 Welcome to this show. Today we are going to have a discussion on science communication and with me I have Dr. Manaj Kumar Pateria. He is a scientist and director of National Council for Science and Technological Communication from the Ministry of Science and Technology and Government of India. Welcome, sir, to our show. Hello, thank you. Sir, I just want to know regarding the concept of science communication. Science communication is a discipline of the scientific knowledge and expertise. That means taking scientific knowledge from its source to the end user. And the process is not that simple. It has to go through several hands, several minds and several processes. And that is why it is a full-fledged advanced knowledge and discipline and that is science communication. But science communication is not that simple to just flow of information from its source to the end user. It has several different kinds of annotations, several kinds of meanings, several kinds of definitions. Say for the world, the western world especially, where we call it an advanced society, they consider science communication as a tool for enjoyment, as a tool for exploration, as a tool for fun for the children, for the students. But for us, as far as science communication is concerned for the Indian scenario, especially for the developing country's perspective, it is not that only. We have different kinds of objectives through science communication. Like shaping and saving the lives of the people that is our prime concern. People are dying here because they are lacking petty information. For the want of that information, they are even dying. So, science communication has a larger perspective in Indian context. So, science communication from the western perspective is different from the Indian perspective. Could you just tell me regarding the functions? How does it work out in the society? Well, science communication as a subject, if we can consider. So, science communication, as I told you, it is a process of linking the scientific research with the society. Because a lot of work is going on in our laboratories. And scientists are busy with their work in laboratories. They are doing research, they are conducting various studies, they are doing innovations, they are doing scientific or technological developments leading to development of tools, equipments in various processes, do how, know how kind of things. But these developments remain unused until they reach to the end user. So, there comes the role of science and technology communication. That is one aspect. How to link the scientific research or the scientific laboratories to the common man, to the society? That is one aspect. The other aspect, at the same time society also facing various problems. These problems can have scientific solutions. But scientists are not aware of these solutions. Scientists are not aware of these problems. So, the job of a science communicator is also to bringing the problems are being faced by the society to take them to the scientists. It is a two kind of two way of communication. So, it means that the scientific, taking the scientific knowledge from the scientist to the society at the same time taking the scientific problems and scientific issues of the society to the scientist for their subsequent solutions. So, that is very important role of a science communicator. That is the very important role of science communication in our society. Third one is if you, I think our audience or our students and you might have heard that there is a global crisis of declining of interest in science in general. Yes. General decline in our students has been observed all across the world. It is not the case only in India or developing countries. It is the case of all across the world. That is yet another concern. Science communication can also play its role for developing this interest among the students and the youngsters especially. Let me make it very clear over here that the interest in general science is not declining. The interest is declining in taking science as an active career. Taking scientific research or scientific studies as a career. In that perspective, interest is declining. But in general interest of public in science is enhancing. So, that is very particular. I am very particular to make it very clear that interest in science in general is enhancing. But the interest in scientific research or taking science as a career in particular is declining. So, science communication can popularize science, can attract youngsters to its fold. To develop a kind of science excitement among us then. So, for example, like National Council for Science and Technology Communication, the organization where I belong, we have started various programs to excite the minds of youngsters by way of taking them to the laboratories. Arranging meetings of youngsters with the scientists, active scientists, they can stay with the scientists. They can spend some of their quality time with the scientists in the laboratories. They can understand how scientists are working, how they are conducting themselves in the laboratory. At the same time, they are able to develop the interest in science and technology. Subsequently, they can take up scientific studies and scientific research as a career. But have you taken any steps like to popularize science communication at the grassroots level? I mean those areas where like hardly any laboratory facilities are there, the scientific institutions have come up. So, for them, those students, especially in the rural areas, have you taken any steps or kind of anything like how to penetrate into those areas and develop scientific temperament among them, so, any such steps? Oh yes, so you have said two elements together. One, the science popularization among the rural folk and the other aspect is inculcating scientific temperament. Because scientific temperament is the root cause of the entire development. Scientific temperament gives us a rational ability to analyze things, to perceive things in a proper way and to take decisions without any bias, without any prejudice, without any pressure, without any fear and without any greed, without anything like rational and very specific decision, precision decision you can take if you apply the scientific temperament. At the same time, while taking a decision and you are using your scientific temperament, so, only scientific temperament is not sufficient unless you have the sufficient information. So, you must have information back up with you while taking a decision. So, you require a best combination of the knowledge, the information as well as your right kind of attitude that comes through scientific temperament. So, best combination of these two elements holds the key for the overall development and for that purpose we are organizing various programs from NCSTC and with the help of other organizations like you must have heard about Bharat Jan Vidyan Jattha that was first organized in 1987. Subsequently, it was organized in a different name. It was Bharat Jan Vidyan Jattha. It was organized in 1992. And after that we realized that instead of having the national jattha program we must organize simultaneously some regional jattha also. So, from time to time we are organizing these jattha and these jattha have a kind of mixed media approach. It's a kind of assemblage and the jattha people they go around the country from village to village and they are using various kinds of mass media. This jattha was a development when there was no multimedia technology was not available at that time. So, we used to call, we were using different kind of mass media. It could be a distribution of a booklet or a brochure or delivering a lecture talking to the people, man to man contact, personal contact, public relations. Then at the same time screening some film or some radio something play of a radio skit. So, we were using various modes of communication including various media. Since the advent of this new technology, the digital media, multimedia we have changed that name and now we call it mixed media approach. Because if we call it multimedia, we continue calling multimedia then people can misunderstand. So, we are using this mixed media approach for educating people for linking these scientific messages to the people. But there should be an expansion of information communication technology at the same time together with what you call the spring text materials which is a congregation of different medias. Yes. So, but what do you prefer, which media is best for propagating? All of them. I should not say which is the best. All of them and the key is the combination of all of them. For inculcating this information to the learners and students do you have any specific criteria like who should impart to them? Are there any specific trainers for this purpose or any generals like creatures? Oh yes, that is very important question and that is really very important. I will be happy to address that question for the advantage of our dear students and the listeners and the viewers. Who could be a science communicator? So, a lot of debate is going on the world over and generally there has been the debate that one segment of the experts think that a science communicator must have a degree in science and technology. So, they feel that it is a prerequisite for becoming a science communicator or becoming a science communication expert. At the same time the other set of people they believe that no it should not be a prerequisite for having a degree in science or technology. The only ability that is required that should be required for becoming a science communicator is to be able to understand the scientific jargon, to be able to appreciate that scientific contents and to be able to deliver and to express in a manner so that it becomes comprehensible to the common man. So, that kind of ability is required. So, not the science degree but the communication expertise is required but at the same time he or she should be able to understand the scientific jargon. Scientific jargon I mean in the science and scientific contents you will find lot of technical terminologies, technical subjects, technical terms, technical words, technical vocabulary. So, that has to be changed in a manner that has to be explained in a manner because you are dealing not only with experts you are dealing with the common man even illiterate people. So, how to convey these complex scientific messages to the common man those who have not undergone with the scientific training. So, that ability is very much required. So, these people should become a science communicator. For becoming a science communicator it is not required. General, that is general view, general view is there that science communication, science degree or technology degree should not be a prerequisite for becoming a science communicator. Even a scientist if he or she has a bent of mind for communication can become a communicator. At the same time a communicator or a journalist if he or she has an influence towards science can become a science communicator. Even a person who has done MSC or BSC working in bank, working with railway or as a businessman he or she can also undertake science communication as a hobby or as an amateur activity. So, it is open to all and mostly people in this area are coming from a passion. They have some kind of attitude towards science communication but this is not the age we can only work along on passion. So, we have to develop a scientific expertise especially in science and technology communication and we require a trained manpower in this area for developing enough science communicators not only in Hindi and English but in all regional languages including Assamese. So, for that purpose we have started various courses in science communication. We have started short term programs, training programs on science communication like science writing for radio, science writing for television, science writing for folk media, science writing for digital media, science writing for interactive media. So, all these things we are doing through NCSTC. Yeah, you have said that we use different media to reach out to the people especially about science communication but can you just tell me the format of writing? I am going to like whether it is print media, electronic media and radio how does the format need to be to propagate the science based reports and messages. Okay, I will present a kind of five, I will tell you the five elements of science communication. So, what are these five elements especially our students can understand clearly. The five elements of science communication are number one there should be some scientific contents because we read a lot of material in newspapers or in mass media we find out of material in the name of science communication in the name of science and technology but there is hardly any science. So, there should be some science stuff should be there. Some scientific content should be there. Some science principle has to be explained over there. So, that is the first requirement. The second is the language should be very simple, very lucid it should be understandable to the common man. So, you are not addressing the literary people you are addressing the common people. So, your language should not be literary your language should be very common, very simple and small paragraphs, small phrases, small sentences so that is the requirement for the language. The third element is you must address the how and why part of the science subject whatever you are dealing with. So, third element is how and why you have to explain it is how and why it is happening, how it is happening. So, that analysis should be there. Then fourth is analysis. What is your contribution? What is the contribution of a communicator? So, that is more important for science communication because generally science communicators are blamed as the pleasurisers. Like you are taking information from here you are taking information from there and giving it to the media. So, what is your contribution? Your contribution comes only when you are able to add some analysis because you being an enlightened person you are able to see what your audience is unable to see. So, your role should be to be able that your audience is able to see what you are watching what you are able to perceive. So, that communication must come through your analytical power and fifth and very important point is humor. It should be interesting. It should be interesting. It should be lucid. It should be humorous. So, combining all these five elements you can make a science communication piece very effective and very meaningful. Now, how to do that? These are five points, five elements. Now, I will come to further five points of science communication. For any kind of science communication you have to have a topic. So, first element is, first point is you have to select a topic. So, you have to find a topic of science communication and mostly the topics come from the current affairs. If something is happening today, suppose there is some earthquake or there are floods. So, you can take up the issues which are important to the daily lives of the people which are important for the day to day affairs of the people. So, first one you have to select a topic like if there is an announcement of Nobel prizes then you can prepare a writer or you can take up an interview of a scientist who is working in that area where some other scientist has got a Nobel prize. So, you can prepare an interview or you can write a report. So, selection of topic. Then, second one is selection of language. So, take up the language where you feel comfortable. You can write an asmese. You can write in English and whatever. Incidentally, India has 22 regional languages. So, you can write in any one or two of the languages where you feel comfortable. Then, third one is you have to select your media for which media you are writing. Whether you are writing for print media or you are writing for broadcast media. That includes radio and television. Then, whether you are writing for the folk media or whether you are writing for puppet show or you are writing for a skit or you are writing for theater or drama or street play, whatever. Or a folk song, folklore. So, whatever the media you are using or you are preparing for a presentation for a management contact, for a personal contact. So, these kinds of media you have to identify. Fourth point is you have to identify your target audience because if you are very clear in your mind that with whom you are going to talk for whom you are writing for whom you are preparing your communication then your mind will be very clear because if you are communicating with the experts your way of presentation, way of communication way of conversation would be different. If you are talking to a common man your way of working, way of communication will be different from the experts. If you are coming further down you are talking to children then your way of presentation will be different. So, you have to identify your target audience. Then fifth and last point is you have to identify the format. Format is very important. Generally the science communicators and science writers, they used to write very hard, very long, very boring articles. So, we must discourage the writing articles because in this age of dynamism in this age of innovation nobody likes boring articles. There should be innovation and communication also. Incidentally in literature we have various formats of writing. We can write a story that is called science fiction. Science fiction is very common, very popular. It is very easy to understand even for the children you can communicate through science fiction, writing, science stories, science points, science drama, science interview, science discussion. Satire can also be written on scientific themes. So, survey based articles, features is very popular format for science communication. So, there are many formats for science communication in general. But if you go for the TV, go for the radio, there are some subsequent divisions are also there like documentary, doku drama, discussion, interviews. So, a lot of and that is not the end. It is up to you, you can evolve, you can develop your own format. That is also welcome. So, always look for some kind of creativity. And that creativity will come from within. Sir, I just want to know regarding this, can you just give a brief overview of like health and environmental communication since these are the very most important parts of science communication. So, can you just give a brief review of it. When we call it science communication, so we generally mean all kinds of sciences. It includes agriculture, it includes physics, chemistry, zoology, botany, earth sciences, all kinds of including environment and medical science also. But since we have asked very particularly about environment and medical communication, so I must say that generally these environmental and medical communication they have a risk. And the risk is that generally these most of the medical industry is governed by the industrial houses. Similarly, in the there are market driven forces in environmental aspects also. Like you must have heard about some new GMOs, genetically modified foods, genetically modified organisms, genetically modified crops, fruits, etc. So, there are a lot of other other connecting pressures and risks. So, a science environmental communicator or a health communicator should be cautious while reporting any such environmental or medical issues. Because sometime there have been instances not only in India but at global level also that even researchers, even communicators, even those who are lobby lobby workers they have the links with the industries who are supporting, who are funding these kinds of researches and subsequently to promote their products. So, a cautious science communicator, a cautious environmental communicator, a cautious medical communicator should be very, very, very, very careful while reporting on all these issues. That is the only difference I could make at this point as a general science communicator was a specialized science communicator. Otherwise the only ability that I can recommend that is to be able to underestimate the scientific jargon. Like environment also a kind of science and applied science. Similarly medical science is also a kind of science communicator. So by way of developing that kind of expertise only thing you should be valuable about the market forces. So you should not be campaigning for them. You should not be writing on behalf of them. So that has to be made very clear. As far as health communication is concerned like we have seen in most of the areas and especially in rural areas like our society is steeped into all these religious dogmas and superstitious and so on. So people like the hesitant to go and accept the scientific innovations and discover and use it in their own day to day lives. So like this is in the mindset of the people. So how do we change this mindset so that they accept it and utilize it for the daily needs and uses. I think that is also very important and how to change the mindset of the people because those who are and generally I used to say that these age old superstitions they have dual roles. One at one end they are hindering our developmental process at the same time they are also impacting our day to day decision making like if the snack bite is there. So people go to some ojha or some self style dogman or somewhere. Rather they should go to anti-venom injection. So our programs should be built around in a way so that we can inculcate a kind of understanding into the minds of the people that we should not approach such people rather we should go to the hospital and get this. And this stage is scenario is changing earlier you can recall that earlier if there was a small pox then people used to go to some goddess and have some casual rituals but now they are going to the hospitals and they have the vaccines and most of the people they are getting their children vaccinated so the changes are coming but these are age old these notions it will take some time to have a change. Incidentally I will tell you something very interesting if you remember I don't know whether you were there at that time or not in 1980 there was a total solar eclipse it was visible from various parts of India Northern India also and most of the people they were confined to their homes, their offices they did not go out and everybody was just keeping themselves inside their houses curfew like situation streets after the advent of NCSTC various media houses CSIR efforts NGOS efforts, a collective efforts that has changed the scenario now look at the total solar eclipse that happened in 1995 and during 1995 it was in October sometime around Deepavali and it happened in the morning and we have arranged a campaign across the belt of totality in Rajasthan and there is a superstition that during the eclipse you should not eat anything and deliberately we have arranged the breakfast at that time the eclipse has started simultaneously we started the breakfast and the rural folk who were confined into the houses, they came out and they also told us sir we also want to see this how and throw these mylar film filters this spectacular event and they were very happy then came 1999 and there was yet another total solar eclipse and total solar eclipse was going its own way people were going on their own way nobody bothered so this was a change in a span of something like 20 years you look at the situation of 1980 now you look at the situation of 1999 and subsequently 2009 we also had solar eclipse and you can remember, well remember that there was not that kind of suppression that prevailed two decades before and like what do you think about the scope and the development of this particular branch of communication which we call science communication especially in north-eastern part of India from this perspective is there any scope for development for propagating this among the masses is still there I am very happy to notice that north-eastern part of India is very rich in science communication I have seen many people are writing science fiction here many people even have prepared encyclopedia here so this popular science magazines are also available in north-eastern region so I am very happy with the progress that the north-eastern people have made especially in terms of science and technology communication in north-eastern region and like other areas north-east also requires some development and I am happy that KK Handek State Open University has started various courses on science and technology communication and I think all these efforts will go a long way to develop a trained manpower in the area of science communication who should be able not to meet the current challenges as well as the future challenges also and meet the regional requirements as well as the national international requirements in the area of science and technology communication so I am very hopeful and optimistic about that ok sir thank you so much for the wonderful discussions and communication I am delighted to be with you so that's all we come to the end of our discussion thank you