 Good morning. This is Thursday. I'm Jay Fidel. This is Community Matters. We're talking to Rabbi Itchell Kresen Jansky today of Khabarov, Hawaii to catch up with him. And I want to say it's an odd day because the news is that COVID is on the rise and also the stock market is on the fall. Those two things seem to go hand in hand. Anyway, welcome to the show, Rabbi. Nice to see your smile and face. Well, thank you. It's nice to be here as always. And yes, the market is down today and it's sad to hear that there's a spike in the numbers. Let's hope tomorrow's a better day. Yeah, agreed. So, you know, I wanted to, you know, talk to you and learn something about Tishabab. It's coming up in July. And my limited reading on it is that it's not a happy holiday. It's a fasting day. It's a day of sadness. But I don't know really why. Can you talk about it? Sure. So Tishabab, actually, which just here correct falls out on July 30th, the end of July, is actually the saddest day of the year in the Jewish calendar. Because this is a day that marks many, many tragedies that happen to the Jewish people throughout our history. The biggest of the tragedies are that on this day, the temple was destroyed, first by the Babylonians, and then 400 years later or so by the Romans. And they were both on the same day, on the day of Tishabab. Tishabab is in Hebrew, the ninth day of the month of Alt. So they are fasting, they have mourning, and it is like everything else in Judaism. It is a lot deeper once you get into it than what it appears to be on the surface. Firstly, going all the way back to the Torah, the Bible. We read in the Torah about the Jewish people. After they left Egypt, they were meant to go into Israel. They were meant to go from Egypt to Israel via the Sinai desert. And right before they were to enter Israel, they had to strategize how to conquer the land. Because there were many nations that were living there, the Canaanites, for one nation. And so the Torah tells us that Moses sends 12 messengers, 12 spies, because they had to do some spy. The heads of each of the tribes, there were 12 tribes amongst the Jewish people that comprised the Jewish nation. So Moses sent 12 members, each member from a different tribe, different tribe, on a reconnaissance mission to go and to look at the land and come back with a report on how to conquer the land. However, they came back and in addition to delivering the report that they gave, they also injected their opinion. And they said that it's not possible to conquer the land. This is a land that's populated by very, very, very powerful nations. They're much stronger than us. They're giants. We're midgets. We're small. And we cannot win this one. So the whole nation went into despair because they were in the desert. The desert is not a place to live. The desert was a very inevitable place. The desert was only meant to be a stepping ground to get them to Israel as quickly as possible. But now that they heard that there are no realistic chances for them to enter into the land and conquer the land, they fell into despair. And God appeared to Moses and said that the despair is unwarranted and the weeping and the crying is unwarranted. And basically, if God says to do it, it can be done. However, because they lack the faith and trust in God and in Moses, so the 40 days that it took these spies to go and come back turned into a decree from God that that generation would wander for 40 years in the desert for every day that they failed, every day of the failed mission was another year. And that entire generation would die out in the desert. It would only be their children that would enter into the land of Israel and conquer the land of Israel. And the Torah tells us that when did this happen? This happened on Tisha B'Av, on the ninth day of Av. So God said, this is what the Talmud tells us, God said that you're weeping for nothing because I'm about to enter you into a wonderful land, a land filled with milk flowing with milk and honey, which is a metaphor for all the blessings that are in Israel. But you're rejecting it. And as a result of that, this is day, the day of Tisha B'Av, will always be a dark day in your history, a day when warrant real weeping for real, for good causes, for real tragedies. So the day of Tisha B'Av has been marked as a day of tragedy. And the two big tragic things are the destruction of both of the temples in Jerusalem. But also many other large-scale tragedies happened to the Jewish people on this day. The Spanish, the expulsion of the Spanish Jews in 1492, when the Jewish people were expelled from Spain. That's part of the inquisition, part of the inquisition. The decree came out on Tisha B'Av. That was the day when all Jews had to either convert to Christianity or leave, and most chose to leave. And that was a very, very, very difficult time because many people did not survive the long trek and was a disruption of generations of life in those countries. More recently in our bringing it closer to home, two things happened on Tisha B'Av that are very significant. One is World War II, I'm sorry, World War I broke out on Tisha B'Av, on the corresponding day of the Hebrew calendar of Tisha B'Av. And World War I really was the first salvo in the undoing of the world order that existed up until then, which ultimately led to World War II, which led to the Holocaust. So it all traces itself back to Tisha B'Av. And then even more recently than that, in Israel, in the land of Israel, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon decided to give Gaza to the Palestinians as a gesture of peace. And by force vacated tens of thousands of Jewish people that were living on the Gaza Strip, and this was home for them. And they turned that desert, that strip of land into oasis of farming and everything else. And so the day that this evacuation, the forced evacuation took place was on Tisha B'Av. And we all know, especially with the benefit of hindsight, that was a colossal, colossal mistake. A, it did not achieve the goal of bringing peace, the, you know, immediately the Palestinians moved in and Hamas took over and it became a launching pad for terrorism to the state of Israel. And in addition to them within 24 hours of receiving the land back, they went on a protest riot, maybe not unsimilar to what we're seeing today, looting and destroying all the greenhouses, the factories that the Jewish people left for them. The Israeli people, Jewish people left for them in Gaza were destroyed. So that was another sad day. Now, so that's the history, that's the context of Tisha B'Av. So like I said, it's a day of fasting, 24 hour fast. There's only two days in the Jewish calendar that there are 24 hour fasts. One is Yom Kippur and the other day is Tisha B'Av, the ninth of Av. So aside from fasting, what does a, you know, what does a practicing Jew do on Tisha B'Av? It sounds like what he should do is to stay in bed and pull the, and pull the covers over his head. Well, actually the very opposite is what happens. So first of all, there's a lot of praying going on in the synagogue. There's many, there's a lot of prayer. It's called, it's called lamentations. We read from the, from the prophet Jeremiah, he prophesized the destruction. We read different prayers that bemoan the fate of the Jewish people and describe the tragedy of the destruction of the temples. But in the larger sense, and this is where the deeper understanding of Tisha B'Av comes in, the Torah teaches us that, that there are only two things. There's things that are openly and revealed good, that we can see it, touch it, feel it, appreciate it, understand it. Then you have hidden good. Then you have things that seem to be bad. And the good is hidden. It's not seen. It's not apparent. You have to dig very deep. And you have to find the good in the bad, the light in the darkness. And it seems to be that this is the, the, the, like the, the the motif, the, the, the, the, the long running motif of all of Judaism and perhaps all of life, all of life in general, that the Torah teaches us, for example, that the destruction of the temples and the subsequent diaspora was tragic and was a quote unquote a negative event. But it actually opened up the door and it was part of God's plan to scatter the Jewish people to all four corners of the world, us here in Hawaii for a divine purpose, a divine mission, which is to carry forth the, the, the role as the prophets articulated for the Jewish people, which is to be a light unto the nations. So sitting in, if we had been in Israel, in the Holy Land of Israel, all the Jewish people, it would have been very, very hard. Well, let me, let me ask you a question, Rabbi. You know, we have talked, you and I have talked, and people have talked, and it's, it's in the conversation about the temples and the destruction of the temples. This is, you know, it happened a lot on two occasions and it had a profound effect on Jewish people and Judaism and the history of the Jewish people in the world. But, but why, why did they, why did the Jewish people just leave town? Why did they go on the diaspora? Why didn't they stay around? Why didn't they build a third temple? And how important is the temple anyway? You know, it seems like we've gotten along without one for a long time and we seem to have done okay without one. So what was so important about it and why didn't we pursue that? Wow, that's a lot of questions rolled into one question. So first of all about the importance of the temple, okay. The temple was not just a big structure where the Jewish people gathered to pray and to bring sacrifices as it was in the biblical times, but the temple was the epicenter of Jewish life because in the temple that's where God and godliness was revealed in a very palatable way. Today when we look, today in the diaspora the world doesn't point to God. As a matter of fact, you have many people that deny that God exists or if he exists, he's only like a, you know, a minority partner in life. You know, we're the ones that have to carry the rain and God, you know, God, you know, maybe at best is our conscience that tries to, you know, whisper to us, you know, to be good and to be your best, etc. But to recognize that God is not in the background, but God actually not only created the world but but, but, but sustains the world and everything that happens is directed by God is something that today, you know, the reality doesn't point to that. The only way to recognize that is through deep contemplation and Torah study and and maybe if you go through life long enough, you come to realize that things are not as they appear to be and, you know, and while, you know, we seem to be in control or we feel, we think we are in control and then a virus comes along and very quickly shows us that we have no understanding and no control and not only of the big things, but even the small things. So that's what the temple represented. The temple represented a manifestation of God and the truth that today is only in the books. When you look into the books, then you can study, you can, you can arrive at that realization. But if you look out your window and in your day-to-day life, we don't experience that. We don't sense that. So that's a very profound transition. Instead of the physical temple, it's the books, it's conceptual. And maybe that explains, I mean, I still would like your answer on this, but maybe that explains why the Jewish people have never attempted to build a third temple. That's why, I mean, they certainly could have, they could in Israel, you know, in modern times, but they haven't. And it sounds like Judaism and the whole notion of the temple has been sort of translated into the religion as it exists in the books. Am I right? Well, well, yes, that's a very good point. But actually, I would point out something else, something positive that came from this negative tragedy and something that explains or perhaps gives us a little, little insight into God's master plan. So one of the basic principles in Judaism is that God is the essence of goodness. So everything that emanates from God is good. And if it doesn't appear to be good, as we mentioned before, that means you just have to dig deeper and hopefully we can understand the good with the good in it. Some things are beyond our understanding, some tragedies and some setbacks are beyond our understanding. No, we have to try to find the light. We have to make something of it. We have to make some analysis to give us some comfort that this is a true thing that in everything there is the light. So my question, you know, I mean, I don't want to dance too much around outside of what you're discussing, but here we have COVID. COVID is killing hundreds of thousands of people. It will kill a lot more people. It will just, you know, disturb, it is disturbing, disrupting the world. Where's the good? This is like asking about the Holocaust, you know, where's the good when somebody being killed? Can you find good in these things? And how does it appear to you? And how can you fully appreciate integrate that? So that's a very, very, very, very important question. And like all important questions, there's no simple answers or no quick answers. And sometimes if we don't have an answer is better because then we actually try to wrestle, we wrestle with the question. If we immediately get an answer, you go to Mr. Google and you get an answer. So the question doesn't percolate enough in your mind and heart to really plumb the depths of the question. So let's sit with that question and let us all wrestle with it. Because when we do, we will actually come to a better understanding. So let me just say something about the Holocaust, and then I'll talk about what I've read and what I hear and what I feel and think about COVID-19. But first of all, even before I say about the Holocaust, questions like that really need to be addressed to the real big kuhunas within Judaism, like the Rebbe of Blessed Memory. That was the kind of thing that he would speak to. Because, you know, the Rebbe, someone who is a spiritual giant, knows how to read the tea leaves, so to speak, and God's subtle messages. It's been explained, it's been explained, the whole idea of, you know, God sending us messages. So it's explained with the analogy of a father or a mother, a parent who takes their young child out in the evening, wanting to show this young child the magnificent stars in the heaven, like here in Hawaii, the beautiful, you know, star skies that we see almost every night. So the parent takes the young child out and points with their finger to the sky, wanting the child to see the stars. But the young child who's so young and doesn't understand, is fixated on the finger, is looking to the finger without realizing that the finger is pointing to where the parent wants him to look. So we're looking at God's fingers. Whatever God sends our way is like God pointing to us. But we, not understanding, we just get fixated on the finger on what's happening and don't even contemplate where is God pointing, what does he want us to see that we're not seeing. So in the Holocaust, there are two questions that the world, particularly the Jewish people were grappling with right after the Holocaust. One was what does that say about God? If God is all merciful and all powerful and a good God, how can he allow for such tragedy to happen? That was a question that frankly many people lost their faith in God, you know, as a result of the Holocaust, especially those who lived through it. And for other people, interestingly enough, it actually deepened their faith in God. If you read or if you've spoken to Holocaust survivors, some of them actually came away with a deeper faith in God. So that, so let's leave that aside now. That's a very deep theological discussion. But the Holocaust also had a lot to say about man and civilization and society. How can a whole entire nation turn into barbaric murderers? How could the world, the whole civilized world, turn a blind eye to such human suffering? That tells you a lot about civilization. Many people lost faith in man and lost faith in civilization. So these are the things when we talk about, you know, like you said, so what's the takeaway from a tragedy like that? In reference to COVID-19 and in reference to the destruction of the temples, so once the temple was destroyed, the epicenter of Jewish life was moved into the Jewish home. And that actually had a very, very, very profound positive effect, because now it wasn't, you know, going to the synagogue, going to the temple to speak to God. You have to find God within your home, within yourself. And that's really the secret of Jewish survival, how over the millennia, you know, with all the persecutions Jews were able to survive, because it was God in their hearts and in their homes that kept them shining bright. That's in reference to the destruction of the temples. And in a very similar way, I believe, is the takeaway from what we're experiencing now with COVID-19. Also the temples have been closed, all the synagogues have been closed. And everything is happening in the house, in the home. And in the home is really where you show your true colors. You know, when we walk out, we wear different hats and different masks today, literally and figuratively. But at home, we are ourselves, who we are. So the message, you know, God is sending us home saying now, you know, be who you truly are, be the good that you, the person that you are, be it at home, in your relationship with your wife and your family, even in your relationship, be yourself. And yes, and we've been forced to, you know, to experience this, you know, maybe on our own, we wouldn't choose to focus, you know, on the deepest levels of who we are and how we are, stuff like that. So that's perhaps one good that could come out of it. Obviously, the depth and the, you know, people dying is an illness is not something that you can understand why that is good and how it is good. But, you know, that's where faith kicks in. Faith begins where reason ends. You can only go so far, you know, with the mind, even though the mind is a very powerful tool and we use our mind to guide us and to, and that's really the engine of our being and our guide. But sometimes the mind can only go so far. And what happens when you can't go any further, that's where faith kicks in, which means you surrender to a higher being, a higher authority. So, you know, taking all that though, this has really been a great discussion. I so appreciate your thoughts on all of these things. But taking all of that, Rabbi, here we are in a time when we have an uncontrolled pandemic, which means a lot more people will die. We have racial strife and racism in this country. We have an economy which is in, you know, arguably in trouble and arguably in free fall, which is going to affect us, all of us. This is not the best of times. And so I ask you, you know, to pull from that here in, you know, on the way to Tishabab, your advice to us. How do we handle a world that seems to be on fire? How do we handle a world that has only lamentable things coming? How do we see that? How do we deal with it? Well, what I would say is two things. Number one, I think we each have to know that we could be part of the solution. And not to throw up our hands. They, what can we do? That God has endowed each and every one of us with sechel, with intellect, and if we have good intentions, we actually could do a lot of good and to fix things. And sometimes when things are really broken, that's the best time to come in and fix. You know, when you look at a house that's okay, it's harder to imagine tearing it down and building a nicer house. But if the house is in tatters and it's all broken up, it's very easy to recognize and very easy to tear it down and to build and to rebuild stronger. So I think this is almost like an invitation. And, you know, and almost like God knocking on our door and saying, okay, come with your best abilities and fix all of these issues that seem to be bringing us down and tearing us apart, whether it's what's happening now in America with the race, riots, address that issue. And actually, the Rebbe in his wisdom talked about these things many, many, many times. And it has a lot to do with faith in God. We live in a society that's pretty much taken God out of the picture. God has been expelled from the schools, as Reagan once said. You can't teach about God in the schools. God is not part of our lives. And the result of that is really what's happening today. I mean, it requires another conversation for us, you know, to maybe we should talk about it. What does the Torah have to say about the issues of the day, of today? And how, what kind of guidance can the Torah give us to heal our society? And great, great questions, questions we do have to address. And it'd be so, so important to have your answers on those questions. So I'm looking forward, Rabbi, to our next time when we can address this and put it in perspective. I hope things are not that much worse the next time. But I, but I fear things will not be that much better either. So let's hold those thoughts, okay? And we'll come back and talk to you in a few weeks and by the way, your advice and counsel. Jay, just like to conclude it with a joke, you just reminded me of a good Jewish joke. What is the definition of a Jewish optimist? So the pessimist says it can't get worse, cannot get worse. But the optimist, the Jewish optimist says, what are you talking about? For sure, it'll get worse. There, Rabbi Itchel Kresenjansky, the leader of Habanemowai. Thank you so much. And also for the joke. Aloha. Thank you.