 Explain how it's not against his character other than saying he's old. I'm saying it's not against his character because he's old. He's a human being. I literally just said not to say because he's old, but you immediately said because he's old. Let me say this in a Disney fanatical Star Wars universe. Oh my god. Can princesses fly through space? So we're just assuming you watched everything and at least retained some of what we said in our respective videos. Yeah, I watched the movie and then I watched your video, watched his, listened to his videos more than YouTube or whatever. Since you're the one with the point of contention here, I'll let you just start off with whatever subject you want to. Well, for my notes, here it is. So one of the first things that I had a problem with in your video is you saying that the only three good performances in this film, Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Andy Serkis, right? Those were the only three good performances that you thought, those are the only three actors you thought gave a good performance in this film. I mean, they're the only ones that stood out. Those are your exact words, though. Okay. I mean, the only one I really particularly hated, well, no, only two I really particularly hated were Ray and Rose. Everyone else was just kind of meh. So Ray gave a bad, Rose gave a bad, also Finn and Poe. I specifically said the only two I outright hated were Ray and Rose. I don't know why you decided to add Finn and Poe there. They were mediocre to you, or they just they weren't significant enough for you to give them any kind of praise. They just weren't significant. I didn't really have a problem with them. They just didn't stand out at any degree. So I'm just going to start from the opening of the film. And I guess just why I think that it's good to me, I guess. And that's probably the best way you can just argue against that. Do what you want. And we can just go from there. Okay, go ahead. So we have General Hux coming up on the rebel base. The first part of his video was talking about how he could have just destroyed them right off the bat. That was one of the contentious he had. He could why didn't he just destroy them right off the bat when he arrived at the rebel base? Yeah, go on. Arrogance. Arrogance is going to be a big thing in this film. And it's just going to keep coming back. And I just want to let you know that. Mauler, you want to address that? Because I'm sure you have a lot to say about the arrogance thing. Why do you say that? No, no, I want to see what Mauler has to say. Because I kind of know what he's got to say. But you know. Yeah, no, it's a cop out to me if you ever argue that a move by a character was made because they're stupid, arrogant, rushed or whatever when the film hasn't really established it. Why does this film keep playing, fuck? Why do you have the film on? Just going through the scenes so that I can I have notes, but I'm also going through the scenes so I can have visuals too. OK. OK, you just go ahead with what you were saying. When you have, say for example, Kylo rushes at a bunch of people to try and kill them instead of thinking, maybe a good example actually is in the prequels. Anakin runs at Count Dooku when Obi-Wan's like, don't do that. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. We need to establish that we're going to talk about this film. Is this just to prove your point about arrogance or are you going to kind of go into the whole show? Well, he can use examples about, I mean, if he needs to pull an example from another film to prove his point, that's fine. We're still talking about points as quick as I can, but interruptions aren't cool. So the attack of the clones, he runs at Dooku. Obi-Wan is like, what are you doing under that? And he gets fucked up. So that would be arrogance. If someone argued to me, that was a stupid decision. It's almost a plot hole. I'd be like, no, no, that's arrogance. Hux shooting a target that is stative and they can easily find out is empty instead of the massively important target, the Radus, which is the last large cruiser. Hang on, wait, wait, wait, wait, are we now? I thought we were, you skipped that a little bit. Go ahead. The beginning scene. Yeah, well, we can talk about some of the other stuff, but go ahead, yeah. Are we talking about the fact that Hux decides to shoot the base on the planet instead of the Radus? No, no, when he first arrived at the planet, he didn't just destroy it outright. The planet? The planet, the rebel base, whatever. I mean, that's kind of what he did, but... I was going to say, isn't that what he did? He did it later on. He didn't do it until they all, until they escaped. In his argument was that, why didn't he just do it right off the bat? And I'm saying it's because of his arrogance. I mean, he kind of did shoot at them right off the bat. I was going to say, he shot them basically. I don't have a problem with that. He takes, what, like two minutes extra to finally shoot them. My problem is less with that. It's more with the fact that he chose a retarded target instead of the Radus. The Radus is the rebel ship, right? The one that they escaped from, right? Instead, he shot with ship. He said he shot the base. He shot the empty base, yeah. But that was before, okay. I would be discombobulated of where we are in the beginning scene now. Like in the first five seconds... Wasn't that scene... Okay, I'm at the scene now. And they barely escaped, is what I'm saying. So it's not like he even took that much time that Poe was doing to distract him to shoot at the base because they got out in the nick of time. That's not what we're talking about though. Why do you keep going back to the fucking base thing? I was going to say, did... Well, did you make a point about that? Because I didn't in my videos. I don't even remember ever talking about that. I think it's... The fact that he gets stalled by Poe, that's relatively okay with me. I'm not going to have a problem with that usually. It's more to the fact that they shoot the base instead of the Radis. I think I skipped over the base part and just went right to the space battle because I mean, it was such a short part of the movie. I was like, okay, whatever. Let's just go to the part where actually this shit happens. Yeah, because the obvious problem is if he had shot the Radis first, the film would have been over, but he didn't because of reasons. Okay, I think he has to have his big villain speech. And this... That was kind of reinforced later on when they brought... When the bombers were starting to attack, the dreadnoughts, he fucking... The... What's the name of the guy that's right below General Hux, the older gentleman? What's his rank? Who? I don't know. I don't know why we... The one that he... Going off point. Very, very simply, why did he shoot the base instead of the Radis? Just that's just a question. I thought the Radis was just escaping. I thought he just shot at them before they escaped. No, no. I haven't seen the film in a while now, but I know for a fact that the two targets are there and they shoot the base first, and then they realign to shoot the ship, but the ship just escapes before they can do it, so why didn't they shoot it first? Hang on, I'm looking at it right now. Oh, my God. You know, I'm kind of confused as to why you need to have the movie open. I mean, I would think that if you're going to try and debate us on this topic, you'd actually have, like, any basic knowledge of the movie without having to watch it while we're talking about it. Sorry, I'm kind of coalescing my notes, and they're just vastly made. Anyway, why didn't he shoot at the rebel? Why didn't he shoot at the fucking... Okay. I think in the film, I think you haven't seen it in a while, and that he barely escaped the planet just before he blew up, the rebels did, that were still there on the base. Yeah, no, there's only one transport that escapes just before he shoots in. It has Leia's daughter, well, real-life daughter, sorry, and a handful of other rebels while the Raddus is stuffed full of rebels or resistance members, I suppose. So was he, wait, was he not firing at that ship that was still at the rebel base? No, he fired at the base, and he hoped to, I assume, kill some people, but the fact is it makes no sense as a tactical choice as opposed to the Raddus since the Raddus can actually escape. Why doesn't that make sense of the tactical choice not to destroy the enemy's base? Because it's fucking empty. Okay, the base cannot move, and it is empty. The Raddus is an active ship it is the last great resource of the resistance. And carrying their leader on it. Every leader, Akbar is still alive at that point. Oh yeah, I forgot about Akbar. But they were still, wait, were they still detecting life signs on the planet? It doesn't matter because any life scanner would tell you the Raddus is stuffed filled with life forms versus the base, and the base cannot move. So you can shoot it after it takes five seconds to reload. The base did have rebels on it. It had rebels were still on the base. Yes. So why does that not make tactical sense to shoot it and destroy it? Because the base cannot move. Okay, let's put it this way. You need to have, you need to prioritize your targets. So if there is a ship with the, two of the biggest rebel leaders on it being Leia and Akbar, which do you shoot first? The stationary base that's not going to move anywhere or the ship that has the two leaders of the entire resistance on it? But the ship was moving. I thought the ship was already moving. Yes, it's moving. That's why. No, it wasn't moving in the hyperspace. So why not? Okay. So they can shoot an easy target that for sure has rebel bases on, for sure has rebels on it and they're going to kill them because it can't move. It's a base and another target that's going into hyperspace. They weren't going into hyperspace. Hang on. They weren't going into hyperspace yet. You're arguing that they might miss the Raddus and that's why they wouldn't go for it. I guess that's a possibility, but I'm saying it doesn't, shooting the base is not, it's not, what did you say? It's tactical. It's, you came there to destroy the base. They can't use the base anymore. You definitely want to make sure that they don't go back to it. I mean, they do go to an old, they go to an old rebel base in this movie that could have been destroyed. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Well, that's just me trying to reinforce it. But if you don't want to take that for what it is, it's whatever. Because it has nothing to do with this scene. I'm saying if they destroy the base, why is that not a tactical decision? The base can't go back to it. What do you now understand? That's a strawman. I didn't say they shouldn't destroy the base. I'm saying they shouldn't destroy the base instead of the Raddus. Okay. It was more important to destroy the Raddus. I'm arguing that the Raddus was a moving target. It was probably already charging into hyperspace. It was probably already charging into hyperspace. No, it fucking was. Okay. They didn't charge into hyperspace until after the Star Destroyer was destroyed. So there was plenty of fucking time to shoot it. Not only that, but again, not seeing the movie in a month. And I can even quote you that the reason they don't leave as the Raddus is because they haven't collected all the people from the base yet. And that's why he should have shot the Raddus because it wasn't even moving. Poe wasn't with the Raddus, so they would have had to leave without him. That is a stativ, massively important target. And it's not even the base. So it's just an easy shot. And why would they aim at it if they were going to shoot it? But at the end of the day, they're not going to get... At the end of the day, he knows the... What's his name? Like, we're getting his name already with the fuck. Hux. Hux knows that they can't get away at the end of the day. Right? They can't. The base? Am I wrong? They can't get away. Are you telling me the reason they didn't shoot the Raddus immediately is because, fuck it, it doesn't matter, they won't get away anyway. The possibility? What is more easier to hunt down? A planet or a ship? I'm saying he's an... Okay, I'll go back to my arrogance thing. He's arrogant. He knows that they can't get away. Oh no, I'm going to use this because it's... No, you can try, please, to make up an argument that isn't fucking retarded. I can count to that one anyway. Hux says that a character is arrogant. That I think the character is arrogant and the film reinforces his arrogance is a stupid argument. Yes. Let me count to that argument anyway. It doesn't matter. It's a bad argument, but I can counter it. Another person made this argument in a video and I counted it in my own videos. So why is it that Hux says, why can't we destroy this tiny ship? And then his subordinate says, well, sir, they're smaller and lighter than us, which means they can outrun us. And he says, okay, then it's only a matter of time. He's frustrated that they can't kill them immediately. The arrogant argument does not apply to Hux. Did you not see him get bitch slapped into the floor by his supreme leader? That was after the fucking facts. That was after the battle. That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. What does that have to do with anything? I am telling you that he wants to kill them as fast as possible. You're telling me that he doesn't mind chasing them because he's arrogant. Wait, after they came out of hyperspace and they followed them out of hyperspace, you're talking about when they were slowly leading them on a chase out of the perimeter of the Star Destroyer because their shields were up. They were too far away. Yeah, frustrated because he can't kill them immediately. I'm saying he was frustrated. He couldn't kill them immediately because fear. What? Fear, was this not after the scene where he got bitch slapped into the floor? We're still talking about the first scene. Hang on. You're saying that Snoke only let Hux know that he demands the death of the resistance at that point before that Hux didn't realize that Snoke wants them dead? I'm saying he let his arrogance get to him in that mission. And after he gets bitch slapped into the floor, he gets his mind a little bit straight and trying to hurry up and destroy them rather than do his little usual guy rant thing. Why did he destroy the base if he's so arrogant to not destroy the ratas? That's what he came there to do. Damage control. Damage control. Snoke, General Snoke, I destroyed the base. I mean, they got away. But we also have a tracker and we destroyed the base too. Maybe no bitch slapped me into the floor. Oh, you bitch slapped me into the base. So what I'm guessing here is you're describing a personality trait that just matches exactly what he does. You're saying he's a bad kid. Are you saying that he's a bad character because he's inconsistent at this point in the film? No, that's a straw man. He's inconsistent. Okay, what are you saying? What are you saying about his character right now? What is wrong? He makes a poor decision for no good reason. Make the film carry on. I'm saying he's making poor decisions because he's letting his arrogance get to him. And I was an arrogant move to not shoot the ratas. Wait, I forgot to reference another scene. I forgot to reference another scene. And this was going back to the guy that was right below ranking of General Hugs. He said something to him about when... Ah, fuck. When the bomber showed up or when Poe was going through destroying the turrets on the dreadknot, he said, we need to scramble our fighters. And then the man says, yes, like five bloody minutes ago. I'm saying that that was one of the moments where the film reinforces that character's arrogance. Saying that he, this guy who's below Hugs, should be a superior officer to him because he knows that they should have deployed those fighters ages ago. He's older than him, and he's probably more experienced. And yet Hugs is the leader, and his arrogance is getting the way of finishing this mission. All right, so we're going to need to rewind just a little bit. Arrogance, I'm assuming we all agree on this, is essentially the process where you don't take into account a lot of things just because you just assume that you're going to win. Sure. You think you're that powerful. So why does it behoove his arrogance to not shoot the Radis? I'm not sure, I'm not understanding. To not shoot the Radis is a strange move for somebody who's very arrogant about their own power. Oh wait, I thought, okay, my rebuttal to that, my thing against that is just he knew that they could track them. That's another part of his arrogance. And whether you see that as, I know you're not going to see it as arrogance because you just think it's stupid, but I see that as his arrogance and thinking, well, at the end of the day, I'm going to destroy the rebel base like I came here to do, and we're going to track them, and we're going to play them along because I'm an evil, laughing Disney villain, and I'm fallible. Like, I'm not sure if I'm playing myself good enough. The thing is, that is poor writing. To make your characters make irrational and ridiculous decisions in order to service the plot. It's not good. We could have done this in a better way. We could have had Poe disable their main canon as soon as he... But I was trying to reinforce the point that this is, Cooks is a young general in a extreme source of power right below. Is he not right below Kylo Ren or something? Okay, let me put it this way. If Hux is this fucking retarded, then how in the hell is he in this position? Well, they're not going to explain that because that'll be in some kind of book. If he fucking... I don't see why... Do you want a backstory of General Hux? You want a general... Okay, no. No, no, no, no. Calm down. The problem here is that you're saying, ah, you see, he's not very talented, he's not very intelligent, and this is why these decisions make sense. So we're saying, okay, if he is so incompetent, how in the hell did he get to that position? I'm not... Okay, I'm not making a claim of his incompetence or a claim that he's stupid. I think that he is smart. He is devious. I mean, in the first... Okay, I'm not trying to reference the Force Awakens, but he did have some kind of rivalry with Kylo Ren at first. And I don't think that's a detriment to his character being... I don't think you should take that away from him, just because I think you should equate arrogance with stupidity, because the smartest people in the world can be the most arrogant fuckers, right or wrong. Okay, I'm saying, how did he get to his position if he only made stupid decisions? I'm saying, I'm saying, if they're arrogant decisions, how did he get there? I'm saying, in this position of power, his arrogance is magnified tenfold, he's pulling his dick out, and he's like, he's fucking... He's a general. I mean, he's still a general. He can still dictate shit as a general, I'm sure, or as Snoke would have cut his head off by now if he was just that incompetent. And I think even Snoke says a remark about him or something that he's smart, but he's also something... I don't really know what the exact quote was, but we can get there. He essentially talks about him being a useful idiot, but why would you have an incompetent, useful idiot instead of just a useful idiot? As in, the guy below Hux, as you've pointed out, was clearly more skilled at this than Hux was. Why not put him in power and still control him? Everyone in the First Order still is witness to Snoke's orders. No, it's the water. It's not a crazy step to just say, yeah, this is very constructed. They've definitely lowered Hux's IQ levels at the beginning of this film in order to have a very tension-filled scene where our heroes just make it out, but not without losses. It's just not very well put together. Yeah, the whole writing thing? I mean, like I said, Moller, I argued with this guy for like two hours yesterday in the writing thing. Well, I was gonna say, we should move on because we've made everything clear if he doesn't want to listen, that's fine. Wait, I don't understand. Is the point of this to change each other's minds because I... Yes, the whole point of us even acknowledging your existence is the fact that we think we can change your... Yes, because we think we can change your mind. No, I thought we came here to just fucking talk about the movie and explain why I like it and why you don't. I didn't come here to get my mind changed. I like this movie. I really like Get Out when I watched it. Then I watched E.R.'s video on it and now I went from thinking I like it and it's good to I like it and it's bad. Like, that's the difference here. You can like it as much as you want. I don't intend to change your emotional reaction. I was saying, you say you want me to acknowledge that you want me to acknowledge all the bullshit writing that you claim is in the film, the bullshit character changes. Not that I claim is in the film, the ones that are in the film. Oh, okay, so I guess it's just my... It's got to be my thing to try to disprove that, which I think I've been doing. It doesn't matter. It's two people who have their mindset. You obviously have your mindset. I'm giving my evidence against it. Okay, hold on. You don't get to say that we're the ones who have our mindset when you literally just said that no matter what we're going to say in this, you're not going to change your mind. Yep. I meant that I'm not going to change my mind that I like this film. I'm not going to say, oh, Star Wars the Jedi is horrible at the end of this. I'm not going to say that. Okay, well, look, I like the room. Terrible movie. One of the worst movies ever made by far. Funny movie, though. Really entertaining. I still watch it. I also like Battle Los Angeles. Really, really stupid movie, but I find it entertaining. I can find bad movies entertaining every now and again. So we're not saying that you have to stop liking this movie or stop finding it entertaining. We're trying to point out all these problems that you're just denying. I acknowledge the problems. I'm giving points against them. Well, that just comes down to argumentation. And I'm sorry, but like I said, fundamentally at the beginning, if you're telling me a character makes a ridiculous decision due to a character trait, that's just, it doesn't even correlate. It's like, if he was truly arrogant, he would go for the writers. So like I said, we're stone mold, but there's who may as well move on to a different topic. In the beginning scene, you're used to the words fat Asian bitch and Asian bitch. Oh my God. Are we really going to go on that? Oh, no, no, no. I'm not going to go into a race and shit because we'll be here forever. But I, that's one of the performances in the film that I feel like you should give credit to. Okay. Rose. Okay. Not before Rose, Rose's sister that died. You mean the one that had no lines in the whole movie and was in there for a moment? She like looks emotional. I'm saying that her performance was powerful enough to convey her conviction for the resistance. Okay. Who cares about a character whose name we don't even know? She was in the movie for a minute. Why the hell would I care about her? I'm asking, why do you have to reduce her character or just the actor? I don't know. Wolferford's a hero as an Asian bitch. I was referring to Rose as the fat Asian bitch. You're Asian bitch. You said the Asian bitch and the fat Asian bitch. And I'm just saying, no, I'm going to tell you what I said because I made the video and I know what I said. I'd never even, the only time I even referenced her sister was to say it's her sister. I never even said anything about her. You did call her an Asian bitch. Okay. Well, you're lying or you're just completely delusional. What is your point anyway that that demeans her performance? No, I'm saying she gave a good performance and she conveyed her conviction for the resistance even without lines. Okay. What does that have to do with me criticizing Rose? There's nothing to do with Rose. I'm talking about that character right now. Okay. I didn't even say anything about that character. I'm asking you right now. Did she not give a convincing performance? I don't fucking care. Okay. Let's move on to the final. I was going to say she's Bailey in the film for like five seconds. So I don't really know how it really matters. It just goes back to performances. We're just going to keep coming back to that because I have a... Okay. Well, how about we talk about things that are actually objective rather than my opinion on who performed well? Yeah. So next point. The pimp thrown rune scene with Kylo Ren and Snoke. Are we talking about the first one or the second one where the fight happened? The first one where he calls him a boy and you said he force slaps him away or something like that. Yeah. Did you not like that scene? Is that part of his inconsistent character work? I didn't really give a shit about it because we didn't really get any important information. We didn't get any important information in the scene where he meets his master. His master calls him a boy. Okay. So his master's a dickhead. Cool. Every sith is a dickhead. Yeah. My actual problem with that scene was that it didn't... That was one of the most powerful scenes in the movie. I don't think you understand what powerful means. No, no, no. Let me explain why I like this scene. He comes in. General Hux is standing there. He tells General Hux to go because he congratulated him on finding the rebel, tracking the rebel ship, whatever. He comes in. He tells Kylo Ren a good job for Kylo Ren. It's a whole spiel about him. I don't want to be misquoted here. What? Yeah, of course, no, no. Fine. Yeah, what Jack Williams just said. The scene only exists to get rid of Kylo's mask. That's pretty much the point of it. And it doesn't reinforce their relationship whatsoever. I don't know why Kylo would be following Snoke. Not to mention it's a direct contradiction to what Snoke's last line of The Force Awakens is, being that Kylo Ren needs to... Yeah, he needs to complete his training and he does absolutely no training in the entire movie. Except they do have a throwaway line that apparently killing Rey would have been finishing his training, which is the most cop-out continuity I've ever seen. Him destroying his helmet is a powerful scene because it shows that he no longer gives a fuck about Snoke. He said that he gave everything to him. He gave to him and the dark side, and he called him a boy in a mask. This man nearly single-handedly exterminated the Jedi the second time, and he called him a boy in a mask. You couldn't see the conviction in his face? No, Wolf, do you want to respond to that? I'm trying to figure out how to respond to that. I mean, first off, he didn't single-handedly almost wipe out all the Jedi because there were the Knights of Ren that Ryan Johnson just decided to not even talk about. Yeah, that was cool. But I don't even know if that's... Is that canon? That is canon. Yes, because we saw it in The Force Awakens briefly. Is that canon? The Force Awakens is the one that... The Knights of Ren. Wait, the Knights of Ren... I don't... I remember reading that, but I forgot what actually happened in it. Wait. This was set up by The Force Awakens. It was in the movie. Snoke literally says, Kylo Ren, the master of the Knights of Ren. Okay, thanks for reminding me of that. So he didn't single-handedly do it. He had other people helping him. Well, he fucking... Okay, that doesn't deter from what I'm saying. He... Snoke is belittling him. He's saying, I've done all this shit for you. I've done all this shit for you and the dark side. And you're insulting me and calling me a boy in a mask after I've killed my father. Killed my mother. Well, he didn't kill his mother yet, but he's going to go kill his mother. No, he doesn't. And he doesn't eventually kill her, but at the end of the day, he leads the squad that kills his mother. He didn't find the shot, but he... He knew that it was gonna be... That she was gonna kill him. She did not die. Did you watch the film? He doesn't know that. He does. It's The Force, man. How would he not know? I mean, you're the one that literally said that, uh, was it Rose and Finn? They had The Force, and that's why Canobite worked in their favor. So let's just say The Force fixes everything. Yeah, The Force is the best plot hole villain. We'll get back to that. But like I said, this... This proves the determination of his character. He fucking is called a boy in a mask after killing his father in cold blood. And this man force lightnings him away, and then he destroys his helmet, signifying that he doesn't give a fuck. There is no Sith loyalty. Except for the fact that he's loyal to Snoke all the way up until like the end of the movie. Snoke tells him to take his mask off. It's ridiculous. Kylo then destroys the mask. This means he does not give a shit about Snoke. Following his orders directly means he doesn't care about him. Can you say that again? Snoke tells him to take off the mask. It's ridiculous. Kylo then destroys the mask, and you're saying that means that he just doesn't give a fuck about Snoke. Oh, no, no, no. You're forgetting about all the stuff in between that. He's not here though. I'm focusing on that point. He's sick to him. I'm talking about that stuff. I'm focusing on that point. But I'm saying that stuff is important. Calling him a boy in a mask and not acknowledging all the shit that he's done for him. I know that Ryan Johnson wanted to kill Snoke from the get-go, so he needed to make a scene that would at least justify Kylo's decision, but it spits in the face of Force Awakens once again. Because it's supposed to reinforce our idea that, hey, Kylo follows Snoke, right? He chose him over all of the Jedi and his family, and yet this guy pisses on him constantly. Why would he possibly be with this guy? Oh, he's going to kill him later. That's why we're having this scene. Okay. Are you giving this film any kind of leeway for being a Star Wars Disney film? No, because we... I'm sorry, what does that mean exactly? Okay, look. I'm not... Okay, look, I don't know about business and shit, but George Lucas sold Star Wars. He sold Star Wars to Disney. He has no creative say in it, right? He basically sold the soul of Star Wars to Disney, right? He fucking... When the person who created Star Wars is not on the set of the film, is not have any kind of say, any kind of creative anything on the film, it's just, it's going to have lower... It's going to be different. It's going to have... It's going to do shit that's going to fucking... I'm saying, did you walk into this movie with expectations that Disney, a corporation that bought this movie for billions of dollars, wasn't going to make massive changes? They're a company that's... I get it, I get it. So first point, all I referenced was The Force Awakens, which is the Disney property. So I don't know why you've just counted with that, but secondly, it is a sequel to existing properties. If they fuck up the prequels, set law and rules, that makes it a bad film. Well, among other reasons. I need you, can you explain to me how this scene directly conflicts with any of the two characters in the first... Hold on, hold on. Because I'm not going to answer that quick. I'm asking. Yeah, and I'm going to answer the question that you just presented before that before you decided to move away from it, because you made this same exact argument to me yesterday and it's bullshit. So from now on, I really don't want you to start saying that the reason we don't like this movie is because it's Disney Star Wars. Because that's retarded. I wasn't trying to make that point. I know I made that point. No, that was the point you made yesterday and the point that you were just making now. You're insinuating that because it's Disney, we have expectations that it should be just like George Lucas' Star Wars, as if we don't have problems with George Lucas' Star Wars. That was me asking a question. When you walked into this movie, did you feel, were you under the impression that this Disney Star Wars film was going to adhere 100% to all of the lore from movies decades old, from a creator that isn't there anymore? Yes, I should expect that there should be some fucking consistency between films. I don't care if it's a different creator. If you're not good at being consistent, I mean, there's something wrong with you. Even The Force Awakens was more consistent. I just, I'd love to know what you define as a good sequel when it's supposed to carry on the story. If it just breaks it, I don't see how this works. I'm trying, what I'm saying is that the films are decades old and they're owned by a completely different company with the creator of the films not there anymore with no say. And I'm saying that the changes, the, I'm not nitpicky in the video that you showed me where he just went into so much about how, oh, why aren't they using these ships instead of these ships? And why aren't they fucking this and that? Like, it's a, I'm saying, I don't want to use this as an argument, but I feel like I have to. It is this Disney fanatical Star Wars universe with flying space princesses doing- Just not an argument. That's not, okay, look, I'm not trying to exactly form an argument. What I'm saying is when something like that happens, can we agree that that is the direction that Star Wars is going to go into and they're not going to fucking stop because these movies are making fucking bank. So we should just ignore all criticism. Whether or not it makes money. I'm saying, no, I'm not saying we should ignore the criticisms. I'm saying that as soon as George Lucas sold the Soul of Star Wars and they slapped the Disney banner on it that meant that they could do whatever the fucking hell they wanted with it. Yes, they can do whatever they want with it. That doesn't mean that it's automatically good. Yeah, it means it's bad as most of the time because they make horrible decisions. Let me say this, in a Disney fanatical Star Wars universe. Oh my God. Can princesses fly through space? Apparently, and it's fucking stupid. Absolutely, yes. It's stupid, but in a Disney fanatical Star Wars universe, can it be possible? Clearly, yes. We don't have to have that question. We know it's possible now. We don't give a shit if it's Disney or not. We're coming at this as Star Wars fans in general. Will you give this film? Will you? I'm asking you, will you give this film leeway for being a Disney fanatical Star Wars? What does that mean? What does leeway mean? Did you have a problem? I can't remember if you had a problem with Leia flying through space. Yes, everyone in their right mind had a problem with that. I did not have a problem with it. Well, that's because you're not in your right mind. Okay, I'm saying that it's a Disney fanatical Star Wars universe. What the fuck is this Disney fanatical bullshit? What the hell do you mean by that? I'm saying they're taking the force and they're expanding on it in ways that George Lucas would never do because he made three shitty fucking movies and they got it from him. So because it's Disney and because it's no longer George Lucas, that means that every stupid thing they do is just forgiven because it's Disney and not him. I'm saying that it's not stupid. It is stupid. I'm saying that I liked it. It's not stupid. Okay, and the Star Wars universe where all this magical shit happens, it's not stupid. Lightsabers, people flying through space is not stupid. Okay, well, I like frisky, furry Fox boys too, but you know, I can at least admit that's stupid. So what if in the episode nine, everyone can just jump around in space and just walk around in space even? And lightsabers, you just throw it through the planet. I don't understand how you can claim to be fans of this and you see a character that you love do something amazing and you just go, it's stupid. It's stupid. Is that an I hit everything argument where we're supposed to find the good in it sort of thing? We're just supposed to accept that it's good. Don't remind me of that guy, please. Okay, this is move on. Yeah, so what's your limit then? Because clearly we have different standards. How far does the films have to go before you go? Okay, no, that's... It can go as far as they want. It's a fucking, it's a... Dude. All right, okay, all right. So film opens with Luke Skywalker. He takes all his clothes off. He's in a nappy. He jumps all the way up to the sun and then grabs it with his hand and throws it at the supremacy or whatever remains of the First Order Army, destroys them all. And then he marries Poe and Chewbacca becomes a Jedi because he wanted to. And Rey dies of old age that day. Because that's just what happens. Look, look, dude. Would you have a problem with any of that? Look, look. Oh boy. Okay, when Disney bought these fucking films and, okay, Harrison Ford won it out of these fucking movies. And Disney doesn't want to constantly have to adhere to a certain amount of their fan bases who really don't adhere to their billions of dollars that they gross from this movie constantly. They say, okay, they want Harrison Ford in the Force Awakens. Fine. We don't want to have to constantly reference back to Harrison Ford and have stories of Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford doesn't even want to do the fucking movies. Let's just kill him. Great. Dead, gone. Okay, now they want Luke because they have to have Luke from the last movies. We bought these fucking movies and now we have to adhere to all this fucking shit because they're going to whine about it. All right. So we got Luke there. He's dead. He had his moment. He did what he was supposed to do. He's gone. You want to work for Disney? No, I don't work for fucking Disney. Because that sounds like the kind of attitude that went into making these films. Like, fuck the originals. Why do we have to pay attention to these characters and this lore? Gosh. It's like, why do we buy this franchise without paying any respect to it? They're trying to do something new and different and constantly having to adhere to decade-old movies to the exact amount where you have to have a lore. Why do they have to have these characters in the films if they want to do something new? Because everyone was going to lose their fucking shit if they didn't. If they had the Force Awakens without one single character. Maybe it's films. Wolf, Wolf, would you have watched a theoretical Episode 7 if there was no Han, Luke and Leia? Yeah, I'd be fine with it. I mean, Rogue One didn't have any of those characters, aside from Leia showing up for like three seconds at the very end. The prequels didn't have him either. Aside from Obi-Wan, but that was, you know, bad. Yeah, well, like I said, Luke, Han and Leia. None of them. Oh, yeah. And besides, you've completely sidestepped my point. The whole Diatribe I just gave you about a ridiculous Episode 9. How far do you have to go before you say, okay, that's not very good? I guess until they just destroy the characters they created. I don't know. I mean, like how they did in this movie? No, I disagree with that. That's where we keep coming back to. You keep saying, oh, the characters are this or that. And I just agree. We make references to, you know, past films or scenes or dialogue while you're telling us, hey, it's Disney. They can do it if they want to. You see how your argument's not very strong? So my argument isn't strong. Yes. Because, okay. So I guess when I first started, I asked you guys if you could give this film, Leigh-Way, because it's a Disney Star Wars film, yada, yada, yada. And you're saying, no. And I asked you what that means. And you're saying, no, you will not. You will not give this film any kind of movie. No, I asked you what that means and you haven't told me yet. I told you about Leia flying through space. I told you I don't care about that. I told you that Disney Star Wars, that's possible and I don't care. So you're asking me why I do care then? Is that what Leigh-Way means? Okay, why can't you just pass that on as something that's amazing? Instead of picking at it. Why is it such a problem for you? Why isn't it a problem for you? Because it's amazing. That's not an answer. What about it is amazing. Because it expands on the force. It expands on the force, the magical thing. We'll just go from there. How does it expand on the force? It shows that you, first of all, I think she died in space, meaning she somehow came back to life. Okay, that's not proven, but okay. The force can resurrect people. I'm pretty sure that's not true, but go on. Well, I'm saying- Well, let him go down the rabbit hole. I'm saying that, okay, Jedi are monks. And monks can like fucking do weird shit where they can slow their heartbeat down and survive in certain conditions for long extended, extreme conditions for long extended periods of time by slowing their heartbeat down or doing all kinds of weird shit. Jedi are, I think they're comparable to monks or they're based off monks or something or they're based off samurai or something like that. And anyway, they fucking, it's not unbelievable to think that Leia in her old age has done some kind of meditation or trained with- No, that was confirmed by Ryan Johnson. She's not done any training. He actually counted that rumor. He said it was instinct. He said she did it on instinct instead of an actual skill. Sure, just want to clarify, she has no training with the force. She has no training with the force, meaning do you mean she has- Similarly to Rey, she just summons these abilities. She's never picked up a lightsaber and trained with- Because the force is, you can train in the force without picking up a lightsaber and going in- Well, yeah, we've seen Empire Strikes Back. We know how you train about learning about the force. You don't need a lightsaber, of course. So I'm saying in her lifetime, and not Carrie Fisher's in Leia's lifetime, she couldn't have done any kind of meditation, any kind of meditation like something to give her the ability because she is force sensitive. We know that from the other movie. Okay, maybe let me try and give you a scenario to see if you react similarly. So like Chewie's being hunted down by Vader. Let's just say it's a fan fiction film. And Darth Vader goes to slice at Chewie, but then Chewie pulls out his lightsaber and blocks and then kills Vader. And we find out in the next scene, Chewie's actually been training this whole time to be a Jedi. Now, the reason that's not satisfying is because we have no idea. There's no buildup to this. They just plonk it on us and we're like, oh. So when you baited this person's death, you were just doing it to bait the person's death. You wouldn't actually have any kind of way to write yourself out that was pre-established. It was just, no, this is this now. And that's down to a lot of the elements of this film. They just say, this is this now, this is this now. Like when they all arrive on crate, they just go, this is this now. So are you saying you wanted, you're saying the film, it would have added to the film to have a scene of Leia training with Luke? You don't even need to have her training on screen. If you just explained that she was trained at all, even offscreen, even if it was between episode six and seven, that would be enough. So an offhand saying, I trained, so Leia just like, I don't know, one frame say, I trained in the forest. That would have been good enough for you. Yes. Yeah. Like if Rey or Poe, whoever. Why even have it in the first place? If it's so, if that's enough to say, okay, I trained in the forest. Goodbye. If that's enough for you to say, oh, okay. So I believe you can fly through space now. If you say, that's not what Wolf argued. He's not going to have one sentence. We'll have maybe a meaningful conversation between two characters, one being Leia. Well, I asked you, I asked you if you say, I asked you if you, if she just, if someone just says, if she just says, I trained in the forest. Goodbye. That would be enough. Okay. That would be an improvement. It would be something that would be, well, I'm asking you that would be enough for you to believe that she could fly through space. Okay. Here's what I'm saying, since apparently you're just not understanding it. There has been no established training at all from episode, from any of the original movies to now. So at this point, especially given that she didn't do anything in episode seven, we are led to believe that she does not have anything more than just the ability to sense other people like she did with Luke and Empire. However, I don't have a problem with her using the force, but she needs to have at least some implied training. There was no implied training at all in the past couple of movies. That's the problem I have with it. It's not that she can use the force, it's the fact that she has had no training at all. So it doesn't make sense. And I guess what I'm saying is I disagree. It makes sense in this, in this universe. How does it make sense? How does it make sense? I'm saying that it makes sense in this universe. How does it make sense in this universe? That this old woman, we, okay, this, it makes sense that this old woman who is force sensitive, that in her last dying breath can use the force in a way that we haven't seen before. I think that that makes sense. I think that she's that connected with the force. She's that much of a Skywalker that she can fucking do it. So why was it never brought up again? I don't know exactly what it is that you want. I'm saying, do you want a scene? Even if she had, let's just entertain the idea that it was just instinct and it was just the force acting out with her. Well, I'll accept that. They need to, the very least, address it. They don't throughout the whole movie. No one even mentions that scene ever again. They just accept it like it's a normal thing. Address it in what way? I don't know. Maybe say, what the fuck did you do in space like 10 minutes ago? Oh yeah, are we debating this? It is bizarre that nobody asked here what the hell she just did, especially in a world where the force is a myth, which was established once again by the Force Awakens. She was in a coma, right? They could have asked her afterward. She flew in from space. How was that relevant? Okay, she got out of the coma and they were literally in peril. In what time would she have to say, oh, you want to know about that thing that I did in space? Let me just tell you really quick about that thing I did in space or we're being shot at by this by the fucking ship over there. Let me tell you about that. You're arguing with no time to ask it. Arguing it would have been, it wasn't important at the moment. It wasn't important at any time after she got out of a coma. It's kind of an important thing to understand why this character who was never using the Force before. The only person that could get anything from that is Rey. Okay, well she wasn't there. Okay, then what? What do you mean then what? Rey wasn't there. She can only say, hey, Rey, you want to know how I did this crazy shit because you can use the Force II. That's the only point in the film where it would have been relevant. Oh my God. Mauler, can you take it from here? I think I'm going to blow my brains out. So I don't want to just wait, wait, wait, wait. So why are these not valid points? I don't understand. Let's try and find something a little bit more agree. I want to find out if you can agree with the flaws basically, right? So we'll get to the most objective ones. Phasma disappears when she's going to execute Rose and Finn, as well as her whole army to appear later, much more reduced behind a smoke wall. Do you remember that? That's an editing error. Wait, which scene are you talking about? It's about 10 minutes before they go to Crate. It's on the Superstar Destroyer or whatever it's called. Okay, explain the scene to me again. So we have Rose and Finn. They're about to be executed by laser axe things. And then we have the hyperdrive scene. And it rips obviously the ship in half. And then we cut back to Finn and Rose. And the entire hangar was filled with an army of stormtroopers. They're all gone. Phasma's gone. And then they run forward about a couple of meters. And then Phasma starts walking towards them with an army of troopers behind a smoke wall. It's in the trailer. I'm having a bit of trouble picturing in my head. But how does that... You're saying an editing mistake detracts from... No, I'm sorry. I agree. Okay, fine. It's an editing mistake. I'm not going to skip through the film to go find it, but fine. It's an editing mistake. What? See, because that's good. That means that you do actually accept that there are errors. Because if you stone mold us on that, then it would just be a pointless conversation. So at least we've got that. So more agreement. Okay, hang on, hang on. I am capable of pointing out bad writing or noticing bad character work in a film. I'm capable of that. I'm saying that I disagree. And that doesn't make me invalid. Just because you think it's so that way, that it's that way. And everyone on the internet says it's that way. And this is my point. It's this way. It's this way. It is bad writing. It is, it is, it is. I'm saying that I disagree at the end of the day. So that's the point that we need to agree on right now. I disagree. Okay, well, why do you disagree? You have to have points to back this up. You can't just say I disagree and leave it at that. Points against all the characters. Name a character that you think is... Name a character that I've talked about Kylo Ren. We talked about race. About what's her face as sister. Why she gave a good before. Okay, let's talk about the most important one then. Luke. Okay. Because I'd love to see your mental gymnastics on this one. What's your problem with Luke? Everything. Let's start from the beginning. I mean, I can't believe I have to explain this to you today when I did yesterday. But okay, the fact that he's a completely different character in this movie than he was in the entire original trilogy. He's a different, he's a, he's a different character. Yes. What I just said. Is he a different person or is he a different person or is he a different character? What the fuck? That's my argument. I'm saying he's a different person. Do you think it's good that they did that without any establishment or development or explanation of any kind? The explanation is, what explanation? He's an older person. He's been through shit. He's different. I... Okay. So the character is established. Complete synarch, let's say. And then we skip time and then they're completely different. Do you not see the problem for people? Okay, that's the thing. Time. You said we skip time. Yes. Time. Things happen. Things happen. Life happens. Yeah, you're absolutely right. We don't get to see it. So we have no idea why our beloved character is behaving this way. So we can't get behind them. We saw him, we saw him kill... Not kill, I'm sorry. We saw Kylo Ren kill all the Jedi students. No, we didn't. We literally did not. See the Knights of Ren, whatever. We didn't see that. We literally didn't see that. We saw the dead children. We saw the aftermath of it. No, we didn't. I mean, we saw the burning building. We didn't see dead people. Wait, there were children on the ground lying dead in that scene. I don't... Mauler, do you remember that? I swear to God, there were dead bodies on the ground. I don't know where you're getting that from. We see rumble. We see rumble in the space out of it. There were bodies. I swear to God, there were bodies. Okay, if you can provide evidence of this and get me a screenshot, I will readily admit that I'm wrong. However, I do not remember that at all. Disney, George Lucas, they're never going to show children being close or dying. It's not going to happen. But even then, we're not talking about what happened after. We're talking about why he even did what he... Well, what's about to do what he was going to do to Kylo Ren and kill him. He didn't change just because Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren betrayed him. We're talking about how he betrayed his character and decided he was going to kill Kylo Ren for at least an instant, which is why Kylo Ren is evil now in the first place. Can you explain to me why he would do that after everything that's been established in the original movies? It's Disney Star Wars, there you go. No, that's not... Okay, dude, don't... Now you're fucking strong on me because you're fucking... That's not my argument for the entire film. My comment was completely unrelated to you. I just said it randomly. Okay, but that's not my argument for the whole film. It's not... That was just for layers. Okay, that was a joke. Do you know how to funny? Bro, I'm just... I'm just fucking trying to keep this shit super chill from the beginning. But whatever. You're asking why Luke did that. And I think it's because, once again, time has passed and I just swear to God, he saw dead children. And he did see dead children because he had to find the body. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Go back, like I said before. Why was he about to kill Kylo Ren after everything we know about Luke from the original movies? We're not talking about what happened after. We're talking about what made all this happen in the first place. He fucking... He made a mistake. I mean, he's a human being. Oh yeah, so we go through Return of the Jedi where the entire movie he's trying to convince the second most evil person in the entire galaxy. Who destroyed all of the Jedi. Almost all of the Jedi. He tried to convince that guy to be good for an entire movie. But as soon as he senses any level of darkness in Kylo Ren, he decides that killing him would be a better answer. Wait, I thought he said he was too far gone. So was Darth Vader. But that didn't stop him from trying. Did he say he sent some good in him or an inch of good or something like that? Hang on, if that were true, what is your argument here? I'm saying that he made a mistake, that it was a mistake that he did it. But he's a flawed... I don't see why Luke Skywalker can't be a flawed character. He already is a flawed character. You don't need to make him have the same flaws that he already fixed in the original movies. Because that's just retreading the same ground. We don't need to do that again. I don't understand how it's retreading. He's an older person after he's been through drama. Okay, if he has already learned a lesson one time, why does he have to learn it again? Okay, so I keep going ahead. We're going back to why he tried to kill Kylo Ren. Let me put this into perspective for you. Would you agree that Darth Vader was, at the time of the original trilogy, arguably the second most evil person aside from the Emperor? Would you agree with that? Yes. Okay. So if Luke spends that whole entire movie trying to convince that guy to be good again, why would he not try to do the same with his nephew? Look, I don't know much about being fucking old, but I think that it comes with fucking perspective and shit. Are you really trying to say that because he's old? He had so much to lose. He had so much to lose. He said that he was going to kill everything. He was going to destroy everything. No, he literally did not say that. I remember enough of the movie to know that all Luke said was that he said that he was too far gone and that Snoke had already gotten to him. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, about how he thought, how he saw a vision of Kylo Ren killing everybody. No, not a vision. He said that he had a feeling that he was going to- Oh, he had a feeling. No, he said that he fucking said he's going to kill or he's going to destroy something and I have to- No, he didn't. He did. I, he did. Quote it. Was it whether or not Luke said that he had a premonition or he had a feeling or something that Kylo Ren was going to fuck shit up? Yeah, so his premonition was that he was going to hurt people Luke loved. That was what he assessed. That might be it. Yeah, but that's not good enough because Vader was going to do far worse and Luke still believed in him. Vader committed a genocide, a literal- Yeah, this is really something you can argue. Vader is worse than Kylo definitively. Okay, sure. But what about Luke having so much more to lose now? What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about why he eventually came to the decision that he needed to kill Kylo Ren. I'm saying that he had so much more to lose. What did he have to lose? Tell me that. His padawans, his padawans, his temple, his the new Jedi Order, everything. So your best course of action is because I'm old, I'm going to murder my sister's child because I think he might do something bad. That's the solution? Man, I can't wait until I'm old then I can get you to do the same exact thing. I don't know. I can't give you perspective on what you would think when you have so many things to cherish. That's not an argument, but look, my point is- None of this has been an argument. Okay. No, look, my point is that he had more to lose. He was old. He fucking- He needs to stop with the old thing. That is so irrelevant. That is so irrelevant. I don't, okay. I'm saying that being older comes with perspective and it comes with just being- Yeah, have you ever heard the term age with wisdom? Fuck, I can't even think. With age and wisdom. Yeah, I've become retarded after this dream. Okay, that's not even fucking fair. Like- Yes, it is. No, it's fucking not because I am giving- I'm giving my fucking opinion and you're only turning it down because you're so fucking got your feet in your own shit. I mean, you have really bad argumentation and it's frustrating to listen to. It's like my brain cells are just jumping off a cliff. You asked me why I think it- Fuck, I'm saying that it was a moment of fucking weakness when he tried to kill Kylo Ren. That's what I'm saying. Right, and it was against his character, which is the problem. I'm saying it's not against his character. Okay, well, explain how- I haven't progressed. Explain how it's not against his character other than saying he's old. I'm saying it's not against his character because he's old. He's a human being. I literally just said not to say because he's old and then you immediately said because he's old. Because being old is an argument and character being older and having age is not an argument. No, being old is not an argument. What do you not understand about that? Understand how a character doesn't change with age. That's what I'm not understanding. Oh, yeah. I'm just going to turn into a psychopathic murderer when I'm 60 years old. Wait a second. I'm- Wait, wait, wait. He didn't even do it. Wait a second. He didn't even fucking do it. He was just about- He was about to do it. The fact that he even had the thought. The fact that he- He retracted- He retracted the lightsaber. I forgot about that shit. He retracted it. What, you thought that he did kill Kylo? He retracted the fucking lightsaber. Well, duh, he didn't kill Kylo. I don't understand- I'm saying he didn't- I'm saying he didn't swing at it. He only swung at him defensively. When he was about to kill him. In his sleep. That's not even what we're arguing. We're talking about the fact that he would consider that an option. He would consider it an option because he has so much to fucking lose. Oh my god. And he didn't in the originals? The whole galaxy was at stake in the originals. I was gonna say, he had more to lose in the originals because he was the only hope of taking down the Empire. He was the only living Jedi. Is Luke Skywalker impenetrable to fear? Is he not a human fucking character? I don't see why he can't be valuable enough to just have a moment of weakness where he's thinking of losing everything that he's built up for years. This temple and the padawan having a single moment of weakness and thinking that he could save it all prevent any of the shit that might come from this. You've made this argument like four times now. I keep coming back to it because you guys- We're going in a fucking circle because I disagree with you. I disagree and I think that it's with his character that he did this. It's part of his character. He fucking grows up. I got a question for you. Is 2 plus 2, does that equal 4? Dude, come on. No, just answer the question. Does 2 plus 2 equals 4? Yes or no? Yes. I disagree. Why? And there we are. That is not fucking fair. Yes, it is. It's the exact argument you've been using this whole time. You have to support a disagreement for it to be valid. Just saying I disagree that the sun is yellow. I didn't say that I disagree. I said that it's part of his character. Okay, I want to tell you a story. So in World War II, when the Americans were coming to Japan, there are instances where the Japanese people would throw themselves off of cliffs because they didn't want to risk dying at the hands of the Americans. For the past one hour, 10 minutes, and 11 seconds, that's what my brain cells have been doing because this is the most circular argument. I think I have ever- I've seen Christians and Muslims that are more reasonable than this. In the fucking circle. In the circle. In the fucking circle. I said Luke Skywalker- I said it's part of his character. The decision is part of his fucking character because he's a real human being. He progresses and he has shit to lose. Okay, so what character does that not apply to? What do you mean? Your defense. It's like if I said, I don't know, Indiana Jones cried at the thought of fighting somebody and then killed himself. I go, well, that was a moment of weakness, you see. Vader was scared of a little girl who threw rocks at him. Well, he had a moment of weakness, you see. It's not a good argument, I'm sorry. All around me are familiar faces. I just don't understand where to fucking go for a minute. If you're just going to keep saying my arguments- I'm stumbling you. I'm saying your arguments are so bad that we have to stop because we can't get circles. Fine, just move on from fucking Luke Skywalker. This isn't even- This isn't fucking fair. We can move from fucking- Well, I mean, it's getting a little bit pointless because this is what the fifth major argument we've done. We just have to sort of ignore each other and just move on because there's nothing to do. So I don't feel like much progress is being made. Fine. Think what the fuck you want, dude. Okay. All right. So what's next on the list? What's wrong with the scene where Finn and Rose meet? Or Finn is trying to escape to find Rey? I don't- Can you give us like a quote from one of us that maybe we could work with? Or maybe someone we said, even paraphrase? I don't even really remember having too much to say about that part. Aside from just saying that that's when Rose was introduced. I was going through the scenes of the film and I was trying to- That's one of the scenes that I thought was good and I thought you guys could just fucking tell me why it's not. I mean I wouldn't say it's good but I don't really have any problem with it off the top of my head. I'm saying that it fucking establishes Rose as someone who loves her sister very much because we needed that for one. No way. She loves her family member? Man. I'm saying before that we didn't know what her connection was to the girl that died in the resistance. Okay. That's because she wasn't in the movie until that point. Okay and this goes back to my thing again about her giving a good performance. This is part of her good performance. She cried? She cried and then she cried and conveyed to- What's her name? Finn cried and conveyed to Finn about how much she- Hold on. She didn't convey anything to Finn. He didn't even really talk to her until she noticed him and by the time she started talking to him she had a big smile on her face. Yeah. She acknowledges him as the hero of the resistance which further shows how much- how her dedication to the resistance is she fucking- What- I forget what she exactly said but she talks about her sister, what happened to her, how she feels about it, what she feels about the resistance and what they're doing and how much she hates people who try to defect or she tases them when they try to defect or whatever. Which- which is what I'm saying is part of her good performance. That's a part of her character, not her performance. Her conveying that is part of her good performance. You remember that part earlier when I said I don't really care about the performance thing? Let's actually talk about objective things. Did you forget that? Because I don't really care about the performance. Okay, fine. I guess we can talk about the fucking plan that you had such a big problem with that you felt was so convoluted, you and the other guy in that video. Now the cannibide plan and what they had to do to get there, that all around that is just another shitstorm that I- Oh, you mean the whole fuel thing? No, like the entire cannibide plotline. The whole plan, the whole plan with Moz and planning to get the tracker and all of that shit. Wait, I got an objective one. You can't get around this one. Why didn't they send a star destroyer into hyperspace to catch up with the Radis instead of just chasing them slowly with their army of star destroyers? Yeah, I mean, if we weaponized the lightspeeds in front of them. Yeah, why didn't they just send one star destroyer ahead? You don't even need to lightspeed in front of them because we already established you can just use lightspeed to cut through ships. So why didn't they just- They have a tie fighter if I can do it. Why didn't they just have the star destroyer crash into them? That would only leave like, well, a dent, and even then, it cares. I don't know how the science- I don't know how the science of that would work, but I figured that they would both be destroyed. Okay, and that would only help them. I mean, that one's- We can discuss that one, but the one you literally can't is, why didn't they just send a star destroyer ahead of space in a line to wait for them to reach them? Even just slightly ahead. Who was in charge of that? Who was followed? Was that still Hux and Charge? Yep, that was still Hux. There was only one other person in charge in both of these movies. Let me remind you as well before you answer that you've already said the reason why he got frustrated about chasing them was after Snoke had given him a bolligan. So he wants to kill them more than anything now because he's afraid of Snoke, right? That was your argument. So you cannot reconcile that with not sending a star destroyer ahead to get them. Ahead to where? Just in front of them? Yep, just send them a mile forward. To intercept them to wherever they're going. Well, they're heading in a straight line, so it's safe to assume you just send a star destroyer a mile in space forward, even less than that, whatever. And then you can just knock the shit out of the radis. Wouldn't they be able to detect the star destroyer like before? Yeah, you're absolutely right. Well, why does that matter? Well, yeah, I guess- Don't they have guns on that ship? The radis? Did you see them using it throughout the rest of the movie? Because they didn't- It doesn't matter, it's irrelevant. It is irrelevant because the- Why would the First Order want to catch up to them with their own ships but not a star destroyer? I figured that's because- It's a mistake. I don't want to fucking use arrogance. But it doesn't make sense. You've already argued that he wasn't arrogant as of the conversation with Snoke, so- Yeah, he just wants to kill him right off the back after being bitch slept, but- He fucking- Don't- Because you're looking for a way to reconcile it. You can just admit it's just badly put together. They've forgotten the fact that star destroyers can individually hyperspace. It's an error. I would honestly- Really, I mean, I would just respect you so much more, so much more if you could just for once admit that this is actually a problem. I mean, it's not even that major of a problem in this particular scene. I mean, it's still a problem, but- Okay, he should have sent a star destroyer and it doesn't make sense. Okay, good. Now, the problem with that is that that's the foundation of the film. That is a foundational point. No one's gonna give us- String of conveniences, whatever, whatever. Well, that's just one. We're not even talking about other ones. The film is based on an error in the plot. That's bad. Very bad. I'm gonna go back to using fanatical universe again. Oh my god. There's no point. No, no, no. Like I said, I agree- Fine, I agree with you that you should have- He could have done that. But- Hello, darkness, my old friend. I mean, do leaders not make mistakes? I- Oh my god. Oh, dear. You can't just keep saying- Fine, you can't just move on. You can't just keep saying that if they made a mistake. You can't use that as every single argument. Well, I mean, it makes it so the film isn't bad if you do that. So it's not a terrible strategy, I suppose. I just don't- I don't see if you're the enemy of someone and you already know you have them in your grasp. It's- even at a certain point, even if you are trying to immediately destroy them, you're talking about characters being inconsistent. And see, this is where I reference Stockholm Syndrome for the equivalent in media. Like you're doing everything you can to make it make sense instead of just the simplest answer is the obvious one. It's just a mistake in the script, it's fine. It happens. Loads of films happen. You don't have to like worship these films. You're treating them as your- This is like your life source, as though your livelihood depends on this film being good. Now look- Oh, I know how the fucking film made me feel when I saw it in theaters. That's irrelevant. We're not talking about feelings. We're talking about the actual mechanics. I mean, look- You can feel however you want. We felt however we wanted about it. We're separating these things. Now, I'll give you some leeway here because I am a really big Halo fan, or rather was a really big Halo fan. When 343 took over, I tried to reconcile a lot of things that they did wrong with Halo 4, Halo 5, Halo MCC, so on. It wasn't until I was just repeatedly finding more and more mistakes over and over and over again. And then Halo 5 comes out and they completely destroy the story that I was like, okay, maybe I should stop defending these things and actually take an objective look at it because as much as I love the original Halo games, I'm not going to defend every single Halo game just because it's Halo. Just like I'm not going to defend every single Star Wars game, or Star Wars movie, sorry, just because it's Star Wars. I can love something and still criticize it. Does that make any sense? Yeah, I get it. What I guess one of my main things is I'm trying to say is that I liked more things that I hated in this film. I liked the expansion on the Force. I liked the fucking- It's just the small thing that you're talking about. The things that you're talking about, the things about the Rebels having different shifts, things about why aren't there shields up in this and that. I feel like it's so small and nitpicky for this brand universe. That's why I said earlier about the issue with the hyperspace moving forward. The plot depends on that. It's an error. That's an important error. That's not a nitpick. If he sent the Star Destroyer ahead, he could have just destroyed them and that would have been the end of the film. Yes. That is a rather large problem because when we talk about immersion, right, everyone's different, of course. Okay, are you saying that that for sure, that that plan, that if they did that exactly, that that plan would have gone exactly the way that they planned? I'm sorry? That if they did send that Star Destroyer ahead and they for sure everything went the way that Hux was planning, whatever plan he had, when he sends that Star Destroyer ahead at light speed to intercept the resistance, would have gone exactly his way. That the writers- We're not saying it would have gone- Send the ship forward. It assaults the Radis. Maybe it even loses it. Maybe it gets destroyed in the process. Who knows? But either way, the resistance is destroyed on that very moment. Sure. There's no- Couldn't they just wrote in another way for them to escape it? I mean, they would have just come up with something else, right? Well, that would also- Depending on what they do, that would also be bad or good writing. That's all we really argue with. If they did something- We know the resistance is resourceful. We know they're resourceful. So I think- So resourceful now. For a theoretical version of the film where they argue correctly how the resistance get out of it. I'm okay with that. We could enjoy that film, but we're not talking about that film. We're talking about the one we have and the bad writing choice to ignore resources in order to have our slow space chase. Yeah, that makes- And it's not a nitpick, is what I would like you to sort of agree with. And my only- The only thing that I really have to say against that is that, like I said, I don't care in this, again, fanatical Star Wars universe about that. It's so insignificant. It's so insignificant to what the film is trying to say. And that it eventually- Right. What it eventually gets- We're not talking about the message of the film though. We're talking about the mechanics in the script. Because the message in the room could have been about relationships or how you move forward in life without trying to damage relationships around you in pursuit of another one. There's a lot you can draw from the room, but it is still an objectively horrifyingly bad film. So can I say that that is a technical problem with the film, but that does not invalidate me saying that overall, even with that technical problem, even with all the technical problems that you may point out and will point out in however long this conversation is going to be, that me saying that without all that, that the points that I'm going to make about how this film gets across its message in a way that I feel is near- is beautiful. Okay, okay. Hold on, because we don't care about how you feel about the message. We don't care about the message. Hold on, hold on. We don't care about the message either. Now, you can feel whatever you want about the message, and we can't take anything away from that, because that is a totally subjective opinion. We can't say anything about that objectively. The message is whatever you take away from it. Sure, go ahead. You can think whatever you want. We aren't talking about the message. We're talking about the plot. Yeah, do you have any films you think are bad? Just, just, I'm not saying you don't. I'm asking, what films do you think are bad? Like, badly made? I don't know. We were talking about Suicide Squad. I didn't like that. Sure. Well, Suicide Squad is an important message about coming together as a team, working hard and defeating an evil that is far greater than maybe your own evils within you. That is a beautiful message, and I think it transcends any plot problems with the film. That's what you're doing to us right now. Okay, I guess I can kind of see that a little bit. Okay, at least we got that across. I'm just, I'm trying to understand, okay, we fucking, you have a problem with these characters. Okay, let me just go to one character specifically. Let me go to Finn. Finn arrives on, what's the name of the casino planet? Cannabite. He arrives on Cannabite. And in my fucking fast-paced research, fucking six hour for this shit, I read some articles saying that, oh, Finn is an inconsistent character because in The Force Awakens, he shows that he's a hero, he shows bravado, and now that he's on this casino planet, he fucking, he is like star-struck and shit, and he's acting like a bumbling idiot or whatever. Is that something that you would agree with? I wouldn't say he's a bumbling idiot. Well, that was something in an article, but would you say that it's inconsistent for his character at Cannabite to do that? Why is this a topic? It's not really that important, even if it's true or not. Because it goes to my point of why Finn is a consistent character, and it's gonna fucking come together. Whether or not we prove that, I feel like it's just not gonna add to much. Is it bigger things sort of talk about? Because I don't have, you know. I mean, you're talking about an article that neither of us have read, so. No, I was asking if you had an opinion on Finn's character and if he was inconsistent in the film. He was boring. He was basically pointless to be in the film, so I don't really care. He was, wait, he was pointless? Yes. The entire visit to, from the Rattus- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Finn, the character in the entire movie is pointless. Yes, sure. He is invalidated multiple times. Did he not kill Captain Phasma? Oh, God, are we going there? Do we want to go there? You said he's unimportant. He killed one of the main villains. Oh, yeah. Just like he did in The Force Awakens 2. The main villain, one of the main villains. She was in the movie for three minutes, and you're really trying to tell us. I mean, he killed her in the last movie too, but she still came back. God, she's just like Vader, you know. This is important. I'm sorry. You just completely disagree with me. I didn't realize people actually defended that. I thought that Phasma was just a universe. No, I'm defending the fact that he has a point to the plot of the film. He's pivotal to it. Okay, so him killing Phasma means that she couldn't not be a team. That's one thing, but he was part of the mission on Canto White. He was part of the mission. Which did what? What was important that we learned from Cannabite, aside from the kids thing? We found the code breaker. We found the code breaker. Who did nothing? You're right. Yeah, what came of getting to the code breaker? What came from that? He, didn't he fucking unlock the door to the tracker or whatever? Absolutely right. So, what? What? Thumb down. So, what came from him getting into the tracker room? Well, they got fucking caught, but they weren't supposed to do that plan in the beginning. That plan wasn't supposed to be executed. Okay, so it led to them getting caught, which led to what? Fucking, he betrayed them for money and shit. Yep, yep. And then they go to Crate, and they're back with the team that they were in the beginning with nothing developed in terms of the plot. They may as well have just been put in a fridge on the ratus and then open back up on Crate. Okay, that is completely unfair. They go to Cannabite. It expands on Rose's character, showing where she's from and the shit that she's been through, even reinforcing the shit that she stands for. So, that's important for one. They fucking go there to get the code breaker. And for one thing, Maz said to find the master code breaker. That's the one that they were supposed to find. Instead, they go to this sketchy ass motherfucker who, come on, he was going to betray them. So, your first point was about development of character. We're talking about plot. Your second one was telling us that Maz told them to go for someone else and they went for a different guy. I don't see how this has any relevance at all. They try and stick to the plot. How did it further the plot by them going there? Okay, it establishes more of Rose's character. They find the code breaker. That's character. Yeah, it's character. We're talking about the plot. We're arguing for plot. We can talk about character. We're arguing for plot first. You're saying why was it pivotal for the plot for them to go there? Yes. No, I'm asking what relevance at all did it have? The plot, the plan, the plan to find the master code breaker. Which was pointless. It was completely invalidated by itself by the end. I thought that was the fucking point. I thought they were supposed to find the code breaker. Okay, the point of going to Canobite was to find the master code breaker so they could get away. However, that was invalidated because they didn't get away. Because they didn't even disable the tracker. It was a trap. And then you sold them out. Okay. So there was no reason for it. The thing is, they did all that shit at the end of the day. They just got betrayed and it was all for nothing. Yes. That's what I'm saying. It's all for nothing. It's bullshit because it was all for nothing. It didn't lead to anything. Because if you took that out of the movie entirely, nothing would have changed. Okay, the movie is fucking about... Okay, I'm not going to say what it's all about. But somewhere in the movie, I remember Rose said something about destroying what you love. Not destroying what you love. Saving what you love and not destroying what you hate. Finn, not Finn. Poe Dameron. Poe De- A fucking Poe Dameron. Towards the beginning of the movie. Leia loses her command and the purple-haired feminist you hate so much comes in. And tells him to just fucking stay in his place, whatever. I'm in charge, right? And then he comes up with this fucking plan that really sounds ridiculous. And I believe you said something about it being ridiculous in your video. Yes. Super, this convoluted plan to get to Canto Byte and find the code breaker and do all this shit. When it was unnecessary. It was unnecessary because if he just listened to what the fucking general said, if he would focus on saving what he loves instead of destroying what he hates, none of that would have happened. That was the most meandering thing I think I've ever heard in my entire life. Yeah, can I ask, can I ask that you repeat yourself but be a little more concise because I'm so lost? Going to fucking Canto Byte wasn't pointless just because at the end of the day, they didn't get, they didn't disable the tracker. I'm saying the fucking film made a point about saving what you love and not destroying what you hate. The whole plan of going to Canto Byte and getting the master code breaker to disable the tracker was unnecessary to begin with if they just focused on saving what they love instead of destroying what they hate. Wrong. It was one of their only chances of escaping at that point. Wait, the woman had a plan. Yeah, well, no other characters knew that, so that's just irrelevant. No other characters knew that. The fucking guy, the shifty code breaker betrayed them, gave them the information and said, hey, they're deploying these ships into this planet. And he wouldn't have betrayed them if they weren't caught. He would not have betrayed them had they not been caught. They were caught because the BB-8 evil droid caught them while they were walking. That's a very bad writing choice, by the way, because we've had people break into stars different areas all the time and a random droid catches them. That's why they're caught. That's pathetic at best. But that's why he betrays them. He wouldn't have betrayed them if they hadn't been caught, and thus they would have been able to escape. So it was a good plan. Okay, how can you actually be for sure that? Because he was shifty on shit from the beginning. He said something about, oh, we're all the same. Because he helped them break in, and it was only once he was caught that he betrayed them. These are events that took place. I'm asking you that that character wouldn't have betrayed them anyways. Is that not a possibility? Well, I already have a problem with him anyway, because he didn't require money from them at all. He didn't require anything, and he was still willing to put himself at massive risk. There's problems all over this, by the way. The other thing is, why didn't the empire choose to kill him or torture him for the information instead of making a deal with him? There's so many things to go over here that don't make any sense that I can barely take this seriously. You have to stop going over these theoretical plot points that didn't happen, but you think could have happened. We're talking about the movie that we got, not the movie that we think we could have gotten. And the fundamental right now is whether or not their plan would have been fruitful, which it would have been. Everything was working out. They got caught by the BB-8 droid. The writers decided, no, we're going to get them caught. Okay, that sort of thing. Okay, look, I'm just... Don't call me fucking stupid. I don't understand why that's the problem. I have never called you stupid. I don't understand why it's a problem for the BB-8 droid to... The plans fail. Plans fucking... Why is that a problem for the BB-8 droid to find them? Why? Oh, right. Well, because it's sloppy. Yeah, there you go. Like you said, nothing to do with the character. Wait, I don't understand. I don't understand the character at all. It's just... Oh, they were caught. Oh, okay. Okay, I'm not a fucking writer. It's bad writing. I wouldn't call that bad writing. That's not bad. That's possible. It's absolutely possible. It's just really weak. We expect more from a story like this. It's like, funnily enough, a comparison is that quote. Do you remember? Do you guys remember from the third prequel film they got caught in Ray Shields? And then he's like, how did this happen? We're smarter than this. And it's like, yeah, how did that happen? How did our Jedi's just get caught by a random automatic security? It's like, it's pretty lame. And it's just like, yes, because the writers were like, fuck it, we need to get them caught by Grievous now. It's the same deal. I mean, I just... I don't know how I can argue that. If I... Well, maybe you shouldn't be. Maybe you should be like, okay, yeah, that doesn't make sense. You don't... Just because it's Star Wars doesn't mean you have to argue for it. Yeah, like, this isn't necessarily a fight right now. This is a... Let's come to some form of an agreement here with the information we have. I mean, look, we're doing this right now because we think we can, or at least we thought we could, sway your opinion. But I'm not trying to be a fucking hardcore fanboy. I... You're not trying, but you're doing it pretty naturally. Look, you came to me pretty aggressively, I think it was two days ago, about the Black Panther and the Last Jedi thing. That was the only reason I even started talking to you. Yeah, because I was personally... I fucking... I look at your videos and I like them, but recently I was just personally offended by some of the ways you're fucking using race and shit in your videos. And I... Maybe I stepped ahead of my fucking little self to challenge you, but I do feel a certain way about these films. I like them. I was upset that I was fucking upset at some of the shit that he said about Black Panther and the shit he said about fucking the Last Jedi, calling the women Asian bitches. I had a fucking problem with it. I didn't mean to just fucking come here and just be like, oh, fuck you and shit. Okay, I was... That's how I fucking felt. Okay, look, when I went... This isn't new from Wolf, he's controversial. This has been like my shtick since I started on YouTube. And I only started watching him in the past month, so I know that. However, that's not the point. The point is, is that you came to me pretty aggressively the other day about these topics, which is why we had that conversation yesterday, because in this respect, I think you're making really dumb... Hold on, I think you're making really dumb arguments. However, I had that conversation yesterday and I'm having this conversation now, and I brought Moller in here too, because I thought that we could sway your opinion because I think you might be a reasonable person and you're just... Okay, okay, yes. The film has writing problems. The film has sci-fi, science fiction, believability problems, fine. So why do you keep denying all of the ones we bring up? I'm not trying to deny the things that you're bringing up. I'm trying to say that it doesn't deter from... That the plot of the movie is consistent enough, works enough. The plot works enough for the movie so that the movie... Look, here's my perspective on this, because you're the one that came to me very aggressively at first. The reason why I decided to even have this conversation is because if you're gonna come up to someone and start challenging their arguments, I kind of expect you to have arguments of your own, which you don't really have. Yeah, like I said, if I took a week to go through all of this shit, not just six hours, maybe I could do little bullet points and shit for this. But like I said, I was emotional at first. I was fucking emotional for some of the comments that I thought were racist, the comments that I thought were fucking too fucking far about the things you said about performers, about actors, and about culture that I didn't like. Fine, I'm sorry for fucking coming at you aggressively in that tone that would be fucking challenging you and shit. First off, we didn't even have to do this today. We never made a specific time to do this. I didn't even think you were gonna watch all of Mahler's videos last night. So I was actually kind of surprised when you came at me this morning. So we could have done this at any time on your terms. So don't pretend like I'm doing this specifically to get at you, because that's just not the case. Oh no, no, I was saying I was fucking emotional. If you're going to come at someone and try to debate all of my points, but then not have any points set up yourself, and then constantly defend the points that I am arguing against, without any actual defense beyond, oh, he's old, or oh, it's Disney. That's not good, arguments. But you see, it's not like I didn't come here unprepared at all. I have the points, but all the points that I say, you said that they're not arguing. Because we have rebuttals. But I felt that they were. I felt that they were. You can feel any way you want. That doesn't make it true. To clarify, for example, you gave us the argument about the message of the film, and I counted with the example of Suicide Squad. Do you see how that is not an argument? Do you agree with that? Or do you still feel that it was, and that we just sort of are on different lanes of existence? No, you're obviously fucking inform people. If you say that something in film is bad writing, I can probably take your word for it that it very well might be. Except in this case. I know, I agree with some of the shit that you're saying. It's just that. What did you agree with so far? I agree. Okay, I said that the fucking droid spotting them, maybe that's lazy or bad writing, whatever you said. But. I got a question for you because you said you had some issues with this movie. I'd like to know what your issues with this movie are. Because you never talked about that. You've been defending it, but you just said that you have issues with it. So I'd like to know what your issues are specifically. I love you have a new song every time. Yes, I've been fucking, I've just been, I've been sucking this film dick for the past seven hours. I'm trying to think. Yeah, you have been. That's funny because me and Wolf haven't watched it in ages. Oh, you guys didn't buy the blurry? Oh, why would I waste my money on it? Why would we do that? We hate the movie. Mahler made a five hour series about how much he hates the movie. I made like a 40 minute rant on how much I hate the movie. Why would we bother wasting our money on it? It's still a Star Wars film. I still want it for my collection. I can't use them. That informs this entire conversation, doesn't it? Yeah, I don't. I don't think we're ever going to get anywhere. If you're just going to say because it's Star Wars, we have to like it. No, I just, no, I was just saying I bought the film. It's not me arguing anything. I bought the film for me. That's what the fuck you said. You said, why didn't we buy it? We gave a reason. Then you said, but I didn't say why I said, I asked you if you did buy it. But yeah, we gave our reasons. And then you said, but it's Star Wars. Yeah, I said that was my reason for buying it. But it's Star Wars. It's for my collection. You have my condolences. So are you actually going to answer the question I posed to you about a minute and a half ago, or are we just going to pretend like it was never asked? No, I fucking. I mean, just name one problem you have with the movie. Eddie doesn't even have to be big. I mean, you said you had problems with it. I just want to know what they are. Look, I feel like if I fucking say, if I say I have a problem with all of the writing of all of the right of bad writing and all of the sci-fi inconsistencies of trilogy inconsistencies that you and the other guy had of this video, this is going to completely invalidate anything that I have to say. Because how can I fight? How can I fight for something if I just say, well, everything that you said about it is right? If I don't. Well, this will be the process of changing in mind, right? Look, if you if you're admitting that saying something is going to invalidate everything you said, then it means your arguments are not good and you need to rethink them. And reflect your position. You're you're saying it's very hard to defend this movie. Maybe the movie is hard to defend because it's not very well made. Look, I've been a Star Wars fan since I was like four. So I love this series. However, I can admit when a movie is bad, I'm not coming. I came at this from two perspectives as a Star Wars fan and as a movie fan. The movie fan always takes precedence over the Star Wars fan. I fucking think that's that's like a major that's a major impasse of where we are. I think that I am giving this film a certain amount, a certain amount more leeway than you're giving it. Like I said before, for being something new, for being. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good. Oh, exactly. Exactly. You're saying, OK. Also, wait, can I just clarify one thing? When Wolf says he's looking at as a film fan first, that's not to say that the perspective is is subjective. He's saying from position of like film theory, logic scripts, all that before looking at it as a Star Wars fan. Like a standard is what he's doing rather than coming from it as a Star Trek fan or a fan of sci-fi. Exactly. Because look, if I'm going to criticize a movie because of one thing, if another movie that I'm a fan of has that same problem, it would be intellectually dishonest of me to not criticize it for that same problem. So if I see bad writing in the room and I see bad writing in the last Jedi, but I don't say anything about the last Jedi, then that means I'm being a hypocrite. Because if I'm going to criticize one thing, I have to apply the same logic to another thing, even if I like it. Does that make any sense to you or? Yeah, I understand. Then that should clear this up, right? Sorry, I got to fill the open space. These are long, pregnant pauses. We could have our own debate in the middle of this one if you want. It's a little bit ragged around. Oh, man, we won't have the time because we do the podcast in like an hour and 20 minutes. Okay, can I ask you this? Is it possible that... Wait, just one thing. Before you finish, make sure you apply your own argument you're about to present to films like Suicide Squad and see if they apply to them, then you should know already it's not a strong argument. If you're going to criticize Suicide Squad for one thing and that same problem is present in this movie, then you're a hypocrite if you use that argument. This is what we're trying to get through to you. You don't have to like a movie just because it's part of a series you like. You can actually criticize things. And if you do like it, it's fine. You can just accept that it has flaws. I mean, look, lots in this case. I find the Hobbit movies entertaining on some level enough that I did buy those movies. I also don't think that... I really don't think those movies are good. There's a lot of problems with them. A ton. However, I do find it entertaining, but I do admit that they are issues. And this is coming from someone that's a huge Lord of the Rings fan. However... And see, I have no problem with him saying that despite hating the Hobbit films. Yeah, because I mean, me and Muller are probably going to agree on every single issue with the Hobbit. Probably, yeah, outside of like one or two. But yeah, it's because we use the same standard though. We've never met previously to a month ago. Like, and we use the same standard. I mean, look, the first time that I talked to him is because in one of his videos, he threw some shade at me. He shit on one of my videos, and that's how we started talking. Yeah, and we had a great conversation about Captain America. So, so... We've had many great conversations. This is one of them. Oh, yes, but it was on public. Those are for the private DMs. I feel like I feel like we've reached the conclusion. Yeah, like it is, you know... Yeah, fine. I can fucking accept all the technical flaws of this film. But like I said, when this was started, I watched this movie last night, and I came out of it with... Like you already said, fuck feelings and all that, but... Look, I'm not saying, neither of us are saying that you can't enjoy the movie. You can like the movie all you want. That's fine by me. I feel like we've gotten through because you're arguing against your own arguments without us now. Like, you're getting there. You're countering yourself. Like, we didn't even need to do it for you anymore. This was the point of this whole conversation is we knew... I feel like this has been good now because you're doing it for yourself. You don't need us anymore. Exactly. Look, we can't take away from you liking the movie, and I have never argued against someone liking something, even if it is bad, even if I don't like it. You can like it. I mean, Mahler likes Captain America's Civil War. I don't really like it. He likes Thor Ragnarok. I think that's one of the worst movies I've seen in a while. However, I'm not gonna shit on him because he likes the movie, because that's his opinion, and he can like the movie even if I don't... He loves Civil War. Let's correct the record. They're all civil. Yes, yes. We had a long conversation about that. But yeah, you see, we aren't arguing against you liking the film. You can like it all you want. That's fine. However, the reason why we even had this conversation to begin with is because you opened up your confrontation with me about how I was wrong about the movie and how you had better arguments. So this whole thing is based around us trying to convince you that we have our reasons for not liking this movie. There are actual reasons why we think this movie is bad. Like I said, I like the movie, but... That's fine. I'm also saying that not only did I like the movie, this movie inspired me enough to be ready for more of this universe. I want to see more of this universe. I disagree with you saying not to support the film. I like the things that they did with the expanding of the force and everything, and I'm ready for more. And that's one of the things that I think both of you are disagreeing with me, that this Star Wars should die. Well, we can't... Oh, I mean, that's a completely different discussion, I suppose. But we can't disagree with any of that. That's down to you, man. Like, you want more of it? That's great. I'm ready for episode nine. I'm expecting it to be horrible. But, you know, we'll see. I love the Star Wars universe. Despite what Red Letter Media say, there is infinite things you can do with it. You can go anywhere. It's unfortunate with what we're having. But, you know, anyone can feel about it anywhere they wish. You can go in and come out and say, you know what, that was something... That was special for me. And that's fantastic. But that's really not what we... You know, because we could just make the same argument in reverse and we'd still be right as well, because it's all subjective. Yeah, I mean, like I just said, you can like the movie all you want, and we can't take that away from you. Just like you can't take away from us that we really hate the movie. However, you started arguing about objective things. When you argue objective things, you need to have an objective reason behind them. Yeah, you fucking... Yeah, and you just fucking... You fucking deconstructed everything that I had. That's not me, like, getting angry and shit. I just fucking... I mean, it's what happened. I felt like I had valid shit to say about this film. You disagree. And I've just come to an agreement that, yeah, fine, the film has flaws. I like it. You're gonna be what you say. I'm ready for more films. I did feel like in my six hours of research, I had enough to try to at least deter some of the things you felt about this film. At least Luke Skywalker's character, but that just... It didn't happen. Okay, so do you understand why we had this conversation about these objective things and why we don't think you made any good arguments about these objective things because you were arguing from emotion? I feel like that may apply to some, if not most of the things I said, but I will stand by that. Some of the things that I did say about Luke Skywalker's character could be considered valid, but that it's not... It can't be argued. It's just nothing. Okay, so are we good? I think we got through to you at least a little bit, maybe, unless it's just you trying to get the conversation over with and you're just agreeing with us because of that, but... Oh, no, I do have to get ready for work soon, but... I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you did at least come to some mutual agreement with some of what we said. Before having a somewhat civil conversation with me. You're welcome. Absolutely. Mahler, I would shake your hand if I wasn't on the other side of the planet. It was good stuff. I guess that's the end. All right, I'm going to end this stream now.