 Green Mountain Support Services to empower neighbors with disabilities to be home in the community. Major support also includes Washington County Mental Health where hope and support come together. Welcome to this edition of Abledon on Error, the one and only program that focuses on the needs, concerns, and achievements of the different label. I'm your host Lauren Seiler, my wife Arlene could not be here today. With us to discuss a very important issue of Team 2 is Washington County Mental Health Christian Chandler and Tony Fakus, the chief of police of Montpellier Police Department. But before we get to them we would just like to say thank you to our sponsors Washington County Mental Health and Green Mountain Support Services. Welcome to Abledon on Error. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Team 2 is in the missions and goals of Team 2. Sure. Team 2 is a training program for, it's run statewide for, started off for first responders for police, law enforcement, and mental health crisis workers. And it has sort of evolved in the last five years that it's been in existence to a training for lots of different first responders. It's a one day training in teaching people how to respond collaboratively to mental health crises. When we say respond collaboratively, give us an example of what that means. So that means that what we hope would happen is if an officer got a call out and knew that there was some type of mental health component to that call. And that officer felt like they could probably use some help from somebody with expertise in mental health that they would then reach out to their local mental health agency and those folks should be mobile and able to respond with the officer to the scene. Or if they can't respond to the scene to at least provide some kind of assistance. That's how it started as, and that's why it's called Team 2, is it initially started as just law enforcement officers and mental health crisis clinicians training together in this one day training. Chief, when we talk about breaking barriers, because with this show today we want to kind of break barriers and what has been your experience with Team 2 and how did you come to be part of it? Well, it was then Commissioner Mary Moulin's idea to come up with this Team 2 type program. And I got to say it was a really interesting journey for me at the time being a career Montpelier police officer and I started working in the city since 1985. We always had Washington County mental health, they were always just a seamless partner to us. We were very closely with them. So when I got involved in the law enforcement side of being part of this Team 2 collaboration, building it out, I realized how much I've taken certain relationships for granted in terms of Washington County mental health. When I started going around, when we started doing it, training the trainers, other parts of the state of Vermont, that type of relationship, that resource wasn't always available to a trooper or a deputy sheriff or a police officer in a variety of areas. And so that was very sobering to me that what happens in these communities when they don't have that mobile clinician that can come out and work with somebody that is in crisis or sometimes it's just that human checkup. How you doing? It's so vital. And I got to say, I want to just say that the chief was somebody who Mary Moulton identified really early on as what she called a champion, meaning that he got it, he got the police when they respond to people in a mental health crisis that they've got to take a different tactic. They've got to take a different tone in a different stance. And Chief Fecos understood that. And so he was part of the original team two steering committee that helped form the curriculum along with lots of other folks, but he was really instrumental to that. No, we say mental health, but I mean, okay, let's do a what if here. Does team two or can team two help someone with who is mentally and physically challenged if the case presents itself? Sure. And the way the training works is now we go to five different regions around the state and we invite as attendees people from mental health agencies who work in both mental health crisis response and in intellectual disability response. And sometimes there are other folks who might be working with people with a physical disability who might also attend the training. But that's not our primary focus. It's definitely people in either a mental health crisis or an intellectual disability crisis. Describe, without mentioning names, a mental health crisis. How would you guys really go into a situation? You want to take it? Yeah. If you don't mind. Yeah. All too often those calls will come right to the police department or police agency to respond because somebody's behavior is very much out of the norm where they might be dangerous to themselves or others. Hurting somebody else. Or potentially, you know. And so the way team two works, but we also, we're going to put a call into Washington County Mental Health, which is our designated agency in Montpelier. And the police are really there just first and foremost to establish a safety. And as soon as practical, the whole goal of team two is, okay, police are there. And maybe it's not as bad as, you know, a caller, you know, said it was, or the person is already starting to calm down. The sooner that we can just, you know, remove ourselves, the police from that call and introduce, you know, the clinician to really help provide that level of support and even treatment if need be. That's really then their role. And we just are there to facilitate whatever may need to happen, whether it could be a transport to the hospital, or maybe we're not needed at all at that point. As opposed to just law enforcement going to the scene. What do we have here? Yeah. So ultimately we want to make sure that if the conduct that the person is presenting, ultimately what do they need? Why are they doing that? And how do we best help them? Just arresting somebody because it's disorderly conduct, for example, is that really going to get us the best outcome, the right outcome? Well, putting the cops on somebody might, probably, might scare them even more. Exactly. We don't want to escalate it. But again, we have to do what we have to do to make sure the scene is safe. But ideally, again, as soon as we are no longer that safety piece, you know, that concern is no longer there, it's safe. We have that clinician right there to have that, you know, to really start supporting that person. So what's the difference between the clinician or a clinician that goes into a scene and the screener? Or is it different? Is the screener involved? I'm using an interchange. Yeah, interchangeable. Yeah, we use that interchangeably. There are technically differences, but for our purposes today is somebody from the local mental health agency, who would be, you could call them a screener, you could call them a clinician, you could call them a crisis worker, you know. There are a few police agencies around the state, including a couple barracks of the Vermont State Police that have what they are calling an embedded worker. And that's somebody who is employed by the mental health agency, but they actually sit with the local police. And I believe Montpelier and Barry is starting out. We are right now working with Washington Mental Health, Barry City Police, Montpelier Police. Are you guys working together? Well, we're trying to establish funding right now with legislative support for an embedded mental health worker for the two departments that we would share. Because that model really works really well. And that model's proven to work in large jurisdictions and other parts of the country as well. That part's not unique to Vermont. The challenge is, you know, Ken and how will Vermont fund it? And that's really where we're at right now. Team two is just Vermont. But what you're trying to do is bring it nationally or bring it? Well, team two is, it's really unique to Vermont. And it is a great collaboration between the Department of Mental Health and the Department of Public Safety. So the Vermont State Police basically and the Department of Mental Health have a, it's a year-to-year grant funded position or program. We have, this fall we've gone all over the country letting other people know about this model. We've been invited to speak at various conferences. And in fact, the Chief and I and Mary Malton went to the International Association of Chiefs of Police Conference in Chicago in October to present what we're doing here in Vermont. And we were the only, the only state where we're doing this type of training where we bring those folks together for one day so that they can all learn each other's language, understand each other's limitations, and build those relationships that are really necessary that Tony's talked about for when you're in a crisis, you want to already have that relationship established rather than trying to figure out who everybody is. So we've been recognized internationally, really, for this model that we've put on here in Vermont for the last five years. And it's just, there's been a great response from law enforcement. Vermont State Police have identified Team 2 as a priority to put all their troopers through the training. So they're doing that. Now before Team 2, there was nothing else in its place. Well, the mandatory training that all law enforcement officers get in Vermont is what, it's an eight-hour training. It's mandated by statute. And that's for, it's called interacting with persons in a mental health crisis. Or some people refer to it as Act 80 training. And I teach that at the police academy along with a law enforcement officer and a clinician. And that's, every single officer in the state who wants to be certified has to go through that. So that is what is required. And that is in what we call, it's like a 100-level course. It's like basic mental health 101. And then Team 2 would be like a 200-level course. It's sort of like first aid for mental health? Mental health first aid is a different, that's a different program that focuses on different things other than that Act 80 doesn't focus on. And then the other training that is available is crisis intervention training or CIT. That's a 40-hour training. It's a police agency in Vermont that does that. And that's Hartford Police Department. That takes five days in a row, which is what a lot of smaller agencies really can't afford to send an officer to a training for an entire week. And that's why Team 2 kind of fits nicely for a rural state and rural jurisdictions, because it's a lot easier to send an officer to a one-day training as opposed to a five-day training. Talk about some of these presentations and the real importance behind having this important training. Well, as Kristen mentioned, it's so much about relationships. So it's a table-top, scenario-based training model. So it puts, again, the screen or the clinician, they're talking about what they would do, what's their responsibility, their role at this phase of this situation. And then police will talk about what their response would look like. And it's a chance to really start understanding how each see their responsibilities, but then they start working together, because when you're at a scene in somebody's own crisis, sometimes it can be very volatile, very dangerous. Yelling, screaming, even worse than that? Even worse than that. There could be weapons involved. And that's not the first time you want to meet that, your partner, if you will, from that designated agency. And one of my roles, back when I was a sergeant, was being a crisis negotiator in the department. We now have three operational crisis hostage negotiators. Even with having a trained negotiator, holding at the level of training to have a training, it's still important to have, even when I negotiate, it's important for me to have that screener from Washington County Mental Health backing me up, or maybe they can do a better job than I'm doing when in a certain situation. Or maybe they can get information that would be helpful for the police to use in order to try to negotiate with someone. That's why that collaboration is so key. And as the Chief mentioned, the training itself, it's a scenario-based training. We work through, in that one day, they get three different scenarios to work through in small groups. So you have a mix of people. Dispatchers are also invited to training and attend. So we've got law enforcement, mental health folks. You've got dispatchers. Sometimes we've got EMTs coming as well. And sometimes a disability, or the folks from the DS side of things might also be in the conversation. And it's just a great way, as the Chief said, for them to learn from each other about, okay, this is what I've got to do. And what we really focus on in that conversation is the legal, the clinical, and the safety aspects of each of those scenarios. So everybody's bringing something to the table. And during the day, before they do any scenarios, they first hear, for about an hour and a half, they get from me a legal overview of the mental health laws, any updates on what's going on. When you say legal, I'm sorry, when you say legal overview, explain what that means. Well, I was an assistant attorney general with the Department of Mental Health for eight years. And prior to that I was a prosecutor. And so I work a lot in the criminal system. But also I did, I tried cases here in Vermont for involuntary commitment. We talk a lot about that process, about we spend a lot of time on mental health warrants. And who they apply to and who they don't apply to. And what the limitations of the law are. And so the group gets an overview of any changes in the law. Anything that they, I feel like they should know about. But we usually spend a lot of time talking about mental health warrants because it continues to be a little bit of a mystery for lots of people. So is it hard? I mean, you can also answer this as well. So is it hard to get, because I understand the process of getting a warrant. But is it harder to get a mental health warrant? Why or why not? I wouldn't say it's harder. But it's the, in Vermont the law says that there's only two people who can write one. And that's either a qualified mental health professional or a law enforcement officer. And so those are the people who are in the room. So we want to talk about who. So what's it says, you must do something, you know. Can they override or help override the situation? They can't. The law says the person has to meet the legal standard, which is they've got to be a person in need of treatment. So first of all, they have to have a major mental illness. And then secondly, as a result of that illness, they are a danger to themselves or others. And that can look a lot of different ways. And that's something that where that mental health person and the officer can exchange information. The mental health folks may know about a pattern of things that have happened in the past, or they may know about that they're actually currently in treatment and this is just a little slip. You know, they're just this great exchange of information if they're working together. And so, and then there's no, they can also decide which one of us is going to write the warrant and how this is going to go if it comes to needing to write a warrant. And that's usually the very last thing they want to do. So they'll go to a treatment program, not a jail or... Correct. They'll go to a hospital. Yeah. Yeah. They'll go into a hospital. Because we want to... We want to get them some help. Yeah. And the mental health warrant is, that's what it's for, is to get somebody to a doctor who doesn't want to go. It's really, it's a way to take them there against their will involuntarily, but a judge has weighed in and said, you know, this is what needs to happen in order to keep this person safe. Safe. And healthy. Without hurting someone else. Or themselves. Or themselves. Yeah. And that's, you know, and that's a really important piece which you kind of talked about is so much of why we have Team 2 do all the things that we're doing is that we're really trying to, again, provide the most appropriate outcome and whatever, you know, possible and the right thing to do is we're trying to keep people out of the criminal system and get them, again, to a treatment or anything. And that even includes a philosophy, even with addiction as we're dealing with that as well. And many times too, those are two co-occurring problems. And ultimately, that's how, you know, we're all trying to best serve our monitors is that getting them the help that they need and not just putting them in, you know, sometimes certain conduct is criminal and it needs to be dealt with that way. But generally speaking... Explain what do you mean by... Well, if you commit a violent crime, we still have to deal with that. Yeah. But... But it doesn't prohibit us from also trying to get you some help at the same time. You can be in both systems at once, if need be. But our go-to is not just to get them in front of a judge because of a criminal citation for, you know, a misdemeanor offense or something like that. Now, I mean, before the mental health warrant, let's say if you have team two at a situation and then the person says, okay, I need some help, do you take them to a hospital first or can the person sign their own paperwork without other people? No paperwork really needed. If they say they want to go voluntarily. Yes. The only issue then is how are we going to get you there? You're either going to get a ride with your family or can you get yourself there? Are you safe enough to get yourself there or can we help you somehow and give you a ride? Yeah. So there's not really paperwork involved if somebody wants to go voluntarily until they actually get to the hospital. Yeah. Or is it a hospital or is it a psychiatric facility or both? Well, it's going to depend on the situation, what their needs are. Oh, okay. But that's something that that clinician or the screener is going to help determine is what is the least restrictive method available to actually help this person and keep them safe. Okay. Now you mentioned legal. Can you go through the other, some of the other parts of this? Parts of the curriculum? Yes. Sure. So besides the legal overview, we do the three scenarios. We also have a piece, show a short film on working with individuals on the autism spectrum, just because those calls have really increased in the last couple of years. We have a panel presentation that's a really key part of the day where somebody with lived experience comes in and we also have a law enforcement officer and a mental health clinician that sit on a panel and they just tell another, they talk about something that either worked really well in the past for them or something that didn't work well. And there's usually really very positive response to getting to hear from somebody with lived experience who is now in a position where they're well enough that they can actually reflect on and give some great advice to law enforcement officers really about, you know, this really worked well for me. You know, just be aware that if you're yelling a lot of commands at me at once, it's going to be hard or whatever it might have been, their experience, it's just helpful to hear from somebody who's actually been through it. And then we do a resources piece. So it's another part of going around the state is there are different resources available in different parts of the state. So we talk about what do you use in this part of the state? So let's say we're down in the Southwest region. So that's Bennington County, Rutland County, and we actually include Addison County in that. But we might say, you know, what do you do here if somebody needs a ride or they need a shelter, they're homeless, or if they need some kind of substance abuse addiction treatment, like what do you have in this area? What do you use? What's available 24-7 and what isn't? And it's different everywhere. So that's why we really encourage people to attend in their region where they work. People can't always do that, but it's really a much richer conversation when they're, you know, attending a training in their own region. And they're also then working with people at the training who they might then see out in the field in the future. Now, what if, let's just say, you go into a situation in this, you know, lots of situations. You know, you said that some work and some don't, or vice versa. What happens if you go into a situation and it doesn't work, do you, I mean, obviously you're trying to talk the person down or you're trying to speak to them in a manner that they can understand. How long do some of those situations can they last hours? So like a negotiator or... Sometimes they absolutely can last hours. And, you know, and usually if it's something that's lasting hours, there's usually a dangerous, dangerous moment to that. And in some cases, we're already involving a psychiatrist, you know, so again, working to think about the mental health warrant piece, but also what's the safety planning around how we're eventually going to make sure that this has a, you know, the best outcome that we can help facilitate. But they're all, each one's a little different, but certainly even at the, that baseline training that we talk about, you know, for the police training, it's just trying to slow things down. Having one person, you know, just trying to communicate. And sometimes, whoever has that rapport, I mean, we've had situations where we have a trained negotiator on scene, we've got mental health screener standing outside of a scene that's very dangerous, but we've got another officer that has a rapport with this person and is talking. Just because it's a negotiator on scene, we'll keep that other person, you know, in play, if you will, that other officer. Or it could be a screener, you know, whatever's working. You know, we don't want to upset that rhythm, and that's really important. So, but each case is, you know, we only have so many tools, if you will, and options. And so much resources, like you said. Yeah, and that's why we also, in those scenarios that we, the three scenarios, every year they're different, but we try to incorporate many different types of issues in those scenarios that somebody might see. So, we usually have a scenario that involves a child or a kid. We try to have a scenario that involves somebody with a developmental disability or an intellectual disability. Just so, again, people can learn, like what's different about them? Because children, if it involves kids, would seem to, it's a different thing, right? Well, the law is the same as far as voluntarily committing children, but it might involve a different team. Depending on what part of the state you're in, some mental health agencies have different people who would respond if there was a child in crisis. It also involves completely different resources, and as you might know... But how is the law the same with a child? It's the same exact law regarding involuntary commitment. They still have to be a person in need of treatment before they can be committed against their will. And regardless of what their parents might want. And a lot of people don't know that. But, meanwhile, we only have one hospital in the state where kids can go if they need that level of care. And that's the Brownborough Retreat. So, scenarios also usually include, try to include somebody who might be a veteran or somebody who's elderly. Lots of different things, and they're very purposefully written so that to bring out these issues so that people will talk about them. You know, we try to talk about things that are hard. And you get different responses depending on people's either their level of experience or maybe it might even be based on what they're used to have happening in their particular region of the state. For example, let's say persons elderly. Alzheimer's. Team two is called in. Because, for example, we've had family members ourselves that with Alzheimer's, they throw things, they yell, they scream, and you try to bring that situation down. How would you deal or how would team two deal with a situation in that case? You know, whether it's... Yeah, throwing things. One is, can we at least isolate the person? In other words, get other people out of harm's way. It might be the first approach. And, you know, and then from there, just trying to establish that human rapport as best we can. Yeah. Finding out why the person... You know, and sometimes they can't articulate why they're doing what they're doing. And again, each well's cases are different. Each one gets hurt. That's the big thing. Yeah, and sometimes it can be simple as if there's other members of the family that could be in that harm's way or other roommates. Just like, hey, have them get out of that environment so at least we know that they're safe. And now we're just dealing with the one person that is acting the way they are. And so... And you picked a situation to fall neatly into the law, either, because... Alzheimer's is not considered a major mental illness. I apologize about that. No, it's a good point to bring up because it can be really frustrating for family members who don't know that, like, I just want you to, you know, this guy needs to be in the hospitals but we can't just write commitment papers on a person. If all they're presenting with is Alzheimer's. People on the autism spectrum also don't fall necessarily into that law. People with a traumatic brain injury. People with dementia. So there's a few folks that we're going to have to be pretty creative to figure out how to best help them and to keep the community safe. And that's a really important piece too with these hard cases that don't fit squarely in a box. We still get the calls from the police. The dispatchers are still on the phone or, you know, whomevers. Whoever's making that call. And we still have to show up and do what we can to make sure that everybody's going to be okay. At the end of the day, that's why we do what we do. Making sure people are okay. And that's what's so hard because sometimes the officers, jeez, what can we do? Who do we call? As we're working through that. And sometimes with dementia patients and Alzheimer's can be absolutely frightening to people that especially when someone's throwing things up there. Yeah, they're agitated. Yeah, agitated. And it's really, really hard too when it's like a family member that's not even, you know, fully aware of maybe what their actions are. Number and where people can turn to for Team 2? Well, Team 2 has the grant is administered by the Vermont Care Partners. Their website has all kinds of information about it. We have a Facebook page where, but it's the trainings themselves are not open to the public. They're really limited to an audience that's invited. Yeah. So there's that. But if people want more information there, there's a general Team 2 email which is team2vermontatgmail.com I welcome questions. Well, anything else you want to say about Team 2 before we end? No, I just... Future goals? The good thing is it's an ongoing goal. It's to keep making sure that as many, if not, all police officers are trained. The other real big challenge, making sure we have capacity statewide with the designated agencies, with the screeners and the clinicians out there throughout Vermont so they can respond with law enforcement or with police when they need to. Now with Team 2, does it all have to do... because you mentioned that it was a grant funded program. So does it all have to do with money per se? You mean whether it continues? Yes. And when I say grant funded, I mean that it's funded by the Department of Mental Health and the Department of Public Safety jointly. It's a relatively low cost program given... so if you get a lot of bang for your buck, I think is the way I like to think about it because it really doesn't cost a lot to put it on. And the value that we've found in being able to reach this group of people and the... I just can't say enough about the collaborative nature of the training itself. You know, it's very purposefully laid out and I have a great group of instructors from around the state in each of those regions that... so people are getting trained by their peers by law enforcement officers. I have a couple of dispatchers who are trainers and a lot of mental health crisis clinicians who are trainers. And they got trained back in 2013 as the chief mentioned during the train the trainers sessions that we did around the state. So we have a good core group of about 35 or so instructors for each of those five regions. Well, we would like to thank you for joining us again. Thank you for having us. Again, we would like to thank our sponsors Washington County Mental Health and Green Mountain Support Services for sponsoring us on Able that on Air. This puts an end to this decision on Able that on Air. I'm Loren Seiler again. Arlene could not be here today. Thank you for joining us. See you next time on the next edition of Able that on Air. I'm Loren Seiler. See you next time. Major support for Able that on Air. Green Mountain Support Services to empower neighbors with disabilities to be home in the community. Major support also includes Washington County Mental Health where hope and support come together.