 We have a very interesting speaker with us right now. We have Ricardo Avella with his talk, don't mix up our stuff. So without much delay, go ahead, Ricardo. The stage is all yours. So hi, everyone. As a disclaimer, this was supposed to be a workshop. Unfortunately, we cannot do it that way online, but I will do my best. So if you stay with me, hopefully we are going to be able to learn a little bit about clean language. So let me start this way. Every corporation, every commercial company, and every high-tech organization want to see more innovation. However, between 85% and 95% of the efforts that we see are just like me too, innovation. So we imitate, we imitate competitors, we imitate features, we imitate design, we imitate brand elements. And we spend a lot of time and effort and money trying to improve what already exists. And that's why most of the time we are just followers. We are behind the curve. And of course, we are late for the market. So when all of the products are the same, are identical, the only way to differentiate is on price or offering additional services. When we are unable to come up with new ideas, we innovate by changing colors or by introducing new sizes. So 90, 95, probably 98% of those companies or entrepreneurs never, never approach us or you or me to find out what we really needed or wanted. So let's talk a little bit about research. So what are effective ways to learn about people? There are basically two, like surveys and interviewing. So have you ever filled out customer service questionnaires or answer research surveys or being a part of a focus group? This is a small list of very common questions used in real user market or user research. And the questions are like, for example, Ricardo, if you have the money and no constraints, would you buy this product right now? Or from one to five, would you recommend this product to your friends? Now, those are very, very common questions. But here is the problem. Those questions are simply trying to validate what we already have in mind as a solution. With those questions, we are not trying to get to know a person or his emotions or her fears or feelings or their challenges. So let me give you an example. Like 90% of the time, this is what happens. We already have an idea for something that we want to build, like a new product or a new service. And we want to do it the right way. So we get out of the building, talk to some users, talk to some people, and try to get customer feedback. What we hear from people is something like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe if you make some adjustments here, maybe you modify this here or this there. And if you build the product, I might buy it. And maybe I will recommend it to my friends. That's what we hear. But what they are really saying is, well, I don't really like your product. I don't know what I want, but I know that it's not that. And whatever we heard, we just hear it through the lens of the product we actually want to build. So we go back to the office and decide to rely on our experience and our expertise and go with our guts. We build the product and release anyway. It doesn't sell. And we get a little surprised because we actually did our homework, getting out of the building, and got good customer feedback. So basically, there is a gap, a huge gap between what people are really saying and what we are hearing. And the question is, how can we close that gap? How can we understand another person's thoughts and feelings and motivations? How can we understand their needs and the choices that they make? How can we make a person open up and share their truths? And, well, a good effective option is clean language. So let me go through two concepts first. This is the first one. We don't have sticky notes, but maybe we can use the chat. So please type the first word or the first two words that come to your mind when you hear the words volcano exploding. They can be adjectives or emotions or anything. So first word or two words that come to your mind when you hear the word volcano exploding. So 15 seconds. Perfect. I can see run, danger, fair, perfect. Let's keep going. So what is the first word that comes to your mind when you hear the words almost die? Perfect. So let's keep it there for now. And let me tell you a story. I love amusement parks. And the last time that I went to one, we have a blast. It was tons of fun. There was so much energy. It was like a volcano exploding. And my stomach, my stomach almost died because I ate six chocolate ice cream. So the question that I have is, did you guys get my experience? Did you got the feelings and emotions that I had that day? I guess the answer is yes. But if you notice, I used six words, a blast, a volcano exploding, tons of fun, almost die, and I ate like crazy. Now, I used six metaphors to convey my idea. You got my message. You understood what I felt that day. You understood what I experienced at the amusement park. And you kind of smiled. So metaphors are just the natural way we communicate. And notice this. It is almost impossible to describe internal states or abstract ideas or complex notions or deep feelings without using metaphors. Now, this is a very interesting scientific explanation behind that. Now, we don't have much time here, so let me explain that this way. Our brain takes notes of every single experience at every single given moment. But there are too many details. Just look around the room that you are at right now. How many elements you can count? How many objects? How many colors, smells, words, speed, light, sensations? There are hundreds, probably thousands a day. So automatically, our brain translates all the information and details into forms and symbols. And then our brain organized them through categories, patterns, and affinities. And then it places them in some type of folders. And actually, those go to certain files. And it labels those files. So those folders are files basically explained the way we perceive the world, relationships, situations, emotions, and experiences. And whenever we need to explain something that is not tangible, something that is complex, or something that has a lot of information, our mind calls the right folder. But it doesn't call the entire folder. It just calls the label. And that label allows us to explain the whole content and details in a very short and meaningful way. Now, does it look familiar? Because it seems to me that is the way we develop software. We write, we organize, we package, we label. And then every time we need to use something, we just call the label. So that's the way metaphors work. And we use tons of metaphors every day. Like, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Now, the point here is that I don't know if that light is very cool, and we are excited about getting out the other side, or is something scary, or is actually something dangerous. But the thing is that we can see a light at the end of the tunnel. All the doors around me are closed. Well, maybe that's a bad thing. Or maybe it is a good one. I don't know. We will need to explore that. I feel like going 100 miles per hour. It sounds like, oh, that's pretty cool. But maybe you got a ticket in the middle of the road. Or you got involved in an accident. So it can mean anything. Everything depends on the person, and everything depends on the context. Now, the point here, oh, we have many more. Like, my boss is the best in the world. I don't know what it means, but I guess it's something good. Or my team is like family. Ajal is the best, or this team is a pain in the neck. So there are tons of, tons of metaphors that we use all the time. Now, the point here is that if you want to get to know me, if you really want to go deep, and if you really want to learn and discover, just explore my metaphors. My pain, my fears, my passions, my challenges, my needs, everything that is important, everything that I need, my motivations, or what annoys me, all of them are in my metaphors. And that is the first concept. So are you guys with me? Perfect. So now the second concept. Do you remember when I asked about one or two words that came to your mind when you hear the words volcano, exploding, or almost dying? Well, most of the answers, pretty much 100% of them, were negative connotations. They had negative connotations. But to me, in my context, those words had a positive meaning. So we're using the same words with different meaning. And the technical term for that is bias. Here is a list of more than 100 types of biases. And I'm sure you have heard about some of them, like confirmation bias, cognitive bias, framing, group thinking, or stereotyping. Now, those biases influence everything in our lives. What we think, what we feel, and the way we make decisions. And every time we have an opinion about anything, there is a bias involved. Now, I'm not arguing if the opinion is right or wrong. I'm simply saying that the more we think we know about something, the more bias we bring to our opinions, or our decisions, or our conversations. And this is what happened when unconsciously we bring our bias to market research. So, let me show you three examples. Someone is interviewing someone else. So, do you like swimming? The answer is no. Well, what about tennis? No? I play tennis, it is fun. You should try it. Have you ever thought about tennis classes? So if I'm the interviewer, I mean, the conversation is over. To me, what else can I say there? Another example, how often do you work out? Well, no, I don't. Hmm, why not? Well, I don't have time. Well, we all are busy these days. Do you know that working out is good for your mind and your body? And end of the conversation. How do you feel? I feel strange. Oh, I'm sorry, it might be uncomfortable. Oh, okay, thanks. Would you like to feel normal? Now, how is the person being feeling in those four examples? Basically, that person heard the words, you know, you're uninformed, you're ignorant, you're an idiot, you just don't fit. So, what would be the immediate reaction of that person? Well, try to comply, try to conform, and try to fit. And this is what happened. We know change is hard and transitions are always tough. What kind of impact has the new system had in your daily life? Now, as an interviewer, you might say something like, well, I thought the new system was awesome, but now that you mention it, it definitely has had a negative impact on my life. And this is the way we contaminate all our market research, putting some bias there, and actually forgetting about the metaphors that people use. And it happens all the time. It happens everywhere and it happens to everyone. But anyway, Dave Groff, a well-known psychotherapist, came out with a series of nine questions. Those questions are designed to first, follow metaphors and second, avoiding bias. So they are free of assumptions, perceptions, suggestions, references and distractions. They are all about the other person and that's why we call them clean language. So let's go back to the amusement park example for a second. If you want to uncover my emotions and feelings and my challenges, if you want to uncover my moments of joy or learning about my pain points, first, follow my metaphors, and second, avoid bias. So ask about what kind of volcano was that volcano that I was talking about? Ask if there is anything else about that volcano. Ask about the explosion. Like what kind of explosion is that explosion? Or is there anything else about that explosion? Or ask about the energy that I was talking about. What kind of energy is that energy? Or is there anything else about that energy? Now those two questions are enough to make me go deeper and deeper until you can find underlying cause of my emotions, which usually are connected with my needs or my desires or my fears, which is what we are looking for. So this is the structure and this is the simplest one. What kind of um is that um? Or is there anything else about that um? And um means whatever the other person is talking about. So let's put it here in this corner and try a couple of examples. So how do you feel at work today? And the person answers, I feel stuck with no way out. So let's take two minutes to practice a little bit. So having those two questions, two first cleans questions, how would you use them in this example? So again, how do you feel at work today? I feel stuck with no way out. What would be the following up question there? There are four. So let's try at least two, okay? We have one minute for that. Okay, ready? So this is the simplest one. What do you feel at work today? How do you feel at work today? I feel stuck with no way out. So using a clean question may look like this. What kind of a stock is that a stock? Another example, what kind of no way out is that no way out? Another one. And is there anything else about that stock? And there is one more that we can use there. And is there anything else about that no way out? So did you guys see the pattern there? It's something actually very simple, but very powerful if we really want to go deeper and deeper and learning about the emotions and fears and feelings and moments of joy and actually as a way to find opportunities to solve people problems. So let's try another example. How do you feel when you write the metro? I feel tight. And what kind of tight is that tight? Well, it is like a container. And what kind of container is that container? Well, one that doesn't let you express yourself. And is there anything else about that container that doesn't let you express yourself? Yes, I would like to complain and ask for things, but there is no place to do it inside that container. So this is one of the most interesting things about clean language. We don't really need to pay much attention to the body of the whole conversation. Because when you go to the end, we can find the real challenges that people have over there. So in this case, we see, we start just asking about the metro and doesn't matter the conversation as we can stick with the metaphors, they will go on and on and on. And at the end, we will get the insights that we need for our market research. So the problem here is not that the person is feeling tight in the metro. Maybe it's crowded, maybe it's rush hour, maybe it's like two little space. The point is that this person wanted to complain and ask for things there and there was no place to do that. So did you see the idea? Okay, let's try another one. How do you feel when you use that app? Well, I feel anxious. And what kind of anxious is that anxious? Well, it's kind of anxious rushed. It's like being rushed. And what kind of being rushed is that being rushed? Well, it is like when the police chase you. Hmm, and is there anything else about that being rushed when the police chase you? Well, it is annoying. Let me alone to try that app for a while. I will pay for it if I like it, but don't ask me every day if I will buy it. Now, here is the same thing. We started asking just about an app and we end up finding out what the reasons for that person for not using it are. And we are using only two type of questions. What kind of, oh, is that, oh, and if there is anything else about that, oh, that's it. So let's go back a little bit and see the structure of those clean questions. So there are three parts. First, we start with anything. And anything means any type of question. For example, when you are at your best, you are like what? What are your thoughts when you make decisions? How does a good meeting look like for you? Or how do you feel when you take the bus? I mean, anything is like starting any type of conversation. Then we acknowledge. We acknowledge what the other person is saying. How do we acknowledge what the other person is saying? Well, exactly by repeating what they are saying, using the same exact words. And then we ask a clean question. So this is the list of clean questions. There might be some others, but I think this is the Pareto rule applies here. So 80% of the conversations can be hold with this 20% of the questions. So there are different types for different things. We already saw the first two. What kind of, oh, is that, oh, and if there is anything else about that, oh. When we want to explore a little bit more about location and where is that volcano located? We can explore more metaphors. And that volcano exploding is like what? That is when we want to move the person from one metaphor to another one. When we want to clarify something else, we use the relationship questions. And is there a relationship between X and Y? And when X happens, what happens to Y? We can sequence and moving people in a timeline. So what happens just before that volcano was exploding? What happens after that volcano exploded? And we can explore the origin of certain things. So where does volcano exploding come from? And there are two more. What would you like to have happen when that volcano exploded? Or what needs to happen for anything to something else to happen? And with those type of questions, we will just make people go deeper and deeper in their emotions, in their feelings, their challenges, their pain points, and that is what we will help us to discover what they really needs are. So this is one cool thing about clean language. This is actually, this is just a summary of a transcript. And as I mentioned before, we don't need to read everything. We don't need to pay attention basically to anything. It's just about following people's metaphors and using clean language. And then the person is going deeper and deeper on their thoughts and the only thing that we need to get good insights is going to the end of the conversation. So let me show you an example. How do you feel when you go to the gym? Well, I don't go to the gym because it is painful. What kind of painful is that painful? Well, it hurts. It's like a torture. Whereabouts it hurts when it's like a turtle? Well, here in my heart and here in my mind. And what kind of torture is that torture? Well, it's like I want to go to work out, but I feel in jail. And what kind of jail is that? When you feel like I want to go to work out. Well, it's one where you're isolated and you don't matter to people. And that you're isolated and you don't matter to people is like what? Well, it's like when you are lost in a different country. And what happens after you are lost in a different country? Well, I feel discouraged and don't want to work out. And where does you are lost in a different country comes from? Well, the fact that people don't talk to strangers. And what would you like to happen? Well, that people like knowledge that exists at the gym. So if you see it has kind of a rhythm, you are just following what the other person is saying and using a clean language. That's all we are doing here. And again, what matters is what we get at the end. So if we are trying to figure out why this person is not going to a gym, with regular questions, we will just hear like, oh, because it's painful. And we feel like, oh, maybe it's something physical. Maybe the person is lazy. Maybe, okay, but we go deeper and deeper. It's like asking those five why's and why and why and why and keep going on and on. We can figure out things like, this is not about something physical. This is about emotions. It's just like when I go there, nobody talks to me, nobody look at me. I don't have the opportunity to say hi to anyone. Just people don't realize that I'm at the gym. I don't exist to anyone there. So this might be about customer service. This might be about putting some people at the lobby, maybe personal trainers, maybe something else. And that is the type of insights that we are going to get when we use clean language in market research. So let's go to another example. How do you feel when you use Slack? Well, it's like watching a movie. I can spend three hours in a row. And what kind of movie is that movie? A thriller movie. And what happens just before that thriller movie? Well, I'm excited and want to watch it. And what happens after that? I'm excited and want to watch it. Well, I feel like throwing up. And where does that I feel like throwing up comes from? Well, from the people in Slack. Yeah, but is there a relationship between I feel like throwing up and the people in Slack? Of course. Those people expect me to read messages for three hours. And that expect me to read for three hours is like what? Well, it's like wasting your life. And what happens after that wasting your life? Well, I can finish my work on time and go home early. And what needs to happen for I or you to finish your work? Well, just stop making me read stuff that is not for me. And this was basically a complaint that we all have when use Slack. It's like reading a thousand messages and maybe three or four of them are just for us. I have one more here. How do you feel with the new team? Well, it's like sinking. What kind of sinking is that sinking? Well, it's not like sinking in the ocean. It's more like sinking in a lake. Oh, and what kind of sinking in the lake is that sinking in the lake? Well, people throw lots of paint, but it's not enough. And what happens just before people throw lots at you? Well, I feel some people care and that's why they throw some floods at me. Well, and what kind of some people care is that some people care? Well, it's like they provide technical training and also certifications. And is there a relationship between people throw some floods and those technical training and also certifications? Yes, but not the right relationship because that's not what we need. Oh, and what do you like to have happened? Well, something new and different, like fresh air. And what needs to happen for I to have something new and different, like fresh air? Well, first they need to see that we need fresh air. Then they need to buy some for us so we can breathe as a group and learn together. And again, what matter here is just the last few sentences. The insights that we are looking for are just there. Now, as I mentioned before, this was supposed to be a workshop when we were going to do all these exercises in Paris some groups of three. So I will just show you this one and see if we can catch it like very quickly. I want to put my past behind me. So what do you guys think? Is this question, what do you mean a clean question? I would say no. Why do you want to forget about your past? Probably that is not a clean question. All those have our bias there. What's happened in your past? Well, probably that person doesn't even know what happened there. That's why they want to put it there behind. So what do you plan to do that? How do you plan to do that? Well, if the person has a plan, maybe he wouldn't be feeling like they want to put their past behind me. So probably that is not a clean question. Well, what kind of put my past behind is that put my past behind? That might be a clean question. What about this one? And that put my past behind is like what? And again, this is a clean question, no bias involved and we are just following the other person's words. So another one, something is holding me back. Do you guys think that this is a clean question? Why is something holding you back? Because probably that person doesn't even know the reasons. What is holding you back? Well, most likely that person has no idea what is holding his or her back. What stops you from moving forward? Well, if the person has a solution, that person wouldn't be asking this question. So probably this is not a clean question. And what happens just before something was holding you back? That might be a clean question. And what happens after something is holding you back? That is another clean question. And is there anything else about that something is holding you back? So if you look at the last three, my bias is not there, my judgment is not there, my opinion is not there, I'm just following the other person's metaphor. And that's why those three are clean questions. Do you guys remember when we were talking about surveys, like customer research surveys or user experience surveys? This is the type of questions that we find there. All those questions are biased. All those questions are just trying to validate stuff. They are not trying to discover anything. They are not trying to find out anything about the other person's emotions or feelings or fears or anything. They are just validating a original idea that we have in mind. So that's basically the opposite to what we call clean language. Now, my takeaways. The first one, always, always remember to avoid bias and to follow other people's metaphors. So the meaning that some words have for a person might be completely different from the meaning that another person might have about the same words. I'm biased, so don't forget that. Every time we express an opinion, there is a bias involved. And we are not judging if we are right or wrong. It's just that there is a bias involved. Second takeaway. Every time we do some type of market research or try to find out pain points or challenges or anything about people, we should always start with a blank sheet. So forget everything you know or you think you know about that person, that target market, that group of people. Sometimes for the teams that I work with, we try to use something like this, just as a way to remind them that our opinion and our judgment has to be out of this exercise. And the only thing that matters is starting with a blank sheet. So the fact that I speak Spanish, it doesn't mean that I'm from Mexico, it doesn't mean that I'm from South America. I can be from Europe, probably from Spain. Because I'm Catholic, it doesn't mean that every Sunday you will find me at a church. Or it doesn't mean that I'm a better person than you are. So those are just little mantras and sentences that sometimes is good to read before you start going out and talking to people, just as a reminder to yourself. And the third takeaway, practice. And practice, and practice. This is a really powerful tool not only for market research, but for our daily conversations. This is then the list of questions. And a really good exercise is just cutting those questions in pieces, put them on a table, put them down, close your eyes, ask yourself any type of questions or a challenge that you might have. And then one by one, you start flipping over questions and just read them aloud to yourself. And once you ask yourself one clean question, you close your eyes, you answer to yourself, and then you flip another question and you ask yourself another question. And that is probably one of the best ways to practice this. So I'm sorry, again, that we were not able to do this in person. Hopefully next year we will be able to do it, but the idea was like practicing in pairs or trios all the time. So at least I hope that you got the idea, you got the concepts, and now you will be able to check this out a little bit later and try to practice in Europe. Do you guys have any question? Thank you so much, Ricardo. Actually, the session was really good. I've seen other sessions as well about clean questions, but I think this was one of the best ones that I've seen. Alexhman actually has asked a question. Is there any relationship with five wives? Every time I do this exercise, I ask myself exactly the same question because it's pretty much the same thing, like why, why, why? But if you're interviewing me and you ask me like why, why, why, probably I don't have the answer. And it's going to be a little bit like rude. If you ask me why. So if I say, you know, I feel stuck at work, like why? Well, I don't know. If I knew, I wouldn't be like feeling that way. I try to find a solution, right? So it's the same concept, but it's not a completely different approach that can help people just open up. I hope that answers your question, Alexhman. This actually ends our session and the time for the session.