 Local area are seeking a meeting with senior council officials ahead of next week's budget meeting. She discusses what they say is a major deficit in investment in the area. Issue was raised by Councillor Marie Trans Gallagher who says a number of initiatives which would benefit Western Egoal are still at strategy stage and there's a lack of money being made available particularly for tourism related projects. She says with no public leisure centre the amount of money coming into the MD is already much reduced and says that's an issue that must be discussed. These are legacy issues and I think something that we need to discuss with centre management of the council. We're delighted here for a important partner and more development on going at the minute. However we need to be ensuring that all the other towns and villages in the west of the county are getting schemes similar to that and that's the conversation we're hoping to have at a meeting with the management prior to the budget. Junkal County Council is being urged to install more dog foiling bins in letter Kenny. It comes as concerns have been raised over dog poop bags rather than being disposed of appropriately or being thrown over a hedge or left hanging on trees. 150,000 free poop scoop bags were provided by the council this year as a major to tackle dog foiling. However, Councillor Kevin Bradley says there are simply not enough bins. Don't get me wrong, they're provided 150,000 bags but not enough bins. The problem was with residents, people were thrown, they're walking past, too far to the next one. If they see a hedge or a ditch, they're throwing the bag at them across the hedge and they're hanging on trees placed if you're out walking. I do believe a few more dog foiling bins will be appropriate in the town. And plans which we'll see the introduction of a gambling regulator will go before cabinet ministers this morning. One of the main roles of the new body will be to look at the impact technology has had on the gambling industry. The Gambling Regulatory Authority of Arnhem will do this by regulating advertising, gambling websites and apps. The bill will also provide for a new approach to the licensing of gambling in Ireland. Weather now mainly dry and sunny today with light to moderate southerly breezes, highest temperatures of 10 to 12 degrees. That's all from Highland Radio News for now. We'll be back with news again at 10 o'clock. Until then, good morning. If that sounds good, so will this. Save up to 300 euro off your car insurance cover when you buy online at libertyinsurance.ie. That's based on a 25% discount for new policies. Up to 300 euro off your car insurance. That's money for living. That's liberty. Future proof. Subjects to a minimum premium and applied before optional covers. Acceptance criteria terms and conditions apply. Liberty Seguras Compañía de Seguras Eres Seguras SA. Trading as Liberty Insurance is authorized by the General Directorate of Insurance and Pensions Funds in Spain and is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland for conduct of business rules. The Ninetown Noon Show with Letter Kenny Credit Union. Now offering mortgages with life cover provided at no additional cost. Letter Kenny Credit Union 9102127. The county's number one talk show, The Ninetown Noon Show on Highland Radio. And now it's time for the talk of the Northwest, The Ninetown Noon Show with Greg Hughes on Highland Radio. And it is a very good morning too. You're very welcome along to a special edition of The Ninetown Noon Show. It is Tuesday the 15th of November. It's four minutes past nine. I'm broadcasting today live from an outside broadcast at the Clannery Conference. It is, sorry, the Clannery Hotel. It's a very significant conference. It's a defective concrete research conference with a ton of guests here. And we're going to be speaking to many of them over the next while. We have a series of panels which we'll introduce to you. We'll talk to those affected by it. We'll talk to those behind the Micah campaign and also a number of scientists with their unique insight into this to see where we're at and where we're going. It'll all unfold for you over the next three hours. So stay with us. Get involved in the conversation as well, of course. 08 660 25000. WhatsApp's and text that number. Or give us a call at 07 491 25000. You can email comments at highlandradio.com. And if you want to watch the show, including our guests on it, you can go on to our website right now, highlandradio.com. Or you can go to YouTube, Highland Radio Ireland, or any of our Facebook pages. And you can see our guests here at the Clannery all going well. And also, just after 10 o'clock, we'll have Community Guard information with Guard of Sergeant Charlene Anderson as well. So stay tuned for that. Right. OK, let's look at the newspapers this morning. See what's making the front pages. We'll skip through these today. An inquest into the death of a Churchill horse dealer who died in a suspicious circumstances is to get underway this week. Donegal Coroner, Dr. Dennis McCawley has listed the inquest into the 2012 death for Wednesday and has indicated that the inquest which will be heard at letter Kenny Cortes is expected to last five days. The Derry Journal, a simple headline, do something under which, shall we read, that in a shown woman, Rosina Daherty, has personally told Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, how people are dying due to a lack of cancer facilities in Donegal. Rosina, who lives in Clonmanee and is receiving treatment for cancer at letter Kenny University Hospital, staged a mini demonstration. As Stephen Donnelly, the minister opened a health center on Friday and urged him to update cancer services and facilities in Donegal. She had a good hearing with the minister and you can read more about it in the Derry Journal. Or you can also go on to our social media where you can catch up on an interview we did with Rosina yesterday. As you can imagine, lots and lots of coverage across all the national newspapers following the sad passing of Vicky Phelan. She passed away yesterday morning and just reading the front of the Irish Times here, Vicky Phelan refused to sell her soul for settlement. She would not accept the institutional silence and could not remain silent. Her courage captivated us. Yes, this amazing woman may have been dying but her spirit and determination was life itself. And there's, as I say, loads of quotes and pictures and coverage of the contribution that Mrs. Phelan had made. And as I say, it's well-covered in all of the papers today. We read in the Irish Independent that motor insurers have been accused of profiteering after the merge. Their profits are continuing to surge while they are passing on tiny premium cuts to motorists. While they appear to be passing on some cuts but they're still making an absolute fortune. They could do much more because the insurance in this market have now made operating profits of 730 million in the past five years alone. An enormous figure when you consider the population of the country and then you consider how many within it drive. Combined operating profits of the motor insurance in this market hit 176 million last year as the industry began to benefit from major government reform. So in other words, payouts aren't as big but they're not passing on the savings set to us so their profits grow. That's the way it's working, isn't it? In the Daily Mail today, T. Sharkemiha Martin has said Ukrainian refugees have not been included in long-term housing plans as the government does not expect the vast, vast majority to stay here. Mr. Martin was responding to revelations in this newspaper, as they say, about a dramatic underestimation of housing needs and a potential shortfall of 65,000 homes in 2030, even if the existing ambitious targets are met and somewhat ironically, whenever they talk about housing needs and emergency housing, it's never really as inclusive of the housing crisis we're facing here in Donegal with the extra crisis, of course, of people needing emergency housing and will need additional housing if houses begin to become completely unlivable for more people. And of course, whilst new houses are being repaired, if the scheme ever takes off and there's a big uptake in it. But anyway, internal documents, department records state that in reality, 42,000 new homes are needed per year when in excess of the estimated 27,000 homes, the shortfall is caused by unmet demand and population growth. And it does not include housing required for over 83,000, sorry, 63,000 Ukrainian refugees who've arrived in Ireland since February. The lighting, not fantastic in this room. I'm not gonna lie to read newspapers. I should have bought my glasses. But anyway, elsewhere in the front, sorry, inside the Irish Daily Mail, the West can avoid a new Cold War with China. Joe Biden said yesterday he played down the threat of an imminent Chinese invasion of Taiwan. After talks with Chinese Premier Xi Jinping, President Biden said the US would compete vigorously with China, but competition should never, should not veer into conflict with a battle, a proxy war of sorts, raging in Ukraine. It's good to see that relations between China and the US seem to be on steady footing at the very least. So hopefully that stays the same. We don't need any more, do we? On to the Irish Daily Star this morning, a woman begging for money outside a cathedral was arrested after complaints to Guardia Court heard yesterday. The Romanian national, who's 53, was at Letter Kelly District Court yesterday after she was arrested during 10 a.m. mass at St. Yun's Cathedral in the Donegal town. Guardia Minister Brown said they had received complaints about a woman begging in the cathedral footpath. On arrival they found Miss Callum on a sleeping bag with a paper cup and some change in her hand. Guardia Brown said she was not annoying passers-by but was arrested and taken to Letter Kelly Guarda station. Now I'm not really quite clear what she was arrested for because she doesn't seem to have been causing any bother or it's not at least stated that she was, but anyway. The Irish Sun tells us that at least 865,000 of us will benefit from five cost of living bonus payments over the next two weeks. The cash is to help people pay soaring bills. Some 370,000 households will get the 400 euro fuel allowance bonus paid out by T. Shockmehal Martin's government on three separate dates. People who receive the disability allowance will get the 400 euro lump sum on November 16th. Those getting deserted wives benefit or the invalid pension will get the bonus on November 17th. Everyone else will get it on November 18th. So many of you perhaps very anxiously waiting for that money, particularly given the time of the year. So there's some timelines for you. Let's get on to the Irish Daily Mirror. It's the last paper of the day in fact. And it tells us that an international dating site that pairs young women with wealthy older men has noted a sharp rise in the number of hard-up Irish nurses signing up. Chiefs of US-based sugardaddy.com have attributed the soaring cost of living and skyrocketing rental market to a substantial rise in registrations from Ireland over the past year. More than 5,000 so-called sugar babies, it's all very icky, isn't it, have registered to the service over the last year with numbers surging by 37% between June and September. According to newly released data, the number of cash-strapped healthcare professionals, including a substantial number of nurses, has increased by 41% more than any other sector. Typically, the average sugar daddy is aged between 35 and 55 with an above-average income, often a doctor, lawyer, or business owner. Meanwhile, sugar babies tend to be between 20 and 35 and above-average-looking. It's all really quite uncomfortable, isn't it? But anyway, they're seeing a big surge in that regard. Right, 086625,000. If you wish to comment on anything you heard there or raise your own issue, so you need something else for us to mention. 086625,000. You can also give us a call at 07491-25,000. 07491-25,000. We're very shortly going to be met or joined by our first guests on the program. These are familiar faces and voices to you. Dr. Eileen, Dr. T. Joe Morgan, and Professor Paul Dunlop will introduce them properly to you after we take this commercial break. Stay right where you are. The newspapers are courtesy of Kelly Centra, Mountaintop, Letterkenny. The Nine Till Noon Show is brought to you by Letterkenny Credit Union. Seasonal loans now available for Christmas. Apply online or via our app today and get your loan transferred directly to your current account. Look, you've heard by now that there's something major happening in the banking industry, which will mean thousands of businesses up and down the country will have to move banks. This means that as well as change in banks, suppliers and customers will need to be notified. It's certainly not something you want to leave until the last minute. So, for a step-by-step guide on moving your business banking, search Bank of Ireland Big Move. Begin. Bank of Ireland is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Since she got her free hearing aids with her PRSI at SpexSaver's, Roshin is a changed one. Music has never sounded better, and that makes her dance. And dance? And dance. Her singing, though? Yeah, well... And I've been able to make what sure is all right. Free hearing aids with PRSI at SpexSaver's. Music to your ears. Find out more online. Terms and conditions apply. Are you frequently asking others to speak slowly, clearly and loudly? Is listening to the TV or radio becoming harder? If your hearing is affecting your everyday life, Connect Hearing are here to help. Our clinics in Leicester, Kenne and Dunlowe are open Monday to Friday, where you can avail of our hearing test, wax removal and repair services. Take that first step to better hearing. Call us today on 07491-13296. Connect Hearing. Connecting you to life. Hello, Hill 16 Insurance. How can I help you? Hope to dobs. Ah, hi. I am looking for a home insurance quote. Right now, I want part of Dublin D11. I don't actually live in Dublin. Roy, they lease apart the dobs. What? I'm just looking for home insurance. Well, you're going to have to keep looking, pal, because Hill 16 is Dublin only. Do you get the feeling that your insurer doesn't want you? Well, at Local Insurance, we are Irish-owned and understand your needs. Call us today for a bespoke quote on 0818-894-444. Local Insurance, we'll get you sorted. The Local Insurance Network, DAC Trading's Local Insurance is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Local Insurance is a tide insurance intermediary of Acorn Brokerage Limited. Acorn Brokerage Limited Trading is Acorn Insurance is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Cutting Through the Spin. The Ninetal Noon Show on Highland Radio. OK, you're very welcome back to the Clannery Hotel here for this special program. We're joined by our first guests on it now, Joe Morgan, one of the organizers of this event. Joe, good to have you with us. Thanks so much for joining us. So we joined you, really. You were here anyway. But good to be here. Dr. Eileen Daharty, another organizer, of course. Eileen, good to have you on the program. Good morning, Greg. And last but not least, Professor Paul Dunlop. Right, I'll start with you, Professor, if that's all right. Why do you think this conference was needed and give us an idea of how important you believe it to be? I mean, this goes right back, actually, to 2017 when the government published its special report on defective concrete. And one of the things that they said is that they come up with the recommendations on what they thought the problem was. But they also recommended that we needed further research. And I think, going back to the end, when the scheme opened up and people started getting their homes tested in 2020, and there were all our data terriers minerals coming to the forefront in people's homes. And there was a real question mark over whether that was a problem at all. There was a lot of denial that it might even be a problem in the first place. Then we had all our people talking, going this, we can't ignore this, all our data terriers minerals are really impactful in concrete. So there has been a real need to try and get a research group looking at that aspect and to try and get to the bottom of what's happening in concrete because, as we've seen in the last story, it's been unfolding. It's certainly more complex than what originally was thought. And really, the only way that you'll ever get to the bottom of what's actually happening is to look at the detail and do detailed scientific analysis of what's happening in concrete and get the best people in the world. Did you start doing that work? Do you think in a way that the way played out, in other words, it was really quite easy, I think, for the majority of people to understand when it was defective blocks? Do you know what I mean? It was mica as part of the campaign. Do you think that it would have been better if we'd have known more of the science back at the beginning of this? Or do you think really the way things have worked, the timelines working really quite well, if that makes sense? I mean... Because as soon as you start saying, you're deleterious, and I cover this a lot, I start sort of going, right, am I be able to follow this? Defective blocks, mica, I can just deal with it. I mean, I've come to the sort of conclusion that the best way of looking at this situation is to call it a defective concrete issue because there are different factors that are playing into that. And I think that the only way we're ever going to get to the bottom of what's actually causing the defects is by doing research. Yeah, mica was an idea that came out a few years ago, and mica does impact on the quality of concrete, but there are other minerals that are in concrete that also impact very negatively as well, too. So we've got internal sulfate attack, which is a process that's well known to destroy concrete, and there's evidence of that in Donegal as well, too. But I think a simpler term is needed because it's becoming very complicated because people are talking about mica, people are talking about iron sulfides. Some people don't know what iron sulfides are, and there's just a mix up of terms. But ultimately, this is all boiling down to defective concrete products. And this all happened because of how these blocks were manufactured. Is that correct? In other words, if other practices were followed, we wouldn't be having this conversation, or is it more complex than that either? Well, for me, when I look at this issue, there are standards that have been in place for aggregates and for concrete manufacturer in Ireland because we're part of the EU. There's very clear standards there that have been around. NSAI have adopted those standards and developed their own sort of adaptation of those. And those were there for a reason, and the reason are is if people follow those guidance that we shouldn't have been here. So I know from the Pyrite Heave issue, I think maybe we could talk a little bit about that as well, too, because you've been doing some research on that. You know, there were clear statements about this should never happen again. For me, as someone who's involved in science and understanding on what we know about geology and geological minerals, if those are the main issues that are impacted on concrete and if people are following standards, guidance, and testing, this was an avoidable disaster, I think. Yeah, OK. Dr. Eileen Doherty, it's been a long journey to get to this point, and it's still, the destination is still a far way off in the distance. How significant do you think today is? Today is incredibly significant. I mean, as you say, Greg, this has been eight years, I think we've been campaigning at this point to get the best solution for all those people affected. And I think to add to what Paul said, a key element of this conference today is also to look at the societal impacts. What does that mean? It means that the actual real impact that this crisis has on families, the real crisis that this is having on commercial property owners and lots of, you know, there's lots of stakeholders in the community that are affected, and today we'll get to hear those voices. I mean, we, as advocates, have tried to communicate those issues to both local and national government over the last number of years, but today I think it's great that these families will have the opportunity to actually reflect, to convey their experiences directly to a lot of the key decision makers and stakeholders in relation to this issue. So whether they be government representatives or local community representatives or politicians or whatever it is, and I think that's incredibly significant because those voices do not get heard enough. And so I think a combination of the science part where we have to ensure that the reviewed IS-465 or the protocol that guides the assessment of these buildings is informed by the science, as Paul talks about the complete picture in terms of the multidisciplinary aspect and also Joe's session on the EU and looking at the EU directives that were not adhered to from a government level. I think this is an incredibly important day. This is the first time that anything of this nature or this size has ever happened internationally. You know, we have the best experts in the world here today to look at and examine this issue and ultimately the key aim of this conference is to find solutions. We need to start looking forward. We need to start thinking about how can we best work together. Ultimately, the people who are affected are who are here to represent and we do ensure that we do that to the best of our ability. But there's something a bit strange going on here because you say we need to, right? But that's like the royal we. This is the type of... I think I mentioned this to you, Paul, the last time I was speaking to you. This is the type of research conference or the type of... I think the government should be doing to get a full handle on this, to ensure it never happens again, to ensure that people are treated fairly in this whole process. You know, I think it's really important that it's happening, but everyone in the housing department, everyone in the construction industry, everyone who has an interest in this should be sitting at this because they are also the we, if you understand where I'm coming from. I do indeed. Myself and Jo were in the actual working group last year with the government where we represented families and one of the things that we did at that and that working group is we actually raised the issue of bringing all of these experts at that time to Ireland to have this very type of conference. We assumed that there would have been a median action by the Department of Housing and that that would have happened. Unfortunately, it didn't. So I think what happened once again is it fell to people like ourselves to sort of use our own initiative and just to make this happen. So I mean, we're almost a year since we were at the EU in Brussels with Luc Ming who kindly brought us on a delegation and this issue was raised last December and the idea was and Luc Ming has very kindly supported and worked with us over the last 12 months to not only have a seminar online hosted by the EU in March but also to bring this together today. So incredibly grateful to look to Mark, to Emma and John and the team who've actually made this happen too. Yeah, and there's a few things through this crisis that we're learning to and I think you kind of hinted towards it on a national scale is how we deal with responsibility and accountability in this country. Not just on this issue. I mean, this is an example of it but I think there's a series lessons need to be learned in that regard. Not only how we deal with this crisis but so many others. Yes, and actually Paul has kind of intimated also. My presentation today is talking about lessons learned and one of the things I've done in my presentation and I presented a paper in conference paper last week in Portugal is looking at what the Irish government should have learned from Pirate or Pirate Heave which I mean, they had their own report published in 2012 which is 10 years ago where they had a significant number of recommendations from Pirate and said these are the lessons that we have learned and we will now take these on board going forward and 10 years later, a significant number of those recommendations have not been acted upon. So we need to ensure that there is a genuine will at government level and that they're not paying lip service to this type of stuff and that actually there's a real genuine need and that they're keen to actually resolve issues such as this. Yeah, and Joe Morgan, there's a moral issue here but there's a legal issue as well, be it internally, but also Ireland in the European context as well and I mean, that's been taken up quite a bit of your focus too. Yeah, Greg, I think to Eileen and Paul's point, the conference in terms of its importance, it couldn't be overstated just in terms of keeping this issue and the crisis that we're facing in Donegal and down the Western Seaboard and beyond actually at this stage at the forefront of the area psyche. That is predominantly and foundationally why we're here. The conference itself is foundational in science and Eileen's gonna recover societal impact type areas. My own focus area has been with the EU. So that started back in December as Eileen has alluded to, where we went to the EU specifically to ask them to make sure that our government would implement EU regulation and make sure that this didn't happen again for future generations, our children and their children. Subsequent to that, and I'll go into it in a little bit more detail during the presentation of the conference, we've had a scheme pass through the door in July and that was a very pivotal moment in terms of the research that we were doing with the EU in terms of regulation because it meant that we know we have a scheme coming early next year, which is still flawed. It's still gonna lock out a significant percentage of homeowners from engaging with it and being able to remedy their homes, which is what we want to get to. Just before you get to that though, because sorry, Joe, it's flawed in the sense that people are going to be left behind. Is it going to be scientifically flawed? Do you wanna check that, Paul? At the moment, I would say yes because the whole defective concrete block grant scheme is underpinned by IS-465 protocols, now in fairness, that has to be reviewed, so NSAI are doing that review at the moment, and they are reaching out into the scientific community because myself and Andreas Lehmann and Thomas Campbell, another engineer who's been testing homes in Donegal and Mayo, we were invited and we give evidence to the IS-465 TC-63 committee who are dealing with the review, so they are reaching out and they try and understand what's happening with the... Are they truly independent? Because there is ways, if you wanted to, I'm not suggesting for a moment that anything on the hand might be happening, but there are ways you could try and keep a lid on this in terms of the scope of those findings. Well, sorry, I don't know what you mean. A financial lid on it, for instance. If you widen it out, if you widen the scheme too far out, I mean, it could go into many multiples of the reasonably conservative remediation monies we're talking already. Well, I mean, that's something for the politicians to understand. I mean, as a scientist, our main primary goal is to try and understand what's happening. So that's our... As a scientist, that's all we can do. We have a problem, we investigate it, we look at data, we produce analysis and we produce our results and we present those. All we can do is sort of go, this is what's happening and how it's fixed is up to politicians. That's why... Yeah, but after that point I was talking about, after your regard, yeah, okay. Yeah, go ahead. But just going back, you know, I mean, you asked the question about, is it a flawed system? I think that IS-465, the review will happen this year and at some point in time, that's going to catch up. But as it stands at the moment, people are getting their homes tested and in Donegal today, they're still primarily focused on Micah and then everywhere else, they're looking at high-right. But we know we have got multiple issues with defective minerals and concrete. So at the minute, that needs to catch up. All right, Joe, do you want to pick up while you're up there, sorry? Yeah, just in terms of that, Pivot, Greg, so just to summarize, our focus to date has been to look at engaging with the EU to bring them to the table to make sure that this would not continue to happen, i.e. that there would be enforcement of EU regulation pertaining to concrete product manufacture, right? Now, since July, we know we have a scheme which is going to continue to be flawed for a lot of people. So what we're now doing is changing that tact, if you like, and looking to the EU to help engage the Irish government relative to the parameters of the scheme. So that's to help the existing generation who are experiencing and impacted by defective block today. So we're looking at specifically human rights regulation and I'll be covering it in detail, but that brings in specific areas of regulation which we can connect to the issues that families are going through today. And if we get a bite in Europe and we get an acceptance there, we've only submitted the submission in October, so there's going to be a little bit of time involved. But if we get acceptance there in terms of the arguments that we're putting to them, there is a foundation for initially political pressure from the EU to the Irish government to make changes to the scheme which will be hugely impactful relative to those families which are today continue to be locked out of the scheme. Yeah, and do you think that's achievable? Greg, I have to think it's achievable because there's a lot of effort being put into it. Even people who have intimate knowledge of all of this at this point, they're just even those that might be able to access this enhanced scheme but still might find themselves having to find tens and tens of thousands of euro. I just wonder sometimes these words feel like, well, yeah, we're talking a lot, but what's actually going to change? Do you think there's room for hope? And it's very important this progresses, by the way. I'm not questioning that for a moment. No, it's a good question. Yeah, it's a good question. And look, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Any political engagement is a long-term effort, right? But I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't think there was a positive outcome possible. And the fact that we're doing it in and of itself and maintaining awareness within the EU arena, in and of itself brings a level of embarrassment relative to various governments. So that in and of itself, in terms of that political pressure will certainly help the process, right? Can I just make a quick point if you don't mind and if you'd like to add to Joe's? I think the question about, is it achievable? We were asked that for years and years and years when we were lobbying for a scheme. And people talk about the 9010 scheme being flawed, but what people very often fail to understand is that at the outset of this, there was no scheme. The Irish government had took no responsibility whatsoever. So people kept saying to me and Anne and others in the Mike Action Group, you may give up, you shall never ever get a scheme. And as Joe said, we wouldn't be doing it if we didn't think there was a possibility. And I think it's important to keep that in mind. And the reason I asked the question was because some people need to hear that again. They do, yeah, they do. Do you get where I'm coming from? Of course. I mean, is there an elephant in the room here in that, really? You know, it seems to be, if you look at the polls, the likelihood is that Sinn Fein could lead the next government. They've promised us on the moon and most of the stars it would seem. Do you use factor that in? We absolutely will welcome anything from any political party who will enhance the scheme. We are absolutely across every party. So we don't, honestly, we don't care who gets in as long as they deliver what we have been seeking for our families, which is justice and which is 100% redress. So we welcome anything that any political parties are willing to give us. Very political elements are well done, aren't they? I mean, I always go back to your very primary, sort of understanding what government's role is. And it's really set up to try and make sure it's people are safe and it has its resources so that society can thrive. So it's primary responsibility as they look after its citizens. And I think they did in terms of the fact of concrete blocks, they haven't done that. You know, they had a really good opportunity to do it in the summertime, but you saw yourself when the legislation was going through the door, every single amendment that was put forward to try and make the scheme accessible, fair, and just were totally rejected on the floor of the door. Joe, you've all talked about what's been achieved so far, which shouldn't be underestimated. It really is quite significant, but so much more to do. But that's been done with a lot of very good public messaging, great work on social media, you know, that type of stuff because there's a battle for the public's minds here. And we saw earlier this year where very senior members of the government, very clear in that, do you know what I mean? That they were trying to manage the sort of public opinion on all of this. Is it important not to lose sight of the importance of a good public relations campaign to be able to relate this very clearly to the masses, Joe? I might pass that to Aileen, given that she is our press officer. Trying to suppress her own. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Yeah, I think that's- I'll add to it. Well, thank you, Joe. Yeah, I think it's really important to have those relationships. I mean, we have created those relationships over the last eight years. We have very good relationships with the media and it's really important to communicate. I mean, I think one of the things that we find from families is that people get very frustrated that they don't know what's happening. And actually today is a really good opportunity for families to come and listen. And I think it's important to say that, to come and listen and to get a lot of those questions answered that they have. Very often we ourselves, we're volunteers, we have full-time jobs and those kind of things. And sometimes the communication is not ideal and families don't really know what's happening. So again, this event today is an opportunity for people to come along and to hear. And yes, absolutely, it's important for us to continue to have those relationships to keep that message. Yeah, Joe, on that point, just in terms of people's access to this, okay? This is a fantastic room here in the Clannery Hotel and there's lots of space. So is it not too late for people to come to this conference? And are there alternatives for people who can't actually make it here? Yeah, absolutely. We have a massive facility here at the Clannery and I'd like to thank the management of the Clannery for providing the facilities. If there are people that still want to attend, haven't yet registered, I'd encourage them to register for our own administrative purposes to understand how many are coming. But that said, if you don't register, you can still turn up, right? And then if there is people that cannot make it in person, we're also, again, through the funding from the left group and from Lukming, we have the facility live streamed starting from 1.30, that's gonna be live streamed on both Facebook and YouTube. Yeah. And just to add to that, they can drop in. So say, for example, if you look at the schedule online and you only wanna come for one session, that's okay. So don't feel as if you're committed to from 1.30 to 10 tonight. So if there's a session that suits you more, then please feel free. So we just wanna make sure that we cover and address all of your needs. Do you know what we might do? Stay where you are. I think Paul's gonna stay with us for the full hour anyway. But I just will, what I will do, Eileen with you and whoever wants to jump in as well, we'll actually run through the, what's gonna happen over the course of the day as people can dip in and out. Cause as you say, there's a lot there. And we'd hope people could consume as much of it as possible, but there's realities of life as well. Right, stay where you are, but we'll be back with more after the break. The 90 noon show is brought to you by Letter Kenny Credit Union with monster loans available up to 60,000 euro for all occasions. Visit letterkennycu.ie. Live like a Bosch at Erwin Expert Electrical. Call in store in Letter Kenny or Bancrana to view a range of Bosch home appliances from ovens, hubs to washing machines and dryers. With over 20 years experience and expert advice, make it Erwin Expert Electrical, Letter Kenny or Bancrana. Find us on Facebook. Bally Buffet is the ideal place for all your Christmas celebrations this year. You can enjoy a festive atmosphere with excellent service and outstanding food at the Villa Rose and Jackson's Hotels. We have a lively array of party nights, events and hotel packages to choose from. 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At Shane Connelly Car Sales, Dunnegal Town, our cars come fully serviced, which is all included in the price along with AA roadside assistance. Credence are accepted and we offer great finance options. But we mention the excellent customer service we offer, which is one of the reasons customers keep returning to us. Check out our social platforms or visit ShaneConnellyCars.com today. This stippler's guy is tell us why. The Euro Millions Jackbutt is an estimated 40 million euros. Play responsibly in store, in app or at lottery.ie. The National Lottery. It could be you. Watch the show live now on YouTube, Facebook and at highlandradio.com. Okay, you're very welcome back to the Clannery Hotel. We're broadcasting a special program from here today. There's a defective concrete research conference that's running. That's what I'm calling it because I can't get my tongue around the rest because it is complex and it has to be too. But we still have our guests here. We've got a couple more people joining us before 10th of the day, of course, as well. But we're gonna get an international flavor. And also we have Dr. Andreas Liemann. How important has Dr. Liemann been, Professor Donlop, to where we have gotten here now? I think he's been a real key scientist to be engaging with over the last year. He was someone who I found just by searching the sort of scientific literature on defective concrete. Andreas has been working for a long time on this. He's one of the sort of top leading scientists internationally and he's very, very highly regarded. There are people, you can talk to that today when you're interviewing them. But Andreas has been really key because his understanding of what's happening in concrete is at a very, very high level. And the laboratory systems that they have in EMPA where he works is the best in the world. For me, he kind of blew stuff out of the water in a very simple way, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Well, for Andreas, he has the knowledge that they look at the concrete in detail and has a lot of experience of understanding what the processes that are happening in concrete. And so for him, he gets very quickly analyze a piece of some of the samples that I've sent them across and had very strong conclusions and very strong scientific evidence that there was internal sulfate attack linked to pyrethite oxidizing in the concrete. So he's been, having people at that level with that credibility is really, really required, particularly when you're trying to get something like a national government, they listen to you. Can I just add to that, if you don't mind as well, not that I can talk about it from a geological point of view, but can I, I think one of the key things, I suppose, for the layperson, maybe, to understand is that Andreas has also undertaken research in the Irish context in terms of Donegal and Mayo, and he may be able to shed some light on the viability of outer leaf replacement. He also may be able to shed some light on- When you say that, is there a viability in outer leaf replacement? That's what we need to ask. That's what Andreas will be, I suppose maybe you could ask him today, but the same about foundations, and he will speak about that at the conference today, so we want to preempt what he's going to speak about. But I think having people like Andreas and Benoit and Jose and Kurt and all the other scientists that have come here at the minute, those are the kind of answers that we need. Are the propositions from the Irish government in terms of how our homes are going to be fixed, are they viable, are they reasonable? And therefore, what does the science tell us? That's one of the things I think is we're keen to find out. Joe, do you think there'll be consensus here today? Or maybe Paul, do you want to answer that one? I don't know. Do you, like in other words, have we all arrived at our opinions? Or, I mean, I would imagine there were, I don't know what they call it, at major conferences internationally, but you know, a lot of the chat goes on the night before, or sort of proxy almost. But we've an awful lot of very intelligent, scientific people here today and myself. I feel out of place. But do you think there's consensus here, or are we still working through? I think, honestly, my honest opinion is, I think we're at the start of the journey. I think we're at a place that should have been happening three or four years ago, where we've got, I mean, I was going to announce it at the conference later, but most of the people who are speaking at the conference today have been accepted to do research for the Geological Survey of Ireland as part of a tendering process that they put out last April. So we are actually going to be starting to do the research now, and hopefully now at the end of this month, the project will kick start. And we have a group of really amazing, incredible scientists who will be able to look at that. And the science that we're doing, we'll start feeding into the IS-465 review process. So I think the research that myself and Andreas has done has been the first look at it, really from a fresh set of eyes. We weren't constrained by any IS-465 protocols. We just looked at the concrete and go, what's going on here? And so we've come up with an idea of what we think is happening, but for us as scientists, we need to have a representative sample, and we need to broaden that research out, and we need to involve people who know what they're talking about. So we have some of the best people in the world who deal with foundational concrete. You'll hear from them today. We've got a massive issue in Connecticut and also over in Canada. And we've got people who have been at the forefront of developing the technology to try and understand what happens with foundation concrete. So they are now here in Ireland and they're part of a multi-frame framework agreement to do research here. So I think we're at the start of the journey, but I think within the next six, 12 months, once the government give the funding, the GSI distort the research, I think we'll get answers very quick. And I think it's worth me pointing out to listeners and those with an interest in this, that during the course of this program, we're going to try our best, but we are only scratching the surface and this has been laid out in such a way to give people who know what they're talking about a good amount of time to tease out all of this. So if you want to get across this whole thing, hopefully this is a taster for you on this program, but certainly register to either come personally or to attend online. So we'll run through briefly then between 130 and 140, that's the conference opening. And then the following hour then, that really is talking about, is it Eileen, where we are at in terms of the 9010 stroke enhancing? Exactly, yeah, the session after we open is what we call myself, Joe and Paul, call the government session and effectively that's where we have representation from John O'Connor, who's the former chief executive of the housing agency, who's also been the liaison that was appointed by the minister for housing between families and himself last year in the working group. John will bring an update on the enhanced scheme. He will talk about the legislation, what it'll look like. He will be able to talk confidently about the role of the housing agency in the new scheme, how the local authority, all those types of questions. There's a lot of confusion, there's a lot of fear around the new scheme, the housing agency coming in, the fact that people are terrified that they might not qualify for the scheme. John will be able to clarify a lot of those things, very important to listen and I think to what he has to say. We also have Martin McDermott from Donegal County Council, who's the chair of the steering committee on defective blocks. And he can talk about what's happening at the council, some of the delays and some of the key issues that we face in terms of the administration of the scheme. And then we have Damien Owens, who is the director general of Engineers Ireland, who will be able to talk about some of the challenges, maybe that engineers are facing on the ground, maybe looking at things like the expansion of the scheme to other counties, those kind of things. So that session is incredibly informative in terms of from a government level. And it's conversational as well, so it's quite engaging for the audience. And there's a lot of questions that people have and I think listeners should listen in and hopefully they should find an answer to some of the fears and concerns that they have. And that you know, over the last number of months. Okay, do you know what? After that, Paul's going to be chairing something. I don't want to eat up too much into time and then not get to some of our guests. That's my fault, by the way, because I keep going for some reason. We do too. I just don't know when to stop. So what we'll do, we'll take a break. Paul's going to stay with us for the rest of the hour. Eileen, you might get back in with us or Joe, whenever you just want to run through or pass on the information you feel might need to be done. But let's take a break as we line up our next two guests and we'll be right back with more. The Ninetill Noon Show with Letter Kenny Credit Union. Do you need to switch your Ulster Bank loan or overdraft? We are now offering competitive low-rate switcher loans and myCU current account with overdraft. Armaculla Jewelers in Letter Kenny are synonymous with fine jewelry, quality watches and giftware. With stores at Main Street Letter Kenny and the Letter Kenny Shopping Centre are online at armaculla.com. 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Okay, you're very welcome back to the programme of broadcasting live from Clannery Hotel here in Letter Kenny, head of a defective concrete research conference, which is pulling in the expertise and knowledge from a wide range of people and it is truly international. We're joined by two of these experts now. First, we'll say good morning to Professor Jose Dichesne. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, good morning. Can you talk to me, please, about the work that you're doing in your country and what we might be able to learn from that, Professor? Yeah, we had an issue with Paratite and defective concrete in Trois-Riviers in the area of Quebec. And since 2010, we have a research project working on an effort to develop a quality control protocol to evaluate the potential reactivity of aggregate prior to their use in country. Go ahead. We have a big issue with that and for Canadians, it's important that it will be the only case and that in the future concrete will be of better quality. So you're here really, we can learn from you but this is a learning exercise for you as well, isn't it? I mean, how surprised were you to learn of the extent of a problem with defective concrete in Ireland? Yes and no. Because we had the same problem in Canada because we know that some cases were with Paratite were observed in the literature previously but each time it's a new problem, it's sometimes long to discover the problem because it's not so easy to detect the Paratite first and the damage that can cause Paratite because a small amount of Paratite can destroy a complete concrete structure. Do we need to understand more about... What I'm trying to get out here is, can all of these problems you think be avoided using the current practices of how we make concrete? I think we can avoid it but with a good quality control on the aggregate and this is not an easy way because it's really complex and aggregates are... There's a lot of different type of aggregates used and we need a good quality control. What has been the reaction from the authorities in Canada to the problem with defective concrete blocks there? We are working with the standardisation process and Benoit can speak more about this because it's involved in the process of the standardisation. Let's bring Benoit in, Professor Benoit Fournier. Good morning, you're very welcome to Ireland. Everywhere I've turned over the last week, I've been meeting people from Canada. It's like half of Canada is here. It's not just here but everywhere but it's lovely and you're all lovely people. What has been the reaction to this? I'm trying to figure out at what stage of your journey you are on in Canada. Basically, when the first cases were recognised, it appeared to be a surprise at the time in a sense but we did have in the Canaanese Standard some statements saying that if you use aggregates that contain certain mineral types, including paratite, that you may get into trouble and you may have some durability issues. So it was included in our standard but it may be there but at the same time when you have not necessarily noticed that to the extent that it developed in Tuarevier then it came as a sort of a surprise at first but then cases kept accumulating and people got to work and understand what was happening and all sorts of experts from different consulting companies were involved because it went to court and then with the work of those experts, a number of different possible explanations for the mechanisms got mentioned and at the end all the scientists and the engineers involved actually converged towards the end result which was the implication of paratite. Can I ask you, are you confident that things have changed in Canada to the point whereby defective blocks, defective concrete products are no longer being manufactured? We, yes, I think at this time, we have in our standards, and as Jose was mentioning, when we had the research started in 2010, quite shortly after that, we have a process of standardization. It's a five-year cycle in Canada where we actually update our standards every five years and the committee working on concrete standards in Canada is composed of about 50 people, engineers and researchers from different parts of the country and that right, I would say, towards 2012, 2014, we were able to introduce in our standard an appendix explaining what was the problem and mentioning about what are the potential solutions and then after the result of a PhD candidate, our research actually was incorporated in Canadian standard as a new testing protocol for aggregates in order to make sure that it won't happen anymore in the future. And Professor Jesne, you would have seen some of the images and heard the conversation about how these defective materials are affecting Irish homes. Is that the similar experience in Canada? Are these homes deteriorating to the point where they're no longer liveable? Oh yeah, but in Canada, the cases were really fast. Some buildings were completely cracks after three to five years. And in Quebec, we have a warranty for new houses, five years warranty. Then for those with problems in the first five years, they completely replace the foundation. But in Canada, it's not concrete blocks. It's a poor foundation. Okay, that's interesting. Okay, yeah. And it's just the foundation because we use wood structure for the rest of the houses. Then they just lift up the houses, completely demolish and replace the foundation. I mean, Paul, that's interesting, isn't it? Because I'm gonna be speaking to Andreas a little later on on this. But I mean, we can probably look elsewhere already to see where we're going. Yeah, well, I mean, one of the issues that we have in Ireland, as you know, is that the protocol at the moment ignores foundations. We don't test foundation concrete. Well, already a lot of government representatives seem convinced that foundations could never fail. Well, I always find that quite an incredible statement, particularly because when you look internationally, what's happening with foundation concrete in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and also in the draw Riviera in Quebec, we know that very high grade, high strong, high strength concrete that has a pirateite in aggregate can completely destroy it. And this is as well known. Paul, this is what takes me back to the earlier part of the hour where I said to you, at some point, are they going to try and keep a lid on this? Because if you start talking about foundations, will outer leaves go out the window? Do you? Yeah, I mean, I know what you mean. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, sure, sure. But you know, like the way I approach it from a scientific point of view is basically we need to try and find out what the mechanism of failure is. You don't develop a scheme on an assumption that there's a problem and then try and work backwards because the scheme is going to be flawed from the very beginning. So I think from a few years ago, this type of work should have been done. They should have been testing concrete foundations. And I've said, you know, I mean, the foundations might be okay. They might be totally fine, but we don't know. And it's totally flawed, the mechanism assumption that they will be by just tapping and tapping the concrete or I mean, we heard it in the doll in the pre-legislative scrutiny day that people were engineers were saying, well, they look fine. Well, there was no crack in driveways and similar concrete. Yeah, well, that's not good enough. You know, we know from an international context that very high grade quality concrete using foundations in Canada is completely turning into mush at a very rapid time scale. So I think it's wrong for Ireland to be thinking the same. Well, we can't presume. We can't presume. We do the research, everything based on science. Yeah, we do the research. That should be starting as of now. It's important, isn't it Professor Fournier that we get this right, that we understand it. I think it's in everyone's interest that this is all out in the open now. We research, we understand, and we do the right thing and prevent this happening again into the future. Well, that's the very critical part and that was the driving force for us in the Canadian Standard Committee to make sure that this won't happen again. And so that's why we implemented the results of the research rapidly in the standards. It's still, at this time, our recommendations are still not mandatory because we still need in the testing scheme of aggregates to do some work to make sure that all laboratories carrying on the testing across the country actually do the things right because it's nice to test aggregate material but if you do it wrong, you're not in better position. It's complex, isn't it? It's complex, yes. And do you know what I think the comments from both of you, it's going to be fascinating to hear more from you up there because as I said earlier on, we can only scratch the surface and I think we've an awful lot to learn from your knowledge and your experience as well. It's been lovely having the two of you this morning. I really appreciate it. As I say, we really look forward to listening to more of you from you later. That was the voice there of Professor Jose Du Chesney and also Professor Benoit Fournier and we'll be back and of course, we speak so often to Paul. I forgot, I don't even thank him anymore, it's fine. Now, but listen, of course, Paul, of course, as always, thank you very much indeed. All right, we've got so much more coming up over the next couple of hours for you on this topic but also we have community guard information as well. So stay tuned for all of that. We'll be back after the news and obituary notices. Live on air, online and on the Highland Radio app. This is Highland Radio News. Good morning, I'm Achille Clark with the news at 10 o'clock. Professor Paul Du Nois believes that a fact of concrete block issue was unavoidable disaster. A three-day research event you examine Micah and other deleterious materials in concrete blocks gets underway today with the conference in Latterkenny. A number of leading international experts will speak about their own research and meet local engineers, officials and homeowners. Tomorrow the international delegation will visit affected homes in Donegal while in Thursday they will attend a workshop at Ulster University to strengthen research networks and discuss future research plans. Speaking on the 9 to 9 show ahead of today's conference, Professor Dunlop says if guidelines and regulations were followed, homeowners wouldn't be in this situation. When I look at this issue, there are standards that have been in place for aggregates and for concrete manufacturer in Ireland because they're part of the EU. There's very clear standards there that have been around. NSAI had adopted those standards and developed their own sort of adaptation of those. And those were there for a reason and the reason are is if people follow those guidance that we shouldn't have been here. Searches are resuming this morning in the Twin Tines for a missing woman. The Guardia are conducting the search with assistance from Foyle Search and Rescue. The Coast Guard Rescue 118 helicopter spent time searching the area around the river fin last evening before being stood down as light faded. A special workshop is to be held next week to investigate claims fraud beggars are being bossed into Leicester, Cannae. They can hairlock off the Leicester, Cannae Mill for municipal district last week. A real serious concerns over reports those purporting to be beggars are intimidating people. The workshop next week will involve Dunningall County Council, Guardia, St. Vincent de Paul, social welfare representatives on the Simon community. And so Donald Mandi Kelly says it's important to differentiate also between people who genuinely may need help. Do believe as well that this may not all be broad that there are some genuine cases out there as well. And that's something I really want to get to the bottom of as well. As after as genuine people out there that's struggling I want to do everything in my power as a local representative to help them as well. But if this is broad that's going on as well it's something that we need to sit down and have this conversation about it The Foreign Affairs Minister says accommodating Ukrainian refugees is putting Ireland under a lot of strain. Let us see as so figures show more than 62,000 Ukrainians have fled to Ireland since the start of the Russian invasion. 4,441 Ukrainian refugees are currently being hiced in Dunningall. Nearly 7,000 refugees are living in private accommodation across the country and almost a quarter of hotels are now being used by the state to hide Ukrainian refugees. Minister Simon Kovne says we need to keep playing our part in helping people flee the war. And it puts the Irish system under a lot of strain in terms of accommodation, in terms of education, in terms of healthcare, in terms of social support. We know that, but this is something that every European country is trying their best to offer solidarity towards Ukraine on and Ireland should be no different. Dunningall County Council is being urged to install more dog filing bins in Leicester County. It comes as concerns have been raised over dog poop bags rather than being disposed of appropriately or being thrown over a hedge or left hanging on trees. 150,000 free poop scoop bags were provided by the council this year as a measure to tackle dog filing. Our councillor Kevin Bradley says there are simply not enough bins. Don't get me wrong, they're provided 150,000 bags. There's not enough bins. The problem is with residents, people are stoned. They're walking past the two parts of the next bin that they see a hedge or a ditch. They're throwing the bag at them across the hedge and they're hanging on trees based if you're out walking. I do believe a few more dog filing bins will be appropriate in the town. It's hoped Ireland will host seven games off the Euro 2028 tournament. Ministers are signing off on a joint bid with the UK to bring the championship here in six years' time. Under the plan Ireland would host up to seven games between the Avivia Stadium and Croke Park. It's hoped the event would attract 120,000 football fans to Ireland and bring in hundreds of millions for the economy. Environment Minister Eamon Ryan thinks it would be great for Irish football. I think a successful European championships would give a boost to soccer in the country and help us get the facilities right across the country. We saw that in the past, back in the glory days of Jack Jordan and so on. Events like that, when there's real success in the national interest in the whole tournament, that actually helps the sport. Whether I'm mainly dry and sunny today, with light to moderate southerly breezes, highest temperatures of 10 to 12 degrees. That's all from Highland Radio News for now. We'll be back with an update again at 11 o'clock. Until then, good morning. The obituary notices for this Tuesday morning, November the 15th. The death has occurred of Robert Bob McLaughlin, 102 Westway Derry. Funerally being heads home to Moore Morning at 20 past 9, going to St Mary's Church, Cregan, for recreation mass at 10 o'clock, while by interment in St Mary's Cemetery, Ardmore. Family flowers only place donations in lieu of wish to Macmillan cancer support. The death has occurred of Jim Kelly, Capri Ballet Buffet, and formerly Ard McCarran Ballet Buffet, opposing at his family home. Funerally leaving his residence at half past 10 to Moore Morning for recreation mass at 11 o'clock, in the Church of Mary and Maclistian Order, interment afterwards in Drumbo Cemetery. The recreation mass will be streamed live via the parish webcam. The house is private to family, friends, and neighbors. Family time from 9 o'clock tonight and before the funeral tomorrow. The death has taken place of Josie Doherty, Ney O'Connor, to Caseman Place Straban, proposing at her home. Funerally leaving her home to Moore Morning at 25 past 10 for recreation mass in the Church of the Immaculate Conception Straban at 11 o'clock, interment afterwards in Straban Cemetery. Donations in lieu of flowers placed to Melmite Manor Residence Comfort Fund care quickly funeral directors. The recreation mass can be viewed live via the parish webcam. The death has taken place of Lori Faulkner, Ney Hothorn-Heith Letter-Kennie, who remains opposing at his home. Funerally leaving her home to Moore Morning at 10 o'clock, interment afterwards in St. Junans Cathedral Letter-Kennie, burial afterwards in Commonwealth Cemetery. Funerally leaving her home to Moore Morning at 25 past 10 for recreation mass in the Church of Mary and Maclistian Order, family flowers only. Donations if desired to the Alzheimer Society of Ireland care of any family member. The death has occurred of Liam Doddy, 20 Derry Bay Avenue Letter-Kennie, proposing at his lead residence. Funerally from there this morning going to St. Junans Cathedral for 11 o'clock recreation mass, which can be viewed on ChurchServices.tv, followed by interment in Commonwealth Cemetery. Family time please before the funeral. Flowers welcome or donations anew to the Donegal Hospice, Care Pascal Blake Funeral Director. The death has occurred of Susan Ward, Ireland's Burton porch, who remains a opposing atterly at residence. Rosary tonight at 9 o'clock, funeral mass to Moore Morning at 11 o'clock in St. Columbus Church Acres, with interment afterwards in Critch Cemetery. House private please after the rosary and also on the morning of the funeral. The death has occurred of Sealy McManaman, Donegal Road Polly Buffet, remains a opposing atterly at residence. Funerally from there this morning at half past 10, for recreation mass in the Church of Mary and Mark Lister-Nawler at 11 o'clock, interment afterwards in Drumbo Cemetery. The recreation mass will be streamed live via the parish webcam. Family time before the funeral today. The death has occurred of Maj Brine, name Martin, 223 St. Junans Terrace-Refaux, who remains a opposing at her home. Family time please on the morning of the funeral. Funerally from her late residence this morning at half past 10, for 11 o'clock recreation mass in St. Junans Church-Refaux, while by interment in the adjoining cemetery. The funeral mass can be viewed live online via the parish webcam. On the death has occurred of Eileen McGee, Ned Rhea, Glentian Manor Letter Kenny, formerly from Gola Island, Cochin, Derrybeg and London. Funerally mass at St. Mary's Church Derrybeg this morning at 11 o'clock, with burial afterwards in Mahara Gaon Cemetery. Family flowers only please, donations only if so desired, to the Donegal Hospice, care of John McGee and sons at Funeral Directors, or any family member. For more details, including any family health guidelines for wigs and funerals, please go to HeinanRadio.com. On YouTube, Facebook and at HeinanRadio.com. And a very good morning to you. You're very welcome back to the programme. All good morning if you are just joining us. We're broadcasting today live from the Clannery Hotel. It is part of previewing a special conference which takes place later today on defective concrete research. It's a very extensive conference that's covering all elements of this crisis, the human impact, the social impact, the scientific side of it as well. There are still spaces for those of you who wish to attend this conference in the Clannery. And you can also watch it online. It kicks off at 1.30 with an opening of the conference by the hosts and organising committee. And then there's lots coming up over the course of the day. We'll run through some of that a little later on. Just to remind you, you can watch the show on our website, HeinanRadio.com. Click, watch live, or go to YouTube, Ireland. Good morning to all of you watching us there. And also across our Facebook pages where you'll be able to see and interact with our guests feel free to comment on our socials or text in as some of you have already. We'll be doing the community garden information item for you very, very shortly. But some of your comments coming in here is the housing minister or any government representatives at this Micah conference today, which is an important question of course. Please ask if anything is going to be done about the payment for testing. I know my house has it, but I can't afford the 6,125 euro to test. Well, we understand that once the new scheme comes into effect early next year if the timeline is stuck to, you will have to pay, I think I was told something like four or 500 euro for a preliminary inspection by an engineer. If they deem there's a possibility that you could have Micah, the government or the scheme will pay. It comes out of the total of course if you are accepted onto the scheme. But at that point then you wouldn't have to find the 6,000 plus euro that it would be paid for you. Greg, is the government going to give the working middleman something towards the heating or fuel to keep warm this winter, throwing it all to the social welfare person? We all lit a fire inside of 400 euro. Why not give 200 euro to everyone to test the body, understand where you're coming from. What's going on in Leicester, Kenny it's almost seems as if the town is hell bent on self-destruction. Why are elected reps and officials not being held to account of the utter traffic chaos in the town? Well, I hope you understand if you listen to this programme regularly, I try to hold people to account. I try to highlight where the problems are, but yet they persist. I don't know what the story is going on there. Another quality says, hi Greg, fortunate beggars are in look to are often struggling to get by themselves. Also, they're rubbing from those people who desperately need help. If this isn't a crime I don't know what is. That's a general comment, which I think was a reference to a comment I made, whereas it wasn't clear why people were being arrested on what grounds, because I didn't see it outlined and I was curious as to what it was. It was not to say they shouldn't have or whatever, I just didn't know on the what grounds. Okay, it is time to take a break. Stay with us. Thank you to God information is on the way, but first we'll take the bingo numbers and a break, and then we'll be right back here live from The Clannery. Stay tuned. It's time for NCBI Bingo on Highland Radio. It's Tuesday the 15th of November. You're playing on the brown sheet. The reference number is as 7. It's game number 46. The numbers are 28, 76, 66, 19, 2, 90, 43, 29, 6, and finally, 63. 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It's a brand new product from the United Kingdom. It's a brand new product from the United Kingdom. It's a brand new product from the United Kingdom. Shared in 99% Sheridan Security, 911-26025 Good morning. You're welcome back to the Community Garda information item for this Tuesday, November 15 and we are joined here this morning by Garda Sardran, Charlene Anderson. thanks very much for joining us. Good morning, Greg, how are you? We'll get straight to it, Charlene. Gardi are looking for the public's help on the Remelton Road in Letherkenny. That's correct, Greg. Gardier investigating a fatal road traffic collision involving two vehicles that occurred at approximately 11, 55 p.m. on Wednesday the 9th of November on the Remelton Road in Letherkenny. Now the front seat passenger, one of the vehicles, a female in her late teens was pronounced dead at the scene. The male drivers, both of which were taken to Letherkenny Hospital with serious injuries. So we're appealing for any witnesses this morning to the collision, to come forward, any road users who may have dash cam footage and was traveling on the Remelton Road in Letherkenny between 11.30 p.m. and midnight. We'd ask them to make that footage available to Gardier. And also anyone that has any information in relation to the incident to contact Gardier in Letherkenny on 0749167100, Greg. Okay, and there is also an appeal as it relates to an RTC in Fawn. That's correct. So Gardier in Bunkrana are investigating a serious injury road traffic collision. And this occurred in Fawn at approximately 9.10 p.m. on Thursday, the 10th of November on the R238 in Fawn Village. Now in this particular accident, five people were taken to hospital, one of whom has serious injuries. So we're again appealing this morning for any witnesses to come forward in relation to the incident. We have any road users who may have dash cam footage and was possibly traveling on the R238 between Bunkrana and Bridgend between 8.30 p.m. and 9.30 p.m. We'd ask them to come forward and make that footage available to us. They can contact us at Bunkrana and guard the station on 9320540. Or they can also contact the Guard of the Confidential Line on 1800666111. Okay, again this week, we are putting out a number of appeals as it relates to burglaries. That's correct, Greg. The first one is Gardier in Letterkenny are investigating a burglary that occurred in Glenwood Park, Letterkenny between 9.30 a.m. on Saturday, the 15th of November and 10.30 a.m. on Tuesday, the 8th of November. Now in this particular burglary, the rear door of the house was forced open and entry was gained. A number of items were stolen from the property, including a 40-inch flat-screen TV, a smaller-style television, a baseball bat, and some darts. So we'd appeal to anyone who may have observed any suspicious activity in that particular area that's Glenwood Park in Letterkenny to contact R.D. on 0749167100. Yeah, and you mentioned a second burglary in that area. That's right, so there is a second burglary that occurred in that area of Glenwood Park between 4.30 p.m. on Friday, the 4th of November and 7.30 a.m. on Monday, the 7th of November. Now damage was caused to the lock on the door of a property and entry was gained. In this particular burglary, a tile cutter was stolen from the property. So again, we just appeal to residents in the area who may have observed any suspicious activity in around the Glenwood Park area and that's from the 4th of November, right through into the 8th of November, sometimes even just a small nugget of information, Greg, something that people might feel that's maybe irrelevant, but it could possibly be something that could help us with this type of investigation. Really important to emphasize that and you have in the past, Ed, don't sort of triage this information yourself, don't think you're wasting guard of time. It could be the final piece of a jigsaw that makes sense to, as part of a wider line of investigation. Absolutely, and again, like the Guard of the Confidential Line is there, if somebody doesn't want to come to the Guard of the Station, if they don't want to call into any of their local Guard of the Stations, if they call the Confidential Line and that number is 1800-666-111 and that information will be passed on to us and we'll progress the investigation. All right, another burglary, very sadly, targeting St. Bethan's Church in St. Johnston. That's correct, so on the 11th of November, between the areas of 11 a.m. and 4.30 p.m., the door of the secrecy at St. Baden's Church in St. Johnston was forced open and a small amount of cash was stolen from the property. So again, we'd ask if anyone observed any vehicles or any people that may have been in the area that may have given rise to suspicion in around the church, maybe on that date, that's the 11th of November, just to make contact with Gary Dian letter Kenny. Okay, and our last appeal as it relates to a burglary, this time in Carrigan's Main Street. That's right, so a burglary took place at a house at Main Street Carrigan's on Friday the 11th of November, between 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. It's believed that entry was gained through an unlocked door. Now six gold rings were stolen and four gold chains. So one of the rings is a gold cladda ring. Then there's two gold rings that have cladda, sorry, excuse me, that have Celtic writing and patterns and the other gold rings were like playing bands. So the gold chain also has a Celtic design pendant attached to it. Now we will post similar pictures on our Gary the Facebook page later on and I do stress that they are similar pictures, it's not actual pictures of the items, but we would ask if anyone has any information or maybe if they're approached in the next couple of weeks when they approach to Christmas to buy items of this nature, to contact us at Letter Kenny Gare the station. And just in regards to, I know we've mentioned a number of burglaries this morning Greg, but there is that Gary the Property app. It's a free app, it's there for people. If they are buying items coming up to Christmas, they can upload their receipts, they can take pictures of those items and they can also report the theft of items through the app to ourselves. So just to make people aware of that because it is a free app. And we'll probably talk about it in the future episodes too, Charlene. But we are getting to the point where people might be out shopping, buying high-valued goods, put them into the boot of the car, go into the next shop, buying more stuff and we know there will be people out and about tracking what people are doing. Do you know what I mean? So we really have to be on our high guard now always, but particularly as we approach Christmas. Absolutely and it's really for people to be vigilant. You know, try and keep items out of sight, out of mind is what we would say. And again, look, high value items, try and take pictures of them if you can. It will help us in the event that something like this will occur. As I said, that property app is free. A lot of these crimes are opportunistic crimes and you know, someone sees an opportunity and they just decide whether to break into that car or just enter that property. So again, just asking people to be vigilant, that's all. Guardi worked hard to build up trust with the community and unfortunately some people are seemingly exploiting that bogus callers posing as Guardi. It's not an exclusive Donegal problem. Tell us what's going on. Absolutely. So we've received a report from our colleagues down the country. Now, as I said, it hasn't happened here yet, but down the country that there is bogus callers posing as Guardi and they're targeting elderly people's homes in a money scam. So criminals such as these can strike in any part of the country. So look, it hasn't happened up here as we're aware of yet, but that's not to say that it won't happen. So it's just asking people to be vigilant, that's all. And to contact their local Guardi the station or indeed, I suppose any Guardi the station, but the 24 hour ones here is letter Kenny, Milford, Bunkran and Bali Shannon. If something like this, if someone calls to their door, maybe reporting to be a member of a Guardi the Shia Kona, ask them for their identification. If they're not sure, if they're in doubt, don't open the door, make that call and maybe we'll be able to clarify the situation over the phone. Also Guardi can do welfare checks, they can call out properties. If somebody has experienced this, that somebody has called to their house, maybe selling goods or purporting to be somebody that transpires that they're not, we can always check that out. Yeah, okay. And I mean, the Guardi Facebook page is a very valuable resource. A lot of information there and the telephone numbers that you mentioned as well, for the 24 seven Guardi stations will be listed there as well as the pictures and what have you and this item will be posted there later on as well. So you know, I mean obviously in terms of bogus callers, in terms of burglaries, it's the basics, the fundamentals, but the very important that we don't let our guard down in terms of your home security, who you open the door for, even those little cat's locks can be very valuable. I mean, we can be polite, some of us can be too polite. We don't have to entertain people if we feel nervous about it or we don't know them. We don't have to entertain them. Absolutely, and if in doubt, keep them out, that's what we would say. And but I suppose in general, it's the same guidelines that we would always issue. You know, just be mindful, doors and windows ensure that they're locked, particularly if you're leaving the property, just double check that your windows and doors are locked. Ensure that, you know, your property, maybe if exterior light might help as a deterrent, I would also encourage maybe neighbors if they live in close proximity to elderly and vulnerable people, just maybe keep an eye on them. You know, the nights have got a lot darker at the evenings. We would also say about CCTV. I know it's not practical, I suppose maybe for everybody, but at the same time, if they have CCTV at their property, it does help and it does act as a deterrent. You know, and again, as you said, about the locks for the door, the chains that you can put on, you know, they're very valuable as well, because you don't have to open the door completely. You can just put your chain on and open it, see who they are, and maybe, you know, get identification from them if you're in any way doubtful at all. Also, there's panic alarms. We have something up on our Guy the Facebook page at the minute, just the process of obtaining those panic alarms. In some circumstances, they are free and they're issued to elderly and vulnerable persons. Okay. Right, now, the Goddess Centenary celebrations continue. There's a local exhibition? That's correct, Greg. So there's an exhibition of Guy the memorabilia, and that will open on Monday as part of the celebrations to commemorate the centenary of the foundation of on Guy the Sheikana. So the exhibition will take place at the Donegal County Museum at High Road to Lesher County from Monday the 21st to November until Thursday the 24th, and it will feature Guy the uniforms and the history of on Guy the Sheikana. It's free of charge and it's open to the public, and if anyone would like to attend, we'd encourage them to go. My father used to make Guy the uniforms by hand. Brilliant. I wonder, will any make the exhibition? Right, okay, let's get, it's free by the way, open weekdays, 10 a.m. to 4.30 p.m. Just a couple of questions here. Read the marking of property in case of thieves. Can I ask the guarder to call to my home to mark things, how do I go about getting my belongings marked for safety? Now, I don't know, I'm presumed maybe that it could be a case by case basis, but it's a lot to ask if we're going to go out to each individual property. But what's the official line on that question? Well, just as I said there, Greg, I'm sure sometimes it's probably not always practical to call to everyone's house to mark their property, but we do have property marking events and they take place all over the county. There is community police and members trained in Ballishanen, Letter Kenney, Milford and Bunkrana, and I know in the Bunkrana district we've held at least five events over the summer. They are advertised on the Guard of the Facebook page. In relation to this query, I don't know where this person is residing. Perhaps if they want to contact their local Guard of the Station we could put them in touch with the community police unit and maybe we'll inform, it's not that maybe we will inform them of the upcoming property marking events maybe over the Christmas period. And as I said, look, if it's a small item, if they want to take it into the station, something like a phone or that, that can be done at the Guard of the Station. Now, if it's a tractor or a trailer, that may be at an event such as a co-op or something. When you're local Guard of the Station, they'll work with you. That's it, we'll try our best to accommodate people where possible. Finally, what could be done about a horse animal that keeps breaking out and causing damage to property? It happens weekly and the owner says this listener has done nothing to make it stop. Okay, well there's two elements to this. So if the damaging question has been caused on private property then it is a civil matter and we'd encourage the listener to seek some legal advice. However, if the animal in question is damaging property in the public place, or is endangering road users or pedestrians, then it is a matter for ourselves and we'd urge them to get in touch with us and we'll follow that up. Okay, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for calling down to us here at the Clan Rea. I really appreciate it. That was Guard of Sergeant Charlene Anderson and that item will be available for you to watch on our Facebook page and the Guard of the Station on our Facebook page a little later on as well. But for now, we'll take a break and we'll be back more from the defective concrete research conference taking place here at the beautiful Clan Rea Hotel. That's after these messages. The Community Guard information slot is brought to you by Sheridan Security Systems, protecting what you value most. 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Tickets now on sale from Hotel Reception and online at Eventbrite. That's Monday the 5th of December at the Mount Derrigal Hotel. This December the 23rd, you could own a brand new car worth 30,000 euros. What's the deal? Highland Radio is giving away a brand new Nissan Duke SUV worth 30,000 euros. Someone, and a Cougar, will get a call from Greg Hughes on the 9 to Noon Show on December the 23rd. You just own a car? Yes, steady on, that could be you. If you've got the lucky ticket, simply go to HighlandRadio.com, click on the car link, answer an easy question, and buy a ticket for 10 euros, 6 for 50 euro, or 10 for 80 euro. Highland Radio's great car giveaway. Surprise, surprise. Get your ticket now. Okay, you're very welcome back. As we look forward to a defective concrete research conference taking place here in the Clan Reh Hotel, just to remind you that you can still register to attend, and there's the option also to dip in and out on an online basis if you wish. But it is truly an international conference, and there is that international flavour to it. And that's underlined now by our next guests. We're joined by Dr. Andreas Lehmann. We're also in the company of Nick Skaglione, and also Dr. Kurt Astley. Good morning, all of you, and thank you so much for joining us. You're welcome. I'll start with you, Dr. Andreas Lehmann, and people will know that you're group leader of the Concrete Technology, EMPA, Swiss Federal Laboratories for Materials, Science and Technology Switzerland. And you've really become a big part of our story here. Now, how did that happen, Andreas? Well, actually, I was on holiday in the Swiss South, and I got an email from Paul Dunlop, who asked me how do we deal with mica in Switzerland, and he told me about the mica crisis you have here, and I asked him, well, I can't say anything about this. Do you have documents? Please send them. So he sent them to me, I looked at them, and I had to say, this sounds fishy to me. Can you please organize me some samples from affected houses, best from areas that are more strongly deteriorated and weakly deteriorated, so they get an overall image? So he sent these samples, and I did a microstructural analysis using electron microscopy and elemental analysis, and then the case was clear for me because I clearly saw a pyrothite oxidation with sulfur release and the sulfur that was released reacts with the cement paste, causing expansion in the first phase and in the second phase, strength loss. This is linked to the formation of secondary sulfate minerals. What is happening in the manufacturing process that makes this a problem? The problem in the manufacturing process is that the components, which means the aggregates, they contain this iron sulfate, this pyrothite, and when you start with such aggregate, you have the danger to cause this pyrothite oxidation and internal sulfate attack. Okay. Now, we heard from Canadian guests a little earlier on their problem was foundation-based. We're still having that conversation here. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on outer leaf. You know the layout, the problems of that. That means the inner leaf could still be, will still be made with bad blocks effectively. We have these bison floors very heavy, you know, that people might be using, and they're also sitting on foundations. And you were part of the recent conversation in Dublin. Many poo-pooing the notion that foundations could be affected. In your professional opinion, as much as we know right now, outer leaf, just repairing an outer leaf, is that going to make a home safe for the future? This is a big question. And to answer this in depth, we have to look at new research. Because you know, you have actually another process, a part of pyrothite oxidation internal sulfate attack. And this is carbonation. Concrete takes up CO2 from the atmosphere and the cement hydrates get so-called carbonated. If you have carbonation proceeding very fast and sulfate attack relatively slow like it is in the inner leaf, you have less potential for expansion and cracking. And in the outer leaf, you have favorable conditions for pyrothite oxidation, less favorable for carbonation. That's why the outer leaf is more damaged than the inner leaf. But I would not say that the internal leaf cannot be damaged. I know of a particular case where the outer leaf has been replaced and now the inner leaf starts to crack. And this is the problem when an engineer is expected to sign off on something. Can they do that with the knowledge that there are examples whereby the inner leaf has failed? In terms of the foundations here with the problems that we're dealing with is how tightly the product is compacted. Is that favorable to the foundations not failing, for example? Well, you know, if you have a dense concrete, the reaction will proceed surely slower. For example, in Connecticut, the real problems started after 20 years as I've learned from Nick. So we have no clue at all what is the case with the Irish foundations. Of course, it's very important that how moisture can access your foundations because moisture is the engine to promote this internal sulfate attack. And we've seen houses where there was problem with dump-proof coursing or there's other external elements that could allow moisture. Is it relevant? Is there a lifespan that we should expect? Because you're talking about after 20 years, you know? I mean, realistically, we can't expect, can we, for us to be indemnified for the quality of our house for eternity? Do you know what I mean? Is there a reasonable lifespan that we could sort of stop complaining after a certain amount of time if it starts to deteriorate, if you understand? It can't be open-ended either. We have to recognize that, I suppose. Well, it's very difficult to give a specific timeline because you have quality variations in the concrete blocks and you have variations in the composition. So there can't be just a certain timeline. Anyway, if your inner leaf is completely carbonated, the danger of expansion and cracking is reduced. But I have to mention, I mean, this is an important thing. The last time I was here, I was back in March, I think, the boundary condition has changed somewhat because at this time we just looked at four houses. But now we had access to a data collection of the A-group of Thomas Campbell and they have more than 91 houses or 90 houses in their database. And this shows that the majority of the inner leaves exhibit cracks too. Before I bring in our next guest, finally, as a scientist, does it frustrate you when you hear people, especially maybe politicians or decision-makers, suppose about a situation, you know, and presume that, well, that can't be a problem because I've seen evidence. But you're looking at this from a very scientific level. We have to truly put our egos to one side or our opinions to one side. We have to follow the science here. That includes scientists as well as homeowners, as well as government officials. Yeah. Well, I'm actually pretty frustrated how this thing here is running because, I mean, I'm a very rational person that claims that there is a swelling of mica due to moisture uptake. There is free soil problems. There are wetting, drying cycles problems. But these were all claims. I haven't seen any scientific evidence. I'm a scientist. I don't want to exclude anything, but I would like to be convinced by scientific evidence. And it's clear internal sulfate attack in the Donegal Homes is a proven fact. It's interesting how it's not. And it has to be evidence-based because we're talking billions of euros of taxpayers' money here. Nick Skaglione is a HIO geologist and president of concrete research and testing at CRT. Nick, very welcome to Ireland. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Okay, so what has been happening in America? Well, the problem in there has started. I got involved in about 2008. It started with a single quarry in Connecticut. And I first got involved mostly doing work for insurance industry. They're showing a significant amount of cracking in these residential foundations. This one quarry was delivering concrete for all the residential foundations in the area. And after about 20 years, it started receiving pretty severe cracking distress in these foundations. And doing a petrographic analysis to determine it was from the oxidation of the puritate. Sorry. It's okay. No, you're doing great. Is that similar to what we're seeing here, Nick? But not in the foundations yet because we haven't really got to that point. But in terms of what's happening, the chemical reactions is the problem similar. Does it say at this point we're seeing it in these concrete blocks that we use? Yeah, it's a different type of aggregate. But the amount of puritate in the U.S. concrete is higher. But there's definitely, you know, puritate also in this aggregate that's been used here in the blocks. And the analysis that I've seen on the looking at the cores that were received from here in Donegal, is obvious oxidation, in situ oxidation of the puritate. Have you found it interesting to speak to people on an international level to come here now, and I'm not sure when you arrived, but to have a conversation? I mean, you would have been aware, presumably, that this was not going to be unique to the area that you've been focused on. But has it been interesting to see the extent of this? And I mean, obviously, we've seen what's going on in Canada. We've seen what's going on here. And it could be happening, but this is happening in many other places. From a scientific point of view, has that been interesting for you? Has it been educational? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the first time that came up in Connecticut, in the U.S., that was the first time that, you know, in the U.S. we became really aware of this problem. And then, of course, you found out about the Canadians going through the same thing and got in touch with, but basically from Debbie McCoy, the homeowner advocate, she was in touch with Paul, and she put me in touch with Paul Dunlop. And yeah, it's just interesting to see the problem, a similar problem out here. Yeah, are you at a point in America yet? I don't know if it's, you're dealing with foundations in Ohio specifically, so maybe just use that statement. Oh, okay, more broadly. Yeah, I mean, this problem, like I said, in the U.S., even though my company's in Ohio, it was from a single quarry in Connecticut that was delivering concrete to all the other foundations. So is that Connecticut quarry still active? It is shut down for use for aggregate for concrete, but we've recently determined that there's another quarry in Massachusetts now. So that's just more, just, you know, this, like I said, in Connecticut first came aware in about 2008, and it's just been the last couple of years. We've now determined there's a quarry in central Connecticut that is also causing problems. What about oversight and regulation and inspection of these quarries? Presumably that wasn't happening at least to the right criteria. Right. Has things changed to give you confidence that problems like this will be called, that this is not going to be a perpetual problem that homeowners in America will have to deal with? Yeah, the problem is there are ASTM standards to be able to test the aggregate to see if it's a good quality aggregate for use in concrete, although those standards are put into specifications for project specifications. So for, say, DOT Department of Transportation work or large commercial projects, they'll have to follow the specifications and use aggregate that meets these ASTM specifications. But a lot of times for residential type projects, there's no specification saying that the aggregate meets and meets these standards. So then it's able to be used for these types of residential projects. But Connecticut, since this problem has happened, they have now passed their own quarry standards. So all of the quarries in Connecticut have to get tested now for software content and do a geological survey. And if they see there's a problem, they have to do a further petrographic analysis of that aggregate. So going forward, that should hopefully take care of that problem in Connecticut. So it's now trying to get quarry standards of their own past to a similar, that's being done in Connecticut. It's really fascinating because, I mean, for those with a more intimate knowledge of this, they'll see it differently. But for us as a layperson, this started off as an initial problem, a little part of North Donegal. And then it became apparent that it was much of Donegal. Now 13 counties in this country now were speaking to the likes of yourselves and hearing of the experience in America and Canada and some of the Nordic countries as well. Dr. Kurt Astley, he's Head of Mineral Production and HSE Research Group, Department of Geoscience and Petroleum, Norwegian University of Science and Technology Norway. Again, excellent credentials, I must say. What is happening in Norway, Kurt, and thank you so much for joining us this morning. Thank you. Sorry. In Norway, we don't have this issue with domestic houses that has this deleterious reactions to paratite, but we came into this when there was a tunnel being driven in the south of the country, 20 kilometers to line tunnel. They planned to use this material from the tunnel excavation for creating the concrete liners for the tunnel. But following the Norwegian standards for testing for paratite, they discovered that there was some paratite in the rock mass. So they had to discard or dispose of a lot of all this rock mass from the tunnel and rather buy new fresh aggregates from a local supplier. That was a huge expense for the project. I think it's around, it said to be around 30 million euros approximately. They don't really know the amount. That's nothing. No, it's nothing. Compared to what we're talking about. When was that picked up? Because that's really quite interesting. The science was trusted and costly decisions were made. The right decisions then. Is that the example? If you look at what happens in Quebec here in Ireland and in the US, it's probably the right decision. Our approach is that we came in and have a look at the regulations, the standards and see what are the real thresholds for paratite and sulfur content. Is it higher, is it lower? Are they correct, the standards as today? And also to look into the analytical methods that are used to make sure that they can be trusted and sampling procedures, etc. So it's a bit different from what my colleagues here have discovered. But in this process we have also been starting this cooperation with the University in Quebec. And also these guys now with this conference. Andreas, it really is an international problem that probably requires an international response which is happening on a certain level. Maybe not at the level it needs to have because you guys are coming together and working on this. I'm not sure it depends on which country what level of support and engagement the government has here. They're doing their own thing seemingly. But this is major and we have to make sure that this doesn't become the countries we've talked of but elsewhere. We need an international approach to this, don't we? On a very, very organized, high level way. Yes, this is surely mandatory because every country has its specific boundary conditions and the problems to be solved are specific as well. However if you connect on an international level you can learn from each other and come up with much better solutions compared to when we just work on our own. I mean this is the scientific process. It's dynamic. You learn and you give. How far away do you think we are then with the right intentions from a scientific consensus that we can move forward with that we can sort of start working on and implementing on at various levels within each country? Well first, especially for the situation in Ireland when we have more knowledge on the situation when we have done that we can take the appropriate measures for example in the IS-465 if you have a new addition and this triggers an entire process we bring in test methods that have been proven in other countries and like that we can benefit from each other but the situation in Ireland is such that we really lack knowledge. Now we did the first steps in direction of analysis of the outer and inner leaf but we are just at the beginning we have no clue about the foundations and just imagine you rebuild the house and 10 years later you have uplifted you to an expanding foundation. It would make no sense to do that until such time as you had been assured as best you can through the science that that is advisable or otherwise. Exactly. Nick, are you surprised that we are sort of, I don't know how to frame this I don't want to take away from it because it's hugely important but are you surprised that we are having to have this conversation here in Ireland today being driven by community and sort of academia and that this is not a government sponsored process. Does that make you understand where I'm coming from? It doesn't surprise me because I think we saw a similar thing in the US. A lot of what happened in the US with getting this problem figured out was homeowner driven and advocate driven and actually a reporter, a news reporter was really on the case and went out of his way to really figure out what was going on and reported the news and get it out in front of it. So no, it's kind of a, you know, it was like that in the US also and, you know, these foundations like I said, they just have, you know, very severe cracking, they're actually replacing these foundations at a cost of who's funding that, Nick? That's a good question. Initially, some people were paying for themselves, eventually they were able to get the government, the Connecticut government along with I think some insurance companies, they kicked in a big fund and so now they're having those foundations paid for. No cost to the homeowner. And they were also paying for the testing. So the homeowners can get the concrete tested, send to a laboratory to get their concrete tested, and that's paid for. They do have to get the foundation replaced. Like I said, it's about $250,000 to $200,000 to $250,000 to get it replaced and, yeah. Fascinating insight because that's certainly not the way it is here. All three of you, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it and we really look forward to listening to what you have to say here. We're only scratching the surface here, I'm bluffing it here, but there'll be a full proper conversation which will be happening on the stage to our left which you can still come and attend here at the Clannery and also you can watch online. But for now Dr. Andreas Lehmann, it's been lovely to be here. Thank you so much for joining us on the program this morning and thank you for all you're doing. It's greatly appreciated. We also have Nick Skaglione. Thank you so much Nick for speaking to us. And last but certainly not least, Dr. Kurt Aslee. Thank you so much for joining us. Okay. It is the 9th of Noon Show. We're broadcasting especially here from the Clannery Hotel where this conference will take place. Actually alongside where we're in the room, the conference will be held and it's going to be fascinating and we'll be back with more on this program after these messages. Stay where you are. We'll be back with more on this program. We'll be back with more on this program. 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Five people were hospitalized. One of them sustained serious injuries in the crash at around 9.10 p.m. Anyone who has any information including dashcam footage is being asked to contact at Bunkana Garda Station. Professor Paul Dunlop believes that a fact of concrete block issue was an avoidable disaster. A three-day research event to examine Michaela Clarke and other deleterious materials in concrete blocks will get on their way today with the conference in Letterkenny. Speaking ahead of the conference Professor Dunlop says if guidelines and regulations were followed, homeowners wouldn't be in this situation. Searchers are continuing in the Twin Times for a missing woman. Guardia are conducting the search with assistance from Fawn Search and Rescue. A special meeting is to be held next week to investigate claims fraud beggars are being bossed into Letterkenny. They can hear luck off the Letterkenny-Milford Municipal District last week. Race series concerns over reports that those reporting to be beggars are intimidating people. The workshop next week will involve Donegal County Council, Guardia, St. Vincent of Paul, social welfare representatives and the Simon community. Money has been stolen from St. Bethans Church in St. Johnston. Sometime between 11 a.m. and 4.30 p.m. on Friday last, the door of the monastery was forced open. Anyone who may have observed any suspicious vehicles or people in or around the church on Friday are being asked to contact Guardia in Letterkenny. Meanwhile, a quantity of gold jewellery has been stolen during a break-in in Carragans. It's believed entry was gained through an unlocked door to a house on Main Street on Friday last between 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. The Foreign Affairs Minister says accommodating Ukrainian refugees is putting Ireland under a lot of strain. Later, CSO figures show more than 62,000 Ukrainians have fled to Ireland since the start of the Russian invasion. 4,441 Ukrainian refugees are currently being housed in Donegal. Those are the latest headlines. We'll be back with an update again at 12 noon. OK, Michaela, thank you very much indeed and we'll be back with more guests live from the clanry here in Letterkenny ahead of the defective concrete research conference taking place or beginning today. That's coming up after this break-stay where you are. It's a magical Christmas experience. St Cullums Park, Magic Kingdom featuring a spectacle of light, vintage funfair, Christmas characters, delicious food and drink, the chance to win prizes and shop for gifts. Thursday 1st to Thursday 22nd December St Cullums Park, Jerry London Derry. Don't miss out. Book now online or via Facebook. Listen up pet lovers. Feed your pets for less, a pet value from Cranagh. Get Whiskas 80 pack pouches for only 30 euro. 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Watch the show live now on YouTube, Facebook and at highlandradio.com OK, you're very welcome back to the clan ring. Now our next guest our next panel I suppose you could say are Damien Owens a registrar with Engineers Ireland. Damien, lovely to see you. Thank you so much for calling into us. Thank you. And we're also talking, we're also in the company of Ann Owens former CEO of the Mike Action Group Campaigner and Homeowner Advocate Good morning to you. And last but certainly not least is Debbie McCoy lead advocate in Connecticut a state that has been dealing with these issues before. Debbie, good morning to you. Good morning. Nice to meet you. It's great to meet you too. You listen to the program don't you? Yes, I do. In Connecticut. Ah, yes. They have it. They put it on 100% so I listen to you on that. Oh, lovely. Brilliant. OK. That means you don't have to listen to me live. Listen to the best of it. Come here Debbie. What is the situation of homeowners in Connecticut? What's your situation? It's probably speak about how I got involved seven years ago. My son's condo was told they had a few units affected. It turned out 124 units were affected. However, they excluded condos from the remediation scheme. So mama bear got poked and I came out fighting and I fought for two years to get them on the scheme in the meantime. All the homeowners were in line and by the time they got to the condos they ran out of money. So they infused another 100 million and that took care of the 500 units that were affected in five different complexes. So they fixed my son's condo and I took a deep sigh of relief and then we found out my daughter's home has it. On the day we brought her twin baby girls home from the NICU after 75 days it was supposed to be a joyous day and instead I felt to the ground crying. Here we go again. Debbie was that bad luck or is there a problem with defective products so broad that it's not surprising? To our area Vernon, the town of Vernon that I'm from, it's the hardest hit town. So we have over 400 homes that are affected, three condo complexes two apartment buildings public buildings, there's two schools that are affected police station, fire stations a grocery store in Tallinn. So there's a lot of affected homes. And what is failing is it foundations? The foundations are failing. But it doesn't just affect the foundations. Like in my son's condo none of the doors upstairs closed no closet doors the cracking was going up the walls. My daughter's home the chimney is separating from the home. You know she brought home too little they were born one pound nine eight one pound nine ounces each and their lungs weren't fully developed and when we brought them home after having the basement door open that's all you can smell now is the mold the dark black mold is all over the walls it's really bad. So I formed a woman's working group. We became the legislative arm and it's called the concrete queens. Only in America. Yes I'm known as Debbie McCoy the concrete queen. And why not but you know maybe we need to we've learned an awful lot from your campaign and maybe we should start with things like that. So in terms of I'm sorry to timescale hop here but who's funding the remediation to repair your. Okay so we have three funding mechanisms the first was bonded for five years twenty million a year and because they started late we got three twenty increments three twenty million. So we were able to get a lot of homes done then like I said they ran out of funds so they had to fund these condos and there was five complexes so they did a twelve dollar one dollar a month charge on our insurance policies for ten years so it raises ten million a year for ten years so that's another hundred million and that took care of the condos then when my daughter went to apply they closed the doors they ran out of money they said we're not fixing any more homes and I said oh no you fix one you have to fix them all so we raised another hundred million bonded funds we're doing it over a four year span and next year my daughter home will be able to be fixed and how many homes are being so we have about twenty one hundred applicants so far and that's because the news still you know even though it's so prevalent in Connecticut but the number of applicants versus the cost seems to be way off what we're talking about here the cost is anywhere between a hundred and fifty million to two hundred and fifty but you know we're talking billions here I mean a hundred and fifty thousand to two hundred and fifty thousand per foundation can you imagine that's just the foundation that's not an entire home like here in Ireland so they're able to repair the foundations without touching the rest of the day they have to lift the house seventy in the air remove the old defective concrete and replace it and the insurance companies don't cover it in a way it's terrible it's relatable it connects us here with Connecticut but Damien Owens with engineers Ireland it's very complex in comparison it is it's been going on for a while I've been heartened to hear this morning from Professor Dunlop and Andrew Sleeman about the research that's underway and I think many of our members push for this we operate on a voluntary basis the DIS465 register of engineers who want to take assessments of these affected properties and our members have pushed for a greater understanding of what the causation of the defective materials is because until we fully understand how the mechanism of deterioration it's very hard to actually provide a good remedy but also you have to stand over that good remedy and presumably and I would imagine if I were engineer where we're at now in terms of our knowledge in the conversation over inner leaves, foundations and what have you I would be very reluctant to sign off on an outer leaf repair because I couldn't in all honestly say I know that's a good thing to do and this is what our members have said and it came out when we commenced operation register and went live in I think June 2020 it became very apparent from our members who are engaged by the homeowner and they want to do the best for their client and then they see a number of options and they're constrained and some of the options perhaps they can they can apply either on a cost basis either what's available as a grant or what the homeowner can afford and then other members had noticed similar problems arising in other geographic areas such as Clair and Limerick and you know so that feedback from our members was brought forward so that other other areas could be considered so it's not just a dunnigall problem or a mayo problem it seems to be more pervasive but how do we progress forward because it's going to take some time to get all the information we might need right and we're never going to get any absolute absolute I don't think we'll ever get any absolute guarantees so between us doing nothing and only full demolitions right how do we find I don't even want to say the word landing zone but you know what I'm on about how do we find the sweet spot then to move this forward doing the right thing to the satisfaction of homeowners to the satisfaction of the fund towards it and also engineers I think when the scheme came out first I think based on the feedback from engineers and others it was modified so there's now a second version of the scheme coming in and I think that's one aspect we've got to continue to be willing to modify the scheme as we learn more and more but my point is sorry Damon unless I was given the final analysis of the potential for foundations to go I am not going into this scheme go through all the mrigmarole of an outer leave and then you know the whole idea would be that maybe I could breathe at night that I know a problem has been fixed but until such time as we know what the situation is within our leaves and foundations I would probably say well can I stick it out here and then that means the scheme then is not moving forward that's the point I'm trying to make here I'm going to take the time to get to that point I think where ultimately we want to go with the research is that you can have a graph that will show you based on the research that's taking place you have a graph so I can show you where your property is on that scale of deterioration which may give you you know okay we need to fix it now or it'll be a company my insurance is company saying to me well I'm not going to insure your house if you only do the outer leave so then I look at your scale and I go seriously am I going to believe that scale or am I going to go with the insurance company here so I'll stay out of this scheme until such time as there's something more definitive and you know I think that's the biggest impediment to this thing moving forward and that's a timing issue because until you get to the research and don't forget there's several hundred reports out there already that are members of undertaking for their clients and there is a pool of information that really should be mined for information there's properties that have been demolished that are living post mortem where we can take samples and see what the mechanism deterioration is throughout the property yeah but there's people wanting to stop working now Debbie they have this is our enhanced game or yours yeah and the enhanced game in Ireland they have the second grant John O'Connor was in charge of the second grant that's for options two through five so say and not for option one but you only demolish the home to the foundation say the foundation comes out that it needs to be replaced there's no second grant under option one where does that leave all these homeowners that could end up having it should be all one through five should be allowed on that second grant because it leaves all these people in limbo and they don't want to take a step forward exactly my point if they think that their foundations are deteriorating so that should be included in the one through five should be included under the second grant what worries me is the motivation for that not being the case usually what would be the motivation for that not being the case if you are satisfied that and we've heard government reps say foundations are going to be fine if you believe that we'll put your money where your mouth is allow re-entry to the scheme across all five for foundations then you say well no, well why not Anne Owens has been sitting patiently there Anne it's really quite interesting this has been linked around the world different parts of America from Norway to Sweden to here and that's what we know of and there's more out there the scale of this it's remarkable and the scale of this conference I think actually can't be underestimated either absolutely I'm involved in this campaign for the last 11 years I'm very proud to say that this campaign started off at my kitchen table and we brought it from the kitchen table to the cabinet table and we've now brought it to an international level this is a beacon call for every country in the world to really learn about the geology of their rocks and to understand geology and the purpose of the different geology what it's suitable for because if they don't do that this will continue to happen and as we now know it's happened in Norway it's happened in the UK it's happened in America it's happened already in Ireland with Pirate America now we're learning about Pirateite so I mean this is a real opportunity for the whole world to listen to the science and what is happening and that's the only way we can make sure that this doesn't continue to happen again and again I hear you right but you know sometimes we'd be preaching to the converted I mean are all of Donegal's five elected representatives and the council are they all going to be taking up those every single one of them 38 odd canisters, 5 TDs is minister O'Brien going to be sitting there is the opposition housing minister going to be sitting there anyone who claims to represent people in houses elected are they going to be here do you know what I mean this is fantastic coming to some sort of a consensus right but it can't be done in the vacuum that doesn't contain the people that make the decisions that pull the purse strings Greg you are absolutely right those people that you talk about should have been the very very first people to put their name to join this conference because at the end of the day everybody the taxpayer needs accountability the homeowner needs justice and the very people you talk about who really caused damage by having light touch regulation no regulation they are responsible the kind of accountability that we need to see in politics now right is that any of our elected representatives councils and TDs right unless there is something seriously going on in the lives that aren't here going forward if they are not here should remove themselves from any further conversation on defective blocks if they could be here and they are not here because how could you have any input into this going forward if you don't come to an event like this absolutely I mean this is a real comprehensive event we have people from all over the world the best brains in the world on deleterious materials and we have them here today and those people that you talk about aren't here then everybody should be asking questions and where do you get accountability if the people responsible are not here today it starts at the ballot box Damien from your perspective how do you see the next few months unfolding with the IS 465 correct we are going to see what that includes what that doesn't include we are hoping that this new enhanced scheme as it has been labelled will begin to be opened sometime next year how do you think and it's an opinion because none of us have the facts how do you think this progresses then in the next two years I think we shall see the scheme today there is only 40 engineers 30 to 40 engineers and really those numbers need to increase so that more properties can be assessed what brings them in the assessment it needs to be open it will be open to more than just engineers to do the initial assessments one of the problems at the moment this initial assessment I'm sorry to come across Damien I want everyone to understand which means me as well this is the initial assessment which they form an opinion which would allow people then to get the boring and what have you done out of their grant effectively if they are finally accepted onto the scheme correct so the initial assessment to get into the scheme to get the property tested and one of the issues at the moment is testing capacity because the testing samples have to go to the UK and that's proven quite and is it scientifically beyond us to establish such a testing centre in Ireland some of the tests could be done here and again it gets back to some of the research that's been done you know if we have a proper set of data we can do an initial assessment we have an awful habit of outsourcing testing in this country for some reason be it in health all matters like this I don't know what we're afraid of we've got some amazing minds here a lot of them will be in this room Debbie what else have you got to add while I have you sitting there you're jumping up, you're waving, you're back and forwards the concrete queen we can't keep her in one place Debbie what do you want to add before we move on Debbie? well a lot of the homeowners sent their reports to me and there's 8 most reactive minerals sulphide minerals and I see 4 of the 8 in their reports and there's actually some that don't even have mica they just have peritite and they can't get into the scheme under the assessment you took the scheme and you amended it by allowing other counties but they say oh no we can't amend it to have peritite the most reactive mineral on the planet we can't amend it to add one deleterious mineral to allow all these homes in county Donegal to be able to access the enhanced so is that trying to keep a lid on it then to try and keep a cap on it what's the motivation why not do it right why not do the right thing it's perplexing to me it really is but the only motivation can be the only motivation can be that we can be seen to be doing something but if we go the whole hog what's the consequences, how do we even do it I wonder I want to have, you're here till half 11 at least anyway aren't you just for this piece because I do have to take an ad break but what I want to start to talk about is the awful situation W's you've outlined the first wave was your son and the second wave was your daughter and everything that went along with that I want to know how you're dealing with supporting people through this and whether the state involvement in that and also want to hear from Anne as well just we talk again about the real impact of this people listening to this in houses that are in a terrible state absolutely unlivable so what we'll do is we'll take a short break and we'll be back with this panel next week we'll also see exactly what's covered you're not paying for a starter but he's not an expert when it comes to electric cars should he go for mild hybrid, full hybrid is he ready for fully electric all he really knows is that he wants a pluggy in one luckily Nissan have been giving people help and advice on 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Club is now open check out our entire range online at tinnystoys.com where we offer free shipping on orders over 75 euro by now pay later with Klarna no extra charges Tinney's Toys, Ireland's largest farm toy super store going back okay you're very welcome back to the Ninetyl Noon Show live here from the Clanry Hotel in letter Kenny we're still in the company here of Debbie McCoy a Connecticut Debbie we've talked about the remedial aspect of the blocks and mortars so to speak in terms of the recognition of the distress this has put people through and you've outlined it personally how has that been dealt with how has that been recognized in Connecticut we appointed a homeowner advocate however she hasn't been advocating so two years ago I had to quit my job now I've been doing this volunteer for seven years five of it was all research in the last two years I quit my job and there's over 21 2100 applicants and I know this because I've helped every one of those applicants through the process filling out the application uploading the five points of evidence and you know I want to hit on that we have one centralized funding it's called the captive insurance we don't we have 48 towns that are impacted I can't even imagine sending money to 48 different towns and you know because we waive permit fees and we wanted it to be uniform across all 48 towns well they have their own charters so it's not uniform so I can't even imagine doing 48 towns like they want to do county by county it should be one captive insurance or just one unity and we funnel every year a certain amount so we have the surcharge 10 million we have the 25 million so that's 35 million and the captive has you give five points of evidence your name address phone number you have to show proof of paid taxes and proof that you own the home that's it and then you supply an engineers report and they have to classify a severity class code three is the worst of the worst two is it's 50 percent of your wall and then class code one is you've tested positive to paratite but there's no signs even after 20 years they're in a line what I called the line to nowhere but they can't sell their homes because it's been tested positive to paratite it's a zero asset so the captive you know it's not bottlenecked so I mean so when you look at and you're well across the situation here and I'm going to get Anna and Damien back in on this as well of course but when you look at how people are being treated here I think your expression says it all you know like as bad as it is I think you can multiply it by many factors here it's bad I think the way the homeowners are treated is almost worse than having the affected home itself because this stop this go stop go stop it's like Groundhog Day not to mention every single morning you wake up it's the same day the homeowners are in a PR battle with the government for the general public's mind that's how crazy it is here and I can produce evidence of that because things were said for a specific person and they had a reaction that was intended yeah so I mean like as I say Ann we've an awful lot in common with Debbie and Connecticut but my word there is a divergence when it comes to recognizing people as victims of this as people who are innocent that they've done nothing wrong and yet they're guilted they're made feel bad hurdles are put in front of them they're made to feel bad for even daring to not want to spend your own money fixing a house that's falling down because it's not their fault I mean what we're doing to people here is terrible yeah my presentation today is called victims of failure and boy does that give me some vista I actually didn't know where to begin and where to end so I thought because every word had to mean something in this wee presentation of mine today and I just think we can't forget that this is not a 100% scheme I mean we have to keep saying that that we fought for 11 years for a scheme that was 100% it's not 100% and as resources are more limited in the cost of living crisis exponential rise in the cost of everything more and more people especially vulnerable people are going to fall by the wayside so people with for example elderly people who are not going to be able to negotiate the scheme who aren't going to be able to raise collateral people with mental health difficulties, physical health problems people on marginal incomes ordinary people who work many many of them are just not going to be able to raise the money why? because they're living in a rotten house and they're paying a mortgage and then they're expected to go and pay rent so they are just not going to be able to raise the 10, 20 or 30% and that balance is rising every day so just make no mistake about it lots and lots of people and the most vulnerable people most vulnerable homeowners are going to fall by the wayside and I think that is the saddest, saddest thing yeah I mean that's not justice but even in terms of paying for what has been committed to like there seems to be in a lot of conversations I've had so far today there seems to be in other places some level of accountability, some ones here, no ones to blame we're restoring banks assets completely to 100% it's another bailout of the banks that seems to be acceptable the insurance companies seem to be able to say it's nothing to do with us oh by the way though if you do the outer leaf we're also not going to insure your home any bonds that were there whatever they are for what about the failure in terms of oversight what about people that signed off on stuff you're right Greg and I don't think you can talk about justice unless somebody answers all those questions and that must come from the very top as you know not one quarry has been censured, not one block layer has been censured and the only people suffering in this is A, the taxpayer working out a blank check and Damien we are still in a situation whereby we can't say with absolute certainty that concrete products are being produced, guaranteed to a certain standard now well there is a standard lay down so well who's enforcing that well it should be the local authorities are they? I presume they are I don't know I can't say if they aren't but I think the revised scheme just to pick on something that Damien mentioned the revised scheme I think that's proposed at least the second mediation or just option of a second mediation will follow with the home so it will allow the homeowner if they wish to sell the property it will have that option of a second mediation will go with the property so it gives a level of this two houses one beside each other and one has this caveat and the other doesn't I mean obviously that's going to severely impact the value of that asset but it gives some level of reassurance which is a kind of disadvantage hopefully you say about and you're not to stand over this but I was interviewing a member of the Construction Federation of Ireland recently a man from Leetrim I believe it is can't remember his name at the moment and I asked him if he were building his own private property would he source materials from Donegal to do so and he said no now you know that's the level of within the industry that's the level of confidence we have in what we're producing at the moment to build Debbie why are you holding up there Debbie I'm holding up I'm holding up a map of Ireland half of Ireland is marked in yellow that's the that's the market surveillance when you ask if the market surveillance authority is out there checking how can they if you've got 13 of the 26 counties affected in Ireland to me that's extremely disturbing that's why I'm here there's an iron sulfide mineral problem pyrite and pyrite mica accelerates the oxidation and pyrite oxidizes 100 times faster pyrite oxidizes 100 times faster than pyrite pyrite is lethal to concrete and if you have pyrite and pyrite somebody's not following EN 12620 that's your directive from Europe that's your regulation that's what the national European standards trump any national standard so you should be using pyrite in IS 465 colon 218 colon 218 Debbie it's been wonderful chatting to you we look forward to listen to you a little later on appreciate it and as always thank you so much and also last but not least Damien did you feel is there anything that you wanted to say before you wrapped up because it is a very complex situation and you know the the diagram Debbie showing there that would you know many of our members that fight back towards immediate where necessary that you know the scale of the problem and the issues being noticed in other areas there has been a huge amount of I suppose surveys undertaken by our members and that represent the wealth of knowledge that people can look at and get to the bottom of this problem alright okay thank you so much go ahead Debbie yes Damien you started out with 38 engineers Ireland when you submitted your letter of submission you were down to 30 how many registered members of Ireland do you have left for this scheme there's currently still 30 on the scheme there's still 30 even with the situation with no indemnity insurance and we're recruiting more yes so we do need more yeah I know there's only two that can get it in all of Ireland that's Paul Ford and Aideen O'Connell the rest of you are held almost with both hands tied behind your back without insurance and the fact that you started with 38 and now you're down to 30 well we could start the conversation from there Debbie but Wilson this is a sample of what's to come here at this conference thank you very much for your time all of you back with more as we come towards the end of this special program from the clannery here as part of the science and societal impacts of defective concrete discussion program all right back in a moment a carbonara or delicious roast pork always choose pork and bacon with the board be a quality mark for the highest standards verified at every stage and for recipes visit board be a dot ie forward slash pork and bacon years ago I used to dread my motor insurance renewal then a friend told me about O'Malley Scanlon 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play available in store at Century Complex call us on seven four nine one two one nine seven six or check out our website CenturyCinemas.ie for more information hi I'm Ali first your student in ATU Donegal are you considering your university choices Atlantic Technological University will be hosting an open day in the letter Kenny campus on Thursday 17 November from nine 30 to two meter academic experts explore campus facilities connect with their student ambassadors and experience all that ATU Donegal has to offer visit ATU.ie forward slash Donegal open day see you there hello dream inspector 50 grand got it wait 10 winners of 50 grand each every Tuesday and Friday so every Euro millions draw till Christmas is guaranteed 10 Irish winners of 50 grand each 10 Ireland only raffle winners of 50,000 euro guaranteed in every Euro millions draw till Christmas the national lottery it could be it could be a good watch current okay John o'clocker his an appointee warm a homie aterei I hope you can hear me okay, good morning to you. Yes, good morning. Good morning. Right, okay, so when are we expecting to see this enhanced scheme rolled out? We'd expect the enhanced scheme to be rolled out early next year, so whether it be next February or March, so it'd be important for everyone to know like the existing scheme is still in place, so anyone applying today, they apply under the existing scheme and the new scheme is able to come in place next year. But with all due respect, John, it would be a bit foolish to apply to the 90 cent, 10 scheme and having to spend 6,000 or 7,000 euro getting your house tested when you could wait for the enhanced scheme and that cost would be much less. Yeah, no, it would be a lot better for someone to wait because in terms of applying under the new scheme, the cost from the home owners perspective would be the cost of having a building condition assessment carried out by an engineer or another building professional, which is a visual examination of a house and submitting that with your application and that would probably cost the order of five or 600 euro, so it definitely would be better to wait until the new scheme is in place from a cost point of view. When will we know, and that knowledge being based in science, whether or not an outer leaf only solution is acceptable or whether or not foundations are included or not, when will we know that for certainty? Well, under the new arrangement, the homeowner lodges the application to the local authorities, in case it's on EGAL, it would be to Johnny Gull County Council. They will refer that application then to the housing agency who will carry out the assessment, they'll use engineers to carry out an assessment of the house, they carry out testing and then determine whether there's a requirement to demolish and rebuild the house or a requirement to replace the external leaf. One thing that's very important under the new legislation is where is the remediation option, such as replacing external leaf, there will be a 40 year guarantee with that. So if there is any issues from the homeowner. Is that extended, John, to the foundations if they were to begin to fail or just the inner leaf? It would be currently to do with the walls themselves, the concrete block walls, but the expectation would be that if there was any issue, including the foundations that that guarantee would apply. That will be contained formally, because I mean obviously an expectation is it could be nice or you presume it should be, but will that actually be written down effectively so people can have that assurance? Yeah, so the actual guarantee and it'll be provided to homeowners by way of a letter of assurance so there'll be a very specific kind of formal guarantee provided to homeowners and that will be included in the regulation that are now being prepared and so it'll be critical of the homeowner's perspective into the future. Okay, what's the situation then someone who gets their outer leaf done, for example, in terms of home insurance? I'm being told people, companies won't insure these properties and who could count as an asset or sell on a house that an insurance company won't stand over, even if it's repaired under a government scheme. So what's the situation in terms of the security of house insurance that people might want to enjoy? No, to be a full expectation that anyone who has their house remediated and the court has been determined by the housing agency and has that guarantee that there will not be difficulties with house insurance. But there currently is, John, with respect, there are people who've had their house repaired but can't get house insurance. Yes, I appreciate that. And those issues would have to be going to resolve with the insurance industry. You need to make sure that the insurance industry are happy with that letter of guarantee, that form of guarantee so that people can get house insurance. And if the situation arose that they couldn't, well then we would have to change in terms of what was being recommended for remediation. But I'd be confident. This is, John, with all due respect, though, with all due respect a couple of months, with all due respect, a couple of months out from you saying this should be, this all seems very aspirational, a lot of expectation, a lot of, well, if that doesn't happen, we'll have to look at this. Should this not all really these basic questions, should this not all be ironed out, quite clear at this point, to give at least home on some certainty on one element of this process? Yeah, there has been engagement with the insurance industry and to ensure that they're in agreement with what is being put in place. So that work is being done and will be completed before a new system is in place. And I'd be confident that there won't be a difficulty with provisional house insurance under the new system. Okay, but the currently is, so you hope that will be addressed. Finally, in terms of emergency funds that people might need to access to make their homes somewhat livable throughout the winter or to be able to access monies for an emergency accommodation, you'd be well aware that people are living in very unfit houses at the moment, not only for their physical health, but the detriment to their physical health long and what have you going forward. Is that money available now? If not, why not? When will it be available? Yeah, I think, you know, in terms of what people are going through and the kind of the appalling situation in terms of damage to their homes, the, I have been, you know, kind of pushing along with, you know, others that that alternative accommodation funding, you know, should be put in place where someone is approved for a house to be remediated and if they need to- But John, when will that happen? In terms of accommodation. When will that happen, John? You don't need to address that. When? Does people need to get out of their homes now? Yes. I'd, you know, I'd expect, you know, where somebody has a case where they're approved that they need to leave their home and the engineer who has assessed their home is putting that case forward, you know, that, you know, that can be done within weeks. But should the scheme stalled at the moment so there are impotuity in these unsafe houses? If their 15,000 euro runs out before work on repairing their house even begins, is there any, is there any capacity to increase that? There would be capacity to increase it. I think in terms of if someone is going to get out of their home long term, maybe they need to maybe look at the alternative accommodation option, you know, whether, you know, in some cases, someone can provide a mobile home, you know, in their property that they have a long term, you know. Is that really the, John, with all due respect, is that with everything that's going on in this country, is that truly the government's response to this that if they're going to be out for a long time, well, you know what? You need to look to buying yourself for mobile home. Is that actually government policy? Is that how you're dealing with this? That's really worrying. It's not going, you know. In terms of, you know, government policy, in terms of what is the, you know, kind of appropriate, you know, alternative accommodation, you know, and if, you know, someone has, you know, a long term accommodation need, there are provisions in terms of dealing with that. Any plans to build modular homing? No, there's no plans to do that, you know. I think in terms of, in the, there's a scheme called the Pyrite Remediation Scheme, you know, that has been running a number of years and in that case, people have to find alternative accommodation. And it hasn't been a difficulty, you know, when people know that they have to move out and find out that they can't. How do you, with all due respect, John, how do you expect people to pay mortgages and rent for years? I don't understand, I don't think you understand exactly how difficult the situation is for people here, especially considering they're gonna have to find tens of thousands of euro to even fix the house on the scheme, the numbers don't add up, John. It's really worrying if that's what you think the solution is. No, no, I appreciate, you know, Greg, you know, in terms of the difficult situation people are in and in terms of, you know, again, alternative accommodation, the best way that that works is that people are recouped their costs on an ongoing basis, that they're not building up, you know, large costs that they're not funding. All right, John, thanks for your time this morning. All right, I appreciate it. John O'Connor, who's actually a representative there, the Minister for Housing, Dara O'Brien, Luke Ming Flanagan, MEP, you've helped to fund this conference, your office has funded this conference. My word, we're so far, you know, you think you've made so much progress in recognizing the extent to this problem, dealing with it, and really, we're actually behind square one. Well, look, throughout my life, I suffer from depression and I have to say, having listened to that last man speak in there, he hasn't helped it because you'd be damn well very depressed after listening to it. You'd have to ask the question if it was his own house or if it was these people's own houses, would they have better answers to the questions that were asked? I mean, to me, it seems like the solution from the government is, get away with spending as little as possible, take as little responsibility, and no matter how much of a joke the proposals are, if we can get away with them, well, then push them through. I mean, the idea, the idea that you'd put an outer leaf on a house and not know what the long-term effects are going to be, and put more of Irish taxpayers' money into it is farcical. The idea that you would carry out work on a house and do nothing about the foundations is policy by wishful thinking. Now, every morning I wake up and I have wishful thinking about stuff, but 10 minutes later, I get with reality and I do what has to be done. But sadly here, it seems to be wishful thinking is the policy, and if we can get away with it and we can ram it down their throats, that's what they're going to do because listening to that last interview there, we hear about car crash interviews. That car will never drive again after that interview. It is sick. I would prefer not to be here today in this capacity. I would prefer if the government would drive on ahead and do what needs to be done and provide 100% redress, with absolutely no cost to the homeowners who are not responsible for this. We're responsible for it. The people who run the country, and when it goes wrong, we are a collective, and as a collective as a country, we should help everyone out. My house isn't going to be done, but any amount of money that it costs should come out of my tax to pay for this. But in the meantime, to make sure that things don't go quiet on it. When things go out of the media, things stop happening. If this conference achieves nothing else, we'll put this out on the airwaves for three hours and get people talking about this and light a fire under politicians who think this will go away quietly, then it's been a success. But I have to say, that was hard listening there, and if I had a house that was affected by this, I would struggle to get through the rest of the day. It's a disgrace. Martin McDermott, Councillor. Martin McDermott, Chair of the Defective Block Steering Committee of Donegal County Council. It's hard to undo what we heard there in terms of really Donegal homeowners to some extent, you kind of on your own, get them all by home. Yeah, look, Greg. Is that really it? Is that, was that up until now, was that your understanding of how we're going to deal with this would be? No, absolutely not, Greg. I think what has been pushed for is very clear. The 15K of rent. I just, we've very little time, so I don't want us to talk about now what we think should happen, because we've heard what's going to happen. So what we... I'm not so sure you've heard what's going to happen, to be fair. But that's the general kind of the appointee of the Minister of Housing. Yeah, well, he's a member of the housing agency. I don't think he's an appointee of Dara O'Brien, now to be fair. But I think the first... He was appointed by Minister of Housing, Dara O'Brien, as homeowner liaison. Homeowner liaison, yes. So you're saying he was or wasn't appointed, he was? He was as homeowner liaison, yes. But I think to be clear here, and we'll have to be clear, the 15K is and has went through legislation. I think that there's people out there that needs that money today. Yeah, but my point is, they, one second, Martin, they, am I frustrating you, Martin? I'm sorry, I apologize about that. I just want to find the point. Yeah, but they've said that 15,000-year-old, right, is burned through, okay, in a year, and there's still a year from getting their housing fixed. Well, the important question is what happens after that? That's exactly what I'm going to come on to. The 15K that has been, went through legislation, should be made available right away, but not just the 15K. The 15K is no good to any homeowner that has to leave their house today, that are not even through stage one of the application process. Even they are through stage one, they still have at least another nine months ahead of them before they're at stage two to start remediating their houses. So the 15K on its own is not the answer. It has to come with the availability of that money, be able for the homeowner for however long they're out of their home. But it also has to stop coming out of the grand. You can't have someone living in accommodation for four years at a cost of, whatever, 40, 50 grand, and then that's coming out of the grant. I mean, that's, so it needs to come from a different funding source. And it comes out of the grant if it's over the 420. So anybody that's under that, it will not come out of their grant. So I think that's, you have to be clear on that as well for everybody out there. You have to trigger the 420 before it will be coming out of your grant. So, and I thank Greg, you know, there are people out there that, you know, are in real need of this instantly because there are houses that people shouldn't be living in. But it can't be just a one-off 15K that's used up within a year and has to be run out for the period of the person's out of their home. Listen, thanks for your time this one. And we spoke a lot in the past and we will again in the future. And maybe we might do a follow-up interview for clarification on Mr. O'Connor's comments. Luke, I mean, people can still register to come down here. They can watch it on Facebook, I understand. We'll link that stuff. It's a significant conference this, if you want to just maybe wrap it up in 30 seconds. Yeah, it is a significant conference. As I said, if nothing else, it keeps the issue in the public's mind. And you made a very interesting point at the start. Should the government not be doing these studies? Well, there's plenty of evidence from the past where the government doesn't do it and if the people do it, then subsequently the government moved. I worked with the turf cutters years ago. There was no proof that what we wanted to do could have actually been done. We put together a 200-page report ourselves. We presented to the European Union. They said they hadn't seen anything from our government in 15 years. And guess what? They're nearly implementing it to the letter of the law. So if the country doesn't do it, then sadly, but we will pick up the ball and we'll do it ourselves. And then we'll present them the evidence and when they have the evidence, let them deal with science and not turn it into politics and do the bloody right thing. MAP, Luke, Ming, Flanagan, thank you. Thank to all of our guests today. Thanks to Emma, Donna, Marie, Kevin for their support down here. We'll be back tomorrow morning at nine. Enjoy the rest of your Tuesday. The Ninetown Noon Show with letter Kenny Credit Union now offering...