 Hey, good afternoon everybody time steward here. I'm with Liz and our guest today is Marcus Sharon and hey Marcus How are you today? It's a great day? Let me tell you that and I'm glad to be here. I think we're gonna have a great conversation Awesome, you're you're one of our favorite Speakers Marcus you always bring it and you know, I gotta admit you're inspiring when you speak and it's like everybody's taking notes And you're sitting there thinking well, I hope half these people go back and do a half of what it is Do half of it Tom. That's a that's a very successful day, you know The reality is, you know, I mean I tell people all the time You know the life of a speaker. It's the ultimate you can take a horse to water, but you can't make a drink, right? And you know, it's like it's one thing to inspire people it's another thing to inspire people to take action and They're two very very different things and only You know, I mean I would say I would say That I'm at the point in my career where I don't even judge the talk anymore in the moment It's more six months later a year later What are the comments that people make to me? Hey that thing you said I applied it changed my life and That's the idea right changed my business saved my business That's also why a book is really helpful because you you start to see some of those Practical applications and I just I want to I don't want to speak in theoretical You know when I give people ideas that they can apply Personally and professionally to their life right then and there in a perfect world That's what we want and speaking of I got to say this one other thing speaking of like This industry Man the events I've done in this space and I'm not just saying this I think it's one of the best like audiences of any Community I've ever been a part of just like the general passion that you see from Attendees is significant. It's really really fun really fun. Why do you think that is Marcus? Well, I think I think part of it is a lot of a lot of the folks started off as just Hardcore just blue collar workers that were just trying to just trying to succeed right just trying to make an honest living and They worked hard enough to grow it into something that that now requires them to Think more about Stepping out of the business and working on the business versus constantly working in the business, right? And I think also that there is Probably not enough places where where industries like this can get together and really just Share and feed off of each other and they're the trials the tribulations the wins the losses and And I I have absolutely felt this like with I say like others like like Like absolutely is a different. It's a different vibe The one I did I forget where it was was electric. It was electric It was a bigger audience, but it was just awesome and that's why I'm I'm excited to do, you know more of it here soon Yeah, the residential cleaning industry as a as a special community, you know I mean for one thing you see more hugging within a group. You see what you see way more and in fact people ask me sometimes Like what type of events are you doing these days Marcus post COVID and what's funny about this is solopreneurs Entrepreneurs and small businesses are having all the in-person events right now Because they're just and I think somebody asked me why do you think that is because corporations are not and My answer to this was because I think entrepreneurs And in small business owners are so used to risk taking like that's they got bit going into business is a big fat risk in and of itself So it's like everything I do every day is a risk just trying to make payroll this Friday is a risk So going and meeting with people that I love to make my business better. It's gonna be a risk I'll I'll take that gamble. I'm not saying that everybody's like that But I'm just saying like this is consistently what I've seen so almost every in-person I've done this year, which I've done about 10 or 11 in-person events this year It's it's all been Solopreneur small businesses types. No corporate stuff. That's all been virtual and you know for the most part You know, we've been out there grinding right through COVID. I mean, you know respecting the rules and being safe But out there in the general public doing what we do every day Well, yeah, I mean, that's There's so much here that I could just I could just go into about this it's You know, let me just say the respect I have for the residential cleaning space is pretty monumental and This is an industry that wasn't saying hey I'm waiting on the government to come fix my situation They went because for most of them they've always just said I'm I am going to dictate my future I'm gonna go make it happen. I'm gonna go make magic. I'm gonna do what it takes It's a very do what it takes attitude to be successful in this particular industry and And it was it's been pretty it's been pretty cool to see and you know I can relate to a degree as a pool guy, right owning a swing pool company Where we started with out of a beat-up pickup truck 21 years ago for me right out of university, right? It's like I I That's that's the road that I've been on. It's super salty, right? Very salt to the earth There's incredible satisfaction that comes with that though and so that's why That's why it's industries like this and events like this that I just I frankly I just look forward to more and the audiences tend to be a lot more receptive to the new teachings It's a new ideas. That's that's another one. It's not there's no way it's gonna work for us So I think that's I think that's important here Yeah, and you know the motivation for a lot of the people in the residential cleaning industry Maybe it's a little bit different than some of the other industries you speak to I mean large corporations for instance Their success is pretty much baked in it's just a matter of how much wealth they're going to accumulate Whereas a lot of the folks that you're working with at an arc see event and an ISSA event are still fighting for You know food and shelter making payroll each way. That's it. It's it. It's a dog fight It's a dog fight and it's only gotten, you know, that much more challenging Since COVID of course, I think the demand for a lot of these services and certain arenas have it have increased as well I mean, it's there's been give and take all right There's been there's been odd blessings that have come from this and then there's been You know call it challenges as well But that's that's your what yours what you I'm totally picking up, you know, what you're putting down and you know That's why one of the things I'm talking about this year is I'm gonna be talking more about how we can have transformative conversations with our employees as leaders and If we know how to have transformative conversations Then we build way more loyal team members that will never leave us because we got a lot of you know like challenges in our space one is Recruiting and hiring is just a mega issue and then we have retention and and You really shouldn't talk about one without talking about the other because then sometimes you're just spinning your wheels You got a great marketing team for example, but your customer experience stinks up the joint Well, it's like you're you're just once again spinning wheels because you're turning customers out really really fast So it doesn't matter right exactly you're the hamster and so I'm gonna be talking about creative ideas that Creative ways that we can find more people stand out from our competitors who are also looking for Team members and at the same time How can we once we get somebody on the team? How can we have them there for life? and much of that gets overlooked and it's what nobody taught us in school and It's how can you as a leader whenever you have a conversation with an employee? Make it truly transformational and meaningful to that person so they feel heard and so they think to themselves Every time I meet with Tom every time I meet with Liz. It's just something they just make me a better person It's like they use the phrase like I can't even describe it. I just know I'm gonna be better off I'm gonna be better for it whenever I meet with them they bring clarity to my life They help me with my direction. So what is that like? How does that manifest itself when you're having that one-to-one with an employee or when you're having that difficult conversation with an employee with a team member? I'm gonna dig into that because you don't hear nearly enough about it and I'm really doing good at it And I can't wait to talk about it and frankly everybody that's heard me in the space has heard me talk about sales and marketing stuff But ultimately what I teach people how to do is how to build trust through communication sometimes that manifests through marketing Sometimes that manifests through a sales conversation But lots of times that manifests every single day when we're having conversations with team members individually or collectively Or potential team members well in bottom line. It's just a relationship again That's that's what you're always teaching is building that relationship and building and building and building and building And then so the question becomes how do we build the relationship, right? because Because the problem is if people stay with us purely based on pay Well, that's a zero-sum game because there's always probably somebody that's going to pay more Right. And so we have to be able to Fundamentally offer them something that makes them say it's just not worth it to leave it's just not worth it and So what is the thing that we're offering that makes them say it's just not worth it Well, one of that is and this is one of the one of the questions. I love to ask managers and leaders is this How often when you're talking with a team member, do they have a light bulb moment? And this is how this is like to me This is the highest level litmus test of your efficacy as a transformative Communicator and leader So what I mean by that is we all know what a light bulb moment is and you can tell that it just happened when the person says You know what now that you mention it or wait, I know what I need to do or hey I've got an idea or I Realize from talking to you. This is what I need to do So all those are there's are like nuanced manifestations of a light bulb moment They just made a discovery in their mind and they're ready to share it with you the problem that most leaders have is Somebody comes to us with an issue with a need or we see that they have an issue or need and Generally speaking somebody comes up to us with an issue or need because as leaders because we've seen that many many times Probably over the years or something like that and we're used to being a leader We quickly tell them what we think they should do This is prolific The problem is if you just tell them what they should do What have we really done? Do they own it? No, does it change them as a person? whereas instead Liz you come to me and say Where I go to you, let's say there's something going on What's going on and then you dump on me that thing whatever that thing is in your life, right? Everybody's got something going on or multiple things. Yeah, and in that moment We can say to them or I could hypothetically say to you So I want to help you figure this out Liz and I think we can figure this out together Is it all right with you if I ask you some questions and We figure out what we need to do here Person says yeah, okay, and now now They have said I am ready to receive But really what's happening is because you are going into it with I'm going to ask you some questions. It's not I already know what you should do It's I'm going to ask you questions because here's what's so fascinating about humans and human beings Most of the time when we have a problem inherently even subconsciously we know what we need to do But we just haven't verbalized it or it hasn't come to the surface The great leaders in organizations They help draw it to the surface, but here's the key You are the one though as the team member that comes up with the idea In other words, it's self-discovery Whereas if I as the leader say here's what you need to do Here's how you're going to solve your problem. Let me tell you what you need to do Which I'm telling you that's 90% of what leaders think leadership is and I'm not saying the people listening this right now Necessarily say that but we do that more than we realize. Yeah versus when they come to us. We walk them on a journey and When we go through it, they just say things like oh my gosh, I never realized this about myself Oh my goodness now that you say that and the that that we just said was a question It wasn't a here's what you should do and really the only time we should say what they should do is when we're essentially saying I Agree, that's what you should do that thing. You just said That's it now. You're tracking. That's exactly right. I know you can do that You're capable of that But they discovered it for themselves and because they discovered it for themselves now they own it Whereas if we just tell it to them or force feed it to them or communicate it to them because we might be Articulate enough to do that because we've had the experience when we just dump it on them sure It's fine. They might do it, but they haven't changed And we haven't galvanized something really special with that person because of it This is the thing that keeps from somebody from leaving for five more dollars an hour for seven more dollars an hour for ten more dollars an hour And somebody might say Well, I don't know if I can communicate with my team members like that Maybe there's a language barrier. Maybe there's a this barrier or that barrier I'm telling you we got to find ways to make those special moments happen otherwise There's always other options and that's going to be difficult for you to build a team much less Create a farm system of managers and leaders. I'll shut up because I know I'm just talking like So I want to give you a chance because otherwise I'll just go and go like a wild man Say one more thing about this one more thing about this speaking of this if you look at what most leaders managers do people come to us and They come to us with problems and often some are like this is so basic like it's so obvious what you should do now Because we're busy because we've got a thousand texts. I've got thousand emails. What do we do? We answer the question The problem though is when we answer the question and I'll pick on you for a second time If you just go and you immediately answer their question, which this is prolific by the way This is not this is not a typical. This is the norm. Yeah, this is my go-to mode. I'm the answer I got stuff to do you got such a do when you do that and you immediately give them the answer It teaches them to do what ask more questions. Yeah That's every time I got a problem When they have a need a problem they need a solution go to Tom he's Google he's got all the answers and The issue is if you talk to leaders and you say well Marcus are you expecting me just to go through this long journey with them because I don't have the time for that I Think to myself. Okay. Okay, so let's see what's happening here. You're saying You don't sit them down and say, okay, let's figure this out together because if you're great with a few questions And not many but with a few questions you can get them to a point where they're saying, you know Marcus, here's what I think I should do and you're able to say as the boss That's exactly what I would have said as well well done now run with it And next time do that same thing you don't have to come to me because you know inherently what to do Now the person feels like oh, I can do this. I'm I'm empowered. That's how you raise essentially a farm system of leaders Future managers future CEO's whatever that is within your company, but if we teach them to keep coming to us All we're doing is creating a situation where we get more text in the middle of the night We get more emails in the middle of the night. We're dealing with more problems and You know if we're being really honest with ourselves, and that's the only way to be The reason why we tend to do this as leaders other than the fact that we argue a lie that it's more efficient From a timing perspective. It's because we like to feel smart We like to feel necessary. We like to feel important and Thus people come to us We want to give the quick answer And we love hearing man, I knew I knew you'd have an answer Brilliant, you know Describing something it sounds like an indulgence That's right, and there's a shot of dopamine that just comes with the look at me But eventually that same shot of dopamine is what kills us to burn out and fatigue Because we never ever created a self-sustaining team of problem solvers and Even worse than what do we do afterwards? What is wrong with these people? They can't answer the simplest question Great point and we're not even looking in yes We're not looking in the mirror and saying where did I go wrong here in terms of my ability to train these folks You know, it's like I have two companies About 150 employees right now almost all my time as One of the owners of Both these companies is spent teaching them how to communicate at a higher level that is Other than the things that I do like my main role is Establish this culture and we call it in both Both companies we call it a culture of question first question first Somebody comes to me with a problem I'm going to as a leader question first So as to help them start to think if some customer calls me and complains about one of my employees Before I blow up question first Understand seek you first to understand right? That's the idea if I'm meeting with my team and I'm having just a team meeting Instead of me pontificating all the things that we need to do to be successful this week or this day Question first So folks we got a big day ahead Let's talk about what we got to do to make it great What do you think and then they start to say and then we're developing people Developing their minds. We're developing their intentions, but yet you generally don't see I think we like learn these bad habits from either Going to lectures at universities where all we get like this is what so like drives me crazy about College education as a whole you go to a classroom That you could have easily just stayed home and listen to the recording Because you didn't have any actual interaction if we ever have a team meeting where there isn't a clear Interaction and where the team isn't suggesting the majority of the solutions We failed as a leader We failed as the leader if everybody is the CEO as the CEO if everybody Sees you as the visionary the ideator the one that comes up with all the good stuff We're failing to develop the talent. It probably also means that we're way too bloated in our like own belief of like our Great innovations and our ideas and how like it's all here when people say to me as businessly. Yeah, it's all here You know what I mean? I'm like no No, I don't know what you mean at all because that's a train wreck waiting to happen And that also says that you have a leadership development problem like if it's all here like No, you're gonna fail eventually. You're not gonna be at a scale You can scale maybe a couple employees like that and once you get above 10 you're screwed I mean you're gonna be in big big trouble So Marcus, I think I have the title of your new book. I think it should be they ask you ask That's like Liz that's that's really good. It's really good. I like it I really like that What you're saying and one of the things that you said really struck me hard is Because one of the things that we teach is that Self-confidence comes from self. That's what it's called self-confidence. That's right And so a lot of times when you're trying to build people's self-confidence You'll like tell them things and give them answers and try to tell them how great they are But using your strategy helping them to be able to come up with their own answers They figure out how great they are and how smart they are and that's how the self-confidence is built, right? It's all about you make them the star And there's so many different ways you can do this. Let me give it Let me give you an example I do actually all the time at events and now I mention this if somebody actually watches me do a q&a They're like son of a gun. He just did what I saw him do that one time So usually at events if you have a q&a at the end of a session Somebody asks a question And then you answer the question and that's what everybody does Because again speaker person wants to look smart So what I tend to do is And let me give you a perfect example one time. I was speaking in uh, you talk There's a few hundred people in the room Just given this keynote. It was leading a q&a and this person In the crowd says I mean Marcus This was and I just got so I'm so flooded with ideas right now. This was so great Tell me what do you think I should do first? I mean now now I mean because I got all these ideas. What do you what do you think I should do first? now 99% Of teachers or speakers or presenters or leaders are going to tell them in that moment what they should do first Now if you just respond, why do you think you should do first? You haven't done anything good either. It's like, you know, it's like look it up No, it's no good. That was dumb that our parents used to tell us look it up Instead of hey, let's go figure this out What I said This particular day and we'll say that his name was Tom I said to him the person that said it Tom This is great My sense is From your passion and enthusiasm as you've been sitting here You've had some impressions as to what you should do first So here's what we're going to do if you would tell me what you're thinking you should do first And then I'll tell you what I'm thinking He said okay He said I think I should start here here and here I said really why do you think that he said well because then I could do this this and that And I said in Tom That's exactly what I would have told you as well And then I said ladies and gentlemen give Tom a huge round of applause And that was the end of the talk for the day Right. So where did we land? Tom was the hero Tom was basking that moment in his like like yeah, who me they're clapping for me. Yeah, right That's glorious and he was able to take that and own it because in his mind he discovered the thing For him all I did was confirm That's the highest level right there and I'll be frank in saying if you watch Listen to most conversations You do not see that as the case. You don't see that as the case What what you just did there I think is is is really important it's huge because The quick response is that's a good question What do you think you should do and you really aren't setting them up for success right framed it in a way where I know you know the answer. I can just tell by your enthusiasm and you know, this is Yeah, I mean you you framed that in a way where they had the confidence More times than not you asked somebody and they said, I don't know. I mean Which by the way, let me just say this is a quick quick communication tip Once you start asking questions In in in living this question first mindset You will oftentimes because they're not used to it Because many of them aren't even comfortable enough with it yet or don't believe you're serious about it yet. They'll say I don't know I'm not sure and So often the person that let's say they just got through some Communication the session with Marcus are like I tried it and they said, I don't know Here's what you say next and it's so simple You say and let's just be hypothetical. Let's say Liz you you said I had asked you a question And you said Marcus I really I don't have any idea And then I would just come right back to you and say all right. It's just totally fine But if you had to make a guess If you had to what would it be? And now all of a sudden you're always going to render an answer If you had to choose one, what would you choose? Just a guess if you had to say What you might do in that moment? What would it be? and now you you're going from a place of I don't know what I do right now, right to a place of I'm living in the solution I'm thinking in terms of solutions and you know sometimes um people Especially managers leaders come up to me and is like I'm just sick of like Employees complaining. I said, okay. Well, I understand that but it sounds like you've got a cultural problem And there's different reasons why they complain but one of the one of the things that we within my companies we have the You know different core values And and one of them is living the solution and as part of that we have a general rule which is If you want to complain about something and I'm not talking about something that's like sensitive or HR related But if you wanted to you know say hey, you know, it's we've got this the way We're doing this certain thing is really inefficient, right? And I just think it's dumb Well, if you want to complain about something the rule is you have to also come with what do you think we should do about it? What's the better way? What's the alternative? So if you think the method stinks, right? If you think I hate the fact that we leave at 8 a.m in the mornings Okay What would you suggest that time is and they know when they come to the table? They're going to be asked what they feel the solution is because the only thing that matters is What's the solution now again the caveat here is if it's something If it's a sensitive problem or an HR that's we're not going to do that then but if it's literally a situation where they say You know, I feel like you know the route that you have me on is a really dumb route. Okay So if you could change it How specifically would you change it? What would you suggest? Well, I don't know. I mean, you're the boss. I know let's pretend you're the boss for a second If you had to choose Well, would you suggest would be the route that you take and then eventually they're going to give you an answer At which point you could say, you know, I knew you had it within you Which is why liz you have the capability within you to be a manager one of these days But what you just manifested there that? Live in the solution That's what we need to manifest all the time. Do you have that within you this suddenly says I guess I do Thank you for that And now we've had a conversation where liz hopefully ideally is thinking the rest of the week about, you know what? Yeah, I gotta do better. I can do that I'm totally into this so Marcus we've got a few uh people uh chiming in through chat Our good friend Diana Henley is uh, hi Diana just bought her bought her ticket to uh, vegas I think it's uh, you see you You sold you sold one good job. I hope to not let you down Diana And that's going to be like my whole my like i'm gonna put it to the universe right now Do not let Diana down deck audits. She's coming to this event to hear you Marcus. All right. So you better do well I have to tell you that Diana and I did a really cool thing Um based on your book And I and we saw you somewhere. I can't remember where We filmed. I don't know how many different videos. Do you remember Diana? You probably have an answer at least 30 You know, they ask you answer videos and and for our for our cleaning companies And it was a lot of fun. We we really tried to channel you while we were doing it It was so you said you want to you How you gave the success of one of your speeches is on results. Well, there's a result for you So that was really really good for us. We do Oh too, Tom Yeah, we do robin, uh ask a question just a little while ago He's uh asking how would a leader approach turnover and retention of employees differently Well, I mean so I think there's a there's a little bit to the of clarification to the uh to the question, right? It's like how can leaders Do it better when it comes to turnover retention, right? And I think a big part of it is I will go back to Where I started with this How often are you having transformative conversations? With your team members. I've got some Well with at my agency at impact. I've got some people that are like superstars superstar talents And they could easily get jobs at other places. I'm sure they could get paid more But one of the things that they know would be different is They wouldn't have those magical conversations with me and their and their other Let's just call it peers on the team because we've created such a culture of question first of uh radical candor with each other Of high caring yet high directness with our feedback our conversations The stuff that we're going to talk about In this is how we can Retain that's just one way. I mean, there's many different ways, but that that's one way And I'm going to talk about some of them. I think there's a lot of creative things that we can do. I'm starting to see how smart leaders are Making the workplace fun by simple Means when I mean by that, let me just give you just give me an example and this is non gimmicky, but it's like How much friendly competition do you have with staff? That they can talk about And when I say friendly competition you create some type of competition where there's a clear um award At the end they get they get something for the thing that they did And it's something that they can all talk about they can have great banter about But it's not such a big deal that it causes them to be overtly competitive But it just becomes a fun component a gamification almost of doing their job I know I've done a lot more of that in the last year or so and it's been working really really well But the thing that I like to talk about is what we've been talking about is the way we tend to Communicate with staff and whenever anybody says how can I get how can I do better with retention? And turnover I go to that first and quickly I can generally tell that there wasn't A deep-rooted relationship with that Employee with that team member the question is why what was lacking there? How many times did that employee come to you? um with something difficult that was going on in their life Over the course of their employment Because we know there's lots of difficult things that we're going through But if somebody's going through those things alone and they never share it with you as a leader I would argue that we haven't created that special bond and that special connection And so it's not like we're just constantly looking for problems But we're creating a safe space to where someone feels like Although marcus or whomever Might not have the answers. I know i'm going to be better off If I share this with him Somehow i'm going to benefit from it and be a better person Yeah, that's that's great. I love that too Stephanie's uh sharing here that When she's doing interviewing Um before um, she's taught new office staff to communicate this way. So I guess she's uh answering a question with a question Um because this is great. So there's a there's a communication principle Uh That I'll be talking about in vegas and What I call it is vanguarding now vanguard the original phrase comes from The part of the roman army That went into battle first. So they were the first ones to go in and what they did is they formed a Like a v-like formation with the army and they would they would they would go in And like I said, they were the first one to go in and solve the problem. So vanguarding is The process of knowing the issues the doubts the concerns the worries that somebody would have Before you're confronted with it and addressing it early so that it never manifests Because in life the greatest way to solve a problem is to address it before it becomes a problem So just like earlier time we had that little conversation where I was pretending you were the audience member And you asked me the question. What do you think I should do first once again? Like you said and we we actually showed an example of vanguarding Because you notice it very keenly. You're like mark is you you didn't just say hey, what do you think you said? So i've been watching you during this Speech during this presentation tom and I can tell by your enthusiasm that you probably have Quite a few ideas. So before I tell you what I think you should do I would love first for you to share What you think you should do and then I'll share your mind now The beauty behind that is it doesn't come across as again confrontational Now let's say that you want to do use this question first mindset with with team members You notice earlier When I said this I said the key was you have to come out with Are you willing to go on a journey together? All right, so sometimes that would be somebody comes up to me and says marcus I Am lost and I don't know what to do Okay, great. Thank you for sharing that with me now listen I want us to figure this out together, but in order to do that. I'm going to have to ask you some questions Would you be willing to honestly answer those questions for me? And if you are I think we can get there. Would you be willing to do that? That's the vanguard That sets the tone in the stage That takes the person from a potential defensive position To a place of yeah, I'm I'm I'm willing to do that In other words, they're turning the guard the lead over to you But if they do not allow you to be The leader in that moment in other words In other words the one that's driving the questions And they see themselves as one receiving the question and then giving thoughtful answers Well, then they could see it as an interrogation because you didn't set it up with a vanguard They could see it as meandering Once again because they don't understand the why behind it So that's the vanguard I there's many manifestations of this So somebody says something to me like hey um Um, let me let me give you an example. I've got one of my one of my greatest team members at my agency When I came on board Because our companies merged together And he at the time was the acting uh c coo of the company and um So I saw him give a presentation to the team And after he gave this presentation to the team he came up to me and this was like our first main conversation ever He's like hey marcus. So, um, I'm so glad to hear what what did you think of my presentation today? And I have a choice I can just be pass them say oh, it's fine But then I'm not being hide caring nor highly direct because if I cared about them I'm not enough. I saw flaws I'm I'm not going to skip that because it's not going to make him a better person At the same time if I just come right out and say hey, man, you got some clear issues Then I've just totally torched the relationship in his confidence. So he doesn't feel the caring So I've got to have high caring high directness when I talk to him at the same time I've got a vanguard whatever I'm about to say To see if he's truly wanting or in a place to receive that feedback right now Oftentimes people say hey, I want feedback, but they don't really want the feedback in that moment And so I want praise I want praise So in that moment with him and he later on told me that this was a life changing moment for him I said to him I really enjoyed watching you and I would like to give you some feedback Do you really want To have honest feedback for me right now He said I really want to have honest feedback from you right now I said when you speak Do you notice who you tend to look at? He said The audience I said the audience was one of the groups that you were looking at But you kept staring over To the CEO Whose name is Bob And so I said did you realize you kept looking at Bob the whole time? He said no, I I didn't realize that I said now Now that you know that you were looking at Bob Why do you think You were doing that even though you didn't realize it subconsciously you were doing it now that you know You were doing it. Why do you think you were doing it? He said Well, and here's the discovery light bulb moment right now that you mentioned it I think i'm probably looking at bob for his approval to see if i'm saying the right thing I said yes But the problem with you doing that chris and his name is chris The problem with you doing that chris is what? What is your audience perceive in that moment? he said Well, I guess my audience perceives That i'm not as confident and when i'm telling them as I should be You're exactly right But if you stop That will change He never looked at bob again Never looked at bob again Does bob feel bad about that now or is he okay with it? Bob is thrilled because this is what leadership development looks like because if the team still sees him looking at bob Guess what you don't have a coo Or yeah, you've got somebody that's a mouthpiece from bob And so if you look at if you just take that one though There's there's a whole bunch of principles of communication there of transformative leadership communication I come right out Question first mentality right do you really want? That feedback from me right now also a vanguard getting in front of the potential issue He gives me the yes I come right back with another question. Do you notice who you keep looking at? He didn't notice it since you looked at the audience. You also kept looking at bob Now I could have said in that moment. Here's the problem with that But I said to him what's the problem with you looking at bob? What's the perception that your audience receives? He says My audience doesn't see me as an authority. It's exactly right. So see he's having these light bulb moments Because his brain's being stimulated and I'm just massaging it the whole time Helping him become the leader that he can be today. He's a world-class leader in communicate. I mean he is off the charts Off the charts, right? And so that's what's possible That took longer than if I had said You did great It certainly took longer if I had said you need to stop looking at bob But boy was it worth it Yeah So there's a vanguarding issue that that individual had that asked the question That's a vanguarding issue. That's a vanguarding issue. You're not setting it up You're not getting the permission To approach it in the way that it needs to be done. The other thing about this notice how I said it needs to be a We-based conversation so I want To help you figure this out, but in order to do that we need to have a conversation I'm going to have to ask you some questions. Would you be willing to do that so we can figure out what we need to do together? Person is almost always 99 percent of the time. They're going to say Absolutely Just like, you know from a like a let's let's look at this really quickly just from a personal relationship side sometime my wife has Like everybody has something bad that happens that day And she'll start to dump on me right which I want her to because that's what I signed up for now I though need to have the self-awareness and the situational awareness to say Not just to be clear Would you prefer that I I just listened right now? Or do you want me to help you work this out and figure it out? Of course at this point she knows how it works. Sometimes she's like I just want to dump right now awesome I'm ready. I'm ready for it. I just want to hear it all right And then I just go in like receive mode. Yeah anything else. What else is bugging you? Yeah, I feel you there What else happened? Right, so it's just like keep giving it to me keep dumping because here's what's funny If you do that you say that eventually she's going to say in my case I felt good So what do you think I should do? First she wanted to feel like she was heard Yeah Didn't want to go in solution mode Many people like that many employees are like that This is consistent. It happens All the time absolutely I I'm super excited about this van guarding because you said a word that I run into a lot and people will think that I Being combative or attacking if I'm asking them too many questions Or especially if I asked them in a like quickly or in a row without first van guarding You're right And the thing about this too loses As you're going through this and you're living this philosophy of question first with with peers friends family team members You'll even have to vanguard sometimes after they've given you permission and after you go and it comes out in subtle ways So let's say that you and I were getting there, but it's it's work. It's work to get there It's work for you to discover a thing. I might Get ready to ask another question But before I do I'm going to say something like now doing great. We're almost there keep going This one's going to be difficult, but I know if you really lean into it We're going to probably make a discovery and then I'm going to say the question So I'm going to reiterate The hey, this is worth it. What we're doing. I recognize this is hard. Whatever that whatever that thing is And now the person almost feels recharged or at least they feel understood or heard that this ain't easy sometimes I'll say to like I'll say to somebody in the midst of a series of questions I might say now, listen, I know it might seem like we're just This is frustrating because we're not getting there But I promise we're making progress So just a few more questions and then it's all going to make sense And then I'll ask the next question because that's probably what they're thinking Humans tend to be very forgetful. We tend to be impatient And so we want to feel like there is a there there, right? It's like what is What what is the landing? What's the in game here? And so if I remind them this is going somewhere, I promise We're getting there That is going to significantly help them to recharge And essentially finish run through that finish line These are nuanced skills That take practice. None of the stuff I'm talking about is just like 100 natural And it starts for many of us as children. We ask our parents questions. They give us answers And so consciously it teaches us Just to answer the question So in life people come to us with questions. We give answers And that carries over to when we're parents and our kids ask us questions When they're two and three years old, we tend to just Give answers and some kids especially the really smart ones ask 100 questions an hour And parents that aren't putting this together. We love our kids We keep answering 100 questions an hour and it just teaches them keep asking questions And they drive us crazy because they're always asking questions But we never stop for a moment and say why are they asking all these questions? We're teaching them to do that and then we become leaders of organizations And as we become leaders of organizations, we have to do the same thing And then we create a mountain of texts and emails because we haven't developed leaders Or we haven't developed those really significant relationships. And oh by the way, we're not the only ones that should have these The reason why I believe so much in in teaching transformative communication is so i'm not the only one that knows how To induce discovery and have these light bulb moments with team members If I could teach it to team members, they can teach it to everybody else And now all of a sudden we're communicating in a level that you just do not see in organizations around the world That's powerful And it's possible. I know it sounds like I don't know if that's even feasible It is feasible it is Even if even if english isn't their first language it is feasible To still develop this pattern and style of the way you communicate within your company And it sounds like it's akin to some sales techniques in a way because You're motivating the person that you're talking to To really want to work hard to answer your question When you're vanguarding and setting it up in a way, it's like You know, I'm I'm not going to mail it in and say I don't know I'm not going to give a lazy answer because Marcus makes me feel really good and I'm going to bust my butt to try to give him the very best answer I can 100 tom and that's why this is a principle-based conversation You know, sometimes I'll teach a A sales class and I'm like here's what we're not going to do. I'm not going to give you 10 closing techniques to use To close the deal because that's not principle driven I'm not going to give you 10 perfect responses if they ask you these 10 questions or say these 10 things Because there's another thousand potential responses you're going to get If you know principles of communication You'll never seek to find the thing you won't be caught in the snare You you you won't have a situation where you're stuck or don't know what to say or do You know, you started this tom with a really nice compliment. It's like, you know, Marcus We we love you as a speaker and one of the things that That started me teaching so much on communication in the first place I actually happened With first it was with other professional speakers that came up to me They would say Marcus. I saw you with the audience today the way you went in the audience you were asking questions and It's like I just don't know if I could take that risk Can you teach me how you do that without blowing up in your face? And so I started getting that question a lot a derivative of it And then I had some situations where audience is Started to say to me The way you teach is different. Can you teach me how to teach my team the way you taught us today? And then once I heard that a few times My they asked your answer brain took over and I said you should probably Start to think about how you're doing this So that you can teach each other because the marketplace is telling you Marcus They want to know And so that's why like I'm excited to talk about that Some like some of that this year in vegas Because it's not something anybody certainly in the residential cleaning space or in most spaces even know I talk a lot about although it's one of the great passions of my life Yeah, this is awesome fishing and kids That's I kind of all go together so that's yeah I So you are speaking Monday at convention november 15th convention is like the 15th on a monday and it wraps up thursday 18th maybe yeah, and you're going to be there you're speaking like the first day you're doing two programs right marcus yeah, i'm doing Essentially what i'm doing is i'm going to spin my first section just talk about creative ways that we can find more Employees more team members recruit. What can we do about that? Okay, so we're just going to try to look at creative options in ways and then the second session or the second half of my Program it's going to be all about transformative leadership communication for better retention um and less turnover in the company and we're going to be talking about these like We're going to be discussing some of these principles and it's going to be astoundingly eye-opening to anybody that is there Like really it is because because just like today. I think anybody's listening to this Everybody is reflecting on how we do the scenarios. We've talked about our typical habits The ones where we know she's like I probably could do that a little bit better now. I'm thinking about it I don't sometimes I just answer right away And am I really inducing those light bulb moments and like these are the things that are going through our heads I love teaching this stuff because it reminds me I need to do it, right? That's what's so wonderful about teaching it and so anybody that comes to that session Here's my promise to you if you really lean into that session, especially the second half You'll come back to me in six months and you'll say if you applied it you'll say Not only change my business But my personal life and the relationships I have on a personal level with friends and family Has been significantly affected by that session Marcus Yay Yeah, I get it. This is awesome. Look Robin's going to be in both sessions All right, Robin. I'll be we can sit together Robin. So for anybody that doesn't know It's monday the 15th and marcus speaks from nine to ten And then again from 10 30 to 11 30. We need that half hour break to absorb the first hour And then Then we'll be able to work hard on that second hour. All right, diana is going to be there too. I'm excited. You're going to be there diana Yeah, this is uh, this is going to be so cool I had no idea marcus. I mean I knew you know, they ask you answer and you know all of those techniques on the sales side This is you know, i'm excited, you know, and i'm i'm sitting here thinking that you know a lot of times I have these communications and i'm just thinking of it as a just another thing on my list that I need to check off and I'm really missing some some some some goal and opportunities. That's right. That's exactly right. That's right and the more we're aware of it The more we can start to notice it when it pops up when it comes up during the day and we'll stop ourselves Don't fall back into that habit I could just yeah, I could just say the thing right now, but i'm not going to do that right now I'm not going to do that. I'm going to go on this journey because it's going to be well worth it And they're going to change and our relationship is going to change because of it. So This was super exciting y'all. I'm excited to see everybody Uh in a couple weeks. It's going to be it's going to be great. It's going to be great All right, and those of you that are on this this uh smart business moves right now I'm speaking on monday at three And when I do my q and a I want you guys to give me the eyes Making sure I do it the right way I'm going to do it be doing it the new way Yeah, well, you know liz. I would just say you might not want to practice that day But it's something to think about at least There might be at least one question that there's an opportunity for you to say, you know, I'm going to I'm going to try it I'm going to be looking for it. I'll give some answers because I know that's the expectation I'm looking for the opportunity I'm I'm going to be raising my hand liz. All right, you don't say tom. I can tell by your enthusiasm And how much you're into this that you have some pretty good ideas. If you don't take me down that path. I'm going to be disappointed Tom I'm going to do that on our next call So you can just be ready Marcus we are we are at the top of the hour You are so awesome. Thank you very much for for taking this hour and sharing it with us So welcome. I will see everyone in a couple weeks. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Bye. We'll see you Monday. Um five o'clock eastern We'll limp by well, we're giving our best. Okay. Take care. Bye. Bye