 Environmentalism fundamentally has to be motivated by love, love of life, love of this earth, love of not just the Amazon but of like the forest behind your house, of the place where you grew up, of the animals that you interact with, not because they have some instrumental utility and that we should navigate according to some complicated self-interest calculation. That's not why we're here. As human beings, we're not here to maximize our rational self-interest. I think it is actually motivated by love, but the rhetoric is about fear. The rhetoric is about force. It's about, for example, let's pressure and force people to change. Let's force the corporations to change. I'm not saying that we should just always ask nicely for change, but we have to understand that pretty much every human being on some level cares about this world and cares about the beings on it, not because of some threat to themselves, to their profits, and so forth. Environmentalism has to return to that.