 So, hi, good afternoon everyone. We are joining this, we are starting this webinar very shortly. We are good to start Rahul. So, hello and welcome everyone to the first virtual conference on Private Label and OEM Opportunity by IndianRetailer.com powered by Unbrand Asia, Knowledge Partner Daemon in association with Franchise India and India Licensing Export 2020. Today's discussion will revolve around Private Label Opportunity amidst and post COVID-19. I'm Rahul Khurana from Unbrand Asia and I'll be hosting this webinar. The agenda to be discussed during this session is amidst these unprecedented circumstances going to the normal coronavirus outbreak and the ongoing economic downturn, we are going to find answers to the opportunities that may crop up in Private Label and contract manufacturing space. Let me start by laying out the ground rules for all attendees. The discussion will go on for approximately 90 minutes. We have a welcome address keynote followed by a panel discussion. Each session will be followed by a Q&A session. If you have any questions during the course of the session, you can post them through the Q&A option at the bottom of your screen. Mention in your question if it is directed at any specific panelists. We will take up questions, post the first keynote and after the panel discussion. Please participate in poll during the webinar. We would also like to request the attendees to keep the question within the scope of the discussion today and not pitch their business. Let me now invite Mr. Sachin Maria, President and Publisher at Frantise India and Entrepreneur Asia Pacific to deliver an opening address. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Maria, over to you. Mr. Maria, if you could unmute yourself. Sure. Thank you, Rahul. Thank you, Grafana everyone. And thank you, Anna, for taking time out for sharing the insights. Private Label and OEM opportunity is one of the key areas where we've received a lot of interest in last unfortunate 30, 35 days of lockdown and the COVID situation which we're all experiencing in this quarter. You know, so first of all, let's let me let me wish well for everyone here, you know, hope all of us are keeping safe and, you know, working in the conditions that we are in but most importantly keeping keeping ourselves socially distant. As far as the topic coming is concerned, we, we understand the opportunity which India holds today both from an organized retail or retailing at large, and the consumption opportunity which we, which we offer. And I think times like these actually are further making situation for a value market like India to look at great products at great price. And one of the key opportunities which we see at franchise India and on brand is to enable a lot of manufacturers, a lot of potential entrepreneurs to look at private label as a key opportunity. This would also create a huge consumption opportunity for new buyer to come in to experience great products. And we are very thankful to them on for taking this initiative with us to educate our community on best practices and know how on private label. At underneath here we are trying to sort of bridge this gap between between an entrepreneur who's seeking opportunity, and also a potential manufacturer who's, who's looking at new avenues for growth. I'm not an expert on this subject but I think one of the key questions that are that I seek from this panel today is how the India market would open up as an opportunity for for new products to be invented as well as distributed. And one of the key areas that I see as a as a as a key question which is coming up is that can India replace as a manufacturing up with with the China situation that we're all experiencing. Lastly, you know the consumption opportunity of India I still feel holds very few huge unlock opportunity and under on brand which which in itself indicates what we are referring to. We feel that this unlock opportunity could be very well discovered and eventually all stakeholders, the retailers, the manufacturers and the consumers stand to benefit from it. So I keep it short. Thank you much. Thank you, Mr. Maria. keynote speaker for the day is Miss Annie Revellett head of insights and innovation team on international. This session will be for approximately 15 minutes, followed by question and answers. I would now request Miss Annie Revellett to start the session over to Miss Annie. So, thank you very much. I'm going to fair my screen. If I can. I can. Okay. And I really like the way you pronounce my name. I mean, I like. Thank you very much for that in the morning. Good afternoon. Good morning to everybody. I'm really thrilled to take some time today to share with you. Damon perspective on the evolution of private brand globally and what we can see as the future of the industry which is really about moving from being imitators to innovators. As we all know, private brand is part of the industry that is being that is best positioned to provide relevant solutions to changing consumer needs. Both with the physical store but also beyond and we see that the digital is growing and actually private one also has a role to play here. If managed properly actually private one can become a key strategic level for retailers and for manufacturers to drive differentiation and loyalty. This is what we've seen. Going throughout the years and that we keep on seeing happening. And so the goal for today is really to inspire new thinking on private brand and to make sure that it ensures a long term and sustainable course. Before we we start talking about private brand and figures. Let me share with you this this picture and share with you how what I see. I mean, we see an avocado we see a fake avocado. What I see as a private brand expert is a retailer that has been disrupting a really well established category. The future chocolate category is is a really traditional category. It's difficult to innovate it's difficult for consumers to get out of their comfort zone. And actually, this product that was launched by Waitrose in 2019 was quite a disruption. If we hear what the category manager was saying she said that she was inspired by the continued trend continues trend of all things that are avocado related and she wanted to create a fun addition to the Easter egg range. And that's really what innovation is about it's about looking at what you could bring more to your category. Think differently, look at what's happening. Yeah, in food, what are the key colors to bring something really exciting to your category and create a buzz and impact your consumers. And this really impacted consumers as what we know is that this Easter egg was actually the fastest setting Easter egg in the old Waitrose and partner's history. But definitely this didn't happen in one night and private brand has been on a long journey to get the level of affinity and credibility that it has today. And this evolution has been really driven by the constant focus by retailers and manufacturers on improving the quality and treating private brands as brands that adapt to the changing consumer needs and preferences. I mean private brand has been on the long way since the first one that were launched in the 19th century and sometime in the 70s. We started to see things changing retailers starting to internationalize have some more size to allow them to have their own brand but at that time we are talking about the generic brands. These even didn't carry a brand per se and they're really appeared on the basic and low involvement categories like paper goods or the canned foods. It has been evolving and today we see that many retailers do really recognize that private brand can be much more than a price alternative and can be the reason for consumers loyalty and for retailers differentiation. If we look at today and if we look at for instance simple choose. We don't really see a private brand nowadays we see a brand that was more than 2.3 billion dollars annually and that keeps on growing. And this is the reality of private brand today. This is what few are the few reach that stage and we foresee that majority will will reach it soon. Why am I saying that we've been analyzing at Damon and about 60 65 different markets from different countries from different retail maturity levels for us to understand exactly well. What are the different stages of private and there is no one private brand reality. No market is similar. There are different levels of maturity for private brand and different levels of reality for private brand and looking at all this data and also our experience in all these countries. We were able to build the five stages of private brands at the metaphor of the mountain is the one that best explains this journey. And so it starts with the base camp which is countries in which we have quite a low PV share below 3% and we see that PV here is really a copycat approach so we can think on the generic from the 70s 80s till the top which is where PV accounts for actually more than 40% of grocery sales. And here we see that private brand is really differentiating from national brand and even targeting specific consumer groups. Where is it mean this is good but it's always good also to put some countries to to see for instance where is India on this map and what we see is that India today is on the camp one together with countries like Brazil or South Korea. What does this mean this means that well retailers have already started to invest on private brand program and we see a new generation of shoppers that is emerging and that is willing to try new products. So normally at this stage this is the moment we start to see an evolution from copycat products to a good better invest strategy. Where retailers are also using it to push on price and quality to to target different consumer groups. Talking about India, well you know it's much better than than I do as you're based there and I'm based in Portugal. But if we analyze the markets and if we did we did in the market and what we can see is that what India is a really complex. And I would say an organized retail in the sense that it's not a modern trade markets and majority of the grocery sales are generated by non modern trade stores like the key harness and the specialist shops or the markets. And we see that modern retail is is is been starting to invest on the markets. Those struggling a little bit because it's not easy to change consumer habits. Even though the modern trader comes for around 2% of the grocery sales. So actually it's such a sizable market in terms of value that it's a huge opportunity and if we look at what's the forecast for India as a grocery market by 2024 it is forecasted to be the third major market after China and USA. So this is quite a major opportunity for modern retail grocery sales and modern retail sales should grow and and and sales as well. And when we talk about modern retail we cannot not talk about private brands that is a key driver for for growth. We expect it from the history and from the different countries experiences to actually play a big role in generating food falling stores as they are on the opportunity to win shoppers for retailers and also deliver high margin. And this is something that we start to see as we've seen that, for instance, a future group or reliance retail, but also brokers have been communicating recently on their plan to to invest on private brand in the future. When we talk about private when we cannot forget the consumer because the product is bought by a consumer. And if we look at who is the Indian consumer today. It's quite interesting to see that consumer is following a similar trend as in other countries, meaning that they are also embracing an LC and sustainable lifestyle. I've put here some some figures just for us to understand a little bit what we are talking about. And almost nine out of 10 Indian consumers are actually considering the plan based claim as as very appealing. This is actually the most important claim before vegetarian, the real alternative or sugar free. So we see that the plan based trend that is booming in the US and in Europe is also something that makes sense in the Indian markets. Also because we know and we'll talk a little bit more about the plan based afterwards, but it also relates a lot with the ethical behavior and the fact that Indian consumers are really looking to. They really consider that Essex and sustainable lifestyle are very important to their life. And they're also looking for having a next year. Life and and they consider that products play an important role in there. So if we connect this with with private brands. I would like to start by providing a key PI. That is quite important. So this is a study that we've run. I may surprise you, but when we look at different retailers and we look at their national brand assortments. What we've identified is that 98% of the national brand assortment across stores is the same. I mean this may sound like a really simple data points but if we think on the implications it's quite significant because this means that there is very little differentiation from one store to the other one. And so this is also where we see that private brand can step in and can serve that critical role in creating a true point of differentiation. And the good news is that well, not only is it an opportunity but consumers are giving retailers the permission to really innovate and live with with private brands. Damon run study in different countries from different stage maturity stages to understand what's the the shopper perception on private brand. And it's quite interesting to see that they consider that private brand quality is as good as national brand and that they buy them on nearly every shopping trip. And if we we see a similar consumer sentiment in really different parts of the world. So give you some idea, for instance in Germany, 72% of the show shoppers are saying that they shop at a store because of their private brands are in the UK. And they say that they buy private brands home every month. If the statistics differ from one country to another what we have to see is the big picture and to see that wherever we are in the world. We see that consumers are really ready for retailers to get more aggressive in pioneering and innovating with their private brands different stages but wherever we are we see that consumers are more and more trusting private brands seed as adding value, even they some say that a private brand fits their lifestyle and offers them the products they need if they are lactose intolerance you will find private brand products are in that need. And so this is this is a key and huge opportunity for private brand across the world. And definitely we see progressive retailers that are accepting this this challenge so you see here my my really favorite product of the moment which is the chocolate avocado from from from waitress but low gloss was quite outstanding as some time ago as they were the first one to launch a cricket flower under their private brand. Or you can think on Kroger that has been really innovating in flavors and in sensory experiences or Walmart with a plant based in Caroline and we have many, many different examples showing that retailers are really trying to differentiate not only from their retailer competitors but also from national brands. And this brings me to the differentiation and where where we sit and where we want to sit as a retailer. So if we start by it always starts by taking a critical look at the private brand program and identifying where you are today from an innovation standpoint, and where you want to be and set stretch goals to get there. So to illustrate this a little bit. I'm taking the example of the most category from low blows. And we see that it really starts with the basics, having those core products that are really alternative to national brand we can talk of the original almost, or in the case of Canada organic is also an expected product for private brand on this category. But as you get more committed to innovation, you start to fast follow the national brands innovation with new flavors new format new packaging. And for instance here we see that low blows beyond the original and the organic has been developed in for instance a red pepper cheap lot or a single serve. That you can take on the go to serve the need of always on the go needs, but it doesn't stop here and what's low blows has been doing here is really leading the market and dry driving innovation beyond the national brand to lead the category development. If we think on the example of the Easter egg from Waitrose. This is quite a similar thing. They looked at what's happening in the fresh what's happening what's trendy what consumers are looking for, and they decided to launch a sliceable almost roll on. They also saw that grains are really trendy that beyond chickpea you can have other grains that could be appealing for this category. And so they developed, for instance, a lentil almost. And this is really where private brands is no longer a follower, even even if we're talking of following innovative national brands, it's where private brand is actually setting the stage and becoming the new the new benchmark. And for that it requires to follow the consumer to understand what consumer is shocking how he's behaving beyond the category and not considering that competitors or national brother than other private brands are your competitors. But actually not considering any competitors looking at what they have to see what you could add to there. But I mean the reality is that we have few retailers that are that are there, but not everybody is there yet it will take some time. And, I mean, we see that the gap between what we call the best in class private brand retailers between the with the average retailers is really widening with, for instance, to greater to two times greater assortment differentiation on added value products, more items launched and faster growth rate for these retailers. So we see the benefit of going for innovation we see it has an impact on loyalty and on sales. We are at the beginning of it. And so now it's time for for retailers to really see who they are, what they want to be and draft the roadmap to go there. But if you want to, what we see with all these retailers is that if they want to disrupt if they want to lead with innovation they really have to focus on what's next and what's next in innovation. And the three key areas that we can see are the plant centric, which is becoming the new organic and I will quickly go through it as there is a lot to say, the fit for functionality and the connectivity through the 360 industry experience. So when we talk about the plant centric what we can see is that what started as a food trend and a diet for some as is quickly becoming the modern day lifestyle. And we see that this is really following the footsteps of organic that's why we are talking about organic. And we see that the consumers that are seeking elsewhere products but also cleaner products for the environment and that are trying to lower the impact on the on the planet are really looking for for solutions and it was complicated sometimes ago, but it seems that this is really the plant centric is really becoming a solution to it. There are two ways to address it one is to the plant forward solution I will go really fast which is basically about not the product not being only a plant centric product but the plants as some benefits we know that the ancient great we we heard a lot about the plant centric and actually this is now capitalizing on these super food and this aspect of the product, so that it's not only that it's meat free, but it's also beneficial to your health. And the other thing is the echo formulation which is where we can start here to talk about, for instance the circular economy, and the fact that it a product doesn't stops on the chef and you can actually give an afterlife with. And we see that, I mean retailers are really starting to play out on this and I put here some few examples, low blows, for instance with a vegan cheesecake, but it's not only about food and actually the plant based started with non food. Or you have this example with CVS with a plant based sleep supports or casino that launched sincere brands, they were they had to comply to a new legislation in the EU about disposable materials and rather than just substituting the standards by a company solutions, they created a new brands and extended to other categories like for instance textile and home textile and fashion textile. So they really embraced it and communicated and made it made a strong statement on it. So what about the fit for functionality. Well, it's about the redefinition of functionality functionality has always been here but we see now it a little bit evolving. We have majority of us have a really complicated and dynamic life. So we have many things to do we cannot even finish to do everything in a day and on the top of that we want to have an AC life so it's not easy and we see that consumers are really seeking for solutions that serve that serve that purpose and make their life easier. But it's really about the peak performance meaning that it's the right product for specific need I want an energy boost or I want to rest I want to feel cool, we will have solutions for all that. And the other thing is the simplified delivery system which is what making it available at any time. Once again, we definitely see retailers that are taking that step and we see, for instance, low blows with the freeze dried smooth emails which are frozen. It's easier to do it's LC it's, it's yummy. It's, it serves the needs are little with the energy and endurance bars that are really about searching for boost at a certain moment so it's no longer a snack bar it's really energy and endurance. And the last are the Amazon milk it's that are really about facilitating the cooking experience at home with everything prepared just need to assemble at home and do the magic. They strongly believe in it and we can that's why, for instance, we see that these milk it's are even now in the in their stores. And the last, last key trend that we see for for for innovating is really about the sensory experience. We see that consumers are really looking for dynamic and immersive product experiences, which are, of course, also an impact of the technology of technology and social media. So here we can tap into dynamic pairings, leveraging new collaborations between sense and taste, for instance, or the experience experience with the packaging of our packaging or what we call the fashion of consumables and giving a new appeal to consumable products. Some some iconic examples here will be, for instance, the Walmart unicorn sparkle ice cream, where this is really about the visual experience it's it's it's really blending the taste experience with the visual experience. You also have this interesting product from little, which are street food pancake burgers and here the packaging plays a really important role in telling the story of the street food. Of course you have the product per se that that is interesting and that is disruptive, but the packaging of the product, the story of the product also adds a lot there and more on the on the taste and on the on the fusion it's this combination between Paris Lamb, Kafka and the ticket chips that that is quite interesting and we see that even a category like chips that's difficult to innovate is trying to push the boundaries a little bit and go for unexpected combinations. So summarize all. What does it requires from a perspective to build a successful private brand. Well, the first thing is that you need to define a career and private brand strategy and you need to know what is going to be the role of private brands where you want to innovate. You also need to know your consumer and the market strengths because this is what will allow you to be powerful in innovation need to have a focus on consistent quality and new product development process. We know that quality across categories is critical for private brands this is a key differentiation point with national brands that are most of the time focused on one category. The branding and design is also really important for consumers to understand the brands. For instance, this little product with the street food tells you all the story of what of the experience you're going to have. And of course, the story experience is really important for consumers because if retailers are selling products they're selling products in a store or in a digital store and the experience is really important. All these requires a lot of different competencies. And so it's important to have the right partners to build a successful private brand program from the supplier and to the partners. And that's that's about it. Thank you very much. Thank you, Anna. Now we will enable the audio of some of the participants whose questions have been shortlisted and they will go first. If you have more time, we will take up more questions. So first to begin with the Susanta Bhattacharya, I will enable your audio please ask your questions to Anna. Hi, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Yeah, and it was excellent. It's nice to hear from someone from the consumer insight and consumer centricity side of the story. Excellent. And I have, I'll just give you a very brief background if time permits two minutes. So, you know, during 2009 and 10, I used to work in a private level environment in India, as I know, Sourcing Manager. At the time, the private level strategy was basically, you know, I'll go faster, basically take the top three products in a product line, the best, the medium one and the common product. Then choose the biggest pie in that market in that segment, and then, you know, take that as a benchmark and try to, you know, imitate as per your packaging as per your look and feel to look like that product, you know, and try to stay into that, you know, that layer of the product. Now, as you say, after a lot of, you know, consumer innovation and consumer centricity has come in now, as we can see people like you are advocating this. Now, how whom do we, you know, take benchmark as because when I see your entire, you know, value chain, we need a complete, you know, experience, store experience, then pairing and experience. Now, as a private level owner, probably will not be able to get so much of consumer insight because it's expensive to start with, how do we do, you know, what is the initial penetration strategy for a person like me who is trying to start, you know, private business to support to the modern trade or to the, you know, standard, standard grocery chains. Whom do we follow because it's a huge market. What is the best Apple? What is the best, you know, pie to cats? That's a really good question. Well, first retailers have a lot of information. I think they know even more on consumers than actually brands because they are the ones selling. So they know their consumers quite well or they have all the information to know their consumers. And from that moment on, once they know that, when they know what they shop and once they know who they want to be, which is really important in this case. It's not only about who you are right now, but it's about your strategy and your plan. I guess the benchmarks and what you're going to look at will come naturally. And that's something we always do when we work with a retailer and we set is a private brand strategy. Naturally, having discussions with them, we are able to identify who we can, it's not about following, it's really about getting inspired because its retailer is having a different reality. And so this will come naturally, but they have a lot of information with them. They have to save data that brands struggle to get from time to time. So looking at this, setting the right private brand strategy, it normally comes not easily, but it comes. It's a lot of discussions, a lot of brainstorming. It's a lot of alignments to know really what is going to be the role of the retailer and what is going to be the role of the private brand. And then this comes normally quite fast. Yeah, makes sense. So it's more about like engagement with the retailer would be the right strategy. Yeah, it always starts with the strategy. If there's no strategy, it doesn't mean there's no, it doesn't mean that there is no private brands. But we cannot talk about brands. We are really talking about generic solutions to shoppers. Thank you. Any other questions? Yes, so I will take Akshay Mangal's question. Akshay, good to go. Hi, and can you hear me? Yeah, I can. Yeah, so I had this question basically, so I, like whatever little experience I have of the Indian market is that Indian buyers are very value conscious, like they price sensitive. Now, I have had this dilemma that suppose there is a established brand, not if you try and imitate the product, you may not be very cheap, like you may get a five 7% cheaper, probably 8% cheaper than the established brand. And if you differentiate or you don't try to innovate or add some more features to your product, then your product becomes expensive. And it is very hard to convince people to buy your product or the established brand. How do you break this dilemma? That's not really my area of expertise to be honest with you as I'm much more on the trends and innovation and the execution and the pricing. So, can you repeat so that I get all the elements? Like suppose there is a established brand, can you hear me? Yes. Yeah, there's a established brand and if you try to imitate that product, like you want to do the same product and you do it a little cheaper because there aren't many, a lot of margins. So probably you'll end up being cheaper by five 7%, 8%, max 10%, you can't really be cheaper than that, otherwise the quality will be too low. People will get strict with the established brand and if you differentiate your product and try and add some new features or you know, do some innovation in that, then your product tends to go a little more expensive. And it's very hard to sell that product in the market where there's already established better cheaper than so it kind of become a circular dilemma that how do you sort this out? That's a good question. Well, it's never about one isolated product, it's about a mix and less innovation is part of your DNA and shoppers come to your store because they know that you will have innovative products. It's really about the mix of products and having these products that are really about competing on price and these other products that are really about serving a specific consumer need. So once again, it comes back to the retailer strategy. If the retailer has the objective of innovating on certain aspects and serving a specific consumer needs, it should come naturally. But it's really also about the mix of the products and some products will have to be price aggressive to allow some other products to be less price aggressive. Max, does it answer your question? Yes, I lost him. Hello. Yes, I should. Yeah, so it got a little bit, it does answer but again like you know the point really comes on to like it all actually ends up being at the hands of the retailer that how he wants to position your private brand or your product. So does the private brand has a hold in how they want to position themselves at the retailer through social media and stuff? Is that changing the way things work out? I can answer here. One, times really become very competitive when it comes to especially modern retail. So it's not just about the value of the price or the pricing, it's also about the differentiation in the product one. I think retailers are today becoming very innovative in co-partnering with you, how you promote so in markets like what NA actually operates in which is one, you know, you're in markets, you really see a lot of experiential opportunity coming to young brands and private brands. So it's all about the right product and the right retail strategy which will get you out of the way and I think a differential which you're referring to about 5 to 7% is actually a fairly good number to start with if you have a strong product I would say. And yes, absolutely. I think we've got a next panel which is opening up. You'll have great discussions on that where you would see how retailers are partnering with some innovative product folks and doing some very interesting work from a consumer standpoint. Thank you. Time for maybe one last question. Yes, Shubham, go ahead. Hello, hi. So basically my question is around private brands comes from retailers who have their established supply chain networks and maybe marketing side everything is already sorted in people know about them. Let's say if there has to be a startup in consumer goods, which has no history or recall. How are they placed globally if you have any insights for that as well. Well, this will always depend on the category, the market, the consumer you're targeting. So it always, I always give the same answer. I'm sorry, it always starts with the strategy. Because you can actually start with a private brand and if we think on, if you think on retailers like Aussie and little I don't know if you're really familiar with them. But these are almost exclusive retailers on private brands to the national brand place there more of a complimentary offer than the national brand. So on the confidential side, we always believe that private brand is a compliment to national brand, but it doesn't mean it has to be. And it's it's really about about your strategy and once the strategy is defined. You can you can have from the beginning a strong private brand offer you have to understand. Once again, if you want to be what are your key strengths where you want to be known for and this is where you can start with private brand, but it doesn't have to be an evolution of national brand. We have many retailers that are successful with a strong private brand program from the beginning. So, thank you very much and we'll move to the. So thank you for a very, very insightful session. All had great learning from you, your entire global perspective, you know and put and the local perspective as well. So thank you very much once again. With this, I would now like to swap you know I would like I would now like to introduce the next panel and which will be for 45 minutes. So, so I believe all the participants have joined. So can all the panelists enable their video and audio. All it has been stopped by host. Yeah, I'll just. Can you all now enable your video. I still can't. I still can't it says that the host is stopped it. One second. Are you going to fire or should we start running as such. No, I think. Yeah, we'll just start we'll just just give me a moment. Just. Yes. So sort of let me just introduce all of you, and then probably you can take over. So, the panelists for this session, we have Mr. Harsh Shwardhan Chauhan, who is the vice president marketing at Spencer's retail and omni channel. Miss Kenari Gosrani, who's an entrepreneur and strategist. A group. In actual. Agro food and beverages trigger foods. Miss Prakati Kapoor brand and business head private labels pepper fry.com. Director arrow pharma group. Saurabh Bora, senior director, own brands and one second. Saurabh Bora senior director own brands grofers and Ashutosh Taparia regional business head big basket.com. So Saurabh Bora will actually moderate this session. So over to Saurabh. Yes. It seems like it's got a habit of giving that the first task to simplest guy. Hello to everyone. I believe what and had the audience is we have increased that count by nine or 10 people. That's good for us. Okay, and I hope they stay put. That is one. And I have a very esteemed or a very young I would say very bubbly co-panelist with me from various sections of industry. There are entrepreneurs, there are professionals from food, non food, there are entrepreneurs from food, non food, personal care. There is a e-grosser. There is only channel in offline partner who is there on board. So it's a very, I would say I'm lucky that I'm having this kind of co-panelist with me. So I would request that each one of you if you want to give me a short introduction in your language although Rahul has already done your homework. Like we can start with Kinari. What is good about you? Kinari is on mute, I think. Yes, I'm sorry. Can you hear me now? Yeah. I'm a third generation entrepreneur, I've taken the bait in from my grandfather and father and joined the family business, which is Gomagu. And which is into manufacturing process machines for dairy beverages, oil and gas and so on and so forth. And I'm also kind of taken this ahead. We've done a forward integration project because there we have set up our own plant. And that's a product I'm basically handling, which is into private label, co-packing and we have our own brand, which is called Strigger Foods. And yeah, we're into beverages, carbonated and non-carbonated. So not that short, but yeah, that's it. Kaurab, I think you're on mute. What do you? Me? Yeah. Yeah, hi. So I'm Prakati. I managed the private labels at PepperFright. So I've been associated with them for about five years now. And I'm a designer, but eventually moved on to the business and brand side of the private labels, which was very unknown to me in the beginning. But it's been a good journey and I'm looking forward to this session. Nice. So Prakati has been with, I believe, furniture, furnishing, et cetera, in her career. The offliner amongst us, Harsh. Hi, everybody. This is Harshurdhan Chauhan. I'm currently leading Spencer's Retail and Omnichannel alongside the Nature's Basketball portfolio as vice president for marketing and an Omnichannel. So prior to this, I'd been leading DNF shopping malls across the country as central head of marketing and digital transmission there. Prior to that was world and instrumental in building India's fifth biggest largest e-commerce company, Shopfuse.com, as director in the business there. And prior to that had been with Kodhrich, ITC, Accenture, and Rekit pre-feed during my career. Thanks, Harsh. Now the new team man, Mr. Alok. Good afternoon, everyone. We basically belong to a group called Aeropharma. It's been into contract manufacturing of personal care and cosmetics since 1985. Second generation, trying my best to kind of get into the world of private label and understanding and doing opportunities wherever OEM is more of a solution. So I hope this is going to be a great session. Thanks, Saurav, for hosting it and taking the time for doing this. There you go, master master. Mr. Taparia. Yeah, hi. Hello, everyone. Myself, Ashutosh Taparia. I work with BigBasket.com. I've been heading their business for Mumbai region since about three years. I joined BigBasket close to five years back. I launched what we were calling at that point of time as the BigBasket Express delivery business. And I took over from my boss as the business at around three years back. What's good about me is what, you know, Saurav asked earlier, right? Tell me what's good about you. I think I am extremely lucky and my luck passes on to the people who are around me. So this time also I'm lucky to be part of a company who is getting the opportunity to help in the tough COVID times. And I hope my luck keeps passing on to people. Great. Thank you, Ashutosh. And guys, this is Saurav and this is Saurav Dabohra. That's all I am. A simple trader, a retailer for 16 years. And good thing about me is I love humor and I love talking to people like you. Okay. And it will be English, Hindi, English. I hope everybody's comfortable, right? Perfect. So who wants to be on the firing line first? So it's going to be a Q&A, more of an interactive session. Of course, interactive sessions amongst five, six of us. And then it will be short, I believe. And then we all will come to you guys to get Roger, of course. Wait for us till that time. Yeah, so why her because I've been an offline for 15, five. Firstly, why her? I've been offline for like 14 odd years. After that, I'm in online, right? So, what do you think? How challenging is to acquire the customer using phone brands or challenger brands? Guys, I'll be using this challenger brand term quite often. Challenger brand are those which are mentioned like by somebody in the previous session, like regional brands or two brands will come in the market. So how difficult to acquire customers using retailer brand and challenger brand for an off-liner. So let me tell you my answer for this sort of would have been really different post pre-COVID times. I think the COVID times have given unprecedented learning, not just to private labels, challenger brands, manufacturers, but even to retailers across the board. I think and all owes to the massive shift that has happened into the consumer demographics per se. And there are four major drivers, which which I need to put forward. If you look through COVID times, the consumers have totally gone away from what is usually called the brand stickiness, which they used to have for a whole lot of products. In fact, their entire consumption cycle has moved towards more healthier immunity and hygiene kind of products across the board, whether it is staples, cleaning, personal care, FMCG, etc. They are more open to now trying out brands which are more functional and more specifically, which are more available and accessible to them in these times of needs. I think there have no be there has not been any better time for challenger brands or private brands to build a very robust business case across the country. And without quoting any examples per se. Let me tell you at Spencer's retail, we have been privy to a lot of brands regional ones and private labels who have done much better in terms of what we call as faster. And that's that's a six word code we have formulated at Spencer's retail to basically rate the response of brands in these times of needs. So specially brands who have been able to be very frugal in finance and do a turn in their supply chain have been very agile in thinking like, for example, bring out newer products which are more functional across the board. Private brands who have really spruced up this chain, which is the supply chain and people who have been very tactful in managing the workforce and talent management across the board while being within the ambit of regulatory and compliance. They have certainly given a big fight to the national biggest in the brands for you. So I think COVID times have brought in a newer level of personalization or relevance that the regional private challenger brands have built in into the consumer basket size now. And this phenomenon I believe will further go on. Consumers are right now not finicky about consuming a particular brand, but essentially the brands are more available and accessible and who are able to keep promise of trust and hygiene. Those simple trust promises are able to fair them. So I think the pre COVID times, anybody would have said that the way of building a private label essentially is gross margins, profitability and giving a very price competitive kind of scenario there to basically increase the penetration across the board. I think right now more important variables of relevance, trust and hygiene are coming into play. What you have opened a Pandora box here. Now Kinneri and Alok are going to increase their margins while negotiating with us. Absolutely, I think more than the margins, I think it's more from a consumer standpoint. Consumers in COVID times have been forgoing to a large extent to brands on account of pricing and margins. But what they really want is the brands to be available, the brands to solve for real consumer problems of supply chain. As consumers now are work from home and stay at home. I think it's the responsibility of brands, both national brands and private labels to reach out to the consumers. And hence we're seeing more innovative models of store step deliveries, which have not just been adopted by the earlier e-commerce players, but newer omni-channel players or private labels who are developing omni-channel reach to get a newer product penetration. So I think it's a whole lot of things and a newer gamut that has opened up for private labels now. Cool. So Ashutosh, it's more or less precisely its stock of sound these days, right? In both rooms and tele-calls and video calls, everywhere we are seeing that consumer is behaving this way, that way. There is a research somewhere I would have read that usually a consumer takes one third of the time in deciding a product online, then what he or she does offline. So on the product landing pages on an app or on web, how do you think, does your internal research shows that how a consumer interacts with private label? Is there any research finding around it? So very interesting sort of. I will take this five-year journey that I've had with BigBasket. So when we started, I launched Express and at that point of time, the space was actually crowded in terms of number of players, but most of them were small, right? So obviously you were there, but you know, we had local Baniya who's now no longer there. We have pepper fry, pepper, not pepper fry, sorry, pepper tap, zop now and so many. Frankly, I don't even remember. Suddenly, Prakati had a smile on her face. Obviously times have changed a bit. At that point of time, we used to have 72% of our traffic coming from web. And we used to, our entire value chain was built around web in terms of how we advertise, how we give sponsored ads and so on, right? Because web was the primary way of consumption. And then there was already a wave happening of people trying to move close to apps. And you know, with Jio coming in, it literally shoved the wave in. And now we literally, it's not, it's even worse. Now 82% of all our sales happen via app. So now website is hardly anything. Yeah, internet, right? And especially for things like me, right? Our products are more of general usage, monthly consumption, regular buying and so on, right? So people know what they want to buy. One good advantage was app made it much more accessible. It became easier to acquire customers. Very easy for people to order and so on. The so-called unattended baskets and left cards actually reduced. People started shopping more. Earlier people used to build their cards over a week. So they literally start shopping on Saturday and check out on Friday. Now nothing. People just travel back from their offices at 7pm, place an order till 8 o'clock and get a little bit tomorrow, right? So this, all these good things have happened by moving to an app. The biggest problem that has happened for us is the time taken. So on an average at that point of time, if I can share a number, 21 minutes was what it was taken to place one order on an average. Not that number is six and a half minutes. And even that number, if you guys think from your shopping behavior might actually look very high because we actually shop much faster. The only reason why this number goes up is people still build their cards over two or three sessions. So I add four products, then come back later and add four more products, especially for grocery. But from a 20 minutes to a six minutes, the time spent on the channel interacting itself has gone down. It has had a huge impact on our ABBs and ABQs specifically, right? The average quantities were going down, which is why we had to adopt an app strategy and trying to make it simpler. The product landing page, which they're talking about, people don't even go there, you know, most of them at least. So we had an interesting insight where, you know, Amazon were trying to, you know, go much more gung-ho on their groceries and they had things called product reviews and all which you and I initially we didn't have because everyone knows Ashidwa data, right? What would you rate Ashidwa data for? That was our logic. So we did not have that concept and suddenly obviously when we have large discussions, people have to sound smart, so I also have to give something. I say, let's have this, this bloopers have and this Amazon has, I don't have. So let's have this rating and all. And my founder said, let's just first evaluate who goes to that page. So there's obviously a search page. 62% of the shopping happens to the search page itself, right? So people search order come. Then people go to that at least search list. And obviously, you know, like the saying goes, if you want to hide a dead body, hide it on the second page of Google search, no one will go there, right? First page can't go Japanese. Similarly, when a product search also people buy from the search page, does everyone actually go to the product page was a thing which we said and only 6% actually went to the PD page. And so all the effort that we take, this guy made with aromatic compounds and whatever, it's nonsense, right? No one reset. People know that. And this was the biggest hindrance I feel was for a, say, a PL to come in and give that experience compared to a physical store where in the packaging can communicate that experience, right? So I think the question that you asked her sir was, is how difficult it is? Or does anyone come to online for private level? I'm saying answer is no. And we cannot build a business from private levels in online, but I'm saying how does it matter, right? It's not how much you can make a business from as much as how much can you sustain? And private levels are the future because they are the key cornerstone for having sustainability, right? They are the ones who will give us margin, will give us a differentiated products, will help us create niches, right? So for example, obviously me and you approach niches in a different manner. For example, you would say a price point niche is still a niche, right? And we create a product there. So same product at a different price point or a company price point is a niche and it's a lovely way to do, right? I might say that, you know, people have health snacks, people don't have say a ragi sticks, I will go to the ragi sticks, right? A branded ragi sticks and so on. So people will choose their niches and private level is the way to go. So private level will not bring you the business, but it will ensure that you stay in business. And right now, COVID time is the time to take it forward because I think somehow brands have been reduced to a commodity and by commodity, I'm not saying that all atta is the same, right? But obviously not all biscuits are the same, but within say bourbon, I might become more ambivalent towards trying a relatively unknown bourbon than a Britannia on the Parle Bourbon because of these times and trial brings customers. So if I can ensure people try my product, people will come back to me and private level trials have gone through the roof and I'm sure you also agree to that. And these are the best times to be here. Just ensure that we reach the customer and the world will take care of itself. Thanks Ashutosh for the second nail in our coffin. Alok and Kennery have been hearing it out. Very nice. So Harsh, back to you, very short. What is the expectation of a consumer from a private level product? Very precise. Is it price? Is it quality? Is it packaging? Is it convenience? Let me just simplify it for everybody. I think first and foremost is availability. One thing that most private brands lose on in the long term is ensuring that they not solve for the long term availability and consistent showcase on the shelves across the board. So if your private label is not on the shelf and if you don't show up, I think the private brands lose out on a major opportunity to create that long-term recall. I think availability stands first and more than the pricing, let me put quality first. I think COVID times have opened up an unprecedented opportunity where as Arsutosh has told and a lot of people within the business know, the trials have gone up massively especially for private brands. Consumers have been forgiving in the sense that they are no longer finicky about their choice basket. In fact, they've become more functional. And if a private brand apart from being available has been great on quality, I think then they are set for long term. So this is an up curve where the opportunity to increase the penetration of private labels has come in once in a lifetime. I must say that otherwise it would have been the regular price margin competition and the competition for seeing that can I have more shelf space to grow my business, but I think more than the shelf space, it's about the need space which private brands are right now solving. I think just put two together, availability and quality that's all for now. To everyone on my panel, to the sellers, to the retailers, to the sourcing guys. Okay, Prakati is a sourcing person I believe. We, private label guys, we often face a big challenge. I would expect Arsutosh to answer that. Because Arsutosh's internal stakeholders, the category managers, operations managers, marketing managers, how do these guys then perceive private label as, what is their respect for private label? Do they have any respect for private label or how is it? Frankly, in my company too, we have a separate chain which handles our private labels in terms of the category and the brands. And I clearly see that constant fight between him and the category person saying, who will eat your biscuit, Rs.75 per gram, good day. Answer, answer, answer. After that comes the consumer is the king. We need to ensure that the trials happen. The only thing that we can ensure is to give them the same platform and seem standing. And once we do that, remove the hindrances. After that, obviously the better product prevails. And we have also had people choose value. That value can be created by a lesser price for the same product or more quality or more perceived experience from the same price. That the customer can decide. And I think we should not try to deep dive in saying what the customer wants because frankly, I think customer doesn't know what he wants. Everyone wants separate things. I think we should give our offering, put it out there, be vulnerable. Okay. So it has been more towards food so far. Okay. We'll go to the most difficult category. Easiest category as far as private label is concerned. Prakriti can say yes or no. No. No. And probably I would say. And the most difficult part in current era and in futuristic era to source the product pertaining to private label. How does the market pie look like in furnishing or furniture as a segment, private label vis-a-vis branded segment? What is the share of private label in furnitures in India? So if I were to talk about private label and the rest of the market, I would kind of segregate it as organized and unorganized because what falls under private label today is something that can be termed as organized and the rest is all unorganized, which is about just organized just about 15% of the market. But it's growing like the popularity of the private growing people. So from what I understand, at least on pepper frack, we have an equal share of private versus the market places, which are again private labels, but smaller in scale, etc. So there is equal opportunity which stands for both private labels and the market place. The only difference being that the private labels have a very high chance of being found because they're being advertised or they're being marketed in a certain way. So their share is definitely going to increase over the coming period of time. Currently, it is much smaller in scale as compared to the unorganized markets. And I believe most of your sourcing would be happening from international market depending on private label. So what would be the share like? So our imports for private labels is just about 15%. The rest of it is sourced locally. Also the idea behind sourcing is also to source local as much as we can because there are, if you know that there are the duty structures from all the countries which are non-AFTRA, they're very high. So this becomes a challenge plus from countries like China and Brazil, etc., the volumes have to be really high. So that becomes a roadblock. So hence, we kind of promote taking in India and local sourcing more than procuring internationalists. So thanks to Prakati, I would say that at least my state has got a lot of entrepreneurs built up like Rajasthan. So modern day India is full of, every lane is flourishing with the products to be sold on pepper fry and urban ladder. Jodhpur actually happens to be one of the biggest exporters of solid literature and also for local supply. So, Alok has been dozing off. So let's go to him directly. Alok, what are you doing? Good morning. Good morning. So Alok, what is this maxima, maxima you have been talking about since last four or five months I've been hearing. What is it all about? How maxim is it maxima? So maxima solution is basically a firm which is focusing more on OEM, private label and also solution providing rather than a product. So our entire focus is mainly working on understanding the consumers and consumers for me is a B2B market. So it's more understanding the brands, whether they are online, offline startup brands. Luckily, we've been able to work with many brands in India who've been able to have the passion of understanding the market. They exactly knew what they want and thereafter they came to us with the idea. They just needed a hand holding in terms of putting that idea on a piece of paper and then from there after we took it further for them for that paper idea to be converted into an actual product and that's what maxima is all about. Is it Lechal? So who's your who's your oldest and the largest buyer and who would be the youngest startup that you have worked on? So oldest buyer is being Himalaya. Of course it has nothing to do with maxima solution that has been as an OEM but it's more of a contract manufacturing partner. But for us there is an, I mean I'm sure Kinneri or probably Kragati would be aware, there's a brand called FTE which recently launched in India which is free and equal. So there was a young girl came across to our office and wanted to kind of had an idea to do something which is color cosmetics was her main forte that she wanted to launch a product in and today she's been, she has launched with only one product, five SKUs and covered by most of the big magazines, covered by most of the good online selling partners and the other small brand now become biggest Bombay Shaving company. So that was also one of our, so I remember Ashutosh, the owner of Bombay Shaving company came to us four years back with one product that he wanted. So from one SKU to 32 SKUs today is what we have been able to be a part of their growth. So what do Kinneri, the relay printer or if I would like to relay printer because generation to generation she has been and their family has been on an entrepreneur crack. So Kinneri, a question to you is a pretty, I would say pretty simple question, not a complicated one of course. Why entrepreneur? Why entrepreneur? To be very honest, business discussions and new ideas and talking to new because we supply process missionally to other entrepreneurs. It's been a dining room conversation for all of us since, since I was a kid. I've been going to office, which was the only place I was allowed to go in my summer vacation since I entered and that's how the seed was put in. I've worked in KPMG for a while, I studied pursuit charted accountancy and then I eventually went into family managed business and I've always had this seed that it's not something, I don't know, I've always wanted to start something of my own or along as a part of the family business. And yeah, I didn't know, I mean, we've never had even been molded to work under someone. That's the best way to put it. So that's why this. What is organic or beverages? So basically what we, it started off as it started off as a product of the manufacturer process machine for the dairy and the beverage industry. And since the past 35 years, we've had knowledge in liquid food processing. So what we did is we set up our own plant on the organic beverages and food and beverages, private limited. And then we manufacture carbonated and non carbonated beverages for a lot of our customers. So the whole idea was people used to come to us to set up plants. A lot of time, customers were not sure how the market is going to respond to that product. So we really thought of bringing in this value addition wherein Organico would act as would help them say in product development also ensuring they're following the right processes, help them basically everything from bench to shelf, shelf part is obviously there for you, is under there for you, but we provided hand holding support or a good great partnership. That was the whole idea of this. And we've worked with a few young brands as well, especially startups. If you've heard of portion, functional drink beverage. Yes, yes. So we've worked with that's one of the young brands and very aggressive brand that have worked with and yeah, and we've even launched our own beverage brand, but mostly for the local market where like, I think one of the things that we've seen is like Fresca, there is Jiru, there is Davat and all these companies, I mean, although they are local, they're giving a tough time to big national brands and like with private labeling and private brands and these local brands, I feel there is a shift or there's a trend being seen in the market. So what is your message you have been dealing with mostly like raw material of yours is fresh, right? Unlike Alok. Okay, Alok is mostly building in chemicals and yeah, so we use just sorry to introduce. So there are a lot of buyers sitting out there amongst those hundred odd people who would be looking for you. You need to elaborate what are the challenges that you face when you source the raw material, you process it, you bottle it, you level it and those guys are sitting in your office at commanding or demanding the prices, returns and freshness of the produce from you. So you need to teach those guys a lesson, I am also a buyer by the way. So I won't go too much in detail. I mean, that is something that differs from customer, there are customers who want like who come to us because of the hygiene that we have at our plant. Okay, there are a lot of these small players who will do packing and private labeling for you, but very few plants have tried and maintained hygiene standards of FSSC 2020 and so on and and we are really working and we really work hard to ensure that and mainly what the thing is not considering this whole COVID situation. I really feel consumers may want to opt for brands and if they promote that like even Harsha was pointed out for brands that keep hygiene in mind who manufacture in a safe manner in clean manner, clean products, contactless products and that's where I think things should move, would move, may move. So yeah, I mean, I think we're trying to maintain that and if that generally tends to cost a premium, which buyers like you are like negotiating on and so on and so forth. And the best part about us is like our plant is very close to Mumbai so there is accessibility as well. So I'm going to contact you and let's see if it works out. Let me just give you one line about Pekinadi, let me just give you one line about buyers. We all are from Bombay, all six of us. Of course, of course, of course, value for money. I think everyone always including Indian consumers all are looking for value for money and it's as a supplier or as a seller you're not even able to provide that you're not going to go anywhere. Ashut, what do you think about vendors, OEMs? What do you think? You have got some good feelings about them? Good feelings. Right, so I might get into some soup here so it's a risky area, I need to take care of it. But on a very serious note, small brands, region brands, it's valid until it gets bigger. So I started my career with ITC and I was in Bihar when we launched Hippie Noodles is what they called it. We called it Hippie Noodles and they were like what's your name? You can speak alpany. I remember very clearly at that time we had this bingo and in West, so obviously Lays was the biggest competitor but in West it was all Balaji. Obviously started from Gujarat but from Gujarat right up till Kolhapur you will only find Balaji. Now the question is is Balaji a private label or a regional player or what? He was that maybe at some point of time till the time people realized that value. This guy gives me value for money, the chips are good, they are consistent in quality and they are at the right price for me and they can set up everything. So I think it's difficult to get into, footing the door is always difficult. So even for big brands, obviously they are very small at that point of time. We should not dismiss anyone. At the same time good quality prevails and by good quality it's not an absolute quality. The best value for money thought we bought at 100 rupees a chip most expensive water right now sell it's quality for money which Kenri is also saying. And I think everyone can carve their niche because the market is so huge and I personally feel with the whole export ban, import ban and issues India is very well placed because our consumption is global right? And we are very well placed because our consumption is internal, is online and I think these are very good times to be positive and think about how to capture that. So Alok and Kenri you need to give me 2% from your turnover with Mr. Tapidia. He's asking for better quality and he's ready to pay higher prices. So please make sure when we deal closer then call me. Prakadev, what do you feel about OEMs? How difficult, what challenges do you face when you interact with contract manufacturers as a buyer? Yeah, I think the two things that we're talking about are very very different. So I cannot associate with the things that Ashutosh is talking about because those are issues you need food. But on the other hand, what I deal with day in day out is sort of a non essential kind of a product. So the demand or the... Prakadev, whatever you are going to say, whatever you are facing with respect to the product which you are having like no returns, damages, passion which moves on. Alok is thinking in a similar kind of manufacturing. So basically the kind of OEMs that we deal with is also brands which already have their own presence. They are very small in need of but they are also manufacturing their own products and kind of trying to establish their own private labels at some point in time. So the kind of challenge that we face is that it is very relationship-based because it's not like you give us a good price and we will give you an order for a thousand products or whatever. You have to build that relationship over a period of time and then build that trust with the OEM to give us the right quality, the right differentiations and kind of exclusivity that a business like furniture or furniture is required. So it is a long-term process. It's not just driven by pricing or quality. It's a lot of things. Like I said, it's like you have to build that relationship with the supplier. You have to assure them that your products are going to sell and it in no way harms or kind of keeps their brand on a back foot. So that is very important in a business which is not as fast moving as an essential sort of a product. So that I think is very, very important in this kind of an environment. Alok, what is your view about buyers? How do you look at them? I've asked you the same question during CMTL also. So I just wanted to check, when you are in such panel discussions, when you are lying on your bed, when you are sitting in your sofa, when you are thinking about post and negotiation, discussion has happened, what do you think about buyers? How do you handle this? How do you handle business is the biggest challenge. That's a common feeling. And more than anything else, I think it's the kick that you get because at one end it's not only the owner of the business or the HOD of the business, it's the business which is down the line has to go and understand that I need to do this for this buyer. So my fight is usually when I sit on the pot more than the bed and this is when I keep thinking, how do I make sure that this is being translated to my team so that it's not like a compulsion to deal with this buyer but it's a vision to deal with this buyer and come to a mutual consent. Very nice. So Alok, I had made a phrase 25 years ago and I had heard it from someone, Alok has made it true today, don't constipate your ideas, keep them out. You gave me examples of bed and sofa, I thought the reality is somewhere else. Very nice. So I guess I've answered. Can you, what do you think about buyers? One liner. What do you think about buyers? One liner. One liner. Good when we crack the deal. Sorry, basically I don't know, like buyers are some people, they are customers, I mean they have their own thought process at times and sometimes this is where they are and this is where they want to go. So you have to be the bridge in between for them and I found a lot, I've actually come across a lot of customers who come to us and they're very clueless and they have this big others, this one customer came to me, I want to launch carbonated beverages, I want to launch fruit beverages, I want to launch coconut water, I want to launch everything. But the first, the only thing I ask, I mean the only thing I ask him sir, you have a marketing strategy ready, you know before you want to start all of these things. Yes, they will figure out how to do it but how to do it. The whole point is that a lot of these consumers are very clueless and you have to act as a bridge, consumer is king but you basically have to act as a bridge as to from where they are and where they want to go. I mean that's at least as co-packers and private labellers and partners that is what I see. Well, let me ask you a question, Raul is also there, Raul, good morning. Okay, so the question is from all of you, private labellers who make contract manufacturers, who can go to all of them. Have you guys, what are the parties, have you guys ever thought of putting yourself in other guys shoes, they learn their business, what are their challenges? Sometimes OEMs have thought, let's go to on the side of buyers, what kind of pressure do they feel within their organization, what are their deliverables to their consumers and to their KRS. So we are kind of doing that in a way. I said we are kind of doing that, we are also venturing out in the market and trying to figure things out for our own brand on a very small scale. So there are some problems that we have faced which we understand and we preemptively share with our 2B potential customers and they really appreciate it and that becomes a sort of a value addition to our consumers. That I can, I mean, my experience in selling private, our own products under Trigofoods has helped a lot of these other potential customers that come to me. I mean, yeah, I mean that helps. Cool. For me, it's been a little different, we as a group have been very clear that we are not wanting to go into our own brand of any of the products that we do for any other brand. So that gives us a very clear understanding but about 10 years back, there was an opportunity where I diverged into licensing business. So where my forte was manufacturing of personal care products and cosmetics, how could I understand the market was by taking the license of the brands which is Mattel Toys which is Barbie and Hot Wheels and that basically is a completely non, I would say completing products with my existing brand owners that I work for. And that also is given me a 10 years of understanding of how the market operates. So sometimes when a brand owner, whether it is a private label or a startup comes to us, they generally have the same problems. In fact, they also ask us like what Kinari has mentioned, they also ask us, sir, you know, we do a general backward mathematics for them X factory is to this, that gives them some confidence that these people are also understanding the nitty-gritties that goes behind selling a product and also they are clear that as a company, we are not going to be ever coming in that category with our own brand. So that gives them a little bit of a conflict. Yeah, I agree with you that it is important that your products don't clash with via co-packing of private labeling customers. Usually, I mean, they should that shouldn't be avoided. Cool. So guys, nothing else is there. Let's go to the guys who are waiting to pounce on us. Okay, Rahul, let's open the session for Q&A. Yes. So, let me, so we've got some questions queued up. Let me first unmute Saurabh Jain. He will ask his first question. Saurabh, over to you. Saurabh. Can you hear Saurabh unmute? Saurabh, are you there? You've got more questions. Saurabh, are you there? Can you hear us? Let's take the next question if it's possible. Or you could ask Saurabh's question and you know, let's get him on. Yeah, has this very interesting question. Saurabh Jain from Decora. My company is into contract manufacturing of furniture. What is the right furniture category to start selling online or to start as privately available over here? So, I think this is a very pertinent question, very relevant question for him. But is he available to kind of receive the answer? Yeah, yes, he's there. Is he? Okay. All right. So, I don't exactly know what he's into the manufacturing of. But furniture probably doesn't seem like but is a very vast category. Depending on what you have expertise in manufacturing, for example, do you have the expertise to make candle wood or solid wood or small items? It depends a lot on what you can do and then explore. Basically, if you go and look online, there is all sorts of furniture, decor, home products being sold. So, there's not one particular category I can point out, unless you tell me what is the kind of expertise that you hold or what is your manufacturing sort of unit like and what is the capacity because it's very vast. It might not seem like but it's very vast. It requires, so if you are, for example, if you have a sofa manufacturing unit, the kind of labour or the kind of expertise in manufacturing that you would need would be very, very different from if you're making panel wood furniture. So, it's very important to first find your niche or see if there is enough support for you to expand that and then bring it on to any channel. It could be e-commerce, it could be through retail or any other channel. But first, I think it's important to identify and figure out what your expertise lies in. What is the kind of infrastructure and the support that you can kind of bring in to build that. So, if I knew a little bit more about what he's into, I could probably answer it more in detail for you. Sure, we'll try and connect. I think it's the manufacturing of furniture, furniture and all. So, decor. Again, exactly. So, my point is that for next three. That's three of the costs. Yeah. If it's a solid wood, it's a completely, so if it's solid wood, you could probably go for beds or dining sets. If it's panel wood, there's like, you can practically make anything and everything out of panel wood. Decor, again, there are decorations, wall shells. So, it's very vast. It's difficult to pinpoint sort of one particular product. And if you were to launch your own private label or work for a private label, you have to identify their needs and see what they're kind of trying to build. So, yeah, I hope that answers. Thanks. Thank you. Yeah, Ram. There's one Mr. Mahavir Shah, I believe, who wanted to ask something. Mahavir, are you there? Yes, I'm here. I can see he's catching on the whiteboard. Yes, by the way, my name is Mahavir and I own a brand called Zenveda. And it's really an honor to see all of you, either your companies or either your patterns of business. Are you coming from Parish Bhai? Parish Bhai? You called me Zenveda. Zenveda is my brand name, sir. Zenveda is your brand name. So, I read some of your articles or your discussion area, I try to understand it. So, I was basically a trader who used to sell products on Amazon Flipkart. After starting there, I started my brand as a private label. So, our core area of sales is through Shopify. So, from my main Shopify, consumers are selling products on our platform. But there are two challenges on both the sides. At the end of a manufacturing, the product that we replenish, we have to maintain its quality and cost of customer acquisition. We have to balance out both the products and sustain them. It has to do with a good balance or the market of the present time. Because the journey you have seen is a few years ago. How should we manage the present and future times? Ashutosh and Harsh would like to take that or I don't want to take it. I think Ashutosh and Harsh would be more apt for... Ashutosh? Ashutosh, you are on mute. Thank you. I was saying I already responded to him on chat. If Harsh can take this answer, I would also love his views. Sure. So, I think Pragati has pointed one of the good points, I believe. Somewhere it is very important for the private brand to figure out its own niche. Otherwise, it all gets into the bigger competitive space. And you are trying to solve for variables like pricing, availability, shell space, etc. Which become a difficult road for the private brand. I think if a private label guy is able to figure out its niche and within the plethora of categories, I think there is nothing like it. A couple of categories where we are seeing this behavior is essentially around health, hygiene, organic, Ayurvedic products or even within a lot of places where the national brands are not so agile which is basically the regional tastes that people cater to, especially within the food space. So, I think from that perspective, niche comes as one of the firsts in order to proceed. Great. That answers the question. Yes, it does. I was really looking forward to what areas should be in the coming time. Now you can move from the whiteboard. I think you have got the answer. You can leave the pen aside. How do I do that, sir? Use Adobe Photoshop. Thank you, Maavir. We will move to the next question. This is Yash Vinani. Yash, can you hear us? Yeah, hi. Am I audible? Yes, absolutely. Hi, this has been an amazing session, guys. So, my question is, as a contract manufacturer, how can I increase my business with private labels? What are the key things that they are looking for? Not the big box brands or something like the private brands that they want to open up. They will have low order quantities. So, what are the key things that they are looking for a contract manufacturer? So, how can I increase my business as a contract manufacturer to these private labels? What is your product, Yash? So, I am basically into apparel manufacturing. And I am making for all these online private brands, Instagram brands, and I have seen a lot of increase in the business in an apparel category. So, I just want to know that how, what are the key things that one should look for in order to increase, to excite these private brands that they should come to me as a contract manufacturer for their partners and associations. Again, Prakati? Yeah, sure. I can see, like we were talking about it before, a differentiation, I think in apparel, the styles and the trends move so fast that I think particular to your category, it is very important that you keep innovating, you bring about new styles, etc. and putting them in the right place through the right channels. So, I am not sure if it is the online channels like Mintra and all that you target. But the only way to increase is one through offering variety. I think in your category specifically, maintaining quality. I think that's the two basic pillars of ensuring that your share of the business increases because it's a highly fast moving sort of a category where people are looking out for new designs. They want to wear what the celebrities are wearing, etc. So I think these two things, maintaining the quality and offering variety is what can be a game changer in this sort of a category. Right. Okay, thank you. Yes, she answers your question. Rahul, with your new permission, I'll take a relevant related question to this. Asked by one Mr. Kaviram Sahani. Sorry, please. What he has asked is that he was into export, into staff business. Now, he's getting inquiry of fashion masks which range from 99 to 599. Wow. First, Kavi, let me just tell you, you are in essential commodity segment today. Okay. So, you sit with me in the Dalchawal segment. Okay. The second thing is, need of mask is going to get attended in next one month's time. Okay, but want of mask is going to sustain for next two, three years until and unless COVID vaccine is introduced in India. When I say need for mask is 2 ply, 3 ply and 95 sub khatam ho jayegi. Badma jab log office jana chalu karenge, they will start traveling, they will start going to meet, they'll start partying. They are going to use the masks. At that time, mind you, what you have written very clearly fashion masks line is going to play a very, very, very critical role. Today also, if you see any celebrity on Instagram, on Twitter, on FB, when they post their videos, 15 days back, they used to put a normal mask. These days, everyone has polka dots, stars, it comes with a flash print, someone has put a skull print. Even Louis Vuitton has started. Yes. You are in a very flourishing category for the next two years. My view here is that if you see, for example, Japan, people use masks on a day-to-day basis even while traveling, it's something which has happened here, I agree. These are the times which are unprecedented times and these lead to a behavioral change. I personally think we are living in a behavioral change times and a lot of people will start using these accessories. For example, times change, but fashion doesn't. So now, no one wipes their mouth with their tie. The country language doesn't have a face, but it's still worn. Masks are now, I think, here to stay. People will keep wearing them. Very nice. Kavita, can I ask you? Thank you so much, Surab. Can you hear me? Can I ask? Thanks for the confirmation of this. We're already in the process of the development. Now, my question is to what distribution channel to take. We go through the organized retail to the Mom & Pop distribution channel. We're not sure of that. Online medical stores. You will enter there and Mom & Pop stores will come to you. Okay, sorry. It's a simple answer and I don't take it too complicated. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Rahul, over to you. We have Shubham who will go next. Shubham, please go ahead and ask your question. Thank you. Hello, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. So my question is in two parts. Parts one is for Keniri and Alok on the product development side. And part two is for the others on retailing side. So part one is basically due to the COVID scenario at the moment, how are you looking into tackling the new product development and solutions to be provided to the players or the customers who comes to you? Specifically, we can take an example of beauty in personal care. And what are the disruptive trends which you have seen in past one month, which you are trying to incorporate into your development cycle. And part two is basically on the retailing side. What are your plans in terms of entering into such categories post COVID where national brands are not yet present? And what is the value do you see in such categories? Cool. Keniri, you want to take it first? Yeah, I don't mind. I'll talk about the product development side. The thing is the kind of trends that we are seeing and even Harshvardhan had touched upon this as well is there is a lot of immunity boosting products that we are seeing, citrus products that are seeing growth. I mean, I'm talking about beverages and even otherwise, a lot of health benefit, Ayurvedic, DIY. Someone told me, DIY products are also seeing a lot of trend. And personal care may one part of that caught my attention was a hand lotion, but with a hand sanitizer. So it's the first time I saw something with a hand sanitizer come hand lotion. So such innovations that are in tune with the COVID times or something that like the behavioral changes that will happen. These are the kind of products that I see will come in the days ahead. But basically, again, touching point health immunity is what I see. There will be a shift towards that. So I think mainly from the development point of view, Shubham is what has COVID taught us is to be at home. It has linked us to Mahabharat back again on television. So people have started getting those nostalgic feeling of, what is this? People have started loving cooking. They have started actually looking into the mirror more in detail in terms of what can I do better, which is my home remedy. Long story short, I think in development, as what Kinadi has mentioned, as a company we have already developed a hand sanitizer with a lotion. So it's ready and ready to offer to multiple brands who are wanting to launch this. It has its own pros and cons, but our job is to be ready with a formula and offer it to brands. Of course, telling them that this is the marketing story and this is something that you got to be very aware of. Second is about today everything has become about hygiene and the need of the hour. But I personally believe that hygiene is one part, but also feel good is another part that people would really not want to let go of. Irrespective when more during such period when things are not that great where stepping out is going to be kind of banned for next one, not banned, but at least people are not going to step out for next one year where people are going to be kind of stuck. So products which will be more in tune will be, of course, these products which make you feel good, which gives you a bit of sense of back to roots, which are ingredients which are more performance based. People will not want to have something which has a shorter shelf life. So shelf life of a product, especially for a personal care on a cosmetic products will play a bigger role. Sometimes they will say that they are okay to go with a synthetic preservative because that gives you a longer shelf life. So these are certain technical things, but overall the disruptive trends are mainly to do with, for example, we have also developed one three in one antiseptic and antibacterial hygiene wash. So basically it takes care of your face, it takes care of your hands and it takes care of your body. So that's the kind of small marketing, disruptive and the gimmick that we are playing with. In fact, I would like to add this one ingredient that I really see it picking up and it is an Indian ingredient which is turmeric, which has also been promoted by Modi ji and any ginger based products like when it comes to beverages. And in fact, one of my cousins from Viral, Shafa and so on he's developed a spectrum in tablets. So innovations like that, which have relevance to these times is what is going on. Great. So we'll move to a slightly different, we'll take up another question which is slightly different. I think he's posted it on the chat box. Yeah. Mr. Gautam Agarwal, if you can go next and ask a question to the panel. Hi, can you hear me guys? Yes. Hi Saurabh. Hi. Okay. I would consider myself an outsider when it comes to the food industry. Prakriti, hi. Special hi to you. Hi. How are you? Very good. I have a quick chat about my background. I've been tied up to Pepper Fry as a financial importer. I was taking care of their import business for a particular house brand which was called Casa Ta. Moving on, we also launched our own brand with their amazing marketplace and the response was fantastic, no doubt. Moving on because we have an investment pool within the family and even though not big, we have that pool and we would like to dedicate that into the food space. It could be a fad which is probably because of the corona virus that things are looking upward for the food industry, but being an outsider and a raw person in this industry, one would only think to go to a contract manufacturer like Kinri, discuss out your marketing plans, come out with your brand and invest some money into the marketing of your brand through an e-commerce channel. Obviously, traditional distribution for the newbies like us would be next to impossible. Is it that simple that it sounds where you have a different suggestion for us, say we have a limited pool of money to invest and we are sure that we want to do it in food, but how and what is the correct way is something I'm really interested to explore. By having said that, sorry, I would also add that we were also interested to understand if there is any licensing agreement available, say a Middle Eastern brand which probably would be interested to come out in the Indian market. We would also, you know, because it kind of makes our investments slightly safer playing on a brand value and I'm trying to explore opportunities in the food space to be honest. Guys, I'll take this one. First of all, taking license agreement of a Middle Eastern brand, as you've said. For the next 5-6 months, I would recommend no because those containers would be surfing through uneven waters. We're not sure that your consignment has come to the port and suddenly that quarantine has come and it's a comparatively low shelf life product. So, advisable, you try to close your commercials with that brand. I'll give you a classic example. Right now it is Ramazan which is going on and India is not able to import dates from UAE, Dubai, Qatar etc. So, in the food segment, I would suggest that if you can contain your emotions. Second thing is, you have been in a furniture segment or furnishing segment, I would, what I learned and you want to get into food now. So, the product categories which you want to get into pickle, squashes, rosemary, candies, health drinks, wheatgrass juice, wheatgrass juice is something which I don't like so I will not recommend it. Rest of the things, let me just ensure you, for the next 1 year, irrespective of what you are going to offer to the market, there are buyers sitting out there. Oh, is it? Okay. The demand of packaged food is going to be tremendous. Because right now, in the last 1.5 months you are doing an internal data analysis which can substantiate again. The packaged foods like juices, like noodles, like pastas, instant mixes, heat and eat. Okay, pickles, squashes, drinks, they all have gone up. Right. Cake mixes. I am not sure if anybody of you have got kids at your home. My daughter is 10 years old. Everyday she will be cooking one cake for sure. Okay, and now she doesn't need help of her mom. So that is the ultimate consumption. Okay, so you are experimenting, maybe you are consuming it directly and this is the consumption. Today when you go to the market, you won't get pickle, papad, you won't get maggi noodles, you won't get pasta. If you guys are getting you, please, you must have done a good job in the last few years. You don't get baking powder. You don't get baking powder. And if you are getting a kidney, I will collect it from you. You are like, take it away from me. Ask. You must have baking powder at Rofas. You don't get it at manufacturers. I have it at home. So I am sorry. I ordered it from a big basket. Very nice. Ashutosh would be very happy. So Gautam, rest assured, one year, one and a half years is up if you want to establish your background. Okay. E-commerce would be, you are saying, a safer option obviously because a new distribution would not entertain a newbie like us, right? The today is still distributed. Distribution will definitely entertain a newbie like you. I and Alok were discussing before this. So, actually, XYZ is a company that today's capacity utilization of Alok, that is only 25-30%. Okay. Challenges for big companies are also there because you don't get raw material. Challenges for small companies are also there. If you can keep commands on raw material, you can keep commands on your labor, you are going to be the king for next 18-20 months. Well, so I don't plan to manufacture them in itself. You know, we would probably go for a... And the best part is, you can contact the kidneys. Madam, you can make pickle, juice, and you can... You can make juice for 100%. Good thing, I have a factory in the family again. These guys are based out of Punjab. They are one of the exporters of these goods. What is the company's name? It's called NAPRO with N. Quite a famous brand. But they are mostly now... They have turned themselves into exporters and contract manufacturers. And what these guys have been asking us to do is form a national brand, or domestic consumption, and, you know, tie up with diggies like big baskets or grophers of the world. Of course, even Amazon Pantry. I'm just trying to understand, is this root of feasible root from direct, from, you know, from a brand to a customer, or the customer acquisition cost is way too high for a model to be sustainable on a long term? I was trying to say this in a very simple term, now in a technical term. Customer acquisition cost vis-a-vis pre-COVID is going to be almost 30% for food segment going forward for next year, year and a half. Your sourcing cost is going to be higher for next six, eight months. Look, Alok is having a smile So, your sourcing cost will be expensive but your customer acquisition cost that is going to be cheaper because there is a captive demand in the market. Also, Saurabh sir, speaking about technical terms, you know, in retail, Jim Roy, Jim Roy, there are a lot of scary, scary words, right? It's not like that in retail, right? There's a cheap space for 12 rupees per pallet. Jim Roy, Jim Roy does exist. Yes. So, for these so-called, so-called, you know, the sort of high margin products, technically they sell on, you pay them back but I'm trying to say, in a physical retailer, even if you give the product for free, saying, give me money back only after you've sold it, he will say, boss, who will pay for the space you are sitting on? You pay me even to sit on my space. So, all these things make it easier for a new player to reach out to the customer via online tunnels. Having said that, you know, again, in technical terms, you know, consideration funnel is there, right? So, first, consideration says, people have heard of you, seen you, bought you, tried you and for good, so leave it. The first job is easy for you. It's free. You've come to the consideration set. You've seen it. You'll probably try it. After that, your product will see. Which is why, you know, and that was the biggest part, you know, for good products, that was the biggest part, you know, some great products have not been able to launch in the past because they were not able to get past this hurdle. But once that hill cube gets to the tipping point, then it can't stop the bottle. And that's what you have to do. It will be easy. So, Ashutosh, sorry, I'm going to be a slightly more, one more question to this. Like Amazon have their own in-house brand, which are Tireless Outage. Right. Is Big Bazaar or Big Basket or Groffers also into the same space of making their own brand? Tireless? Or Groffers said I can say yes and Big Basket said also I can say yes. Sir, the meaning of the private label is the same. I thought which are promoted exclusively by Big Basket as that category. Yeah. We do have. Both have. So, I could probably get in touch with you guys for that. Of course. You can be our OEM partner of Kinnari for competition. Okay, next question, guys. We are a segment altogether. We are a traditional snacking company. If I may say we. I mean, it's in the family though. Gautam, you are trying to hit too many birds with one arrow. No, I'm trying to get a taste of the food industry because I think that's the only survival industry now post-COVID. Very nice. Yes, everything else seems to be leaking at the time. Great. Thank you so much, guys. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you, Gautam. I think we've come to an end of the session. We've already gone past three minutes. I will state something. Yes, anything? Yes. It's already 4.33. So, three minutes succeeded. So, thank you, everybody. Rahul, is there any book or something like Shield or something? What are you saying? You can send it on my WhatsApp. What is it? What is it? Tell me. I said, I'll send you a shield or something. I'll send you an E-Shield. I'll send you an E-Shield. I was thinking of an E-Coffee or something like that. Sorry. Hopefully, we will meet once things formalize. We will have a better session. Hopefully, the physical space. But, yes, thank you very much for your time. I have had some great insights personally. We run this media platform on Randesia. This covers latest trends and happenings within the private label space. So, more to work along with you all. I think some point that I'm taking definitely like some top line of the session for me. One is finding your own niche. Other is how private labels. We were just talking about private labels, how it is growing. But, within this last one month, particularly, of course, need. Needy. Apply change. It's an important mind. They are at the forefront meeting the needs of particularly in the essential space. So, the growth we were anticipating that will happen in 10 years probably has been cramped into, you know, sorry to, you know, exaggerate. But, yes, within a month, I think we've seen that kind of growth. And hopefully, you know, we'll see, you know, because I think this is a very pro SME. Sorry, sorry. I have to introduce you. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely, sir. We've been trying to teach the world for 10 years. We've been teaching the virus for a month. Exactly. And that's why we chose this topic from IndianItailer.com. I thought this is very pertinent. A lot of people have been writing to us, you know, regularly, you know, with their questions that you, there couldn't have been a better panel than you. So, thank you. Everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye.