all starts from there because you know I wrote the system for how to run the administration part and then when I hired my admin I got to turn that system over to the admin say this is your system now my system this is a great place to start it's probably not perfect you'll figure out the places that I've screwed this up you'll clean it up and make it better and they have ownership in that system and so they have some real responsibility and they they love to be able to do that and so it starts with we are very organized extremely organized but it keeps me from having to micromanage and so everybody has like simple reports that they report back and it's not the kind of we don't spend a bunch of time on the you know quote unquote TPS reports and you spend all your time writing like that's that's worthless right my leadership team has to spend about 60 seconds a day reporting back to me and they spend about 10 to 15 minutes per week at the end of the week doing sort of a weekend review and then we do the same thing at the end of the month we do the same thing at the end of the quarter and it's it doesn't take much time as a matter of fact takes me significantly more time to sort of combine the report every week and do the same thing monthly but it allows me to have a pulse on the business without micromanaging the business and so that's how we run the sort of you know the administration executive team that C-suite does a really good job the coaches man it's all about culture we're we are a culture intentional company we are a company that is a we have focused all along on I went out and got coaches who were already great coaches who already understood the physics and the mechanics of coaching and then I brought them into a business that was a people culture we are all about people we're all about service and so the thing that we can do and I and so here's the deal I think we're the best coaches in the world listen I know there are other great coaches out there that's not I'm not cheating on other coaches but every coach that works for me is an incredible coach but I've also worked with a lot of good coaches in the strengthening dishing community and most of them aren't very good at service and we're great at service and so the thing is is that they come for the service because the service is great and they'll often stay long-term because their progress is so good they hit PRs they reach their goals they do but like they can't reach their goals in two weeks why do they love it at two weeks I love it at two weeks because you spent time you set up the zoom call with them and you introduced them we walk people through the on-ramp process of how to get on true coach how to accept your invitation how to do your test work out that kind of start that on-ramp is huge for us like we've created an entire you know I know you guys offer like a video library we have an entire video library that we offer I mean hundreds of videos that we've made that we give our clients so anytime you we prescribe any exercise we have our own videos that plug in there so our clients can look at it like oh this is how coach wants me to do the thing and so so that goes a long way and then we make sure that we don't just focus when we coach on the X's and the O's the coaches are great at the X's and the O's but at some point if you don't reach out to your clients and go hey how are you doing in the quarantine how's life how's business how's family are you stuck in the house with the family you're not used to it or is that going okay you know you've been laid off from your job how's what's work look like those are questions that a coach should be asking of their client and and for several reasons one because again you're making those deposits into their emotional 401k but the other thing is this just like we said in the beginning isn't our primary job to continue to add stress to our clients to make them better and stronger or the performance goals they want and here's the thing if you don't have a relationship with your client you don't know when they get in a fight with their wife you don't know when they had a miscarriage you don't know when they got laid off from their job and you better know that stuff as a coach those are important things to know because if somebody stayed up all night long fighting with their wife or feel like they're about to get laid off from their job or they fought with their boss or like whatever that is or they even they got a kid stay up all night long throwing up because their little kid was sick those are stressful things stressful events that their body doesn't understand how different that is then putting a barbell on your back but we better understand that that has a major impact and so you have to have that relationship the clients and so in the end I think that when you get into a situation like now where everybody's in quarantine and 30 or 40 percent of our clients can't squat and can't deadlift and do those things that we sort of build our entire business on they stay and they stay because we've spent all the time developing the relationships outside of the squat and outside of the deadlift squats and deadlift are still extremely important we don't think you can get strong without barbells that's those are those are foundational ideas for us but that doesn't mean that we can't still provide value and support and encouragement for our clients even in times when they can't barbell squat or deadlift and so I think that's why our churn is so low it's that culture is we are a people company and we take care of not just our clients we take care of our clients like crazy the leadership team takes care of our staff my staff matter to us I am I am deeply concerned over the impact that coronavirus is having on my staff you know and and for some it doesn't have any impact and for some it has a lot and so we're trying to provide as much support and encouragement and value for those coaches because even as a business if I can't provide that value to my coaches they go coach somewhere else or they go coach on their own and for us we provide this turnkey service it's like man you get tons of support you don't have to do anything you don't have to worry about bounce credit cards we hand you your clients clients sign up and we assign them you know and it's just it's beautiful and we can because of all those things because the professionalism what we do we can charge a premium that you probably couldn't charge on your own so then your take home pay we pay pretty good we pay 70% ish somewhere in that ballpark plus for the master's classes in the academy it's even more than that and so it's a pretty good take home pay so the coaches end up taking home more than they would probably even be able to charge and there's no work to do but coach they just get to coach and develop the relationships with their clients and so I think that's why it works so well 100% you know to build a successful remote relationship though is this level of compliance that you do need to get from the client especially when you guys are working with such technical proficiencies with with movement and so there is an element of having to do some education and getting some buy-in for that coach or to get that client to like video themselves doing a movement and that's not necessarily a comfortable thing for everyone how are you how are you are your coaches coaching their clients to be okay with like putting themselves on video yep yeah it's a great question it's part I think at this point in the circle because not everybody knew we did that now this is sort of the thing we do and so it's in the it's in the original on-ramp instructions we also offer a service we have so many people that just ask about our service that we decided to start giving people sort of a taste of our service for free we call it the block experience we have a sales team their job is not to close a sale for the block experience their job is to literally just give people an experience of what it's like to be a member at block and so that people can actually video themselves really free there's no hard sell at the end there's no buy up stuff and they just video themselves squatting deadlifting doing the same the main movements and then our and then one of our coaches does a zoom call with them and walks them through the form corrections and so they get like a taste of what we do anyway and so yeah by the time people come on most people know that they're going to video themselves occasionally we get somebody that doesn't occasionally get somebody that goes to a public gym where the public gym doesn't allow that sort of refund somebody but it's pretty rare but again a lot of our people train at home and they video themselves and then here's what we found we switched a couple years ago so we no longer give or rarely give written typed feedback to our clients we started using screen recorders and so what we do is we actually we pull up our client who is squatting so they upload their videos to true coach we directly on our either dashboard or notifications and we by the way we fight off our staff as this man we're like team dashboard versus team notifications I don't know if you heard this before but like who you know you're very popular with our customer success team yeah yeah so do dashboard and then and then back check the dashboard with the notifications or do the notifications then back check it with the fact with the dashboard but anyway what in whatever view they're using they will see the see the client videos I see the squat and then they get to the coaches record them watching their client squat and they're on my podcast setup and I'm walking my clients do not pause oopsie your knees split forward right there you're on your toes now you're not on your mid foot we also have you know we have all sort of markup software you know like the like people use on like Monday night football and you can you can you can draw directly on the screen like check this out your back is rounded we don't want this sort of rounding we want arched and this is arched like the opposite of cat back and you can kind of draw it for him and so I think they love that feedback and I think it's a great change in sort of sort of NPS score type stuff so the the satisfaction that our current clients were getting when we switch from typed reviews to spoken reviews because every morning I get up I drink coffee and I basically talking to my clients as I'm breaking down their videos so it feels way more personal you know I'm on the podcast and I'm on the YouTube channel stuff and so they hear my voice anyway and I think it's cool for them like oh man it's as if I'm watching it live you know and I'm like and sometimes I even joke about it I was like I said hip drive why didn't you you know like you know in the past they can't hear me like are you not listening to my cues you know it's just that's the way you do it and you get and you tell jokes and you have fun and how's the family doing and so everybody staying safe and healthy and so again it all comes back to that relationship the coaching is imperative but I do think there are lots of companies out there I think the service is the thing that puts us over the top by the way I think there are a lot of other companies that probably don't offer very good coaching that don't know what the hell they're doing in the fitness industry but may offer really good service right you think about those boutique type fit personal training studios that your mom goes to your grandma they don't have any clue how to actually get your mom or your grandma in shape but the service is incredible right glass of that and then just still train hardcore and we've done the same thing at barba logic with the with the online coaching it's like are people train hard with barbells it gets we talk about voluntary hardship it's one of the hardest things you're ever going to do the coaching quality and the coaching excellence is fantastic but we don't ever do those things at the expense of service so it's the combination of the two that's the winning combination for us and I'm so blessed that I my first lens of fitness was powerlifting was linear progression was that progressive overload and to go through and I did four powerlifting meets and one strongman meet and two Olympic weightlifting meets and like from a fitness standpoint like I think it's really important for every trainer to learn how to go out and get strong right and what it takes and like yeah you to put yourself under 102% under that barbell and know that you have to go down and gravity back up like that is a mental fortitude and a drive like that moment for so many people whether they either choose to get in or get out like nothing I think I felt in my life is comparable to that with a big heavy back squat that's right the bottom of the position like you you have that little second your head we like I can or no I'm pressing through yeah and like that's like but like this might kill me right totally but it's like it's so much fun and I'm like I don't powerlifting anymore but like I love it it was such a good time and I really enjoy the training and it's still like I mean really I mostly train spot people here and there like a athletes here and there once in a while and it's still like alright we have our primary bilateral thing and I still use a conjugate style breakdown like of how we're gonna look because I'm like that's how I'm used to training like alright we have our vertical pressing we got the horizontal pressing we got the horizontal rolling we got some you just plug and play right but it teaches you how to at least operate and understand stress to like well you understand what the stress of a workout incurs on a body when you're lifting at those high loads where you're like yeah a bad night of sleep really messes with that day like deadlifting is not gonna go well tomorrow right like at night you might have a good day but like so it's just a great lesson so there's I also want to point out guys with maybe you're not the biggest strength coaches or you've been like you don't necessarily even lifting heavy like beyond that I it's a great lesson to go through don't you don't have to do it forever but I'm so blessed like it built so much of a foundation in my career I would heavily encourage if you're looking for something to do in fitness to learn have an experience sign up for a power lifting meter to go through it learn about what it's like doesn't mean you have to do it forever or coach it but to learn about it is the foundation of what our industry is right our industry is built off of getting people stronger right and human performance that's right and uh yeah we think strength is the basis of everything right so that strength is you get stronger makes all of the other attributes better you think about those you know the 10 qualities from crossfit or or what it like strength is the one thing that makes all the other ones better not to the be all end all like you can't just squat and then go run a marathon it's not going to work but if you take a sedentary person who has not done anything and they do three sets of five on squat weekend and week out they are going to be in better cardiovascular strict uh shape it's it's guaranteed and then coming back to the point you just made I would never hire a coach who hasn't walked through the fire of this sort of training and I want to be clear I co I don't care at all how strong the coaches right strength is important to us I say that like obviously on some level you know I don't want them to be a you know just a complete weekend but but in the in the genetic spectrum I have coaches who are very much on the far left of the genetic spectrum right they are not athletes they have they have verticals of nine inches or something you know but they've all done linear progression they've all lifted heavy and so I think it is a fallacy there's two ends of that spectrum there is I would not take coaching from somebody who hasn't walked through that fire but I also recognize that you know maybe Ronnie Coleman wasn't the best bodybuilding coach and maybe you know these guys in our world strongest man are probably not the best strength coaches in the world because when you take I'm not throwing any in particular person under the bus but when you take genetics and drugs and all these sort of things and you put like and then you're trying to apply that to the 45 year old executive it doesn't work but when you have other coaches who are also potentially 45 year old executives who are ex-surgeons who are ex-attorneys who are engineers and they've done linear progression and they've squatted heavy and they've deadlifted heavy and they've walked through that fire and maybe their squat isn't 500 pounds maybe it's 275 maybe their deadlift is 300 pounds or 400 pounds and not 700 pounds they still know what they're asking of you when they program you and in a thing like linear progression linear progression is a blast for about six weeks and then the second six weeks sucks right because you're like oh man I just squatted 265 for three sets of five on Wednesday and it almost killed me and I'm gonna come in on Friday and I'm gonna put five more pounds on the bar you better know as a coach what that feels like you like you don't sleep well on Thursday because you know you got to get up on Friday and squat five more pounds you're like I don't know if I can do it you know and then you start to squat it and you got the music playing in the gym and it drops an octave while you talk about getting in the bottom of the squat and that music that that that that's what you hear right and your eyes go from like I can see fine to all of a sudden it's red to all of a sudden it's black and I can't see anything in there but you know you should know what that feels like because you're gonna have to walk your clients through that listen a 22 year old X division one athlete doesn't get scared with that stuff but a 65 year old lady the first time she gets dizzy in the bottom of a squat she is gonna freak out and you better know how to walk her through it's okay you're gonna be okay I'm right here we use squat racks we have safety pins where like those sort of things matter and yes I know what it feels like because I've been there too and it is kind of scary at first and then you realize like you'll be okay you know and so gosh you have to walk through that fire yeah I think and I don't know if it's not talked about enough or at least maybe I just don't see it I don't look for it enough but teaching people how to learn how to fail a lift is not taught enough no it's like you see like oh oh that was an interesting solution to fixing that problem right you're like oh that like that needs to be a better education system from the get go like if you hit the bottom of the squat and you are you know you're not coming back up what's your strategy if there's no pins right and there better be pins it better be yeah like fire you if there's no pins think about it think about it this way there's different ways to do squats right so you think about you watch those Olympic athletes and most and most Olympic weight lifters genetically are short-legged and long torso so they automatically squat more upright right you don't even have to understand the physics just know that they're like very vertical torso well a very vertical torso squat you you can't get up out of the hole what can you do with the bar I just throw it off my back especially if there's bumper plates on just throw it off well if you're if you're a short torsoed lifter and a long-legged lifter or a low bar squat lifter and you're bent way over and you're really horizontal guess what happens when you throw it off your back it lands on your sacrum it doesn't go to the ground right so you can't you can't throw a low bar squat off your back you have to set it on the pins and so we don't allow any clients to squat in a in a like they have to have a squat rack with safeties period like we no questions asked that's the way that's the way this works now if somebody doesn't have it in the beginning we don't take them heavy we do stuff that's like way low we don't really use RPE and programming but for purposes of like it's RPE 5 6 whatever like there's no chance they're going to miss the thing we might do that and then we're like listen we got to buy some safeties we're going to get a better set up with that we take that stuff serious and bench press same thing like we don't let people bench press without like you think about it like bench press is more dangerous in the squat right you can't get it up you gotta put it on your throat so there better be a place to catch that bar so we're well that's another thing that you know we spent a lot of time on that content we put out focusing on safety and making sure people doing it right make sure people know how to miss correctly and then there's things like the deadlift where people there's a governor in your brain when you pull a heavy deadlift that when it starts to get real heavy you'll pick it up and it'll still be going up it'll go slow and you'll be like uh-uh and you just put it down and then we have to have that talk with our clients to go hey I need 5 seconds of grinding on this thing your back was flat it was fine it wasn't rounded you're not gonna hurt yourself it's just hard and hard is what we do that's what we do there's a refining process for us far beyond the physical of this voluntary hardship of lifting we we have seen it refine our people not just physically but mentally emotionally spiritually socially all of those things if they're doing it for the right reasons they become better humans out of it right so that and then here's the thing we choose voluntary hardship for most of our life and training so that when we're stuck with involuntary hardship you know like when we're laid off from our job in the middle of the coronavirus or when you get sick with the coronavirus or like these things that we're experiencing right now we're better able to handle the stress because we've forced ourselves to do these hard things and so we've talked a lot to our clients over the last few weeks like this is why we train for this very type of thing right um so it matters to us and we we consider all of those things on a little deeper level I think that a lot of people do not that not anybody but like I do think it's more than just lifting I don't you know we don't have a bunch of meat heads we're not just squatting we're squatting for a purpose we're squatting for a quality of life I have a lady that I coach she's 84 years old she's a double hip replacement knee replacement her she's a back soft fuse together you know she's like a church organist I trained her since she was 79 she had never been in a gym before until she was 79 I trained her son and I started training Miss Sybil and I am this is going to sound morbid but but I'm serious about it Sybil's quality of life was declining tremendously when I started to coach her she had a hard time getting off the toilet she couldn't get in and out of her car and her brain I mean incredibly sharp but her body was dying and so and her kids don't live here in town she'd been a widow for like seven years she's all by herself her next stop was the nursing home and she trained this way she squats she deadlifts by the way she does she's 84 years old she down deadlifts like 155 for sets of five she's 84 right here's the thing yet and I'll get choked up when I think about it but like Sybil's quality life was going to decline over the next three four five years she was going to die instead I don't know when Sybil's going to die but here's what I know her quality life is going to be fucking awesome until she does and then one day she's going to die and that's the way I want to die I don't want to see I don't want to be in hospice and watch my body waste away for six seven eight years and so this stuff matters again when you're 22 what how about when you're 17 years trying to like be a starter on the football team that's important to you but like in the grand scheme of things it really matters to this population and so we have a population that we can improve their quality of life tremendously so that their marriage is better dealing with their kids and their grandkids are better interacting with kids and grandkids they're better at work they're better recovered they get better sleep those things matter as they get older in in life you know and so so that's that's what we're pursuing and that's what we try to do and I think that's why I have so much joy in training people who are who are 40 plus 35 plus and not so much the young but and by the way let me before I say that we train young people to we've got we've got programs my dogs are going nuts I guess I'm at my door we train young people to we've got youth programs and high school programs and we have coaches that are like crazy passionate about that stuff and we and because they're incredible coaches we allow them to do that passion we call it it's that hub and spoke model it's we're the hub and they figure out how to take our our system and and run it out on the spoke but that's not where my passion is my passions with training 50 year old men and women and it's and it's great I love it so it's brought me a lot of joy for sure well and it shows right like you know and I think that people need to I want people to understand that when you reach success in the industry to where you can be in a spot where you can like I have a great team now I'm in a spot like that comes out of an appreciation because Matt's been grinding for a lot of the career right like you do it because you love it and I love that he's just right now just overly passionate that he just does this because he cares about helping people and it's that reason it's that relationship that he's built where he genuinely gives a fuck about his employees and they care about their clients to what they have the business that they have so if your coach listening to this wondering like how do I make it in this game I know you didn't hear us give you like do this thing or have this program or do this style it was like hey if you're gonna put out good content put out content that's like of value care about it have something that people care about and what they need and have an audience that you want to help that you're qualified to help and then deliver an experience like look how Matt talks about it like no one else is doing this you recognize other people do good businesses but he's like no one else is doing this because we're doing a kick-ass job and they are 4% churn guys holy shit right when it's when the message is with the barbell and they are that's a smaller audience than like general fitness right I come from the audience and it's like oh shit look what they're doing they're providing the service this relationship this value that they're killing it and that's something that most coaches need to take away as like oh how do I add that service into my game how do I add that relationship building piece into my game because you know if it's the barbell I want you to be with the barbell I want you to learn to get strong but if you're doing it because you're reaching pre and post natal and you don't use a barbell and you like do it with build a really great relationship put out that women and women and men you know need to hear about pre and post natal and that family really whatever that is and show people you're an expert and treat people like you care and that's how you build a business like barbell logic to where you can have an amazing stat of kick-ass people and where he's like man I got a bunch of people right and then now get to sit here and like oh man now he literally gets to put his care into like I care about my members I care about my employees who are affected because of those members he's not having to worry about like oh shit am I okay right he had the fucking virus and he's wondering about his people and his business so that's relationship man that's why these guys this that's why they do the great business that's why they are who they are Matt thank you so much for joining us man it was chat with you where can people learn more about our logic barbell logic easy right you can't find us then it's you don't deserve to learn listen I bragged on my marketing girl listen our SEO rocks you if you put in the word barbell I would like we're in the top one or two barbell logic anywhere barbell logic dot com barbell logic on all the social media barbell logic on youtube easy to find I'm at Reynolds strong on Instagram and some of the social media I at this point again it's been really crazy I've mostly transitioned over to just it's it was some there was an incredible amount of freedom when the business eclipsed me in followers and subscribers and stuff like I don't have to be that guy anymore you know I can just like actually be private it's fine and so yeah check it out and and certainly I know a lot of your coaches so we've got a lot of great a lot of great content out there for you those of you guys are true coach users please use our videos in the true coach library they're fantastic pull them off of youtube stick them in there I'm happy to provide those to anybody we've got and we at this point we've got body weight stuff kettlebell stuff all the barbell stuff anything you ever want to do in a million years with a barbell we've got all that stuff and so utilize that as much as possible barbell logic podcast is a systematic progression of learning this business and the and the fitness industry and so I would start with episode one and start working like why strength why barbells why squats like those and it's and now it's like much more in depth 300 episodes later it's a lot more in depth but yeah there's all sorts of fun resources out there for you and it's it's been very satisfying for us that at this point I have that library of content that I've built so again if something happens to me my kids my grandkids you know people that nobody they can go back and they can be like well this is what dad was all about like he's all like just about everything I've known I know at this point I put out there you know I don't have a lot more to talk about so yeah check us out barbell logic dot com and would you know would love to help you out anyway you're always going to shoot me an email again emails are easy to find on the website and happy to help anybody I can do thank you so much for the time it was a pleasure glad you're safe and sound and we're able to have this chat and looking forward to getting together with you and getting some banks my already learned so enjoy your time brother and make sure your friends and family are safe and enjoy your day thank you to you buddy