 Okay, so welcome everyone today. So this is a CNCF meeting so just reminding everyone that everyone is supposed to adhere to the CNCF code of conduct, which basically means just be respectful and kind to each other so that should be an easy one. And then we wanted to change the meeting time because it's more what we have two people from Europe, so this is not a very convenient time. Most of you are a lot of you participated in the poll, but I think I gave too many options and it kind of like I don't know spread out a little bit so I created a new poll. With the three top options that were just not enough people participated, so I was like okay let's try that again. Again all the links and everything are in the agenda and I will share that again, I can share that again in the in our Slack channel. Okay, then another thing I wanted to mention is that so we're not officially a CNCF working group yet that takes a few things. One thing is we need a charter, I think most content we already have. But we also need a leadership team and so ideally we would want to have two deaf and hard of hearing co-chairs, right. And so if anyone of you is interested and a lot of you are probably new to open source and so on so that's why I wanted to be a little bit more explicit about it so basically. I mean this is a community driven event so it shouldn't be one person talking all the time right anyone can participate and if anyone of you is interested. This is like a chance to kind of yeah just step up engage like everyone can do that not only the people who would like to be co-chairs but everyone can just take you know initiatives and run with things right it doesn't have to be me. Right like just wanted to be really clear and it shouldn't be me so I really really looking for other people who can take on that role and I can say it's a lot of fun and yeah I look forward to finding some people who would like to volunteer so. If you have any questions now you can ask them but also if you prefer via DM as well but first if anyone has any questions now. Sorry I was I was a little late but. So what do you. Is it for this. For this. Yes, exactly so. We're basically so I was always saying we're a working group and so we are. We want to be a working group to be an official CNCF working group. We we need a leadership team right and so we're looking for like ideally I would love to have like to death or hard of hearing co-chairs because this initiative should be driven by. People who are part of that community right and so. Right now the next. I don't know month two months like this is an opportunity for anyone who would like to be to take that role to kind of take initiative participate and and again which. Everyone should not only people who want to so but yeah so I just wanted to clarify that because I know a lot of people are new to open source and it's not really clear how that works and so. Yeah, just. That's what I want to say and like again if you have any questions and you want to do them private or anything like I'm just in me. Okay, so next. Yeah, I wanted to make some speaking opportunities or speaking you so I'm very excited that destiny will be speaking at cube crash, doing a little lightning talk about this initiative and. One of the ideas is really to create like a presentation that anyone can just use so whenever you have a opportunity and a local conference or wherever you know like we want people just to talk about what we're doing. And to raise awareness. So that would be our very first and john and I actually submitted exactly the same talk for keep calm so we'll find out next week Monday by the way, if we got accepted and if we do. We would love to do that with Ian who will be there as well. So we didn't know that when we were submitting so. And then also KCD taxes so for those who do not know KCD is Kubernetes community days, if you're familiar with DevOps days. It's a very similar concept so the CNCF kind of mimicked what DevOps days is doing so these are community driven events. And so in Texas, there will be such an event and they were interested in learning more about this initiative and they're the higher education initiative and kind of asked me if I wanted to submit a talk. And of course I would love to do that with someone who is that we're hard of hearing. I know it is. I mean it like I don't know so I was wondering if anyone is interested in lives close fight to Irvine. I know J Jackson sat that he lives in Houston so that's not super close I don't know, but that opportunity still exists. So that's why I think it's good we're also adding like where we're coming from but I'm not seeing anything in Texas so I guess in this group, probably it's a little far away but if you know anyone that opportunities open. Exactly thanks, Rob, not in California yes. And then also I know it's very far away but KubeCon Paris next year the CFP will open and it's crazy. But we have a lot of time, but I thought like, let's start thinking about it. I would love to submit a talk either either in Paris or wherever the North American is like a panel discussion with you where you talk about your experiences and tech and challenges and so that will be great. Maybe a good opportunity to ask like if you get accepted would that be something that your employer would pay and just like getting that information. We still have time again but that will be awesome and if that's too far away. We can wait a few more months and then we have a KubeCon North America which I don't know yet no one knows actually maybe Amy June actually knows because she works at a Linux foundation when that will be where that will be. So, yeah, oh and we have two French members right Emmanuel and Aurelie. Emmanuel is on vacation in Aurelie. It's obviously very late as well so hopefully we can get them to do something they're a co-presentation or something but I'll ping them. And then again a quick reminder that the CNCF encouraged our deaf and hard of hearing members to submit a scholarship request if you would like to come to the next KubeCon so that's Chicago in November. So there is funds to help you get there right so it will be awesome. I will be there, John will be there, George will be there and I will be there so it would be great to have more people. And then, and again like the links are in the agenda so if you're interested if you can just find it there and and and apply and also feel free. I think destiny applied feel free to share your application with the team you know like if you want any feedback we want to be helped like if there's any way we can help you to like, you know get like a really good application and what that's what we're here for right one of our goals is to support each other. And then we do have our repo folder. So link is there as well nothing is there in there yet except for quick description but like FYI, as we build our resources that's where they were lit will live. And we started with Rob, who gave me like an interesting link a full not a full tracking sheet for relevant organizations, because we're thinking as you come across some organizations that might be useful who could we could partner up with the deaf deaf kids code for instance or there was a conference about diversity and anything that could be interesting. Doesn't matter if it's something we were planning now but it would be great to have like a place where we can add all these links so once we start reaching out and work. And trying to find partners and so on like that we have a place to, you know, find all these these organizations. And yeah, and then let's go to the team updates I think this is Robert. Oh yeah. Hi, this is Rob. I just wanted to add one thing to include includes the NCF. The application for the funds to go to that particular conference in Chicago. The AWS also has a global, a global fund if you will global fund foundation where you apply. If you are deaf or hard of hearing or disabled in some fashion, with less than five years of technical experience. So you can go ahead and apply for that and go to the reinvent in Las Vegas. What that's going to be at the end of November. So there's a lot happening in November. So anyway, that would be fun to get together get these groups together and at Chicago and in Las Vegas. So feel free and encourage everybody to apply for both of those items. Oh, and also, I put together like that list that Catherine was just talking about wanting to add conferences that deaf and hard of hearing folks could have, you know, a good number of people showing up that in conferences that are geared to disabilities. Also, you know, also having discussions about tech. I did find one just a new conference, which is Tapia, which I've never heard of before. The Tapia conference that's actually on a spreadsheet list. It seems that that is a tech focused conference with with a disability bent to itself. They added that to the list and just want to make sure that you all are able, you know, if possible, go to these conferences and show CNCF the solidarity within the deaf community to ensure that, you know, these conferences are still accessible. And to help with networking as well. Help us out right for our future careers. Awesome. And go ahead. No, I was just going to say, we'll, we'll add that link. And Josh mentioned that as well in the, in the notes so that people can find that I know that you added that in the, in the, in the chat in the Slack channel. It's really great like as you see things like just tell people right all these opportunities we should kind of share those since we're talking about conferences still and Jay joined a little later I was talking about the KCD, Texas. So I know Houston is not that close, but that still stands so I was also going to comment a little later so it's not a tech talk. So basically we would be talking about the initiative so you don't have to be Kubernetes expert you just have to be an expert and, you know, the challenges and why this is important so it's it's more an awareness and like what, because we are a CNCF group and basically we were telling people what we're doing why it's important why we need these initiatives so you're, I'm pretty sure you're totally qualified to participate if that's something. It's not too far away or my apologies, but probably for the interpreter that this is Jay. So I'll be back up to where I got started there. So I'm not very good at public speaking, in general, but my experience, my death experience compared with other folks, you know I do know has been very limited. So I don't really use interpreters I haven't really used interpreters and my accessibility at work is a bit easier, if you will, so I don't know what I can provide but I'm certainly willing to come in and meet people and learn about that and see what I can do if you have to do that. Okay, but let's touch base offline and just FYI, I hate public speaking. I'm afraid of public speaking I still do it, because I think it's important for my career it's important so I push myself to do it I feel not comfortable at all so I'm going to push everyone here as well to do that because it's really good for your career so. I guess you really don't want to but I urge everyone, because I think it is, it is a really valuable experience. I was just going to speak up to like a new company I'm working for is based out of Austin, and it's about three hours away, so I can tentatively looking to doing a onsite during that week and swing up by there for the weekend. Awesome. Yeah, let's chat about that. Yeah, awesome. Okay, I think then we're up. James, I think James said. He takes great pictures of Irvine for your for your book there. I saw your vacation photos on Twitter. Yeah, finally back. So it's like the return promo. Awesome. Yeah, anyway, just again this is Rob just wanted to encourage us to network, not only public speaking but networking, right that's very important, getting the word out about CNCF and the deaf and hard of hearing work group, right getting that word out there and sharing that information. And that way, it makes people think in the increases awareness and more, you know, again, focusing on open source within the deaf to make the open source field I should say, and certainly will allow us more opportunities to show our faces in our hands. Well, of course, so it'd be great to get the word out there again networking and just encouraging folks to do that. And then let's see there was something else. Oh, Catherine, you wanted to discuss the next topic or Yeah, if we're done with this we can move on to David. Yes, so for our team, we have been discussing creating pathways for deaf and hard of hearing individuals and through cloud native and open source. So far we've got a couple of possible strategies on one is partnering with like deaf and hard of hearing colleges, universities, organizations, et cetera, and provide faculty with the tools that they need to teach students the skills. So we were considering on pointing faculty to like the higher ed working group, but it has been pointed out to us that that is a very new working group that probably won't be like your son until it's ready. So that's kind of down the road a little bit. Moving on to cloud native talks from deaf and hard of hearing individuals, which we talked to those professionals and see if they're willing to give talks about that. And I know I know there are people here who have in fact done those sorts of talks. You also have a good suggestion on a little possible tactic of educating the Linux foundation and see on the up on accommodations and recommendations for mentorship program and what just came up today so we haven't really discussed it yet but I think that's great as well. So that's kind of where we are right now after a bit of a slow start but getting there. David I'm sorry to interrupt this is the interpreter. CN would you mind what is what is the words for CN. What does that stand for. Oh, no computing foundation. Okay, thank you. One thing that I was going to say. So, um, yeah, the higher at working group is, yeah is newer than this group. Right, so it's like it's just so it will take a long time to create the curriculum. But one thing that can be done actually I thought about that later is, well the first thing is like finding these people at the universities right and saying like this is going on are you interested would you be interested right like doing that outreach and letting them know that this exists. And I did that I think the first organization person I reached out to was at someone at Gallaudet University. And the idea about doing a talk was actually something that the professor suggested. There's something there are interested in that. So I, because it was early on, we didn't have anyone. So I said like wait, wait, we have this group. So there is someone like so there is that opportunity at Gallaudet University and they're interested. But I said that we're going to reach out when we're ready. So I think it would be great if someone could do that eventually not right away but once we have that presentation kind of figured out and it's basically what is kind of, you know, why is it interesting why is it exciting kind of it's it's more an educational high level entry, kind of entry level talk that gives an introduction to cloud native to students to just see like if they're interested because that's a topic that is covered in universities to universities typically. And so I think Rob you studied at Gallaudet I don't know if anyone else did so I think I thought that was perfect would have someone who was. Yeah. Yes, and also, I'm also an alumni of the Rochester Institute of Technology RIT and the National Technical Institute for the deaf which is a very technically sort of oriented and strong program as compared with Gallaudet so in terms of like science majors and data science at NTID that's a really strong field and the technical competency is very high so everyone is becoming developers and software developers data scientists and the like. When they graduate with that degree from I personally had a degree in economics and finance from NTID but I didn't end up doing anything with software data architecture but you know figures but I would be someone who could potentially go or organize someone to go to either NTID or to Gallaudet to to discuss that for the future and discussing why it's important to have open source available. So I'd be happy to expand on that. As far as NTID I recently joined this group. I'm sorry Brian Traeger recently joined this group have you seen that name. He's a professor at NTID. So you may see that name as well. Yeah. Yeah he joined but like he was I think he's kind of maybe busy now with the since classes that started but yeah so I did actually did hunt him down a little bit and that's how he joined so maybe it was a little early but so yeah I think one thing would be like creating again like one of the things that we want is like have like several presentations right that anyone can use so something that's repurposeable one would be like the lightning talk about our like our initiative another one would be like an introduction into cloud native to to kind of tell students or maybe people that deaf and hard of hearing and tech or who might be interesting who don't know much about cloud native yet and would be interested in learning more so once we have that presentation that could be something that we could actually do in a shorter term right like the curriculum is not something that is available yet and then I think it's the first step anyways because we need to see like are you interested is there interest and then like kind of like the next step would be how can we provide more educational material. Good I think if we don't have anything else I think we could move to Rob. Let me go ahead and share my screen here. Oh will we see. Yeah so I yeah I just did you I may have missed something I was looking at another screen. That's the danger of being deaf and hard of hearing. Right, you cannot multitask in these situations. So if you told me something. I probably missed it. Anyway. So by missing something you want me to start on how to empower deaf and hard of hearing individuals by being more active and more visible within the community right so love some ideas from all of you as a group. A few of us have already presented in some capacity for provide some ideas, going to some conferences, typically will go to conferences to network to give talks. And then conferences advertising being cool hey come in this is a really cool conference see this really cool talk, watch and learn about new technologies, but career wise, it doesn't always help us. Right. We learn from doing most of the time, we learn from our co workers and interacting with them hey there's this new feature in a certain product what have you. So, you know it's cool so that's we learn as we go, or we're reading certain documents trying to come up to speed and learning about new features and whatnot. But I'm always trying to make the point that we need to attend conferences to network, right to interact with other folks outside of just these talks, right, go to happy hour. Have a cocktail or two, get a little buzz right have a good time interact with these these maybe you know if you don't drink that's totally fine too. But the point I'm trying to make here is that you need to find career opportunities, you need to find out what the problems that other folks are facing, and then implement certain technologies. Try to find out what they're doing. What they're doing as far as debugging how they're debugging. So, really, this is like really important information that we are unaware of because we're not networking. So, again, trying to encourage the NCF to provide interpreters outside of these side of the conference hours, right conference hours typically are nine to five generally right, but of course, all the cool stuff happens after hours after five o'clock. So it would be nice if as part of the registration fee or registration package to be able to incorporate the cost of interpreters, you know, whatever they're requested. Typically companies will host it at a restaurant or at a bar, what have you, or maybe top golf. And a lot of deaf folks are like that I want to bother doing that because the interaction is lacking it's very, very difficult that interpreters and everybody's talking loudly there's a lot of it ambient noise and it's very difficult to network in those situations without interpreters. So, but by providing interpreters for after hours with deaf and hard of hearing folks would have that access so anybody agree or disagree or aligns with that that's my first point. That's that that's my first tactic, tactical approach. Also, want to talk more about providing talks, presenting conferences. Oh, by the way, feel free to interrupt me at any time. Just wave your hands and get my attention. So again, I want to encourage folks to take out these opportunities in the media opportunities to speak at conferences. I was on CNBC, that a month or so ago. And I got just absolutely a great impressions by people in my company and swallow swallow more aware right. They were like, I show you on CNBC that's so awesome, which was great. AWS containers team. AWS has put a lot of money towards CNCF. So a AWS has just been absolutely fantastic when it comes to, you know, like again with me being on CNBC that was a big deal for AWS, and they knew that so they were thrilled to see that. So that means that AWS will continue to contribute to CNCF because we're they're getting this spotlight right. I mean I think they're always going to be doing that but the point is, the work that we're doing as a group, right brings in assistance from other companies, right. Companies will contribute to CNCF in the name of, you know, diversity, what have you. That kind of thing. So the more we give talks and speeches and the more we show up. Again, I want that's key, more that we show up in our visible. And what makes us show up is having great interpreters and resources with us at that time when we're there on and off, you know, conference hours if you will, before, during and after conference hours. So we need to, again, get your expertise that some of you, you know, working with Kubernetes, maybe you're struggling with a particular issue document that issue, and then make a talk out of it. Right. I've given talks before about, you know, several times. I'm dot net with Kubernetes talks. There's a link. I'll have to find and I'll share that with you all as a group. Like I said with you Catherine so you can forward that out. Anyway, again, that's, that's another tactic. So tactic three, where social media, we can encourage, get the word out via social media about deaf and hard of hearing folks. But saying that we are here, we belong to the technical world, the technology world. And our disability may be hidden. Yeah, as we're walking down the street in the city, nobody would know that I'm deaf until you walk up to me and started talking to me or any deaf person, welcome to start talking to them. So we are here, we have a hidden disability and but we're everywhere. We're still finding deaf folks. Oh, I'm like, Oh, you work at that company. Oh, you work at that company. And there was one deaf person here that works at Netflix right and we have other deaf folks that work at Uber. Somebody else that works at Twitter at least used to work at Twitter and then was subsequently laid off. So we have a presence everywhere, you know, LinkedIn, many, many different companies, several deaf people have Microsoft, Amazon. So, again, we're not being recognized or noticed, if you will. And I want to change that. So again, it all comes down to giving more speaking opportunities, getting more FaceTime and video, things of that nature. Also wanted to develop some workgroup talks, right, with regard to talking about the work we've been doing all along. I think Catherine has documented, you know, she's made great notes and some great documentation. And I think that's a lot of great material to give talks, using that information to give talks, we could use that to make our own talks, and I would encourage you, all of you to seize the opportunity and do that. I don't want to be the one talking all the time I would love to share that with all of you. So that we all get that FaceTime. I know the Destiny is doing one which is absolutely fantastic. We'd like to see more of those in the coming years. We have CubeCon, CubeCrash. There are a myriad of data conferences, but certainly could add Kubernetes. We could talk, you know, about a myriad of things, anything data related. There's many kinds of conferences with regard to that, AWS. There's Kubernetes everywhere, and we should take the opportunity to talk about that. And, you know, give different kinds of talks. I have noticed that many conferences are interested in people talking about disabilities. Deaf or other disabilities and that space and how we survive in this space. People are very interested in learning about that and it's not just a technical aspect. It's about how we survive in the space, right? You don't have to be a technical pro to present at a conference and that's that's what I'm seeing over and over again. People are talking about women in the technology field. People are talking about POC in the technology field. So these are very, very popular topics to be talking about at conferences. It doesn't necessarily have to be C sharp or a job or anything of that nature. That's really cool. And then of course, if you want to come to CNCF conference, just let us know. Let Catherine know. And we can certainly forge you the application form and try to make it accessibility so that we have more deaf and hard of hearing folks that are visible at these conferences. I don't want to be invisible anymore. That's for sure, right? We don't want to be invisible. What are the strategies and different tactics that I'm working on right now? And I certainly would appreciate your help. Now that you've paused, this is Amy June. I want to echo some of those same sentiments. I am a public speaker by trade. I work in the open source community, but now I work for the Linux foundation. So it's a little bit less available for me. Hold on my phone. It's less available for me to travel because I don't have the funds that I used to when I had the privilege of working for red hat. But what I do at every conference is I'm very transparent with my needs in the open on social media or replying to all that I need accommodations, which opens up conversations to folks. I still go to after events and I make it very transparent that I'm uncomfortable and I'm leaving because I can't hear. So people are aware and then I find the next time I'm invited to speak or the next time that there's something. There's an accommodation there or more of an attempt for an accommodation. So being for lack of a better word vocal about what I need helps me the next time I attend an event. I don't talk about accessibility at every event. I talk about all sorts of different topics. But at the beginning I always ask, because I am hard of hearing, do people need anything for me, and I still use Google slides because they have captions, which are kind of captions, but they're better than nothing. But I alert the people that there's this option that you can use Google slides if the conference doesn't have captioning themselves. So those are a couple of the ways. I help like just bring the awareness of I'm never bitter or angry about it, you know, but I, I, I do not hide my disappointment that I can't attend an event because I can't hear. Thank you so much for that. David, did you want to say something. Actually, I was just going to note that and have a hand up, but I do want to kind of amplify the point that both she and Rob made about kind of, um, after I would accessibility like that post conference events, you know, the evening events, because I have gone to a number of tech conferences as well. And that's always been a problem. For a long time I just didn't have any accessibility for them at all. And I would be completely exhausted just from trying to focus and we'd love to support it ours. And at that point, it's just so stuff isn't happening. And I have, I have gotten a man thought by effectively bringing my own accessibility. Um, I have this Muslim microphone system now that let me get captioning into like to my phone or whatever. But still, it's annoying to have to do that labor all the time. Right. Excellent. Yeah, so what would make. So that would make you avoid going to a conference right in David. You're avoiding going to conferences because of accessibility issues right. And I can see where the funding. Right, we've always been, how should I say, behind when it comes to salaries, because we don't know how to ask people for increase right for we see our hearing peers. They're being promoted faster than we are. They're making more money than we are they're more assertive. So we tend to be much more careful because we want to keep our jobs to begin with right we don't want to be going to the job because we don't have great accommodations where we're currently working. So we're not job hopping and increasing our earning power by doing right we miss out on opportunities so we're behind on salaries, definitely hard of hearing, typically are behind when it comes to stop saying it's the same with minorities, for sure. There are certainly minorities going through the same exact situation so that's why it's great to see CNCF and AWS providing scholarships to be able to attend these conferences. Alex, would you want to say something. You're on mute possibly. Can you hear me now. Yeah. Sorry about that. I was just saying that I echo every everyone, but what everyone said before, but I also wanted to bring up one of the challenges I've been facing with conferences which is the, you know, the funding is obviously a big challenge, but the other challenge that I keep running into is the communication, even if funding is available I found that I often am required to do all the coordination for any of the accommodations myself. And that takes a lot of time and frankly doesn't really contribute to it takes away time from from my job, which I can't always afford to do. And so one of the things I look at when I'm trying to find conferences to attend or speak at is when conferences like strange loop or conferences that all the coordination is already done I can just show up. And I know that everything is already in place without having to explain what I need and explain all of the explain exactly how to do everything. Because yeah, it's always on us. I know how to something I've talked about with Ian before. I'm not sure if there's a good way to have sort of like a central life coordination arm, where, you know, maybe CNCF is the right place maybe it's not. But we can say, you know, hey, reach out to these guys they can coordinate all the accommodations that I need. And that kind of reduces the level of effort on my end for attending conferences. Just thinking out loud there. Hi. So, I think that's exactly what we're trying to do. And also to back up. I think it's great to hear all these stories and I don't know maybe I am naive. But my feeling is that a lot of these things do not exist or are so hard because people just don't know. Like they don't know how to be more welcoming how to make all these things available. At least that's the feeling that I got with my initial kind of interactions with the CNCF about this topic so we'll see. But I'm very, I mean, I'm very optimistic and I feel, and I hope that it is a matter of creating recommendations right like okay if you're a conference. These are the things that we believe you should offer. And then make this available so of course the first conferences that we're going to ask to do this right are CNCF conferences because we're a CNCF group but these all these artifacts that we're going to create are going to live online on a website and they're not only for the CNCF there for any conference, any employer any so we start creating all these recommendations and things of what are best practices if you want to be welcoming for the deaf and hard of hearing right and then. Yeah and just see like what is feasible what can be implemented and so on and hopefully, you know, the goal is that the CNCF kind of leads the way in that sense and then that that becomes the standard eventually so at least that's my hope. It's naive, I don't know but we'll see and find out at least we can. Right, and this is Rob. Yes, I think you're being naive because the first year right. Basically, we have to make it a habit of going to that same conference year in and year out. Right accessibility accommodations will get better and better after every time you attend. Right, we learn from the first year and the second year and so on and so forth. So, you know, AWS reinvented the accommodation right they was not very good I can say that you had to fight for accessibility accommodations and the second year is a little better. So I got a lot of feedback and every year became better and better. I became a data here on AWS exactly access to VIP parties and meeting VIPs within AWS. And then my interpreters couldn't get in the same room that I could get in because they didn't have the right access that I am. Finally, we're able to get the interpreter in so we learn as we go right it's never perfect the first time. So with CNCF in Chicago, right there will be a learning curve there. There will be some growing pains. As I said there will be a learning curve there and growing pains and it's again it's important to show up year in and year out and the accommodations will get better as a result of that. So, as much as like I echo that I don't always want to go to the same conference every year. So that's a challenge to as I find myself attending the same events because the accommodations are better and better at that same event. But I really want to go to Drupal con Asia, you know, but I, but, you know, I think you understand what I'm trying to say it's it's it's it's hard to to when you don't have that privilege. of sponsorship to do that year in and year out. I luckily have at least like sponsors for the tickets because I usually get a talk accepted. But I still have to do the hotels and the, you know, even like the accommodations for for for just getting to the venue is sometimes hard, you know, I'm physically disabled too. So I have multiple things against me when it comes to like feeling comfortable at conferences. Yeah, I'm sure it's not easy right and it's like it. Yeah, but I think in that sense what Rob was saying and I know it's like not best going always to the same conferences but it's also like how do we I'm not going to say force change but kind of encourage change right and I think like the importance of being a group and and and that's why I would like to have as many deaf and hard of hearing people in our channel so we can organize a bigger group because you can. It's much easier to make a case and say like hey CNCF we're going to have 15 deaf and hard of hearing people coming to this conference right like, so there is it's, you can create that's it's much more easier than saying like hey it's just me and then can you make all these accommodation and it's just that one person. There is much more motivation there right so I think I think what Rob was saying like I don't know it's it's not cheap and so on so whoever can come I think it's like being visible right now we're always going to try to have a talk right but like just walking around and seeing people signing or communicating and you know in a different way like people need to get used to see that people that need to see that you know deaf and hard of hearing people belong and then you know like people will start making those accommodations because they know that those are also people within the community right. So they're important and we need to be welcome and so thanks for that kind of emphasis. Rob, because I think that's really important as well. If we don't have anything I would pass it to john. I mean, there is like one resource I think you and some other people were working on I know that not a lot of progress because of vacations and so on but anything you wanted to say about that. Yeah. So one of the things that we're working on was guidance for people who in open source communities that run meetings that hold virtual meetings such as this one and provide them some level of guidance on how they can set up, prepare and coordinate the meetings to be most accessible as well as guidance for people who are deaf or hard of hearing, but are maybe new to joining meetings like this, and how they might want to set up their screens or have their computer organized or, you know, telling people about pinning different accessibility options in zoom or teams or different things like that so we right now we just have like a scratch document with a few of my ideas and I know that Ian has not got a chance yet but I know they have a pretty comprehensive set up over the years and had some guidance that they wanted to share. And so I guess I would say for everybody though, especially if you are deaf or hard of hearing and if you have advice that you would like other people to know about whether they're deaf or hard of hearing or not running the meetings or not. How can we get that guidance out to I think conceptually in my head. We could have a couple short like checklists, or one page reference documents, so that it'll be followed more completely and then we could kind of iterate on that, and share it more broadly and make it a standard resource. So at a lot of the CNCF meetings that I attend. There's a very standard, you know, this is a CNCF meeting we abide by the code of contact, etc etc. It'd be interesting to get accessibility, some sort of an accessibility reference towards the beginning of those meetings at the kickoff, or somehow included. And so I think the way to start is just putting this this reference guide together and getting getting feedback on it. Awesome. So I think that will be super helpful. A very good resource. Meeting notes. Well, but I'll throw a quick link in the chat in case anyone wants to look at it. Yeah, and that is for all resources like we know that different people are kind of leading and different particular resource but like the goal is for everyone to kind of chime in who has like something some ideas and so on like it's one person but then like it just put it in our Slack channel, ask for feedback because the more people look at it and as you mentioned on different people have different tactics that they may have identified that work very well so we want to make sure we capture that. Okay, and then other things that. Well, we have another areas that are kind of like, so basically the areas were broken down by the goals that we were trying to achieve right we're saying that we have these four goals. And then how do we achieve those and we do have three more but I think like for empowered deaf and hard of hearing to become more active members. Visible and active so we broke that down into two because that's very different right we want is like how do you make the cloud need of ecosystem more welcoming so people can participate it doesn't mean necessarily be visible at conferences talks it's like a little that that would be a step further so we wanted to kind of separate that because it will have different strategies. So we encourage and educate employers on hiring deaf and hard of hearing employees, we don't have a particular team yet, which is okay because we, we have lots of things to handle but that's like something that we have as well and. And then the other one is like build deaf and hard of hearing a deaf and hard of hearing in tech community network. So we can learn and support each other and that's like there is no team here either but I think that's going, it's a goal but a thing that will happen naturally, but it's just a good way it's a good thing for us to remember that it's not just creating those resources and so on it's also like helping each other, you know, like if you need advice if you want to like intact there are other people here in tech that have. There's also a deaf and hard of hearing so it's supposed to be this kind of supporting environment where people can just ask questions that are not necessarily necessarily related to the goals maybe that we as we have them stated here. And then I put like just real quick because it's like, I find that really important like and I call it collaboration best practices, because we are not working all at the same company so we don't really know when people are off and so on. Oh Rob saying something sorry. Rob you were saying something. Okay. Nope, go ahead. Thanks. So it's really helpful if you're gone. If you're gone, like on vacation or a few days, if you put and I know David did that which is super helpful like add a little palm tree on your status, like actually slack has that as an option it just helps so much because sometimes I may just be like Sacking, I don't know sacking James like and then he's like oh I was gone it's like. Okay, so it would have been nice to just know that he's not ignoring me so I find that very helpful I know that a lot of people do that and then the other thing is like when someone puts something in slack and you know, like a reaction sometimes because I have been working in different things a lot and I find it sometimes very frustrating when there's no feedback. So, just like a little thumbs up that you saw it or not like it's just really helpful. You know just telling people yet acknowledgement or, and I, it's not something that happened here so it's like I feel like our group is quite responsive but that's something in general that I find it's just kind of nice and I consider it and people sometimes don't do it, because it won't be mean of course but it's just like it just can sometimes feel a little like no one is paying attention. And then I have Rian on here. Yes, I can quickly speak to this. Sorry about camera off I've got internet choppiness. Can you hear me. Yes. Thank you. Okay. There was a lot of talk about being visible in the community and doing work in the community so I'm not so much about the initiatives but I'm coming around to offer work anybody that want to help please come around to contribute to strategy working group meetings, which is linked all the information there. And it is a working group specifically trying to onboard more people get more people involved in the work that we're doing. There's documents to be created and all sorts of things that help you learn your way about this around this tag and around governance and all sorts of other topics. I invite everybody that's looking for and have bandwidth for to pick up things to join us in those meetings. Is the tag working group the tools initiative. Tag. Okay, we speak a lot of abbreviations apologies we should do less of that attack is the stands for technical advisory group. So that is an insight that there is a lot of work how we empower projects to get contributors to join their projects projects. So, if you're interested in that type of work and I think they might be a lot of people in this community that specifically like to help on board more people that's a place to join us. Okay, great and we're already at the hour. So, there's always lots to talk and we never make it through the agenda, which is great because there's a lot of talking. But yeah, we can continue the conversation on slack. Thanks everyone for joining always great to see everyone and yeah let's get some stuff. Thank you.