 I ask those members who are leaving. The chamber to please do so quickly and quietly. As the final item of business is a member's business debate on motion 6610, in the name of Fulton MacGregor, on programme promoting the benefits of shared parenting. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put, and I would ask those members who wish to speak in the debate to please press the request-to-speak buttons. I call Fulton MacGregor to open the debate up to seven minutes, please, Mr MacGregor. I am delighted to bring this member's debate on shared parenting to the chamber this evening, and I have brought this debate here this evening in my capacity as a convener for the cross-party group on shared parenting. I am pleased to see colleagues from all political parties here to in support of it, and I know that it has been another long day in the chamber where we have ran on, so I do appreciate every day staying on. The cross-party group's secretariat is run by shared parenting Scotland, and I would like to thank them for their support to the cross-party group and to members generally, and particularly John Forsyth, who is in the gallery today, and his colleague Ian Maxwell. I would like to thank them for their support in preparing today's speech as well. Since 2010, shared parenting Scotland continued to support well over 1,000 parents across the country in a number of ways, including through monthly local support meetings, authoring policy papers and other publications, and of course running a helpline. Shared parenting is a concept that is pretty straight forward. In Scotland today, it is estimated that up to 30,000 parents separate every year. Research has also indicated that up to 33 per cent of Scottish children will experience a family separation during their childhood. The notion of shared parenting asserts that the interest of the child is the most important consideration when separated parents make arrangements for their parenting. Although traditionally it has been observed that mothers are much more likely to be the main carer for their children post-separation, shared parenting Scotland has noted that the number of fathers with equal shared care is increasing. Shared parenting Scotland also help those involved with separations that have occurred with same-sex couples too. There is a wealth of research that supports the notion that a child's development is positively impacted if their separated parents are present during their upbringing. For example, the Millennium cohort study was a longitudinal cohort study of around 19,000 children across the UK, which began at the turn of the century. One of the findings of that study was that among children of separated parents, more contact with the non-resident parent was associated with better outcomes for children at the age of 11. Likewise, in a recent study commissioned by Shared Parent in Scotland, which analysed the views and experiences of young people whose parents separated at some point during their childhood, it found that almost all contributors stated that they would have liked to have seen the parent they did not live with more often during their childhood. That all backs up previous debates that I was involved in around shared parental leave in the last session. I have long argued that we need to move away from the outdated notion that the mother should be the primary caregiver and the father, the breadwinner, for want of a better term. Countries with better shared parental leave policies tend to be happier, with more gender barriers, particularly in the workplace, broken down. Those early days of parental involvement can set the groundwork for any decisions that may need to be made regarding shared parenting at a later date. In essence, it stands to reason that the more involved both parents are at the early stage, the more likely that will be sustained, whatever the circumstances might be. In short, when parents separated, it is in the best interest of the child that both parents remain present and involved during the child's development. However, I should stress that there will, of course, be times when shared parenting will not work for every family or may be detrimental to the child and that this approach should only be encouraged when appropriate. The motion that I submitted reasserted this need for separated parents to work together, if appropriate, for the benefit of their children. The motion also highlighted a lack of support for those wanting to engage in shared parenting and that public policy should be introduced to help remedy this issue. It is with these matters in mind that I want to praise a pilot programme that shared parenting Scotland has launched. The new ways for families programme is the first of its kind to be introduced in Europe. At its core, it teaches and reinforces conflict resolution skills for parents going through separation or divorce. That is a key principle as it helps separated parents with conflict management, joint decision making, respectful communication and stress alleviation. Those issues are so often the cause for the breakdown in post-separation parenting. The 12-module online course also includes three one-to-one coaching sessions delivered by experts across the therapeutic, legal and mediation disciplines, all of whom have been trained by the High Conflict Institute. The programme is completed upon the passing of a final examination and this is in order to ensure that participants have understood the content of the 12 modules. I can stand here and praise the goals of the programme, Presiding Officer and the law that is in production, but the most important question is, is it effective? Most recent figures show that just under 30 parents in Scotland have now fully completed the course, shared parenting have an honestly collected feedback and the following quotes from those who have completed the course really underline how beneficial a programme like this can be. One participant said, new ways for families benefits from being online, therefore giving a degree of flexibility to co-parents to complete their online modules when it best suits their lifestyles. Another said, really useful information, I expect I'll use what I've learned regularly as I progress through my parenting journey, have learned some really helpful techniques and tips that will help me with what I'm going through, and a final quote, my coach was beyond excellent, experienced, patient, knowledgeable, the sessions really changed how I relate to my ex-partner and his relationship with our child. Similar programmes have been introduced in North America and I've seen comparable levels of its success. A Canadian version of the programme resulted in 75% of parents maintaining and improving their joint decision making around major decisions for their children and their overall involvement with their children. The programme also resulted in significant decreases in behavioural issues and stress and anxiety levels for the children of the separated parents. Shared parenting in Scotland will launch the new ways for families online training and coaching programme in spring this year for widespread use across Scotland and that was one of the main purposes for bringing this debate to the chamber Presiding Officer, because I wanted to make sure that members are aware of it going forward for their constituents. The pilot programme was funded by the Scottish Government along with the national lottery and a trust fund. Further funding is hoped to be sourced in order to help support the upcoming spring launch. Once established, the programme fees have been projected to cover the costs of providing the online training and coaching as well as the administration costs associated with the programme. Shared parenting in Scotland have also voiced their desire to ensure that free or low-cost places will be offered to parents on benefit or low-income after the launch. I want to thank Shared Parenting Scotland for that commitment. I thank Fulton MacGregor and congratulate him on bringing a debate. He will recall the work that we did in the previous session of Parliament. I brought forward an amendment proposing a presumption of shared parenting and I think that he is absolutely right about the benefits that were seen internationally from that as well as some of the concerns that were expressed about the need to always have the rights of the child at the centre of any decision. Does he believe that through the work of this pilot and the further international evidence that we are perhaps closer to being in a position where that presumption of shared parenting may be safely introduced in a Scottish context? I thank the member for that intervention and I am glad that he took the chance to intervene because he did come up and say to me earlier that it had not been for other commitments he would have been here to participate in the debate. I know that he is a strong advocate of that and in answer to his question I think that we are moving in the right direction but I think that there is so much more to be done. I again want to thank Liam McArthur for his intervention and work in this area. To conclude, I commend Shared Parenting Scotland on their initiative in developing, sorry, piloting and launching this programme. The programme complements other such courses available in Scotland such as parenting apart sessions that are available through local family mediation organisations across the country. This three-hour group session is another resource that separated parents might consider as they transition to living apart while still wanting to remain part of their children's lives. Presiding Officer, when possible, shared parenting should be encouraged and supported. Adulthood relationships do not always work out as people might want. However, the breakdown of a relationship should never mean that the child's wellbeing must suffer. A shared parenting approach can help alleviate the stresses and anxieties that children face during a separation and is beneficial for the parents, children and wider family as a whole. I want to thank you again and thank everybody here in the chamber. I'm grateful for everybody who's going to participate tonight and I'm looking forward to hearing their contributions. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Beggar. I call Bill Kidd to be followed by Stephen Kerr up to four minutes, please, Mr Kidd. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Sorry for everybody leaving as I stood up but there you go. Thank you to Fulton MacGregor MSP for raising this debate today and for his important work as convener of the cross-party group on shared parenting. I have followed the issues that are raised by shared parenting Scotland with interest because Glasgow has the highest number of lone parent families out of all the local authority areas in the country with four in 10 families being lone parent led. 91 per cent of children in these cases are only being raised by their mother. That sadly means that a lot of children are growing up in Glasgow without a father figure if we can put it that way in their lives. Avoiding unnecessary relationship breakdown between parents and their children can be complex to navigate especially of course when there has been relationship breakdown between the parents themselves. In these situations it is helpful to have friends, family or support networks in place like neutral third-party organisations that can offer support. Often it is the outside perspective of an organisation like shared parenting Scotland that can facilitate mediation or meeting in neutral areas where a new way forward can be established. That is incredibly important as the impact of having no father or mother in the home can be devastating for children. Sadly in the UK 76 per cent of children and young people in custody grew up in homes without a father. We also know that there are many other poor statistical outcomes involving emotional and behaviour problems, neglect, teen pregnancy, alcohol and substance abuse and poor school performance when there is parental breakdown in the home. Programs that end cycles of the withdrawal of fathers particularly as that is the majority from their families are absolutely pivotal in improving outcomes for children. Wherever possible joint parenting must be at the heart of shared parenting. I would like to highlight a unique initiative taking place in America which is working to combat generational cycles of fatherless homes and criminalisation of children growing up without a father. This initiative is run by a Christian organisation, God Behind Bars, where they work to reunify incarcerated parents with their children so that new memories can be created and relationships built. One in four children over 18.4 million children in the USA are growing up in homes without a father present. As is the case in Scotland, these children are statistically more likely to live in poverty and potentially end up in prison. Statistically 85 per cent of the children in the USA who have a parent incarcerated will end up in prison. The reunification initiative is aimed at combating the generational cycles of incarceration and fatherless homes. Christmas they run the All Is Bright project, where the dads and moms pick out and wrap five or so presents that have been bought by volunteers for each child they have. They also get a new outfit to wear for the day so they do not have to wear prison clothing. They then enjoy a Christmas celebration with their full family, a full Christmas meal, gingerbread house building and games for their children for the whole day. That gives lasting positive memories for little boys and girls, giving their parents an environment where they can build relationships with their children again and an opportunity to start again. As one of the dads said, let me explain something to you. This is the true definition of what hope is. Look at all of what you see, what all these people give us. This is the only definition of hope that any of us need to see. For guys like us who have been down for such a long time, this is it. This kind of work, which puts restoration and transformation at the heart of parenting, is tremendous in its ability to restore relationships and break cycles of fatherless homes. I welcome initiatives like this and share parenting models, which value the role of both parents. As we do more to support this change here in Parliament, we will hopefully begin to see a growing positive impact on social outcomes for children reunified with their fathers and mothers both in their lives. Parenting is likely to be the most important role that many of us will ever have in life, and I have no hesitation in supporting any initiative, whether public or private, to maintain and strengthen the role of parents and the central place of the family as the fundamental unit of society. It is a wonderful gift and blessing to be a parent, to be able to see your child grow and develop new skills and ultimately, wherever it is possible, become self-sufficient. It fills you as a parent with no small measure of feeling of pride in them, something that is actually quite difficult to explain. Make no mistake, a child needs the living example of parents, as has been said by Bill Kidd. No effort should be spared to encourage separated parents to work together for the good of their children. The enduring love of a family is like nothing else in all the world, and it is a huge responsibility to be a parent. You do not get any formal training for one of the greatest roles that you might ever be called upon to play. In those first few years of life, a tiny, helpless person who is wholly dependent on you enters your life. Your mindset must reframe around their needs and make no mistake. It can sometimes feel overwhelming. I know that feeling. I think that every parent does, and when you have more than one child having time and money to send them to all the activities that they become involved with and help them in their schoolwork and give them the love and support that they need is itself a full-time job. Those responsibilities come at a point in life, usually, when both time and money feel like scarce resources. It is quite a job of co-ordination, so every parent who is honest with themselves will tell of times when they feel overwhelmed when the pressure is on and it feels like there is nowhere to turn. What can we do to help? What can we do as parliamentarians to support and provide support to parents in these situations? Is it to remove responsibility, to transfer children's upbringing to an agency or a system determined by a faceless bureaucratic state? Is it to empower parents, as we have been hearing, including supporting separated parents, and to let them fulfil the responsibilities that they have for their child that will make their children feel like the gift they are? The answer is clear, as has been said by previous speakers. It is to empower parents, and every public policy and every piece of proposed legislation should be made to pass the test of family friendliness. Does that support the family? Children must never feel that they are a burden to their parents when they are growing up, if they do. If they do, they will likely experience issues of personal confidence, which will impact on their relationships and the direction of the course of their lives. Every effort that we make to support good parenting—again, as has been highlighted by Fulton MacGregor's motion—is, to me, a solid gold social good. Families in Scotland are gloriously diverse. Every family is unique, and there are circumstances that are fashioned around the people who are in them. I will give way. I thank the member for giving way, and I am enjoying his speech. Mr Kerr mentioned good parenting. As a father of two, there is no such thing as perfect parenting. In the context of this book, we should all accept that we are allowed to make mistakes and that it is not a clear black-and-white issue. We can be the best parents. We seek to be, but there is no such thing as perfect parenting. I completely agree with Bob Doris. It is a work in progress, and we are learning all the time from our children—indeed, in my case, our grandchildren—about how to be a better parent and grandparent. In principle, any status attempt to categorise families or to homogenise families is at odds with the reality of family life in all its varieties. A Government that believes that the answer to everything is to increase its own powers is a Government that is in denial of the nature of the root causes of many of the problems that we face as a society. When more Government is the answer, it is always worth looking to see if it was not the Government that caused the problem in the first place. We must recognise that a one-size-fits-all out-of-the-box solution, which often the state reaches for, rarely works. We must not always reach for the power of the state as if it was the only responsible available to us, because it is, as has been illustrated by that motion. It is why the Scottish Conservatives reject the idea of the state empowering itself at the expense of parents. It is not an ideological position. It is a position that acknowledges that love is the key ingredient in all of our lives, but especially in the lives of children. Ideally, love is added through a family. The family is best supported when the state is working to enable parents and lets families live their lives and pursue happiness in their own way. I now call Roderick Grant, as we follow up by Jeremy Balfour, up to four minutes. I want to congratulate Fulton MacGregor for securing this debate. I also want to acknowledge like him the work of shared parents in Scotland who help parents to work together, despite their differences, to share the care and responsibility of their children and to provide them with the stability that they require. It is inevitable that children face difficulty when their parents part, and there can be a great deal of animosity between parents when a relationship breaks down. The children can feel that they are being pulled in different directions because of this. Therefore, sensitive handling can ease the distress and reassure young people. It is therefore important to support parents to make the right decisions for their children and to help them to reach amicable solutions that put their children first. We have all seen cases where parents have put aside their personal hurt and anger to ensure that the children's relationship with the other parent continues. We need services to recognise the importance of shared parenting. Things like access to housing. Both parents need to have access to adequate housing to provide a home for their child. Too often we see the mother being given access to adequate housing while the father is not housed adequately to allow the children to come and live with him if they are shared parenting. In the majority of cases, both parents being involved in a child's life and future is the best outcome for that child. However, there are exceptions. I am very clear that abusive parents should not have automatic rights of access to their children. Far too often we see family courts being used to continue to perpetrate domestic abuse by one parent to the other. I have many cases where abusive fathers use access to their children to identify where the mother is living in order that they may continue that physical abuse. That is absolutely unacceptable. Neither is it acceptable to place the onus on the child to keep that information secret. I also have constituency cases where abusive fathers use the system to continue control even where there is no physical abuse present. They make arrangements to see the child only to cancel at the last minute. If they become aware that their ex-partner is doing something else while they have the child, they cancel the arrangement or return the child early in order to scupper those plans and exercise their continuing control over their ex-partner. Parents who use their children as weapons should not have access to those children. Neither should parents have access to their children when they cause damage in an abusive relationship. We know that the life chances of children who are brought up in abusive households are severely impacted. It impacts on their ability to learn, on their self-esteem, which goes on to impact on significant aspects of their lives. Those problems are a direct result of domestic abuse. Abusive parents should not have access to children until they can prove that they are no longer abusive and that the well-being of their children comes first. I hope that the Minister will address those concerns and advise how she will prevent abusive parents from continuing to damage their lives of young people even when that relationship has broken up. I would like to see a system where that parent goes through a process of training and acknowledgement of their wrongdoing, a process that ensures that they will no longer continue to perpetrate abuse, a process that they must complete before they can have access to their child. That way we protect young people for far too long. I have seen in my casework the impact of domestic abuse on families and how children are abused and used in that situation. We should not allow it to happen. I look forward to a day where the family court no longer allows themselves to be used as a weapon in domestic abuse cases. I am happy to speak during this member's debate on an important subject that I believe deserves more consideration than often gets. I first of all thank Fulton MacGregor for securing time for his debate. It has been my pleasure to sit on the cross-party group for said parenting. I look forward to continuing the important discussions that take place in that forum. I also wholeheartedly agree with the previous speaker and hope that the minister will address the comments that she made there a few moments ago. Our children deserve to be brought up in a safe, loving and supportive environment, regardless of who they are or where they come from. Without that, their opportunities in life can be severely limited. As my good friend Stephen Kerr said, parenting is a great gift. I can say from personal experience that children can bring a lot of joy into a home. That will certainly be my experience with my twin girls. However, it is also a huge responsibility. It requires us to put others before ourselves and sacrifice for their sake. We often have to put our child's best interests before our own comfort or preference, and that extends to life after family breakdown or appearance separation. There is now a substantial body of research that underlines the benefits of said parenting for children whose parents no longer live together. Outcomes are significantly better for those who have regular contact with both parents, including the one who no longer lives in the home. We are lawmakers, and we should be doing everything that we can do to provide incentives for parents to work together for the benefit of their child. We must support all efforts to support shared parenting, be it from Governments or third sex organisations to ensure that children are being brought up in the best environment possible. That is why I am pleased to support today's motion and praise of shared parenting Scotland for piloting the new ways for families programme, which endeavours to give parents the skills that they need to manage their shared parenting responsibilities. Valuable skills such as emotional management and behaviour to cool things down, to help dialogue between parents and age decisions to be made outside a court. I know from personal experiences being a solicitor and being brought up by a father who did family law all his life, that court is the last place that you want to have to decide on parenting skills and who gets parenting rights. I am pleased that a number of constituents have contacted me regarding the scheme, whose first-hand experience with the course is very complementary of the service. They have told me that it has helped dealing with the situation without letting emotions run high in addition to teaching them the benefits of healing themselves. They describe the coaches as compassionate, brutally honest and attentive. Deputy Presiding Officer, I want to thank again shared parenting Scotland for the real positive difference that they have made in the life of my constituents and others across Scotland and wish for them continued success in the future. I ensure that my children receive the support and nurture that they require and deserve to be fundamental priority for this Parliament. I hope that we can continue to support the valuable work that is going forward. Thank you, Mr Balfour. I now call Bob Doris, who will be the last speaker before I ask the minister to respond up to four minutes. Presiding Officer, I thank you for forwarding the right to speak. I had not intended to speak, but it is a higher quality debate and I want to play my part within those discussions. I start by congratulating Fulton MacGregor, who has been a committee champion on shared parenting issues within his time in this Parliament. That is to commend you on your work in doing that, Fulton. I can also welcome the positivity and dedication of shared parenting Scotland to engage with the legislative process in this place constructively and positively and to engage openly about how to nurture and develop a child's relationship with both parents when there has been a relationship breakdown between those parents, and that is vitally important. As MSPs, we often only hear of parenting issues when things go badly wrong. I think that Rhoda Grant was loading to some of that within her contribution. We will have examples of controlling coercive behaviour, domestic abuse and, of course, being used as a tool and a lever and a power control within the embers of a dying relationship between parents. I know from my experience how contact centres have not been of a required standard, and I am pleased that they will now be regulated, but the Scottish Government and those preparing reports within contact centres back to family courts will now have the skillset that they should have always had in doing that to make informed decisions in relation to childcare orders, and I am pleased to work in partnership with the Government in relation to that. We should say clearly that, in all the examples that I gave, it is not always but predominantly men who have been controlling and coercive behaviour, predominantly but not always men who are involved in domestic abuse and abusing the court system. However, we cannot demonise men. Most dads are great dads, and they are good fathers, and they want to be better fathers. We have to make sure that the structures that we have in society are there for dads as well as mums, but we should put on record that all those negative issues that we talk about impact women on society. I would not do my job properly as a constituency MSP if I did not put that on record. Positive parenting before and after a special breakdown is vital and important. Who was to say, mum and dad, that we are doing a great job or a skilled job in bringing their children up before the relationship breakdown is a difficult job as we have heard, made even more difficult with a relationship breakdown? It is positive parenting before and after a relationship breakdown in new ways for families programmes. It is an innovative approach after that relationship breakdown in relation to that. I wish it every success, and I think that Fulton MacGregor put some of those successes on record, and I look forward to hearing more about that. I was reluctant to intervene because it is quite an awkward thing to intervene on, but I wonder whether the member agrees with me that part of the issue that we are talking about here comes back to something that I said in the debate about. It is a societal issue in terms of whether there is an expectation that mothers, as I said about parental leave, do the main caring, and when people separate, it is the mother who does all the caring. That is a barrier to gender equality. Does the member agree with that? We need a societal and a cultural change around that, and I agree with what Stephen Kerr said that it should not all be about Governments intervening? I thank Fulton MacGregor for that intervention, and I absolutely agree with that. It might be in relation to that. It is an equalities issue, so we have to make sure that dads are doing a sheer parenting role whilst they are still within that relationship. Some of the issues that we have to find is that dads do not pull their weight within the relationship prior to a breakdown. You can understand the indignation of some mums when dads then demand all the rights that they were not exercising before that relationship broke down. You can get the idea of tensions, which is why I think that I am taking those tensions out with that in new ways for families programme as an innovative way. I am dealing with some of that. I want to talk a little bit about how we make sure that we empower dads irrespective of whether there is a relationship breakdown or otherwise. We know very well dads rocks, who are good friends of this Parliament and what they do, but I also hope that that Glasgow North and North Lanarkshire constituency has a dads group. I am also reminded that dads sometimes feel alienated from anti-natal classes within the NHS. I was lucky enough that I could pay for an NCT 2D class in a small group interactive real quality. What does sheer parenting look like for mum and dad? Maybe that is the kind of thing that all parents, when they are starting a family, should be aware of, rather than waiting to talk about sheer parenting when relationships inevitably break up in some circumstances. It is really innovative work from sheer parenting Scotland. I am really pleased that Fulton MacGregor has brought that to the chamber today, but I would really like to hear more about the positive work that we can do before relationships go wrong, because that will empower people to do the right thing once relationships fragment. I now call on the minister, Elena Whitham, to respond to the debate up to seven minutes. I congratulate Fulton MacGregor on securing this important debate, which is actually my first chance as a minister to respond to a debate. What a wonderful debate to do that. That debate is looked at fresh perspectives and initiatives on an area that can often be difficult and challenging. How to bring up children when separating parents do not agree. The debate has raised a number of issues about parents who separate, including support for the children involved and support for the parents. It is in our collective best interest that the rights of children are seen as power mount, and those rights are hugely important when parents do separate. The Scottish Government is pleased to work with Shared Parenting Scotland, and I welcome members to the chamber today. In this financial year, we have provided financial support to them from the children and families portfolio and the justice portfolio. Our total financial support in 2022-23 for Shared Parenting Scotland is 77,574, including some money towards supporting the new ways of families programme mentioned in the motion in the debate. Following my recent appointment as a minister for community safety, I will be meeting with Shared Parenting Scotland on 2 February to learn more about their work and future plans. I am already aware of the valuable work that they carry out through their helpline, their publications, their training, their group meetings, their WhatsApp groups, which is a fantastic thing to allow parents to be able to access them at any of the time that they need. In all of this work support separating parents through what is a stressful, emotional and difficult time. Research published by the Scottish Government notes that the stress that separating parents are going through and the stress and trauma that are regularly raised in the correspondence that we receive from parents going through this situation. This stress and trauma can of course impact on how the parents speak to their children about what is happening and in any disputes or disagreements between separating parents and how to bring up their children, the welfare of the children has to be paramount. The underlying principle is the key in the legislation of the Children's Scotland Act 1995. We need to follow that principle when disputes or disagreements between separating parents about bringing up their children are being resolved outside of courts as well as within the court system. The research carried out by Jamie Wark, who is a Robertson scholar, which is mentioned in the motion, raises how best to support children when parents separate. I congratulate him on carrying out this research and on raising this very important point. The research shows that the separation of parents can have a direct impact on an individual's perception of relationships in their own life, so there can be longer lasting generational impacts as we have heard from members this evening. The Scottish Government has recognised that having separated parents can be one of the adverse childhood experiences or ACEs that we talk about. Jamie Wark's research shows that children may not always have enough support and advice when their parents are separated. Belk had also outlined how this trauma can have lasting effects in his very eloquent contribution. When we think about parents that are apart, especially if incarceration is involved, we need to remember the generational impact that that can have. The Scottish Government plans to consult in 2023 on how best to implement the provisions of the Children's Scotland Act 2020 on child advocacy services. We will include in that consultation some discussion on how best to support children when parents separate whilst recognising that parents, along with other trusted family members, will always be the key source of information for their children. I think that that speaks to some of what Stephen Kerr and others have mentioned. We need, of course, to make it as easy as possible for parents to communicate with their children. One of the aims of the New Ways for Families project, which Fulton has mentioned in his motion and members also, is to make family separation less traumatic and stressful for parents and their children. The aim of the project is to provide and enhance skills in a range of areas such as managing emotions, flexible thinking, moderating behaviour and developing empathy and respect, with the aim to provide parents with the skills and insight to find solutions and to put their children first, which is not always easy at a time when resilience is low and positions can become really entrenched. As Stephen Kerr pointed out rightly, as parents, we do not get a manual when our children are born and this project helps to equip parents in the greatest of endeavours. I think that the skills are transferred into lots of other things within their lives as well, so those skills are really important. The evaluation that North America has, as Fulton mentioned, showed positive results for the New Ways for Families. I am aware that initial feedback from parents who have gone through the pilot in Scotland has also been positive. We have heard some of those experiences brought to life today by Derby, a Balfour's contribution of his constituent and Fulton himself when he has quoted some of the parents who have gone through the pilot. Clearly, the full evaluation of the Scottish pilot is crucial to enable both funders and shared parents in Scotland to consider next steps in this area. I welcome to your parent in Scotland's commitment to evaluate the pilot and look forward to hearing its final results. It will be interesting to see whether that mirror the positives that we have heard from the evaluation of the project in Medicine, Heart and Canada. The reduction in children's experiences of stress and anxiety and stomach aches and headaches and them acting out. I am keen to see that evaluation as it goes forward. The Scottish Government will continue to work with shared parents in Scotland, Scottish Women's Aid, children's organisations and others to improve our family justice system and where possible to encourage resolution of disputes outside of court. I was struck by Rhoda Grant's contribution for a number of reasons, but one of the first ones was roundabout the surrounding housing issues. It took me back to 2005 when I was proactively supporting my ex-husband to secure housing as we agreed to fully share the parenting of our son. A lot of people do not recognise that that is for the benefit of the children. At the time, people thought that it was a bit strange that I was doing that. We want to build consensus in this Parliament and among key stakeholders on how to support parents and children during separation and how disputes should be dealt with. There may well be differing views and perspectives, but there will always be common ground too in matters such as welfare of children and the reduction of stress and trauma. It is also important to emphasise that we will always support both parents to be fully involved in a child's life where it is safe. As a former women's aid worker, I am pleased that Shared Parent in Scotland's report recognises where a history of domestic abuse is that play this must be fully considered and contact should not be used to further and continue abuse at any point in the system. I take on board Rhoda Grant's concerns and Bob Doris's as well in this area. It is something that I will continue to ensure is forefront in our considerations going forward. In conclusion, the motion and this debate raised some interesting questions. Importantly, we have debated some solutions too. I really look forward to seeing the evaluation of the new ways for parenting's pilot. I can assure the chamber that we will discuss with Shared Parent in Scotland the outcomes of the evaluation and their thoughts on how to best take new ways of Scotland for families forward in Scotland. I think that also the whole concept of how we look at society as a whole is something that we have to look at cross-sector and all the different portfolios about where families can actually be supported to ensure that children thrive in an environment where everybody has their best welfare at heart. Thank you. Thank you minister. That concludes the debate and I close this meeting.