 Okay, it looks like we're live All right, so hi guys Today we have Bobby here with us from Bobby's perspective. He's an ex vegan who was vegan for four years He's recently made the switch to eating animal products again Since making the switch. He's been pretty vocal about the damage the vegan diet has caused him He advocates for no labels approach when it comes to diet, which I think is fantastic And I believe right now. He's doing 30 days of carnivore. So, um, yeah Why don't you introduce yourself Bobby and tell us about your journey your experience all that good stuff? yeah, first of all, thanks for having me and Apologies to the viewers that might not be able to participate in this interview because of my delay I'm a bit jet-lagged just flew all to France on that note I have to say that in France we have beautiful grass-fed beef So it's an amazing place to do the carnivore diet or to do the carnivore Experiment rather nice. I've been at it for almost 30 days now So I'm doing it for 30 days after that. I'm planning an epic cheat meal with croissants and all of that good stuff Reloading on those cups, but as for right now. Yes 30 days of carnivore after me being a vegan for pretty much four years exactly and Yeah, should I go through my side effects? How that came about or how I got into veganism case Let's how you got into it first Okay, so my background is that pretty much everybody in my family is either a hunter or a butcher so therefore I saw animals slaughter from a very very young age and I would even say that I was exposed to it a little bit too early. So as a kid, I couldn't really handle it Obviously and when I saw the pigs or the goats getting slaughtered. I was crying as a kid so I was never okay with killing animals and Later on when my cousins became hunters as well. I just passed on that. I went to school. I completely got out of that venue if you will and Yeah, later on in life. I found out about vegetarianism veganism through Spiritual practices the Hindus have been vegetarian what not and I got interested in it But I was bodybuilding at that time and therefore I had no option to become vegetarian because I knew already that for Building muscle you actually need meat, right? Yeah, and yeah as a vegan I thought that is all misconception and you can build it with plants, but that's a topic for another day So yeah as a bodybuilder I obviously wasn't vegan I was eating meat six seven times per day and then after a while whilst confronting myself with that information quote-unquote and educating myself I found out that hey you can do it vegan, right and For me it was actually a relief because I could align my own personal values of not harming animals with my Sport pursuits right I could combine it and everybody wins. I thought wow this is amazing, right? Nobody dies. I still can get jacked amazing. Yeah, so come in from a sport background I made sure that everything is adjusted for so therefore when people say yeah, you didn't do it, right? Yeah, sorry guys I have to disappoint you because I've been a personal trainer since 2005 I've been creating meal plans and whatnot and hence I know exactly what is needed for bodybuilding pursuits Hence the protein was adjusted. I was eating at least two grams per body weight Kilo gram right the carbohydrates stayed the same the fat intake stayed the same Everything was optimized for my weight. Yeah, nevertheless Still lost 10 kilograms pretty much over the course of couple of weeks. So I figured yeah, so I figured yeah maybe it is because of Me cleansing out right or detoxing or whatever the body getting adapted No worries I'm just gonna increase the calories because that's what the vegan say right you just have to eat enough calories Okay, good adjust the calories again eight three hundred more calories five hundred more calories six hundred more calories in forms of protein In forms of carbohydrates Carp up. That was the slogan back then Yeah, nothing worked right nothing worked So I still felt pretty good, but out of a sudden intuitively I started picking up running I started picking up running and I never was into running I wasn't to lifting weights into boxing into jujitsu stuff like that I didn't really enjoy the cardio sessions, but as a vegan I felt yeah, that feels Natural to me, right? So I started running started doing a bit of yoga still at the weights But somehow the weights didn't appeal at all anymore So the weights I always felt weak when I was in the gym would be in the gym I would feel frustrated because my performance would just decline and Again, I wasn't under eating at all. I have to say that because otherwise vegans will blame me again So again performance is decreasing slowly, but surely losing more weight and then the real side effects Kicked in at the two-year mark, I would say so should I proceed with the side effects here? Yeah Did you gain any muscle when you were vegan like what for the first year? Was it working for you or it was just a slow decline? Yeah, that's a good question see for all the people out there that will say yeah, but Bobby you looked good as a vegan You were building muscle as a vegan guys I had a short period where I tried out different approaches to vegans and I know the vegans again They will love this right because then they can point the finger and say yeah, you've been raw vegan You've been fruitarian and what yes, I tried it out But only because the whole foods approach failed me I didn't feel good on the whole foods approach. So I tried it out right fruitarian raw veganism to see what will do the job Nothing did and needless to say on the raw vegan and fruitarian diet. I lost even more weight, right? So after that period. Yes, I Rebuilt some muscle. I was chugging down protein shakes plant protein shakes, right at least three per day I was increasing the protein intake through tofu and tempeh and beans and whatnot My digestion wasn't happy about that choice But yes, I was able to Rebuild muscle was I ever bigger as a vegan than I was as a meat eater? No Absolutely not 100% not but there was a rebuilding effect. They call it the memory effect Right the memory effect once you've been there you can get there again a bit quicker So it is much much easier to rebuild something than to go from scratch So no, I didn't build my muscle per se on a vegan diet, but rebuild it. Yeah, okay Yeah, so why don't you talk about some of the negative side effects you started experiencing? Yeah with pleasure, but it's gonna be a long list Yeah Yeah, so as I said in the beginning I felt really good I have to say that especially in the beginning of veganism I felt more energetic and everything it was amazing and because I came from a bodybuilding perspective I already ate clean quote-unquote right rice and chicken and broccoli basically So I didn't eat any junk food hence the argument that you cleared up your diet before veganism That didn't apply to my case and hence I said wow, there's really something to veganism right veganism works And as drew he was on your podcast as well likes to say that is the honeymoon phase in the beginning You know, it's like a relationship veganism and I call her vegana It's really really nice to you really good to you But after a while she becomes abusive and you cling on to the relationship, right? Yeah, so anyways after two years constant energy loss constantly weak Absolutely horrible performance in the gym paired with depression depression symptoms Just overall always in a bad mood Cranky as well and usually I would get cranky like that Maybe in the last couple of weeks of a brutal cut right when you're really dieting in the caloric deficit Maybe in the last two weeks or so, but then it is already Yeah, something that you will know will happen because you're used to it by Bodybuilding standards that you will get a bit cranky with bodybuilding that is normal with veganism on the other hand I was basically in that mood all the time no matter how much I ate So then another one which was absolutely terrible for me because I always had good teeth was dental decline So my teeth became super sensitive super sensitive. I couldn't drink anything hot. I couldn't drink anything cold I couldn't even eat any fruits anymore. So I don't know how to Apply the daily dozen of dr. Greger with Sensitive teeth didn't work out So, yeah dental decay, then I had to How many how many was it? Let me think here we're on about six cavities or so out of nowhere that I had to treat Did you have any cavities before or no nothing that was zero Nothing my teeth were always a okay And yeah dental cavities root canal treatments I remember here when I was in Bangkok three times per week I would go to the dentist and yeah do root canal treatments. That was a happy time Fun a lot of fun after work go to the dentist and sit there for Four or five hours. That was great Not and yeah, what else libido loss? Absolutely horrendous. I talked about that very openly on my channel as well Just no interest in sex or whatsoever I remember those days where I would sit in bed and rather watch series and eat vegan Serial crackers and whatnot. It was amazing. I felt essentially honestly now thinking about it I felt like a 12 year old now bullshit as a 12 year old. I had a better libido. So like a six year old Yeah back at home watching cartoons and eating cereals absolutely emaciated Yeah, other than that tremendous injuries. My body was very very fragile. So I tore my atl tore my biceps ripped my hamstring apart hernia Everything like literally any sport injury that you can imagine happen to me And now again the vegans like to say that that happens to anybody So if you are into sports injuries happen Yeah, I would agree injuries happen in sport, but there is a big difference between vegans and non vegans And that is the healing So yes, sure it can happen But meat eaters heal up and vegans don't as a vegan. I was waiting Years essentially for my injuries to heal and they never would After the reintroduction of animal foods Everything starts to regenerate and to clear up. It's absolutely amazing Yeah, so that is about it. I believe. Oh, no Not true. I forgot the biggest one digestion Of course Yeah digestion when I was in Thailand. I was blaming it on the water supply Because when you are a vegan and I was an ethical vegan on that note for the viewers that don't know You blame anything else Everything else is to be blamed but not veganism, right? Maybe it is you maybe you have some issue. Maybe it is the environment So I said it must be the Bangkok water supply because the hygiene in Thailand is not that great It must be the water down there Yeah, but that didn't explain why I had to go to the toilet 16 times per day 16 16 times per day. Yeah, as my girlfriend. I was a pleasure to be around I remember working 8 a.m And I would get up around about 7 before leaving the house. I would go to the toilet five times five times That was was fun. Absolutely fun. And that was already on a low footmap vegan diet That was already after reducing the fiber and eating predominantly white rice Great great times. So digestion was absolutely horrible digestion Elimination gassy all day I had pretty much every side effect in the book. I would say if I forgot something I will tell you later on but those were the main ones Wow, that's crazy. Okay, so um, let's get into why you started Eating animal products again. I know you said you were an ethical vegan. So Yeah, right what convinced you Yeah, what convinced me that's actually A deep subject. I'm trying to Do it as short as I can the thing is this Back in the day when I was still eating meat and I was still bodybuilding The only reason why I considered vegetarianism or veganism was due to the exposure to psychedelic plant medicines I traveled to Peru as well to the amazon jungle And I was in contact with shamans I was really interested in those ancient traditions because I found out that those traditions were around longer than The judo-christian religions and whatnot. So that has been around for millennia and I got interested in it because I personally had a Very very severe illness back in the day That would be too much to go into here. I'm really trying to Either way, I had a really really hard Not only injury but infection back in the day. That was 2011 and no doctor can could cure me And because that was the case I had to look into alternative medicines back then so I looked into acupuncture into Basically everything right cleansing healing detoxing Ancient medicine chinese medicine and the only thing that helped me back in those days were psychedelic mushrooms So overnight those things cured my symptoms But as I said, I'm going to keep it short here for anybody that is interested They can head over to my channel and check out my story on mushrooms either way I have a really really intimate relationship if you will with psychedelic mushrooms. They were always my go-to in terms of healing and cleansing So when I was a vegan for four years, I couldn't listen to anybody So people were telling me bro. Just try out some fish. I'm like, no No chance for my experimentation here. No being should die. Right. That was really my Perspective and even my girlfriend was suffering and she wanted to try fish before me So she was begging me basically because I was bobby's perspective right the vegan channel and she would ask me Yeah, how about I just try a little bit of salmon? I'm like, why don't you try flexi? Right. Why don't you try dha and epa tablets? I was a total asshole looking back to it. I feel so sorry for my girlfriend It's insane. Yeah, anyways So I couldn't accept that right and for me it was so out of the realm of possibilities to try out animal products Because there is a being suffering. You don't just experiment on it So I set myself the premise because I was already suffering One and a half years before I stopped basically It was already a moment in time where I said I have to stop veganism and then I gave myself a deadline and I said, okay right now I feel terrible but because I am an ethical vegan and I never talked about this before so this could be interesting for vegans with an open mind One and a half years before stopping veganism I said to myself I feel terrible. I am suffering But I'm gonna give this thing here a fair shot. I'm gonna go to the doctors I'm gonna do the blood test. I'm gonna do the sebo test I'm gonna adjust everything in my diet that I can adjust and I'm gonna supplement Everything that I can supplement. I'm gonna do all of those things that a good vegan does before I consider quitting I give myself one year's time I did it The one year was a absolute waste of time because nothing happened It got worse and worse and worse and I still stuck with it half a year longer I did it one and a half years before considering it. So therefore what made the shift? I was in chang rai And from there I went to pie a little village in Thailand And I participated in their little mushroom festivities here And I had another psychedelic experience And in that psychedelic experience for people that don't know what I'm talking about without getting to whoo here It is a very introspective Very introspective experience where you can really look into your subconscious if you will right? It doesn't matter if it is real hallucination the experience itself can teach you valuable lessons at least that is my perspective In that experience I had the vision if you will of eating eggs again, right ethical eggs from happy chickens in thailand So I had to consider it because that mushroom Helped me out a lot back in the day in terms of physical healing I trusted it, but I couldn't make myself do it It took me around about two more months to consider this message And I was coming back and coming back and coming back and coming back. I was always thinking back to those times And after yeah two more months or so I'm sitting there My teeth are so inflamed that my whole head. I have a migraine for a week straight, right? I'm sitting there. I have a migraine for a week straight I can't go to the gym anymore. I'm Supremely depressed I'm a total drag to be around obviously. I just had my bowel movement number 37 And I say to myself, okay, I can't do this anymore. Fuck it. I can't do it anymore. Really. This has been too much It's long enough. I have to do something about it So I went out and I got ethical eggs sourced from a farm in changrai everything as ethical as possible cruelty free and whatnot And yeah, I ate one egg I remember I hated it because I was so indoctrinated. I was eating that egg like so boiled And I was telling myself how primitive it is and we as humans we evolved already We should just take a supplement or eat chia seeds Ah and on that note again because I already know the defense mechanisms of the vegans I was eating chia seeds at that moment And I replaced the chia seeds with one egg even that one egg was accounted for Right. I'm really analytical when it comes down to my food Everything was accounted for I replaced the calories. I didn't eat more calories. No, I didn't eat more fat I didn't eat anything more nor not more protein or anything on those lines Everything was accounted for so anyways, right getting that out of the way eating the egg and I went through that experience as I said Totally biased and I was telling myself. It's not good. It doesn't work and listen that Nevertheless, I didn't feel much at first I went to bed two hours later And I know that story from drew as well And from tim sheaf and from so many others and I know it sounds Crazy ridiculous whatever, but it's the truth for the first time. I wake up with a humongous boner That's it. That's what happened. Sorry guys. I know that vegans are jealous on our sex drive as meat eaters But this is what happens really not faking it So still I couldn't make myself continue with that experiment and I stopped for a while, right? So it was a back and forth. So after three days, then I felt terrible again That egg kept me going for three days, right? I felt all right for three days. It was just one egg I felt all right. My mood was lifted up, you know for three days And I said to myself That is the relief because now I know that eggs don't work Yeah, that was my psychology back in the day insane So I said now I know it, you know the mental barrier is out It was just a test so to speak to see if I really need it and I don't so that is great It's out of the window now. I don't have to experiment any further. Yeah, great But after three days, I started getting depressed again libido loss again. Absolutely everything was wrecked On that note, I want to say to all of those Chigans, right the fake vegans As a four-year ethical vegan when you never consume animal products, you really see the power of animal products those people that claim to be vegan And consume animal products Occasionally behind closed doors, right behind the scenes and still claim veganism is the way to go guys You are maintaining your health through those little bits and pieces of animal products Please I'm not going to be aggressive today. I'm not going to be angry today. I'm in a good mood. Please Please for the love of god, don't promote veganism But promote plant-based diets with animal products because Once you push this agenda if you will Yeah, at some point we won't have any eggs and meat for you to cheat with any longer, right? If you really see what is going on right now lab grown meat plant-based options It is taking over the world and if you want to cheat with your little bits and pieces of eggs and fish Please do not promote veganism because you are sustaining yourself with those very animal products So many people reach out to me I don't want to go on a rant, but so many people reach out and tell me Bobby, what are you talking about? I've been vegan for 10 years. I feel great And when I ask them they really tell me Yeah, so what if I had a little bit of fish a little bit of eggs in those 10 years? I am mainly plant-based Yeah, then please tell the people that you're plant-based and don't tell them that you're vegan is absolutely ridiculous It's a disservice to humanity But anyways, so as I said three days felt great after that felt terrible again and it took me I think one more month before considering finally to really give it a go then Give it a go with the eggs. Give it a go with fish And from there Kate. I can tell you that every single animal product that I reintroduced Improved my health tremendously. I really see that every single animal product has its place Dairy out of all things. Oh my god made my digestion Absolutely perfect overnight and I always thought I'm gonna have Lactose intolerance or whatnot dairy was the best for digestion Fish on the other hand was great for energy Red meat was great for strength. There's always an attribute to an animal food. So absolutely amazing Yeah, that is basically the story in nut shell took me ages took me way too long If I could change anything about it, there's actually the slogan in the vegan community and they say If there's anything that I regret about Going vegan. It's not doing it sooner Right Yeah, and my slogan would be I have to rephrase that the only regret that I have about veganism is not quitting sooner Wow Yeah, and did you experience anything negative when you started adding animal products back in or was everything Just positive No, that's a great question. No zero Zero nothing whatsoever Here I have to confess in front of the carnivores. I had one cheat meal during my carnivore time now And the cheat meal was check it out half an avocado Wow Hey Yeah, so I had half an avocado I had scrambled eggs and I said all right today I'm gonna have half an avocado with the scrambled eggs And let me tell you My buddy didn't like it at all really Not at all. I had severe belly cramps. I felt nauseous. It was horrible. I never experienced anything like that before, right? yeah, so Some people might say that is your gut biome getting adjusted or whatnot. Okay could be But after four years of not having any animal products nothing nothing and as a Bodybuilder as somebody that is into sport I always check the labels religiously, right? So I didn't even had Something by mistake. I didn't had a little bit of dairy here or anything. It was all Plan based after four years reintroducing eggs reintroducing sushi those things were the first Nothing perfect digestion to be totally honest It digested a thousand times better than those plant foods because guess what the diarrhea stopped straight away Straight away, right? So therefore now no complications only positives Straight off the bed Yeah, so you said you didn't cheat at all through your whole time as a vegan Um, you really think that even just small cheats like having an egg here and there makes a really big difference 100% I talked about this on my last stream as well Four years and I was vegan a little bit over four years four years 100% plant based, right? And there was this one incident That I completely forgot about it was at my end. It was basically I say three months or so before quitting veganism I lived in Bangkok and I would always buy frozen spinach because somehow I couldn't get fresh spinach around here so I would buy frozen spinach and I bought this package without really checking and that never happens to me. As I said, I'm really religious about it, right? And I would always make my Pumpkin tofu spinach mushroom bake. So I would bake everything in the oven Was actually quite enjoyable Not the effects of it, but the taste and vegans always eat for taste So I would eat that every single day as opposed to workout mea And after two days of eating that pumpkin spinach bake I started feeling much much better, right? And I said to my girlfriend This is it you have to combine the pumpkin with the greens and the mushrooms with the tofu Then it's perfect, right? It is the complex carbohydrates with the tofu protein that is really Well-absorbed perfect combination. Now I feel better, right? Yeah, so after three days I went through that spinach And throwing away that package Somehow I felt I have to double check for whatever reason So I check the ingredients and I see it's imported from France On that note, how great is that right shipped from France to Thailand absolutely sustainable fantastic Veganism is the way to go I check the label and I see that it is French traditional spinach mixed with full fat dairy right with cream. Oh, no Yet I was outraged, right? But hey the damage was done And later on right like a couple months later. I realized to wait a second You know, I felt so much good with that spinach after that I ate the regular spinach again and I felt shit again So what I'm telling you even if you cheat with something Totally minuscule like spinach with dairy inside That already can save certain people. Absolutely Overall, I still didn't feel great overall the introduction of more animal foods is better for your health for sure But little bits and pieces Oh man, they go a long way. They're so powerful for sure. Yeah, so do you think a lot of vegans are cheating Fairly regularly and jad just not coming clean about it I don't think that I know that you know I know that for sure. Yeah, the thing is I never expose anybody that comes to me In private and tells me about the issues because I know how it feels but about many many vegans That came out lately. I knew it months and months before About other vegans that will come out. I know it already So behind closed doors. We are already talking because let's be honest, man Many people they are so indoctrinated and so was I and they're looking for somebody to talk about right? They cannot even believe that there is an option out of that A realm of veganism that there is an option for you to be healthier by eating those bad foods Because in the vegan dogma Meat dairy those foods give you heart attack. It's the worst thing that you can put into your body So therefore they connect to me behind the scenes And I know that there is a tremendous amount of people that cheat Yeah, yeah, and why do you think so many um x vegans are coming out? Uh, like recently why is it happening now? Do you think it's just a snowball effect? Like They're seeing other people do it Yeah, yeah, you could call it the snowball effect or the hundredth monkey phenomena There is this monkey phenomenon. I don't know if you ever heard about it When a group of hundred monkeys picks up a certain trade out of sudden on a completely different It actually was measured in a island scenario There was an island with hundred monkeys and they were picking up a new trade of drinking out of a cup almost They used a little bit of wood to drink out of a cup and once that threshold of hundred monkeys was reached On a totally separate island Other monkeys started picking up the trade. So that is The theory behind it is that there is some sort of collective consciousness in the DNA or species and evolution, right? And that would translate to humans as well. So therefore that could be One reason or maybe I'm philosophizing a little bit too much Other than that, I feel that people just started feeling comfortable and Started seeing that other people experienced the same issues I think that is a big one because before that everybody was claiming that the vegan diet is the healthiest, right? The healthiest diet you will have the best results as a vegan. It is By definition scientifically approved the world health organization already approved it for all stages of life, right? The whole vegan diet is an appeal to authority fallacy by that definition And hence people cannot believe that there is something wrong with it And once people started speaking out of it started sharing their experience People recognize it themselves. They're like, hey, wait a second. I feel bad as well, right? And they feel comfortable coming out on top of that with so many eggs vegans immersing now There is basically a whole new community and let's be honest people seek community. That is the truth We are tribal animals. We always seek some sort of comfort And I think that the x vegan community can give those peoples Yeah, the new support system if you will and they feel right. They're not completely abandoned tries left out of the cult alone and Yeah, nobody gives them any support any love anymore So hence it is good that we have those support groups for those people that need it Um, and I know one of the big reasons you were vegan was for the animals for the ethics Um, has your perspective changed on that? Do you still think veganism is more ethical? No, absolutely not and this is why I want to come to australia myself I'm in contact with certain food producers down there and it's amazing how many reach out to me now because Farmers are in a world of shit at the moment with all of those vegan Should I call them protesters? Yeah Terrorists absolutely and their farms are being stormed. It's absolutely ridiculous horrendous stuff and meanwhile, no it is not more ethical because What are the ethics based on right if we are talking about the taking of a life? Okay, then we have to talk about quantity. I assume. I don't know right should be So if you kill one huge animal There's that one animal is dead and a lot of people can feed on it Meanwhile when I hear About crop production, right how many billions and billions of animals are dying there Vegans, you know, they don't blink an eye. Yeah, just couple of insects Yeah, okay, right. Let me play devil's advocate here. What is the difference then between the insects and the car you tell me Yeah, it's more sentient Okay, so I can play the whole thing again here with you vegans with this. How do they call name the trade? Okay, so what if the cow has the intelligence of a cockroach then, you know, what happens then? Am I allowed to eat the cow? What if you have the intelligence of a cockroach, right name the trade works both ways? It is absolutely ridiculous and aside from that. It's not only cockroaches, right? Let's not be silly here It is rabbits. It is foxes. It is deers. It is kangaroos It is birds that get starved because they are food source which are the insects are gone, right? So many birds are dying in crop production if you care about birds, right? Then you shouldn't eat crops because otherwise. Why do you blame me eating chicken now? It doesn't make sense in food production you will always have by kill And we already know and it is the fact that the by kill of crop production exceeds the grass-fed beef tremendously. That's just what it is So therefore ethically I had to come to terms with that that everything dies in this world I personally still am not a fan of killing but Kate to be honest Once you reintroduce those products Wim Hof the iceman said feeling is believing Once you see how your body reacts to those foods you have to accept that reality Otherwise you're just playing make-believe After seeing how your body reacts to those foods you understand that ancient wisdom if you will you understand Okay, this is how the body evolved. This is the fuel. That's it. I cannot fight it You have to submit so to speak to reality. This is it. All right Now I have to go from here As a vegan I was living in a fairy tale in disneyland if you will right the animals are our friends Don't eat them nobody dies But I say that if you close your eyes to suffering you produce more suffering What do I mean by that if I close my eyes and I sit in front of a bowl of quinoa and I tell myself I'm so righteous. I'm cruelty free You know and I know Billions of animals died for those crops But I can tell myself that I'm not eating an animal great right ethically free comically free But it's not every time you close yourself to suffering you close yourself up you produce more suffering unconsciously Behind the scenes. So therefore I had to come to terms with it the biology Never lies biology never lies Everything else is a dogmatic belief system an idea, but that is not based in reality Right. Sorry. I'm getting a call you Yeah, so it is not based in reality and hence once you understood What the reality of things is you can go from there and your ethics develop from there But those ethics are grounded in reality and hence now I have a totally different outlook on this life a completely different world view Now I'm actually looking forward to going back to macedonia in around about one month and I'm going to join my family Which are hunters and butchers. So I'm going to go hunting for the first time in my life This is how my ethics look like nowadays Yeah, uh, what do you what are you going to go hunting for? I don't know what animals are in macedonia Wild boar mainly and deer Okay Yeah, but maybe start with rabbits. They have a lot of rabbits there as well Yeah, something smaller Whatever I can catch. Yeah, that'll be a change. Uh Yeah, quite a bit Okay, so what does a day of eating look for like for you now like how are you eating carnivore? Yeah, so it's 100 animal based aside from that little cheat meal there That pesky little avocado that almost killed me So I'm usually starting with eggs What I like to do is I like to make an omelet out of egg whites And then put the raw egg yolks on top With a little bit of fish roe sprinkled on it. That's basically my breakfast. Yeah Then I had some french cheese with it as well A little bit of french cheese with the omelet from times to times Second meal would usually be Some sort of meat. Yesterday I had entrecote, which is a humongous steak here with butter on the side Sometimes I do burgers everything around here is grass-fed as I said everything is grass-fed We're living next to a farm. It's absolutely amazing here in france. The food quality is insane I have raw butter as well. So delicious. Sometimes I just eat the raw butter like a candy steak. So It's delicious. Yeah, I love it Yeah, so some sort of meat. I still really enjoy eating raw meats and raw fish as well. So sashimi If I can get my hands on it sashimi is absolutely amazing salmon sashimi is my favorite Yeah, what else that's basically it. It's just meat fish eggs and some cheese Really simple Super simple. Yeah, that's about it Um, and you said you're having dairy as well and that's helping you Yeah, that was when I wasn't carnivore 100% because I know there is a way to do carnivore and still include carbohydrates But that's not what I'm doing at the moment. So what fixed my digestion back in the day was yogurt All right, but yogurt has just too many carbohydrates for this zero carb experiment for me right now So hence I'm not eating it. The only dairy that I'm eating right now is the french cheese Okay Um, and do you think you're gonna start adding other plant foods back in after the month? Not avocados, maybe Yeah, maybe not Now so as you said in the beginning, I'm all about no labels. I have no interest in being team carnivore being zero carb forever I actually appreciate that I have the option of going zero carb now Because as a vegan I was always trying to exclude carbohydrates And guess what it never worked, right? Everything has carbs when you are vegan So hence I'm treating this experiment as a reset button, but coming from bodybuilding I did the ketogenic diet in 2004. I believe for the first time Yeah, it's a long time ago and that was Yeah, and there was already carnivore back in the day because we didn't use any nuts or avocados back then It was all fatty meats. So I already did the carnivore diet, but it has been a long long time ago Hence I didn't get the chance to reset my body on no carbs, right? Just to get fat adapted again but In terms of bodybuilding carbohydrates Definitely work the sport of bodybuilding is 120 years old and carbohydrates around your workouts, especially Definitely give you an edge without carbohydrates. It's an amazing tool to cut or to maintain Right. The ketogenic diet is perfect for that in the long run. However, I definitely will need to get some plant foods back Plant foods being white rice and certain fruits like bananas I personally do not miss them if it would come down to personal preference or how I feel I would stay away from those plants forever. Really. I have no interest whatsoever in consuming them But for my personal ego-centrical goals here of vanity Yes, I will need to reintroduce some plants unfortunately Yeah, so you've noticed a decline with your workouts without the carbs I wouldn't say it's a decline per se, but I know the feeling of being constantly flat carbohydrates just storm to your muscle and they Fill it with glycogen, right? This is how you get the pump. And as I said, I've been experimenting with ketogenic diets before There is a good reason And actually this is a topic that people need to understand as well There's a good reason why certain things work in a bodybuilding context In the bodybuilding context two grams of protein per body weight works Moderate carbohydrates moderate fat adjust the carbohydrates to your goals bulking or cutting. This is it. The rest is consistency That's it. No magic there. But now you see a new movement. Hey, can I build muscle as a vegan? Can I build muscle as a raw vegan? Can I build muscle on carnivore? Yes, you can and you can't The most ideal way to do it is with a classical bodybuilding approach Which includes the carbohydrates includes the high quality protein sources and a moderate fat amount That's just how it goes. So therefore for bodybuilding not for health Yes, you can't really get Around the carbs. Yeah, just the case. Okay. Um, I have a couple questions in the chat for you So any any advice when grass-fed meat is hard to find or it's unaffordable Which european country would be good to live in for affordable grass-fed animal products? Okay, so let's start with the second one. I just got to europe and right now i'm in france I will go over to germany. I will travel the Balkans as well The Balkans are always very very cheap when it comes down to foods because Yeah, we have a humongous meat culture down there. That's all we eat, right? When you go to missidonia, for example You don't buy one steak. You can actually go to shops. They're called Scarana kilo, which means you buy one kilo of meat. That's it. You just order one kilo or two kilos There is no in between, right? That's the perfect place for the carnival diet And hence I would say that those areas are definitely cheaper than the european ones But here in france living around those dairy farms and around those Yeah hunting grounds if you will it is very cheap as well. I bought a humongous entrecote as I said 400 grams for $1.50 Grass-fed insane. Yeah, I don't want to leave anymore. Yeah, it's pretty pretty amazing So therefore as for right now, I can't really tell you which country is cheaper or whatnot I have to experiment myself. What was the other one again? Um Grass-fed is hard to find or if it's unaffordable Yeah, I personally still will say that the quality should go over quantity and that you After all if veganism taught me anything it is about Sourcing your food right Yeah, if nothing else source your food right do not support some sort of animal Factory farming doesn't help anybody doesn't help the animals doesn't help you either, right? So I wouldn't take something out of the supermarket if you cannot get grass-fed beef. I understand that it's more expensive But it's well worth it, right? On the other hand talking to rob tongues the food producer from australia that i'm in contact with He said that actually aside from the states 90 of the animals are actually grass-fed but corn finished I have to look into that first in order to understand what is truly going on I do understand that the gut biome of those animals has to be Adapted first to corn before they can eat it at all and hence they will eat some grass But again, I personally do not give out any recommendations of eating animal factory farming Hey put in a little bit of overtime and eat some quality meat. It's better for you better for everybody Yeah So another question bobby said that his ethics have completely changed since he decided to drop veganism When he was vegan, um, was he just in denial when presented with all the facts? Did he feel like he was lying to himself? Wow, that's a great question. Yeah, absolutely. You have those automatic responses almost Where you just tell yourself the same things over and over again So when somebody told me yeah, but how about crop production animals are dying there You would just ridicule it because your tribe is ridiculing it Yeah, a couple of animals couple of you know, it's Incidental it is accidental that is not something that is happening Every single time so in your vegan worldview you think that there might be one rabbit that just Yeah ends up in the combine harvester and that's it, you know, whoopsie. It's an accident. You know, it wasn't planned nobody ever talks about The destruction of the environment through monocultures nobody talks about that at all whatsoever And this is why I want to make this documentary to expose it because Listen guys when I became a vegan I didn't just become a vegan to become vegan right to get a vegan label a vegan stamp on my forehead and to go about things It was all about Truth and I think this is what we all should be interested in in truth, right? If there is something That is going on behind the scenes in the animal industry You want to know about it? Great me too, right? Let's take a look. Let's see what is going on. Fantastic. Maybe you should make other choices now grass-fed beef Wild game and whatnot Make sense But now once you find out that there are so many animals dying for your quinoa Don't you want to know about that? I personally wanted to know and once I found out about that That was basically before quitting veganism as well. I got exposed to that information and I really started researching it Two or three months before quitting and once I realized hey, wait a second, man. There are more animals dying I couldn't stay vegan anymore because that is the truth So don't be vegan be a truth seeker if you will Okay, do mushrooms help in reducing inflammation and brain inflammation 100% yes 100% and again, I'm not going to take this into Into who and to wishful thinking all I was ever interested in is results, right? Does it help? I had chronic inflammation I had chronic depression after the ingestion of magic mushrooms No recommendation on that note, right? No medical professionals here and if it's illegal in your country, don't touch it But yes, it helped tremendously and right now We have this organization in california called maps that are researching that field And they see how tremendous mushrooms are for Neuro neogenesis, so it produces new brain cells and it starts rewiring the brain over and over again Lois inflammation and alleviates depression is absolutely amazing We saw that in the field of medical marijuana as well CBD is a keyword here Absolutely mushrooms helped tremendously with inflammation. It went even so far That my right leg was so inflamed that it was partially paralyzed And after the ingestion of mushrooms The swelling was gone and I could walk again. I know it sounds miraculous sounds like a Story out of the bible, but it's really the case Yeah Okay, uh, someone said can you debunk dr. Joel kahn? He claims he's been vegan for 40 plus years and still perfectly fine Yeah, I mean Let's be honest here debunk him howl I haven't had coffee with him yesterday and he was sipping a little bit of milk into it, right? I didn't see him. I didn't catch him if I ever do then I will But yeah, this is just very fishy to me see Joel kahn and garth davis They both run an organization called Jewish veg And guys, I'm not going to go into conspiracy theories here. That's not what it is Many people say the jews. They are the zionists or whatever. That's not what this is about at all but Even if it would be called muslim veg or christian veg, right? I would be skeptical It's a religious organization and religion always comes with dogma. That's just what it is, right? So everybody that confuses nutritional science with religion Has to be at least questioned in my book, right? There is a dogmatic belief system attached to that If you look into garth davis again, they run the same organization When he talked to bart k Essentially every single thing that he said was dismantled pretty soon pretty quickly And hence again, I do not know the guy. I haven't seen him cheat on butter or eggs or whatnot, but I know for a fact. I know them personally People that have been vegan over seven or eight years No chance, man. They've been cheating with certain foods here and there Even accidentally, right? Yeah Okay, I think that's everything so unless there's anything else you want to say that we can Probably wrap it up Yeah, what I want to say is just for if they're vegans watching and I know they're watching because the vegans are the biggest fans They always like to watch anti vegan videos I just want to let you know that I as I said many many times by now was an ethical vegan and I didn't want to stop veganism I really gave it a fair effort. I even pushed the line one and a half years longer than I should have I really tried it all. I wanted to stay vegan. I couldn't stay vegan All I'm asking from you is give yourself the benefit of the doubt Maybe there's something wrong with you guys just Try it out. Give yourself the freedom of experimentation Go to a farm if you want to really get involved with animals as a vegan you claim you like animals Do you see animals on a daily basis? Get some backyard hens. Why not look after some chickens and try some ethical eggs Try it out for a week for a month. Give it a fair effort and see what will happen to you To break out of that dogma. You have to experiment. You have to try it out and then Hey, if it didn't work, okay, go back to the plants. No worries, but Don't stay in it for the wrong reasons. Just give yourself the benefit of the doubt Question your dogma question your religion if you will and see what will happen After that you can still be vegan for the rest of your life if it doesn't work Well said Okay, so yeah guys check out bobby's youtube channel if you haven't already i'm sure Most people have um, yeah I guess that's it All right, kate. Thanks for having me again apologies. I'm still a bit sleepy and didn't eat anything today jet lagged I still had a lot of fun talking to you. Thanks for the interview. Thanks for having me and all the best on your journey Oh, thank you