 Thank you Mr. Dubey for joining us. Mr. Rajid Dubey is the head of media for Dabur. Exchange for media group in in association with Danik Bhaskar group is curating a series of webinars and the topic is non-meters leading the economic researchers where we focus on how the tier two and tier three cities media are likely to leave the recovery from the pandemic as they have already started doing. So in this context I have a few questions. My first question to you is tell me how have been the what have been the key learnings for Dabur if we look at the last six months. So you know so I'll start with the key learnings in the last six months you know so I think the biggest learning for us has been that you know that you know the kind of diverse portfolio Dabur has has been of great help in this time because you know this this kind of portfolio helps you I mean there's some categories which grow some categories which don't grow in this kind of a scenario. So that has been of great learning for us what has been also of great learning is that India is not one market no India is not one homogeneous market this there's a market which is a metro market there's a non-metro market there's a rural market and so you know so it's a mix of various markets is a mix of Dabur is a mix of various products so you know so this has been learning and you know so as we go into the conversation I'll tell you how it's been different for us and how it's been different for the industry as such because the lockdown has been very severe in the first quarter even the second quarter has been pretty bad. So being into a different mix of products has been of a difference to us you know so that's the biggest learning for us. So tell me also you know the way consumers have behaved in the and you know consumption trends we have seen are also very different so tell me about your observations you know how what kind of consumer behavior changes have taken place especially in the FMCG category. I think one key change one has seen in FMCG categories that you know the non-discretionary products they have suffered I mean they have been differently consumed the discretionary products have been very different in terms of consumption like for example you know if I were to give you example of say hair colors for example also beauty products you know they would have seen a very different kind of traction in the market vis-a-vis a health products vis-a-vis products which are food products or staples you know these products have seen much better times than the products which are very very discretionary in nature. Right right right so certain kind of product categories which were earlier not as much selling I mean they have been like you know selling in a bigger way that's what you need to say great. So tell me Dabur has a 136 year old in the herbal and ayurvedic heritage how has the brand leveraged this heritage during the pandemic when the focus has shifted to health and hygiene. So you know the health care parts the health related products you know the immunity products and the health products they have been on the center stage and these products have been in demand and they have definitely done much better than the other categories because you know the demand for the health and hygiene they had demand for health products has been phenomenal you know there's been a huge demand for these products and that's been the priority for people also you know apart from consuming food and food products and doing the basic needs after taking care of the basic needs health has been the primary importance hygiene has been primary importance so these products again you know have been important. Every competitive is now bringing a bit of fire weather in it actually right I think that's correct right. Yeah so there's a there's a there's a huge tailwind for it led by the government also government has made some announcements that you know that people should consume Kada for example or people should consume say products like Chawan brush for example. So government advisory has come from the ministry of Ayush so that also has helped companies to leverage on this part so that's why you see a lot of companies coming up with the products which are in this field and you know trying to use Ayurveda and trying to engage on Ayurveda. The fact remains that our has been the biggest Ayurveda company and we have we are the leaders in Ayurveda and that remains but other companies are just trying to get into this field and try to you know leverage this opportunity. Reports have indicated that non-metro markets are seeing upsurge in demand for higher I'm sorry upsurge in demand high which is higher than metro markets. Has the sentiment been the same for dopper on ground as well? So absolutely so so you know if you look at the data the first quarter of the year which is say cable to june the degrowth which one saw was much higher for the metros as compared to the non metros you know similarly the second quarter also there's been a degrowth but the non metros have been largely remain lesser affected I would say not I wouldn't say unaffected but lesser affected because you know when the lockdown began it was put into force the lockdown was very severe in metro markets. Thereafter I think severity of lockdown was lesser in studio tier two towns and was very very less in say rural areas in that order. So that has reflected in sales also that is reflected in the sales of products in metros and then tier two towns and then two radias and that trend continues you know that trend continues that you know the consumption of products has been much higher in these markets as compared to the metro markets and that that's likely to continue as the markets open up in metros I think things will ease out it's open a lot now but still you know there are a lot of restrictions for example schools are shared the restaurants are not open fully so these things also drive growth in metro markets to a large extent so that's affected metros much more than non metros. So I just want to just probe it a little bit more so when we say the triggers for higher demand in non metro markets when we talk about it is it also because there were lesser cases of you know covid and like you know they didn't really get affected the way metro people got affected you know was that one of the triggers or what are the other triggers you have observed that led to this surge? So yes so you know when is that lockdown was much more severe in metros that's because of the density of population also very high very very high in say metros and as compared to tier two towns so the spread was much lesser and they were much more open than than say than metros and rural areas where the spirit of covid is much much lesser so that is straight up reflected into opening of the markets opening of shops and hence the demand and and the consumption and if you and one more thing one has observed is that the job losses or if you have job losses has been much more than metros as compared to their tier two towns or tier three towns or rural areas where people are self-dependent and you know right the agriculture income etc. Right you know we've also observed that Dabur has launched more than 15 products and many and since the start of the pandemic but tell me how does how have non-meters responded to Dabur's new offerings? So similar trend as I mentioned to you that you know tier two towns and rural markets they contribute to about roughly about 70% of our global business so one is that I don't know about business is focused towards non-meters and rural so and those are much more open as compared to metros so so straight away translates into a better kind of demand in these markets plus our distribution strength of distribution of Dabur is is very very high in these markets you know as compared to say if you look at any other FNCG company we would have much better distribution in these areas. Right right you know Dabur has also backed on innovation, distribution enhancement and visibility particularly in the last six months you know any insights from non-meters that have been used to cater to consumers I mean to say which markets are you looking at to increase penetration and reach as you already have a very broad network but have you figured out you know in the last six months that there are more markets that can be reached out in the interiors of India? So so you know as I mean you would have our CEOs quoted many times that you know our rural penetration has been on the I mean we are focusing on rural penetration we are reaching out to more number of villages that was the focus last year so that continues as we go along so this is as far as the rural is concerned apart from that you know one more important chain one more important channel which one has seen has become very very significant is the e-commerce channel e-commerce channel has done phenomenally well in these COVID times and that because you know people are sitting at home they still had access to internet and people could order things from e-commerce channels and that has that is becoming very very significant for our business and for other FMCG as well. So apart from the rural penetration which I talked about this is very very different the channel but again very very important. Right so coming to media I mean the way brands are looking at media Dargav traditionally has been a big proponent of print media you know if we see look ahead as the you know media returns back in full force how do you see the role of print evolving in your media? So you know I have noticed that you know print so Dabar has been a very very big spender in print you know traditionally even the last year we were present in a big way but as far as when the when the COVID happens happened then what happened was that suddenly one saw a huge dip in print distribution and this observation came from the people who are who themselves are in print business for example and people who are say on the ground so there was a lot of confusion with respect to you know what is the circulation right circulation so if I if I want to give you examples of metro cities like Delhi and Bombay one saw that there was a huge dip in the the distribution of the newspapers when you look at your newspaper guy guy used to come with such a huge bundle outside in the bundle at Shankru this much that was the first indicator which could see which was visible to the eye then you know when you talk to the publishers you realize that a distribution has dropped and circulation has gone down but one did not get a correct answer from anybody that was the kind of drop you know in some markets they said we got to know that the distribution is down by 70 percent that means they know only 30 percent copies are getting distributed in some some markets which are say led by tier two tier three towns like markets like MPE or say UP and Rajasthan and all that as latest august we got to know that you know circulation is up to about 80 82 percent this is this information has been given to us by the publishers themselves you know so and there were some markets you know where the circulation was down to a great extent but the guys were claiming that you know our circulation is intact and you know we are 90 95 percent which is very hard to believe because you know one could see that you know there's been a significant drop in circulation so this has led to a major confusion in the minds of advertisers in the sense that the newspaper industry as a body has not come together and said that you know this is circulation we have this is the real circulation and this is the real circulation and this is the right price for this real circulation and hence you as a net user should pay so much money for this you know because if you look at our business I would say if you look at any business everybody would be interested in very very ROI led kind of buying right you would not like to look at you would not like to get only say a 30 percent circulation and pay 100 percent price right the the price has to be in tension with the with the circulation right right so one did not get the correct information now one has seen that you know that I think circulation is stabilized at least in the tier two terms and one can see that you know circulation is back back to 80 percent this again I'm this number 30 percent I'm telling you is what has been quoted to me by the by the publishers you know so if I were to believe 30 percent circulation that should straight away translate into the correct pricing of it so this confusion of the pricing and the circulation you know has not been very consistent across the markets the newspaper industry has not been together on this you know they have had a conflicting kind of this thing you know conflicting kind of numbers coming out from them and still you know I mean this time the festive period between now and say 14th of November when we have Diwali next 45 days are very important because this is a time when lots of players have ties in this period and the real impact of what is going to happen to print will be felt after this festive period is over right because you know FMC is traditionally we are ties all through the year we don't take a break or we don't start extraditing in say festive period like that so so my request to the print industry would be to come together come with the right pricing come and tell us exactly what is the circulation of your newspapers and give us a complete picture give us a holistic picture which is still missing right now as far as that is concerned. I have two more questions tell me how important are non-meters in your market mix what percentage of your sales is from non-meters and do you see this share increasing as we move ahead? So non-meters traditionally for companies like us is very very important you know and as I said that you know about roughly about 70% of our business would be non-meters and we will put together yeah so so so this market has been growing faster as compared to metro so so again this very very important market for us and one has one has very good distribution in these markets and in this period the global period one also saw that the smaller Kirana stores were supplying products to home even when the lockdown was was there and so suddenly the current Kirana stores have have come into focus come back into focus you know as compared to the modern trade that goes for metros and non-meters both so you know so all these factors led I mean leading to the non-metro markets and the rural market and the Kirana stores small format stores so all these lead to a better growth for our company like ours you know which has a deep distribution in rural areas and non-meters. Right my final question is about you know if we look ahead as we look ahead how do you see the demand in non-meters spanning out in terms of trends particularly within the with the upcoming festive season coming closer to it in fact the festive and the wedding season coming closer what are the broad trends that would lead this demand? So you know so broad trend was one has I mean as I mentioned in the beginning of the interview that I would assume that far lesser job losses in these markets far lesser impact of COVID in terms of spread of COVID in these markets much more open these markets are much more open as compared to others the smaller format stores doing much better so I would see that these markets are very very important for not only for us for this companies as well and if you look at the local newspapers in the tier two towns and say I mean non-metro towns you would see that you know surprisingly I mean this come to a great surprise to me that you know the advertising for the cars for example you know the advertising for cars advertising for the white goods the advertising for even for FMCGs one has seen a huge surge of advertising in these markets you know and that is primarily due to the good demand in these markets you know because these are these markets are not affected by COVID as much as CMETROS also great thank you Mr. Dubey for your time and talking to us and sharing your insights it's been pleasure talking to you thank you so much thanks for having me