 Welcome to Narrative for Change. I'm David Bank. I'm the editor and CEO of Impact Alpha. We're a five day a week morning brief that many of you have received. Many of you have been in the brief all around impact investing. And I'm so excited about this discussion. I wanna thank the SOCAP folks and the Kellogg Foundation folks for inviting me to join. And I wanna just briefly bring in the guests and then I'll set a little context and we'll keep rolling. So Larry Marcus, the managing director of Marcy Ventures with Jay-Z here in the Bay Area. Welcome Larry. Hi David. And Poppy Hanks down in LA, the executive vice president of Macro Media which many of you will know from all the shows you've been watching. So welcome Poppy. Thank you for having me. And Carla Thompson-Paton, the vice president for program strategy at the Kellogg Foundation coming to us from Philadelphia. Hi Carla. Hello, how are you? You know, narrative change is just, it's kind of in the air I guess. But I just wanna say that we wanna claim it too at Impact Alpha. We're in the business of narrative change as well. And we've been seeing that narrative shift over time maybe partly in the result of us but mostly just things that are happening. People seeing that more can be done with finance, that finance can be a tool for change, that new models, new audiences, new consumers, new products. All of this can add up to a kind of new, I don't know, a reimagining of even capitalism. But we do it with news and stories and deals and whatnot. I'm very excited to have this conversation with all of you who are doing it in culture and film and television and in a sense, engaging really the popular culture around narrative change. So let's just really jump in. What I would love to you to do is give me an example of a narrative you're trying to disrupt perhaps or a narrative that you're trying to establish. And tell us a little bit about yourselves as well. Let me just start with you, Larry, if that's okay. That's great. Thank you, David. And I want to just correct something I said at the beginning. My co-founders and Mercy Venture Partners are Jay Brown and Jay Zayn. I'm sorry, another Jay. No worries. The Jay's were incredible partners. And what we're doing at Mercy Venture Partners is we're investing in consumer culture and positive impact. And consumer is super broadly defined. So everything from fashion to skincare and beauty, food and beverage to any kind of consumer product, transportation services, housewares, things like that and technology-enabled products. The culture is really a nod to where things are going and particularly to Gen Z where culture tends to move the fastest. So even if it's not targeting that group, we just like to know that we're really in line with culture. And the positive impact is very much all about inclusivity, sustainability, accessibility, health and wellness. So we really like to do products and services that have that positive impact element. And we're lead investors. And we came together because we really felt like they're in terms of like what's really different is that there's been kind of this sameness in venture capital. We really wanted to bring together our diverse backgrounds to really make a real difference in the ecosystem in terms of how we can identify, support and work with companies. And it's been really exciting and it's been wonderful to partner up with the Kellogg Foundation, all of our shared values as well. Terrific. So maybe disrupting the narrative of venture capital is part of the story today. Thank you. Poppy. Hello. Poppy Hanks, EDP of Macro Media. We're a production finance company and our mission in mandate is to tell stories through a multicultural lens in front of and behind the camera, which is disruptive in its own right. I think to follow the prompt, the narratives that we're very eager to disrupt is the fact that these type of projects and content doesn't travel worldwide and it's not global and will not do well overseas. And we're very eager to dive into that and prove that narrative wrong. Okay, we're gonna get deeper into that global perspective as well as some of the stories. Karla, you've helped bring us together, thank you. Yes, thank you. I'm so excited to be a part of this conversation today because this is on a topic that's near and dear to the Kellogg Foundation. I'm Karla Thompson Payton, Vice President for Program Strategy and I lead strategy development for our domestic and international portfolios. At the foundation, children are the heart of everything that we do, which is why narrative change is so incredibly important. We need to understand that children live within the context of their families and families live within the context of communities and how we approach that and how we support them creates equitable opportunities. And we're well aware that too many communities are not thriving to the best of their ability. And so for us, thinking about it both from our programmatic vantage point, but also our investment vantage point is how can we build expansive capital systems that supports creating pathways of equitable opportunity and have a commitment and an attention to advancing racial equity? I sponsor our mission-driven investment program and we have a phenomenal team of women, women of color leading our mission-driven investment portfolio. And they understand the importance of narrative change and the importance of making sure that all of our grant-making and investments tell positive stories about people of color and women. That's why we're investing in macro media. That's why we're investing in Marcy Ventures because we believe that the work that they're pursuing is a great opportunity to provide pathways for other companies. Both of these are diverse-led companies telling stories around underrepresented people, reaching markets that are often untapped, unappreciated, and often misunderstood. And so today, really the narrative change that I want to see happen is that we're challenging all of you who are watching and listening to do better to be active and to engage. Actually, that's really interesting. I wanted to pick up on that too because I think there is a kind of a dominant narrative, almost, I don't know, a little bit of despair. Maybe I'm traveling my own mood or something, but there's sometimes a sense that things are stuck and can't change. And then if you look back and you look forward, you see that things actually do change. And I wanna invite each of you again to maybe give us an example of either an investment or a project, a film project as it were, or a company that kind of challenged the narrative and took on something and made a change. So give us one or two of your favorites. Maybe Poppy, let's switch up the order and start with you. I always try not to do that, sorry. One project that I will talk about that macro, we identified it, we had it set up, it was a TV show called Raising Dion. And Raising Dion is about a single black mom who's raising her eight-year-old son and he has superpowers. And while I think there are pros and cons to it, but the show ended up being produced and distributed on Netflix. And Netflix's global reach is really phenomenal. They reach 190 countries. And I think going back to the point of global disruption, this particular show performed very well in Kenya, in Nigeria, in Germany and was able to reach places that I think we are often told that other companies that are not streaming won't put the money behind the marketing to expand. I realize television and film are different and it's a different platform, but it's just something that we're super proud of in terms of where it was able to reach when we're constantly being told there's no audience and people seeing themselves and their children. That's interesting. There's kind of this rise in futuristic or superhero films and movies, films and TV shows that feature people of color as main characters. Is that, why is that working? Why is that happening? What does that mean? I mean, I think, when you're looking at creative and commerce and you get into what are the buckets that tend to kind of travel across many lanes, I think that genre does that, horror and fantasy. Do it in a way that tend to reach audiences in a way that a straight drama won't. There's a level of escapism, there's a level of wish fulfillment and I think it's easier to pedal, it's easier to receive for some people as opposed to, we did have a lot of reach and success on just mercy as well, but that's a different type of message. It's a different and it's very direct and so it's a little, you're signing up for something different when you decide to partake in it, that makes sense. Right, right. Larry, give us one of your favorite investments or ventures or just ideas that is changing the story. Yeah, well, look, I think one of the things that we're excited about in changing the story of just in general is just being a great example that in an industry, you know, in venture capital, which really just has very little dollars allocated to women or people of color, in our portfolio, which is really where a top-forming VC were probably two thirds women and people of color. And I think that there's a lot of good reasons why investing in people who may have faced adversity who have tremendous tenacity and drive, why they're gonna succeed in the marketplace. I think people tend to just wanna invest in what they know and just wanna be safe and somehow, there's some bizarre risk bias that might be applied to people of color in particular. And it's just a false narrative. And I think that one of the great things is just showing with data and returns, just how powerful it is. And frankly, it's where culture is heading. And so I think if you look towards Gen Z and how they feel about products and services and the values and the meaning, a lot of the companies today are really very out of step with that. So I think being in touch with culture and where it's really going, that's sort of a key macro trend for us. To coin a phrase, yes. Carla. I was trying not to smile and it didn't work. So look, in terms of companies, each one has an incredible story unto itself. And I'd say what they share is they have incredible brands that people love with lots of growth drivers and values that are really in tune to where culture is headed. And it could be from like a Savage X Fendi where Rihanna is a co-founder of the business where it's really shifting the narrative around beauty and really this sort of message around beauty is very inclusive. And whether regardless of your color or your size, that it's really all about feeling great about yourself and that kind of empowerment, which is really wonderful. And actually the Savage X Fendi fashion show volume three is just out on Amazon Prime and it's a wonderful show and would really encourage you, everybody to go and watch it. It's really quite inspiring. Terrific. Actually, one of the themes emerging here, Carla, is that the commercial success of these kind of projects in these companies itself changes the narrative because it maybe puts the lie to the notion that there's not interest or there's not an audience that maybe that people have not thought deeply enough about what that audience is or where folks are at. What are you thinking about how the commercial aspect actually changes the narrative? So I mean, the stories that we hear are always grounded in structural racism, conscious and unconscious bias as being key barriers. And we see this in entrepreneur sector that we support. We see this with women and people of color who are trying to raise capital to support their businesses and grow their businesses. And it's one of the narratives that we're trying to change and we're doing it by investing in opportunities and entrepreneurship and women leadership to really say that narrative is actually false and based on premises that are grounded in racism and bias. And so for example, we have a lot of investment happening in the city of Detroit. It's the fourth largest city in America for entrepreneurship by people of color. And the businesses are struggling to support to secure the necessary financing. And we're trying to figure out why is this happening and why is it that there's a ton of business, ton of bright ideas, but there can't come to fruition. And so we've been working with JP Morgan Chase around creating a fund so that entrepreneurs of color who are experiencing barriers to accessing capital have a pathway. And for instance, Angel Paris, she's been doing decades of work as a owner, operator of PowerLight and Technical. And it's an electrical contracting firm that has revenues that gross roughly around 1.5 million. She was banking with this bank for well over 10 years. Her business has been stable for the past eight years and she went to them for a loan and they denied her. No reason why, we can't figure it out. But she was able to go to this fund that JP Morgan Chase and Kellogg created in 2015 called Entrepreneurs of Color Fund. And she was able to secure a $200,000 line of credit, which she describes as a game changer for her business. And we see the same issue in asset management. People of color and women account for two thirds of the US population yet represent only 1.3% of assets under management in the investment industry. And so we really want to change that narrative. We want to bring to light that these biases can no longer continue to be a hindrance to folks who have the spirit, the drive, the zeal, the knowledge and the know-how to be successful. And so we've been working on putting together some knowledge products. We just put out one with the McKinsey company really around creating talent pipelines within financial services and having pathways for senior leadership within these corporations because we want to see change and we want to hold people accountable. And when they tell us they don't know how to do it, we want to be able to refer them to these documents so that they can learn how to do it. And so for us, it's around hearing these stories, telling these stories, sharing them, creating opportunities, providing the supports. And so our hope is that by doing this and being out in front and supporting companies like Macro and Marci Ventures that we're going to continue to see this trend elevate and debunk all of these myths that have been circulating within the corporate sector for so long. That's interesting. There's no question that there's biases and myths. I'm kind of curious what you tell them about what replaces that, right? So when you get like, and I'm taken by the phrase that I think comes through in a lot of the documents and work I've seen the Kellogg do about racial healing. So like, what's on the other side of disrupting the negative narratives? For us, the healing aspect is seeing the common humanity in each of us and realizing the potential that we each bear and that not holding onto false history or preconceptions and misconceptions, not let that be a barrier, but come to it from a place of understanding, come to it from a place of inquiry, take the risk, reduce your risk aversion and realize that the risk will actually pay off in ways in which you've never imagined. And so we try to bring examples of that. And another publication that we put out is the business case for racial equity to really help corporate America understand that this is not something that is just a time and moment. This is the wave of the future. And if you wanna stay competitive and if you wanna have the best products and if you want to have folks come to you on a regular basis and see you as leaders in the sector, you're going to have to address the inequities within your company. You're going to have to address the inequities in the business practices that you currently hold. Poppy, you mentioned raising Dion which everybody loved and now everybody's talking about blue bayou, which I think you worked on as well. And you talk about kind of, I don't know, shifting people's assumptions about what's what. Can you tell us about how you saw that project and what you were trying to do with it? Yeah, very much so shifting conversation and thought around that film. Very proud of that one. I was one of the producers on the movie. We met with Justin, John, who is the writer, director, actor, producer of the movie, he did everything. And he very much wanted to tell a story about adoption. He was very moved by some of the inequities that were happening and at the time our current government and their policies in terms of deportation. And so he wrote a beautiful script. I think the thing that appealed to us so much, we've done several projects around immigration. And I think a lot of people think immigration has one face and one narrative. And this was a very different, and interesting we were actually making two movies at the same time around immigration and deportation. One was blue bayou and another one was called Blaspy. And Blaspy featured a Colombian family that immigrated to the US in 1999 and blue bayou was a more contemporary story, but they were, at its core there was a similar theme and a topic and a family, but two very different faces. And we felt like it was such an interesting way to shine light on a situation that a lot of people didn't know about by way of telling this family story and also open up conversation about what can be done. I think a lot of people don't know that this is going on. Again, I maintain that everyone, I think a lot of people have one face and one narrative of what deportation and immigration means on a larger scale. And so this was a way to open that up and disrupt that narrative. Sometimes you said mentioned earlier, what makes it easier for people to kind of internalize or integrate a story. And sometimes you hear the pushback, oh, if you sort of beat people over the head with a social message, that doesn't make for good movies or good TV, but yet you macro and a whole crew of other filmmakers lately have been able to kind of pull this together and weave it in in a way that people seem to be able to take in. So what are the lessons of that? What are the insights that being able to sort of be effective at narrative changing? I mean, I would like to think that we did really good character development and had a compelling story to kind of draw people in. I mean, I think there's a difference between doing a PSA and creating a narrative that people can see a version of themselves in so that they're being entertained but also being educated. I mean, I'm kind of going a little counter to what you were saying in that. We do wanna put the medicine in with the cake, right? Whatever the saying is. I think it's clear what's at the heart of this story but I think for both of those films, we really additionally were interested in that shared humanity and showing a family in both stories, families that just wanted to stay together and hoping that people will see themselves in these characters and be motivated by that. And also kind of expand their worldview with blast beat in particular, that story was about a family who was doing very well in Columbia. And most times that's narrative is coming for better opportunity in terms of making wealth. This was more focused on education and we had a character who didn't wanna come to America. And so we were trying at every turn to kind of, you think all you see is this one version and it's more complicated than that. And we very rarely get to see Latinos wealthy or doing well. It's always a very similar familiar narrative. Similarly, I don't know if there are a lot of people who have seen a Korean guy with the New Orleans accent who's the tattoo artist who's got this particular family and dealing with these issues. And so just in terms of breaking apart cliches and this constant narratives that we have been fed and like were different shades and different people and different economics and just trying to muddy that up a bit. Indeed, indeed. Larry, that actually picks up on something that you mentioned which is people have kind of obsolete or just downright wrong conceptions of what the sort of audience, consumer-based demographics of what people of colors, sort of wealth and literacy, education, discretionary spending. And you sort of made I think a portfolio out of disrupting that perception. But do you think that that, I think the new thinking is taking hold as folks see the success of some of your investments and others similar ones? Well, there's a lot of different levels where the change takes place. And I think the most important place is frankly with the consumers themselves. And what I think is underestimated in corporate America is just, and this is kind of an old theme but people just kind of disconnect from the new ways of thinking, right? It's the generational disconnects have been going on since time began. But what's really changed is that Gen Z is really the mobile first generation. So that's the group that, if you're born in 2000, you had a smartphone in high school, like your whole high school had it by that point. So it's that first digitally native generation is now literally getting out of college or in the workforce, they're really impacting everything. And I think these generations probably used to feel like maybe they were like 20 years between the thinking when people are really thinking about what's happening with their parents versus them but people who are 26, 27, 28 are surprisingly different from the people who are 18, 19, 20, 21 because they weren't a part of that first wave of the digital generation. And they have very strong values around inclusivity as an example, and they have really strong values around the meaning of products and services. So I think from a pure sort of economic and Darwinistic perspective, the companies that think that they can just keep on doing things the same old way and maintain their market share, I mean, it's just not gonna work because when you look at what they're buying and you look at what they're thinking about, it's actually quite different. And it's very difficult for older people to actually understand what those new generations are doing. And I think when you're certainly near around the entertainment industry or anything that's marketing to that younger generation, there's sort of these natural ways that you figure out how to figure out what's going on. And we actually do a ton of research in the Gen Z space as well. So I think this whole notion of like deep values, really driving things, new products and services that really fit that embrace these values, I mean, that's actually what's working there. And it's really a question of how long people take to figure it out, it's probably more up to them. And depending what business they're in, they're gonna be economically learning harsh lessons pretty quickly as this emerging economy really takes hold. I think you're right, we've got a 15 year old and all I can say is most companies don't know what's coming because he and his friends are whip smart and as you said, super attuned to all of these nuances that as you said, we have sometimes have a hard time understanding. Right, looking at thousands of images a day and you get to see it because you happen to have the gift of a young Gen Z year in your house. But somebody who doesn't have that, they might think, oh, things haven't really changed as much because people get kind of lost in their bubbles. Carl, that sort of brings up a strategy question for foundation like Kellogg, which is not even yourself, but also the portfolio companies and the partners kind of go through the process that Larry was discussing. Like how do they change their own story? Sure, so we've seen a seismic shift in the past 18 months of the public's awareness of systemic racism, the need for racial equity and for healing. And we've seen a lot of corporations and financial institutions make commitments to racial equity. I tell folks who are looking in that justice space that we need to capitalize on this moment because we don't know how long this moment is going to last, but we also need to follow that with our dollars. Companies are tracking how we're spending our resources, what we're spending our resources on. We need to make our investments work. And so when we think about how we work with the investment community, it's really around helping investors understand their risk factors and that bias and unconscious bias, race and gender, those are not real risk factors. Those are false perceptions around race and gender that are harmful and will impact their performance. What we've been trying to say is let's foster and a process that's going to lead to equity. Let's think about what we really need to evaluate to determine success and not only are we willing to challenge the corporations and the investment community that we work with, we're also challenging ourselves. What are we doing? We have an endowment. How are we managing that endowment? And I can say that over the past few years, we've tried to be really intentional around who we work with as investment managers. And I can say 26% of all of the foundations, the US assets are managed by majority diverse own firms because we believe that in order for us to challenge and expect change, we have to lead with change. And so when we think about that, we're wanting to be best in class. We wanna show that you can get a return on your investment. We wanna show that bias is actually a hindrance. And so we're committed to leading that change effort and we're making sure that we practice what we preach. You mentioned that, we don't know how long this moment will last. And often sort of a narrative shift gives rise to a kind of counter narrative or a backlash. I'd love each of you to sort of reflect a little bit whether there's a pushback you've gotten or obstacles you faced or opposition really that's a reason and how you've dealt with that. I don't know who wants to jump in. We're in the sort of everybody jump in when you want a phase of the discussion now. So who wants to take a shot at countering the backlash? I mean, I think I'll comment and just macro being macro we have been conducting ourselves as such. It's not responding to what happened this summer responding to this trend, which I hope is not a trend. I think conversely, it's more about how we're interfacing with some of the studios or the other companies and modeling for them what they should be doing and what they should be making. In that regards, I think, seeing the change, I mean, certainly over last summer, I had a lot of friends that got a lot of job offers as companies were looking to look at themselves inwardly and see what their ranks were looking like and make those changes. But I think to your point of like, it needs to be more than just hiring one executive. It needs to be a bigger change and a change at the higher levels as opposed to at the lower levels where they are not empowered. And it also needs to be a change in terms of content and really backing that up with dollars. And so I think for us that we're able to contribute to that, we are effectively leading that conversation. But it is a challenge because I think it's like at what level is that change happening? And it does need to happen at a higher level for the content to get through the way it needs to. Right, Larry, Marcy Ventures is a majority black owned and relatively unique in the VC world. That might change some perceptions just on the face of it, but I don't know, is there backlash or in some way? Is that, what are the obstacles? Sure, we raised our first fund, we had our first close back at the end of the first quarter of 19. And I don't think as we were having a conversation with people that that was somehow viewed as a positive and that were majority black owned. But I think that being an example is so powerful and by being a majority black owned VC, but that's actually an amazing performing VC and that makes people think, maybe this firm is really onto something here. I need to understand more about that. And then maybe other people who might not have thought, oh, I could be in VC, I could be a capital allocator, maybe there's some real inspiration there. And that's really meaningful and exciting to kind of be that example also. And I think we've also really been in addition to kind of the investment success with backing such great companies and how they're performing. As a VC, we've really been growing and our second fund is really gonna be among the largest, if not the largest, that's been raised by majority black owned VC as well. And that's something that, we wanna just be the best performing, but I think that example is very important. And it also helps entrepreneurs be inspired and say, hey, I really wanna work, maybe they don't feel like they know where to go or who to raise money from and we can be thought of as a great place where we're finding these really outlier entrepreneurs. That's fantastic. Terrific. And you've also brought in a number of entertainers and celebrities and musicians and singers, maybe changing a little bit of the narrative around them as investors. And saying there's more than just their cultural work in some sense, but there's also now they're putting their financial power to work. Well, absolutely. And if you look at my partners and what they co-founded and built around with Rock Nation and they're thinking around people as brands and how they've been able to actually develop incredible talent that really turns into a brand. So I think there is this thing about wealth creation and investing that is very important and core to that kind of education and that sort of inspiration. I think more people are focused on that. So we're happy to be a part of that narrative as well. Terrific. Carla, maybe we'll let you kind of take us home and pull this all together in the sense that you've got some terrific stories here and then rest of your portfolio around narrative change. I mean, what is the next kind of challenge that you want to tackle? I mean, where does this go in the next year or a couple of years? Right, so narrative change is in stagnant and we want to have folks partner with us in combating bias and false claims. We want to lead with purpose by making investments that lead to systemic change. And we're in the midst of what I think is an awakening of the intergenerational challenges that folks are ready to be front and center with to combat the status quo. We know truth telling isn't nice. We know that not everyone will agree. We know that folks will challenge us in our interpretation and our lived experiences but we also know that there's a greater population that are increasingly understanding what is required and that truth telling while it may not always be nice, it is mandatory. And it's why Marcy Ventures and Macro are helping us to hold the line around pushing narrative change as it relates to community of colors, debunking myths, demonstrating values, leading with conviction. And what I want to tell folks is that the returns are there. There's no question about that. It's whether or not you have the courage to stand up and do what you know is right and whether or not you're willing to put your biases aside and be that supportive force for the great work that we know that's been untapped for generations. And so I just want to thank Marcy Ventures, I want to thank you. I want to thank Poppy, I want to thank Larry for really coming together and telling your story and really helping us to see and bring to life what the investment has created and helped to create and just looking for many more wonderful opportunities of partnership in the future. Well, terrific. I mean, I think if you say the returns are there and all you need is courage in a sense that is a sign that the narrative is shifting. And at Impact Alpha, we always say, we say follow the money, we also say follow the talent and there's a lot of talent going towards this and I think that that will help shift the narrative going forward. So you all are part of that talent and so I want to thank each of you for joining us. And again, thanks to the Kellogg Foundation and thanks to SoCAP for having me and for bringing us together. So narrative for change, share your narrative back with us at Impact Alpha and we'll try to do our best to push it out as well. So thanks to everybody.