 Okay, let's go ahead and get started. Welcome everyone to the Digital Supply Chain Institute's ninth blockchain collaboratory. The last one we did was on GDPR and blockchain coexistence and it was well attended and has good feedback. And I would urge you to read the paper on the DSCI website if you're working with blockchain, especially inside the European Union. Today we're gonna talk about succeeding with the enterprise blockchain, but let me quickly cover the agenda and do a little housekeeping here. First, the DSCI members will have open lines and can ask questions at any point in time. Those non-members who have joined today and welcome or we're glad you did and glad to have you can submit questions through the chat function, which you'll find at the bottom of the Zoom screen there. So for the agenda today, first we're gonna do a little update on the Digital Supply Chain Institute activities and what's been happening recently and George Bailey, who's the managing director will do that. And then we're gonna move to Ganesh Wadidji and he is the chief solution architect owner for a blockchain for supply chain from SAP. And we're glad to have him with us today and he'll give us an update in some level detail as to what SAP is doing with blockchain and he will focus on a couple of their solutions. And I think he even has a little video to show us on what Bumblebee is doing in sustainable fishing, which is exciting. And then we'll open it up to questions and hopefully we'll have 10 to 15 minutes at the end to address any questions that you may have and would like to ask. So as we get started here, let me turn it over to George to update us on DSCI activities. Yeah, hey, thank you, Sean and welcome everybody. I appreciate everyone joining. We have a really interesting program today that I think you'll all enjoy. A quick word about the Digital Supply Chain Institute for those of you who are non-members, we're a not for profit. We're based in New York, but we have operations worldwide. We were established by Sam Pomizana who is the chairman and CEO of IBM. And his whole mantra is about doing research that leads to results. If you know Sam, you know that he achieved his objectives each and every quarter that he was CEO and he grew the stock price from when I joined at $68 a share to over $212 a share when he left. So tremendous record of success. And he did that because he really thought that managing the business globally made a difference. And that's what we're working on. And managing the supply chain globally is probably one of the most important elements of that. And it's something that we've heard from something like 40 or 50 CEOs around the world as they talk to us about what matters to their business. So critical topic. We are a not for profit. It means we're not trying to sell software, hardware or ours. We're only trying to get to what works. And when we started to work on blockchain, we were the first organizations, maybe the first organization way back in 2016 to say, you know what, blockchain, of course it's associated with cryptocurrency and all those things. But actually blockchain could in fact be something that would make a difference to supply chains. And over time it's proven to be exactly that way. Now, we're not trying to sell blockchain because we've done three different projects with it. Two of the three, we decided not to go ahead with blockchain because we saw that there was no discernible benefit that typical database solutions would work even better than blockchain. But in one of the three, we found out that blockchain was absolutely the perfect solution. It grew revenue, it grew success, it reduced errors. And I'm talking about major amounts. Something like over 30% reduction in cycle time, over 30% improvement in productivity, and over 10% improvement in defect rate. So really, really valuable things that changed the game and made the company scale up and they now have a, that company's name is Harrison by the way, a very successful blockchain operation. We have meetings that we do every year. We're having another one coming up in Dallas. We just finished one in Belgrade. We did the one before that in Serbia. We've done them in Zurich, Hong Kong and so forth. But in these meetings, we're bringing together the top people to talk about what it means to have a digital supply chain. And the next one's gonna be October 29th and 30th. We're having an SMU in Dallas, Texas. It's a bi-invitation only event. If you think your organization would be interested, let us know. We'll look at it and consider it. We generally look for people who are C-suite people to attend because we wanna have a high level forum with important people. So for example, one of our panelists is gonna be Rex Tillerson, who is a CEO of Exxon and of course had other roles as well, you remember. And he'll be working with San Pamizano on this topic of transformation. So blockchain has been a big topic in 2019. There's been a lot of discussion about it. And some people have said, you know, blockchain is not bigger than the internet as people first said when it came out. But it is valuable and there's some great success stories. One of our members, and we've worked for 200 companies, not quite 200 companies over the past few years, but one of our members has been SAP from the very, very first day. And they're a great organization with deep knowledge around blockchain. And Ganesha has got a lot of insight on this topic and a success story to talk about as well. At least one, they've had many successes, but this bumblebee story is just a great one. I'm sure you'll enjoy. So Sean, that's it for me. I'll turn it back to you now. Okay. Thanks, George. I might also mention that Ganesh is going to join us in Dallas at the Executive Leadership Forum that George mentioned. It's one of our featured speakers. So we're very glad to have Ganesh participate with us both today and in our upcoming event in Dallas. Ganesh can talk to us today about SAP and what they're doing with blockchain solutions within supply chain, which is where he spends all his time. So I'm looking forward to an exciting presentation here and lots of good questions at the end. Ganesh, welcome. Thanks, Sean. Hello, everyone. Good morning. Really excited about this webcast here talking about SAP's solution strategy around leveraging the blockchain technology. I am part of the solution magnet team for digital supply chain solutions at SAP and my focus area is on blockchain. So today's agenda, I've basically broken down into three main sections. I'll very, very briefly talk about what is blockchain. Don't want to spend too much time on it. I'm assuming a lot of the folks on the call are familiar with it. Then I'll spend a little time on a technology perspective and a solution strategy perspective, how blockchain fits into SAP's solution offering, specifically from SAP Cloud Platform perspective. Then I'll get into the meat of the presentation, talk about the various initiatives we have had around blockchain for supply chain, talk about some of the solutions that we have launched into the market. And as Jordan and Sean mentioned, show a brief video about one of our customers who is live on the blockchain solution. That's bumblebee seafoods. Then wrap up with one slide to bring all these points that I presented today together. With that, let me get started. The technology on blockchain has been around for some time. It's a composition of existing technologies like decentralized ledgers, cryptography like public and private keys, hashing algorithms, consensus algorithms, et cetera. And all of these different technologies came together and are used in what we look at today as blockchain. What it provides us is ability to share and store information in a distributed manner. And there are a couple of key elements to that. One is it provides transparency to all the different participants because every blockchain node has the same information at all times. And it's immutable. The immutability also brings in some key unique capabilities that as George was mentioning, are very relevant to some of the supply chain processes when you look at multi-party collaboration. And the immutability feature comes in because all the transactions that are logged on the distributed ledger has blocks. They're all cryptographically linked together. So there's no way to change a past information. If that does, it breaks the entire link of the hash elements that are written to the distributed ledger. The other key capability that blockchain brings to bear is smart contracts. And depending on the use case, you may or may not need smart contracts. The examples that I'll talk about today for instance, did not use smart contracts. Smart contracts are, you can look at them as automated business rules that execute on top of the blockchain nodes. And depending on certain conditions, you basically run these rules to initiate certain actions. So it helps you in keeping check on the various activities that are happening from a multi-party supply chain collaboration perspective and also ability to automate these business rules during the execution. If you're specifically targeting to track assets across a multi-party setup, then you may not need smart contracts. But as I said, depending on the use case, there might be abilities or smart contracts that can be used. Now there are different blockchain technologies out there as well as distributed ledger technologies. So this is not an exhaustive list, but primarily the blockchain technology is of two types. One is the public type, which if we are all familiar with having heard of Bitcoin and Ethereum and all the other digital currencies out there. And then the other one is a permission blockchain or an enterprise blockchain, which helps you set up a private blockchain network. And these are the various protocols or technologies that you see. As I said, this is not exhaustive list, but it's a good representation of what's out there. And if you look at the top right quadrant, the three that I have marked here, Hyperledger Fabric, Multi-Chain and Quorum, these are the three private blockchain technologies that SAP provides as blockchain as a service on SAP Cloud Platform. And depending on the use case, we will utilize one or the other of these blockchain technologies. Quorum is a fork from Ethereum that was developed by J.B. Morgan Chase. Multi-Chain is a fork of Bitcoin and Hyperledger Fabric is an open source blockchain technology. Hyperledger Fabric has the capability to utilize smart contracts and in Multi-Chain, you do not have smart contracts. So that's kind of just a brief overview of what the blockchain landscape looks like. Let's look at from a supply chain perspective what and where does blockchain play a role? So first of all, blockchain is a network play as some call it, it's a team sport, which means that they have to be multiple parties involved to leverage the blockchain technology. And there are three key elements that I would say that come into play. One is in these multi-party collaborations, there is a lot of potential to optimize the business processes, reduce time and cost. So efficiency is one key play that enterprise blockchain can enable. The second one is to build a digital trust between an ecosystem of business partners, specifically when there is not enough visibility or transparency of information across the multiple parties involved in a business process, or if there is imbalance in the information that they have, which basically leads to situations where you need to create audits and you have disputes that you need to reconcile, et cetera. So in those kind of situations and business processes, blockchain can help bring transparency and accountability. The third aspect is reliability. The in-built security aspects, et cetera, the cryptographically linked blocks that I mentioned and other features can help prevent risk and fraud in the supply chain processes. The data integrity brings capability to automate the business rules and true that something happened by using smart contracts and other aspects of the blockchain. So with that, let me quickly talk about how SAP is approaching blockchain and where does it fall in the overall solution vision and footprint for SAP. So SAP's vision is to make every enterprise an intelligent enterprise. And when it comes to this digital supply chain is one of the foundational pillars of an intelligent enterprise. And there are three key elements or components that are needed for a company to be an intelligent enterprise. One is an intelligence suite of solutions which basically help automate business processes, be able to reduce the inefficiencies that are in today's business processes and also leverage data in new ways to be able to not only streamline the processes but also come up with new business models. The second pillar is the intelligent technologies. And here we have a suite of different intelligent technologies artificial intelligence, machine learning, analytics, IoT and blockchain. So we provide these capabilities to our customers as standalone capabilities as well as embed these capabilities depending on the solution into our intelligence suite. And the third pillar is a digital platform which basically composes of a cloud platform and sophisticated data management capabilities. The cloud platform basically helps us provide our different business solutions on SAP cloud platform as well as other hyperscalers out there in the market. So if you look at blockchain, we provide from a technical perspective SAP cloud platform blockchain. There are various components of it. Let me quickly walk through them. The very first one at the very bottom is the network extension. So SAP recognizes that there are different options and choices needed by our customers when it comes to, sorry, when it comes to leveraging the cloud infrastructure that they need. So SAP offers different ways to deploy blockchain solutions. It could be where you have one external node in the blockchain network. And this could be a single node that is located in some region, it could be at a regulator if it's a regulator industry or it could be an on-premise application that is close to ERP system. So in such a configuration, an external node can be set up using the network extension capabilities of SAP cloud platform blockchain. The other option could be a multi-cloud option in which the blockchain node is provisioned on SAP cloud platform, but it's connecting to other nodes which are running on other cloud providers. So one particular business partner might be running on, say, Amazon web services. One could be on Azure. So it provides these capabilities to integrate in a multi-cloud infrastructure. And the third option that the network extension provides is connecting your own network. In this case, all the nodes are working across multiple different cloud operators, but it provides the customers to connect the SAP stack, which is the business processes, application services, blockchain services, et cetera, to be running on SAP cloud platform. So that provides a very extensible way to leverage SAP cloud platform blockchain. The next one up is platform services. This basically allows the technical connection of various open source blockchain technologies into the SAP cloud platform and also the SAP business processes that are running on SAP applications. So as I mentioned earlier, today we provide this capability for multi-chain hyperledger fabric and quorum. Then we have the enabling services. These are a set of connectivity options that help tie together blockchain, the various business applications and SAP cloud platform capabilities like S4HANA, cloud, HANA integration, REST services, analytics, et cetera. And then lastly, we have the application services. This basically helps you create applications and business processes that leverage blockchain technology. So here through these services, it helps consume blockchain functionality in cloud applications. And this doesn't require the deep knowledge that you might need to have, say on the particular blockchain technology like multi-chain hyperledger, et cetera. And it provides these APIs to leverage and consume this blockchain functionality. For example, if you're trying to record events as it happens across a multi-party collaborative process like a timestamp, then you can use a timestamp API and consume this into the application that you build. Or if you're trying to verify the state of a particular asset, then you can leverage the proof of state API to do that. And similarly, if you're keeping track of the audit trail of a particular business process, then you have the proof of history API. So that's kind of a brief introduction on the technical aspects of what SAP cloud platform blockchain provides to our customers and partners. Next, let me talk about the blockchain for supply chain. So last year, we started initiating these industry consortiums. We set up three industry consortiums, high tech, consumer products, retail and agribusiness and pharmaceuticals and life sciences. There were several members that joined these different industry blockchain consortiums. And the purpose of these consortiums was to, at a business level, talk about what blockchain is and how that can be used in these industry value networks. The good thing about these consortiums was that the discussions were more at a business value level, not at the technology level. The idea was to go through our design thinking philosophy and leverage the fact that there are multiple parties in a particular supply chain, the suppliers, manufacturers, logistics providers, as well as retailers, if that happens to be particular to that industry, they're all together in a room and we discussed through a design thinking process of where a blockchain can address the current business issues that they have as they are collaborating with each other. The outcome of this was more of this prioritized list of use cases that made sense for each of the participants in the consortium. Then this led to a co-innovation exercise whereby SAP provided the technology and working closely with these customers, we developed several different proof of concepts. And this is just a sample list of the POCs and use cases that we have worked on with the various customers, both in the supply chain and other areas. So the top four that you see here, international trade, there was a proof of concept that we worked with, Intel Flex and UPS, as well as other members in a business network across the globe. We had several different proof of concept exercises where we developed an application to leverage blockchain international trade process and then had these customers basically test this proof of concept applications. V1 went a step further and we tracked a live shipment in many of these cases, starting from the origination of that shipment to the end delivery point. The second use case that you see is from a high tech industry consortium. This was safeguarding the semiconductor value chain against its counterfeits. In many cases when the OEM is producing a particular product, the company is outsourcing its manufacturing of components and there are multiple tiers of suppliers that you have upstream in the supply chain. And there are very often cases happen where counterfeit components get into the OEM products and to prevent that, how one can use blockchain to be able to track and safeguard against this counterfeit. So that was the intent of this proof of concept. The other two proof of concepts, pharmaceutical saleable returns as well as a form to consumer. These actually are now available as solutions. The pharmaceutical saleable returns is now is a standard solution that we offer. And the form to consumer solution is going to be offered later this month to our customers under the SAP Logistics Business Network material traceability option. So in the next few minutes, let me go through each of them to give you an idea of what this solution is about. So first of all, on the saleable returns verification, this is actually is an outcome of a multi-year mandate that is coming from FDA where the industry is trying to prevent the counterfeit drugs from entering the supply chain and overall have integrity in the pharmaceutical value chain. Particularly end of this year, actually next month in November, as part of this serialization initiative, US legislation is requiring that all the distributors that who receive returns from the dispensers, they verify them before they introduce them back into the supply chain. And the saleable returns is quite a significant amount of business in the US pharmaceutical industry. It's about two to 3% of the total sales. And the three top wholesale distributors in the US handle probably about 80% of the pharmaceutical supply chain distribution. And from a saleable returns perspective annually, they handle about 58 million saleable returns. And this data was from a couple of years back. So there's a huge potential here for counterfeit drugs to enter the supply chain from a saleable returns perspective. And that's something that the regulation is trying to prevent from happening. So here, we have been developing our information collaboration out for life sciences solution to be able to handle these serialization initiatives and mandates. And as part of the saleable return, we have a blockchain solution that helps to address that. So here when the manufacturers manufacture the pharmaceutical drugs in the first place, they put the data related to those pharmaceutical drugs on using the EPCI standard messages on the blockchain. And when a return comes back to the wholesale distributor, they execute a verification request against this blockchain and they get a response back. And that helps them verify this product, pack data that this particular product is authentic product that was manufactured by a particular manufacturer. This helps prevent the introduction of fake drugs into the return supply chain of the pharmaceutical drugs. So as of last month, we have about 25 manufacturers on this blockchain network, including the 10 of the top 20, five of them are live and more and more customers are getting closer to being live. There are approximately 30 million items in this productive blockchain network. And from a wholesaler perspective, we have two of the top three US wholesalers who represent about 70% of the US market who are leveraging this blockchain solution to verify these returns. And for those supply chain members who are using a non SAP solution, we have built routing capabilities to be able to send the verification request to the solution and then get a response back. So that's on the pharmaceutical industry blockchain consortium, POC that then resulted in a standard solution offering from SAP. The second one was what I mentioned was the farm to consumer. And here the consortium members wanted to address issues like the huge amount of food that is wasted across the globe and the difficulty that they have in recalls. We're all familiar with recalls that have happened in the food industry where it's very difficult for the manufacturer or the retailer to really identify which of the products are tainted and they need to be quarantined. And they end up basically being on the safe side pulling everything off the shelf. And these are huge issues for us in the world. The number of people who are affected by poor quality of food is pretty high because the foodborne diseases and the complexity of responding to product recalls is very difficult. And as a result, a lot of food is wasted across the globe. So the intent of this proof of concept was to bring several customers together and look at these business goals. Number one, reduce the food wastage. Second is how do you streamline recalls and reduce the amount of product that needs to be recalled and do a very targeted recall. So the technology goal was to look at how blockchain can help address these goals through a proof of concept and augment our traceability solutions with blockchain. So this exercise as I mentioned happened last year and then we've been working on bringing to market a standard solution for other customers to leverage. And this solution will be released later this month under the umbrella of SAP Logistics Business Network which has various different capabilities like freight collaboration, track and trace and material traceability will be one of the capabilities that we will offer. So the idea here is to help improve the transparency and trust between the various supply chain partners who are involved in this entire supply chain leveraging the blockchain technology, the solution will provide capabilities to alert these supply chain partners in case there is a quality issue of in a food product. This could happen anywhere in the supply chain could be one of the components that go into ingredients that go into the end product or the end product itself. And to do this obviously you need to be able to integrate into the data into the backend system so that you can create a genealogy provenance that you can leverage through analytics to be able to quickly zero down on where the issue is and then address those issues. Also, there are other initiatives in the food industry like sustainability, like sustainable farming, sustainable fishing, et cetera. And for that you need to know where your key ingredients are coming from and those are some of the other initiatives that can also be addressed through a solution of this nature. So one of the customers I wanted to talk about is Bumblebee. Bumblebee started a project with SAP Cloud Platform blockchain last year. And then in a very short period of time they were able to go live. They're using SAP's blockchain technology for ocean to table transparency and then enhancing their brand equity through sustainability initiatives that they have at the corporate level. Here their aim was to be able to track every fish that is caught off the ocean's islands of Indonesia. These are high grade tuna fish that are caught off of the Indonesian villages and they are promoting fair trade for this tuna. So, and also they want to be able to leverage all the information and data that they collect along the way in two different ways. One is to provide this traceability solution to the end consumers. So when they purchase their products at the retail store they can scan a QR code using their smartphone and then be able to see different kinds of information about where the tuna was caught and how Bumblebee is leveraging this information to promote sustainability and fair trade, et cetera. So the retail buyers and consumers get this transparency and they're able to provide confidence to their end customers and the products that they're purchasing. The second aspect was to really analyze the fish buying trends and catching trends through SAP Analytics Cloud. So here they're able to over time identify historical performances and help improve the villages where the fishermen live to improve their possibility of catching these fish. They're also working with several non-NGO organizations as well. So there's a good quote here from the SVP and CIO of Bumblebee Foods, Tony Costa. He said, our blockchain project with SAP will help transform our social responsibility program with the suppliers and fishing villages of Indonesia. And our passion for and commitment to the environment sustainability will improve the livelihoods of these Indonesian fishermen and enhance their communities. So it's a pretty notable cause as well as a lot of value for themselves from a business perspective as well as their consumers, like retailers and then consumers. So that's a very powerful story around leveraging blockchain in the supply chain area. So with that, let me take a few minutes and run a quick video to demonstrate the story. So let me stop sharing here and so Guthrie can share the video. Well, we track every piece of fish and we share that information and that transparency for the people who end up eating this fish. We have our first look at the new blockchain analytics for the supplier. Let's go through and see Jafar's fish. And it pulls up the amount of fish he's caught on every day, how much they weighed and how much was fair trade. Let's look at that. This is connected to the SAP blockchain. It's based on permissions. So only specific suppliers will give access to their specific data. I would like to invite the other Indonesian to share with us tonight. I, Jafar, I would like to share my work with the world. Thank you. Let me share my screen back. Sorry about the audio there, but I will include a link to this video that you can watch in the slides that you'll receive so that you can revisit this. But basically, as I was explaining, they're able to catch the data all the way from the time the fish is caught and weighed to their processing plants and their quality plants, to packaging plants and load that data into the blockchain. And using the permissions capability in the enterprise blockchain, they're able to provide specific read-only and write-only permissions to the various parties involved in the supply chain. And as you saw in the very end, there were the two examples. One was the scanning of the QR code on a grocery item list and then be able to look at several kinds of key information about the food item and then also internally using SAP Analytics to analyze the various amounts of types of data that they're calculating and they're collecting. So with that, let me move on to my last, yeah. Yeah, Ganesh, before you move on here, I think we have a couple of questions specific to this use case. But one that I have is why is blockchain essential to this solution? Why couldn't it have been done differently? So basically, it comes down to the point that you have multiple parties that are involved in here and you need to be able to collect this data in a fashion that is transparent to everybody. So blockchain enables that capability and also you don't have to create a single database where you have to now then give permissions to everybody to maintain and log their information and you lose some of those key capabilities that I mentioned earlier about blockchain like immutability and transparency, et cetera. And finally, they want to be able to take this. This is just their first step. They want to extend this to other products that they have bring to the market as well as leverage this information for other use cases that they are looking to promote. So not being today the way this data is captured is lot on handwritten notes which are then entered back into the system. Here you can automate a lot of this stuff. So for example, down the road maybe using IoT sensors or just bar coding and then reading that through a scan and uploading that information automatically onto the blockchain can help provide this instant access to the data and visibility to all the suppliers. And in case there is, as I was mentioning earlier if there is a scenario that happens where there is some quality issue that leads to having to recall, they know instantly where that information, that issue occurred and they can contain that very rapidly. Okay, great. Thank you and a related question which is when you and I have discussed in general is proof of value. Because we talk about doing a proof of value, proof of business case, not proof of concept which is bringing the technology. Yeah. So when Bumblebee looks at this, what's their business case? Where do they derive value from this solution? Yeah, so the value that they derive are two different funds. One is obviously they are the corporate initiatives around sustainability and fair trade. So they are able to ensure that the fishermen are paid fair trade value and they help grow the fishing communities there in Indonesia. The second value that they see is around providing confidence to the end customers and consumers who are consuming their products to be able to show them transparently the source of the fish and where it was caught and what type the fish it was, et cetera, et cetera. And the third big value that they see is analyzing all of this data that they're collecting across the supply chain and leveraging analytics to be able to look at fishing trends where the different spots are in the ocean when these fishermen leave their villages early in the morning to be able to direct them to where there's a probability of catching more fish. Oftentimes these fishermen are leaving like five o'clock in the morning and they come back late in the afternoon and they might just catch one or no fish at all. So being able to collect all of this data and analyze that and then incorporate other data that they have down the road in the enterprise be able to better their whole supply network in their quest to provide quality products to their customers are some of the key areas that they see value. Okay, great. Thank you. All right, so with that, let me quickly wrap up with one slide to summarize what I talked about. So first of all, enterprise blockchain and the success of this is predicated on a network participation. So it's not a single enterprise kind of a solution. It's a multi-enterprise solution. So you have to look at collaborative processes that are happening across multiple companies and everybody willing to be able to share the required data to be able to collectively gain efficiencies, reduce issues that are in their business today. So it's very important that there's network participation to ensure success of enterprise blockchain projects. Second, there have been a lot of questions about the scalability issues that might arise with blockchain technology. And what we have observed is that the technology itself is developing at a very rapid pace and it can be used today in a productive fashion. We've seen several folds of increase in the volume, transaction volume throughput. For example, in the multi-chain blockchain technology that we use for both these solutions over the past 12 months. So with that, blockchain definitely has the potential to enable efficiency gaining efficiency in supply chains. When you look at cross-company business processes, it provides transparency which leads to several areas to reduce costs and some of the other use cases that I didn't talk about the blockchain for international trade is a prime example where such kind of a transparency and a leveling field for everybody involved and opportunity to eliminate intermediaries can really help drive efficiency in the supply chain and reduce costs. And lastly, blockchain technology can be used to ensure product safety, authenticate products and promote sustainability initiatives as we just saw in these two examples that I walked through. So with that, I come to the end of my presentation and I'll be happy to take any questions. Okay, thank you Ganesh. That was an excellent presentation. We had a couple of questions here from Gary Matula that I think you answered portions of but he has one here about how many companies are actually live with the various solutions. And you talked about the pharma return solution sellable returns being five companies live with it right now. But let me ask a slightly different variation of Gary's question, which is what do you think the key success factors are? We see lots of proof of concepts. We see some proof of values but of those very few actually scale up to a production solution. What do you see as the key success factors or say another way the inhibitors to scaling those proof of values? Right, that's a good question and that goes to the very core of the blockchain technology. So as I said, it's very important from a success perspective that you have your ecosystem of business partners but agree to participate and share information. So sharing information is key and that's a discussion that one needs to get into depending on the use case. So there could be certain aspects that a particular business partner might not want to share. For example, the details of the formulation of a product or the bill of material or the price or the quantity that they're trading, et cetera. But in spite of that, depending on the use case there are several areas where value can be a certain but definitely to be able to do that you need participation from all parties involved in the multi-company process. And that could be a challenge and that could take some time. So you might start off with what we call as a minimal viable ecosystem and we recommend at least three participants in the value chain to be involved in that. And then as you start seeing value and demonstrate that to other members of the supply chain network that you're doing business with then you can help expand the business network constituents in your private blockchain and continue to expand on the value front as well. The other key area where depending on the initiative if you're doing sustainable initiatives or promoting sustainable initiatives, et cetera you will need to go all the way upstream to say the farmers or the fishermen who basically might be technologically challenged or might not have any huge stake in participating in this. So there should be certain incentives for them to be able to provide the data that you need. So in this particular example of Bumblebee here promoting the fair trade and getting fair prices for the fishermen is an incentive for them to be able to be part of such a network. And the approach that we are taking from SAP's perspective is to make it as easy as possible for these very upstream participants to be what we call as data contributors. So their participation could be accessed to SAP solution for your charge if they're just providing data. But if you are reading the data and analyzing the data then you are an active participant and will be subscribing to a different set of solution capabilities from SAP. All right, okay, thank you. We have a question here from Jean Ruda. Question is, can the sellable returns logic be applied to promote circular ecologic design in economics and other industries besides pharma? For example, peril end of life and in agricultural waste. So he's asking if the solution can be, use case could be extended to other. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we have been having discussions along several different use cases of that type. So it'll basically boil down to the data model and the different elements that need to be captured. So depending on the use case we will need to look at that. And this particular use case was very, very specific to the pharmaceutical industry because this is the second wave of the regulation. The first wave was about standardizing the data that is need to be captured or had on a QR code on each of the product packs which is like the batch, the expiration date, the EPCIS number, the product name, et cetera, et cetera. So the data model was built on top of that to be able to capture that information. So then these other use cases even though they sound similar we will need to basically look at what exactly is the data, where is it coming from and how and what you need to analyze that. But our vision is that specifically like this material traceability solution that I talked about this is very similar to other industries. For example, the high tech industry I talked about the safeguarding against counterfeit components where basically you're trying to look at the provenance of the product and product and you'll be able to trace that all the way back to the source. So as I said, the main distinctions will come in what kind of data you want to collect and hence have the correct data model. And the second one would be what would be the user experience look like for the various roles? What kind of analysis they need to do and what kind of insights and action they need to take based on that particular use case. I hope that answers the question but if you want to discuss that further feel free to reach out to me and we can talk about it. Yeah, I think you're on a couple points here Ganesh. One is that track and trace seems to be the most widely identified user experience use case within supply chain. Now, virtually everything you see and we see is in the track and trace area where you're looking to identify something up and down the supply chain whether it's the manufacturer of a product or the shipment of a product. It's all variations of the same use case. And the other thing is that she mentioned is access to data and identifying data and figuring out where the sources are and where you can get it from. And DSCI has recently done some research in this area that we call data trading. There's white paper available on our website but it's really putting together a framework and a structure for as you're looking across enterprise transformation opportunities and data sources that get shared up and down the supply chain is identifying what you need, who has it and how you can exchange that data in a meaningful way. So I'd urge anybody interested in that subject take a look at the white paper and it might provide you with a framework that you may find valuable as you continue to look at across enterprise transformation. We also have a question here from Louis Hurtado. It says, hi Ganesh, do you have a case in mining and mills business and in trading commodities, exchange markets? Off the top of my head, I do not remember but we have a whole slew of use cases across multiple industries. So definitely I'm sure we cover those areas a lot to go back and look at that compendium of use cases but if you're interested, please reach out to me and we can discuss this further. Okay, Louis says, thank you very much. I think you answered his question there. Do we have any other questions here? He says he will reach out to you if you see it. Okay, excellent. Okay, other questions either from the panelists and the members or others via chat here. You know, one of the key things that we have found at the Institute is to get started, it's very important to select the right use case. I can't tell you how many times we work with our members and you look at what they think is an opportunity for blockchain and you go through that use case and you say, wait a minute, there are other simpler ways to do this that may not be the best answer for blockchain, may not be the best answer for implementing that use case. So we have put together a, we call it the BFI but it's the Blockchain Fitness Index that takes you about 10 minutes to run through. It's a total of 22 questions and allows you to score your potential use case against others and give you an idea whether or not that you're on to something that could potentially provide value to your business. And then there's part two of that and this is all our blockchain return framework that then helps you do the gap analysis, set up the business outcomes that you would expect from a proof of value. And I mentioned it before, but proof of value is really what you wanna focus on. Don't test the technology, the technology works and the technology is getting better every day. What you wanna do is make sure that you're identifying business value and have a way to measure the success of that business value. And this gets back to a question that Gary had earlier on how do you measure the value and determine where it's generated? You need to make sure that as you go through your proof of value and your pilot that you've got a set of business measurements that are quantifiable and where you can determine your success and then turn that into a business case and scale it. Yeah, totally agree, Sean, those two tools that you mentioned are extremely useful to get started on understanding where blockchain technology can be applied and then what is the value, I think? Two key answers that you need to have before you get started. And I got one more question that we'll close out on here. This is one for you on, it's from Ray. I'm not gonna try and pronounce his last name, but any use case scenarios in the electronics industry to resolve counterfeits and more important anti-tampering along the supply chain. And I think you've got an answer for that one. Yeah, so the high tech use case that I mentioned was kind of along the same lines. So there were several different use cases that came up through the discussion, but the one that was prioritized on the top by all the participants was that there's a huge issue in the industry where these counterfeit components enter into the end product through this complex multi-tier upstream supply chain, which is global in nature. And depending on where these products go into it could be in a seatbelt of a car. And if there is an issue or defective component that goes in there, it's critical that those things don't happen because they are life-threatening. So things of that nature were all discussed and the general nature of the use case was we want to be able to look at a proof of concept where we bring all of these different entities in the supply chain together and be able to collect the data as the product is being assembled and manufactured to be able to track each and every component that goes into that end product. Right, and Ray asked to follow up here. He said specifically anti-tampering in malware. Right, right, yeah. So then, you know, what we kind of ended up doing was having a unique identification for each of the components that goes in there that's verified on the blockchain and all the certificates associated with that component and who's providing that component that's all visible to the entire value chain. So those kind of information and data can be leveraged on the blockchain to provide the integrity that is required. Okay, great. Thank you, Ganesh, and I'd like to thank you for taking the time today to educate all of us and share with us what SAP is doing and certainly you're making some, you got some good use cases and you're moving out of the lab and into production and very impressive work. And we thank you for sharing your insights with us today. To all the attendees, thank you for attending and you've got Ganesh's details there. I see there's a question or two that I may not have gotten to, but please follow up with either myself or Ganesh and we'll get you an answer. So that concludes today's call. Again, thank you all, have a great day. Thank you. And just one more thing regarding the white paper. I will be sending out the necessary materials in the recording of this webinar available to all the attendees via email. Hope that answers. Thanks. Great. Thanks, Sugathri. Thank you all.