 Hey, guess what it's time for voiceover body shop and our guest this week is the one and only Fred Melamed Fred How you doing? I'm good. Thank you. Pleasure to see you both and everybody out there Yeah, we're gonna have a great time talking to you about all sorts of cool stuff When when it has to do with acting and voice acting and what you got to do if you've got a question for Fred Melamed you can put it in the Facebook chat room and I know Jeff Holman is sitting in there anxiously awaiting with a quill in pen to Write those down and pass those questions on to us so we can talk to ask those of Fred a little bit later on and George you all set the roll I'm ready. I got my daughter right here asking for a password and I'm ready to go. All right It's time for voiceover body shop right now From the outer reaches they came bearing the knowledge of what it takes to properly record your voice over audio and Together from the center of the VO universe. They bring it to you now George Wittem the engineer to the VO stars a Virginia Tech grad with the skills to build set up and maintain The professional VO studios of the biggest names in VO today and you Dan Leonard the voiceover home studio master a professional voice down with the knowledge and experience to help you create a professional sounding home VO studio And each week they allow you into their world Bringing you talks with the biggest names in the voice of a world today Letting you ask your questions and giving you the latest information to make the most of your voice over business Welcome to voice over body shop Voice over body shop is brought to you by voiceover essentials.com home of Harlan Hogan signature products Source elements remote studio connections for everyone voice actor websites.com Where your VO website isn't a pain in the butt VO heroes.com become a hero to your clients with award-winning voice over training JMC demos when quality matters and voiceover extra your daily resource for VO success and now Live to drive from their super secret clubhouse and studio in Sherman Oaks, California Here are the guys Well, hello there, I'm Dan Leonard and I'm George Whidham and this is voiceover body shop or VO Anton voice in there Anyway, we're here to talk about the voice over business and we've got a great grass guest coming up in just a couple minutes Fred Melamed will be joining us and You know, it's interesting when you get up in the morning here in Southern, California And you put on the radio and they start talking about this brutal weather back east and I turned to to mrs. Leonard I'm like don't have to go shovel the driveway. Oh No, I don't it's just a fever dream, Dan. Oh no, I Missed the northeast knot. Mm-hmm. I miss my friends There's certain things I miss about it But you know after almost five and a half years here in Southern, California Well, there's room for you come on out because you know like all these big CEOs are leaving like you could move in to say Elon Musk's place Oh, yeah God didn't you move to can't didn't you move to texas? Yeah, something like that Hey, look, we got a great guest tonight Let's bring him on so we can present the important stuff that he's got to get Now here's a guy that's been on a lot of tv shows a lot of great movies Maybe you saw the serious man Or in a world or some of some great cone brothers movies, you know, I keep you keep popping up everywhere What's welcome fred melamed fred. How you doing? I'm doing good. Thank you I'm delighted to see you both see both dan and george and everybody who's who's watching Yeah, we're uh, you know, I see you everywhere, you know, because we're sitting around binge watching everything I mean it got so bad. We started watching, you know, turkish soap operas, but That were not dubbed So go figure that one Uh, you were not in those but you've been in almost everything else. I you know, we saw you in in london vision early on this season and Are you going to be doing more appearances than that one? Or is that just one division? I'm sworn to secrecy about almost everything to do with with london vision. So I can't say much about it other than uh I hope people enjoy it. I'm happy to talk about it but like not not permitted to talk in depth about it Certain aspects of it things that happen in the future Ah, well, you don't have no idea what time anything is going on with that show. Anyway, so well, there's a new episode every friday That's that's that's totally, you know, serially revealed Yeah, a lot of people are like it. It's pretty good. Uh, and and we were talking earlier this week that I finally watched a serious man And you were going to tell me that, you know, you didn't understand the ending either. I mean, I'm like, what? well, I mean It's what I I I I can't say that I I mean That's a it's a work of art. So I wouldn't presume To uh say that I exactly know it does sort of parallel the bible You know, there's a story in the bible of somebody kind of similar to the story of larry in that movie And I know what I I know what happens in the biblical story But I think it's meant to I think it's meant to confound you I think it's meant to sort of make you go That's what happened. You know, I think that's I think that is Was the intent of the cohen brothers Yeah, I think they they they achieved that so how how busy have you been during the pandemic? How are you? I mean, have you been working? What have you been doing? Well, uh, I've been doing voice stuff only. I haven't done any on-camera stuff whatsoever I'm at high risk for the various unpleasant Or worse than unpleasant manifestations of kovat. So I I can't do anything that uh exposes me to the risk of getting it Uh, other than the smallest possible risk. So I'm staying at home Um, I have been doing some work from from home. Uh, some animated shows Uh, let's see. I have some things that I can mention people Um, I have an animated, um, show that some people may have heard of called the harper house Uh, I appear on that serially. I appear on several several episodes of that. I also appear on effis for family Which is uh, it's last Going to start later this year. It's last season really a amusing interesting show that uh, I think many people Know, uh, some of your previous guests and friends mutual friends of ours They'd be dairyberry among others up here on that show. Um Uh, and then I have a bunch of stuff coming out that was shot before the pandemic Um, I have a movie called marzipan kind of interesting movie about An alcoholic kind of dried up Woman who works for the cia who has given one really big last Uh assignment and I play her handler in that movie. Um, that'll be out later this year Um, I have another movie coming out, uh, probably not for a year or more called hug chicken penny Which is a sort of de kensyan movie With a guy that I've collaborated with a bunch of times called s craig zahler wonderful interesting actor, I mean writer director Another film I have that was a big hit at sundance called together together Which will be probably either on cable or a streamer. I would imagine by this summer um Really sort of charming interesting movie in which I play ed helms's dad Um, and in that movie ed helms plays a guy who's single and wants to adopt A child Uh, and then decides he wants to do it via surrogacy So he finds a woman to be a surrogate with whom he doesn't really have any relationship at all And it's about what happens between them also very sort of interesting, um movie Um, another one I have coming out also a big hit at toronto called, um shiva baby Which is about a young woman Who supplements her income while she's a student Uh by being uh by having a sugar daddy who pays her for sexual encounters Um And then she's a she happens to be a jewish and she's invited to go to a shiva Which is a jewish funeral service with her family through somebody that she doesn't know very well But they're constantly going to these shivas and there she sees her sugar daddy this guy Who happens to have been uh good his family good friends with the Family of the person who passed away and they find out that they are their families know each other and it becomes extremely Excruciating for this poor girl. I'm sure yeah Wow. Well, the group you were very busy then and I wonder I'm seeing you have just about everywhere Yeah, and there's a bunch of stuff also just still on that that I've done in the last year year and a half Superstore, which is a uh cbs series medical police, which is on Netflix the morning show which is on apple tv Another movie that I have it coming out a kind of jewish exorcist a jewish horror film called the vigil I just wanted a very big also very big word So I have I have I have plenty of stuff. Um, that's that's in the rotation I have another film on hbo now called lying and stealing in which I play a really villainous unusually villainous character with no Comic apologetic posture just a poor downright nasty villain which is a lot of fun for me to play So that's that and that's a movie. I would I think people might enjoy Great. Well now I got all this stuff. I gotta I gotta go check out when it happens So you you've been I mean you've been acting for a long time. I mean, I mean you you were As is true with a lot of great actors You went to a really good school. You're a Yale graduate Yale drama school, which is a graduate school. Yeah So, you know all the great actors all have gone to these really good schools. I disagree I'm sure there's some really good actors that went to some really crappy schools But certainly ones to go to the good schools tend to be you see that in their resume, but We'll take it be a step beyond that because Trying to be good at something is you know, everybody wants to be The best or the greatest or whatever When you try to get into acting is that really the attitude you should have and what does it really take To move you in that direction Well that in my View is an excellent question. Well, thank you And an important question And in my view the answer to that question is yes It is worth it to try and be great at something at anything in fact You know, I have a I have a somewhat different take On voice acting than probably many other people Um that people talk to especially people that are just trying to get into it uh Because I think p very often get law asking questions That are not really the most vital questions. They want to know answers to things like Um, is it should I get the road mic? That's 250 or is it worth it to spend a thousand dollars to get the A k g microphone for voice over georgia. What's the best what's the best microphone for voice over that's doesn't that Take out a you know a second mortgage or uh, how can I get an agent? That's a really good agent to represent me. Is it worth it to get a good agent? Should I have more than one agent? Um, is it should I go on p to p sites? What about my website? Who should I have designed my website? Um all these questions which are of very very minor importance What really matters is Do I want to be good at this and if so, how do I get good at it? How do I get good at this and what is good at this? You know to me the idea of being a working voiceover actor a working actor Um is too molest by far a goal I wouldn't want to be a working dentist teacher bricklayer Um, I'd want to be great at any one of those things because otherwise why do it? To make a living I guarantee you I mean, I think people get the get the idea that you know, well, it's great I'll be a voice actor. I won't have a I won't have a boss. I can wear pajamas all these stuff It's a lot of it's much too much work If that's the goal just be able to make a living, um, you know a modest living and and not have to have a boss I'd choose something that was much easier Um If you're really successful at it and if you're really good at it the rewards are great They're great. I mean, um, I've had I've been Extremely extremely fortunate. Um in that, uh, I've been doing it for a long time And also I came to prominence in it when it was a much smaller Coterie of people that were doing it that aren't doing it today and the work was more concentrated and it was all union work and because of that I don't have to worry about working I can take a job if I want to and not I don't have to work anymore as long as I live That's extreme. That's that's the definition of extremely lucky extremely fortunate. Yeah. Um, but My point in saying that is um, I also wanted to be good at it So How do you do that? Well, I think the answer to that and By the way, my perspective also may be different because I'm one of the relatively few people that will come on this show That doesn't have anything whatsoever to sell I don't teach anything joy of this show is shameless promotion I don't teach. I don't give lessons. I don't make tapes. I don't coach anybody. I don't have uh round robins. I didn't do any of that stuff um, so I Value education on my value study But it's also my opinion that this enormous cottage industry that exists this side industry of of Training people and making tapes and all that kind of stuff Um, which has grown larger than the voice over business itself Um, is is in many instances, uh, not servicing the people that uh, it claims to service properly So I don't have any of that, you know As a as a as a As an influence in my in my my ideas about it So, okay, you want to be good at voiceovers Um, what does good mean? What does good actually mean? Well, you could use an external measure and say good means people are hiring me That's certainly a seems like a reasonable one reasonable measure But how do you become good by your own light by your own standards to your own ear? Well, how would you get good at anything else? How would you get good at playing the piano? or learning I don't know Spanish or being a writer or Almost anything that record that's a skill. That's also a talent. I mean there's both things involved Well, the first thing I would do is I would listen to people that I thought were really good I would really and if you don't know who's really good Then that's where to start Listen to a lot of different people tapes reels even people on tv and you know elsewhere movies wherever you listen And think who you really who really moves you. I mean after all What's good is what compels you right if a voice somehow makes you listen to it We live in a wash in a sea of information as everybody knows There's constantly voices advertising Programming programs trying to get our attention certain people Get our attention But they don't get it by saying hey look at me or if they do it our attention doesn't last long So there has to be something about what that person, you know Is it is it because they could do things clearly understandably is it because they can do things I mean that seems like a very very common ability to be able to do things clearly understandably You have to be able to do things in a way that cuts through the wash of stuff that we are bathed in and actually makes an impression you go Yeah Yeah The meats I want to get one of those Arby's. Yeah, that sounds good Or whatever it is. It really works for me. Yeah I don't even like Arby's, but I noticed I noticed ving rams on that ad, right? So at some level whatever you do has to effect the person listening to it At some visceral level That's what it has to do. It has to make him associate What you're doing if it's advertising with something that he wants to possess Or if it's something that's being acted with a feeling that you're trying to impart to a scene or to a character So that's that's I think the answer is To the question that you asked is it's worth it to try and actually be great at something and it's important to um I'm not I don't think that it's not important to make decisions about you know, how does my website look or You know that kind of stuff But that's about that all that stuff together is maybe eight or nine percent and the other 91 percent people don't worry about And that's where they should be worried Yeah, yeah, I I would I would I totally agree with that I know what i'm talking to people when i'm you know when i'm working with clients and helping them with their home studios and stuff and it's like you know You want to be better than everybody else be better than them You know in what your craft is You know, it's like well, she exactly what you were saying, you know, should I get a better website? Oh, I got to get this mic I've got to get this I've got to get Look, it doesn't really matter so much You know, technologically. I mean, that's what george and I do I mean we we talk with people all the time about here's how it's supposed to sound But in the long run, you know, how do you stand out amongst all these other people this huge tsunami Of people coming into voiceover and into acting and since acting sort of shut down everybody call them coming into voiceover How is it that you know, how do you stand out? You just got to be better? So If you're just joining us by the way, our guest is fred melamine We're talking about what it really takes to be successful if you have a question for fred About you know his career or what he's talking about about really what you need to do to improve your You're acting and voice acting chops put it in the facebook chat room And I know jeff holman is in there Furiously writing these things down and we'll get to those in just a little bit So what do you do as as an accomplished actor? How do you keep yourself? How do you keep acting fit? I mean, do you do you still take classes? Do you still working with coaches that sort of thing? No I do not okay. All right. I do not you're working fine. So that helps Well, I mean, here's the thing when you know when it comes to voice acting I think there's great value in in Practicing And there's value in practicing in front of people or having you know, listen listening to people but also listening to yourself I think as you get better at voice acting You know when you when you first start listening to yourself There's this kind of shock thing that happens you go Jesus. I sound like that And as you do it more and more the kind of difference between what you hear in your head And what the microphone actually hears lessens that gap is made up somewhere in your brain and your consciousness um So you have that that issue then you have another issue which is how does what you're doing fit into the overall thing You know, how does it how does it cut into um, whatever it's being used for the whatever way it's being used Then you have to listen to that Listen to it in the context in which it's intended. So I think it's worth it to really practice and listen to yourself Now what what I do is I think of things subtextually So people who are not familiar with acting expressions may not know the expression subtext in in Modern acting theory and by modern. I mean like 120 years old There's a concept about acting which is that there's a text Which is the words that we say that the playwright or the copywriter or whoever it is has written for us And then there's whatever is beneath the words now There's a character. There's always a character The character in if you see a film the character is very obvious that it's not that That it's somebody different than the actor Or sometimes it's very obvious not always sometimes. It's very obvious other times. It's not The way I think of a character is that a character is always me It's always me But it's me wearing a coat and the coat can be Extremely different from me in other words the coat may consist of An english accent it may be a person whose orientation towards Women is entirely different than mine whose orientation towards work is entirely different than mine who has to scrounge Money to come up with enough for dinner So that's all the coat and the coat can make me can be extremely different as I say and it can be almost anybody But it's me underneath because I must react realistically To whatever the situation is that I am faced with whatever I'm presented with Now sometimes it's a one-way conversation because I have copy to perform and that's all I'm not conversing with anybody in the sense that we normally think of it But still I think of myself as having a message to impart to the listener. I'll give you an example There was a commercial on tv a while ago for a An ice cream dove bars, you know those dove bars ice cream Right very very very high butterfat delicious rich now. I want one thank you very much anymore But uh very nice ice creams So the whole commercial was they showed this bar of ice cream getting somebody holding it out and it was getting chocolate molten melting delicious looking rich chocolate kind of dribbling all over this ice cream bar And that was the whole visual and the voiceover which was kathleen turner, you know kathleen turner the actress Now I remember this commercial. Yeah, this is years ago But stuck out in my mind and and I I can't remember what the copy was. It was very simple copy something about dove bars and you know The point was when you watch this You knew That whatever else was going on in your life however else your marriage was failing or You didn't have money to pay your mortgage The the the the five minutes or two minutes if you're me that would take you to eat a dove bar For that amount of time all would be right with the world in other words the experience of this dove bar Was was calgon take me away was and was was was uh Profound enough deep enough that all the other things in life that are semi satisfying not quite living up to your expectations don't matter When you saw this commercial and heard kathleen turner do this voiceover That was the that was you knew that that's what that's what the message was So that's an example of subtext, right? now sometimes subtexts are are Very obvious and they use certain things to associate Clearly for example car commercials, right high-end car commercials um They use things like luxury sensual pleasure often kind of sexy Suggestions that you know if you have this car a car is a reflection of who you are That's the that's the sort of basic concept in car advertising You don't want to drive a nova. They don't make novas anymore But whatever the whatever you go whatever the whatever the today's you go is or nova is Because that's you you're driving around, right? So if you're you know, I don't know if you're a Porsche kind of a guy or if you're a a I don't know how you you know, you can see yourself any one of a number of ways Maybe a Porsche. Maybe you see yourself more as a A cool-looking family van A Tacoma Yeah, but the idea is that that car is a representation of you in the automotive world So that's the way we're going to sell you the car You know that that this is an extension of you So you deserve this you deserve this that's a subtextual message, right? So if i'm read or another message is Um, let's say I have for example, I have a tesla, right? So teslas are cool. They're cool because they they are genuinely a new technology Which is a great technology and they're also a really good cool car to drive fun car to drive Elon musk had a very very clever smart idea Which was to introduce not the Model T first not the not the three that everybody can afford He introduced the super expensive one first That's very luxurious. That's built to last forever and that when people saw them on the street, they go Yeah That's a car. I want I want one of those, right exactly. So he created with with that car this This image So when I approach voiceover It's with a subtextual message now. It can be anything and it can have it cannot relate to the text at all There are some instances like for example See the usa and your chevrolet. That's that's nobody's old enough to remember that means but that that used to be a that used to be a The tagline for chevrolet automobiles trying to think of something. That's a really memorable Modern tag We've gotten so far away from things that are memorable. Well, Arby's we have the meats for example one we mentioned a short while ago So what is the subtext that ving reims the great ving reims that a wonderful actor who is the guy who voices that commercial those commercials Um, well, he's certainly he certainly grabs our attention, but if I were doing that commercial What would I use as a as a subtext Well, I'm just guessing I'm just trying to come up with something. I think maybe something like Um This is a meal that you're gonna have That you will be thinking about next week and next week and next week and when you come to work You're gonna be thinking about lunch all day It doesn't say that anywhere in the in the text I'm just thinking that And with the words the few words that I have to say which are Arby's we have the meats I'm gonna be saying in my mind and trying to get you to feel It doesn't matter if you get a work at 7 30 You're still gonna be thinking all day about the time you could open this Arby's at 12 30 when you have your lunch That's a subtext It might work. It might not You can always try a different one Yep Yeah, yeah, I've watched enough super bowl commercials. You're like, I don't think they nailed that one Quite the way they should have but and then sometimes they do. Yeah. Yeah. Once again, we're talking with fred melamed About voice acting and subtext and those sorts of things again if you've got a question throw it in the chat room We're gonna take a quick break right now and we'll be back with your questions and Find out what fred uses in his studio Right after these messages Well, hello there I bet you weren't expecting to hear some big voiced announcer guy on your new orientation training for snapchat. Were you stick around? You don't want to miss this Power 1039 at target. We want you to come as you are be comfortable Okay, maybe not bathrobe comfortable Pants for the customer on aisle four, please Watch anywhere anytime on an unlimited number of devices Sign in with your netflix account to watch instantly at netflix.com The ice cream maker is a big risk that can have huge reward Until you forget to turn it on Well, that's it guys time is up Hey, it's jmc. Thanks for watching the voiceover body shop If you're demo ready or looking to get there check out jmc demos dot com and see a sample of our work Now, let's get back to dan and george and this week's tech wisdom Hey there, it's david h. Lawrence the 17th with vo heroes and you may be watching voiceover body shop vo bs Because you're interested in becoming a voice talent and you looked around the internet You found that this was a great place to come and you're absolutely right Um, but you don't have any of the knowledge yet as to how to get started and I'd like to help you with that I've got a free course online. You can take it anytime you want It's called getting started in voiceover and it walks you through the equipment you need The business side of things the actual categories of voiceover work that you'll likely be pursuing And also the mindset that you need to have when you're getting started and moving into being successful At doing voiceover for a career. So if you're an actor or you're not an actor You want a side grade from another business you want to learn about voiceover? Go to vo heroes dot com slash start That's vo heroes dot com slash start For the vo heroes getting started in voiceover class and i'll see you there So I was talking to harland hogan this morning. He described chicago as having Parmafrost with more snow on the way But something warmed his heart a letter from a satisfied voiceover essentials customer And here's what he said Hi harland getting started in the voiceover business and want a big value for your dollar Look no further than harland's portabouth pro and the vo1a mic These got me started and have proven valuable in producing over 50 titles on audible Great results for a great price right out of the box. Douglas Burke the agile narrator So if you do audiobooks clearly these two products from voiceover essentials dot com can help you get it done Go on over to voiceover essentials dot com to see all the great voiceover recording equipment and accessories You'll ever need that's voiceover essentials dot com the home of harland hogan signature series products like the vo1a mic And the portabouth pro and plus. Thanks harland. Hi, this is bill farmer and you are watching voiceover body shop It's great And we're back with friend melin and we're talking about Voice acting and and really what it takes. Let me ask you now. I can see you've got a microphone in front of you I do What do you what do you have in your home studio? Uh, well, I have two microphones that I alternate back and forth with this is a neumann u87 I microphone I'll tell you the reason I have this microphone Um when I started first of all I was the second person that I knew Of all the people that I knew in the voiceover business to have a home studio. I built my home studio in 1992 whoa So what is that 20? 29 years ago 30 years ago So and as the technology changed, of course I had and when I when I built my home studio this I I didn't live in california then I lived in new york city And um the only way to go live uh to do um A live recording to hook up with another studio, which was now a very old technology called switch 56 Um, which was before istn. Yeah, uh A very By our standards primitive system, but it worked, you know, it worked fine But the the it wasn't made for consumer use it was made for recording studios And it was expensive and big and hot and it had to have fans in it and stuff like that So anyway, what I did I lived in an apartment in new york And I had a big walk-in closet quite a good roomy walk-in closet So I just took that walk-in closet and I put up sonics all over it and I carpeted and stuff like that And then I had a a thing custom built for my computer and my microphone and a mic stand and that sort of thing Now to give you an idea of how long ago this was I required for my recording a 1.5 gigabyte Hard drive a 1.5 gigabyte hard drive that was rack mounted Oh my god 1.5 which was was the largest one that you could buy commercially at the time It cost $12,000. Whoa $12,000 for a 1.5. You can go to um staples now And get something that's 10 times that big that's the size of your finger And it's in the 89 cent bin. No kidding Seriously. Yeah, exactly So this This is all just to show, you know, how that how radically things have changed, but I've had this mic this neumann u87 since then Um, I'm the reason I have this mic another 30 years. I hope so. I hope I'm still around when this mic is still Um, the the reason that I got this mic was because at the time I had to match all the mics in the new york studios. That was the idea So it wasn't because this mic is I mean, it happens to be a very very good mic In my opinion But the real reason was because I didn't want it to sound Like I was different than any other studios that I was recording in so at the time This was the ubiquitous microphone for new york studios for voice recording at the same time. Interestingly um Here on the west coast california This mic was not so much the uh mic of choice it had become Because of well, I I think I've heard this story. I think it's true. I don't know if it's entirely true Um, largely because of ernie anderson. Oh the 416. That's the legend. Yes. Yes. Um, another mic, which is a highly directional This is this mic is a cardioid shape. Well, it has a capsule. You can change on it You can change what how you want it, but I usually use it in the cardioid shape. This is all boring. Well, this shit I don't know. I'm just Okay, so um There was there's another mic um called a 414 That is much more directional and for my kind of voice I have a kind of a deep voice and in my view I actually sound better on that mic than I think I do on this mic sometimes This mic is has a lot of low end on it as you know And I think I need a little bit more Emphasis on sharp and of course what this can be done without microphones. It can be done, you know in in in uh with with um Various kinds of equalization Right, but in terms of just raw sound I kind of like the way I sound Less I think I like the way I sound better on the 414 than I do on this mic You tell him about the the akg 414 or the shotgun mic. Oh, oh the 414 No, I What I said 440. I'm talking about the shotgun mic the 416 right right right 60. I'm sorry. I said 414. No, there's also a 414 That's why that's an akg shape like sort of like a pyramid shape. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I'm at the 416. I'm sorry Yes, right, right I think on that that shotgun 416 mic. I sound a little better That is a is a is it was meant originally for doing film recording and it's a long mic if you've seen one with a small capsule at the end of it Highly directional. So if you use that you have to get used to really not moving much But I think I sound better on that and certain people do the rumor is or I don't know the legend and you George says maybe it's true. I don't know the legend is That the reason that mic became so ubiquitous in california Was because um, this very well known, uh, voiceover artist of I guess the 70s Yeah, yeah mid 70s for abc. He was the voice of abc Which had loads and what else I don't remember all those years ago The guy called ernie anderson the father of paul thomas anderson the notable very notable great director Who? Became paranoid or Un uncomfortable about people talking about him while he was in the booth So he insisted on sitting This is the legend insisted on sitting with the producer In the part of the studio where the producer sits Talking into this extremely directional mic Now that's what people say the truth is I don't know if it's really true or not. Of course, also Do you know I mean he wanted to be in there, but probably also it's just a lonely gig I think because in those days and you know all that announcing was truly life Yeah, and so you were in that box for hours And uh, you know, so you can look at her a couple different ways, you know, there's the They hit one people talking about him behind his back Yeah, and there's also he had a better reputation anyway He didn't want to be alone But whatever the case the 416 was the only mic that could Reject all the background noise from all the machinery in that And it does have a different a different sound. It's a little more compressed Sounding. It's a little more high-end II think, you know, it's the sales mic. Yeah for selling stuff. Yeah um By the way When I first became friends with donlaw fontaine now, I I don't know how many listeners know who donlaw fontaine was I guess a lot a good number of them So when I first got to be friends with donlaw fontaine He used to drive around from studio to studio in a white Stretch limo. It's a deal on it, you know on the door And that this is before cell phones But there was a thing called a ship to shore phone Which was a radio phone before cell phones and they were very expensive and they didn't they didn't work that correct But he had one in his limo And what he used to do was he when fax machines first came into being He put a fax machine in his car And hooked it up to his ship to shore radio so that he could be faxed the scripts So that by the time he would get to wherever the studio and you had to schlep all over in those days Between the different studios So he spent half the day sitting in the car going from one studio to to another So rather than wasting the time just sitting there, you know in the car in the traffic He would get advanced copies of the scripts faxed to him So that he would have know what they know what they said and I guess be up on them and practice them So when he got in the studio, he just sit down do them run through them and leave and go to the next place So that was we've heard these stories in many times. I know george Knew of knew him personally and stuff. We got a lot of questions from our audience here You're ready to tackle some of these absolutely. All right Uh go for a george top one there from jeff the very one that's the first one on the top Is from jeff genius. I am hoping that's the right way to say that name Um, what is your what are your top two or maybe even three acting books? Book recommendations. Do you have any that pop off the top of your head that you like? Yes, sure. Um, The I'd say my number one favorite. Um Let's see Uh is a book called respect for acting by udahoggan That's a that's a book. That's not difficult to understand. It explains things in a kind of an easy way um, and uh, that would be my number one choice Um, the second one is a is a kind of just very old fashioned But very good book called an actor prepares By konstatine stanoslawski the famous acting theoretician and the third one Um, which really had a big effect on me personally um Is actually anything by a guy called michael chekov who had an interesting view of acting where he He said every character has what he called an essential gesture Which is a kind of a metaphoric way of looking at a character in other words to give you an example um, I for the people that are familiar with the movie a serious man um, I play a character in that a kind of an odd character who's a villain but his style of villainy is Strange and unctuous where he kind of makes people relax and he has this very cool way of talking where he He kind of calms everybody down And my idea with this character was that he was a massager the cyableman character He would massage people Either with his voice or with his way of handling them So everything he he he does is essentially a massage So this is this kind of michael chekov idea of an essential gesture for every character Yeah, my top picks. Yeah Matt zacco asks Do you think being an on-camera actor makes you a better voice actor and what do you like about each craft the most? Well, you know, they're they're very different although they use some of the same things um I do think that being good as an on-camera actor Can improve your voice acting and vice versa. I think learning either thing can help the other But they're so different because in voice acting You have no visual and therefore You have to put everything into your voice As I as I think of it as I look at it. I mean, you're always trying to communicate something with your voice Whereas an on-camera acting I almost never think about my voice at all. I let it do what it does, but it's it's it's um It's always In the service of the character as I think of it So I never think of doing anything specific with my voice other than what other than trying to To impart what the character is actually experiencing um I think anything that narrows your focus Improves your acting both your voice acting is a strange thing you Narrowing your focus widens your mind. It's one of those strange paradoxes Um concentration is a big deal in acting. You have to be able to concentrate, you know And when you're acting on camera, there's people Holding lights near you and things go wrong You have to remember places to stand and there's all these technical things But in a sense you have to kind of take that all into your consciousness and yet make it very very Narrow your consciousness as to what you're doing. So all these peripheral things don't uh distract you It's a concentration game And I think that also applies to voice acting, but I think you have to you have to You know, you're gonna constantly get Direction like, you know, uh, that was great. It was 0.7 seconds. Uh, we want it to be 0.6 seconds But have fun with it Or things like that Where you have technical things to observe and yet Your mind can't be too Caught in the technical because you still have to make your point as an actor Meaning meaning is first Your meaning is first So you have to kind of balance both things both the technical aspects and also the human side of it That's the that's the skill part of it It's being able to balance those things and not get thrown off when they say to you Well, we need it 0.6 seconds faster And not have it sound we need to 6x we need 0.6 seconds faster, but we want it to sound slower I've got that one. Yeah, well, everybody's gotten that one. Everybody's gotten it. Um, so you know You have to sort of be able to still keep your thought pure and let in all these things But keep your mind on the on the on your goal So to speak on the other half that question was what do I like better or Well, what do you like most about each? Well, what I love about acting In general and I think especially about on-camera acting Is that it's so consuming to me That I can't think about anything else I like it for the same reason that I like gambling Uh, it takes my entire consciousness to do it which is an experience that I really enjoy And there's an element of uncertainty about it. There's always a leap involved I never know if it's gonna work. I have a suspicion. I hope it's gonna work And I think I think to myself Well, I know this could work and this could work and this could work But I never really know there's always an element of leap in it And what comes back, you know, we'll see it's it's funny You'll read a script sometimes you read a script and you think well, this is really good And look at all these great people are in it all these other actors that I know and they're great And this should be great and then you do it and then it doesn't it something about it chemically does not Jail the way that you wanted and vice versa. You can have other things where you think Gee, I don't this doesn't auger well And then you get on there and you do it and somehow Something catches something, you know, you get lightning in a bottle to use a corny expression Something happens. There's a chemical element to it that you can't really predict So I love that about it the fact that there's always an element of Chance in it and you have to really focus your mind on it Voice acting Is interesting because of its limitations And I also like about voice acting That I'm a person who grew up never liking the way that I looked. I always thought I was not particularly prepossessing looking So I felt much freer In front of a microphone where I could be different things Then saddled with the way I look which, you know, I can play different things, but I'm not likely to play certain things You know, uh, so so whereas in the voice world, my range is much greater I wanted This question came up because somebody in actually Jeff Holman for our very own really wanted to know because he Saw your resume in imdb and he saw that you were playing these kind of older Authority characters like judges and he said that seemed to be where on imdb Where your career seemed to start So he was wondering like Is have you looked have you looked like this since you were in college? Did you fit those roles? No, what I have I've had a strange career Um, and I'll tell you I'll give you the short version of it, you know I I I went to Yale drama school as as dan said with the intention of becoming a so-called serious actor and I started out I got a right after drama school I got a job at a theater out in minnesota called the guthrie theater for a year And then I got a job on broadway and amadeus on broadway and in a tour of amadeus, which was a big tony winning show of the 80s And during that performance of amadeus during that time of doing amadeus, which I was in for 16 months I developed this unbelievably bad crippling stage fright Absolutely horrible crippling and this I already been an actor for a while and it became so bad That I thought Jesus. I made this horrible mistake. I don't like this. I really don't like doing an eight show week and It became I I thought I was you know, I thought what am I going to do like I you know Here I said to people I want to be an actor and people said, oh, it's very hard You shouldn't do and I said I'll show you and now I got this broadway gig and I I totally miserable I don't like it and it's a great play. It's a good, you know, it's a good opportunity I have a lot of friends who'd be thrilled to have a broadway gig, but I don't I don't I don't like it at all So when this run was over I felt kind of bad and defeated and you know, I thought Jesus this is bad and I happen to have an agent Harry Abrams Abrams artists, which has since become a three artists, but at the time it was Harry Abrams and he had a lot of very big voiceover clients and I knew about the voiceover world because my dad had been my dad was a television producer And he had been good friends with a very famous announcer in back in the day Guy called Kenneth Roberts, who was the father of tony roberts the actor tony rams. Anyway I knew that I knew about As we used to call it a voiceover work and you know being an announcer in those days And I said to harry listen, um, you know, I'd really like to try doing voiceovers. I said, well It's a tough market to crack and they don't really want people with sonorous nice voices They want people with voices that that cut through I said, well, just give me a chance. So he did and This was 1984 or five Right out of the box. I got some really nice big accounts. I got Mercedes Benz I got mci which is a phone company that people don't remember anymore. I remember I got um conica, which is an oil company. So I had some very big accounts So at a young age, I was still a young guy and I wasn't not married. I didn't have any, you know, big responsibilities So as a young guy, I started to catch on in the voiceover world And um, I kind of got spoiled. I didn't want to drag my raw meat out into the cold rain and subject myself to all the rejection of being, uh, um, you know a regular actor again when I was a kind of a star in the voiceover world Uh and making, you know, a lot of money and all that especially for a guy with no Family and didn't have to worry about any of that stuff. So I really liked it and I also got very very fat. I weighed 400 pounds. I ate constantly and Yeah, so it was not it was not an entirely healthy period But it went on for about 20 years where that's all I did was voice acting and occasionally There were some casting directors who liked me Woody Allen's casting director a wonderful cast director called juliet taylor and Some another guy howard fewer. I was kind of a favorite of theirs. So they would just call me up I wouldn't audition they'd say well woody has a psychiatrist. It's six days. You want to do it So I said, yeah, yeah, that's fun. I don't like to do that, but I didn't have this strong Desire to be great at it. I just kind of it was sort of like a hobby of mine I wanted to be good But I was I was busy enough doing voiceovers and I was the signature voice of a lot I was the signature voice of usa network. I was a signature voice Of mercedes-benz. I was a signature voice of the super bowl. I was a significant signature And those days people had there was such a thing as signature voices cbs sports NBC news. I had all these big accounts So I didn't do any real acting except for an occasional movie that would come along for a long time and then The last really big account I had was cbs sports and I was the voice of the olympics and the super bowl and all that stuff And then a new regime came into cbs. This was about 2002 I guess three I don't remember 2003 maybe and they Changed everything at cbs. They changed the graphics package. They changed the music and they changed me Now at the time there was this big kind of c change in the voiceover world and they didn't want people with deep Dramatic voices like mine like james or old jonesy voices They wanted real sounding voices all of a sudden And I haven't sounded like a real person since when I'm about eight or nine years old So I was like and I had been a I had been a visible enough Player that I was all of a sudden kind of like part of that Those companies we don't want anymore. I was part of that old crew of guys So my success while I was grateful for it kind of worked against me because I was part of the old guard And by this time I had two kids and I was married and I had a house in montauk and a house in new york and a lot of You know responsibilities and all that and all of a sudden You know instead of making seven eight hundred thousand dollars a year. I was making twelve thousand dollars a year Six thousand dollars a year this went on for a few years Uh, and you know, we had some money saved and but you know with kids and houses and all that it gets used fast And uh, so I was things got kind of dire And I was sitting there A friend of mine had said to me look you have enough money for like one year before you have to like sell Your house and make some really serious changes. What would you like to do? I said well, if I didn't have to worry about it, I'd like to go back to acting and writing like I did when I started But I mean it's so it's such a crap shoot, you know, and he said well, why don't you try So I did to know huge success initially. I was on you know, uh Law and order svu like every other person who's ever done a Demonstration of a food processor blooming tails, you know has been on law and order, but not as a dead body I was not a dead body too fat to be a dead body never could lift me So, um, I did that and you know little things like that and then one day I was sitting there with my wife in montauk and the phone rang And she my wife answered it and she said, do you know somebody called joel cullen? This is 2007 one of the brothers. Yes So it was joel cullen and I knew them a little bit because I had gone to drama school with frances mcdormand And john torturo and bunch of other people from and I knew john goodman people They're you know retin knew of people and I had auditioned for barton fink for the movie barton fink Although I didn't get the part but they remembered me So joel cullen said listen, we're doing this movie Uh, there's a part and I just have a feeling you'd be really good in this part. Are you interested? I was like Let me check my book. Yes. Yes So I went to new york and I met with them and they said well, we definitely want you to do it We're not going to audition anybody. We definitely want you to do it But the problem is we don't know when we're going to get to it. We're working on a three movies simultaneously One of them is that this movie a serious man. We're also doing, uh Burn after reading and I don't remember what the other movie was I said, but we have to do burn after reading is kind of a Star studded movie. It has george cloney and brad pit and we have to do it based on the availability of these people So we didn't make a serious man and a year passed I thought oh, shit. This is one of those things that happens in show business Where is a great part? It's a great script and it's going to just fall apart as frequently happens So, um, then after like 16 months they called and we made it And then I had another wait another year for it to come out because it takes that long to post a movie But when it finally did come out, it was nominated for best picture at the oscars. I was shortlisted for an oscar I won an independent spirit award for it and all of a sudden at the age of 52 or whatever I was I suddenly had this second Act of my career Something I never in a million years would have um bed on Yeah, so I was extremely lucky that it that it all came out that way But I had a long period when I did nothing but voice acting Well, I'm glad you told that story because somebody else would really wanted to know where the voiceover came along So I'm we got to hear that too. I'm not sure we're doing well frat It has been fabulous having you back on the show and those are fascinating stories to you know, really they they really do Tell people what what this business is all about. We really appreciate you Bringing your your expertise and uh an experience to us So people can know what to think about so I really appreciate you coming on Are we at at the end? I want to just say one one more thing if I can't go for it Please do okay, so I heard I was listening. I heard this great description Um about show business to learn how show business works. Um, it was from um Oh god the guy who played doogie hauser Oh, uh, yeah So neil petters was being interviewed and he said when he first got that job of playing doogie hauser Um, neil botchko who did that show sat him and his parents down took him out to lunch and said I want to explain to you how this business kind of works He said it's like surfing You paddle out there You wait you wait you wait for a wave And then you don't catch a wave and you see these other people catch this wave and they ride it in and everybody says yay And it's great And then you get a wave And you ride it in and it's fantastic And people are shouting and you love it and it's great And then you're of course the wave ultimately crashes on the beach And then you have to paddle back out again And wait for a wave again, and maybe you get one and maybe it takes long and maybe it doesn't and That's the way show business works. Yeah, so for everybody so You know the message is if you have faith in yourself, which you must have in this business Don't give up hope and also Don't think that the good times last forever be prepared for everything because that's all part of it Absolutely well friend. Thanks so much for being here. It's great to see you again and you too And eventually we'll all get together in person one of these days. So anyway, uh, thanks for being here We really appreciate it. Great to see you Alrighty, all right. We'll be right back to wrap things up right after this Hi, this is bill farmer and you are watching voiceover body shop. It's great In these modern times Every business needs a website when you need a website for your voice acting business There's only one place to go like the name says voice actor websites dot com Their experience in this niche webmaster market gives them the ability to quickly and easily get you from concept to Live online in a much shorter time when you contact voice actor websites dot com Their team of experts and designers really get to know you and what your needs are They work with you to highlight what you do Then they create an easily navigable website for your potential clients to get the big picture of who you are And how your voice is the one for them plus voice actor websites dot com has other great resources Like their practice script library and other resources to help your voiceover career flourish Don't try it yourself go with the pros voice actor websites dot com where your via website Shouldn't be a pain in the you know what Well, it's time to talk about source elements again the creators of source connect version What are we on 3.91? Source connect standard the version that you should be using today and you've probably been using for at least five years now That's how good this program is it's been around that long or longer. Actually, it's originally came out in its original form over 15 years ago It is the tool that's being used now to produce The biggest budget commercial promo trailer and a lot of other projects as well remotely And that's because it allows your voice to end up directly in the production It inserts it straight into the track Of that pro tool session or whatever system they are using at the other end so that it improves their workflow It's a tool that makes productions flow They're efficient And when set up correctly it even allows an engineer to record multiple voice actors all to their own tracks And then when the session's over The producer goes right to mixing. It's incredibly efficient. It works great. The sound quality is top notch And you really should have it so get yourself set up get the demo at the very least So you have an idea of the process of setting it up. There are quite a few steps If you really need a handhold go to george the dot tech slash sc and check out my guidance on source connect But get it up and running and make sure you have it in your Arsenal because it's going to allow you to take some of those bigger gigs And you want to be able to say i've got it when the agent comes along saying you need it Anyway, this is a great great product and we really thank source elements for the support year after year Okay, we'll be right back to wrap it up This is ariana rattner and you're listening to voiceover body shop v obs dot tv And we are back to say goodbye. We're gonna wrap it up and then re-rack it for tech talk So stay tuned for that if you're watching live right now Next week We'll have tech talk number 51 by the way And then the following week march 1st Mary Lynn wistner will be here. Hey, hey, I mean coach She knows the business inside out backwards and upside down Leaving let me get her back on for a while I'm not a lot of names on the donor list this week, but you know last week we had like 10,000 so Who do we got this week? Yeah, these names are all familiar. We've got christopher epperson christie burns And my old friend graham spicer So right those are names we read all the time because they are subscribers They probably Opted to send in a little bit of money every month Which you can do or you can just make a one-time donation if he got some huge gold nugget from one of our guests or from dan and I It's up to you how you might want to support the show, but we really appreciate it Yeah, if they didn't get a gold nugget from from fred tonight, then they weren't listening they weren't listening Some great stuff in there. Uh, we need to thank our sponsors, of course harland hogan's voiceover essentials voiceover extra Source elements bio heroes dot com uh Voice actor websites dot com and jmc demos Alrighty, also jeff holman for dragging all those questions out of the the chat room really appreciate And uh, of course our amazing technical director who pulls it off once again while not even being here Sue merlino thanks to her and of course lee pennie for being lee pennie and he knows who he is anyway, uh, we're gonna re-racket here and so stay tuned for tech talk and uh, remember, you know When it comes to your home voiceover studio, if it sounds good, it is good. I'm dan lennard. I'm george widdum And this is voiceover body shop or vio b s