 Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering the AWS Accenture Executive Summit. Brought to you by Accenture. Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of the AWS Executive Summit. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have two guests for this segment. We have Chad Duncan, Managing Director Financial Services Technology, Advisory Cloud Lead North America at Accenture. It's quite a long time. And Jim Goode, Senior Director Product and Portfolio Delivery at Capital One. Thank you both so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having us. So we're talking today about Capital One's migration to the cloud. But Jim, let's start out with Capital One the bank and why moving to the cloud was a business imperative for you? Essentially, as we look at Capital One, we have national reach. And we want, in credit cards, people are very familiar with that, but we also want a national reach in banking services too. And the approach we're using is not to go the old fashioned way, bricks and mortar, but it's to actually go more into the way people like to interact with their financial services partners and that's through mobile devices. And the only way to really get the kind of innovation you need and to get the features to customers that they want on a regular basis is to be a very nimble and use strategies like DevOps, et cetera. And the cloud really puts us in the position to do that. By the dynamic provisioning of infrastructure, all the different things that our agile practices can take advantage of so that we can regularly deliver new features to customers that they want. So agile delivery, you mentioned agile, what is it about Capital One's culture in terms of its approach to innovation that sort of enables that? Well, we've adopted agile a number of years ago and this is something where we like to really empower teams to work with the business to deliver these features on a recurring basis, regular releases. That's ingrained in our culture. I don't think we'd be able to actually do this cloud migration without that structure because the teams themselves are doing the work. The teams themselves now have control over the infrastructure. No more centralized group doing all the work for them. It's really distributed to the teams. And so that's really become what's expected of our teams that they can actually have deploy when they need to and actually build as needed. Again, without the cloud, without AWS services that we're using, we simply would not be able to realize that and the teams could not innovate the way that they are. Chad, in terms of, you've been working with Capital One for a few years now on this migration. What would you say about this company and about how its migration has gone? Their innovation strategy, right? They want to be innovative. You heard Jim talk a little bit about that just now and how they go to market for their customers, how they create new service offerings for their customers via their new cafes, right? They don't have typical branches. You walk into a cafe, you can get a cup of coffee. Yes, there's financial advisors in there, but that's not the main focus. It's not walking into a traditional branch bank. So taking that, if you think about that theme across all of their different product sets and being able to very quickly and iteratively roll out new products to the market in services that customers are desiring and really kind of being a disruptor in the industry, frankly, is I think the approach that they're taking. And as Accenture says, we're living in this age of epic disruption. Epic disruption. Exactly. So Jim, one of the challenges in migrating legacy platforms is this lack of metadata. Metadata, I'm sorry. Metadata. There's metadata. There's metadata. I think we need the AWO assistant to talk about that. But this lack of metadata, so how do you overcome that obstacle? Well, it hasn't been, it's one of the more challenging things that we've faced. We have a lot of legacy systems that we're kind of unwinding and migrating to the cloud. We're building new platforms for those, new services for those. And so there's been a lot of rolling up the sleeves work, just to understand what all this is, the old fashioned way. But what we're really able to do now, because as we move things to the cloud, as we move new applications to the cloud, we're able to use information that's now available to us that was not available to us before. VPC flow logs, for example, from Amazon have allowed us to know what are the connections between all these different services. And we've been able to use some of their tools and other tools that we've developed internally to start to visualize this in a much better way. Would not have been able to do that in our legacy setup. And so this is something that now we're actually using to aid the migrations, to understand how things connect in a much better way. And really, looking forward, we're in a much better place. And we don't, we now know what we have and we're able to track it very well. So Chad, Capital One is making it sound like it's pretty easy, but we know that moving to the cloud is actually really hard for so many financial institutions. Why has Capital One been able to succeed at a time when so many other banks are really struggling to do this? Yeah, I'll think about it in a couple of ways. I mean, they're not afraid to lead and innovate and fail fast, right? So you get out there, you start, you know, to talk about an MVP and how you would, you know, stand up a new surface offering or one of the applications in the cloud, right? Go ahead and do that, get some momentum, get people excited about, you know, the progress that's being made, that's one thing. And really understanding that security shouldn't be an issue, right? There's ways to secure your data in the cloud. You can run core banking in the cloud. Capital One's doing that, right? So there's things like that, that some other institutions, you know, sort of have analysis paralysis and they're like, well, I don't know if I can secure my data. I don't know if I can get the throughput that I need that the data latency, you know, may be an issue for banking. And really, you know, bring the right architects to the table and do that. Capital One did a great job from the beginning of getting their people trained and certified in the cloud technologies. A lot, mostly with AWS, right, frankly? And really making that a culture of their organization. They don't consider themselves a financial services institution, really. They consider themselves a technology company. And that's the culture. When you walk into a Capital One, you know, building, not a bank, but the center, yes, right. And headquarters building. You feel like you're walking through a technology company. You don't feel like you're in a bank. And setting that culture and that expectation with all of the Capital One associates, I think is a huge key to your success and how you guys were able to get everybody on board. You had your CEO, your CIO, all talking about we're moving to cloud. We're going to close our data centers. We're going to be all in public cloud. And that's the marching orders. And that's the drumbeat, right? And you kind of feel that when you're there. And also from our inception, we've been a test and learn company and culture. That is what we have built Capital One on is finding out what customers really want, responding to that and iterating and iterating and iterating on different offerings. And it's no different with how we've approached our migration to the cloud. We were going to set the minimum viable product as far as outcomes are concerned. We're going to test and learn, test and learn, test and learn. We learn from those, take some of those, it's a fail fast kind of mentality and we learn from some of those failures and adjust. And it's been, again, it really does fit our culture very well historically. And that's how, because there are so many trade-offs involved when you're thinking about these things. And is that how you sort of stick with the minimum viable product? This test and learn ethos? Well, the test and learning is a way to get there. The minimum viable product is like, this is our goal. Let's kind of be focused there so we can get to that. It takes some discipline to be able to say no. There's shiny objects over here and over here that if we go that way, it's going to take us a little bit off track. So we do a lot, we spend a lot of time discussing what is MVP for migration, for an application, whatever it might be and sticking to that and making sure we stay true to that. So we have regular reviews at a team level, at a program level, to make sure we're sticking to staying the course and driving toward that. And that's critical. So many of our customers think they have to have it all thought out, all planned out. The entire strategy, all of the different dependencies mapped out, how are we going to develop this in the cloud and they never get anywhere, because you can't absorb all of that at once. So you start small, you gain, you iterate and you go from there. When you're talking about getting inside the brains of customers and figuring out what they want and then delivering that. When you think about the bank of the future, Capital One has this digital first strategy and what do you envision for how people will interact with their financial services institution? Well I have four kids and they're all in their 20s and so I observe them a lot and I learn from them a lot and I can see what people want to do. They want to use their mobile devices. That's what they want to be able to do. They want to have access to their information at their fingertips when they want it. So the cafes Chad mentioned are kind of our big step toward, it's an educational offering more than anything else. Like here's how you can do that. Here's the things you can do with this. It's not a sales oriented thing, it's a educational oriented thing so people can understand what tools they have available, understand what products we have available to help them and then go about their lives the way they want. Great. What are some of the most exciting applications coming down the pipeline in terms of this new way of banking that Capital One is showing us? Do you want to take a look? I mean we've actually built our primary customer servicing application that our customers use every day, native in the cloud and we're contendering to iterate on that so I think you don't have to look much further than our mobile app to see what we're super excited about what we already offer to folks and again that's been enabled by our migration to the cloud. So it's going to continue to iterate, we continue to learn from our customers what they want, what new features they want, we continue to build those out. And even from a call center perspective you guys are using Amazon Connect, right? Yes we are. Today on your call centers and that has enabled a different way to interact with the customer. You have more data at your fingertips, you're learning some of the patterns from your customer calls in a way that you've not been able to do that in the past so enabling some of that data is also been effective in kind of servicing those accounts and having that very good interaction with your customer. Great, Chad, Jim, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you. It's really fun. Thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight, we will have more of theCUBE's live coverage of the AWS Executive Summit coming up in just a little bit.