 All right. Hello everybody. I just have my I have my light in front of my face like a dumb dumb. There we go All right. Hello everybody It's Friday, which is not a normal day. We would join you to talk about Warhammer, but yet here we are all the same What's up Tom? I'm ready to do this. Let's do it Yeah, great great you can put that away and throw that in the trash because we as we're gonna talk about that Has nothing to do with what we're talking about. We don't have to roll for priority What oh god Oh boy It's gonna be so amazing. All right, so yeah, we're here to talk about the announcement today Uh, I will tell you that this is a surprise So let's just start with the emotional response. Okay What what did it got announced if you're watching this you know that they announced Warhammer the old world I have the best piece of art up from the article on the screen so people can see it Uh, and it's the it is the best moment that ever happened in the old world It's the moment where it was destroyed The best thing that ever happened to the old world was sending it up in flames Well done Archeon. You're a hero You're the hero we needed and deserved Uh, I disagree. He now needs to take a world destroyer off of his resume. I saw because Yeah, uh So the uh, yeah, sorry everybody my painting light was in my face. That's funny. Um, so at any rate Uh, let's just talk emotional responses first. So they announced this this morning. Okay Yep, what are you thinking? What's on your mind? So they announced it and I went Okay Like like that's what they got out of me like Okay, um, I mean I think I get it but Okay Yeah That's my response that I got that was the whole range of emotions. Yeah, sure I I so I watched everybody's reaction videos today. Uh, I've everybody who's who's posted one. I think like rob and uh and uh What's face, um And two plus had some discussion about hey, well, I think had the best reaction that mirrors your own clearly By the way, hey, well, I hate that you stole my my concept. We were on simpatico Uh, because each made a video. It's it's really great. In fact, I won't give it away. I'll just say go watch. Hey, what was the video? Uh, you know, my initial thought was I much the same like an all right Okay Like I'm listening. Sure. Yeah um So what is this let's let's get into the specifics of the announcement, right? So what they said is There is a new team They they opened within You know within the studio somewhere now the running theory is it'll be within the forge world team that has been brought under the The main studio because they said there was an announcement coming about forge world Well in that well in that small video And the old guy was there Right in the video the one who was like, why don't we do Horace heresy for fantasy? Yeah, like that was forge world guy. So It's probably forge world Like that's who's probably gonna own it one would assume in the same way they basically own the Horace heresy, right? Yep, so it would just make sense for them to to own this as well and to make it basically a specialist game under their banner Uh, we don't know that for sure, but that's a fairly easy assumption, right? Right, right And they've said that it is not coming soon and they were incredibly emphatic on this That is which is like what they said with the sisters and they didn't like they were very Like tried and true on that Well, let's and let's look at that Let's look at the parallel to the sisters real quick because they said the sisters were coming in 2019 and like Under the wire. They're just making it You know, right, right, right like that was announced at adept con 2018 and they said it'll be sometime in 2019 and they just made it Yes, right. Yeah, you will be able to buy Some of the army in 2019 is what they said and guess what? You're gonna buy some. Yep. There's a box So they said not this year not the next year at least Which realistically means let's put this in real terms for everybody for a moment. Okay Yep, realistically what that means is that this is available At the earliest the end of 2022 This is available At the next edition change. Well, I'm just saying that's the or I'm giving you an earliest possible date Right, and when I'm saying realistic data something like 2023 Right, but I'm likening it to the actual aos cycle, which is right now about four years Like the prior aos and fantasy cycles have been four years Which means that this like it would Hypothetically launch with third edition aos sure fair point or sometime around there Um, the way I thought about it the way I phrased it to you earlier today was we are as potentially as far away from this game Whatever it is as uh As as we are from the first ghb in the past Like right this game is as far in the future As the first ghb was in the past Okay So what even aos looks like or the world of this game looks like or the world period looks like at that point Hey, I don't know if there is a world at that point. Sure. Who even knows I could be dead That's where that was my joke earlier. It seems entirely possible Uh, so You know like that's number one. We've got it like of course today The hype train is like on a million Uh, sure, but of course we got to set that back a lot So, yeah, I mean obviously tempered expectations now There's a lot I want to unpack with this announcement, tom There's so much that I want to talk about all all of the everything absolutely Just because I I spent the day like reading facebook. Unfortunately Oh Oh that mistake. I wanted to take the temperature I want to take the temperature. It's good to go out there and do the research Look, right as as an investigative journalist, you don't want to go to like war torn countries But sometimes that's where the wars are, you know, they don't they don't happen over here in your backyard You got to go do the Did uh, did you see any of the conversations I was having on uh on a local page first? Yeah, yeah, I did on buck buck battles. Yeah Which is like the big nine-page community site around here. Yeah, sure and and you know interesting mixed reaction there So that's fine. Yeah Um, I mean, I'm sure there's some people who would who are I think the the reactions were a range of things people being obviously a lot of people very excited Uh, a lot of people who are sort of concerned a lot of people who don't know what to think Right, so right, which all makes sense Because they didn't give basically anything in this article except to say we've got a logo talk to you Well, you know, you'll see more but it's going to be four years, you know We've got nothing else right So let me uh, let me start out with a personal message to gw. Hopefully they can get this far into the video Okay, okay. I want to start here. This these these seem to work. Oh, just as a real quick aside Uh The are you gonna make the giant? I am they ended it with saying there's something giant coming but we're heish heish about it Uh, I ended this week's warhammer weekly saying just give me a giant army. Let's say it's from heish I nailed that call. Okay. If that's what we get that thing didn't even age 48 hours if in 48 hours that Random prediction comes true Then we are the greatest of all time like I am just saying right there But at any rate, that's just a slight aside or or we have much more influence than we anticipate Boy really fast Just just we're speaking things into existence. First. We got the cities to happen second. We got this. It's great. You're welcome Yeah, uh, no, so okay Uh message to gw here would be the first article. I would publish about this Okay, yep uh The first article I would publish about this if I was gw would be my guiding principles Sure the three or four Uh, the design principles design principles that I operate under In the execution of the creation of this game system over the next three to four years Like what we did with legacy heroes and and every game I've ever designed Basically after the first one when I realized it's an important thing to do, right? um, and what the Guiding principles would be is to to because right now what they've given us is a big box Just a big blank box like you could have and we can put anything in that box That boat or you can have what's in the box But the box could contain anything it could be a boat Uh, and yes, exactly and everybody's like pouring their hopes and dreams and fears And it's so adorable into the box. Sure. Sure. Yes And So hence set the guiding principles here would be an example I'm not saying these are the real ones here would be an example of some guiding principles, right? Right. Okay. Number one Yeah, like paying a picture for everybody. I know what you're talking about but here's what I mean by guiding principles everybody This would be my article number one. I'd publish in four months about this or whatever Yep Guiding principle the first imagine I was in charge of this we will pay homage To the lore of the old world and respect it But we will not be completely constrained by it And we'll seek to explore corners of the old world that we were not previously explored Okay, guiding principle the first guiding principle the second We are not seeking to recreate the worlds of warham of previous editions of warhammer fantasy battles And instead we'll be looking to make a new game Uh that utilizes the best of what warhammer fantasy battles and rank and flank systems had to offer in this game Yep, great. Yep. Three say something about models Whatever that means like whatever you think about models say something about the models you're going to get to use extreme thing again We should be back now There it is and we're back and that knocks off the sound. I hate when that happens Uh, I've got to figure out why that's happening. So at any rate, thanks youtube. Yeah, indeed. We're back now. Sorry everybody That'll make the vid that'll make the audio on this off again, which I just hate so I'm gonna find it Yep, uh at any rate, uh the Set out those guiding principles because I think that's an absolutely critical Yeah, I don't know if everybody heard me but like four years of expectation Just simply leads to disappointment. Yeah, that's exactly like like that's going to be the product And so like what you need to do is set Like set guardrails on expectation Yeah 100 because otherwise you're just going to like Disappoint people in minor ways now and don't let them bring their expectations build up that far All right, you don't want their expectations totally dashed at launch. That's not that's not where you went No, that's where you went wrong with a os right so don't make that same mistake again Set it up now let everybody adjust people are still interested will dial in you could continue to build momentum Right, you don't want a crescendo that crashes Uh, so there you go. Okay So that's sort of my first thought Uh Okay, tom. So there's so many things to unpack here I literally don't even know where to start and like the comments are rolling in hot and fast Hopefully everybody will hear us fine. I am trying to watch Yep, okay Number one Let's let's tackle this Is it about models? Well, hold on. I don't want to get into models Is this just going to be Warhammer fantasy battles again? No, no way no way. No way know how if it was there wouldn't be a three four year development cycle time So if you're expecting this to just be like a reprint or reprint or something like that stop Dash that expectation now get rid of it. Okay. It's not that Okay, so here here's another reality. Here's a reality check for you folks We don't even know if it's uh, like 28 millimeter hero scale Sure completely true Yeah, like it could be anything this could be six millimeter war master reimagined Sure sure. Yep. I mean like I I don't want that but it could be and so Jikes and by the way square bases make a lot more sense when you're putting like these huge units Like war master units like war master units on the table, right? Yeah Like using like an old chariot base the 100 by 50s or whatever Like make a lot more sense if they're these big blocks. Yeah, sure But that said, uh, I hope not. I hope that it's the current scale but continue Sure, couldn't be, uh, is every Here's a fun question Are you going to be able to just pick up and play every army that you currently have from war era fantasy that's still on square bases? no Why would you it's a great question like I I I saw I I think and I don't want to call you out But I think somebody had mentioned in the comments like there won't be any new models when this releases You're out of your mind No, no flat out of your mind. They are a model company the the whole purpose of this Uh, it's to sell models folks. Absolutely. Absolutely. This is a model selling company. Yes They didn't they're not gonna go through three years of work to sell a book There's no money in that folks Okay That's not the end of this road Like and actually like they have much greater appeal selling models I you know, I shared this in a conversation on twitter where somebody was You know bitching and I just simply said they are a model company. They're gonna sell models Uh, you can bet your dot like so one of my predictions and we'll get to this is that like Especially if this is through forge world We will see at least two new armies and my money is on two armies specifically tomb kings and Bretonians And guess what? Even if people are not adopters of this game, they will sell models to ninth age folks and they will sell models to um kings of war Yeah, sure Like like they're selling models if if whatever the effect is on those other games or bringing players back They're gonna sell models and that's the point Yeah, the point of this is certainly to have new model lines to sell Right, like they are a model making company and models are what we love from them I that meme I don't remember who made the meme yesterday But god bless you for making the meme of like vince outside of warham world that says I love this Please do more of this thing or you know, please continue Which was so ironic to have that the day before this happens, but like whatever it's fine um The uh, but yes like a hundred percent. There's gonna be armies and like The idea that there's some missing models from horos heresy or whatever. Yeah, okay great. That means sure I don't I'm not saying they'll have every model launch, but you're crazy You're crazy if you think they're just gonna be like, okay, just go use all your old models people who bought that 15 years ago No need to change Right, like if they're selling a game they have to sell models Right news slash folks High elves have been discontinued Like they're going to offer current ranges for these things that have been discontinued And that will mean updating many of these ranges and new armies and stuff like that Some will be reimagined some like and by the way, I'm not saying at the same time either that they trash everything you had Because I don't think that's true either Okay, I think that you can put you'll play a little bit dwarves on the table You'll be able to put you know, like humans like free cities like You know what I'm saying empire, um But they discontinued a lot of stuff Right, and so like they are going to have to produce models for this thing You're right and like the Absolutely, so I mean to just like will you be able to use your whole everything? I have no idea Will you be able to use some of the old things? Any of the old things my guess would be yes, probably some even if only as proxies But in some way just because it would create too much acrimony if they just literally said, okay We were just kidding now throw everything in the bin But I think the focus will certainly be on new stuff They want to sell models. Let's go back to principle number one. They want to sell models And what better way to sell models To sell models for this new game Then to double dip with the old game And by the old game, I mean aos Sure, like the new game being the old world And what they will do is they will have models in the aos range that people can dip into Yeah, so and I want to so just moving on from the comments here. I'm gonna I'm gonna we're gonna keep going Yeah Okay, and and this is all gonna be like this is all theory and speculation based on, you know, best guesses, of course Tom or I know nothing about this, right Gw seems to know nothing about this Right, sure So The question then becomes and I saw somebody said this well, it's not just about selling models I didn't say that I said they're a model company and they like selling models So they're gonna make sure they can right, but there's a second reason to do this So let's talk about the why tom. This is a fascinating question to me. Let's dig into this. This has been the most common question I've seen right right why now Why at this moment? Why announce this now? Why say this three to four years at minimum before this happens? Why announce something now that's going to come out in 2023? Let's say why Because that is what the because in a brainstorming session of what next steps for the growth of aos are This is the next step Not unlike horse heresy and 40k Like if if they're blowing if they're continuing like so if I'm a product developer I'm gonna look at our line and say how do I continue to grow our brand, right? Sure. Yep And and so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna look at the things that we have that have succeeded And I'm gonna go, okay Um Well, I have this a oh, you know like I have a less how do we make it more like 40k or how do we make it like What's been successful out of 40k and I'm gonna go well, they have 40s heresy What do we have for war hammer fan or war hammer or age of sigma and somebody will go well They have old war um, so that's one piece of it is just a very pragmatic piece um, I I think another piece of it is just simply um, this is one of like I don't want to say this um They need something for forge world to do that that appeals to fantasy Sure, also true And so like like and so the question is just do they make do they turn forge world into like a niche army builder for Aos and the question is is I don't know that that's going to be what they want to do For a variety of reasons and so, you know, they need to give them their own thing And this is a product that arguably wouldn't compete directly with aos and I think that's the key Like if they gave them mordheim that feels like that's going to compete with war cry sure Yeah Maybe maybe eight nine years down the line after this then they do a right version for that sure But that's not what this is. Okay. Um, let me let me let me do you mind if I just chart out some stuff here, tom Yes, that's fine. Uh, are you going to talk about total war now? No, I'm going to talk about why now Well, yes, that's part of it. Okay. Yeah, so yeah, yeah So let me let me chart out a whole world of possibilities I put a lot of thought into this one because the why is the big question. I so I literally wrote down about it I spent that day writing down my thoughts about this because everybody's got their opinion Everybody's like it's definitely to do this. I know because I'm sure I'm a smart person Okay, uh We're all smart Uh, here are some potentialities one It's a defensive move. So I see this one pretty common like kings of war third edition new ninth age Marvel crisis launching right lots of other hype On on on things that are coming out, especially things that would directly compete with it like ko w or t9a, right? So that's a defensive move in the market. Okay. So sure, maybe So here's another one Exactly what you said. I completely agree. Like this is just the next natural extension for our product, right? All right, there we go. We're back okay, so The next thing they could do so this could just be the the uh This could just be the come see the softer side of sears, right? Yeah tapping into an untamed market or an untapped market Untapped market. Yep, which is your old school warrior fantasy players people who refuse to come over People who want to rank and flank game, you know, all those people who have those litmus test issues that aos will never cross It's a rubicon. They'll never cross right. This gives them a thing to sell to them Right. Okay. It also shores up a week. It shores up a critique of them as a company. Sure Uh, here's it. Here's another option Just another interesting hype train to keep community engagement and involvement high somebody mentioned this in the chat And and this is an interesting take as well Like the idea that since the sister's thing has come to an end and it was pretty positive in generating a regular buzz and interest Yeah, this will be a new thing that does that right? It's a regular point of of conversation Right. Okay. So, um, those would be more offensive moves, right? Right, right. Here's another possibility They're just they've they've they're transition. They're continuing their transition in radical transparency Right, right. They've said that they want to open up more transparency. They're giving us more insight into things as they're being delivered They're not going to talk about like armies at the same way more than a couple months out or give you that But when it's a major project like this, maybe this is just what they'll do now Maybe a year in advance of the next version of aos They actually start talking about that a year in advance, right and it invite a lot more public participation I'm just like it's a possibility. Yeah Yep. Yep. The next one is yes the total war thing right total war vermin tide, whatever all these games where it's just another way to Have people draw interest in right for to have to give those people a connection point right yeah so like all of these are possible and From my experience in working in a company and looking at making a major move like this Like there were many spreadsheets and business cases and powerpoint presentations And what happened is a bunch of different upsides went up Right, like somebody made a powerpoint presentation that said here's our upsides One gives us a way to push against kings of war in ninth age two helps us expand into untapped markets three Gives us a reach into client bases that we haven't reached for several years because they're You know, they're they're unwilling to cross the rubicon of aos for various reasons They don't like the the aos style of fantasy or they want to rank and flank etc Two increases our our visible transparency and public Facing communication and involves and builds the community, which by the way, I don't think they're against at all Like that's not being that's not being self-serving. That's a good thing Right, like they should seek after that Uh, by the way, this also so this just they could like the the powerpoint presentation that the leader gave the ball Whoever, you know thought this up Could have just said everything could have just said all this Right, uh, there's another there's another there's another factor that I think that probably was a real factor. Sure. Um, and that is the perpetual um, uh Gordian knot that is warhammer legends Sure Yeah, yeah, and and that this actually gives them a very clear handoff Because they don't have to worry about legends anymore Right like if this thing exists Legends doesn't need to sure sure sure they can just shuffle eventually anything they don't want over into that Game right and say it's right over here and it now has a home for all that and yes I agree permanent home for all the legends stuff, right? And my guess is they threw up that powerpoint that said upsides and then you switch the Oh for god sakes. Is this really gonna keep happening this regularly? No, there we go and we're back instantly. Okay I'm gonna figure this out If I could if I could fix it right now, I would but I'll fix it. I know you would I know you would Uh at any rate the um Okay, so two risks one competing with ourself. Well, that's what people have said Why would you compete with yourself? Right people have said this I've seen this I saw this in many comments. Oh, I agree Okay Uh Why would you compete with yourself? Right There's a very simple answer. You're not competing with yourself Your you are being both products on the market There are several famous cases where when you had a market leader The way that they fended off competition was by creating their own competition They created a competitive product to themselves And then took both the number one and two slot in the market Okay, not unlike fantasy and uh And 40k for the longest time sure for the for the long time like that those were the top war game selling, you know Uh shugger notes sure and and like you can look at the upsides I talked about before Right of like it can help pull it the the hope would be First of all, they don't care if they somewhat split the community. What does it matter to them? Right as long as you're buying their models They don't care which line of models you're buying. Yes, I've heard this same argument in my own professional career When I when I've been in because I I'm in product development for a long time And people often say well, are we competing with ourselves? And I'll be like, I don't care as long as people are buying stuff from us Who cares? Okay And like that's that is simply a sort of existential quality of this And obviously their hope is that they can they can grow the total audience Right with with basically no downside risk of losing people if people move over and go buy stuff from their other product line They care as much as they care when people switch from aos to 40k or 40k to aos. It's it's an irrelevant thing right, right This is just expanding their potential market share it's it's And if you look at what they've done I agree like part of what I agree with you if you look at what they've done over the past couple years They've been exploring their own vertical and horizontal integration Right, right, like we all remember our our lessons about vertical and horizontal integration Like when you look at something like 40k, they had the main game then they gave you apocalypse and then they gave you Uh Kill team so you have this vertical way to play the game and then there's you know horizontal They've got horse heresy and other types of touches like that. They want to do the same thing here in aos and it makes sense. Cool Right and so I I completely agree without Allathe I don't know how to say your name allatheists But even if even if they were to partially split their customer base I would I would argue that the groan community and the non insignificant portion that would do both would You know, you're gonna you're definitely gaining more than you lose there, right? Right. It's just a win Right. Absolutely Okay, so that's sort of downside risk number one downside risk number two is this idea of like splitting the community Right, like the idea that I've seen this events from a lot of aos players like well, we have a good community We don't want to see it messed up or something whatever that means I don't even know what that means, but okay So my argument would be I'm not Well, I think the idea would be if I can if I can frame this in a way that I don't agree with But let me see if I can play the devil's advocate for a moment. Right. Please don't take these as my words, but Here we go. But as as a representative position as a representative straw man position. Yes Uh, okay So the concern for the community is look when we went to aos The reality is there were a bunch of people who were kind of bad Actors in the community that quit playing And the people who stayed and who have joined in have joined with a lot of enthusiasm and fervor and we built From the ground up a solid enthusiastic community right And that now bringing back these bad actors will somehow poison the well Right, right Especially when you consider that there is some inemnity between the people who are diehard Old hammer wear emmer fantasy battles, you know, whatever you want to say players, right versus Versus those who who were playing aos Yeah Okay, so that's sort of the position to be staked out One if I'm them if I'm gw. I'm not sure I really care Right, right like I'm concerned with the larger community playing my games in total Not really with how either any one of them sees the other one Like so that's number one Uh, number two Would be I'm not sure that I'm worried about that at all And and here's what I mean the people who are truly those like bad actors. They're probably just gone for good You know what I mean like if they're really like that and they're poisoning other games Yeah, sure. They're over. Yeah, they're over being bad actors in other games now And just growing the community of people who are playing like I think there's a lot of Uh, there's a lot of people who are just excited to have a thing to play that speaks to them And for the most part it's a good group of people who are going to show up and be enthusiastic about their game Some of them will come in and also play aos Some of the aos people will also go play whatever this is whatever whatever this game ends up being And for the most part, yes, there'll be some back and forth internet meming at each other Right and my answer to that is Who cares the internet isn't real in that way, right? Like that's back and forth meming isn't real That's just that's just people being 12 Like well and any there is a sense into which any publicity truly is good publicity Sure And so like that's just that moves their game to the spotlight regardless Yeah, I mean my point is is that there's plenty of like like To I'm there's no way you can paint with some broad brush like that and say Everybody who's interested in this or who's only who liked, you know, wearing her fantasy battles or you know Was unwilling to come play aos as a toxic person. That's nonsense. That's just complete nonsense Right There are always going to be bad actors in any community It's the the community if it's good will eventually sort of purge them because it'll remain positive And I have no doubt that like bringing in whatever this game is Will bring in a bunch of good people who are excited about the game. They're playing and that's awesome so can I be a Can I be a jaded negative Nancy? and Present an alternative Possibility by the why now Or do you want to keep going down the thread? No, I'll just say like I just oh, let me answer a comment real quick here Yeah, somebody said it's annoying to to see them interject and claim gw is reversing on aos look Dumb people on the internet say dumb things I don't know what else to tell you My best advice for you in all aspects of your life Is to not let the internet become your reality Right like those kinds of negative posts are infectious and just not good for your mental health In in modern society. And by the way, this isn't just worry related. This is just life related, right? Uh, there's no reason you have to you have to let that shape your output. Just don't read that stuff. Just don't go there Curate your feeds keep the people you have positive that doesn't mean that it's only agreeing with you that just means positive and Uh, and and you'll be fine and sure are people going to be annoying? Yes on both sides of the aisle and I will ignore all of them. So There you go Alitha said dumb people say dumb things on the internet or not agreed But when a dumb person says something three states over and they just say it out loud I don't hear them when they say it on the internet I could that was my only point Yeah, go ahead jade away So another possibility for rank here go ahead. Yeah, so another possibility for the why now world Is because this is what it's going to take for them to prepare for the next stage of of aos evolution. Okay So What happens? What did I say happens in three to four years? A new version of aos. Sure. You're you're whatever Let's call it 3.0. Why not? So then let me ask a question when We get four years down the road How hype do you think that gw is going to be about to release another city's book with 15 year old models? Uh, or or probably some of the kits 20 plus year old model Sure, you're saying when we get to the next cycle of this four to five years from now And some of these kits have aged even farther Right Do we keep making books with all this this with all these old minis hanging on here's a better example Maybe maybe you could argue. Yes, they're fine with doing it for cities because they already trimmed a bunch Switched to scaven and there you go. Right. Okay. There's a great argument for you And and the reality is is that like they have a really deep bench of models now that are aos specific In four years because what did we just do we just completed the entire cycle of current armies in a year and a half with arguably Two and a half or less. I would act more or less two and a half years to be very fair But okay, so we have a year and a half to two and a half years right of aos two left Like on average like looking at the standard cycles like the energy could be longer could be shorter Let's let's let's round up and say three years. Sure. Okay. Well two and a half just simply because Uh, they release in summer and we're at the halfway point So two and a half or three and a half here. Yep. Okay So In this world We're gonna have probably realistically we're gonna have a solid two years folks of new releases Yeah, right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just simply new armies Well, and so hold on some of it will still be like Additional armies that haven't been touched sure like clan molder You know a clan molder book or a or whatever that can be like expansions or growth or whatever. Yeah, yeah, sure They're not all they don't all need to be cut from whole cloth. But yes But the point here though is that like we may be in a space Where like they can just cycle out sarapan Oh, you're saying like they just literally can them out of this game and scoot them to the other one Right, and they're just lizard bin in that other game. Sure. Sure. Like and I know like like I know that people like Want to rear up defensively, but like maybe this is their exit strategy For the remains of the aos line that are hold on from fantasy Uh, I I mean, I I think I I'm I'm speculating and like and again I'm being somewhat cynical here because what it's basically saying is is they want to retire half of your collection and they and they and they also recognize the long like the the the social Like tension of that and if if and legends needs to be functional if it's going to have a landing spot And so maybe what they're doing is saying let's create a real landing spot for it I I just don't think they have your view of how they cycle forces is just incorrectly fast chaos warriors are finally getting cycled after 20 x years Sure, I mean like it's like and by the way replaced with just better versions of the same model Like I don't think they have that. I hear that I hear that I also have kits up there that were literally cycled after five years I have a I have two kids over there that were cycled in a in a year and a half It can happen, but it's extremely rare like yeah, let's check the skew list Like go check the skew list of skews in original publication years still out there and like the the average age of those kits would be Way higher than that man Way, no, I I hear that I hear that Um and all I'm all I'm suggesting is that this could be another like another bullet point in the list of Ways, which they can help transition not they're saying they're going to retire your magus Your magus lords or whatever out of nergal But just simply that that a lot of this and even some of the name characters that probably need to be transitioned out Or like the griffin that has carl fran's written all over him um Like it's just very natural landing spots for that kind of stuff Yeah, like my point is is that I I don't disagree with you It gives them a landing pad for when they need it because nothing then has to be retired and useless And undoubtedly as people have said there will be double dipping I don't think there's I think that they will have some amount of double dipping like some of the armies that are still around I think it would only make sense if they're usable in both games, right? Right, right. Sure. Sure. Sure. Of course And so like I'm not trying to be negative here But I'm just simply trying to acknowledge that that like there are some other reasons as to why now Because they've promised this four year out when we may have an addition change or a round when we would have an addition change And so like if things if they aggressively cycle some armies skaven, for example Or you know, they or they or they basically refresh the entire line They can point to that other thing that you still have an army for Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. If the need would arise, right? Like well, we want we want to can this whole thing and redo it But don't worry all your old models just go to this game and here stays here. Sure. Sure. Sure, right Okay, I want to address something real quick So brandon had said to keep thinking this isn't going to be as huge as people think It will probably be just a box set a single index army book and some movement trades Uh, so uh, brandon, I love you. Let me tell you why you're wrong It doesn't take three years to make that and you don't hype it up like this And like what they're trying to create here is a new line Right. They're trying to create a new line on par like they're looking down the track At one thing I do definitely agree with is they're looking down the track and saying What's our revenue stream look like in three years with this stuff? And what can we interject that becomes a new reliable revenue stream, right? Yes That helps. How do we diversify our bit? How do we diversify our base? Yeah Absolutely. Yep. Yeah So like it just that's not that's not how things would go Like if that was what they were going to release you would have seen the announcement that like Oh, we're doing this fun thing and it's going to come next year and whatever whatever it wouldn't be on a random sunday They would have announced it like adept kind of would have been like this summer We're doing a little special box set release and right here you go Have fun and this is a little bone. We're throwing you and whatever who cares, right? Um So Yes, somebody said the chaos warriors kid is from o3. Thank you. So it's only 16 to 17 years old. I apologize. Um, yeah, sure Which is which is what I said like a lot like that what I proposed was that some kids that are 10 years old are 15 years old Or whatever, you know our 12 or to 15 years old. Yeah, like those are the numbers that I gave they want to keep reusing these figs As long as they can because the molds are 100,000 to 500,000 dollars a piece So like yep, totally agree. Yeah, totally agree. Like I tend to break down as much Right the plastic molds Right and like let me also point out gw is getting like they are They, uh, like they have increased significantly their warehousing and production capabilities like this last year Like we know that Like that's that's been like they invested in the infrastructure of knottingham. I believe was one of the reports Yeah, yeah, hold on I want to touch a lore thing here tom because you and I talked about this. I actually want you to go on your little rant From earlier today. Okay, so two lore related things Let's skip to lore for a second because by the way again just to repeat for all the people who joined Uh This we have no idea We have one we have no idea But they in no part of this announcement said we're bringing back warhammer fantasy battles. That is not what they said They said we're bringing out this new thing called warhammer the old world Very different thing and the article is all about lore Okay, um So, uh Okay, let's let me so let me touch this thing real quick here that somebody mentioned lore. Let me find it real quick Oh, here it is. So alathea said I don't think they can retcon the end times the upsetting the aos lore nerds And uh, orange crow barman said what if archion lost in the world wasn't destroyed? I wager that's how they played out. I disagree I think that just like the horrors heresy we all knew how it ended Emperor's gonna end up as a little skull man on his on his little throne and like this only ends one way But that doesn't matter knowing the ending to a story hasn't made like the horrors heresy not be full of like bestselling Novels, right? Everybody knows the end But the story is still compelling And well the reality is we got told the story at a high level by unreliable narrators. So Tom yes So like so they here here was one of my pitches like there's a couple different ways you go this So let's say that they set the main sequence in the end times Okay, as vince said like we know what the ending was what the result was. Let me say it that way um But part of what has been interesting about the horrors heresy novel or like the stories as they've been doing these releases Is that like it seems like like we've had an unreliable narrator Or like we don't know all the twists and turns or the twists and turns we think we know We don't actually know like that's been part of the staple of the releases of the horrors heresy stuff from what I hear I'm not into that stuff um And so my question is is what if we get a horrors heresy style retelling of the end times But with the suggestion that the current account that we have of the end times i.e the end times lord that we have like in the big books that were released Every single one of which was from an unreliable narrator every one. Yes Every single one of them was from an unrivaled narrator And it was almost like and what like the only remnant that we have of that world are from the winners or survivors sigmar negash techless allorial all of them super invested in what they themselves are doing right um, so what if we had what if we had uh, But what if it's not what happened or what not what actually happened And maybe from their perspective what they think happened, but maybe that's you know, maybe the story that we get told is Maybe there's it. Let me say this way. Maybe there's a narrator Who is disenfranchised? Who knows the truth? Who maybe was scapegoated? in the end times as a villain as a bad actor, but in fact Like he now is telling recounting the tale the true tale Of maybe the heroes weren't the heroes that we thought they were Maybe that there was corrupt chaos corruption amongst some of the factions or k heroes in a way that led to the end That we hadn't been told but in my example But tom who would this strange hero possibly be who could be the person who was so maligned throughout the end times Uh, that that then suddenly has a chance to retell the story from a different perspective. Who could we look to tom? It's manfred Manfred is the answer. Yeah, because like hence the like hashtag dammit manfred You guys remember that from four years ago. Like the reality is is that like he was the like perennial bad actor He ruined it. He failed, you know, like and what if he's like that that's not how that went down Right that suddenly becomes super interesting Yeah, if if techless maybe wasn't as bad of a you know, like as bad of a planner as we thought Well, manfred's also one of the few that you never you don't really operate from his perspective very much in the ever books I did what 50 hours of the end times like you can go back and look on forge a wonder channel He and I and others did every single chapter of the end time stories blow by blow and the reality is Uh, it was a very small part of the story that was actually told Right in the same way that like in the Horus heresy. We we know the big beats this this battle this big battle this big battle this big battle Emperor stabby stabby ow Horus whatever, right? Yeah, but like a lot of the the novels and the exploration is into, you know Other corners other fronts other things that were going on other characters All these people that introduced it enriched the story and there's so much of the world Uh, you know the example I would give is if you've ever played lord of the rings online Right. Yeah Like we all know the story of lord of the rings like it's those nine people and they go down and uh a little Short guy throws a ring into a a volcano with the help of a different other short guy, right? And that's so compelling a super compelling story, um, but like the Lord of the rings online told this other story that weaved you into the plot in a very organic way Where you were seeing but sometimes you were ahead of their fellowship Sometimes you were behind them. Sometimes you were seeing the remnants of what they do Sometimes you were setting it up so they could be successful, right? Like all these different things happening in and around the story and and all of that is still very, uh Open open to do with the end times war, right? Yeah, and and like and it's interesting because like manford was actually there for a lot of key moments. Sure But the keyest of moments. Yes the keyest of moments like but i'm like negash and his his resurrection like the various invasion stuff with the empire Like he was present in a lot of spaces a lot of spaces. He would have a very unique, uh interaction and perspective on fly Sure, uh, what i'll say is somebody asked the question of do we know this is even going to be set before the end times? Yes, at least by all accounts of how they describe it in the article that seems to be a thing that's pretty solid So, I mean we could be in a world of like shattered reality Like part of what happened shattered reality itself and so maybe there's a shard, uh alternate split timeline blah blah blah Who knows? um But I think it would be super compelling and by the way the reason why you don't do thank well Who's like a very significant member of the scaven like? uh council folks And the reason why you don't do a l'oreal or tech list or any of those is because those are people with power in the new world What you want is you want a narrator that is functionally like a henchman sure who who was there Right, but isn't vested in the narratives that are being spun. Yeah Uh, and and I think man for and and that was maligned For their involvement, you know like that and I think manford fits that bill really well Yep And yeah, so some people are talking about in the comments We mentioned the fact that at the top so for those who joined in her talking about this We mentioned at the top that we don't know what scale this is. It could be any scale Like it could be yeah, it could be we're all just assuming that it's full scale, but uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna put my I'm gonna put my uh I'm going to put my Flag down and say that it's not alternate scale that it is actually the current scale And here's why we just give too much crossover. They learned their lesson from real inquisition and other things Yep, and if people want to use like buy kits from this Line and use their aos conversions. They want to incentivize that. Yeah, so like I don't think there's going to be an alternate scale I think it's going to be the same um as a closing note. Let me just say this gw. We're not closing yet No, I'm closing your story. Okay. My story of manfred Um gw if you've made it this far into the video um It's yours Sure, I for I formally relinquish relinquish all rights that p you can have it to this idea. Okay. Yes Got it. Yes check Uh, we we you do that automatically tom when you put something on the internet under what's called a creative commons license Which is what all these videos go under so they can steal this and it's not That's actually how that works, but i'm letting them know they can have it sure Yeah, I mean the the fact the fact patterns we have to go off of as they talked about it being You know before the world blew up and they talked about it being as horse heresy as to 40k So it's a reasonable and like the big story Yeah, and the big story of the old world is the end times Yeah, like that is the horse heresy of fantasy or of aos Like it is the thing that led to the current situation And that's kind of the point of of the reason why things are so dark and you know like the emperor and all that's You know like went off the rails is because of the horse heresy sure and so arguably like that's That's what the end times is It's yeah, yep So, okay, let's uh, here's I want to tackle another question that came up some on some of the other discussions from from aos folks Why do this in age of sigmar and not sorry? Why do this in the old world and not in the age of myth? Because I saw a lot of people talk about the age of myth is like early aos history. It's a very cool period It's largely unknown unexplored. It's completely, you know green field territory to write any story you want And have lots of different interesting things going on Why go back to this? Previous well when you have this new one to explore why not the age of myth because there's a lot of people Like obviously self selecting aos people saying well, we would have loved the age of myth. Okay. Yeah, so why tom? Why do we not do the age of myth? Because it doesn't do the it doesn't do it doesn't accomplish a number of those boxes that we ticked off Right. It doesn't it doesn't provide uh cross promotional opportunities with um with uh total war Right, like they have an entire customer base there that that want to buy into their tabletop game and and and do this thing So they need to be able to land them somewhere the age of myth isn't that they have a lot of like lore an ip that they've developed books um And like just content like volumes and volumes of content uh They can just resell that to you rather than developing new. Yeah, like obviously repackage and stuff like that I agree Like it just doesn't tap the same market. You're right Like from the boxes that I laid out earlier of all the potential potential upsides, right? It's just not ticking the same number of boxes Like if you if you made that presentation to me and threw both on a slide And by the way, there's probably a version of this presentation where it was on there Right. Yeah, and it was one of the possibilities for expansion Okay, can I can I throw out another really interesting like, uh, Analyzing idea. Yeah, sure um gw sporadic made to order we uh pre-order weeks. Yeah, sure We're testing this concept Oh, like testing the sales of these kinds of older things Not only that they were testing the so imagine a world. I was just gauging general interest. Okay Okay, so imagine a world where they say um In uh next month, you'll be able to order uh a brand new Uh, give me an army that's been discontinued. Um, Bretonian army, there we go. Um, next month, I think Bretonian I think we'll have new models for that, but let's just say hypothetically um, they say because the models aren't Because the models for Bretonia other than like the questing knights just aren't actually very good Right, right. Um, but but like but you know how they did the like the made to order for uh, Like the dwarves like heroes of the old world and stuff like that And so they did like uh, like I got my thorogrome power throne specifically because they like cycled through that Um, and what my proposal is is like they were testing the ground there of a new way of product production Right where they basically like create a limited window where you can order made to order these armies And then they pull it from the market so like think about disney How disney does or they previously had done their vaults. Yeah, sure Where like disney what they would do is they'd say like this movie's in the vault. You can't buy it right now Yeah, yeah So what's your point that that's how that would be their marketing strategy for it? No, but that some of these armies like it doesn't make sense for them to produce massively volumes of stuff But a lot of them they still have the molds for the old kits Right And so rather than taking inventory Like what like what we saw with the ordering strategies Of the made to order weekends Where they make something available for one or two weeks of order and then they basically say in in eight weeks We'll have this on your doorstep. Yep Um with like so limited limited order eight week lead time Limited commitment on gw's part. Yes. So how does that relate to the old world? That they can bring back these collections of like high elves Like let's say that they that they do a like even though that they don't metal because they can run short runs of metal With the plastic things they've discontinued. You'd keep they're not going to run short runs of those It's a different it's a different thing. Sure. Sure. And that's fine That's fine Uh, they can still bring back some of these kits and availability in these cycles in these release cycles that they've demonstrated They can do with the made to order stuff. Sure. You're saying just as a supplement once the thing releases with its new pigs and whatever Right, right. Okay. Maybe sure. Sure. Okay That's fine. Let's let's say sure Uh, yeah, I mean made orders a thing if you if you have like Uh, the the like silicone molds that you pour Uh pewter into or whatever, you know, the metal that they're making them out of it's like they're really cheap and they eventually die So like it's fine. Okay. Um Sure, by the way, I saw somebody mentioned the the worry about the split of the community I wouldn't worry about it. I really wouldn't I'm not worried about that We we we did track this earlier. I'll just re-mention it now because we've had a lot of people join in um like The community grows by more people jumping in more people will come like when more people come to play with Whatever this game ends up being some will go play with it. Some will come back Some will join into this and it'll be a fun little back and forth, right? And that's fine. And will there be internet sniping? Yes, and who cares don't let it poison your experience if your community strong your community will be strong and it's not a problem So there you go. Okay Uh, all right So All right, what haven't we touched on yet? I'm going through all my notes Uh, okay So launching with those models Uh, yeah, the there will like I don't know. I know I don't know it for a fact But I know it's true is the there will be new model ranges because that's what this company is for and that's why this takes three years Right, right if it was just a book They wouldn't just do that. They would just like books produce faster than that Models take this long because they have to conceive the game Write the rules concept all the armies that they want to do how it flats out how it fits into those things Decide what the new sculpts are do the art do the you know do the actual sculpts Put them in to build the molds put them into production like it's a long road to launch a completely new game Hence why it's easily 2023 before this thing comes out, right? so Okay, uh, and that's the the why so let's get into just some let's tom. Let's get into Wild speculation Oh, I love wild speculation speculation. That's my wheelhouse right on um Oh, so this is so this will be a fun transition into wild speculation. Let's start with a viewer question What do you think the chances are they add armies that weren't or were discontinued in the original Warhammer fantasy battles like nippon kiss live cathay arabi like all that you know, whatever whatever dogs war you could pick your poison, right the other things uh That they the other armies that really weren't the main armies top High high high probability. Agreed totally high probability. They explore some of that stuff because why wouldn't you? Right, that would be the whole point, right? They're they're finally It's boring to release the same things. Yeah, absolutely. They're not especially just remaking the exact same high elves again Right, and there will be for those high elves, but they'll probably be new sculpts, but that's not all they're gonna make Right, uh, like but like if they release high elves, you're gonna see like the like the force from koth weak um or a kothique which is like the uh the like one weird fish one Right like in teal with teal colors like that like that's what's happening here Sure, and and i agree somebody mentioned like and you wouldn't see them without rebranding Well, of course Yes, of course, you would see them rebranded like but they'd still have the same kind of idea There's nothing innately unique about like they can say it's a kathayan army It's the unit names that they want to be unique Right like there's space marine itself. That was the whole point. That isn't a unique term But that's why you have intercessors and interlocutors and every other thing that exists now aggressors You know, that's why stormcast there are retributors and like whatever whatever like they can come up with clever names for this for this force, right Like they wouldn't just call it kathay They would call it like the blah blah blah of kathay and it would have these various things in it, you know And like sure like the right just leave the righteous honorable legion of kathay or something sure man. Why not? Why not just layering adjectives? Exactly like they'll they'll certainly do that stuff, right? um Okay, let's talk about the basing. This is everybody's big concern Oh, yeah, the basing thing. I just went to rounds. Am I gonna have to go back to squares? No, because aos will stay on you don't have to play this game and you don't have to play this game Yeah, so like what are you talking about? And by the way, if it's going to if if it ends up being a rank and flank game Okay, if yep, which I would imagine it will be because I think it will make the most sense to appeal to the poor market When we look at like the the the reasons that I charted of why you would do a project like this Yep Then the natural extension is you make a rank and flank game because that meets your competition directly now That's that's not blue water. That's very red water. They're just hoping they're the biggest shark Yeah, they're just entering into a well trod market Right And so like, you know, there's there's two ways you do business either you go into either you go into blue ocean Or you go into red ocean and hope you're the biggest predator Right, which which let me just say that like arguably aos was more blue ocean what they did. Oh, sure. Absolutely I think we did a whole video about calling aos blue ocean thinking. Yes, absolutely um But at any rate There's no world I can see where they Make this game and put it in rank and flank and don't have little adapters like they do for Lord of the Rings or whatever else right like in what universe would they not do that how they just sold you They're they're selling you a little rubber thing that holds three of these So that you so that you don't knock your shade pots over As opposed to fixing the design of the thing right Why in the world? Would you think they wouldn't want to sell you that stuff too and have you use the models and increase the potential size of their player base So you also then come buy the new figs they're making right Like yes, of course, they'd love crossover Um for the same way that by the you know by the buy there's a lot of things There's you know a major amount not completely but a major amount of crossover between models in horos heresy and Uh and 40k right now there are some exceptions like obviously the prime arcs and stuff You don't you can't play them in 40k, but you know like there's a lot of crossover You can just have different mark aren't different mark armors, right? Right? Um, so Like a hundred percent Uh, they would you know, that's like will that game be on squares will they sell those models on I have no idea. I really couldn't guess. I mean if I was them I would be doing some hardcore financial calculations about how much would we piss people off by putting these Do we do we lose more in sales for people that absolutely only want square bases? Then we gain by being able to just not print all square bases right just being able to can that entire That entire line of printing Right and well and make one type of base. I mean, I think the joke originally was like all things, you know come around, right? Uh, even square bases like become around and so I think the point is that like uh I think but is that never ever marketing term or is that no my money is this uh What you will have is you will have round bases uh on everything and then uh units When things are parts of units will be on trays that are squares Okay, so an individual model still has a round base And so individual models have round bases. So like skirmishers and individual units heroes monsters Oh, I forgot to do our official introduction of this segment, which is ring a ding ding will predict a thing Okay, so go ahead and continue Yep, and so then like individual actors You know like what traditionally was like skirmish and stuff like that are all on rounds, right? Yeah, this is and as somebody pointed out. Yes. It's a song of ice and fire style as well as like Several other games, but yes And so they do both like they taco they taco girl it where like they integrate it into the current world they allow you to move between systems And they also force people on to squares Like and by squares. I mean large square bases i.e. movement rates Sure That's my call. Okay, fair enough Uh, all right, uh, what other wild predictions do you have tom? Uh that we are going to get two very clear new lines Or that or the two very early like launches or or reimagines are going to be tune kings and um And brittonians and they will be new sculpts put out by fortress Okay Awesome. There you go. That's that's predicting a thing That they will be sisters of silence like that's That's launching into the new world Because they're not gambling with those things. Mm-hmm. Sure Um, they know there's a market And what better to relaunch the old world than finally giving people brittonians Yeah, I'd love to see what they can do with designing those knights now Like they would be so much better and like I know people have a lot of nostalgic love for those brittonian knights Look, I own a whole army. I wanted to take a picture of my new cabinet where I set up I just set up new cabinets out of my office. Yep Or out of my office in my in my other room and I moved all of my dead armies in there So like all the tomb kings went on there and the brittonians have this whole beautiful shelf and like I mean I have bigger armies of these armies than Most people many people. I don't know if any like there's got to be somebody in the world who has a bigger tomb kings army than me But there's not many You know, I love that stuff. Okay, right like I'm not in any way opposed to this stuff So please don't take me as bagging on these things. I have I love all the brittonian knights. I painted. I thought they were beautiful but They're like not that good and not enough people bought them to sustain it before Uh, the sculpts have aged poorly I like take off the rose colored glasses for a moment and really look at those horses And see all of the like bad parts of the sculpt that just aren't Quality anymore like this is you wouldn't have a modern sculpt that looks like that Right, right and and so I think that like I think that we're in a world where like that's what gets relaunched because of the pent up demand like Well, and also it's a good test. Is there real pent up demand for those two armies? I'm interested to see Because they were two of the least popular armies in warhammer fantasy Right, right. Yep. Yep. And so like either it's true that like there's an extremely vocal minority possible Yep, uh And so like yes people get them or it truly is a sister's thing Where like there's a lot of people ready to line up and spend money And by the way, it could be that a turns in to be with an appropriate hype train Right, like I don't know how many people were actually legitimately interested in plastic sisters But whatever they've done here They managed to build up into people like losing their minds over this stuff, right? Yep, and there was there was a bit rocky on the road to that but it's happened um So I don't know like it's one of those things where like I'm not really sure on those if if I was gonna like Maybe they redo those. Maybe they don't I don't know if I agree with your prediction But what I will say is they will definitely take a swing with some new armies Right because like and I think like nippon is a really low hanging fruit there Or a new dogs of war because then that's got a little bit of concept But I've been around since fifth edition and like the concept of a mercenary force Could be anything Without violating any lore right because we certainly didn't see all the dogs of war in the dogs of war Right sure sure like right Yeah, so, you know, whatever um So like they can do lots of interesting Things to sort of drive the demand to bring people along on the production test how much of a market there really is You know, like there's there's interesting ways to see To that they've now figured out that they can like market this Yeah, yep Um, and then where they could build interest and and certainly explore new space Okay Yeah And and yes, I don't like will this be in plastic or resin? Like will it be forge rolled or or, you know the horse heresy style or largely resin? I got no idea I wouldn't even take a swing at that guess like right. Yeah, I'm not guessing that no I I I wouldn't even lay a prediction on that It's just impossible to say Right, uh, I do agree with spongy paint who said excellent another place to play all my chaos demons Chaos demons continuing to win always. They're useful in every game And use them everywhere. It's great. It's it being a chaos demon player is always a great day You get to play in all the games um All right, so, uh What uh, what else what else have we got man? What else we got here on predictions or thoughts? Uh, I am I know where I want to end this but I I've got a but I want to get through all this first Uh, I mean, I am super excited by the possibility like put it this way. I don't care about their zombie game Their zombie game Yeah, I just don't like I don't care about the old world Oh, you're saying like the old world has no interest to you personally is what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, like it's but But here's the deal if they drop tomb kings um, I'm buying models Right like I love that army and what I'll do is I'll convert it over and like they will immediately pull You know like they'll immediately pull me in as a customer And I'll like be able to realize some projects that I haven't gotten to to realize Um because of the new sculpts and so what I would say is um Yeah, like I think that uh, I think that there's a lot of gas in those some of those concepts Uh, like a nippon ninja force like yeah, there's gas there so sure All right, cool I'll move to my emotional summation too, which is this like we have started on emotion and Emotion because I think we've cracked through most of the the major discussion points of what we have over this very short article um So one I say I'll repeat some key Elements of this we have no idea what this is going to be. We can make assumptions There's no single reason this was done But a lot of reasons you don't make a major move like this Without actually having lots of good reasons to do it and knowing you're tackling your downside risk And counting the cost and counting the cost Uh, I'm not worried about the community the aos community has come up and been incredibly strong. It's great It's resilient. I just no reason it goes anywhere just because another game gets introduced like Yes, there can be sniping back and forth between 40k and Horace heresy people. Yes, there will be sniping back and forth between Uh, like the old world people and aos people and they'll be there'll be memes that hurt your heart They make your heart hurt so much when you look at the mean meme on the internet And uh, my advice is to not look at the mean memes on the internet and to scan by and And like continue engaging in all the positive wonderful parts of the community and going to events and And continuing to celebrate your hobby with a positive passion Which is what we've always been about and what I think has So many in this in this community are now about and I hope that Players who come back are about the same thing with their own with their own uh game with the old world Whatever that is there's nothing nothing about that has to be negative Right. I agree with you that I have zero interest in this my my personal my personal interest right now is at Zero like literally the needle didn't move right And that's because like on a personal level and this is my own opinion. It does not a judgment on yours Okay, so let's be super clear here. We can like different things. You can like what you like and that's all right I have no interest in the old world I kept up this picture of the apocalypse of the old world the whole time Because it was the best thing that ever happened to my warhammer career. I didn't like the old world. I found it to be personal opinion derivative boring fantasy okay But in the same way I find most fantasy like that Most of the forgotten realms in dnd. I would say I would give the exact same opinion on Okay, right like there's no Difference there, but if it's what you love and you dig it and you find it interesting That's fantastic, and I'm excited that those that you who love that are going to now have You know something that you potentially love as much as I've come to love aos and the crazy mythic fantasy world that is aos, right Having more stuff like that that people can love and play and engage in and take advantage of Only makes it stronger right So I there's no that's not a downside um I like the the best the best case for me in this is likely that I have some new avenues to get some interesting models or bits or something like that, right new conversions Yeah, sure like that's the most upside to me Right, um, which is cool. That's still a good upside like great make more minis I like cool. That's just more chances for me to find stuff. I like for either proxies or whatever um you know and the uh It doesn't matter that I don't like the lore it doesn't matter that you don't like the lore of one or the other Your like or dislike of one is neither correct nor incorrect It that's not a thing Right, it's just you love a thing celebrate that you love a thing and let other people love their things and that's a good thing So there you go. Um I'm excited sure Like I care nothing about this game and I'm excited I'll mean I'll watch what happens four years from now Like I said, yeah, I have no idea what my life or the world or aos Or basically anything in the universe looks like in 2023 when this game launches Sure, so that's probably a thing to temper your expectations about But here we are like that's what it's going to be So cool. Um, yeah my my personal feeling is uh You know get involved to gw Publish that guiding principles are you know article? Set us all on the track put some kind of open the box a little So we have some kind of conception of what this is going to be so people don't build up the hype train to a million only to be disappointed Uh talk about what you want to accomplish with this project That is the best thing you can do Be open cast vision. Yes set cast vision for the project a hundred percent Give us your vision You decided to do this massive project Okay, right, right. This is a massive massive thing. They they did this had to go through Countless layers of approval within that company All right, especially for it to get go public Right like can you imagine the approval chains that happened to the discussions the meetings leading up to this, right? Okay So you've got all that information Share us share with us Your vision What sold you gw on wanting to do this? Why do you think this is such a good idea, right? What makes you excited for this? Share that vision and bring us along with it. That's the best thing you can do All right, yep, because that will manage expectations That will set the appropriate level of sort of hype and it will engage people in the best possible way Right, it's true. So like that's got to be my closing thought is that's what I want to see I your marketers are funny the meme articles funny Ha ha ha Great good work marketing team very clever. None of that's real stuff. Okay Make the real stuff Right So there you go Since it just got asked we'll close on the same thing they closed on I mentioned it a little bit at the top We'll mention it a little bit now Which is in the meantime They closed the article on saying something giant like real giant is coming but right now we're heesh heesh I argue that's the same thing and I called it on wednesday at the close of the show When I said I want an all giant army and make it from heish I had apparently tapped into the weave of reality Because I argue that's what we're getting. It's going to be about like march ish will be time for a new army Right when they'll want to do a whole new army. So they'll give us a April aprils when you'll see the new army for aos sure march april We'll get like and because they're in heish and heish is like the world of logic And intelligence and that kind of thing and like, you know, you'll get smart giants You'll get smart giants the giants there got smart enough to not be drunk in stupid messes because that's the nature of the realm just like Just like because it's enlightenment enlightenment is the is the push of heish And so what you'll do is you'll get like a a an army of like a hyper magical super smart giants Yep Yep Yep, exactly like sages sages the the realms that people are in change their personality, right? Like akshi makes it more bold and brave and fiery and easy to anger and so on and so forth, right? And heish makes you more logical and cold and smart and mathematical like they're up and downsides to all the realms, right? Right and like a dumb giant that uh Because like giants and all the other realms just get their worst traits explored But this is the only one that rewrote their brains. Oh my god. If that was the army that came out Like my head would explode. It would be the greatest thing. I would have pallets of that army ship to my house Uh, so I just hope that that's that's correct. Like or they were just being like Wordy with saying giant and really it'll just be stupid highy shelves and I'll be sad unless they're all sweet angels and Angels of light bringing enlightenment to the realms I mean, look come on if they're angels I've talked before like if I minimized my desktop. Yeah. Yeah, but what happens if it's Giant angel elves. Oh see now you had my interest now you have my attention Like yes, if it were giant angelic elves Best of all worlds. Oh my god. It's amazing Like solar like solar And uh, yeah, yeah, they're all large and huge and stuff. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh my god What what if teclas is like maybe if I just go bigger? Yeah, like have more sculpting room I don't know his name, but like or like we'll just use the brain meme like that is I need somebody needs to make me the Brain meme of like the galaxy brain and it's just like, you know That and the top is giant Angel elves. That's the that's the galaxy brain. Yes So, uh, oh It'd be delightful. Yeah, there you go. And yes, welcome joe bookish. I'm glad you found the channel tonight. That's awesome We do lots of content on war hammer and age of sigmar and hobby and we're glad to have you along Uh at any rate, uh, yeah, I think that's probably everything. I am that's like I am beyond excited for that announcement I read that whole article and I was like at a zero level of interest and then they mentioned the giants And I was thinking I was like whoo shot to a million Like instantly because if we just got the logic giants the smart giants the different types of giants like formed my ish Oh my god, that would be so incredible and it would be an imperial knights equivalent like somebody that's I agree it Um like yes. Oh my god. Yes like bring in the lords of war like Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I already have a giant army. I'll do another one. I'll do another big one Like we're in my we are in my wheelhouse now Uh, so at any rate Uh, here's what I'll say final closing thought my close to my closing thought to my long closing thought sure sure Tom tell me if you agree with this This year has been an amazing time for age of sigmar. We've gotten more books In this year than some editions got in their entire release cycle of war hammer fantasy. Okay And it's and there we go and and the data dropped and it dropped. I love it, of course Of course it would And we're back Okay, sorry about that folks All right, good lord. So at any rate, uh cast your vision More than we've gotten in some really editions of war hammer fantasy in the past In 22 years now of playing this this game. This is the best year. I've ever had It's the most exciting to me. The game is moving towards a really good place I feel like we've got a strong set of competition lots of compelling armies. Everybody's getting to play with their toys This is just another Interesting announcement that leads on to the fact that I believe that the game is in good hands The company's in being steered in a good direction And ultimately we're going to get a bunch of amazing things in the years to come in between now and whenever this happens Yeah, they've been going from strength to strength and I just I think that's just going to continue Oh Fair yeah Yeah, I mean like when I think about this year like I can't wait to do our year-end show here in a month or so um because like There's simply never been a year like this Like when I look at my bookshelf Like the army codexes From this year it's just It's mind-blowing and I've gotten everything I wanted and more. I never knew I needed those new past nights and warriors But like the second I saw my order was already, you know there, right? I mean like this is a great time So I say continue to stay positive. Stay excited. Ignore the dumb. Don't let the internet be your life Right. Stay positive celebrate the hobby and uh, and there you go. We'll be back Uh As on wednesday as normal and speaking of new armies this wednesday. We'll be talking bone daddies So join us then Oh stark bone reavers folks come join us. It'll be fun. There it drops for real There you go Oh, and we're back. We'll be back on wednesday talking bone daddies. All right. Bye everybody