 My name is Troy Dawson. I am the Apple Steering Committee Chair. I do work at Red Hat But that is not my job at Red Hat Although nowadays they actually allow me to do it during my time This is the state of Apple at the Nest Conference There's might be some duplication if you've been watching the state of Apple during the centos Centos dojos but since Some people are just here on for for door time. They don't come during the centos time This is going to be a history of what happened in the last year So there might be some duplication with what you heard in the centos, but there is still some new stuff And let's get started with the numbers or graphs Once again, thank you very much to Matt for his Velociraptor and the other one Bronnis sort the other one For the metrics they produce and also for the CPE team for letting these metrics be public So during the past year, we're going to look at basically The April 21st on we've had some pretty crazy numbers going But in general, we've been between four and four and a half millions Apple users that we know of I Forget to do the qualifications Velociraptor is based on unique IP addresses So if you're behind the net and you have 10 machines behind the net, they do not get counted on Velociraptorizer But Velociraptorizer does count as we see Apple five six seven eight nine So it's good for some things, but it's not always the most accurate Let's see how those break down This one is fun, so again, let's look at from April twenty twenty one on Apple seven has this really crazy spike we believe Amazon We believe this is Amazon related and We're not positive about that But it's sort of fun. We're not sure if those are really Apple seven machines or maybe Apple eight machines or rail eight based machines with Apple seven enabled So the other fun thing to look at on this graph is the centos There are the Apple eight things because we go steady up and then we get this nice fun drop and then it goes right back up We're gonna talk a little bit more about that that this corresponds with not necessarily the end of life of centosthenics But the one centosthenics eight was removed from the mirrors and that broke a lot of things The other fun thing about this and this is a milestone Apple nine is at twenty thousand three hundred and forty seven as of August 1st and That means we've finally passed Apple five Apple five is an eighteen thousand five hundred and it wasn't until August of this year the Apple nine finally passed Apple five So those of you hang on to Apple five or rail five Good luck is out of out of life Okay, so the other thing is called Brontosaurus subfire This is using the new DNF count me which is able to Tell what Not only well, it doesn't do too many things but it does tell you how long how old the machine is and The type of machine meaning what operating system it is running meaning as in like rail or sento stream We'll say a little bit more about that later Again If we look back to April this thing is wide enough we can look at the others. There's this crazy Apple eight when now one of the interesting things that it doesn't show up as much in this graph But it sort of does there's these five to twenty four weeks. Those are sort of the old and machines Suddenly comes up when the Sentos when things started recovering from the Sentos stream People started leaving their machines on longer instead of using and and my role I I Eat that word. It's really hard for me to pronounce Ephemeral means it's just been around for a day or two. These are usually like CI machines Throwing midway machines Sometimes the open shift or I should say container machines, but container machines actually usually last a week maybe a month But anyway, the infirmary all went down. Let's look at the next slide because that shows it better This isn't by numbers. This is my things than femoral went down and five to twenty four weeks went up It's sort of pretty cool Don't make the other one just to say say thing our spike. We got almost up to two million Apple eight machines So that was pretty cool like to say these numbers are different than the broths or raptors due to the IP addresses And here we have nine Nine starting to come up We see that this one is still pretty obvious the ephemeral Machines are the highest in nine people are still trying out the nine. They're doing tests They're doing all sorts of things, but there is still machines that have been running nine for more than 25 weeks Even though nine has not rail nine has not been out for 29 weeks They've been using Apple for and if we do the stacked Again, the ephemeral is more than half of the Apple nine machines So who is using this? This is all of rel a sorry not ever Apple eight This particular graph if we do all of Apple eight Centos Linux despite not being around is Still though still the lead One thing I'm noticing is this drop-off in the past couple of weeks of Centos Linux eight This is my opinion. I believe it's dealing with Amazon switching to being fedora based And I believe a lot of these Centos Linux machines are really Amazon Linux. I could be wrong might not We see here that this past few months Rocky over path This past up Red Hat Enterprise Linux Cento stream is still doing pretty strong and there's Alma and Oracle Linux is still puttering around that's pretty good But let's look at them break down by ephemeral versus the others the ephemeral The Centos Linux just dropped and it never really recovered. So it looks like For whatever reason Centos Linux was Was being used for a lot of testing and we see here that Alma Rocky, I'm sorry Rocky has sort of taken up the slack of of our users and Yes, I wouldn't use relics and ephemeral thing, but some people do and then all the rest of them Alma Cento stream and even Oracle are all sort of In the same group there so then long-term releases We have All the long-term ones basically they have to be older than a week to be on this graph Centos Linux is still up. Again. We've got this drop-off Rocky Linux is actually coming up. We got these three clusters Rocky Linux Cento stream and Red Hat Enterprise Linux We're all clustered Give that a month or two And we'll see what happens, but all of them are actually on the up upswing Almo Linux Maybe not Oracle Linux So let's look at nine that was eight eight's fun to look at but nine is what I'm really interested in and nine It's Cento stream which actually makes a lot of sense Cento stream has been around the longest I'm not even sure how we got real red hat and price links. I guess people are testing that Internally. Oh, the beta was out in November. That's why red headed and price Linux Is there the beta was out? Alma Linux obviously went higher and because they were out first and then here comes Rocky and There's our little Oracle Linux Trimble in and long as Expected a lot of these for red headed and price for Apple nine are in Ephemeral, I will someday learn how to say that correctly And I'm not really gonna say too much on that but we expected that For those that aren't in Ephemeral Cento stream Alma has overtaken red headed and price Linux Okay, sorry, I should read chat so I'm looking at these I get thrown off so Cento stream for for nine is actually doing pretty good We'll see once a lot of businesses have tested nine out Embedding by nine one Those numbers as you can see Alma Linux and red headed and price Linux are on the uptick Rocky too, but not as much. Let's see set. Okay done with the graphs So those are graphs, they're always fun to do we do have one more graph. I like graphs but back to Apple and Apple seven Not really much to say about Apple seven except rail and Apple seven will go end of life on 2024 June to June 30th, 2024 Plan now start to Test him out eight or nine. I recommend going just straight to nine and Transitioning over what's next Apple eight Okay, so this has Apple eight does have a few things as we've mentioned before the Centos Linux eight Did affect the numbers, but it actually affected a little bit more at Centos Linux eight going away The biggest thing was mock and Mock specifically with Apple because the default Apple use Centos Linux eight There was lots of discussions and all sorts of Things in the end What we have is now there is no default Apple mock configuration, but there is a Alma plus Apple and Rocky plus Apple and the Centos stream plus Apple and Apple next and I don't think we have Oracle I'd have to double-check if somebody wants to Say say that in anyway that the Centos Linux going away did cause some disruptions So in the past year, we've also had rail 8.5 and 8.6 come out with their various Things that affected Apple not as much One of the other things that has happened in this past year. It's sort of behind the scenes But it did happen and it's been pretty nice is Internally rail has I Don't remember what what it's called. I don't oh Apple to rail. That's what it's called. I was gonna say I thought we had a thing Basically when rail creates a new Package for rail. This is from both eight and nine One of the first things they do is they check to see if it's an apple and if they do they now create a bugzilla and tag it on to our our release tracking and This has been very helpful It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen and it's been helpful We've been able to get a heads up usually about Four to five months before it's gonna happen before it releases So when the 8.5 and 8.6 came out, we knew ahead of time what packages we needed to remove and it was really nice But they don't say what repo this package being added to that is true It's happy being added at least to CRB Maybe upstream. I doubt it's ever going to be a base OS thing Another thing that happened in this past year was Apple 8 playground was decommissioned completely It was a nice It had its place, but it's no longer no longer needed Now this actually was happening right about last year, but I'm going to mention it again The new way of we can now ask for packages missing packages like those missing develop packages to go into CRB and Red Hat has allowed the maintainers of the packages To say yes or no whether they're going to put something in in CRB I think we've got about a 50% ratio About 50% have said yes about 25% have said no For one reason or another and about 25% have just Not done anything with the bikes Sorry about that. I Think that's it for Apple 8 Let's move on to one that has a lot more stuff that happened Apple 9 Sorry Gotta switch you here, too at last Lasting Apple 9 was something we were talking about Still debating about and it's here now one year later. I I don't want to brag but I Because it's not really me that did it that's why I Know I'm so excited. I think Apple 9 was one of the the best releases of Apple that we've had I Do want to back up and say one thing Last year we did talk about Apple next and because it was important for Apple 9 I'm going to do a little explaining about Apple next Specifically Apple 8 next Apple 9 next The Apple 8 next and the Apple 9 next are built off of Cento stream. They are not built off of rail They are not meant to be a standalone package. So if something They're meant to be things that are So Cento stream is supposed to be the next release. So like right now. What's on Cento stream is rail 9.1 and 8.7 and For Apple next it's supposed to be only those packages that are affected by that or I'm gonna say in case of big things like KDE where I really need a place to test everything Before it comes to the main thing It can be used for that For Apple 9 Apple 9 next played a big big role with that we set up Apple 9 next first and Got things going and we're using the the Cento stream 9 because Cento stream 9 was released way in events of rail 9 and in November we let people start building on an Apple my next and then we had this complicated thing and I don't remember who it was that that Said hey, let's just step back a minute. I think it was Miro to be honest And this is we got to think of a better way and so we all thought of a better way and we decided to do Apple 9 built off of Cento stream up until we Apple 9 0 breaks Cento stream went to Rail 9.1 at that point we froze Apple 9 and Built all the packages off of Apple 9 just sort of ignoring Apple 9 next and Then when Rail 9.0 was released we started building off of rail 9 and everything was still compatible Anyway, I'm not explained in a very well, but it went very good and hats off to everybody who who worked on that I'm gonna mention Carl George. I'm gonna mention Oh Nirik nirik whatever your real name is because right now I can't remember it and All the others that that helped put that stuff in place Kevin. Thank you Kevin Mohan All the others The all of those those of you who did packages Anyway, it was really smooth. It was great When rail 9 was released we had 2600 Source packages. I don't remember how many binary packages. Oh, sorry, but we had 2600 source packages when well rail 9 was released Oh Before I forget While we're on the actual Apple 9 because I got a couple other things fun on Apple 9 The rail the Apple steering committee and the Fedora rail range talked and We are not going to be doing Apple 9 modular There's both cheering and groanings at the same time, but One of the reasons rail angel is in there is because they're the ones I have to put it in place and they With the experience of Apple 8 Modular they just said we just can't do it. The benefit is not Doing not only the initial work, but the ongoing work Apple 8 modular is still having issues So, okay Shifting away from modularity Let's just put it over there. Let's let's look at something else with the Apple 9. This is this is my own graph I Didn't steal this from Carl or or Matt so this is the number of Apple packages over time and I Love this I made this graph because I wanted to look at something so when rail 9 was released We had 2617 and this is source RPMs. This is not binary RPMs This has gotten from Kochi history for those of you who might want to reproduce this So on day one of rail 9 we had 2610 on Day one of rel 8 we had zero in fact it took us a couple of months before Apple 8 I Was even able to build I'm not blaming anybody It It's just the way it was because rail wasn't people had to do things in their spare time But anyway, once we got going rail 8 took one year Basically a year to get to 2,600 packages. So rail 9 was a whole year is a whole year ahead of not real man Apple To too many four-letter acronyms Apple 9 is a whole year ahead of Apple 8 Now if we go back to Apple 7 Apple 7 actually was started on beta and Apple 7 actually had like 15 packages on Day 0 when rail 7 was done, but it took them 18 months basically a year and a half To get to 2,600 packages Yes, somebody noted that 9 is much more aggressively going straight up and that is true I I was gonna Layer the model on top of each other, but it just didn't look good 9 does have a steeper slope We are actually expecting 9 to catch up to 8 I'm gonna say it's not I happen to like rail 9 and I won't go into into that at least not during the first official part But yeah 9 has a steeper slope we expect it to catch up to 8 and possibly overtake it so I Just threw this one in because I just love it. So this is some of the The things that are already in 9 Obviously, I put the desktops in you know me. I like my desktops mates in Katie's in of course Lumina it was in I that sort of surprised me. I 3 is in and Everybody's favorite Atari 800 the Atari 800 emulator is in Apple 9 So it's just hats off to everybody I'm just so excited that the Apple 9 has taken off and it's it's doing good one of the things I started Well, I'm gonna say the Apple people started tracking was how many maintainers we have and It's sort of interesting that Both Apple 7 and Apple 8 It's pretty much 10 packages per maintainer and so The more maintainers we get It sort of correlates with the more packages we get Now Apple 9 when the when I first started tracking this back in February Let's see We had a ratio of 13.5 But things have started to level out. So now Apple 9 is trending towards the 10.0 per source package 10.0 source packages per maintainers. So Those of you who are maintainers. Thank you very much You do a lot for Apple and not only Apple the Apple community Let's see over now again, this is the past year Let's go to that one So in the past year, I know a lot of you have already seen this and know about it But this is another one of the big fundamental things that happen. We shifted from the fedora wiki to fedora docs One of the biggest things this is allowed us to do is to pull requests for documents and And track those things for the wiki Whoever wrote this stuff on the wiki. Thank you very much but wiki sometimes just Has limitations Having things in docs able being doing it being able to do the pull requests has allowed us to do things Like well, some people are able to do very simple pull requests and contributions Another thing that's been able to do is Allowed us to have discussions on policy. So Someone says I want to change the policy will write up what it is in the Google doc And then we can have discussion on that. It was something in the wiki. We weren't able to do So it's been able to do that and also It looks better than the wiki Just the layout there is a couple of Documentation pages that have helped a lot one of them I put here and I Didn't put it here because I wrote it. I put it here because Carol always tells me it's the most used Apple page ever Apple package request and I don't think it's the most used Carl says that Carlos edit also editing and set up change the The how do you use Apple? I Think his is the best One of the others is that we also have the Apple policy for missing sub packages I think is the the fourth most used one anyway The doc's got switched over it's doing really good Red Hat and Apple now this was actually in last year's Last year's we talked about how red hat had publicly stated That they were going to try and make Apple a first-class citizen and during this past year they have they have started doing that The first and full mark for The best thing is that they have hired two people on the CPE team Specifically for Apple now they are not to be Packagers both of them do maintain some packages, but that is not their job Their job is to work with infrastructure and getting those things worked out Because as I said before it was People's spare times and if people always had fires that they're fighting in CPE they couldn't set up the Apple infrastructure the other thing which we've talked about it is You're able to request things into CRB missing develop packages and That has again, I think that's helped with the spike in in Apple mind making a slope steeper a third thing is And this is just recent. I haven't seen it actually in action if Something is in CRB and You feel that it needs to be an upstream, you know, it's not a develop package So you feel it needs to be an upstream you can request that An example is popular Qt one of the main reasons We have to enable CRB if you're going to do KDE is for popular Qt I have requested that they've said it's going to happen We'll see whenever that happens And my most personal thing is We can now work on Apple during work on our free time if we want and put it on our status reports I I do Apple in my free time, but I wasn't able to do that in status ports and now now I am it goes up They actually see that hey people are actually working That's an internal thing people externally probably Might not care but to me that was a big thing Okay I'm throwing this up here because I'm the main KDE maintainer in Apple Back in this 2021 we're on plasma 5.18 Right now for apple 8 and 9 we're at plasma 5.23 and when Rail 8 and apple if you're using cento stream 8 and 9 We've updated to plasma 5 24 as well as the other things and those will go out with rail 8 7 and 9.1 Hey, I wanted to put that somewhere so it's here on this slide um Some of you might have seen this around we have an apple survey. Um This is I wanted to survey because We I was wondering where of our where our contributors where our users mainly think Um Hey Kevin. Yes, we gave you praise because you did a good job with Getting up on line out Kevin um This isn't a big survey, but we're trying to find out are people using that for personal use work use both When if you're a contributor, are you doing? personal use are you Work use are both And then a few other questions. It's not big Um But we'd really appreciate you doing that this the results will be public I don't know if we have Uh, there's one or two freeform boxes um Very much like the fedora thing We'll have to moderate those boxes um But majority of the stuff that isn't in freeform we will have this all public And I would love to give you back badges We've tried doing badges and Hey, we got fedora people here Get our apple badges through they they get stuck um Anyway, uh do the survey it will be open all of uh august So if you see it at if at dev conf or the next cento stojo, this will be there Okay, next one The future This is really the reason you all came right no I think a lot of you know what the future is the first first thing in the future is we're looking at apple 10 Uh We really are i'm actually part of the team that's looking at rail 10 and so We're looking at it We we're hoping we can do something very similar to apple nine Build it off of cento stream uh We don't think we'll be opening it up at at least until 10 beta because Before the beta there's so much churn On the on the rail 10 in the cento stream 10 the building off of it is just Not really a good thing um But that's for future discussions But by next year we'll probably have some policy probably have talked about it Another thing and this has been going on recently in The apple steering committee meetings is the Uh sort of a new retiring packages procedure I mean we sort of know that you know if If you have cv's and you just can't maintain it anymore. This is mainly apple seven things. Um You should announce it and things like that and we're working on that but I think the biggest one is um If Let's say you you're changed jobs or you're no longer interested in this little thing In apple you actually can retire it But we would really like you to send out an email And we'd like to get something going very similar to uh fedora's orphanine so that So that we have a list of hey, here's these packages that people are no longer interested in maintaining We're we're having discussions on that and look for an email soon So Uh So that we can have a Better discussion on that. Anyway, that is something that's going to be happening in the future. That's not sexy or Shiny or anything like that, but sometimes the dull things have to be talked about Um beyond that Things are fairly stable right now. So I don't really have too much for the future So let's move to Question and answers um at this point I'm probably going to uh I wasn't meaning to point finger at you max But uh if you want i'll send it i'm gonna If you want if you're on the committee and want to to join here and Oh, we do have some questions and answers I don't know how You join Or if you can't then I apologize This is a fedora apple badge. Actually, there is some fedora apple badges I was just looking at badges. Oh, I closed my tabs um It's called corporate shield Just like fedora badges. You've built one fedora and then 20 or whatever There is there is some badges for building on on Apple packages. I just noticed jonathan w. Uh, I cannot remember what your last name is He has He has an apple badge. He just got Got one So is there a fedora apple badge? Yes, but we'd like to see more we'd like to do like the apple survey We'd like to be uh, hey, you're a member of the committee And and various things like that And we've we've tried doing some and they're stalled Sorry, I I just realized I answered the The top one first let's go to the bottom one Do you see chances to put response decision times on red hat side when requesting the package for crb Some red hat bugzillas for crb chris was just not answered on red hat side for a long time take about months Yep, um Other than pinking we really can't uh We've talked to management about this and They are of the assumption that The maintainers Know what about their bugzillas And if they choose to ignore it that means they're busy That's what i've been told so the answer to that one unfortunately is going to be no Now if it's been a year or something if it if it was over a year They might have Because before The new policy was in place Anytime one of those things came up the answer was automatically no unless you Did some really arm twisting So if it's more than a year old then I would say close it and reopen a new one But uh if it's like within six months Pinging is about all I can say we've been told not to To uh harass the maintainers Um But uh many of them like I said about 50 percent Are good, but about 25 percent are like that. They have not been answering So And I have been the couple for a couple people but That's how I know I've been told about the harassing containers Uh when I know so long Um URL on your slides are there any plans to use apple apple i o short more active? Uh, I had no idea about the apple i o Sure sure. Yeah Um I didn't know there wasn't apple i o That sounds great So the answer is yes Yes, there will be thank you for letting us know robert Uh And when I went over there, oh there it is proper shield drone than overlord so Python maintenance always put oh, yeah Some people are always responsive and some people are not So I I actually got a response from the criminal people The response was we're busy I did get a response it is much better than getting Uh Nothing then Yeah Any other questions here? I wish we could just sort of make the the last half of this Like the social So the people can just Pop in and and say hey I don't know how to do that Okay, I'm not seeing any more questions or chats Are you all? Uh Okay with me closing up and we'll go I don't know what else is going on Um, there's the the follow-up the The final thing are we ready for that? Okay, well, thank you all Um once again, I want to think I'm I'm the committee chair, but That doesn't mean I do all the work you all do all the work you saw the numbers there's the at least with apple mind There's 218 Maintainers right there. I want to thank you all all the 400 from from apple eight all the 700 from from apple 10 Thank you all I think you our users. Thank you and I bet a company or two. Thanks you too I know I can't say it on behalf of red hat, but I'm pretty sure that they thank you for for your contribution So we'll talk to you all Next year if not earlier Uh at the centos dojos Oh, where can you buy texture? I don't want to do a plug for this, but uh casual penguins.com. Um, and they're not available yet I'm almost done sewing them So I hate saying that but on official things But uh, they're coming