 We are coming back to order, but we are now announcing that we're exiting Executive Session. So, yeah, we did that. And we have nothing to report. But I want to tell you, because we didn't warn the meeting for six, and so I wanted, you know, if you're wondering, like, wait a minute, what happened? So we have a situation come up today that required that we convene for an emergency meeting, which is one of the things that's, you know, one of the tools we don't use it very often, but we did tonight. We met at six o'clock in an emergency meeting. We went into Executive Session with our Public Works Director and two of our town attorneys at six o'clock. On an issue related to personnel. So that's why we were in Executive Session. Tonight happened to be an emergency situation. And then we exited and have nothing to report as I just said. Okay, so with that housekeeping and explanation underway, I want to ask if folks are here, if there are any items of, or if anyone wants to make public comment for items that are not on the agenda. And if that's why you're here, will you raise your hand so I can figure out how many people want to speak in public comment and then figure out what time we have available for everybody. So if you're here to speak on items of, make a public comment for an item not on the agenda, can you let me know? How that looks like everyone's here for something that we already have in the agenda. Okay, are there any additions and changes to the agenda? I would like to postpone the consent agenda to the next meeting. The entire consent agenda. The entire consent agenda, okay. Because these minutes aren't ready to say anything. Yeah, there's, yeah. All of the minutes are posted on the website as draft, but we haven't had a chance to review them again. Okay, so we are... So we're ahead of time. We are ahead of time. The warrants are here somewhere. Yeah, Rick's got the... Now, HPC first, but David, Sheet says he's coming. I would say probably quarter after 7.20. Okay, Neil's here. Neil, you want to join us to talk about Shade Tree Preservation Panel? Sure. Yeah, just, you know, we have the hearing and there are some changes, mostly minor stuff that came out of it, and we've got a new version that the Conservation Commission is happy with. So I think we're just... Did we get the new version? I don't know. I emailed it to you yesterday. I can send it along again. Yeah, yeah. This is in one of those emails in this recently. So can we just back up and then review the timeline? So you were here in the spring, and you brought the plan. It was June, maybe. Was it June? And then are you sending the Conservation Commission to another look at it? Yeah, we made some changes based on that meeting, and I brought it back to the Conservation Commission, and they looked at it and said... Okay. Great. And now we still have to have a hearing. Still have to have a public. The select board has to hold a public hearing. That's right. Do adopt the plan. That's right. So I think we just need to schedule a time for the public hearing. Okay. I need to be warned in two days in advance. What we said we would do last time is warn it at six at a night of one of our regular meetings. Yeah. Still in court for you? That's fine. Yeah. Do you do it or do you do it? I do it. You do it. Okay. So I think it's a good time for me to say that we warned the town highway seven continuance to October 10th instead of a regular meeting. So our regular meeting is October 17th, and then assuming that we get ourselves immediately back on course, then the fourth meeting of October is the week followed. And that's the 24th, right? I think that's the 24th. Yeah, that's right. So the 24th, would you want to do it the 24th? Sounds great. At six o'clock. Have folks in the board feel about this? That's fine. Anybody have, is there anything you want to say and I'll ask one of those questions? No. Okay. John. Mark any questions for her? I don't think so. I'm looking forward to the hearing. Okay. All right. So we will six p.m. on October 24th. And we'll put it on our agenda as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you, Neil. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Stay dry. Okay. Is there anybody here from the friends of Paul's school group? No, I think I can speak to that. It's pretty, I think it's pretty straightforward. It's a callous school group that wants to use the town hall portion for here. Yeah. Right. For three different meetings. And I think it's because there's a conflict at school with using space or something. And it's not like it's, to me, it's still a civic group. It's a school. It's what used to be the PTA or PTO. Now they call it friends of callous. So it's kind of the same thing. And they just want to use the town hall, but we wanted to make sure that that was okay. So if it's okay. If there's no, if there's no schedule conflict. Yeah. If there's no schedule conflict, I think it's a perfect use of the space. It's another municipal piece of town. It's not, it's a lot, I think we should be clear. It's not municipal, but it is civic. Well, it's school. Yeah. But it's not, well, this is where I'm actually confused. So is it? It's not government. It's not government. It's more like a, I don't know, is it like a booster? It's a group of parents that form, it's not appointed by the school. Right. It's the PTA. It's what they used to call the PTA. PTA. PTA. And I don't know whatever they used to call it. Is it a big group or just a small group? I think it's a fairly small group. Yes. But it seems to me what we would want it down here to be. Right. It's not political. It's not political. It's a civic group. We need to space and get clear so that we, so that we have a sense of, yeah, independent, an independent civic group associated with this Calis Elementary School. And we didn't want this for action. But I'm hearing the sense of the group that we would want to, and I'm going to use those more. And so we can put out a consent agenda for two weeks and we can let them know. We need to let them know that the sense of the board is that we would approve it. Doesn't that the committee that, I think that a committee set up that works this fall. But that's upstairs. That's upstairs. That's upstairs. Right. And they actually got this request. And they forwarded it to me because it doesn't really follow the parameters of the front of the Calis Town Hall to schedule. Okay. All right. Wow. Okay. So we'll put that on the consent agenda for the next time. And it's just for three dates. Yeah. I forget that. Oh, the sheet. You have. It is November 3rd, December 1st, and October 6th from 6 to 6, 6 to 6 30. Okay. Yeah. October 6th, November 3rd, and December 21st, and 6 to 6, 6 to 7 30. Okay. That's a little proof of that. Okay. Awesome. That was just for the consent agenda. No, I think it's in the agenda next time. Okay. I assume it's, it's only since a little after 7, she's been running since. Yeah. What about the rally? The rally that hurts one. Well, do we want to wait until? We don't have any. I don't think. No, I was thinking that we would talk about road report and public works that stuff all in a chunk. I was actually going to go to the agenda. No, she sends an email that I can read. Okay. So I'm heading along to the public hearing for revisions. Okay. We'll have the people come at that time and they want to talk about that. We'll have you can circle back and read this item. So what she said in an email that she sent to all of us here in DC. And it's about the zoning rights. And she says the planning commission has had their public hearing and received comments to the proposed regulations. The PC may decide to make changes based on the public comment enforcing and then from the select board, but they don't have a firm date when those changes might be, they don't have a firm date when those changes might be completed and sent to the select board. Maybe sometime in November, what they were doing is they were trying to get it out. We would have our public hearing and accept the changes. And then we could put it on for town mark, March meeting. But there isn't going to be time. So it'll either have to be a special meeting or it'll have to wait until the next time there's a general election. So could you help me out? I don't know this, but I don't. So the town plan is approved by the zoning ordinance. Excuse me. Is approved by the zoning ordinance. Right. Amendments to the zoning ordinance. Yeah. And those amendments have been the subject of ongoing work of the planning commission hearing. Yeah. And comment. And now in light of the comment they got, they're looking to make changes. Well, that's good. I mean, responding. So they're going to make changes. When those changes are baked, then it comes to us. Then it comes to us. We have to hold a public hearing. Okay. Duly noted. Duly warned. Right. And then if we get public comment and we think there's changes that We have to send it back to them. We have to send it back. Right. That's typical. So it always has to originate in its final form from the planning commission. Right. Then it comes to us. I guess my question is, do we approve it? No. It goes to the town. It goes to vote at the town meeting. Right. We approve the plan. The electorate of Cruz is on. And at a town meeting and what? Right. But not March because there's not time. Right. Because he has to have this whole process. Yeah. So it'll be either a town meeting after March or the following March. I attended the conservation commission meeting probably three or four weeks ago and they had some ideas that they were going to send to the planning commission. So they need to consider those comments they received at their public meeting, which I was going to go to. And then things went a little crazy. Yeah. I was going to go to. Do we. So just broad strokes thinking about timing. We could. So thinking about our budget coming up and probably at the next meeting, we need to talk about our budget time, how we want to do budget meeting planning. Yeah. So just folks make a note of that. But we're thinking around budget. We have, if we're not going to, that can be, that can be consuming. This could be a big deal. And it could not be a big deal. It's a hard part. The, the. Planning. I hear a public hearing for that. I would expect. Right. A turnout. Right. Exactly. Usually, unfortunately what happens, and I know it's frustrating for the planning commission is people more likely to turn up at our meeting and make comments and want changes to be made. And I realized that. And they didn't go to the planning commission. And it's unfortunate because, you know, by the time it starts, they're, like, they're ready to be done because they've spent months and years on this. And put a lot of thought into it. And put a lot of time and energy and effort. So when people show up here and then we ask them to make changes, it can be a little frustrating for them. So do we want. That's the process. So do we want to try to squeeze it in some time, really in the midst of budgeting unless we, but you said they have some things they have to do. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know how to, what to schedule it until they say. You're right. All right. So it would be premature for us to get your opinions. Yes. Okay. I think we should leave it on, you know, future agenda items so we don't lose it. Right. Okay. I'll put it down on the future list when I was 17. I hate this shutter. This is not one of them. No, me either. I can't see it. I've got David. Oh, it's David. There you are. Hey, David, we're ready for you. David, we're ready so you don't bother to get the chair. All right. That's right. I did bring it. You're getting so mischievous. You're on the hot seat, David. This is what you sent me today. Yes. Correct. We choose the brown or green. Oh, thanks, guys. Oh, nice. Thank you. That's really nice. And now that we also come. Are they still in the works? Is that what's going on? Must be. David, got that distressed. The other is bad, I think. It's a bit of a distressed one. Is that the other thing that I'm paying attention to? Okay. Yes, and we were until a minute ago. Now they're gone. Okay. David, so folks, if anyone has an agenda item in front of them, you're circling back. This is David sheets to the 720 item on historic preservation commission. So the grant agreement, this is the latest certified local government project CLG grant. You approved the grant application when it was submitted last December. It was awarded in January, but we have not received the grant agreement form until fairly recently. So here it is at last. Everybody for now, when we did that. The division is way behind in a lot of grant paperwork. $7,150. Yes. And so this is a smaller grant because this one is about developing a history tour for panelists that takes all of the information that we gained from putting the various villages on the national register of historic places. With each of those, a little history has been developed for all of the five handlets. We're in the final stages of completing maple corn. And that was the previous year's CLG. And that is still in the works. That's almost wrapping up. Atomand is done. So everybody's done except for maple corn. Maple corn will be completed in the next month, I think. And at that time, by the way, the town, when we give them the final paperwork for maple corn, then the town will be reimbursed. And I know that you went through this audit. Yeah. The analyst about that. Might have alarmed somebody. But you're always going to be down the grant that can't be reimbursed until the tail end. Right. You don't get reimbursed until afterwards. That's correct. So there's no reimbursement yet for maple corn. That's what's showing on the books. Right. This grant has yet to even incur any expenses. This grant is for. So this grant is one that actually, unlike our, a number of our grants recently, we're not going to award this to a consultant. That's usually what our grant is paying for. The person who's working with us to develop maple corn, for example, is the principal cost of the grant. This is Tobin Anderson. Some of you may know Tobin. He's on the commission, as is Susanna Blatchley. And the two of them are taking the lead on this latest grant to develop a podcast that will be used as an app. Or there will be a printed version, but there will also be this podcast and your ability to drive around Dallas. And here, the audio for with music by Susanna in the background. Here, the audio of. That's going to be so cool. The history of each and every one of the five hamlets and we're thinking of doing certainly historic places in the town that aren't necessarily in the on-clubs. And that will be, we're going to do this over a two-year period because it's going to be complicated. Those are expenses for it. We're going to bring Erica Heilman in to work with us on these. So Erica will be involved. They're a little group of people, including Dallas Elementary School. So we also want to engage with kids. We want to do things with them for a change. This is the fun one. In other words, putting all of the various parts of Dallas on the National Register is, does not engage the community as much as doing something like this. So now we take the history we've accumulated and written and do something with it, which is exciting. So it's going to be fun. That's great. David C.L.G. stands for. Certified local government. So, Dallas is one of the few rural towns in Vermont that has gone through this process. Once you're in your certified local government, you become eligible for historic preservation funds. These are federal funds that come to the division for the purpose of promoting historic preservation. And the division has long insisted that doing the National Register districts is the first priority. But once you get past that, then you can start to have projects like this. They're fun. Yeah. They're more fun and that engage the town. Do the boring ones first. Exactly. Got to do the hard work first. Yeah. You know, the very first grant of the East Cal Historic was for planning. So we diverted, the town hall was the other big thing that we did for quite a few grants. Yeah, I remember. To support the town because of the need to address the town hall, then the need to address the, so we've taken a few diversions in the past, but mostly we've been about these National Register districts. Right. And to be clear, for instance, it doesn't mean that like in East Cal, for instance, we got the historic register, it doesn't mean that people can't, some people used to think that you couldn't do anything in, you know, on your house or on a building that you couldn't make any changes. And that is not the case. That's correct. Listing on the National Register has nothing to do with regulatory activity. Right. Regulatory activity is done by a community itself. So the district that is in Kent's corner that is a design review district was done by an ordinance that was passed by the voters of Calis. Right. And it roughly follows the boundaries of that National Register district. Yeah. And when we started, that was the only National Register district in Calis. Today, now we have five, you know, which is exciting, which is more than probably any town in Vermont, I'm going to guess, simply because of our decentralized... Right, not only is it Hamlet. Yeah, this is a town of Hamlets rather than one that has a major village or village center. So it's a little different. Most of the CLGs are places of much greater population like Montpelier. They're downtown. So it dovetails with the downtown programs in many of these communities. So Calis is a little different in that we were rural and we're all volunteers. Right. Because most of these CLGs are run by the professional staff of a city like Montpelier, the planning department, for example. Right. Somebody like that. In terms of the work that we did previously on any one of the Hamlets, is there ever going to be a physical manifestation of that work like plaques or the QR codes or anything like that? That's exactly what this tour might do. Especially plaques with QR codes, yeah. This would help people go right into... I didn't used to know what a QR code was. Right. But I think you did it. You did. But it's... Yeah, we'll be using technology stuff that I'm sure I don't understand myself. But hopefully some of the others do. So we just need a signature on the grant agreement and that will start to develop this project. The East Calis. The song in the e-mail about the East Calis Store project. Right. $5,000 one. That's going... I started working on that when Wendy, who's never brought it to my attention, and... Anyway, we've got it sorted. We've got to figure it out. That's figure it out. Thank you for... That's all I care about. Yeah. So is there a motion to approve and sign the grant paperwork that David has to... Motion by Mark. Any other discussion? Questions? All in favor, please say aye. All right. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's a great tour. Thank you. Thank you to the HPC. It should be fine. Okay. It's like somebody just came in. Good. Yeah. Let me know if you have time. Yeah. Okay. All right. Do we have... Eric, do you want us to wait for Alfred on these curb applications? Is he coming tonight? I don't think so. Okay. Right? Is Jason Carmichael here? He said he got an e-mail with the... What time is it? He said he got the e-mail. Is Chris Carmichael here? Okay. And I'm going to recuse myself. Let's take your Chris. Just... I might want to wait until I get... What are we doing with Jason Carmichael? We're waiting for him. Here is... Okay, see. Hang on. Here is Carmichael. Have a... Are you familiar enough to speak to the curb kind applications? I prepared the curb kind applications. No, I'm talking to... I'm sorry, I'm talking to Eric. Okay, all right now. All right. Let the men's reflect that I'm recusing myself, please. Oh, you're recusing yourself for the... CKC. CKC. So, but just to clarify. Yeah. What's our disposition with Jason? Are we going to postpone it until he's here or what are we going to do? Well, we'll decide that when we see if he even shows up. Yeah. He may show up. We're going to go ahead and schedule. Okay. Okay, sorry. I'm going to move these. These are distracting me. Okay. Hi, Chris. Hey. Thanks for joining us. So, you submitted an application for a curb cut on... Pulisero. No, I'm on the wrong one. Yes. Yeah. Sorry. Thank you. All right. Why don't you tell us about your project and I see that you've met with Alfred? Yes. So, we've had... We had... Our project was reviewed by the DRV back in May and June, April and May, I guess. And we got our preliminary decision on June 12. And one of the items that we needed to follow through on as a condition of that DRV preliminary decision was the curb cut. So, we had... Initially, we had Alfred out to the site last year and then following the DRV decision, we asked him to come out again and take a little look at it. Okay. And so, the... You met with Alfred about the specific curb cut location. Correct. Rick, have you had a chance to take a look at this? Okay. Chris, you note that the site distance is 345 feet and 600 feet in. That's in one direction and then the other. Correct. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. And also, your application notes, this is helpful, the curb cut design and construction are according to standard AOTV71B, except there will be a gravel surface not paved. And, Rick, I'm going to wait for you to speak to that curb cut standard, which sounds like it is entirely consistent with our curb cut ordinance. And I can just add that when we went through the DRV process, that was sort of one of our questions was, there are two subsections of the B71 standard, one A and one B. Right. We thought we would fall into B and that was the finding of the board. That's right. That would definitely be compared to our standard. And that's what we would do with the B71. Rick, are you going to have... I'm still going to have a second. Yeah. Let's just let Rick have a second to absorb it. I just want to testify. You've always wanted to testify. Well, I think that what Rick has to say once he's taken a look at it may be the useful backdrop. This looks good to me. I mean, on the site lines, 345 and 600 feet. So, Alfred was out there twice, wasn't he? Yeah. Yeah. I guess we lied to you. Correct. Correct. What was measured out here. I got a verbal okay from Alfie before I submitted this. Yeah. Alfred did say at our last meeting it wasn't here or you weren't here, but he said that that was all set. I don't want to put words in his mouth when he's not here, but I do remember him saying that. Rick, are you prepared to say that it's consistent with the town's ordinance for curb cuts? Yeah. Okay. Is there somebody from... Anybody else on the board have a question or comment before? I'm going to raise my hand in our audience. Okay. Mary? I'm Mary Van Bekton. We would just like to request a site visit of the select board to review and look over the curb cut before a decision is made. So, Mary, can you say more on what basis? Because the questions that I'm asking are, is it consistent with our curb cut ordinance? So, is there a concern that it's not consistent with the curb cut ordinance? Yes, and there's a concern that there's another area that may be requested of curb cuts. I know this is for this particular curb cut, but I just think it's important for the select board to take a look at it. I don't know if any of them have, but... So, I just want to... So, our review is pretty limited in terms of curb cuts. We look at site distance primarily. Okay. And that the approach when it reaches the town road is a low-level approach. We have a future in curb cut that you folks are concerned may be in future plans. I'm aware of the concern about this property. Yeah. That is not what's under review tonight. And that would be reviewed in isolation and when we get an application, and we would, again, review it against the standards. Mm-hmm. Okay. So... Well, who are also worried a little bit about the... I'm sorry, can you say your name first? Terry Bennett, back in... You're with her? Okay. So anyway, there's a visual problem coming over a hill going down in... It's obviously going to be a place that you put it, but... But it's a visual problem where it is, you know, you're coming down over a hill and straight here, I don't know if you can see that on the screen. Do it on there. The question is how many... According to this, we got, what, 345? Hang on, Rick. I'm sorry. I'm just going to... Rick, Alfie, delighted you're here. We're on the CKC Holdings curb cut. You want to come and maybe join us? Yeah. Sorry, we were running super ahead of schedule. Yeah, so to recap, Chris is presenting on the application. We asked him to confirm sight distances. Rick is looking at the... I think you're looking where... Wally, if I speak for yourselves, you can speak for yourselves what you're looking at. Alfred, the CKC application for curb cut permit, you've been out there a couple of times. And what do you have to say? Yeah, Alfie. There's point of sight distance. They have an engineer looking at it quite extensively. I don't see any problem with it. Yeah, they marked 345 to 600 to sight distance. So Rick, did you be playing there? It's a B71 scan. Yeah. Shape and drainage and size. The radius, when I first looked at it, it was right on the hill bit, and then they decided to move down, which really made it better in sight distance. So there's no problem with it. John, did I interrupt you when Alfred came in? No, I didn't. So the location Alfred spoke to, the relocation, that's what's spoken to in the application? Correct. Yeah, I don't have to reflect the latest. Okay. He was one of our, he was in the middle of that. Okay, let's go back to Chris to finish. And then Mary, I saw your hand, Denise, I saw your hand before. So we'll go back to the folks in the audience. Go ahead, Chris. I don't have anything for you. Okay. Mary? I just, so this is just for the curb cut for the driveway. That's correct. Okay. So is that moving from the original curb cut? I think, where the original curb cut, the long road access, I think they moved. No, that's a different way. Like where they're going to have the driveway. He just said they moved where it's the road, the main corridor. What I heard is that they moved the proposed curb cut from the original proposed spot to a new proposed spot. Does that respond to your question? Nobody knows where that is. I mean, how far did they move it? It's smart. It should be flat. It's a survey. Yeah, notice the existing layout. Basically we did, when we first started talking to the surveyor, we had an idea of the driveway centerline. And once we had the detailed grades, existing topography, it was going to be hard to make it compliant with the B71B, because it was basically entering a little bit too far up Bain Camoli Road. And therefore it was too sharp of a transition as you started off the road and down onto the driveway. So I moved it downhill on Bain Camoli Road a little bit, which helps with the grade of the driveway. So we're still sight distance on that uphill. Doesn't that interfere with the old lead layer? No. So it's not the old snow little drip. It's more or more... It's very close to where we basically did the sidewalk this spring. Very close. And so it's actually further towards Bain's? Correct. Okay. By 20 feet or something. Okay. Okay. Denise, do you want to ask a question or make a comment? Yeah, I just wondered, is there an existing curb cut there already where the log landing was? I don't know. Not that I'm aware of. I don't know either. There's already places where you can drive into this log landing. There's two places that look like the best. Right. As far as I know, I discussed that with Neil Baker, who's been the consulting forester on that parcel for a while. He's not aware of any curb cuts, permits there. I'm not aware of any curb cut permits there. It hasn't been logged since we've owned it. Okay. And there was a hand in the back. Can you scan up and introduce yourself please? Yeah, my name is Jordan Keyes. I'm also one of the property owners part of CKC. So I'm just going to add Jordan Keyes. Jordan Keyes. Keyes. Jordan Keyes. One of the other reasons that we scooched the driveway down, technical term, scooched, I think, first of all, was under that regulation, we also wanted to achieve the radiuses in and out, so that we're coming in at perpendicular, which we wouldn't have been able to do if it were 10 feet up where we had originally wanted it. So we're proposing it. So after consulting the surveyors and the engineers, we moved it down to get those radiuses as well. So now we are coming in at a more appropriate level and also more desirable radius to the center line of the road. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Other questions from the board? Any? Looks good. I guess. So I just want to put that to my hearing. There was a concern expressed in the audience that the curb cut might not have ideal sideline because of the crest in the road. Am I understanding that you had some of that concern and you moved it in part because of that or just moved it for other reasons? It was moved for other reasons. And the crest of the road would have been part of what you're examining when you're looking at site distance. Absolutely. Yeah. Just imagine from a distance of three feet high over, you know, if you've got a brow, it's basically driver eye level through the crest. It's not generally good to have a driver near a crest even though you've got a sideline. It's distracting. You're only getting partial cars. Somebody coming over has a longer reaction time to see a vehicle. So this is how far from the crest? It's a pretty high crest where you can't see that the site distance in one direction is 345 and the other is 600. Is that just a crest of 345 or a 650? That's the outside. That's 345. Yeah. Okay. We require 300 feet because of that distance. And so at 35 miles an hour, that's not really a distance. I guess my other question, my other question, I guess of the board, do I understand correctly that our discretion here, this is like a building permit. I mean, it's a check the box. We don't have discretion to say, oh, well, we don't like it generally. We have to ask the question of whether it meets the 300 foot line of sight period. We have an ordinance that incorporates the standards that the folks are talking about. We ask Alfred, and it's not just line of sight. I mean, line of sight is influenced by, I don't know, other times they've been concerned. There's other... There's other... There's space. Spring flow. Right. Yeah. There'd be someone who lays all that out. Yes. And so it's a series of requirements. That's right. That's right. There are safety requirements. Yeah. Okay. And functional. Runoff, water... Right. And if it checks those boxes, then we are obligated to approve it. Right? But it's not... That is the universe of our discussion. Exactly. Yeah, we generally can't... We sometimes condition based on unique circumstances where it fits, but there are other concerns that are related to, like, water flow generally, or proximity to a wetland. We might say we need to ensure that there's state hay bales or something that's not stable. Right. Yeah. Okay. So Alfred, you've been out there a couple of times. Yes. And you're... You're essentially... I'm very comfortable with the location. And I think we should grant them permission to enter our room. So I move that we approve the application that's presented tonight. Second. Any other comments or questions? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. I'm gonna do that one anyways Yeah, Alfred's here Alfred. We we put aside the Jason Carmichael. Have a seat Are you comfortable there? Okay, so we also have the Jason Carmichael This road carpet application Further up the road near the property line and now it seems like he's asking for another one Closer to what used to be The next property down and it's unclear as to where exactly they want Yeah, it says 1700 feet north of the intersection with Blatchley Road Where is the other one? Is it on Blatchley Road? No, no, it's not on Blatchley Road. It's on Bliss Road. Both of them are on Bliss Road So I don't know what they're planning on building another house or another property. You've seen this, have you? I don't know that I have Because that stretch of time where my trailer wasn't working was when this came in Oh, okay Actually, Rick's got it called up and called Yeah, but if Alfred hasn't been out there Yeah So here's here's the other thing though based on what you just said can I finish is If there's another one we've already approved and have they started construction on that like how do these two fit together? Okay, so that one was installed Typically we've made a practice, you know, you've got one curb cut, you know So I don't know why they're asking for another one They should subdivide if they're going to do that. They should have two separate lots Yeah Right and he doesn't say in his application he doesn't say Yeah, so we want a table table for more information. Yeah. Yeah, okay. That makes sense And Will somebody I'll reach out and say somebody circle back to Jason say we got one Need more info. Yeah, so we need them need more info and we need him to come In person for a meeting, right? By the way, just for my education on history here Sort of this idea of one per lot Would we insist that the subdivision be underway before we grant the curb cut or would you know, is there a No, I mean for instance CKC, they're not doing anything yet, but we grant it You can have yeah, I mean if they can submit a curb cut application at any time they want I think somebody Well, yeah We've actually decided I Think we've decided to say but we're favorite. Yeah Just You do not appoint a clarification sure The the ordinance says pretty clearly that Curve got access needs to be approved for any kind of access at any point to a parcel It doesn't reference how many how many should be assigned to it has to do with access to the parcel in a safe manner So whether it's for logging or agricultural or driveway access, you know historically the one that is regulated most Considerably is the one relative to development activity and And the installation of the drive But our ordinance in Calvus says Even temporary access should be temporarily approved for granted. So I would Recommend taking a look at that and taking that into consideration Generally speak I'm going to address a little bit the rule of access management prevent it would not be in line with that around That is a constant problems down the road There's Yeah, guys, this is yeah, we've tabled this item. I'm glad thank you Mr. Keys and I Yeah, come back when this item is on again Okay, so yeah Or not yeah, make your make your decision I passed it around who has it right This is Jason Carmichael Conditions It's the application as a crew this I had the application but now it's gone. I think I gave it to Sharon because the application is That one Here here's the whole yeah, okay So what do you guys want to be able to take a picture of it before you go? So you have a copy if you want or you can wait till it comes in the mail Okay, whatever you want to do sure what that wasn't you It wasn't a yes If you want to take a scan so the conditions are as defined in the application Okay, so All right, so we've tabled the Jason Carmichael we've approved the CKC as presented Okay, road and bridge standards. This is this is just a quick item. We are not intending did not in any way Intend a deep dive on this at all tonight We've been There's we've you know, there's this is we've had a couple phone calls I think probably each of us has heard from a couple folks and we wanted to just For people who who are unaware we wanted to just say that the callous road and bridge standards were developed in over a period I wasn't on the board at the time but from what I What I've learned and was able to see in the record over a period of Maybe a year and a half for those of you who are around them and then approved actually in 2014 by the slide board and the select board at that time was John and Denise were on Toby Talbot was on Rose Peltchup and Got basses got basses and the committee was attempt. There was nothing not developed by the select board is actually developed by Over a year and a half people came and went from the group, but J. C. Meyer chaired at one point something happened. I think it was chair at one point Peter Harvey deadline Barbara Whedon Gray Schultz Conrad Smith who is no longer with us, but that group worked really hard to an upward there were records of you being at meetings until we was at and Toby was at meetings anyway, so so The callous road and bridge standards are not something new is really what I wanted to say It's not something new. That's recently come up. They were approved in 2014 re-adopted in or updated slightly in 2015 and endorsed again, and they've been on the Calis website since since And we've talked about them here, you know frequently over over the years So I just wanted to say that much so that people people have that information It's not it's not something new and Denise is working with Stephanie and others to kind of pull together a more detailed timeline Yeah, and we'll you know bring that up at a different time, but the point really was just that it's It's not something new that the like the slack were just you know whipped up last last week or last month No, well It was sure it was re-adopted, but but it was it was nothing new. We made zero changes. It was the same it was just Consistently trying to we are required are we not to adopt that? No, no, there's nothing in there that says that it had just got a while since the board had Clarified it and Wanted to put it back out there that these are the road standards as adopted, right? And when we don't adhere to them we that's you know we hear complaints about that So it seemed useful to just clarify that these are the Calis Road and Bridge standards So and we had we had to adopt a standard by the state law You do have to adopt a standard whether it's the state standard or then you can vary off on that, right? So you do happen how to say that you don't happen two years or happened in 20s That's what happened. We adopted right well Let me further clarify how for it's correct We have to adopt one of these standards if we want to qualify for the ed 10% Right, that's right. We get a 90% state match projects if we had adopted standards that are that come forward with Stormwater control requirements and they have a set of requirements to deal with runoff problem runoff There are towns that didn't and they're only eligible for 80% match or depending on maybe the 70% but if you want to get that higher level of reimbursement you need to Operate at this higher level of I guess environmental protection in the roads program. So We designed or devolved our subcommittee of the select board committee appointed a sub board Recommended these and we had hearings and meetings on it and we adopted them And the state by the way approved them as well As comported as an as an alternative that meets their expectations So that was the that was the point of the agenda item As far as the state approving it there's a lot of things that has changed since the state may have looked at our standard what in terms of the state In terms of the grants The new standard we have followed for the like Champlain cleanup That's totally different now All the grants all better back road grants. You have to follow their standard So I think that you want to have your standard you got to get them to look at it or else you're gonna lose all that To revisit that's based on your recommendations and We're gonna look for input from the road crew and then folks, you know, it should be an all-evolving Conversation operates implement them to the best of visibility and he's told us numerous times that they don't work fully and so we're trying to figure out where there are Impediments and where they continue to work. So that's we are open to our goal to hear what works and what doesn't work from So we can make appropriate adaptation Not so that it's it's not a matter of well, they don't work. So we throw them out And the state is aware of these standards because they approved them Now Okay, I think I think we're done. That's what we needed to say is just to you know, I Wasn't on the board then so I've learned some things Groove payment No Pavement groovy. I meant that they used that term since 39 That's It's not like the pavement where they say motorcycles use caution Well, these are narrow, but these are Can you step back for a minute and just sort of set the table here yeah, we discussed In an earlier meeting we approved We haven't formalized that which is why we keep carrying it forward and so We want to make sure yes because we approve that people were here. They advocated for it We approved it at the town's expense. So we wanted to make sure we're we're really clear when we say hang on Rick and Alfred have a better proposal Yeah, a different proposal a different proposal right because there was some concern expressed about the speed bumps. Okay, thank you Yeah, so so Rick and maybe and Alfred is this When we when it first came up, we said we I think we all agreed we wanted to take a formal action to endorse speed bumps Or endorse we did that Endorse the group payment as an alternative and you guys wanted to kind of crystallize the proposal Maybe attach a cost and a timeline to it Okay By the way is guideline, which is pretty extensible how you use these and where you use I'm trying to digest that to see how we can use that on this road The reason I mean we take this kind of time to do this is that by putting out the speed bump on a road Where you have vehicles driving at 50 plus miles an hour You hit a speed bump at that speed that is extremely dangerous. This is 25 zone, but it's they're not driving. That's a problem So maybe so maybe part of what we need to do is I just feel like we created an obligation Right, we're trying and so maybe This doesn't throw by going if we Basically a rubber strip How they work It creates the same version of that it vibrates the car. It doesn't throw it out of control You know, you would you would be just like it you've all driven on them. Yeah. Yeah, and they slow down In my experience If you want to slow traffic down you have a group you have a group strip maybe this why and Then you have a second group straight and then you have a set another one because otherwise you're over it You're like, what was that? You're still going 50, but if you keep doing it and maybe you have a sign group pavement right motorcycles beware And I'll end up, but you have a series of them two or three What are you doing? So usually two or three to start and then be five or six and then nine or ten Yeah, that's right three groupings problem. Yeah That's what we're trying to figure out what is appropriate for this kind of So so okay, so going back to now we're we're heading into October. Is there any What would be the time what do you think is the timeline for when we would What she's backing up is is this something Is this something that we are ready to approve tonight, or are you saying you still want to look into? I'm still trying to find out the spacing on me We need to know the spacing to the order to approve the use Okay, yes get it rolling, but when we approve, yes, I'm gonna keep going back to the speed bumps we approved speed bumps and We did that partly because it was fairly immediate and people have an expectation that we've approved that and it's we're gonna Be implementing it and we're not doing that So so so we should if we are not going to because of the speed concerns Then maybe we need or because of the safety concerns that you raised then maybe what we need to do on our next agenda is formally Act to rescind that because of safety concerns for the record keep the minutes and so people know We're rescinding the speed bumps, but We're doing this instead because we feel like this is a better and simultaneous As soon as we receive our speed control our radar signs We're gonna be at what up that we'll be working in conjunction with it So this is a safer version that lets us incrementally go up Well, I guess I'm asking both you guys are you asking for action tonight? We can't we could approve it well Well, I don't want to prove it till we have a sense of when we shouldn't happen and we should rescind and approve, right? Yeah, yeah, right, so I think we just keep this on yeah, I just don't we should rescind But I don't want to just I don't want to approve and then it have Sits out there and we don't have The idea that we put this on the next agenda for action Well, you feel comfortable that you'll be ready We have so I do think we should rescind so that we have a clear record that we're not doing speed bumps and We could do it the same time, but we'll just keep you know putting the group payment on the We just need to keep a spotlight on it because Yeah, there's people who has people look at the agenda, you know online they might not show up But then they might look at the minutes So we just need to keep it in the forefront that yes, we approve the speed bumps We found a better alternative that we feel is safer. It's taking a while to get the information we need To be ready to approve them And that will be in the minutes for improvement when they're actually ready to take set my board and actually do it So you're feeling like instead of doing it When they're not quite ready with the details right for it that all the details be there Yes, and then we approve it and we know it's going to we know it's going to happen Yeah, we didn't really it resend. Yeah, we didn't warn resending. So okay Okay, so moving on bike science proposal. Are we also in holding on that Rick? No, we've got there. I found the MUTCD actually has a standard for the basically Bicycles may use full There's a sign for that and it's it's the R4 dash 11 Awesome, so that we actually that photo we got from one of our neighbors. We can actually do that To me that's dr. Yeah, it's in the MUTCD So how many of them do we want to get well, I guess the question is where would they go? And signs are cheap, right Well, he's put them at the entry to our town to Usually have like the coordinates in place be going to some place and either end of Yeah, share the road There's a specific sign that when we've all seen but bikers may use the entire lane or something It's essentially a bicycle So is your proposal Rick that we put that sign up near the entry to the town sure I would I would probably do it. I mean for sure on the major route like County Road I mean County Road But we've got We can put them on the entrance to the road that goes to the school As long as it's on the town's portion of that road Yeah, yeah That's that would play the bridge would be definitely good one because it's common probably the adamant adamant road all of Martin Road because bicyclists move through there all the time anything around the pond The half of that sees Calis so I mean so we would I think adamant road is a good Let's so let's so now we're just brainstorming I'm going to turn to Alfred and then I'm going to ask if the board wants to approve a number tonight Number of parts a number of signs for purchase without my girl getting two into the weeds of where they go Or do you want to push this off to another? So two things So dirt roads don't there's no determination of one lane or the other So I think that Holds you to a lane road, which is black top labeled by yellow white line Well, it's assumed. There's there's an assumption that drivers know what there's a right and a left lane Otherwise people would be driving both sides so The other question the other concerns I have if you're talking about put these signs on every entrance of our town It's a lot of money Your budget is not going to handle it. Do you know much there? I don't know about the particular sign most signs are $70 for a sign that size depending on what it says and but then you've got the post you've got the anchor You've got the manpower to put it in I just want to go cover the whole town with these signs We can't do part of our own Maybe it's a It's a good start Do you do you do you do a one on each end of But I would also suggest on Well, there's a lot the promise is a lot of coming and going on that on county road a lot of roads in on and off Tell me right and then wait something to do something about Okay, so our part of County Road how many I don't think we can that would be The beginning coming out of a corner Martin Road, then the road that goes to the co-op No, and now there's Fitch road on the right That's very little traffic So what if we start with half it is I don't think we much Where we can online online, right one there one right at the corners, right we're entering the the black top All right, is there a why we make a motion that we purchase to all purchase and install Two of the bike may use full lane signs. Yeah, they are R4-11 R4-11 To Mutcd Lisa the niece made a motion is there a second? Yes Is there any other discussion Agenda for a bit we've had specific requests from citizens asking us to look at these signs Pre-aggressed on the county road and they will not What they don't have to they don't have Even as a considerate you're right There's an expectation the code also that bicyclists will allow us because they're slower traffic that they will move to the side And allow other folks to go by At the end of the day if they don't you still drivers can't be blowing her horn and give them the milk Well, they will If you're gonna do you either blow your horn use your finger can't do both Around for a while My question my concern is if there's an accident we have these signs up Because we're opening up our whole road to a bicycle It's like I worse the drivers are always responsible to give right away to horses and bicycles and pedestrians They hate any of them It's on them. It's on it. Just because it is inside doesn't mean that absolves a driver of the responsibility to have their drivers Are expected to be We're not we're not Let me get and let me let me be clear I think we've said it but we should articulate it clearly we are not creating a Law when you're not creating a truth the truth The law these the standard the ability already exists what we're doing with science is educating But we are educating that that is that is It is permitted and hopefully what it does is further safety rather than a road safety Okay, all right. Thank you So and by the way, the MUTC is an acronym for manual on uniform traffic control devices and among the rationale the listed rationales for this Requirement these signs was to encourage bicyclists. They encourage bicyclists to use the full lane to discourage unsafe with in lane passing it's it's more They're used where your desk to designate roads with lanes that are too narrow to be safely shared side-by-side by a bicycle Another vehicle to indicate that bicyclists may occupy the full lane to discourage unsafe within lane passing encourage motorists to change lanes to pass up bicyclists rather than pushing them off the road a Number of people have been killed and sent to Vermont in the last 20 years when I know Because they've been that's happened to them And also to warn motorists motorists that bicycles may be using a full lane Is there You know in conjunction with Approval to install just to help remind the public of the rights of bicyclists would be Would be a really nice way to communicate Well and citizens can do that too When we when we do when we take an action like this it is It is great if people who are bicyclists You know say hey just the reminder what whatever It's yeah, I'm glad we're doing this Besides a particularly use where there's not much of a shoulder Right. Yeah, and that's kind of so when there's a shoulder the hope is that the cyclist move right county What's got a problem in the shoulders? Yeah, so do we need to vote? Yeah, all in favor, please say I Okay, okay We've made our way through that list of items and we are on Yeah, I do have a real quick question Why did I went down to the bottom of the hill No, it wasn't at the bottom, but it's really at the other side of the intersection. Yeah, it's supposed to get moved up. It's supposed to get moved up above the brow. That's correct. If I could talk, I could explain it. Okay, go ahead. You have a conversation with a total teller. Can you wait, stop. Can you guys please, hang on. Somebody, please articulate clearly. You're talking about bottom hilltop. You're talking about maple. We are. So everybody knows what we're talking about. Speed control sign, electronic speed control sign, wake up call sign, whatever you want to call it. And it was originally placed at the bottom of the pavement stretch, right before you hit the dirt. Well, at that point, at that point, concern is, and share amount of select board members is at that point. All right, so you get to the bottom, and you've got 50 to 025. It's to this indie idea to get them to go 25 in the 25. So shouldn't that be waking people up at the beginning when they hit the 25. Should be above where they're going. Yeah, above the brow. They're going 55. So they have time to. So my understanding that in our last conversation, more depth on this was that was our understanding was that sign was, despite having been installed, it was going to be popped and it was going to be located. The permanent post that he's mounted on uphill. Right, uphill above that. We discussed, I don't ever remember talking to tell me about this at all. I mean, I said to you, I mean, we should put this above the brow. What I did talk about at some point is that we would probably put a mount for the new signs down the hill towards the village. And we could turn off the sign so we could actually measure speeds. Toby told me that you intended and spoke and that the adventure of putting it down below was so that you could track the speed limits because this device has ability to track. Oh, I see. We're going right. He thought it would be better down right at the end of black top where the dirt starts and that would give you a better idea of how fast people are going when they go past that course. I forgot. That's actually not damage. It's actually okay because we're getting the new signs are ordered. The other one just isn't. Oh, okay. Another sign is one time. Another one is going up. And what we'll do, my intent was to actually probably turn that sign off because we're going to use that for the traffic at times. So we can actually use that as a traffic counter. It will be there, but it will be measuring the speed of the vehicles. We'll see if it's effective. In fact, what we need to do. I still want to give you a question. Are we going to put a sign at the top of the hill? Yes. Absolutely. And when we anticipate that to happen. As soon as they're delivered already it was somewhat. And when it's coming, the guys can't do it in frost. But if there's a supply chain issue. We have to wait. She said it could be about two months. But we don't have the pole mounts now. We don't have a sign now. Okay, guys, I want to stop us. This has been fascinating. We have the concrete anchors that was ordered. They were out. Okay. We're running way behind this. We heard the answers. We have all the signs there. We can talk. No, but they have the signs mounted on a foundation. Foundations need to go in before winter. Okay. Let's put this on now. Let's put this on the agenda for next meeting. And we can talk about it. We'll have this specifically. And you hear the concern. Alfred Eric, we're hearing the concern. Let's carry on here. Okay. So we are on a Department of Public Works. Discussion related to a request from solo railing on the ramp to the Kurtz-Pomps Slim area. Who is going to speak to this item? And this, would you like to speak to this? Yeah, we got a request. And as a safety issue at Kurtz-Pomps, there's been a request to install a railing to make it easier to get in and out of Kurtz-Pomps because there's a bank there. And I don't have any idea how much. Linda shoots his cord. Is that what you're going for, Linda? Come on up and join us. We, Linda, talked to me. And just by way of setting the scene here, there are quite a few people who have to use Kurtz-Pomps. We're talking about the public swim area in Kurtz-Pomps. There are quite a few people, some of whom are elderly and others of whom are not elderly, but just to save them in one way or another who would like to be able to swim in the pond and find it difficult and a railing on the steps or even before the steps would make it much easier for them to do that. And that's where this came from. Thank you for letting me explain. So do you want to add to, why don't we let Denise, or Linda's here and then you can go on. I have always been an avid swimmer at Kurtz-Pomps until this year and I had an injury on my knee and I could not get into Kurtz-Pomps. And so it was the first year that I didn't, so I went to number 10 pond, which was still hard to get into, but it was still a little bit easier. I tried once at the end of the season with David and it was just too scary. And then that's when I started talking to other people who, whether they have a child of a disability or whether they were older folks like me, they just, it's hard to get in those steps. If you're talking, there's two different areas that the railing could go. Now this is the towns and the citizens of the town is sometimes really important to go into the pond. And so if you're thinking of the steps I actually had my contractor was putting my own railing in my house now, so I will, so I can go up by some steps. He went and he looked at Kurtz with me. We need an estimate from him. I didn't get it yet. But I also, yeah. What he's doing is free of his... Right, but I mean if he's the contractor and... He's the contractor for my house. What I was going to finish saying is maybe he'd be somebody that the town could hire to install the railings because he has experience, but we need a price, we need a quote on how much the railings cost, how much it's gonna cost. There's gonna be Denise because that's another, I mean it could be on the stone steps. Because what happens with the stone steps you go down, but when you come up you're just out there and there's nothing to hang on to. And for kids too it would be helpful. Yeah, it sounds like it. And the other thing if you go around the grassy area, so if you go to the left there are two entrances on the grassy area. And we looked at the one that goes directly into the pond that doesn't have the log. And that you could also put railing from the land and it goes right into the water. And then he got even a little bit more carried away saying then you could put a little bit of a wrap in the water so we're just... We know we don't want to do that. Well I think we have a lot of time to get an estimate. And so is this going to be part of the monies from the federal government? Is that what it would be? Not necessarily. I mean we'd have to see how much... I think we have to see what the estimate is. What's it going to cost by them and the design and the installation and then we can talk about where the money is going to come from. So we need that information first. Linda, do you want to take the lead of a project creator in looking... You have somebody who you've already talked to who could help think about those things and I'm just floating that possibility. The other thing I want to mention that hasn't been said is if he says this looks like a... I'm making up numbers but if it's... If it's going to be over $5,000 it's going to be a $1 job. Okay, I don't know. My ramp is 20 feet long and it's going to be under 2,000. For the railing. He's saying no for the whole job. Railing and ramp. What Sharon is getting at is we have a purchasing policy and so if anything is over $5,000 we have to go out a bit. It's not going to be over. We're just talking about an eight foot railing. Each place it could be just eight feet. Do you want to be a project lead and come back to us and... I'm not very savvy. I'm a good advocate but I'm not very savvy. Do you want to... I could try with this contractor but if I have problems I may come back. He can hand draw a sketch. What is planned at the end of railing and then you have to terminate in the water so you can have that kind of stuff. I can help you. You said you talked to other people which means that there's other... Okay, he is one who wants this. Right. I have a whole list of people. Right. Linda had a great idea and so folks say that's a great idea. I'm going to... That is... I'm going to pencil this as a February follow-up conversation. We can get it ready for spring. Next season. Linda, I'm going to put your name on it unless you come back and say I advocated and recruited somebody else who is going to take a lead, work with a contractor, help with the contractor. I can be on their point. I had an easy that he went to. I mean, it has to be powdered. It's not... I barely know what that means. Powdered? Yeah. It's a thing that they melted up in. Just to make it so it's not slippery. Yeah, right. So where this stands is what we will lead is a sketch. A rough sketch. A formal proposal. A price. And then we can take it up. Denise will work with you and if you have trouble getting it Denise can help you and then we'll bring this before us and I think you're hearing a lot of support for it. Yeah. Project Description. Sketch. That's it. Yeah, that's a proposal. Then it's something we can approve and then we'll know is it something to approve and there's somebody positioned that we can hire to do it or as it turns out is it something that we have to... We have someone else to do the job but at least there's an estimate to work with. Right. And then we can always put it and then if we have to... If he says no. If we can put it... if it crosses the threshold under our purchasing policy then we'll know that we have to prohibit. So, great idea. Thanks, Linda. Yeah. Jordan, you have a... Good point. It's still a good idea. We can maybe note in the minutes to make sure that it complies with state permitting. You got that. Okay. So, we had a work plan item here and I think that was just generally to talk to Eric. Yeah. Anything you want to add? Do you want to add anything? Add anything to work plan? DPW work plan? Not right now. Okay. And then also we met ahead. We just need to schedule a meeting. Schedule a meeting with the road crew. We just want to schedule a meeting with the road crew at some point. And that's a bunch of them. That's right. That's a follow-up. Yeah. So, I think we should wait and get a recommendation from Eric as to what we're writing about. So, just to say we'll be scheduling a meeting with the road crew. And then we'll show support in the time of transition. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, then I raised this. Can you bring me to talk at all about we already talked about town plans. Right. Yeah. And then we're so we're on to the console discussion. So, amidst all of the important things going on in town, we raise this briefly at our last meeting, our console position was open last time, is that there are different levels of constable nests, constabulary authorities. Yeah, there's level one, two, and three. Right. And so, we've actually had, we learned a level two constabulary authority, I believe. So, Wilson had been formally trained at the Vermont Police Academy, that are not necessary or not required for him to have, pursuant to that training, also certain obligations that flow from that level two training. And so, as a result of all of the learning that we did when we were onboarding our previous constable, we realized that we want to actually be thoughtful in asking ourselves, do we want a level one or a level two? Level three is like well beyond anything that any... So, the question for us really is a level two or a level three. And level two is the one that requires a lot of, you know, kind of the process that we worked our way, mostly worked our way through to ensure that our console has learning and authorization from us to support to some extent. But we also learned that a level one is entirely, is all that's required under state law and that would be an official who does a constable who does not go through the Vermont Police Academy training and instead is authorized for its specific much more narrowly defined actions as scoped by the select board. And I think if I recall the statutory three on those things, things like enforcing our animal control ordinance, supporting that, and removing people, disorderly people from town. Just reminded on some town meetings or select board or other meetings. And we had a lot of feedback at that meeting we had in July. Was it July? We had a lot of feedback so that got us to thinking more about what do we really want and what I learned and didn't know was that there are these different levels and you don't have to have somebody who is trained to carry a gun and those kinds of things. So we want to be really thoughtful about what level we want our constable to be. I think the town's people are used to it being a more laid back, you know, yeah, you know, I'll go check out the house with the health officer like Wilson did. But we also had a discussion. Yeah, to have, you know, the health officer sometimes needs the constable to go, the constable can serve papers if asked to by the sheriff or the court. The level one. Yeah, yeah. So that's I think what the town has been used to. So that's what we need to be thoughtful about. Can I just make sure that I I think what you're saying is, so we just test that we're on the same page, that our Wilson, and I say Wilson, not our previous, Travis was our most previous, but Wilson was actually trained as a level two at a point when that was fairly new, that option was a new one as well as the things we learned. But as a day-to-day matter the activity that he was undertaking was much more in the level one. He didn't step into level two. No, he didn't step, he didn't do level two duties. You were surprised, in fact, when we learned. Right, we were surprised when we found out that Wilson, in fact, was trained for level two. Okay, so John, you were going to build on this? I think a very brief history is in order here. The legislature did this area of law because previous to the changes Constable had all the authorities of a show. They were the town show. They, and I noticed, because I used to be one in Woodbury, if someone called up, it was a domestic issue, the way the statute read then and in Woodbury at the time they were elected, I don't know if they are any longer, but at the time they're elected, if you're elected Constable, you're sworn in, you are obligated to provide all the services and meet all the expectations and statute. For instance, if there's a domestic abuse situation you get a call like I did. There's an expectation you're going to go there. And if you do not, just like if a state cop or sheriff doesn't go and something happens, God forbid, serious, there's liability that actually goes to the individual and not necessarily to the town. So I resigned in the Constable position because of that very issue of there was a domestic and the state trooper who was called did not show up and this guy, two weeks later there was a fire at this trailer and he was hauling cases of guns in ammunition out and three months later he shot an old lady. So scared the heck out of me and I reviewed the law and I talked to the town attorney at the time and said, yeah, you're reading the law right, you're absolutely personally liable and I talked to the select board at the time and I produced the Larry Rossi and I forget who else, Jim Cahagan. And I said, am I covered? And you guys made sure they were like, whoa, we didn't respect that. So I resigned right there. So I think with that in mind the state police did not show up because their protocol was for domestics I learned are the most are the most dangerous situation a police officer finds himself in and protocol for the state troopers at that time and likely still is that there's a domestic call they do not show up unless there's two officers that can respond they did not two officers respond so I just left there, I got the woman out of there, but so anyway they hadn't changed the law so that no longer is a constable that's elected or appointed obligated to meet those higher levels they tiered them and in fact the level one is what you enter into it by default that's pretty minimal and I do not know what the citizen I'm going to push back a little bit Denise on your sense of what folks here are used to I don't think they know I think when a constable is called they get all sorts of calls people don't know who to call we had a guy running around naked and that's one thing about harassing people and there was a lot of back and forth and we had people here pretty upset and yelling at us as blackboard members remember I remember I believe Wilson was involved as a level 2 and there was a lot of level 2 stuff that he did maybe I don't remember that so whether he was before the law chain I think it was post the law chain and he was a level 2 or maybe he went level 2 after that I don't know but I know he was involved with this character so I just want to say I don't necessarily agree with the contention that there's an expectation that the constable is just going to chase dogs I didn't mean to give that but I don't know what his sense is and I think maybe we have a number of public meetings and forums and figure out what the folks want we have a problem with staffing everything not only road crew the sheriff can't get people so we are seeing less and less service in the sheriff's department we could ask for 100 hours a week they limit, they only have a certain number of people and they allocate the hours across the entire county so we get this little tiny they'll show up, I don't know what it is 4 days a year and that's our share it doesn't matter how much money we make I don't know if it's 4 days a year I'm sure that we're not saying that that's what I said I don't know what it is but we get our allocation that's only it doesn't have to do with how much money we make so John are you so do I understand that we have to decide at some point what level we want John saying we should make there should be public discussion we should have a meeting there might be more and it wasn't if I think we invite Wilson and ask him why he thought I need for a level 2 maybe he was just well I'm seeing a reduction in my roles and responsibilities so in order to maintain what I'm accustomed to we could probably get somebody from the LCT to come and talk about the roles and responsibility of the different levels of the constable because there is quite an insurance issue I'm sorry I'm interrupting there is an insurance issue if you go to a certain level so this is something that we should I mean John's clearly got opinions on this this is other people might I actually have a suggestion what's your suggestion we have no constable and we haven't advertised or recruited because we needed to have this conversation my suggestion is that we decide not tonight but that is relative relative experience we decide on a level 1 for now so that at least we can recruit and be looking for somebody to be some kind of constable and that would give us space to say also acknowledge we need to have a larger conversation about whether we want to go to level 2 but level 2 encompasses level 1 so I don't see a harm in starting with a level 1 so that we have something and we're not in a whole new pattern the only problem I see with that is you might get somebody who needs to be level 1 we get them all in and then the board decides to do something different and that person doesn't want that responsibility but if we decide on a level 2 at the front they're not going to apply for it anyway so what if we were to follow their idea what if we were to agree tonight what if we were to agree that we're going to advertise for a level 1 we could put in the ad if we were to have higher qualifications we're welcome to submit but higher qualifications is so we don't eliminate I get your idea but I don't know that if sure you can submit but if you are a level 2 person and we have authorized only a level 1 that was some of the issue I guess your authority would be limited to level 1 however you would be a person who if the town decides you want a level 2 you could step into level 2 so I'm just thinking in today's world where it's so hard to get people we should just advertise we should be advertising for something but we want to be clear where we are right now that's the kind of thing we can do in an interview well right but when we advertise we're not going to say we're advertising for level 1 so why doesn't everybody think about it and we'll do it on the agenda for next time and take action well we have to know what we're going to take action on level 1 if we're going to take action on a level 1 would you say take action on the level of constable authorize the you can just say authorize advertising for a level 1 constable if we really want to have a town you can just say on the agenda you can just say authorizing on a constable it doesn't even have to say what level because that can be part of the discussion especially people to show up alright so what's today today is the 26th so we want to maybe I don't know if we're going to have time to put it on on the 17th we got a lot stop well if we wanted to authorize a level 1 having had this discussion we could simply put it on a constable we could I think that the discussion is probably not done okay because I think we should have and that's what I kept asking before what are the what do you have to have to be 1, 2 or 3 and I could never get and maybe we have it now but that was what I was constantly after is what is that what does it mean what does it mean if we level 2 it would be good to have that into the record exactly what that means beyond listening to statute or in BLCT guidance yeah I think that's what we need to revisit so revisit the BLCT guidance on that right on all different levels we can do that I would be surprised if well I guess I'll reserve my judgment maybe people will show up and say maybe we'll see we'll see and Denise do you have a personal update personal update for us no okay okay so round right and round robin anything that we haven't talked about that people wanted to talk about I just want to mention and I'm speaking now as a member of the Curtis Pond Association having recused myself I just want to say sometime in the not terribly distant future we will be Denise as our as the appointed Denise and John as the appointed people Liaison and the CPA will be asking the Board to agenda an item for an update that's all just it's there do you feel like it's a 10 17 I would say 10 20 yeah not 10 not 10 17 okay okay so we do have a very full agenda for the next meeting and we may not have the background on the calisthenic bridge standards done so that may end up coming I may not I'm going to work really hard to get something done at least get a draft I already had console level statutory for next time we wanted to talk about use of ARPA funds for traffic calming road design study is that going to be right for next meeting okay so I'm going to put that off to 24th and a traffic control ordinance update I'm guessing is also not going to be ready for next time probably not I would think that we would be ready with the town hall we'll be ready we'll be ready for that and I can look at the committee appointments to see if there are any so the Tyler Clark with that one and we had and then we're going to have Carmichael maybe on the 17th do we Denise if we have minor changes to the town hall use policy do we need to what do we do with those take them back to that committee we need to take it back to that committee but I think they'll be minor enough so they'll just I think so that's it I think we are ready to adjourn is there a motion? say aye thank you for attending everybody