 I'm Michael from DTCL. So what is that? DTCL actually is a company specialized in blockchain. So like blockchain is very vague, right? Are you specializing in a specific way to implement it? Yes, actually we specialize mostly for healthcare solutions. So we have like research in healthcare, we have like hospital directly for the patients in healthcare. So how is it possible to use blockchain with healthcare and why? Basically it's like we can use blockchain as like a replacement for cloud services in healthcare. The difference is it's not stored in the cloud, it's stored in a decentralized blockchain solution. So because patient data is sensitive? Yes. So people are scared to put it on Google Cloud or Amazon or what? Yeah, Google Cloud is very, it's really the service, the issue with that is like Google own your medical data afterwards. So basically they can sell it to anywhere they want. They own your data. With the blockchain solution actually it's owned by the patient. So basically anybody that wants to access the patient that needs to have the authorization from the patient. So how do you implement it? You just take some blockchain and you package it up? Yes. Or you did something specific about it? Basically we have built a blockchain operating system for the hospital. Operating system? Yeah, basically it's like allow the hospital to build their own application on top of their operation system because basically all hospitals have their own applications. And they don't want to have a new application just come from their company because that might not match their requirements. So we just build the operating system of blockchain which they can integrate any application for the hospital. Like for example data management for patients, they can integrate applications also for IoT, for pharma company research as well. So you're not doing cryptocurrency? No, we're not doing cryptocurrency at all. But you're taking as an Ethereum? Well because our technology is based on Ethereum sidechain. So basically we use Ethereum but we only use the private sidechain because it solves a lot of problems. Like for example latency is much much faster so we can have a lot of transactions per second compared to the public chain of Ethereum. So is that like to make a private what you call blockchain? Is that an easy thing to do in the industry? Is that like following some instructions and then you can do that? Yeah on Ethereum actually it's pretty simple so now there's a lot of developers doing sidechain on Ethereum for different applications. Healthcare is one of them. And how about making an OS on the blockchain? Is that a standard thing many people do or are you like revolutionizing something? Yeah OS is more like a specialty basically a lot of people will build like some small application on Ethereum but what we're doing is more sophisticated and we want to build a whole OS so like a lot of application can be built on top of it so people are basically they don't need to think about blockchain they just need to think about the application and we're taking care of all the blockchain architecture behind. So what does it mean to make an OS on the blockchain? It means like basically you have the application it's running like simultaneously in many nodes like for example in a hospital, in a server at a company or elsewhere and those people can use this architecture to build their application on top of it like any application can be built on top of it it's a bit like Windows, you have application on top of Windows right you have like a Windows page and you can have the application running on top of it and it's the same except that now your like OS is not on personal computers it's in the blockchain. Isn't it just like a network or why do you call it an OS? Well because we think like the OS is the more specific term for it it could be called also a platform but I think operating system is more relevant in this case because basically the whole architecture is there and people can build on top of it. So I've heard a lot about these cryptocurrencies and the ICOs but what other things are like good about the blockchain? Like what good things are people doing out there? Are there some very good examples of how people are using it nicely? I think like everywhere where there's a problem with data security blockchain can be a very good use and also the other place where it can be good use is auditing for example like at Walmart they have a blockchain solution right now for the auditing regarding the supply chain so basically they want to know where is the data come from using blockchain is much more safe and easy to audit But security can it all just be done on the server and they can be done as securely as the blockchain? How can you guarantee it's more secure when you do blockchain stuff compared to just like Amazon cloud? Yeah the problem is with Amazon cloud the cryptology the security is not really comparable to blockchain basically all cloud services they are centralized all the data are put together so basically it's an accurate breach data that can access to all the data But it's still encrypted and that encryption strength is similar to what's used in blockchain But Amazon encryption is like one encryption for a lot of data So basically like once their encryption is broken they have high-critical access to all the data Blockchain is different encryption for all block of data So like every patient in the hospital for example they have different encryption you cannot have the problem of mass leakage of data But don't these I mean I don't know exactly how they do all these cloud services and stuff But I would imagine that they have more security than just having one password for all of Amazon you know There's like I would guess every single customer is encrypting data that with their own kind of thing No they don't have the security for each user Basically when they store the data they store for everybody I'm encrypted I don't know if they always are encrypted because Amazon like every cloud service will have their own technology and own security But basically they're not splitting the security like for every encryption of every user But wouldn't it be easy for them to do that? No it's actually very complicated because then encryption different for each user then how can I access the data of each user very easily The only way to do that is on blockchain that's the blockchain base of technology Alright But I would guess that every application on these cloud services is like a separate kind of you know like a password or a separate kind of encryption system but maybe it's not Well actually the problem is like you have to have a lot of the application but the application will all start from the same database Basically they need to share the database and that's where I first want to attack Do you want to attack the database to get like credit card information or data information from people from users But on your network or your OS they're still like an admin access to the whole thing No, there's nothing like that Basically if the patient loses completely out of the password, the security we put in place for him and he cannot retrieve the data we cannot help him to retrieve the data It's lost So we have other solution to crash this issue but basically we don't own any data You don't own any data? Like the company managing the blockchain they don't own the data For example in the case of hospital the data is owned by the users, by the patients So they can share it with the doctor if they want Exactly But then the patient has to be alive and conscious and be able to remember a password They might write it on the paper There's other solution to like access the password for example we can use biometrics so maybe you cannot need to remember a password you use the biometrics with the eyes or the finger to encode the data It's kind of like same as password So what's the status of your company? How many people do you have colleagues? Well actually in pharmaceutical we already have like 26 pharmaceutical companies they join our alliance with us and we offer a blockchain solution and for hospital we already have like a TMUH in Taipei using our services So basically they're already patient using our blockchain services for the hospital 26 pharmaceutical companies Yes, that's right From all over the world? Mostly in Taipei There's one from France as well And then there's one hospital here in Taiwan who's starting to use to testing it right? So basically that's our pilot and that's the other hospital in Taiwan looking to join this year But what's next for you then? After that we hope to go more worldwide So like hospital we have already dialogue with like hospital in Thailand and Japan Japan there's a hospital very interested to join us this year as well And if this works it could be applied to more than just hospitals Right? Yeah, any hospital actually and not just hospitals like healthcare providers in general Everywhere where privacy is important I would guess it could be much more than just medic healthcare Yeah, it's not just healthcare of course like research in pharmaceutical like IP research for example it's a very big industry where like they want to protect their data they don't want people to know in general what the research is about and it is protected then that can be put on the blockchain as well Is there any way to DDoS the whole blockchain so nobody can use it that would be pretty bad, right? If somebody attacks like figures out where the servers are sends a lot of data and then they're like overloaded Yeah, actually for blockchain if somebody attacks your hardware data actually blockchain is the best solution for that because basically we work on with many nodes at the same time if one node is like the hardware is all broken the other nodes will automatically take over So basically for hospitals there's no like a failure of system like nothing is working anymore the doctor cannot access the patient's data with blockchain is many nodes so basically even if there's such shutdown like the hardware somewhere there's other will take over and they can continue seamlessly So are you based here in Taiwan? Yeah, I'm based in Taiwan so basically a company is from Taiwan it's called DTCO But how many people? Right now our team is like only 12 people 12? But what do they do? Are they engineers? Mostly engineers so far because we focus on the development of the application and we have a few people now who are doing business development in Japan and Thailand and in Taiwan as well And what's been your background? Are you the CEO? No, I'm not CEO What are you? I'm just a business development as well I work before in Adventex I was more used to industrial IT and I also work with hospitals before as well