 I thought I got him for you Oh shoot, hold on. All right. We are I forgot to like it's such a song and dance. I stream from Oh, nice nice on my phone So we're gonna set that up as we're live. What's going everybody? Good morning. Uh, we're not really live yet Because like, you know, people got to find us Yeah, sure We're going but there ain't nobody yet. We're going we're going say hey, we'd love to hear from you Um, hold on. I'm doing too many things one time. It's just a complete disaster this morning. Um, no, that's cool. It's cool Dude, we're supposed to get some tornadoes today. No way really. Yeah, it's gonna get weird I don't know if I've ever experienced a tornado plenty of earthquakes. Where do you live? Plenty of fires, but uh, California You're in california? Nice. What part where yeah down in san diego, uh, or oh, dude san diego I visited once it was amazing san diego is pretty pretty special. We're not gonna lie. It's awesome It's it's become quite a little bit of a tech hub too, right? Yeah, it's I feel like it's uh, it's growing in that in that regard it's yeah, you know, historically it's been a lot of um pharmaceutical companies and like healthcare related stuff um And so like it's kind of funny It's got like a funny tech scene because you know, it was like asp.net for like a really long time. There you go Yeah, it's hot web. Yeah web forms Dude, you know, what's funny is I've been recruiting. What's everybody. Oh, good morning everybody. People are tuned in You know, what's funny is I would I mean I've been recruiting since Web forms was hot I mean 2011 is when I started recruiting. I mean, I've kind of walked through this whole like web Totally two dot oh three dot oh five. I think we're on five dot. Oh, I think Angie Jones and rizelle Web five so Good morning, everybody. Uh, happy Tuesday, I'm stoked about this. I really am Brady. It's good to see you. John is good to see you as well Um, so for those of you who didn't welcome, uh, want to uh tiktok facebook linkedin youtube my twitter chan's twitter Yeah, and youtube. Yeah, that's right. We are all we are just plastered Over the internet this morning dan. What's going on buddy? It's good to see you. Um, so I'm very excited about this this morning And and I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna give chan his flowers publicly Because he deserves it. So creating content is really fucking hard And especially like engaging content and like all and just being consistent And chan is giving the master class right now on creating content on your job search If you do not follow him, please do follow him go to his youtube subscribe to his youtube It is incredible. I'm getting goosebumps talking about it. I'm fanboying a little bit if you can't tell Um, and so uh, so again chan, thank you. Welcome to the show, man. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me. Honestly, this is a really fun I'm glad that we're doing this and I'm glad that the timing worked out. So I mean you're you're you got so much going on You had south by southwest we were gonna do this earlier in the month, but We ended up pushing out a little bit to to now it's what april second Which is great because we had our chat like three and a half ish weeks ago like almost a month ago right when I started going public with this stuff and I'm just I'm so glad that we got we get to come full circle. We get to talk about like what a month of it looks like Yeah, I know that was perfect. Is this on twitch? We're not on i'm not on twitch I'm on youtube and chan's on his youtube So I know I tried to put it on twitch, but um, I can only have two accounts because I have a three three streamer account So I'm sorry. I wish one. So real quick guidance council 2.0 What is this thing? It's a podcast that started four years ago where I basically wanted to scale my um knowledge to the web dev internet So basically I was recruiting pretty heavily at four years ago at my old company I was having conversations every single day I was like there's got to be a better way to scale myself and the conversation i'm having to help the dev community Started guidance council 2.0 first six to nine months. I was kind of talking to the abyss No one's paying attention to me doing lives by myself Sorry to have people to want to come on the show four years later It's turned into really it's an it's a tech engineering podcast that's focused on the career side of things And so and to be honest with y'all I kind of had a revelation last night chan I I was like i'm gonna do this for chan, but i'm not going to because I want to talk about you I'm gonna actually move my podcast and no one's heard this yet. I love it. Cool. Hell. Yeah. Hell. Yeah, let's do this We we're changing the format a little bit So i'm gonna start diving into people's careers more about the story of their careers less about hiring the job search leadership Basically what i've been doing for four years. I'm gonna change it up I want to get to more of the heart have more intentional conversations around Like who chan is from like growing up biggest mistakes biggest, you know regrets biggest success story So that's where i'm moving to you've heard it here first. It's kind of laying in bed last night I was like, you know, i'm kind of getting tired Of the current format, but i'm excited to talk with chan today. I think what's amazing. So we're gonna talk about today I love that. I love that. Yeah, it's it changed it up a little bit. That's great. Yeah, I'm down for whatever I'm I'm oh, I'm no no I wouldn't talk talk about your search But i'm just thinking just more high level and and i'm gonna yeah So anyway, so so comment say hey, we'd love to hear from you. This is a live show We're not in the metaverse yet. We don't have our apple vision pro goggles on yet So I don't know if you're watching unless you comment, right? So please comment I've had people find jobs on the show. I've had people find apprenticeships mentorships new friends off the show So please comment engage with others on the show Next thing ask questions. We're gonna walk through chan's background chan's job search right now Real time what's working? What's not if you are on the job search as well Please stay ask questions. It's a great time for us to kind of go back and forth with each other I want to give Two shout outs first off want to give a shout out actually clark told me to change this and I forgot to change it already Hold on hold on. I gotta do this real quick or clark's gonna get mad at me So that conference first off want to give a shout to that conference I I have had the opportunity to speak there It's it's incredible. There was consen. You can buy tickets right now Go to that conference.com backslash wisconsin if you use the code t-descent you get 25% Not five not 10 not 15 25% off your ticket She's a code t-descent on that also want to give a shout out to the premier pro platinum creme de la creme sponsor picked up my podcast for the last two years and that is Render atl render again. Thank you so much for this. I actually met chan in person at render the second year It was around and I'm still friends with chan. So you make you meet some pretty amazing people I will be there. I can't tell you what capacity yet, but I will be there I just hope to see you there And again, we got a few more people tuning in. I'm john switch to the youtube watch. I love it jason It's good to see you buddy Dan i'm gonna need the deets if on if netflix. Okay, we we're gonna talk about it. We're gonna talk about it All right chan. Let's get the people that want me enough for me running my mouth. Um high level. What do you do? All that stuff. Yeah, so it's funny my my uh, my wife was trying to describe what I do the other day and she was like Yeah, he like uh makes videos For nerds Yeah, I know it's it you know, it's a it's a pretty complicated little little space and it's kind of funny. Um, and I was yeah, it's just it It Yeah, you know content Professional content is kind of a funny space, you know, because we're following all the cool stuff But you know and people want it, you know people, you know People need it, but it is kind of funny when you when you're when you're doing it It's like, oh man, it's kind of a kind of a silly silly little thing that I I have right now But it's it's great. So yeah, like I make I make Primarily what I do is I make like technical videos and education stuff So like dead ed would probably be the closest um thing for it. Um That's what I really enjoyed doing, but you know, honestly recently I've I've kind of like you were mentioning just wanting to change it up a little bit I kind of miss making stuff, you know, the there's something fun of the education piece is great But sometimes you miss like just getting your hands dirty and like doing the the heavy lift of getting something out there And like at the end of the day feeling like yeah, I did that I did that Yeah, so so uh So Jason goes it's the foot content for tech nerds only chance Yeah, only yeah, no for real I you know, honestly, I feel like I'm missing out if I could learn how to type with my feet Like that that would be that'd be quite you know I've actually thought about starting only fans for educational like job search content because anybody can be on that I think totally. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't have to be, you know, what we all think it is Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna give out educational content on only fans with a job search What it's like the same it's the same it's the same stuff, but you just do it with your shirt off There you go tarps off Which in I you know, let's give let's kind of set the stage a little bit What I guess talk to me about your story over the last One two years. Where are you at? Yeah, what happens, you know for sure for sure. So I was working at a Let's see. I spent eight and a half years I had a company that did a church management software, which is kind of like a weird niche, but like good god There's a lot of money. There's a lot of churches who have, you know, somewhere between 15 and $2,000 a month to spend on managing their their church um And yeah, so I worked there, you know, honestly, it was one of my first Like real jobs maybe in in tech, you know, I'd moved around a little bit, but I came on Uh, it was such a funny interview process because They were doing rails. I had only really done a lot of like front front end some php and so I went into that interview With as much preparation as I could have but like just not prepared for like a full stack rails job But I I ended up getting it just on like aptitude being able to carry on a conversation and talk at a high level about software Um, and so they took a chance on me. That was my first, you know, real job with like real benefits You know, like the the health insurance and the, you know, I wasn't just like kind of piecing it all together at that point Um, I was there for like eight and a half years. I came in really entry level and then they ended up needing to scale Horizontally, so they only had one product at the time and they needed they ended up having eight or nine by the time that I left and uh, I ended up owning the Kind of like the front end infrastructure the shared front end infrastructure piece of that so by the time that I left I left as like a you know front end architect like, you know top top level at that company and um Yeah, you know Speaking of render atl. There was a talk that I planned again. Sorry. This is connected. You know, we're taking This is your show you can do whatever you want with this thing taking a little detour, but it is connected. I swear So a couple years ago, um, there was a talk that I was going to give at render atl and it's how The topic was about how I've been like fired or let go from literally every job that I've had For real for real. Yeah, like that not an exaggeration like either like company went under uh, the direction changed significantly to the point that like You know the old the old guard has to leave. Um, or uh I mean there was there was one time I got fired for a weekend But let's let's talk about that for a second. Yeah, I got fired for a weekend. You're like not jk. We want you back No, totally a hundred percent. It was like the I don't even remember it was like a husband and wife duo and like I the The the wife felt like I like one of the partners didn't feel like I was like pulling my weight and then The and so I got fired and then By the time that the news transferred to the other partner They uh, they ended up calling me back. You know, like, hey, yeah, no, we made a mistake Like you need to come back and I was I was on the job search like For the next two weeks that I was there. I was like just doing resumes and what not anyway All that is to say I've experienced like getting laid off fired, you know, like whatever a lot like at some point in like all of the Jobs that I've had and so like at this point it kind of it kind of just feels like the inevitable conclusion of a job that you kind of like um And so yeah, so so that job, you know, it was just it was one of those things. It was just a bad fit. Um They wanted They had me in this position, but didn't want to give me the Uh opportunity to work through Through the hard problems that we had, you know, it was like, you know, which I mean you have You go from one team with one app to eight teams with eight apps You know, there's a lot of things that you end up having to manage not everybody gets their way And so that's a little bit of a that was kind of the thing that ended up grinding So yeah, so anyway, uh got laid off from that. Uh, I ended up going into content because you know Over the previous two and a half years I've been doing react podcast just on the side because I wanted to get better and like you like you Want to get out there you want to learn what's happening in the industry you want to talk to people being people And uh through that got connected with chromatic Spent two and a half years doing the owning the youtube channel and the video content doing video conferences, etc And uh, yeah, it was really fun. And now i'm kind of trying to figure out like was that enough? Do I like that enough to keep doing it or uh, you know, is You know, is it more like engineering? Did I enjoy the engineering with like content stuff on the side a little bit more? So Content full-time is not on the table yet, but maybe someday maybe we'll get there Anyway, so that's that's that's my like tech story so far. Those are the pieces that we'll be working with I guess So laid off obviously most recently. Um, man, how did it feel? How did it feel? I you know, I mean you you always seem like a guy that's happy You're very positive. I'm sure it probably sucked yeah, it It does suck. Yeah, it sucked a lot. I I I think a lot of us live with that like fear, you know, you got a dm from your boss or whatever So, you know, like this is the day This is what happens, right? This is what I'm not like he goes like what you want for lunch? Totally 100% yeah, it's like not a big deal, right? but um, I think I've realized that you know part of that low-grade fear at least in the us is that It is true that at any point you can just get let go for no reason at all and or any reason and no reason as Aaron Francis said it on Any interview that I did with him actually I'm gonna post this in there. Um, I have a playlist of all the Stuff that we've done over the last month. So you're in there. Um, great stuff um, but yeah that It sucks, right, you know, and especially like mine was I I we had want we had all of our one-on-ones on the weekend Not weekend on friday feels like the weekend We had our one-on-ones on friday and so It was I had a one-on-one moved to monday Under kind of the cover that we were going to be like changing the times at which we had one-on-ones And then that was the that was the time and it was just like that feels kind of that feels kind of wack, you know Yeah, yeah, so I think yeah, just a lot of stuff like that. I think it kind of sucks to um You know have your have your charter and then like Someone can just decide that it's not not worth it and Instead of having like a conversation about it like adults is just like Yeah, I'll see you bye. Yeah. No, I know I know and that's yeah, that's kind of what I dealt with too There's no adult conversations with my last one, right? It was yeah Which things that sucks, right? Yeah, I think especially like, you know we have so much talk we talk so much about culture and all that stuff and and I don't know. I one of the things that attracted me to that company was like It was a it ranged a little bit higher. It was like kind of 35 was maybe the median age And I was like, oh sweet like this is gonna be like a you know mature We're gonna be able to like talk about things like adults um type of company that I don't know and I think it's I think it's hard too, man. It's just a lot of HR stuff, right? I mean I and and like Like I in one way I get it like if you start going into too much detail You can potentially say something to where somebody could grab on to it and sue for it or I don't know what but sure Yeah, there's got to be some sort of medium instead of going okay today's your last day Yeah, yeah, like there's got to be some sort of medium So we've got a few comments. I want to get to hear first before you Please dive into your job search a little bit more A little bit more in depth 10 minutes before nine they hit me with layhouse. Yeah a few months back Um, I got fired from a job where I was working 20 hours per day Lord have mercy Um, let's see here. I got laid off in 2022. I was working a great team We all got outsourced after startup. We got acquired Jason comes in and goes job security is a myth nowadays. I want to get back to that here in a second Jordan comes here or someone just entering the tech field and hearing stories from others I feel like I need to go ahead and prep myself for being fired at least a couple times throughout my career Hate to say it, but yes Robert that's a good question. All right, so we got a lot of comments coming in. So let let's let's do this Let's start. I do want to get to Before we dive in chain to your background. I want to get to this comment by Jason job security is a myth nowadays What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, no, I think it is and I think that um, the One of the things that I discovered in this kind of like post-layoff phase trying to create content and have conversations with people is that um Yeah, that that whole notion is just fully eroded. I think yeah for a lot of people especially people who Are in the like dev rail marketing content space where it's like your role was already kind of like on the shopping block A little bit early chopping block anyway, like you're the canary in the coal mind of like, you know When the rest of the company is going to get fired um So yeah, I I agree I think that a lot of people we see we're seeing a lot of people go a little bit more independent because I think that For a number of reasons it feels more safe than trying to have a job in tech right now. Yeah I think that I mean it's It's such an overgeneralization, right because surely there are plenty of companies that are More stable in terms of how they manage employment, but just in general the vibe is Anytime any reason right now. Yeah Yeah, and you know, I think You know, I'm not talking about wife about this. I mean, I was at my last company for 12 years I mean my entire professional career Do I want to be at gun for 12 years to another 12 years? Yeah, of course. I mean, I told my CEO that I was like I mean, that's just the way I'm wired like I don't yeah, I didn't I didn't take a job at gun to leave after two years Like that's just not how I'm wired. Yeah, but the fact of the matter is is that Things happen, right? Yeah And and and I think it's out of your control. It's out of your control What are your thoughts with Jordan's comments? Someone just entering the tech field and hearing stories from others I feel like I need to go ahead and prep myself for being fired Oh for sure. Yeah, no 100. I I think You know, I think it's a healthy spot to be in it is it is it is a healthy mentality And I think that you know, both of us have long-term careers at our previous company and I think in this industry I know that from the hiring side, you know You know this better than anyone like it's about like 18 months that people expect a You know engineer to be in a role And so I think that companies tend to optimize for that and so like if you're mentally not also optimizing for that That you're gonna bounce unless you have like a really Intriguing reason to stay right like you really love the the problem. I think a lot of engineers would get sucked into the problem That's what kept me around kept me at planning center for so long. It's just like I really loved the challenge of trying to figure out how to make a you know white label design system for Eight apps on different stacks where like that's a fun fucking problem. Like every day. I was like, how are we gonna do this? How are we gonna do this? There were new things to figure out. Um And so I think that's what kept me around so long, but I I definitely did myself a disservice um by Being so enamored with that problem that's staying so long and not Kind of jumping around more and I have you know, we have some family health stuff that played into that as well So it's not it's not just one thing. Sure to answer the question like Yeah plan on plan on what your company plans on which is about 18 months And you know, if you have a compelling reason to stay stay But like that's what I would plan on like I think everybody needs to get really comfortable with looking for jobs probably over the next few years I think I think expanding your network. I think I think it absolutely And I think another thing too, you know, it's curious And you know, I'm sure you've had these conversations in your past, you know positions But it's like, hey man, whenever you go, I'm going with you, you know You had those conversations or I've had those conversations too. There's a lot of delays to that, right? I think the the networking and then dearing yourself to your colleagues And playing nice in the sandbox is huge because if you burn bridges, you can't burn bridges You know to be totally frank. I've burnt some bridges I'm in my last job and and I'm okay with it. It was a calculated burnt bridge Because I knew at the end of the day. I didn't want to work with those people anyways, but I but but I think you got to be careful Who you're talking to how you're talking to and trying to be as much of a team player I think more now than ever because If you get laid off, you're gonna need you're gonna need to network, right? So Yeah, there's that there's that kind of uh, I don't know. I saw it on like I can't remember Is the episode of psych or something but like I think his dad's a con artist They or what I don't know an uncle or something There's a con artist involved and there's this this notion that he keeps living by that You should be able to walk back into any town that you like drifted from and I think that's like kind of It's kind of an apt like metaphor of like You know, you need to know what you're about and what you're there for but at the same time Like don't burn it down on the way out because like there there are things that you may need but again like to your point Sometimes sometimes you have to burn a little bit Burn it a little bit, right? Leave it a little bit scorched. Maybe leave the bridge intact, but you know Yeah, leave your mark, you know. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So the comments are out of control. We are gonna go long today Just just because I knew this conversation was gonna be good. Chan. I want to dive into your search, man What's working? What's not? Yeah, obviously you're kind of 30 days into it. It's a wonderful spot for us to talk kind of give a run down of of that for me. Yeah, so um, I honestly like I really wanted to lean in and take advantage of the position of being openly available because it's not something you get all the time and I think that There are advantages that we can talk to of being but of speaking openly about your Kind of unemployment or like job search or whatever you want And so I wanted to lean into that because I've never really taken advantage of that um before um And so that's kind of like what spun this up You were one of my I think you were my first call on this because you put so much content out specifically in the networking space and so I wanted to kind of get my head around like, okay what does it look like to do content like for networking and um I kind of leaned on you know stuff that I know which is just like having conversations with people That's you know, what i'm what i'm good at and so I kind of leaned into that I've done a handful of videos where I talk about the specifics of what it looks like to You know be laid off or kind of like what the you know devrel type field is kind of turning into and whatnot But really it was like I wanted to try to get some form of video out like every day And so that whether that be internet just like some like just running my mouth on twitter or you know Like some kind of like educational educational thing Um, but yeah, that's that's that's been good. Honestly. I feel like it's it's funny because all of the things that I have um Have looked the most promising have come from A video that I made being shared and I think that's a really interesting thing is that video is so imminently Shareable, I think you know because it's fast. It's highly visual There's a lot of stuff that's communicated just by someone being able to talk about a topic You know and and break it down in 90 seconds. There's a lot that you know about a person just from hearing them hearing them speak and so um Man if there's one takeaway for me, it's like just like video definitely works So, um, yeah, I don't know how much we want to get into that specifically, but I mean, yeah I mean, this is I mean, I want to kind of get into the brain of chan On this on on this show because again, I mean, I I think uh, let me miss you How have you structured your days? Right? I mean, you're I mean most people Can barely navigate finding a job let alone producing high quality video content and finding a job Are you is your strategy hoping that your organic content will help you find a job? Yes. Yeah 100% Okay, and you're not you're not necessarily In the DMs DMing people applying the jobs like you're not are you doing any of that? I am doing it. Yeah Yeah, I'm doing that as well. Yeah, so lots of DMs I had had a ton of ton of DMs But I think honestly it's like one of those things that I'm kind of just for the first time I'm just kind of like rolling with it. I don't know. I don't really know how else to explain it, but like I'm kind of just Putting it out there definitely, you know returning calls and whatever, but like just kind of feeling what Connects, you know, yeah Like that I don't know like that perfect golf swing, right? Like you hit a per 100 golf balls But then there's that one that just like hits and so I'm kind of trying to just Follow the ones that just there's a natural connection there and like neither of us want to drop the ball And that's very few. You know, it's like I've had like, you know, I don't know Probably over like a hundred like DMs emails like etc But so far there's only been two it's kind of like, oh, hey, we like saw your video We like your work. We want to like continue this conversation. So Does that it's a low hit rate for sure Well, that's open ass. Is that stress you out at all for like, I mean everything you're doing to I guess quote unquote only have You know to only have two jobs right now Yeah, I mean it does it does stress me out a little bit. Yeah, I'm not gonna Sugarcoat that part of it. Um, I think that it is um I'm I'm being like Well, I'm not like being picky per se like I am being picky By virtue of the process, right? Like the process is like, oh, I just want to like I just want to put myself out there and whatever sticks to me. That's what I'll follow through on, right? Like that's a pretty uh niche type of process um, so I think that I do have a lot of um I have confidence that if I was like, okay, cool It's time to just like turn this on and you know, just focus squarely on getting a job That I'd be able to I'd be able to do something, right? So okay, so so so that that's kind of in the back of your brain My camera's like going in and out of fuzziness, but so so so that's in the back of your brain then like like You have to you know, if you get to a certain extent you'll have to pull that trigger and you're open to Stepping away from video content if needed to to really double down. Yeah. Yeah, correct So like so this month has all just been about like I want to I want to be able to make videos really Well and really fast. I want to know how to make all of the types of videos that I want to make Yeah, hopefully By virtue of telling this story it resonates with people enough that they want to have conversation with me And so that's kind of what I've been doing for month one Month two is definitely going to start shifting especially now that some of those conversations are like starting to get to a point of landing where I'm I'm going to focus this month on Just learning technical stuff, right? So I have a couple interviews left that are going to go out But other than that it's going to be a lot of streaming around like, you know Just getting my chops back up with type scripts and get my chops back up with React and learn some of the stuff around that Tailwind, you know, it's like there's a lot of these things that I kind of touch like tangentially Um, I'm still familiar with them, but I'm not I'm not at like speedrunner kind of like levels, right? It's like all of those muscles are like just doing the bare minimum to get by and so I need to like kind of pump them back up again But honestly like I think To talk to this first month a little bit more Yeah, I needed to I needed to pump up all of my networking and like self-promotion type of stuff I I needed to have been doing that More along the way and so like I kind of concentrated this last month on on doing that You know taking taking your advice taking Danny Thompson's advice and like just kind of reworking my LinkedIn I've done a lot of that on stream and Kind of thinking about how I want to communicate that what I'm trying to communicate to people about me and um, yeah, but honestly like you know taking time to figure out What it is that I want to do right because like if You know if I just got off of a sinking ship. Do I want to get on another sinking ship? You know if if this like marketing type of stuff this you know dev rail type of role seems to be just Like Getting thrown off of every company around me like do I want to get on something and be like, oh, yeah Same thing different company. Yeah, I I don't know. You know it kind of sucks Well what let me let me say there's a lot of people in the comments here about you know struggle doing video You know, I don't want to be in front of video What what would you tell these folks? I mean because I mean obviously I do a ton of video you do a ton of videos for people look at us and like I'm never going to be able to do that So what what do you think some other good practical tips for folks? Based off your job search if you take video out of it, what are some things people can do? You know, honestly, I I'm not the right person. Yeah, honestly I'm not the right person to talk to about that because I I think that there are many other strategies I I wouldn't be able to say what also works because for me it's like Videos always just Steered me right, you know, yeah, it it just has and so I Can only say that I Didn't ever want to do video. It's a lot of work, you know, you have to you know, not even I mean I mean, let's just talk real for a second, right? Like yeah, I have long hair. I don't like I don't wash it every day and so You know, there are like just practical things where it's like I have to get like dry shampoo, right? Because it's like, you know, maybe I need to record a video on you know The last day before I like, you know, I actually like wash my hair And so you got to get like you got to you got to work through some very practical things, you know, sometimes of like video You know, it's like, you know, this room is a multi-purpose room You know, it's like there's drum sets over here. Sometimes there's you know, like Stuff is happening. Are you drawing by the way? My son is yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He actually just played at our church For the first time we got here to do drums. So oh nice That's awesome. Dude drums are great. I wish I I wish I had that skill I don't know. I'm hoping that I learned through osmosis, but you know, that's that's a lie, right? That's not something that happens The Yeah, I I think Video is hard, you know And you know, you see a lot of people and they got like they're they're nice camera rigs And they got like a room and in all that it looks cool I will say that I think that there's a way to find a space that you can do it You know like so so this room in particular it's like, you know, you I mean, I don't know if I can You might just have to believe me the floor is covered in shit Like there's just like boxes and like wires and like Like bubble wrap, right like everywhere, right? Like There's stuff everywhere, but like you can kind of carve out like a decent, you know Just depending on your lens and whatnot. You can carve out a decent space to make a video. I think Yeah, especially iphone's you get that like the iphone with the blurry filter thing I'll tell you a second I think well, I think one of your best performing videos, which I told you to do is you talking to your phone and post Yeah, I think that's what is that devrel video. I think like what is devrel in the future devrel You were like on the playground with your kids or something like I was in the parking lot of home depot Yeah, and you were literally just talking to your phone and I think that's one of your most perform best performing videos on the job Yeah, no, it's totally true and and not not just like best performing, but it is um I had the most secondary conversations from that right like I had a ton of people reach out to me about the devrel stuff a lot of people Repost it. I mean especially like it made so much sense on twitter, right? Because like people were able to repost it and be like, oh, yeah, this was my experience too or this is kind of what we're dealing with And being able to say something that someone else hasn't been able to put the words to yet on twitter is like it's it It's great Like it's such a good strategy and I think video just you're able to do it a lot faster You know 100 for the record dan. I did tell chan. Yeah. Oh, sure conversation That he just opened up his phone. No, that was a Yeah, that is that is a totally fair Uh credit grab because like I mean honestly this whole thing. I mean we uh You should watch that uh interview between uh taylor and I because this whole thing is literally just like what would taylor dessin do Uh, so like I would not have recorded a video in front of home depot like with my dog And it worked it worked and it worked right? Yeah. So I was like except I had that little I had that taylor dessin angel Just being like hey people need to see different looks from you different looks. I'm like, okay Home depot parking lot is a different look. Let's go. Um, so as as we kind of wind down here, you know, obviously You know talked about a lot of things. Um, what are what are some just things you're seeing in the job search? observing not necessarily like things you're doing but just Maybe some words of encouragement for people on the job search. Um, Yeah, I don't know just just anything else anything outside of just creating videos that you're kind of observing seeing experiencing Yeah, I think I think that You being a human Is more important now than ever What do you mean by that? I think that we're continuing to see like like ai is continuing to kind of loom, right? I don't I don't think we're at the point where it's like actively taking like developer jobs yet But it is looming Right and so you have to ask yourself like okay if we we can fight against this thing Or it you know, the more likely outcome is that it will be an inevitability, right? It will continue to develop Take jobs in the way that we're afraid of and so you have to ask yourself like what is it? That makes me gives me a unique skill. Is it like is it the brain or is it the heart? and I think That ai is kind of like showing us that it is it is the heart It's it's the way we connect with people It's the community the the conversations that we're able to have those kind of The parallel thinking that you know when you and I get together we create a third thing, right? So I mean that that video is a great example of it, right like That video would not have existed Truly if you and I did not come together So it's not it's not just my video, you know, it's not just your idea, right? Like you and I came together and came up with a different idea for this content and executed it I think that's a piece that we miss when we talk about network and like work relationships and all that stuff We miss that like we are The feeling organ of the universe and we're so concerned about what's going to take Oh, like what's coming for our brains and that's never what mattered What mattered was Like us being like the feeling function, right? And those new ideas coming from like I feel like there's more that you could give, right? That's not like a like We we pass it through this logical thing of like, oh well This would make sense, you know for your your brand or your search or like whatever like do this kind of stuff But it like if neither of us were in that feeling function Like I want to feel more from you and like me opening myself up to communicate more like That shit just doesn't happen. It doesn't land, right? Yeah, so I think that's what we need to get good at. I think that we we have been able to in tech avoid That feeling function around our work Um and prioritizing that and you know, we discontinue it a lot, but I think or discontinue we discount it a lot Um, but I think that you know, that's the that's that's the angle And I think that's the thing that I've wanted to show it's um through content for this Through content. Um during the search Um, and so hopefully it's hopefully it's come through I love that. Is there anything that you would change? That you've done in the first 30 days that you would do differently next time. Is there anything? Oh Or or do you feel pretty good about your approach so far? I don't know if I would change it this time, but if it happened again, um I would outsource a lot more. I mean so part of it was like I I kind of thought like okay, I want to be able to present myself as a person who can do like the whole video stack on um, you know in a dev rel type of role um And so that was important to me to to own all of those pieces um, I think I've shown it enough now and I would I would outsource that for sure. Yeah, just outsource the editing part of it. Uh, yeah Yeah, yeah, I think that is that's been the biggest bottleneck I think I could have done more on both sides on the content side and the job search side I mean it costs money, right? You know, and so that's that's you know, we're not we don't have money coming in That's a pretty like terrifying thing to do But like a month in now having you know spent to edit a couple paid editors for a couple videos Uh, it's like, oh, yeah, I should have done I should have gotten to the place where I was like, okay, cool. I showed it enough now I'm just gonna like do the work. Yeah faster. I think so like by like, you know week two I'd be like, okay, I edited I edited a podcast. That's the one I can show people and yeah, yeah Like the rest of that, you know, yeah, it's a lot and I'm very thankful to have a team behind me because I can't video edit My only thing I did is my vlog. So Yeah Uh, all right. So as we wrap up here, man, um, again, a lot of great questions in the comments. Thank you so much You know for obviously, um commenting like I said the comment has been the comments about chart. So last few questions here First off, uh Where could people find you? Where, you know, what what platforms you most active on? Yeah Um, yeah, so I'm probably most active on twitter. I'm trying to get more active on uh, youtube I really like that platform. I think that it best embodies the kind of that philosophy of like being a feeling function Um, I think that I I want to do more there. I am trying to do more there. I am doing more there Um, but that's where that that's where I'm moving but but twitter is, you know, like it's where all of us run our mouth, right? um, so it's kind of the Where I am most regularly. So yeah, uh, fantastic both places Um, there. I love it. I love it. All right. So few few questions a little rapid fire that I always do first thing What um, what outside of work brings you joy? Oh man, uh Two things, um, they're kind of related one Just like going for a walk man. I I love Walking, you know, anytime I'm in a new city. I car I leave a lot of time to just walk around You know, you learn a lot of oh man. You learn so much about a place just by You know by pedaling yourself around, you know through your feet like I love it. Um, so yeah walking around that's like It's so silly walking. I love it. It's one of my absolute favorite things. Um And then outdoor cooking man, like ribs like whatever. I mean part of it's just you know being outside, but Yeah, outdoor cooking freaking love it. I love it. I love the skill involved. I love that. I love that it's slow work You know, I love I love critical slow work and that's all I'll be honest That's the thing that I'm most accept most uh nervous about with interviewing is that a lot of it's kind of like, you know Speedrunning type of stuff. Yeah, which I'm not good at but yeah anything that's like High demand slow work. Oh man. I'm in it, right? Like I'm just babysitting those ribs for like, you know, eight to 10 hours Like I'm out there. I'm on on a flat to San Diego and have some chance ribs If if if money were the same But you couldn't do something in tech. What would you do? Man, I don't even know. I mean, I feel like the classic one is woodworking, right? I think a lot of engineers love the notion of woodworking like me working Yeah, you know, you know what though? I think probably something to do with um Something to do with like video production. I think I was not saying I mean, I would say probably Full-time creator outside. Yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah, like realistically like I mean, I'm gonna answer my own question because I please I have I've used to say a touring drummer Right, but honestly now I would love to just travel and just document Like like like like there is there's such this wanderlust I have like with all these video careers I've fallen in tiktok and youtube of they travel and they create these epic, you know Like I'd love to get paid to buy dslr to learn how to do a dslr to shoot to shoot vlogs In a cinematic way like that's that's that's what I would want to do. Yeah, that is that is true I think the the closer the closer I can get to this this equipment that I have You know making some like, you know more serious types of videos Getting that sound out and I've always loved sound. So yeah, I I agree. Yeah Something like that sounds like really fun right now if money were the same. Yeah, I'd choose that 100% um What are you tinkering with any tools tech frameworks? Trends that you're fascinated with right now. Have you touched a new piece of tech that you that you like? Yeah, so honestly, so I went through the um, there's a work os has a tutorial by sam selikoff. I I did it on stream um around Setting up off through work os in remix and I actually liked both of those. I like work os and remix. Um, I have Had mixed experiences with remix um over the past handful of years. I think now that it's on beat Uh, it just totally changes changes the game I think um, you know beat is an incredible piece of software and to be able to access the whole beat ecosystem Um, that is a huge differentiator. I think especially, you know, like, you know next j.s Is the dominant framework, but it it is Opted out of all of those cool things that you get from from beat So it kind of stands alone and I think maybe some of the biggest Complicated I'm definitely some of the biggest complications, but then also some of the biggest concerns community wise Is not being able to access stuff that people already love with beat So yeah, I'm actually pretty excited about where remix is at this year. Um, yeah, I love it. That's awesome Uh, last question as we wrap up it again. Chan. Thanks for coming on man. I really yeah Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you for those of you tuning in. Thank you again for hanging out with us. Um today So we had guidance counselor shows called guidance counselor 2.0 because we had guidance counselors at middle school high school and calls But not really as adult. We don't really have a guidance counselor as adult to turn to and ask questions And so what would be your biggest piece of career advice to young Chan stick I think to To leave earlier Huh Interesting, please explain I think that we grew up with his value of loyalty, you know, I think I think every every generation We'll share To the next generation what they wish they would have known right, you know And so like like a lot of our parents wanted us to be like doctors and accountants and all that kind of stuff Because it felt like the most like stable thing. Maybe I don't know exactly. Um And I think that loyalty was like a really in really high demand at that like transition point between, you know, our parents and us um At least in tech, I don't think that I don't think that's true You know, and I think that Knowing that about 18 months is kind of the tenure that like Companies expect from a company, you know, just back to that point like plan on about 18 months and then, you know Revaluate but kind of plan on leaving at that point Yeah, and it sucks. I think both of us want to dig our like, you know, dig into a problem And like, you know, you just kind of have to read the room and say like, well, you know I have one year to dig into a problem, right? So I get one year to be really excited about this thing and that that puts some urgency under me and you know After a year is like a lease, right after a year we'll re-up renegotiate But like both people have an opportunity to change the the deal Um, yeah, I mean, it's it's sad. I don't love it But you know, that's kind of the reality we're in and that's what I would that's what I would do differently I love it. I love it Not again, not that anyone asked me, but I'm no please. Yes. No, I'm asking what would you do create content earlier? I mean, I started this shit like In 2011 I would have been Casey Neistat of The recruiter tech world, I feel like I mean literally Yeah, I've only been doing this now for four years. Can you imagine doing it for 13? Totally. Yeah, it's It's crazy and it like it follows you too, right? Like so many people are like, oh, yeah Like react podcast guy like that show hasn't been active for three years, right? But it's like enough people came up With those conversations in their brain that's like, oh, yeah, I know him Yeah, I mean just yeah get started sooner get started content sooner. Yeah is mine. So I love that. That's great Thank you, my friend for coming on. Hope you all enjoyed it. Um, again, please go follow chanestat. Yes. Thank you all for being here Please go follow chanestat in his youtube videos They're great My friends stay on real quick. See about you backstage, but y'all. Thank you again tomorrow morning Not 30 am central on my dear friend matt doleson matt and I actually hang out outside of work He and his wife are dear friends to me and my wife. He is a Project manager at Deloitte. Um, he's big on change management making people and organizations Had that I've done one thing for the longest time changing their behaviors He's really passionate about people professional developments is going to be a great conversation tomorrow. So not 30 am central tomorrow Chan, thank you my friend. Y'all have a good one. We'll see y'all. Peace