 Welcome. We're live stream with a global audience. I'm Daniel Juergen, Vice Chairman of IHS Market. And the purpose of our session is to discuss the state of play of the energy transition and the priority issues for 2022. We'll discuss how the energy transition can go smoothly, what the risks are, what the challenges are. We'll begin today with a conversation with His Royal Highness Prince Abdul Aziz bin Salman, who is the Energy Minister of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And then we'll turn to our discussion with our distinguished panel. Welcome very much. Prince Abdul Aziz, glad to have a chance to talk to you today. You have been a while, at least before the Christmas and New Year, we haven't talked. Yes, well, the world keeps changing. But one theme that Prince Abdul Aziz said you've talked about is the role of energy security within the energy transition. And I'd like to just ask you how you see that relationship. Well, luckily, I have a racket ever since May last year have been consistent with the idea that the main pillar of energizing the world is to make sure that whatever we do should be consistent with maintaining energy security in the broader context of energy security. It means that the world does have a lot of an abundant resources and these resources need to be utilized, both hydrocarbon, fossil, renewable, hydrogen, all of the above. We should be consistently assuring the world that no matter what happens, the world economy would continue to be energized. And I did talk about these three pillars, energy security, which is a paramount and profound and then economic growth, economic prosperity and economic sustainability. And also, as I've always been saying, mindful of climate change, these three pillars cannot be for, you know, forfeited by one of them could be forfeited for the others. I think the world has the competence, the capability and the willingness, I hope, of working together where we can achieve this, maintaining these three pillars because without them, I don't think we will ever reach any of our targets, be it on energy security, be it on sustainability of growth of the world economy, and be it also making good of all our promises when it comes to climate change. Let me pick up on that. Clearly, Saudi Arabia is, of course, the forefront as an oil producer in the world and contributing to the stability of the oil market. At the same time, Saudi Arabia has been taking major steps in terms of energy transition in terms of the Saudi Green Initiative. And I'd like to hear how the Green Initiative is playing out. Well, the Green Initiative has much to do with what it's pertaining to do in Saudi Arabia. Then we have the Medias Green Initiative, which is another initiative which we want to make sure that not only ourselves, but even the entire region will be at work trying to deliver targets and maintain our commitments as a region with the support and help of others within the region and outside the region. Our Green Initiative is the main pillar of it is the circular carbon economy. We've been advocating that ever since November 19. And this is way much before the crisis or what happened to the oil market or what have you. And we've been consistent with that. We believe that the world had warranted a great approval in the form of both G20s in 2020 and 2021. We are trying to demonstrate that the four hours of the circular carbon economy will deliver us all of the above. It will deliver us energy security because it does not get into in the facetious discussion of what energy source should be of use. You know, I was in just two days ago in Abu Dhabi Sustainability Week and I did and would continue to repeat, we should not be picky and choosy about what energy source one country should use. I think it should be left to all countries to choose their own fitting choice based on their national resources and national abilities. We want to make sure that the whole world congregate and I'm at pain to make sure that our messages loud and clear that we feel that circular carbon economy can deliver all of the above when it comes to the real issue and the real cause. I believe and I hope I'm not wrong in my belief that we are all trying to congregate around the idea of reducing emissions of all greenhouse gases. And we should use every tool in the kit and even create any new tools in the kit to deliver us that target and that hope. If we are to do that in own honesty, we have to be honest about are we really trying to achieve that goal? Or are we trying to take that hope as a pretext to try to start choosing that we should get rid of hydrocarbon or should we could get rid of fossil fuels? We are going to be working with everybody when it comes to unabated hydrocarbon, unabated fossil fuel. I think we need to work on these things and we need to deliver on these things. We need to make sure that we create the right environment for green and blue hydrogen. We're willing to work with everybody. Circular carbon economy requires also being so much more innovative about recycling and reusing. And this is a fundamental issue also because we'll find out that CO2 will be a material as opposed to something that we will try to find them way here or there to get rid of it. But even if it is, the notion of remove is paramount in the circular carbon economy. Again, carbon sequesterization, carbon utilization, carbon capture, and creating sinks is paramount. If you look at all the initiatives of the Green, what his Royal Highness, the Crown Prince Green Initiative or Middle East Green Initiative, they all speak and talk about our, not only our commitments to do that at home, but also work with others to deliver these ambitions within the Middle East and even broader because as you may have heard Dan, we already plugged ourselves in the methane initiative. We are already working with the U.S. and other members of the new and we're hoping, by the way, to have Sierra Week as a launching pad for the net zero forum. We did it willingly and voluntary because we believe that we have serious efforts that we can showcase and we are not different from anybody when it comes to being conscious about the environment and conscious about delivering as a good result when it comes to mitigating climate change. Prince Abdul-Ziz, can I just ask you how would you define for this global audience the circular carbon economy? Very simple. You have to work on the four Rs which is removed and that can happen through using efficiency or as we are doing and will be doing which is converting your energy mix towards something that is more economical. I'm ready anytime, anyplace. I hope you could give me the treat or somebody give me the treat and I will showcase to you a case study of how Saudi Arabia will actually make more money by converging our converting our energy mix to the one that we are targeting which is taking away our entire power sector from using a million barrel of liquids towards 50% of gas and 50% of renewable. It's a profound economical case and I cannot think of any country on the planet earth that can demonstrate that. That by itself is going to give us at least 100 million tons of reduction of emissions in CO2 emissions. Our aggregate and the NDC that we've just recently issued before within the green initiative at the time of the green initiative and just before COP26 will get us reducing our emission by 278 million ton which is I repeat I would repeat that number because it's a number for people to watch. It is tantamount to the emissions, current emissions of the countries following which is Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar and Oman and a little bit more than what is the current emission of the UAE taken UAE separately. So the recycling it's again and reusing it is about making sure that that CO2 yes will be captured but it would be put into a good use where we could use it for creating more materials like carbon boards like so many other things. We have Sabik that are doing something of that sort. The remove as I said it's very simple carbon capture, air capture, carbon capture and sequestration and use also we're also you know piloting it with Aramco we're collaborating in a forum that the US is hosting it's been hosting for the last 15 years. We have nothing to hide and we are not shying away from being there and proactively engaged with everybody. What we want to do is for people to avoid you know I really would like to see the true colors of everybody. Are we after getting rid of hydrocarbon and fossil fuel using climate change as a pretext for that to happen or are we really sincere and serious in attending to climate change and if we are we should be indifferent about what sort of energy source is used so long it is being mitigated. So Prince Abdul Aziz first very striking 50 percent of your power from renewables to come but you spoke you just use the word colors that brings up the subject of hydrogen blue and green and as a last question just to ask you what are the initiatives that the kingdom is doing on hydrogen how do you see it playing out? Okay just last yesterday I was in the phone with France Timmerman and we're working with the EU and many member states of the EU on green hydrogen in fact we are congregating with others to make sure that we scale up the market one of the more concerning issue is this how much green hydrogen market would be in the years to come. Once we can do that and I hope we can do it in aggregate because that will be the biggest enticel. We're hoping that we become if we are accepted to be but I worry a lot because again we may get into an energy of security issue that some may not like the idea of seeing Saudi Arabia as also being predominant on green hydrogen but we will be and we hope that we could be accepted because we have the word with us to be the least cost producer of green hydrogen and you remember I did explain to you before Dan blue hydrogen is also it's going to be we will have a field day with blue hydrogen because again we're the cheapest cost producer of gas we're doing a huge investment on shared gas in Saudi Arabia and we will be dedicate amount of that gas to be used for producing blue hydrogen there is another funky type of hydrogen which we call it pink now and hopefully when we do our our nuclear investments who knows we will we are recruiting by the way young Saudi ladies that they are happy to see that pink coming along so in their time hopefully you will see a Saudi pink hydrogen pink produced somewhere in Saudi Arabia right it's a hot that we call it pink rather than yellow hydrogen but that's the terminology Prince Abdul Aziz thank you very much for joining us today with this we are very conscious of being taken care of our female new recruits and new cadets and we're becoming as a country an extremely well emancipated society well thank you very much for joining us today for Davos 2022 look forward to seeing you in person I'm glad to see you today we've been talking with His Royal Highness Prince Abdul Aziz the energy minister of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and now following on that discussion we turn to our panel discussion for a global view on on energy transition from China we'll have chairman Shin Bian who's a chairman of state grid from the United States Vicki Hollitt who's the president and CEO of Occidental Petroleum and from Europe Bjorn Rosengren who's the president and CEO of that technology powerhouse ABB and I guess I'd say from the world Dr. Fatih Baral who is the executive director of the international energy agency so I'd like to begin welcome all of you to our discussion today begin with chairman Shin state grid state grid is the largest utility in the world the second largest company in the world and this year is spending 580 billion RMB almost a hundred billion dollars just this year on its capital expenditure chairman Shin we're very glad to see you state grid has a carbon peak carbon neutral plan can you describe how that plan works thank you dear participants dear guests happy new year first of all I'd like to thank Dr. Schwab and thank the BF for inviting us to participate in this forum and this is a very important opportunity for us to learn we know that in September 2020 President Xi Jinping has made China's carbon peaking peak and carbon neutrality commitment and this actually pushed the acceleration button of the Chinese energy transition in 2021 China added more than 100 million kilowatts of solar power and wind power and it is estimated that by 2030 the instrumental capacity of wind and solar power in China will go beyond 1.2 terawatts as the largest utility state grid will act as an industrial leader and innovation advocate and a bold pioneer in energy transition under the 14th five-year plan from 2021 to 2025 we plan to invest more than 350 bidding dollars in order to transit our grid to energy into the internet and we also need to build a new power system with more renewables we will promote the energy transition in the full following respects first of all we will build and create interconnectivity in order to handle the great connection of renewable energies and large-scale distribution of renewable energies we adopted a centralized and distributed renewable energy development plan we know that the energy base in the west area and the the loading center in the east area between those two there are at least thousand and three thousand kilometers so we need long-distance electricity power transformation furthermore in order to develop the wind power and the coastal area we still need the support of the state grid that's the reason why we are focusing on strengthening the interconnectivity of grids and also the optimization of resources currently we have built 29 UHV ultra-high voltage projects the longest transmission distance reached 3300 kilometer we also have transmitted more than 240 gigawatts of electricity across the region and provinces by 2030 this number will rise to 350 gigawatts secondly through the system adjusting ability we will be handle the problem of mismatch and also handle the intermittent and volatile nature of renewable energy first of all we have been building in a pumped storage hydro electricity station currently we have built or we are building 63 pumps pumped storage facilities and as did estimated that by 2030 the installed capacity of pumped storage will reach 100 gigawatts secondly we're doing demand side resource participation and system regulation currently we have 37 gigawatt of adjustable loads and this number will reach 70 gigawatts by 2030 in the meanwhile we strive to to support the new energy storage system like a chemical storage system and we are also contributing to the flexibility of thermal power plants in order and also in order to improve the peak shaving capacity of the whole power system thirdly we are doing all-ever utmost to increase the digitalization of the grid we also offer facilities for the great connection of distributed new energy development and electric cars for example today we have built the largest new energy cloud platform across the world and provide the facility service online we have connected 20 sorry 2.67 million solder and winged stations with 540 gigawatt connected we also built the largest smart car platform connecting more than 1.5 million charging stations. Fourthly we strive to tackle the challenge of stable and safe operation of power grids brought by high penetration of new energy we know that with the rising share of the renewable energy the technological base and operating mechanism power system will undergo deep challenges and we will be facing challenges in terms of grid operations so we're doing research and development and to handle those challenges and difficulties thank you. Thank you Chairman Shin for such a comprehensive view and we'll come back and ask some more specifics about how state grid is preparing and adjusting for the energy transition let me turn now to Vicky Hollop who's the president and chief executive officer of Occidental Petroleum. Vicky let me ask you how you see the U.S. oil and gas industry responding to the energy transition. I think Dan the response is is growing and it's maturing and so I think that certainly with respect to the oil and gas industry the European companies were a bit ahead of those of us here in the United States but I think that we're picking up steam and a lot of that is due to the fact that I think we all realize that climate change is real it's going to happen and it's happening today and things need to be done to ensure that we can mitigate it so we're all beginning with just controlling emissions from our own operations and doing that in a different way we've had we have facilities today that have been in operation for 50 60 years and without a lot of innovation on the surface we've innovated a lot in drilling we've innovated a lot in completions and in subsurface modeling but the way we handle our our products on the surface has not changed significantly and so that's the real push I think for the U.S. industry and the industry around the world and in some places we have closed-loop systems that are better equipped to reduce and mitigate methane emissions as well as CO2 and so it's it's really important for us to continue that process of of getting our facilities into the you know the the 21st 21st century here we've got to move into a into a better place for that well Vicki let me just ask you one other question about the U.S. industry a year and a half ago or so it looked like the shale industry which had grown so dramatically was in big trouble it's now rebounded very strongly in fact the growth of the U.S. shale this last year and this year is a very important element in the stability of the world oil market just how you see what's happening with U.S. shale well I think it's it gets back to that innovation piece we at one time the United States we we had where we were running 1,083 rigs in December of 2018 and today we're running about 590 rigs and we don't need to run over a thousand rigs anymore because we've innovated to the point where we can drill wells a lot faster our completions are a lot better in that the recovery on a per well basis is much better than it used to be so with reduced drilling time faster time to market improved recovery all of that makes the the shale of business in the United States a lot stronger than it was two to three or four years ago so being able to bounce back from this crisis has I think been another sign of how we can innovate when we're when a crisis does occur and hopefully our innovation around climate change will be as dramatic and I think it will and I'm excited about that too but innovation around our industry it's always been the thing that helped us deal with it all the challenges that we've faced and today it's even more impressive so the United States can rebound I do believe though that the governor on US production will not be the technology or our capability or the resources available it will be the investment community's concern about what discipline is and in their view that they they've been burned a few times by our industry so right now they view discipline to be no growth and the US can grow and can grow and deliver good returns and deliver value to the shareholders but we've got to prove that it is striking Vicky that US production now has grown to the degree that it's two million barrels a day larger than either Saudi Arabia or Russia right now and will grow again this year I'm going to come back in a few minutes and ask you about some of the things the industry and particularly Occidental is doing on carbon but let me pick up your your word innovation and turn to a very innovative company which is ABB and its president Bjorn Rosengren Bjorn we've been talking and obviously the Prince Abdul Aziz was talking about the pace of electrification of course Chairman Shin described the the awesome growth of electrification in China ABB is right at the center of that it's and electrification is proceeding in industry in mobility in the lives of everybody as a company that's at the forefront of electrification what for you are the front the new frontiers for electrification thank you Dan for the question and thank you for having me on the panel first I would like to state that today two-third of the total primary energy in the world goes to waste that includes power generation transportation industry and buildings I think we need to rethink industrial production we need to rethink transportation and we need to rethink the way we live from a sustainability angle let me give you some examples and the first one is in relation to production mining operations need to be sustainable many mines have started the journey towards being fully electrified when we look at steel production which need to be carbon-free the technology for producing green steel is already there and the first carbon-free steel has already been delivered and finally hydrogen which we heard of more about here earlier need to be produced using green energy and when you look at transportation for instance immobility plays an important role and we need to make sure that the buildings we live in are both smarter and more energy efficient we like to say the best energy is the one we don't waste but save in fact energy efficiency improvement will drive more than 40 percent of the reduction of the energy related greenhouse gases emissions over the next 20 years so let's make sure that we tackle the most energy and carbon incentive industries first this way we can make a difference where it really matters and the good news is that most of the technologies needed already exist today we recently had a capital market day at ABP focused on sustainable transports it showed clearly that there is not one solution for all as energy needs differ between application both in terms of power and duration but it's clear electrification plays a big role in all these cases you know there can be applications where electricity storage works like for instance immobility where EV charges are used to charge batteries but in other application for example in the marine industry there can be a hybrid solution with liquid fuels for example green hydrogen that provides the power for battery storage and electrical propulsion so I think we need to see all this as great instead of challenges great opportunities for us so if I conclude a little bit besides new and efficient technologies there is also a strong need for changing consumer choices and behavior in fact the international energy agency estimated that 55 percent of the mission reduction will be driven by consumer choices to reach this the right incentives and regulation frameworks also actually need to be in place well thank you I'm struck by the way that you began by talking about mining as a industry that needs electrification given that we know that mining is going to become a lot more important in terms of providing the materials that are needed for really for the energy transition and will do much larger it's quite I mean I agree with you it's a very important industry and it's also an industry that takes this seriously you know we deal with most of the mining companies globally and I think everyone has on the gander electrification I mean it's all the equipment you are using that presently are using diesel fuels in operation but it's also the power generation you need you know to power the mining operations and I think more or less everyone has the electrification on the agenda so it's it's it's important and it's going to be an important industry that takes this move going forward and as you know kind of energy efficiency has been called the fifth fuel because and because you think about it as an energy source and I mean I think back to the original work I did when I was at the Harvard Business School that was the focus of it and ABB is at the forefront of this but as you as you said there's a lot of opportunity there as you look at it one of the biggest challenges to to capturing that fifth fuel energy efficiency you know I personally believe that that is going to be one of the most important because we have so many big installations let me take an example there are about 300 million electric motors today operating in the world and only 20 percent of them are actually equipped with what we call variable speed drive which make them more efficient they're using the last technology that are there so by actually improving and adding these drives to the rest of these motors worldwide we would actually be able to to save 10 percent of the electricity in the world so we're talking about really huge number just to drive efficiency right well I think that really emphasizes that one example thank you Bjorn I'm going to turn now to Fatih Baral Fatih Bjorn has already invoked the the writ of the IEA in his remarks about the role the IEA provides as the the overview of world energy the IEA has over years produced many scenarios but none is more famous than the net zero scenario net zero carbon scenario produced last spring it's very famous it's much discussed people find different interpretations of it what is the essential message of that scenario many thanks Dan it was great to hear all the colleagues and their deliberations from different perspectives before going to net zero let me just make a smaller remark you mentioned the energy efficiency important as the fifth fuel I don't know what the other four are but at the IEA we call energy efficiency is the first fuel so just to put it our how shall I say number one okay the significance we put to energy efficiency now Dan this is good this is you are right our global net zero roadmap is very famous for the overwhelming majority of the the international community it has been embarrassed and today many governments around the world from India to Chile from Indonesia to South Africa many European countries are asking us to this global report global roadmap to make it domestic for them and we are working for those countries to prepare their domestic roadmap so what is this roadmap net zero it is very simple so when we were in this word economic forum we are following a lot of panels like this there are many languages people speak in different languages English French Arabic Chinese Spanish and there's a translation what we have done is very simple in this book we made a translation the scientists around the world told us that to keep the planet as is to have it safe and sustainable global temperature can increase maximum 1.5 degrees Celsius full stop and this is the overwhelming body of the scientists around the world who are all respected by the IPCC so what we have done we have translated this 1.5 in order to reach that target what steps need to be taken in the energy sector we did not say it is easy it is difficult it is likely unlikely we said these have to be done and when I look at the our analysis this is somebody who makes his hands dirty with data every single day to go from today 80% of the energy coming from fossil fuels to a net zero emissions by 2050 it requires a Herculean effort Herculean effort very very difficult but it is not impossible now we have two choices either we continue to use unabated fossil fuel coal oil and gas and leave it climate change much more frequent and extreme weather events or very simple we change the way we produce and consume energy we have these two choices and we said if we want to reach 1.5 degrees this and these steps have to be taken for example coal 2050 you don't have unabated coal basically from a major number one just for people a few electrified people same for oil and same for gas yes then for people this is a global audience not everybody will know what unabated means can you define unabated I think the same expression used the the our Saudi energy minister this is same unabated which means if we do not take the carbon out of the oil gas and coal if because the issue is today 80% of the emissions causing climate change comes from the energy sector without fixing the problem in the energy sector we have no chance whatsoever to fix our problem and one good technology here is of course carbon capture and as a sequestration so final thing here I wanted to perhaps it can be a good pass to the other speaker here we have to recognize the task for the developed and developing countries are different tasks and they have different responsibilities and different means I just wanted to underline as we have done in our global roadmap to net zero so let me just ask you before going back to our other panelists so from this scenario or you from your thinking just two numbers what do you see as the investment that's necessary in renewables over the years ahead and what about what investment that will be necessary in oil and gas thank you then for the clean energy this renewable carbon capture nuclear energy efficiency for all of them every year the world has to invest about three trillion US dollars and today we are investing about one trillion dollar so there's a one to three gap in terms of fossil fuels we will still need fossil fuels their contribution will decline especially we will need gas many years to come oil will decline but we will still need oil and for for that we need about each year 300 billion US dollars so it is what more or less what we have today the issue is how to navigate how to manage this clean energy transition properly and if you don't manage it properly we will see a lot of volatility in the markets as we are seeing today so the issue is today how the governments are they able to manage this transition in the proper in an appropriate way or are we going to see a lot of volatility in the energy markets as we are experiencing nowadays so thank you Fatih I think that you have obviously pointed to central risk in the energy transition whether it's smooth or not thought has to do with policy and investment I'd like to turn to back to chairman Shin because of the scale and size of state grid and we've heard the word innovation from our other panelists and state grid has been a great innovator and ultra in long distance transmission chairman Shin you talked about storage being very important operationally as you bring more renewables into the energy mix can you tell us what you see as the timing and the need in terms of storage and what you find what will be the most important contributions to storage of electricity thank you for your question first of all I fully agree with the other panelists who mentioned that for the energy transition increase the energy efficiency and reduce the consumption those are important measures that we should focus on to state grid we have been actively promoting the energy transition we believe that we can do we can have positive impacts on two fronts first of all as the largest utility company our measures promoting the energy transition can efficiently promote global carbon emission reduction according to research 70 percent of the carbon emission arise from energy sector and from china's perspective 80 percent of the emission stand from energy sector the share of power industry in energy sector is 40 percent is more than 40 percent therefore through the development and upgrade of state grid and we can promote renewable energy development and also promote the reduction of carbon emission according to our calculation from 2021 to 2023 through our efforts to promote energy transition and to increase the improved the clean power level we will reduce 22 bidding towns of silto emission secondly we will also provide important experience for the global market because in building the power system with more renewables in promoting the power grid upgrade we have encountered a lot of problems and challenges which are not unique to china those are universal challenges or hurdles therefore we believe that our development our practice and our exploration can not only benefit be beneficial to china but also provide experiences and inspiration for other countries of course during the course of energy transition you have mentioned about the energy storage energy storage is an important means for developing renewable energies in the future and today in terms of energy storage we have been developing pumped storage hydro electricity and also developing chemical energy storage of course we have also developing other technologies to that to that end those technologies are undergoing research and development and part of trials i believe that through the development of the new technology we can contribute to the consumption of new energy and to the stability of state grade thank you thank you very much vicky fatih was talking about abatement prince octal z talked about carbon capture you're thinking about carbon capture and in particular you talked about innovation you oxy is innovating on a particular type of carbon capture and i think it'd be very important to just share what that is yes we're we're really excited about our direct air capture facility that we plan to build in the permeant basin with beginning construction actually by the end of this year this direct air capture facility is the first one will extract 500 thousand tons per year out of the atmosphere but the ones that follow that will each extract 1 million tons per year out of the atmosphere the reason this is so important is for those that may not realize is that the co2 in the atmosphere is 50 percent higher than in pre-industrial times so abatement of current sources of co2 emissions is not enough what we have to do is we have to extract co2 out of the air as well and we started on our journey to to look at abatement and or removal about 10 years ago and it was only after we we worked to try to develop anthropogenic sources i realized that's a more difficult task actually than going down the path that we're going down now because building the direct air capture facility requires just our decision not the emitters decision as well and so we're we're working on this it's been exciting to develop this technology and what we've been able to do is pull together existing technologies piece them together and as Bjorn had said you know the technology does exist you just have to put it together in the right way and make it as efficient as possible to to do this extraction so to support the direct air capture facility we also have another technology that we're very excited about we need to power that facility and to power the direct air capture we're going to be using a combination of solar but also a new technology called net power and net power generates electricity through the combustion of hydrocarbon gases with oxygen instead of air and it uses the co2 to drive the turbine and that that process can generate a lower cost of electricity than a typical gas fired generation plant that's equipped with retrofitted with carbon capture so this will be competitive to that and better than that in that it's otherwise emission free it captures the co2 as a pure stream and then we can use that in one of the three ways that we're contemplating using co2 and and we can use it in our EOR operations and and that's why we're we're making this this big push is that if we can use co2 in our EOR operations that enables us to leverage our experience our expertise our assets and our infrastructure so it makes it more affordable and over time what we are trying to help the the world to realize is that the last barrel of oil produced in the world should come from an enhanced oil recovery reservoir because that can be a net zero or net negative barrel of oil it's very similar to synthetic or biofuels and as body was talking about previously and in the past some of the comments he's made is that we really need to get more production out of the reservoirs we have today rather than going and developing sources that are in pristine areas or in areas that are much higher cost so use of co2 and enhanced oil recovery is one way to do it converting it to products we're also because we have a strong chemicals business we're also working on technologies to convert the co2 that we captured bioethylene which will be a big win for our chemicals business and then pure sequestration in areas where we don't have the ability to use the co2 as products and we're advancing that and really excited about it thank you so I'm going to ask a last question to Bjorn Bjorn you mentioned in your remarks that a lot of energy efficiency will really depend upon customers or or consumer choices and the consumers in your case are industrial firms customers you mentioned the interest in mining and you mentioned those 300 million motors around the world to what degree do you find industry responsive and focused on capturing energy efficiency that you can deliver to them thank you for the question yeah I believe that the most industries today have this highest up on there again bore to make sure that the present operations are efficient enough and then managing the transition towards more renewables or low carbon societies so I think it's more or less we see this of course that we are supporting our customers and and the impact we actually make is a help our customers to be more efficient but also to manage this transition and of course we see requests coming up in all type of industries and I from a person's point of view I think it's a quite exciting time for for our company but for every other company that need to transform thank you Chairman Shin Vicky Hall of Bjorn Rosengren and of course our other two panelists is Royal Highness Prince Abdul Aziz and Fatih Baral have you've all set out really the agenda for 2022 and thus we have fulfilled the role of helping to address the Davos agenda 2022 for the world energy for the World Economic Forum and I want to thank you all for joining us for this discussion and thank our viewers around the world for joining us on the topic of how to navigate the energy transition in 2022 and well beyond that thank you very much and thank you to our panelists