 Recording in progress. Thank you, Dottie. Feel free to interrupt us with jokes to keep us moving. I'm going to call the Wednesday, October 11th meeting of the S extraction city council to order. There are any agenda additions or changes. We will have one additional executive session to discuss potential litigation. Okay, so we'll make that 5G. Anything else? Amber is there. Amber. All right. Not further discussion. All those in favor or do I have a motion to approve the agenda? Thank you. Thank you. Now, without further discussion, do I have a motion to approve the amended agenda? I did that. I'll second it again. We're going to start over. If you do it again, it was the jokes. It was the jokes. All those in favor of approving the agenda amended agenda. Thank you. All those. It was unanimous. All right. Moving on public to be heard the portion of the meeting where members of the public can bring comments or concerns. On items that are not on the agenda for this evening. There is a person in the room. So I'm just going to start here with. The audience. If you could just give us your name, come up to the table. Full name for the person. Okay. Right to our minutes. Shall I begin? Okay. Last spring, I was here talking about the senior center and the changeover. And it is now three months, less than three months before the changeover. And I know that Regina and Brad. And I have been doing some research for myself. And I wanted to know, I wanted to make sure that you know. What the situation is about the senior van. For people in the city. Because we were told that SSTA would. Take over. Well. I called SSTA. I called SSTA. And they told me I had to talk to Green Mountain power. Green Mountain transit. Excuse me. Green Mountain transit sent me. The application. There's a description of what you do. There are two forms to fill out one to be filled out by your physician. You have to be a diagnosed. Disabled person. So that takes care of me right there. I am not a diagnosed disabled person. Then also in their description of the service. It says that. Pickups and drop offs at any location. More than three quarters of a mile from fixed routes will not happen. Now I called to find out what that meant. Well, if I was eligible for a job. That meant. Well, if I was eligible. Now I live on Taft Street. One block from Route 15. If I if I was eligible and I wanted to use SSTA to go somewhere. The lady told me I had to walk to the train station first. And then they would pick me up at the train station. That would be more than three quarters of a mile away from a bus stop. Not the bus route. Now I don't know whether the people I know at the senior center. Who I believe live in the city are officially disabled. And can officially qualify. To be able to use SSTA. And I don't know whether they live. Less than three quarters of a mile away from a bus stop. Now there may be other rules that I didn't hear about with my research. But this is not a substitute. For the Essex senior van. When my husband and I moved back to the junction. 11 years ago 12 years ago shortly after that. We signed up for the senior van. Nobody asked our doctor whether we could walk. Nobody asked you know there was no eligibility criteria. We signed up. We haven't used it much. It's a nice thing to know you can call on if you can plan ahead enough. But there are people. That I meet at the senior center who depend on it. To get them to the senior center. Among other things. So. If you want me to leave you this paperwork so that you can read through it. It's not going to do me any good. Because. I'm not eligible. But then I don't need it that mad badly. But there are people who need it that badly. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Okay. So. Just to clarify the last point. So the ADA paratransit service. Only serves folks within three quarters of a mile. Of fixed route service. So when you look at the city of Essex junction, that is. Not in a hundred percent covered, but fairly well covers the majority of the city. It is true to qualify for that service there. You need to have a. Disability that prevents you from being able to walk to the fixed route service. Or stand for the appropriate amount of time in order to be able to be picked up by the bus. And. So it is absolutely true the. And the process of going through that in order to be able to qualify for the ADA paratransit service. Is more complicated than. Applying for the senior van service. So just to clarify how this works. If in dining's example, you were. Qualified for the ADA paratransit. S S T I would pick you up at your house. The concept being that if you are able to walk to the fixed route service. We have one of the most frequently running fixed route services in. In the county and. The thought process is that that's that's how those 2 federal programs funded programs basically work in conjunction with each other. You have a fixed route service available to you. If you are not able to access that service, the paratransit service is there. So just to. I guess I have a question on the. And we're not going to go too far down this road right now, but I'd be interested to find out. As my impression was that the interaction, the form from a physician or provider. Was akin to the form to provide a parking placard. Not an official. Federal government designation of being disabled. Which is a vast difference. 1 is a doctor's appointment and a conversation the other. Almost all this requires an attorney. So. Yeah, and I don't I'm not familiar with the placard process. So, so I don't know that I will. Donnie can show you that application is. It's more complicated than 1 wants it to be. It's not simple by any stretch, but it does. It does require. Doctor signing off on it. They've also liberalized it a little bit because now do not have to have an in person interview. Which is required in the paperwork that I have. But of course they sent me 2 weeks ago. Paperwork that is now already. Too old. But that's an explained while the woman I was talking to this morning. Said that even if I was eligible, I would have to meet the S. S. T. A. At the train station. She was measuring from bus stops. And she worked for S. S. T. A. I guess I'm not seeing the distinction between a bus stop and a fixed route because the bus stop will be on the fixed route. 1 in the same. So, Andrew, when we had this conversation a year or 2 ago, we were originally planning this. And the conversation with Green Mountain Transit was that anywhere, like if you look in the telephone polls and you see where it says bus stop printed on that. That that counts as a fixed route stop. So if you live within 3 quarters of a mile of that. That then you would be eligible as long as the eligibility of your doctor signing off on it was there. And so that's where the understanding from G from Green Mountain Transit leadership about how the overwhelming majority of S X junction does qualify geographically for it. How that came about. And so I would, it seems as if the feedback to Green Mountain Transit's customer service. I'm assuming you spoke to needs to be to make sure that they understand that because it doesn't seem that that messaging has been received at that level. Excuse me, but 1 other thing I forgot to mention. As when I asked them how long the approval process is going to take, it will be 3 to 4 weeks. So the people that I know at the senior center have to get this started if they're expecting to be able to use the service in January. And that's 3 to 4 weeks. 3 weeks after they've gotten all the paperwork into the office. So you have to get your doctor's appointment in. Yeah. Thank you. Alright, anyone online anybody else in the room. Have anything. Is there anyone online that has a comment or concern. We'd like to talk about. Oh, I didn't see. If you want to have a seat and just give us your name. Yeah. Thank you. Joe. A little bit of a subject that's been brought up a lot before. And that's the our train station and bus depot. People said that if you want something done, Facebook's not the place to do it. And here I am, even though there's been more before me on that source subject of a paint job. Back in June or July, I posted. Some pictures of it hoping to get some responses from city council and I didn't. I got a lot of people saying, you know, just level it. Forget about the paint job and bubble. It's, it's gone on for so long, just very, very disappointed, you know, that we can't seem to get through the red tape. I know we don't own the building and actually, when the crosswalk came up by the fairgrounds and max market, I asked if the paint job would come before the crosswalk. I came to thank you in person because that's, I didn't expect a reply from you, Raj, but you replied and you said the difference is we can, we can do the crosswalk what we don't own the building. And I get it. But that's still kind of red tape pushing it down the road. So there's a few things that, you know, next construction season, well, is there a way we can get a date. That's, that's one. Another thing is, and this is just a bandaid, but is there a way that say like our village, our voices volunteers, which did wonders, you know, there was over 30 of us, maybe over 40 of us. We got a record breaking 88% of the village voters to come out, right. I think I can get that many people to pitch in someday with their labor and possibly some painters that live in the village or the city, maybe even with power sprayers. And like I said, even though it's a bandaid, just to get it done because it looks disgraceful. And it's not going, it's, it's not going away. If we're waiting for next construction season, that's at least another six months. So I don't know if we can get permission to do it ourselves. Because, you know, it's interesting. I did walk around it. Monday or Friday. I can't remember which taking some pictures. And on this side of it, there's a big broken window. And I'll admit some of this is throttling how much input we're giving to staff right now. Understanding more intimately what's on the plate. And what's underway. So this is a little bit inside baseball, but knowing that there's a grant and a process underway and those talks have finally started to get the work done that's going to encase that building. And also, you know, what we bring up. For the folks we have to deal with when. But I did hear a lot of that feedback and made a trip over there myself to kind of see what was up. And I do have a number of pictures and some notes that I wanted to drop drop off with stuff but I guess I'm saying I'm planning on doing that but I am throttling how much. I'm dropping at to Lincoln for folks to do with understanding that the list of pressing items right now. That is one of them, but it is a it's just a matter of trying to manage priorities in terms of how many people we have to do it. And your plan is a great one. It's something I've thought of a number of times. It's understanding that, you know, it's the railroad folks in St. Albans, Genesee and Wyoming nationally, Amtrak separately, which we just met with last week. And coordinating all of those people to just get permission or find out who to speak to to maybe get permission to be on the property to do something like that. And honestly, for all of Amtrak's talking up the work they've done on the ramp and everything, there's still a really ugly shed. Next to the building falling apart. There's a broken window. They're not taking care of trash in a daily and GMT needs a phone call to find out why the bus stop needs a coat of paint and who's responsible for that. And I don't think that's very clear right now to me. So I apologize that it's taken this long to get to. I'm not trying to make an excuse for it, but the reason I haven't been pushing it as hard. It's just because I'm, I'm trying to manage when we give staff this these requests to do because I understand. I'm starting to understand, excuse me, how much time it takes. What do you mean by staff. Having people be able to handle that work and make those phone calls and coordinate the. And again, I'm saying with the railroad, there are many different players in that we don't own the property. And as it is we have staff managing a grant and a construction envelope to modify that building. And a match I believe right we're matching it from our taxpayers for a building we don't own. We don't own that building. And yet our taxpayers are going to pay to beautify it. So I'm trying to also in my head, I guess part of my subconscious is saying, I don't want to do that twice. If we're doing it next summer or spring. So it's, again, I'm not trying to make excuses. I, I see it every day too and it bothers that. Well, that's, that's what's kind of kind of scary is that we don't have a date. We don't, we don't have a date. Do we Regina? I mean, we've just started managing the grant and doing the paperwork with the railroad and trying to find. We're trying to get the process underway for contractors, but we have been managing four different construction projects this construction season and that one hasn't been one of them. Yeah, that, that I do not have a date yet. It is highly unlikely that that construction season is not next year. You mean it might it's going to happen next year. It's highly unlikely that it will happen. Okay. Wow. Okay. Well, I misspoke them. I don't see any owner or owners of that building denying permission for a group of volunteers to have it painted. How do we get permission so someone doesn't, I'm just going to leave it tonight at we're going to look into it. I mean, would you, would you like a petition? No, I think we've heard it. And I think getting an update, which we are, I believe, going to get on this project. In the next two or three meetings. We'll also ask that if it is going to be a construction season away. So in 25 that we find out from the railroad what can be done. But again, I am personally going to going myself I'm going to want them to have something in it. Because honestly, it's their responsibility to keep it up in the first place. It's a little disturbed. We even have to be talking about it right now. And so are you, I get it. But I, I think it's something I brought up with the folks when they were visiting from Amtrak, but it's not even them. Because they're in the same boat we are. It's not their building. Yeah. So I hear you, we'll try to get an answer out in the next couple weeks. That would get public communication would be something because there's a lot of people, a lot of people that are really, really, really. Yeah, it's right in the middle of town. Yeah. And it's, and like I said, it's gone on for so long. And we did ask a land building owner on railroad to fix their broken glass window and I had no idea until Monday that the one facing the parking this direction on the train station was also in the same condition. So yeah, we'll be reaching out to. Yeah, because I believe and I don't I don't think we want to go down this route but don't we have ordinances even though we don't own the building don't we have ordinances on on the upkeep of of buildings. And nobody wants to go down that route, you know, and I don't think we have anybody to enforce it anyways but getting there. If you think that we need to get a group of volunteers together, I could. I mean, if that's the way if that's the way we go I'll be first in line. Yeah, you know, and. And, you know, I tell you what, we'll update you in a couple of weeks. I don't know that'll be any sooner. I don't know that anybody is going to be able to read get in touch with them that quickly. So, well, we can't we'll update it in a couple of weeks, even if we can't. Yeah, and I'll make sure I at least reach out to you or mention it in the meeting. Yeah. That this is what we know so far. Yeah. But yeah, I get it. It's very frustrating. Yeah. And just for the record, you know, in the I've lived here, I don't know, between 35 and 40 years, I've never used that station. Yeah, it's not like I use it. I don't use it. I'm just sick of looking at it. I mean, it's Well, I will say put it in a plug for it's very convenient. Some friends just went down to Brattleboro for $18 and had him. Yeah, apparently the great time I'm hearing stops are going to be added in Canada and, you know, all right. Thank you. Yeah, some communication to to our community about the progress or non progress just so we know where we're at, and if there's anything we can do is sit as, you know, living in the community just let us know. Appreciate it. Thanks guys. All right. Is there anyone else in the room? I don't see any hands up on zoom. Yes, sir. Yes. Want to come up. Sorry, we can't the folks on channel 17 can't hear you from back there. You could just give us your name to James Grimsley. I live here. Just a suggestion. There are many ways to build a building. This Amtrak station could be the first self heating and cooling antiseptic hemp Crete building. I'm building with hemp Crete in my own house just a couple blocks from here, and I'm getting it from chewy.com. It's an antiseptic animal betting. We have lime you strike ball fields with in water. And we don't need to paint anymore. It all goes in the watershed. We can be ethical. We can use casein from the dairy industry, and we can make milk paint. It's very simple. These are renders that our tradesmen can learn to do and our ancestors did. I know now come by my house. I'll show you hemp Crete. It's a suggestion to Amtrak. And I understand it's like the post office. They're renting from a donor. My question here is, are you can you disclose the landowner? Who's the landowner? Who owns the train station? I think it's Genesee in Wyoming, but I could visit. So Genesee is actually the landowner. Genesee in Wyoming I think is the at minimum building owner. England Central Railroad, I think it's a subsidy area. So bring going concern in town. It's an accounting term that means you care by the property. If you can. Build a hemp Crete station. It's a very small dwelling. It'll be 65 degrees in year round. It'll be the healthiest place indoors to breathe in this town. My house is slowly becoming that. My name is James with love. Thank you, James. Anyone else in the room? I don't see any hands online. It's a couple seconds. And I guess we'll move on to five a interview. For Brown Hill Library trustees. And pulling up the, sorry. It's going to go with the order in which they are in the packet. So Karen, would you like to come up? Am I saying Hergishimer? Hergishimer. Pretty close. Okay. Good. Thank you. Yeah. So you're applying for the Brown Hill Library trustee position and this is coming up now. And not being elected. If I understand this right, because there was an opening. Yes, normally this would be an elected position. Yes. One thing I didn't see in here and I did have a question on was how long is the remaining term. Do we know we can find out later. I believe it's still 2027. Okay. Sorry to interrupt with that little detail. Would you like to tell us a little bit about why you're, why you're interested in becoming a library trustee? Sure. Somebody asked me to apply that there was an opening and I've done other volunteer positions within the community, mostly the kids schools that my children are in and I didn't really have time and I've I've always loved the library as I've said in my application. It's, it's my city center personally. It's where a lot of my heart is for the city. And so when somebody came up and said you should apply, I said, okay, it's time. So I'm here tonight to apply. Great. Well, thank you for that. Yeah. Any of the counselors have any questions for Karen? I would like to ask what your favorite program is that the library puts on or is there a program that needs more support? I'm impartial to must read Mondays because I'm the volunteer liaison for that. And I've read so many books with that group that I never would have picked up myself. So I think that that's my favorite program. But the programs that my children have been part of and have had access to, I think, have been wonderful. I wish more members of the community have could take part or would take part in them. And I think there, there is an underserved population that is worth exploring. If I were to be part of that group that I'd just be interested to hear. I don't know the inner workings of the library and how they pick the program. So I would just be curious to be part of that group and just make sure that the net is cast as wide as possible to make it accessible to as many people as we could. Thank you. Can I ask who can you describe who we're not reaching? I think a lot of new Americans, people who's who's who have a language barrier. There are, for my volunteer time in the schools, there are kids that don't know how, you know, they take them to the library to get a library card at the end of every year. But they don't have families that continue that practice. And so I think there's people that either can't get to the library or they don't know or they just are nervous about going and what is it and where is it and why is it there. People who have come from countries that don't have a library system like we do in the United States. So I think there's there's people in the community that would really, you know, enjoy it if they had some help getting there. Great. Amber. No. I guess my question would be, you've been involved the library a long time. So you're familiar sort of with with the trajectory it's taken over the last 10 or 15 years. Where do you see the next 10 for five or 10, like what's next for for Brown? No, I mean, they've made a lot of changes for the last few years. Significant changes into into how they work. You know, really facilitating, I think, not having to go into the library. So what do you see as the next five or 10 years for that. As you see sort of previous 10 or 15 and then the recent changes they've made. I think it's hard to answer that completely without knowing. Again, the inner workings of the library, but I think there's a technology component that they're, they're starting to be on the wave of I think there's more work that could be done with making the library more accessible. I think sort of rethinking a brick and mortar library in the next 10 years is sort of, you know, where future where the, you know, younger generations now that don't feel like they need to walk into a library to access information. But I also see the library as a gathering place as a community space. And so I think for me, having people not see the library as oh I go and I get books to see it as that community gathering space and a safe space and an inclusive space and more than just the books, it's it's the people that work there it's the people that meet there it's the programs they provide. So I think just expanding on what a library means to somebody. I'd be interested in exploring that. I think you've answered my questions I'll hear any others from any of the counselors so I really appreciate you stepping forward for this and taking the time to come tonight. We are not going to make a decision tonight. We still have one more person that couldn't be here. So it'll be at least the 25th, I think. Sorry to delay. It's okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night. And it's not here. Mike Sullivan. Would you like to come up? Hello guys. So would you like to explain what motivated you to aim forward to this position? After that, after her. Fun having to do this one after the other. Yeah, I'm not sure. Because listening to your questions, I realized maybe I don't have some of the focus that other people might have. So I'm probably going to undermine my thing. But the reason I applied. The reason I applied. Everybody brings something valuable. I am much concerned about banning books. I'm very concerned about the attitude that seems to be all too prevalent. And hopefully not so much, I think here, but then sometimes I think I should move to make a difference and vote somewhere else like Florida. But yeah, I think it's a, I think the Brown L is, is a premier library. And we'd really like to see it continue as, as a premier library. The programs, again, I'm not deep into the programs, though I have been tempted to enjoy and join that. What is it on Tuesdays mornings, the 10, 10 to 11 30 current to discuss current events discussion. But yeah. So I'd like to be, I would, I still keep my hat there, but I think you may find other people that may qualify better now that I'm thinking about it a little longer. Make your little, make your lives a little easier. I will also say one of the things since the railroad stuff came up. Quiet crossings. Different meeting, but yes. Well, hold on, don't go. Unless you're pulling, you know, you showed up. So we're going to ask. Okay, do it. Amber, anything? Five a.m. Five a.m. to a m. All right. Different meeting. Marcus, any questions, Andrew? Come on, Marcus. Oh, Mike. No, let me, let me ask you about, again, where you think the library needs more support. You mentioned already a program. So but I am curious about where you think the library could use as, as was identified prior that I don't know the depths of that without the internal stuff. I think being focusing on clear and open communication. The library is for everybody. The idea of transportation, I guess the senior bus would also bring you to the library, obviously, but that would seem like a thing that would be important to have that elderly or people without transportation could get there. Parking. Maybe. I don't know. It always seems like then again, I hardly ever go over to the bigger parking lot. And a book mobile slash senior bus all in one. Yes, mobile grocery store and clinic. I heard tonight dollar general is, I heard tonight dollar general is starting mobile clinic. I'll ask you the same question. You know, where, where do you see the library going in the next five or 10 years? Obviously, it's probably a land locked as far as footprint is concerned. So probably at night growing so much but bringing in more technology to be able to service not only e type reader type stuff but also bringing in. Watching when I see the announcement that there is somebody comes in and does technical support or help for people who just how do I do this on this? Yeah, I think that would be a very good thing to maybe beef up a bit. So yeah. Yeah. Great. Nobody else. We're good. Well, thank you. I think you heard before we're not going to make decisions. We'll be after the 25th, but very much appreciate you coming out. I'm still enjoying playing on the Chinden solid waste district. Oh, thank you. We'll have to have you back on that. Roger, just to answer your question about the term. The motions were made specifically for each of these. Okay. And it says until the next annual election. I will confirm this, but I think this position is until April. A trustee can be put up on the ballot. Okay. So the person that gets this position would have to be on the ballot run beyond the ballot. If they wanted to stay on, they wanted to stay on. Yeah. So it doesn't necessarily finish. Because if there's say two years left, it wouldn't necessarily fill that term, whatever that. The trustees is normal. But there would be this position and fill out the remainder of the term. Oh, it would not fill. It's a great, it's a three year term. Right. Looks like this. So you'd have the trustees with their three year terms and then there would be potentially this position. Also on. The ballot that would be say. Because again, I don't know what the remainder is. Let's just say it's for a one year term. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then they do it again. They'd have to run again to get the get on cycle. Yeah. Okay. So I can confirm because we're, we'll have to do this next time, but I think that's okay. Okay. Okay. So then also within the same agenda item, you have the Chittany County communications union district position. That is also Martha and she was not able to come tonight, but she is confirmed that she can come on the 25th. Okay. We can have this both discussions again on the 25th. Great. All right. So no action. Thank you both for coming again. And, you know, please feel free to stick around. No, okay. We are moving on to five B chin and regional chin and county regional planning commission presentation with Mr Charlie Baker. Good evening. Thank you for the time on your agenda. Good to see you all. This is kind of my annual customer service check in. We are a member service organization and serve our member municipalities provided report that I'm confident is in your packet. Because I verify that earlier. But so just you probably read it, but I'll just kind of do a little walk through and kind of pause after each section to see if there's any thing you'd like to discuss. You know, any feedback on our services or issues that are in front of the city that should be on my mind as we figure out how to help you best. The first page of the report first section kind of gives a background history and membership of the regional planning commission. A little bit on our overall budget and how we leverage municipal dues. Oh, thank you Regina to bring in state and federal funds into the county. And then who your representatives are on our board or were on her board and committees last fiscal year. So I know I'm aware Elaine and Dan switched seats, which is great. And thank you. They really have both been active and great participants on our board as of your staff on our committees. And then flipping onto the second section reviews kind of specific things we did for you last fiscal year. A big project on your stormwater inspection. Someone helped with updating your land development code at the beginning of the fiscal year before she found something else to do. Then, sorry for it. He's still sore. I know still a little sore. So sorry. Sorry for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about. Regina worked at the regional planning commission before taking this job as your city manager. And we're thankful that she's in that role. Sorry, sorry. Also, GIS services and just a variety of technical assistance activities and data and a little bit on by ways and the E and D services. So we host a quarterly meeting on the elderly and disabled services with the providers in the county. If you're ever interested in what's going on there, which maybe. So that's yeah, I'll take any feedback on a pause there. Take any feedback on any of those things we did for you last year. I've heard only good things very much appreciate it. I think there's talk about potentially working with your group on. Identifying rental housing stock in the city. As we consider a registry to be under the category and. I heard about that as well. Yeah, so let me, let me flip the page because we'll kind of talk about, yeah, future work. Yeah. Let me ask if I may. Yes, sir. This might actually be for Regina just so that I understand. So in the case of looking at the GIS, for instance, and you know, we're talking about by pedestrian. Is our, do our committees are committees interacting with the CCRB or, or. Or how does that, I guess, relationship work? Yeah, because obviously there's, it looks like there's work here that they could either benefit from or. Again, working through staff. Yeah, trying to. You know, getting utilize this information. Yeah, so for the most part, CCRPC runs an annual solicitation process and we look at what needs that we have and we prioritize that list and we get it over to CCRPC in January. There are also minor level projects that we can ask for along the way. And typically, unless this has changed that some of it comes at a fee for service if it's over 12 hour increments. So. That should be run through staff and the staff that are running those committees so that we can make sure CCRPC is an overwhelmed by tasks and they're coming from the, you know, request are actually coming from the city. And that we can make sure we have the budget to pay for it. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so it is a pretty deliberative. Yeah, thanks for Gina for that deliberative process of like, we'll send out a solicitation around Thanksgiving time. Ask municipalities to let us know what we could help them with the following fiscal year. We have a committee that reviews all those and kind of make sure that we can fit it into our budget and yes, hours of staffing. We vote our board votes on that in May and then hopefully, you know, we started sometime July or thereafter in the fiscal year depending on what you need. Yeah, that's always the city is always in charge of what we're doing and I think we're our staff is always pretty sensitive of like, we're not kind of egging one of your committees on to do things that you haven't talked about and provided direction on. So, you know, and the way I think about it is that we're kind of supplemental staff for you, you know, let us know what we can help with. We are here to supplement you and help get done what you need to get done when you can't do it. So thank you. I guess I am curious about I've just kind of scanning through this and I remembered I made a note and a different piece of paper that I bring tonight but the project that was talked about years ago. Now it feels like years ago which one Westford extension and Susie Wilson Road intersection. It's sort of listed here under technical assistance, but we are I'm just going to make a plug that some of us are really hoping that that kind of catches again. That was approved by those were discussions that I believe were had with CCRPC a plan was developed. Our board approved it I think the town approved it, and I believe it got set aside around conversations around the Susie Wilson Road intersection redesign. Is this a bike path. So the redesign of that whole section, the road, removing the median, changing the format of the road a bit to multi use path bike path road turn line road bike path. Yeah, that it's on here because there's been a lot of Chris is Chris you in here has been trying to really get up speed on what the history of that was and what's the status of it so he's been talking Brian quite a bit about trying to figure that that all out. I mean the beginning of that the first most of that work with CCRPC was amazing the product the process was great the input they provided and the facilitation was great just hoping to see it resurrected. Yeah, and that also involves the town. If I in so far my understanding and so far as it impacts that intersection. Yeah. Okay, which you know it's a good time to be trans 10 of us success. More discussions. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the heads. Yeah heads up let me I'll kind of go back and that was Brian and my office I was talking. Okay. Yeah, so they are between Chris and Brian they are trying to figure out what the next steps are where kind of bring that back to life a little bit. There is a separate be trans is working on separate Susie Wilson road project right now that has somewhat involved. Okay, maybe this really wouldn't address what we're talking about which is basically road diet. Gotcha. That's the term I was looking for. Thank you. Thank you. Such a funny term anyway. Yeah, well, going out to the next section on top of page three. Yeah, you've got the little project Crescent Crescent Connector hopefully finishing up next year. Yeah, and yeah, I heard with interest. Sorry, tangent, the conversation on the train station that will probably appear in our program. Also, when that gets programmed and scheduled, there'll be some communication between the city and be trans and us and to make sure it's in the program. And, and then in terms of our actual work program for this fiscal year. The three things that you see in the box here, this table are things that we're working on this fiscal year, including the GIS service will be in touch soon on this transit oriented development. We got that special grant. And just to kind of make sure we're on the same page with the municipality, we finally got approval from FTA to move forward. So we finally got an agreement there. And we'll start working on the scope and consultant selection and things like that for that, that work, probably realistically, sorry, this was for Regina probably January startup. But we're thinking and then more work on your stormwater inspections. And I'll pause it. Well, I guess I'll just jump into the last section is a whole variety of things that are we call regional activities are kind of done without regard to any specific municipality, a wide range of things. A few of them I'll just kind of call out mentioned. One is we are in the process of updating our regional plan. We're actually going to extend the schedule for that. And in the second related bullets spend a little bit more time on engagement, particularly with underrepresented communities in the county. And also deal with some other issues that are likely to come up either through the legislature or for other reasons where we kind of need to take some more time on our regional plan. But we are spend a lot more time on equity and engagement and, you know, trying to get better at doing that, which probably going to be a career long effort, but we will kind of keep marching down that path. Thought. Sorry, good. Okay. Or question. Well, I mean, it's on the, it's on the equity work. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I'm kind of curious. Do you foresee that using that lens and incorporating that lens in decision making and project review and, you know, really being intentional about about that. That is exactly that work when you do something like, you know, the to grant with us and start looking I mean there are places to start incorporating that is that kind of the work or is it more about. Is it is a little more. I don't even know what it would be. So I'm curious what the thinking behind it. I mean, I guess I'm saying I hope so. Yeah. And I think we've kind of got it divided up into like kind of four things. One of them is definitely what you talked about like prioritizing our work with a little bit of that lens, particularly as if resources start to get tighter. Like, let's make sure we're doing that. There's also an aspect of just relationship building, you know, with the variety of communities that we have. So that's an important part. And so yeah, I think we're, we're trying to be thoughtful. We're not going too fast. So we're trying to, you know, kind of move at the speed of trust, as they say. And be thoughtful about how we're doing things internally and externally to really, you know, address those issues in our community that, you know, frankly, to me seem foundational for our future. You know, we're getting more diverse. We need to be more inclusive as we move forward. So. Yeah. And I guess I was saying, right, you know, having making sure those people are at the table. Yep. That every decision sort of includes questions like how will this impact. Yep. How will this, how will this, are they, have they been asked? That's exactly anticipating in the process, that kind of thing. Yep. That's exactly, you know, it's not going as quickly as I would like, but, but we have, you know, a fairly active equity advisory committee that's helping with that. But also we're just, when we do an individual project. One that's really tied into this is the Winooski bridge, right? So we're spending, you know, a lot more time with the community. I mean, we did when we were doing the scoping for it to get the concept now that it's in the trans with design. We're working with them to do even more engagement on kind of the final design for it. But that's just, we want really big project where it's real relevant. But we're even, you know, trying to think more systematically and frankly, that's why we're taking more time with the plan. Like even embedding equity in more detail throughout our plan document and, and involving the community in that. So taking more time. Other things, just real quickly, a lot of focus on housing. We'll have a building homes together. The press conference, I think in about two weeks has up for that. We're not meeting our targets. Shocking. And I say, sorry for those who don't appreciate my humor. I say shocking only because we're just in a place in time where costs have gone up dramatically and interest rates have made construction a little harder right now. So we'll keep working on that. There's a lot and there's a lot of conversation. Obviously in the legislature from S 100 this year, there'll be much more conversation this coming year around state permitting and removing regulatory barriers in the state for housing. Happy to talk more about that. Also, just other issues, energy, biking, walking, clean water, emergency management. Happy to take any feedback or questions or if there's things on your minds that I should. And also, lastly, I guess I'll end with, you know, we do a legislative breakfast every this early December. If you have, you know, issues that you'd like to make sure are kind of on that agenda. Please let me know. I'm pretty certain we will be letting you know. I guess the only other Amber, I can't see on the screen right now, but I didn't know if you had anything you wanted to add or ask right now. I'm all set. Thank you. Okay. Andrew. I have a question around like the building homes together but broadly about how there is such a lack of housing within our community in particular within our county. Does CRPC have or foresee a role in broader community engagement and about how each community in our county is a part of this problem, both in terms of being a hindrance, but as well as being a solution to it. And to try and help inform our residents that no one community in and of itself can't alone fix the problem. But if we don't work together, then we're just not going to fix the problem. In some way, I'll just be direct to try to help fight NIMBYism that is existing in our community, particularly. Yeah, I heard a phrase a week or two ago, turning neighbors into neighbors. And I think we also, yes, I'll just answer that bluntly. But it is, it is challenging. We have, you know, I think the last like for mantra service of 40% of our population is opposed to any new growth. And so this is a real conundrum, right, if you got, and it comes out in our public meetings and things. I think the legislature took some strong action in S 100. You know, one of the things kind of the by right provision there where kind of limited DRB's abilities to negotiate down the number of housing units. But yeah, so this past year was a lot of focus on the municipal zoning side. And as I said, this year, I think it's going to be around active 50 and designations and that state policy lovers. And then you're right, but it's got to work hand in hand with municipal work. And the work that we've been doing has been mostly supporting municipalities. And you see a couple of this projects, even in a six junction with zoning updates and trying to help support what, you know, which is a community conversation. Right about what you want for your community that we've been trying to support both financially and with staff resources. So I'll, but I think I heard your point about, we also need a little bit more like, Hey, let's all work individually and together on this messaging. And I'll try to get some of that into the building homes together press conference. So thank you for that. I think the something that goes along with that that I'm struggling with is the, you know, the, the contraction and public transportation right now that we're seeing GMT. They're placing that on the ability to hire drivers, which I understand. Just as the state is putting pressure on this particular area to add capacity and Williston has exploded and we're about to build quite a bit. We have the busiest routes and some of the worst service in terms of how it aligns with our employers and how it gets up to the town. A major hub for employment and out to Williston and that route is I think hourly. And, you know, getting, getting GMT and getting the state to basically. So the legislative breakfast end of it, for instance, you know, really hammering home to the state that something needs to be done to provide. The public transit necessary to handle the requested and anticipated development that they're asking these communities to incorporate. Because right now. I mean, asking the bus, asking GMT to even accommodate the 12 hour schedule at the hospital with an additional 20 minute stop. Is not happening. Yep. So, folks that get off that shift at night, wait. Sometimes 40 minutes to, you know, just the little things like that. And that sort of goes to the corridor. I mentioned earlier, the changes we made to that quarter with all the predicted departments that are going to be coming online. In the next five years in that route. And that section. And the reduction in parking that we've incorporated really kind of speaks to having good multi use paths and bike lanes. You know, so I'm getting a little bit of frustrating. Seeing the disconnect on the state level between we need to do this, but we're not going to throw any more money at GMT right now. Yeah, I'm not even talking about fair support. I'm just talking about basic support. You know, so they can, they can operate at the level that they need to, and it's not just happening here. It's happening in very right. It's all the whole full GMT service area. So anyway, that's not necessarily a complete CCRPC problem. But from a regional point of view, it affects everybody right. Yeah, all these things are connected, right? I mean, we didn't talk about climate change, sorry, but the state has set out a climate change priority. They set out a housing priority, which good, right? But they're all connected and like, yeah, where we develop, you know, the transit service is not going to be successful without more riders in these places. So please don't stop on the housing side. Even though, and I do think, and certainly, and just the transit financing model is, is not great in Vermont, and particularly for our urban area, right? So the state this past year said, okay, well, you know, I think it was $500,000 to continue fair free service in the rest of the state. It would have been $2 million to do it in Virginia County or for the GMT service area and willing to bite that, bite that bullet, right? And so that it, but I'm not sure it's really quite fair. We're not going to meet our climate goals or transportation goals or housing goals or all those without an effective transit service. So it is all interrelated. Yeah. And yeah, we're not actually in charge necessarily of any of that, but we're trying to, we try to help fold how things work together. You know, and so we did, we did some report, I guess a year or two ago on the transit financing, the legislature asked for a little follow up on that will be another conversation in Montpelier this spring. So please, please, there'll be probably an opportunity to weigh in. Yeah, thank you. Nothing more for me. Nothing. Anybody. Amber. All right. Well, thank you very much for coming. Yeah, thank you very much. Have a good night. Thank you. Take care. I've see Essex rescue presentation, and I believe yes. Colleen is here on zoom. You and I have accompanied me tonight. Peter who is our president of our board. And can speak to any questions you may have about any strategic planning, futuristic stuff, anything like that. So in going back and forth with Regina and sharing some of the new things that are going on with us and updates and changes that we're making operationally. We came to the conclusion that it'd be great to check in with the village and see what questions you have and just bring you up to date with some new things that are going on with us. Obviously, the last couple of years have been tough. And we were in front of the village board here for increases and discussing the financial challenges we were having in the workforce challenges we're having. We're slowly working through those things we are definitely coming out on the better side of things which is fresh air compared to where we've been still challenges in our future. There is a Vermont regional regionalization study that's taking place currently, but I've sent the information to Regina. And actually anybody is welcome to participate in a survey. Speaking about Vermont EMS and it's for all stakeholders to discuss the challenges that you've had that you're seeing, whether it be financial or response times or really anything. There are a few questions that the legislature has specifically asked the study to address, which is the main focus but any feedback you have there'll be an open meeting to all stakeholders October 30 at 9am at the Williston Fire Station. I also shared a survey link that people can access and provide feedback if you desire a more private setting, but I encourage as many people to get involved as possible. This certainly is affects everybody. Not just funding financially but as people who call and need the ambulance. It's definitely a service that everybody finds important. And, you know, it's definitely at risk right now. So, I believe, as part of your packet of information you were provided, kind of like a summary of kind of a year and review, you have that. Yes. Okay. And then I don't know if she also included the quarter three data that we've been silenced while sending to all the municipalities as well. I don't think that's in the packet that that's not part of it. Okay, we have it. Yeah. Okay. So, I can just run through these pretty briefly. So our call volume is up as expected. And it's even more scary that it's gone up at 250 calls in just this last quarter. So our call volume is on the rise at this point. We're on track to hit 3200 calls in January from 3044. That's a pretty big jump. The crews are averaging 8 to 10 calls a day. We are still experiencing the staffing shortages. However, I will say we have, I don't know what happened, but we've turned a corner and I have applications for employment coming out my ears. It's a great problem to have right now. We have made a few workforce changes allowing those that are volunteers who meet certain qualifications making them a front seater in the ambulance which adds a significant value to their position and their time spent training to obtain that position. We are now compensating them for that position. It has saved us quite a few people that we've put a lot invested a lot of time and training into that we're going to leave us either to go work at other places that would pay them for that skill set, or people who are working other jobs to make ends meet. This allowed them to continue on the ambulance and let one of those other extra jobs go, which I feel is a huge win for us being able to retain people that are okay doing this type of work because it doesn't work for everybody. That's a significant value for us so we are hoping fingers crossed that in the next month or two, we will be bringing on a second ambulance five days a week 12 hours a day. So we will have a truck from 545 to 545 am to 545 545 p.m. and then from eight to eight Monday through Friday we will have another a swing truck. So that puts us in a great place. I'm very pleased that we are working our way that direction. We have been in discussion with St. Michael's rescue Williston fire and Richmond rescue about the mutual aid boundaries St. Michael's continues to get all of a significant amount of our call volume and it's taxing their students significantly their enrollment is down. They don't have as many student volunteers as they once had. So, you know, they've got to keep the ones they have and they're burning them out on our call volume. So, being able to take more of our calls by having another ambulance is great, but also maybe reshuffling some of the boundaries. So now that Williston is online with an ambulance, which wasn't the case years ago when the matrix was made. That may also help support breaking up some of that call volume so Williston coming up. Park Street, for example, is closer than St. Mike's coming from the interstate side of things. So Williston would actually be a better choice for some of the locations in the junction than St. Michael's. So just small changes like that to best, you know, get ambulances there sooner and also make sure that we're not tapping out those resources as well. There is a couple tables on here one is our fiscal year ending expenditures, revenue and capital reserve. Very pleased and very grateful for the funding that all of our municipalities, you know, took the jump with us, because we were able to put funds into our capital reserve, which we haven't been able to do the last few years. For people that don't know our capital reserve is what funds the replacement of our ambulances and critical pieces of equipment and like our cardiac monitors, all of which continue to rise in cost. We are rechassing one of our ambulances, rather than buying a brand new one, and that saved us $150,000. The price of the ambulances have gone up another $100,000 and a three year wait time so everything's continuing to go up I'm sure we all know that any questions on on what I've discussed so far. I don't. I do. Marcus does. I do. Yes. So, as you looking at the call volume, I mean, and noticing and you're right, you've got that that increase this year but it looks like it's really the biggest impact is really coming from canceled mutual aid. Yep. Well, canceled mutual aid. Yeah. So, you. Sorry, I guess I want to understand a little bit more about that and the impact on on Essex rescue. Again, are you speaking about non transports. No, I'm the. So I see transports non transports and then the canceled mutual aid. But when I look at those numbers, relatively speaking, if I even if you look at it in comparison to 2020, it's relatively similar until you get to canceled mutual aid and then it, then it blows up. You saw, you saw a huge increase last year from 2020, but it's still very high. And so, again, thinking about your model of having ambulances ready to go, you're, and again, maybe I need to understand this better but you're not paying on a per call. You're paying your staff on a per call basis you're paying them to cover those hours. So therefore I'm trying to understand the impact of these calls against your expenses, you know how these impact your expenses, because you're paying for them. Hour to hour not on a per call basis. Am I not asking this right now, maybe I'm. Are you stumped her. So, so I'm trying to understand, yeah, because you're get, for the most part, and again understanding the fact that you, you've gotten you get reimbursements, primarily from transports. But when I see the increase of canceled mutual aid, how is that impacting your bottom line, how is that costing you more money. So, one of the differences here, and this is just a matter of understanding. I guess our definitions. So a non non transport means that there was actually a patient contact for us. Whereas a canceled mutual aid that doesn't just mean that that was a mutual aid call. Those are that includes calls that we responded to. But let's say it was a medical alarm. So there was actually no patient contact. So, so that does include calls that we to responded to, but those didn't necessarily have patients. Okay. Does that make sense. Okay, so then look, thinking about again, this year, and the fact that you have revenue in excess of your expenses, which allows you to put money into your capital reserve, which is fantastic. You were not able to you say for the past few years, can I get more clarity about like, how many years are we talking about and what would if you had been able to all along what would you have put into the capital reserve or what would you need in the capital reserve. On an annual basis in order to maintain a level that would allow you to purchase the necessary equipment. So I have been in this position for two years so I can speak to the two years that I've been in this position. And the biggest challenge we're facing is our payroll, our payroll has been in excess, needing to hire more people to fill the positions that the volunteers were no longer there to fill so that was a significant expense. When COVID hit, it took an even bigger hit on us. And that was $200 $300,000 the last two years that we weren't able to put away. What that meant is I have since had to extend the life of our ambulances, which is costing a significant amounts of money in repairs. So between having to pay more people to cover the ambulance, which wasn't an issue before to extending the life of ambulances that should have been replaced at six or seven years, not 10 and 11 years. I think that's probably the most significant issue. I think what you're getting to is there's all these calls that we're actually not responding to. So why are expenses going up? Yes. Is that basically the sum of that's what we're ahead. Yes. Yep. So in order for me to put another ambulance on the road. That's going to cost me to pay people to do so in order to keep that going. I'm going to have to put money into that, which means those calls right now that are sitting there as mutual aid or canceled. Those calls are now going to be moving over to the non transport or transport section. Those should be calls that Essex rescue is responding to a majority of them, not St. Michael's, not Williston, not Richmond. There is always going to be overflow. But the goal is to really decrease those numbers and be accountable to those calls. All right. Thank you that that helps clarify that. So last, last question I'll let you, let you move on is again, what would be the average? What's the average impact on on a patient if you respond to my house because I need it and what is the average cost of transport I'm thinking about. And I know later on you're going to get into the subscription and pieces that nature, but I'm kind of curious about the average cost of a transport. Well, there's a lot of things that come into play with cost. There's a lot of variables, but I will say it could be upwards of $3,000 for a paramedic level, a really, really sick person going by ambulance. It could be as much as $300. As a basic transport low mileage, just sitting with you monitoring you on the way to the hospital, no invasive procedures, checking your vital signs talking to you. That's pretty much what you're looking at. Can I just clarify? Were you asking about cost to the patient or cost of Essex rescue to support the call? I was thinking about the patient, but it's an it's an it's an interesting distinction. Because as I said, I'm thinking about two factors that I know you're going to talk about here in a second with the 30,000 of unpaid non transport, as well as the subscription that you're going to talk about in a second. I'm curious, again, those numbers help me understand your your upcoming requests concerning the increase as well as, you know, again, how you're looking at these things and finding ways to offset. So anyway, I'll let you continue. Thank you. I think thanks Pete for bringing up. I realized that there's new people joining these groups and not everybody was here for the presentation. Last year, so the ambulance transports and if I'm saying anything that you're already aware of, please tell me so I don't pour anybody else with this. But there's a cost for readiness and there's a cost for the service being provided to the individual. And one of them is partially funded and then the other one is coming from mainly our municipalities. So the cost to have the ambulance, their staff ready to go and equipment already everything within date, all of those things isn't that funding doesn't come from anywhere other than our subscriptions and from our municipalities that we serve. As far as the service being provided. That is, I don't even know if I call it partially covered by insurance revenue for the services being provided to the individual. So, are you familiar with insurance billing for for medical insurance. I hate to say it, but yes. And I'm, and I have been well serviced by SS rescue personally so I'm well familiar with how my insurance dealt with that. So leaves us with a pretty significant loss basically that we have to try and make up for without compromising our ability to continue providing reliable care. And as we continue to have to pay people and bring more ambulances online that's something that we're trying to prepare for ahead of time versus this like what happened the last couple years which I really had no control over before taking this position, which was not preparing for it and then having this large ask. I'm hoping that this something comes out of this regional study that I'm on the committee for because this doesn't just affect us here this is a this is a huge issue everywhere in the US Vermont system is very outdated and was, you know it worked well for its intentions at the beginning when people weren't billed for the service and people were all volunteer supporting the ambulance. That was all great, but we have surpassed that, and we haven't made any adjustments to keep up with that. Any other questions on that. Let's see here. Capital campaign new building project Pete you want to talk on that real quick. Oh, did we lose him. Peter may have. We might have he was just there one second ago. That was very convenient. Now to you. One talking point and he disappears. Absolutely perfect timing. That was horrible timing. Peter, would you like to tell people about the capital campaign and building project? Sure. So, for a number of years now as rescue has realized that the current headquarters, which we have over at one educational drive right by the high school has not been meeting our needs for a number of different reasons and I'm happy to continue this conversation with anyone who would like some more details about that. But so we embarked on a capital campaign to raise funds for a new building. And we did not have the foresight to recognize COVID coming down the path and ran headlong into that. So our capital campaign program has paused and we are in the midst of figuring out our next steps to reinvigorate it. And figure out the next headquarters for Essex rescue. We have made a couple of steps forward and one of which is the purchase of property over off of Essex way from the langs at the Lang farm over there, which is a developable piece of property. And that is one that we're speculating on building for and then there are also some other areas where we potentially have partnership opportunities to look at joint ventures for a potential building. All options are on the table right now and we are continuing to explore how we're going to get our capital campaign relaunched and raise those funds and take the steps forward for the for the next building. Any other questions for Peter? I don't I don't have any right now. Thank you. All right, so our annual subscription will be going out soon. We're not making any changes to the subscription plan as far as price goes but for those of you that are unaware of what this is. Essex rescue offers an annual subscription to households. It's not the person some subscriptions are paid for by the person or they have a cap. We don't do that. It's $50 per household for the year calendar year January 1 to December 31. You don't have to be related. You don't have to have health insurance. If you were to be transported or I should even say transported if you were to receive services from Essex rescue. Essex rescue will bill your insurance and then whatever deductible or remaining amount that is unpaid, we write off. And last year we brought in I think it was $126,000 through the subscription plan and that was that was not that was only 2400 subscriptions just for a sense of how many that is. Essex rescue serves a population of almost 32,000. So there's a fairly good number of people that aren't subscribed to this that we are working on now that the reporters reprinting and the Mountain Gazette is printing and we have more avenues to get this information out. We are going to push harder to make sure that it's out there for people to take advantage of the biggest change this year, which I think is part of that discussion is we are Essex rescue will now be holding patients accountable for non transport bills. So the state changed our protocols requiring that anytime an ambulance is called, we will now be required to perform a full assessment on somebody before we can leave the scene, we can no longer arrive. If somebody initially had a complaint upon their phone call to 911 and we arrive at the doorstep, we have to obtain a non transport form, which is a form that basically ensures that the patient is being exited from the healthcare system appropriately and legally. So we perform an assessment, we complete paperwork, we make sure that they are fully aware of the risks of not going to the hospital. They sign off. Occasionally we must connect with a physician in the ER due to the complaints of the person and the risks of the refusal. But we, you know, sign the paperwork with them and we leave that time that we've spent on scene with that individual can go anywhere from an hour to two hours. It can involve a simple lift assist. It can involve dealing with somebody having mental health crisis and it takes a long time to work with them to figure out solutions or find them the right destination or help resources. So it's changed from when we get there and they say, oh, I don't need you anymore. You know, it's having chest pain, but it's gone. Those days are no longer upon us. So due to that change and also some of the uses that we're being called for these days that are not true emergencies, we are going to start holding patients accountable. Essex Rescue has billed for these services for a couple years now. The difference is if the amount of the bill was $250 or less, Essex Rescue wrote it off. We didn't ever send anybody to collections because of the amount of money that we are in fact writing off, not just because people are just not paying their bills, but also through these non-transports is a pretty significant loss. And in the end it comes back to taxpayers. So we have all sorts of things in place to assist people with the costs of this. A non-transport for us just coming and assessing you is $150. There are insurances that cover it, but there's also insurances that don't. So if you subscribe $50 for the year, there's no cap on this, you're covered. If you don't do this and you end up receiving a bill and it is a financial hardship, we have payment plans, we have hardship forms that people can submit, that we look at financials to family size, and we'll work with people on this. But the days of having people not pay their $2,000 bills and everyone else is responsible for it just can't be the answer anymore. So it is a significant change. It's not one that I like. Quite frankly, I don't think any of us like having to, under circumstances of an emergency, hold anybody to this type of thing. But today in healthcare, you don't expect to receive any sort of healthcare and not have to pay something for it. I think our $50 plan is better than any plan that I've ever seen come out of my health insurance or health services. But if anybody is curious for the city of Essex Junction, the third quarter here, Essex Rescue responded to 354 calls and 43 of those required paramedic intervention. So from January 1st to today, we've responded to 854 calls in the junction. Just some, you know, fun data for you. Does anybody else have any other questions for me? Andrew? No, Marcus? No, I will say that I did just do the other day when I was reading this and based on a number from one of the other discussions, we have about 2,500 households in this city of Essex Junction, which would, if everyone participated, raise about $125,000 for us to rescue. Amber, I can't see you. Do you have any questions for Colleen? Oh, I don't. She already answered them. Thanks. Okay. Great. Colleen, I appreciate you joining us. I don't have any further questions. I appreciate getting your annual ask early, what we would consider early. So thank you very much for that. I think the increase is modest and I think I'm not going to speak for everybody. I understand where it's coming from. I guess I will say that I hope you have success on the statewide committee that you're on, regional committee, excuse me, being heard and that you include us in any conversations. You know, that include any kind of systemic change to how this, how this all works, you know, we're, we're counting on your service as a community. So we wouldn't, we would appreciate being involved in, as we can. In conversations and staying involved, you know, we appreciate the contact. So thank you. Absolutely. Regina, did you have anything that you wanted to bring up around this? I don't. Um, you know, I haven't to date tonight, but I'm going to reach out because I see a hand up in the gallery. So Colleen, if you could stick around for a couple more minutes, somebody wants to ask you a question. Annie, you have your hand up. I do. Thanks. Hi Colleen. Thanks for all you do and you've done personally for my, you know, as Chris goes done for my family. Is there Colleen a, and maybe you said this, I was walking the dog while listening on my phone. I'm sorry. Is there a button or an opportunity for a person to purchase the year for another family? And secondarily to that, because I think a lot of people would do that. I like Marcus's math that he just did. And then secondarily is there a space where people could apply for that? And I don't know that maybe that's too much work for you all. I don't know how to, how that would be determined. But I think that collectively the number, I'm not, I'm not sure if Marcus is talking about home ownership or actual residents. I'm not sure how to define that. But I think there's a way to, to discuss this publicly that can bring about some support for people who do have that extra. I'm sorry. What was the year amount again? 126? Are you talking about the subscription? Yeah, the subscription for a family. Is it just 50? 50. I mean, I think that there's a lot of people that would do it on that 15. I think there's a way to cover more people, but I don't want to put work on you guys. So if there is something like that, or if there's nothing like that, I'm happy to help create it. If I don't know if a volunteer could do that in your, you know, I think that's probably a little tricky. But I really think that people would step up and then you would find yourselves in a healthier position to be able to accommodate. Especially you might be able to build a fund that is supportive of the problems you just discussed. Because personally, you know, my mind is going to universal healthcare while you're saying we can't expect, right? So I understand that you can't expect a hundred percent with you. But I wonder if there's a way to create a scenario whereby people are like, oh, yes, I would absolutely. But I know that complicates things and I know you are all overworked. So I don't mean to put work on your plate. I just wanted to throw the concept out there and I really appreciate your time and thank you for all your work and energy. So this isn't actually, this is the second time that I've heard somebody raise the question of being able to gift that to someone else. I think that is an incredible gift and perhaps we could come up with some sort of a voucher. The hard part with the subscription is that it's an agreement between SX Rescue and the individual receiving the service. So we have to be careful that we're not putting somebody into agreement that they haven't themselves agreed to. But perhaps there's a voucher or something that we could create that you could give to somebody. And all they have to do is submit the paper or submit something online. That seems like that could be a very, a very doable thing. Maybe great. So I'm going to hold on. I'm going to ask the two of you to connect outside of this meeting to work out the details. So I'll be honest with you for a second. I think we should let us have this one more interaction because anybody watching this is healthy for in my opinion. I'm going to move, I'm going to move us on. I really encourage you and appreciate the conversation where it's gone. Ask the two of you to connect offline. So thank you both very much. Colleen thank you and Peter. I really appreciate it. We're going to move the meeting on here and let us know in that instance that there's anything we can do. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. I don't see anybody else for their hand up. And there's nobody in the room. So we are going to move on to. Business item 5d. And act as the cannabis control board commission. Or. Do you want to introduce this? Yes. Okay. Good. Can I ask a quick question on procedure? Cause if I recall it for like liquor control, but you. Exit one meeting enter another. Do you have to do the same for this? It doesn't appear so. Okay. I mean, we've only done it once, but it doesn't remember doing that. Yeah, the liquor licenses, they tend to be on the consent agenda. And it's just clear that you're acting on. As that body. Okay. Okay. So I think folks are fairly well familiar with this. This application. Essentially. You have 60 days to make the decision. There is some. Discrepancy, even on the 60 days, the, there have new cannabis rules that talk about. The local cannabis control commission making a decision within 45 days. The email that told us about this application and active rules as best as 1 can tell from the website are pretty clear that they still on the 60 day rule. So, given that it means that you have until October 25th to make a decision on this application. Essentially what you have in the packet is. The information from the DRB's decision. So just very quick summary. From staff and myself and zoning administrators. Take on age 270 is that the ability of the municipality to use your zoning regulation to dictate where outdoor cannabis can happen. It is. Not permissible and it might take of it based on what the changes they made in age 270. The DRB that non action decision of the zoning administrator. Was appealed to the development review board. The development review board essentially aligned with that. And think that the. Outward cannabis cultivation use can stay. The last step on the city's aspect from that perspective is this license to be issued by the candidate control commission. So my recommendation is that this license can be issued should be issued. But I know there is a lot of questions around this legislation and how it works and. And the DRB decision itself so. I think we can take those questions and just know that you've got. Two more weeks to actually make the decision on the 25th. Okay. I am also noticing just so everybody is aware, but I don't see Jason here. And I'm looking at our handy dandy spreadsheet that we've been using to make sure people are properly invited. And he's not on that list. Which is my fault. So it is possible that Jason doesn't know that we're having this conversation tonight. And continuing to the 25th would probably be better. Due to that oversight, if you had questions that you wanted to ask him because just want you to know that he's not it's possible he's not here because he wasn't told that we were doing this. Well, then if for no other reason, I think we should continue on the 25th. I do know that we, we have several questions and we're going to take the opportunity later to speak with our attorney, I think on this topic. But overall, overall, if he's not here, I think we'll do that. And any of our council members have any questions related to this, we can talk about it now a bit and continue it. I do have one specific question. And it relates to rule two on the cannabis rules. And under two dash a two dot four dot five. And this is based on the fact that what I heard in testimony from neighbors during the DRB and its proximity to the high school. I have a question about whether or not an inspection is either been done or can we do an inspection according to 2.4.5. It looks like we can do an inspection to verify the security on of the property. So I would like to see that done, if possible. So based on that, and based on Jason now being present. I would agree that we should move this to the 25th for approval or disapproval. I think that my reading of that rule in the It's rule two of the campus regulations is it refers to the board doing a physical site visit. I don't know that that automatically means that you folks as a local commission can do that, but I will certainly look into it. Great. I think all my questions are going to be the result of our conversation later. And since we're continuing, I'll ask the next week, but I'm going to pull zoom up to make sure he hasn't joined. And Amber, did you have anything you wanted to add here now? Okay. All right. I, you know, I'll ask the basics. Are we comfortable? We have it in front of us. So I'm assuming we're comfortable. We have all the documentation we need. We've received everything we want. We were allowed to get from the state. Great. So, without any action on this. Oh, if we're going to table it, we probably need a motion to table it. Or do we just hold. Yeah, procedural point of view. Yeah, you're just not making a decision. We'll have it on the agenda again for the 20. Okay. Can I take it? Speak on this. Do we do that for community? We do public to be heard for. Is this a deliberative session right now? No. Sure. Come on up, please. Thank you. And if you, sir, it's James Lee. James Grimsley. Okay. Yes. Thank you for allowing me the time here. It's been a great experience actually listening to you guys do this work and I really am grateful for it. As we create the dialogue around canvas in our communities, I think it's important to realize that there are two really important veins of this one is certainly THC and its effects of the drug and protectionism around that and how it should be handled, but also as a building material. And the sativa hemp plant is a 15 foot plant that may be mistaken for this. So as we start to build the language around it, I think it's important to know that there's a there's a why in the road here. The talks and the skin of the plant are extremely valuable and we'll learn in short order how valuable that is with ethical answers for things that we're seeing and I'm seeing a building, but as we move forward just that why and understanding that how we approach it and address it is, you know, important. So, so language building suggestion, but thank you for allowing me. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for joining us. Let's see is there anyone else there's no one else in the room is there anyone else on online that wants to add to this conversation, such as it was. Let's give it a second about seeing any. Okay. So I think from here. We have 5e discussion of discussion and consideration of state cannabis legislation recommendation. Sorry, excuse me a second. Prior to this last legislative session. It, it seemed, I'll say, relatively clear the canvas legislation is quite unclear from the starting place, but it seemed quite clear that what the city did in land development code regulations was in accordance with the municipal guidance on what you can do, which is you can use your zoning to define where the establishments can go without a clear prohibition of any of those establishments throughout the city. The changes that they just made it in h2 70, which is at 65 of 2023. Really in my read of it eliminates the ability for local municipalities to use that zoning tool or your ordinances to regulate outdoor cannabis cultivation specifically. So this seems like it will have a different impact in a rural environment than it will in a much more densely populated environment where the smell from these plants do permeate and expand beyond property lines. And I think what we're have heard for some folks is it's become a real nuisance and limiting their ability to enjoy their backyards. The, so the recommendation here is to make some recommendations to the legislature to see if there can be some. I don't know correction is the right word or because it sounds like from speaking with some folks that they're didn't intend to have the legislation go quite this far but it seems pretty clear that the legislation has gone this far. To bring some semblance of understanding of how this will impact an urban environment versus rural environment. The legislature has talked about. Setting up different rules based on urban and rural environments under a number of different categories, I would say active 50 being probably the biggest one in terms of can we define as state. Where we want development to go and maybe we don't need active 50 there versus where the state could really benefit from having those environmental protections. So defining this is a pretty, pretty difficult concept, but they did an age 100 just in the last legislative session as well. Made some of those housing rules for local municipalities based on this concept of where we have service of water and sewer versus not thinking about it in that way. Some municipalities will have sections of their municipality that serve by water and sewer and other sections of the municipality that are not served by water and sewer so this rule wouldn't be just sort of a blanket municipality why it really would be we're we're talking about defining tightening to those boundaries. So, my suggestion here is that we make that recommendation to our reps and senators and yeah. Yeah, I see the word reasonable and regulations so yeah that will, that will, I think we want to perhaps put some time into what we think that is. We've heard from some lawmakers that they were in crafting this considering issues like they had in Charlotte I believe where a very large landowner felt that they were being zoned out. But there was actually quite a bit so they're thinking about a more rural area and communities basically that didn't want cannabis in their area. Coming up with creative ways to say that they couldn't have it. And when presented with a situation like we see ourselves and we're a little stumped and admitted that that wasn't really part of the consideration as Regina mentioned. Having watched some testimony from the last session. It does seem intentional that they dismissed concerns of odor at the boundary of a property that they were not concerned and in fact wanted to make sure that communities couldn't regulate odor. Otherwise they admitted by doing and out in committee that the purpose of that seem to be well if we we don't prevent them from. Considering odor as a nuisance anymore than there will be no more cannabis cultivation. So in that we have it we have this the legislature saying this creates a nuisance. It creates a nuisance that's over and above any other nuisance that we know in the state. It's not farming. That's incidental. It's not manufacturing that's covered under other rules. This is persistent for many weeks or months. And so they purposely carved that out. So I think one of the requests has to be, you know, restoring in those areas. I think it's a responsibility to mitigate the impact on the residents. And then, you know, and I think when you look at a community like ours, you know, I think the other ask has to be and I will stop talking a minute. The other ask has to be the removal of that requirement that a community must host it. Because even though we identified. A zone in our zoning for this to occur. That was simply by something that we had already designated as agriculture. There's really nothing difference in that area in terms of how many people live per square mile or square. Half mile or acre than anywhere else in our community. So they will have to remove or reconsider the idea that a community that is defined either by sewer or water as the ability to take that out to say no, because if it were a perfect world or indoor, for instance, which we've seen work without an incident without without issue. And it weren't impacting other people. Then I would feel much differently about it. But unfortunately, this isn't farming vegetables. And this isn't just a problem we've seen here. This has happened in other states where they've done it. So that's, I think those are a few of the things that we need to be very specific about. And I do think that the idea and what we can talk about this later, but I do think that the idea that. Well, stop there. I think those 2 are pretty important. I don't see how a community like ours finds a place where it's appropriate. And I'll change the word appropriate where it doesn't have a negative impact on the neighbor. And I don't know that we want to favor. 1 activity industry business over the. Quality of life of the people around them. I don't know how you make that. Moral distinction between who, who is allowed to. Negatively impact someone else. So anyway, that's kind of my initial input on this. And I do actually think there's going to be support in the legislature for this in some way in some areas. I'm presenting. Anybody else. I'm happy to make the motion and even suggest that if you want Raj, you work with Regina on the letter. I mean, are there other things that we can add something to the discussion before we get there? Yeah. So I want, I want to make the distinction too, because as you mentioned, I think there's 2 very distinct. Things going on here. There is the ability for us to zone within our municipality. And then there is the ability to enforce. I understand the reason for. Eliminating the ability to call. To use nuisance odor. While having lived in rural communities before and having been in many other states and communities that do allow this as well. I know the order can be an impact, but at the same time, if you are farming this on a large scale or a larger scale. I can understand wanting and need or needing to legislatively protect their ability to have those particular businesses. That aside, I do recognize it as impact. In a community like ours that is so densely populated. I think I would. If we could get. The ability to zone our municipality. The nuisance doesn't become really a problem for us. As a community that could be wrong. But at least then we would have the local control be able to say, look, we're okay with it here. We're not here. Because I can imagine. Let's just say. I decided it wanted to become. You know, a field of cannabis. There's a number of closely dense neighborhoods right there that would be impacted by that odor. But I can understand also, look, we've allowed it. So therefore, I don't think you can have both. We have, we have to kind of prioritize and I think for this particular product for the, what I believe was the intention of the CCB originally. I think it's okay that we not have the ability to regulate based on odor. But I disagree with our inability to regulate on a zoning basis. I hear what you're saying. I just don't see the point in regulating on zoning if you're just going to drive someone who's already been there out of their home. And I think we're going to hear from someone a few minutes for their hand up who feels like they're being driven from their home. So I hear you, I, I think we should, I think that's going to be an interesting debate next session and how they, how they play it. My worry about not asking for one without the other is they've demonstrated a willingness to carve out in very, very unusual and confusing ways to the point where even the lawmakers that reported these bills out of committee. Don't understand what they say. So there's disagreement among that core of lawmakers that produce the legislation as to what it actually means. For that reason alone, I think they're going to address it, some of it, but I worry that if there's not the ability to see for me it's sort of like the legislature said, they made a few years ago or some point over the last few years I don't have the facts in front of me. They basically changed. They changed what an HOA could prevent if I'm understanding this right. They, they made a law that's they passed a law that's basically said by understand it. An HOA can't prohibit an ADU. But it didn't impact current HOAs. Right. And the way I see this is they're pushing through this right now and impacting zoning that pre existed homeowners and properties that pre existed. Life experiences and quality of life and communities that pre existed. And I don't. To my core understand how you can do that on one end and not have the same consideration global with everything. And so for me, it's, it's, it's a bigger question of. It even goes down to what you're telling what the state can tell us we have. I mean, we're being told right now that whole exercise. We just did this silly little CCB thing. There's according to our according to what our official understanding from our attorney and our management is on what our actual role is that is a completely useless exercise. Right. We have no abilities for being told that we have to go if we want to participate. We just basically have to rubber stamp it. And I can tell you that this right this has taken dozens and dozens and dozens of staff hours. And we get no fee for the application. Right. So I think it comes from the state. Not from the applicant in the state. So the states. Okay, maybe they get it from there and they're just passing through. I don't know how it works, but. So I think it's, it's, it's, it's even, you know, it's it's even bigger than the crop. I mean, this could be anything. This could be an Amazon data center with all the noise and that it produces. And I would have the same reaction and say that doesn't belong in a neighborhood. It really is not about the cannabis. Unfortunately, that product produces side effects that are environmental for a period of time. Otherwise, outside of that time, there's no notice. Right. I think the CCB is adequately at, you know, come up with rules that make it relatively harmless for the nobody knows. It's fine. I understand. I understand. But let me use your data center example, for instance, again, even in the current example of what we're talking about on Taft, right? If we were allowed to enforce our zoning, this problem would be solved. In the data center example, our zoning, if allowed to enforce our zoning, would be solved. You don't need the nuisance. The nuisance is an add on. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. My only concern, like I said before, my only concern is that we're specific. Otherwise, as they've demonstrated, they will, they may, they may consider, I'll call them shenanigans to carve it out. Yes, you can have your zoning. No problem. But you can't regulate voter at the boundary. And, and I, you know, that governance subcommittee testimony hearing is on is on YouTube. That is literally part of the discussion. We can do this, but we're not going to let anybody do. And I'm, and that we're trying to stand up in industry and they're trying to deal with it in communities that are doing and there. That was part of the conversation. Ordinance gymnastics to keep them out because they just didn't want it. And I think that needs to be addressed. And I think they miss, they missed on it a bit. Yeah. So, you know, and to the point where they, they've done this huge blanket thing. And it's, and it's impacting communities in ways of the time, right? So. Yeah, no, absolutely. And, you know, again, looking at all that legislation. They specifically almost right at the beginning say, in our, in our role as a local commission, right, were to enforce the rules based on zoning. But then later on, their adaptation in each 270 takes that all away. That's what we've kind of, I think, summarily come to. Yep. That being said, again, you know, and I get your point. I think we can have that conversation. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have that conversation. I'm simply saying if we got at the end of the day, the ability to enforce Arizona. These kinds of problems are then saw, we have that control. That being said, one of the things I did want to ask concerning this and I think it's a very creative solution. Talking about water and sewer. But in my own research, I just want to verify is talking about an area served by water and sewer. The, the, the legal language or is it speaking to our ones are twos versus other types of zones. Because if we're if we're making this ask, are we asking them to allow that zoning regulation in our ones are twos, or is this truly the legal language needed that it's in areas served by water. So, from the state level, there's no standardization of how people refer to residential zoning districts. And we have a lot of areas that are a mix of residential plus other types of mixed uses. So. If we try to define it by zoning district, I think that would just be very hard. But I think your central point of restoring a community's ability to decide. So there are many communities in the state, if I'm not wrong, that don't zone at all. Right. There's no planning in that respect. They could have water and sewer. But in their, in their center village areas, potentially, I don't know if any at the time I had maybe maybe there's nobody, but there are many that don't. But restoring a community's ability to make the decisions for themselves on. Yeah, it's going to be a tricky balance for them, like defining how to do it and. And what that boundary between. Yeah, I mean, I think that I think that the water sewers. The most recently used and probably the best place to start. It's probably going to leave some places out. But. You know, is there any part of this Regina? Do you think or any other counselors think that. You know, they, they tried to get around some of this by. Again, I think legislative gymnastics around. It's farming. It's not farming. It's agriculture. It's not agriculture. And those designations, I mean, do we want to jump into that. Area that we just going to see how this whole other part of this plays out. I mean, I think. From. From my perspective at this stage of the game, it's, we should just be. Try to be as succinct and clear about what it is our issue is and what do we think is the best way to solve that. They have mired up the farming and the cannabis. In such a way, I wouldn't even begin to know how to suggest they. Step away from that or undo that. To the point where I, I could see myself recommending something in a letter and it could have a whole slew of consequences that I may have not intended. I guess I meant more and I wasn't clear. Sorry. I was absolutely not clear. I guess I meant more along the lines of, and it's, it's a really separate conversation potentially. Of the state's ability in those same areas. To designate a farm operation. Because if the state is going to say. That's fine. You can do all this. I can see, I can see next May. Having a bill come out that fixes all this, except for farms. And the agency of ag still having the ability to turn around and say. That's a farm, even though it's in areas that, you know. I mean, I can see that muddying up the muddying up the conversation. I mean, is it. I can think of, and only in respect to like livestock, we're not, we're not talking lettuce. I mean, I'm talking, you know, the current issue up on in the village right now was centered around livestock. In the, in the, in ducks. So, is there an ask there to say. That's similar. I mean, it's a similar theme. You know, this is a. This is an activity that you've said is okay in an environment that really doesn't. It could be very difficult and I'm not even convinced that the property in question meets the qualifications for buffers and everything else. It's too small. You know, I think that there's a parallel ask there to say those requirements or that ability for the state to grant a farm operation for. Maybe it's just livestock only, you know, because it's a different if it's a different. Operation than having a vegetable farm. Yeah, it's a good, it's a good point. I mean, to me, both of these battles seem like uphill battles that one seems like a complete vertical rise and very hard for me to imagine that there would be any movement on it. And according to wrong about that. I mean, I don't think any of us is anti farm, but I think we heard testimony at the last year be meaning that there are unintended consequences of. Of mixing the two and we've already, you know, established. A process and a comfortable level of having chickens in the city and that hasn't. So anyway, that's all I've got to add to this tonight unless anybody has any other specifics, we can work on the background potentially, but Amber, did you have anything you wanted to add. You know, Virginia, do you feel like you've got what we want what you need. I do think I have what I mean. Okay. Do you have anything you want to add. Don't have to. Right. We'll start with zoom right now. Stevens. Hand Steven knows his hand has been up for quite a while. So Steven, did you have some comments you wanted to make on this topic? Hey, I did. Thank you. I think you've touched on quite a lot that I plan to ask about. I think that it's. You know, you've got 2 or 3 different topics here. 1 is asking for clarification on current rules. And that's, that's kind of where this, you know, what the agenda item was listing, you know, please say, tell us. What you actually mean. And, you know, as has been brought up. The same section of the statute says that municipalities may regulate and also says they may not. You know, so, you know, that's something that would certainly confuse me. The. So I guess if you're, if you're looking at a request, which by the way, that's current form, you know, I'm all for. And with a bunch of additions as well, but even even as, you know, as little as what's currently there. You know, just asking for clarification. That's great. You know, asking about rule changes. I don't know. I don't know if that's an appropriate thing for a city council to do. I would certainly do it as a concern citizen, but, you know, that's, it's something that kind of that I thought of when, when this topic came up. So, I definitely have some suggestions for additional asks. If you are open to asking for changes. And I think that I think this might get to Marcus's point as well, actually as well as yours, that, you know, as an example, there's currently a pro a state level prohibition against retail sales near. Near a school. And outdoor cultivators are required to have their crops be hidden from the road. But there's a significant odor as, as I think we, you know, all discover. And when that odor is in a place where children walk to school. You know, I didn't know what it was, but on a walk, we met a mother and daughter and the teenage daughter do it themselves. You know, so if you're trying to keep this stuff away from kids, then there perhaps should be a prohibition against outdoor cultivation within the same buffer zone around it, around a school. Similarly to get to, you know, if you can, if you can make rules for nuisances such as as smell at them at the boundaries, then there can still be a rule like the chicken rule right for for chicken heads. Well, some people want more. A lot of people don't want any on their own yards, but it's a reasonable compromise. So, you know, you had mentioned setbacks, you know, asking that there be a setback from property boundaries would be reasonable and something, you know, 50 to 100 feet. You know, 50 feet doesn't prevent this now 100 feet might help with really small operations. That type of thing would also or that type of ask that type of a rule of that sort would at least give. There's a definition definition of reasonable, right. Rather than any individual just saying hey, I, I don't like it and therefore it should go away. Heidi, could you mute your microphone. I'm sorry to interrupt. No problem. No problem at all. And that's a perfect example of why, you know, if there's a, if there's a, if there's something written in the law, that's something that people can all agree to follow, even if they might work to change it. Right, but at least it's something that we all have and we can all say look, here's, here's, we disagree but here's the definition of how we have to deal with it. So, I think there were some other things that are confusing to me partly because I'm not a lawyer. When reading scanning or perusing the statutes as you know, my temperament can allow. One of these was the, there are again contradictions between prohibition of an establishment and the wording has me just wondering what do they mean a specific establishment versus a type of establishment. I, I recall 20, 30 years ago when somebody wanted to open a strip club in South Burlington, there was this went on for years that that there were rules. I think ordinances discussed and maybe passed and lawsuits all over the place. And so preventing that kind of thing makes perfect sense. But zoning, especially preexisting zone, and I think that's, that's another point you brought up is, you know, if we, if we have a situation already, and they want to make a change, the state decides that there should be a change. There's got to be some consideration for the status quo. And I guess the, the last thing I'll say is yes, what you brought up farming as well, which again is, I agree with Regina that's more of a cliff than a hill to climb. But, you know, the, the whole DRB thing that that went on, you know, that, that's been a very difficult thing I think for everyone involved. And, you know, a similar level of clarification, I would, I would be all for asking for that. You know, as to if the intent is really to get rid of, or is to usurp essentially all local zoning, when a farm determination is granted, then they should just spell it out. And if it's not, then they can spell that out too. You know, the, it's pretty, it seems easy to a non expert that a rule could be written or an additional paragraph be written that says that local zoning still applies for local zoning doesn't apply. And it certainly certainly would have saved us a lot of time, effort and money. If that had been in the rules in either direction. So just, you know, I think, I guess, sorry to sum up. Yeah, clarification would be great. I think it's a bigger. It's a bigger issue to ask for any significant changes and, you know, the law of unintended consequences. Things may not work out the way that you hope. Thank you. Thank you. That did bring up another little, you know, a couple places in the new act 65. It talks about this now enjoys the presumption that it does not produce a nuisance. I can't remember the exact language, but there's the presumption in there that which then puts the puts the onus for dealing with it. Yeah, on the landowner that has an issue as opposed to the city or the municipality to them mitigate. And I think I just think that's wrong. I think if if a landowner that's being that's feeling that something is being done wrong shouldn't have to have the financial wherewithal to hire attorneys and go through that process. And that's discriminatory. At its base, I think if that's why the city municipality, the entity of government is there is to take that on and if they take that away and give it this protection. I just think that's sort of what's been done here in a way. And it's going my soapbox in this country has a big history of doing that kind of thing to areas areas of communities that don't have the power to speak back. But anyway, One more speaker, any Cooper. Is it true that the state of Vermont ruled that anybody is allowed to backyard grow. And is it true that, for example, rise your neighbor. If they want to grow, they can grow, I think four plans. And if that's true, then what, you know, I feel a little bit confused about the city's approach to this in general it feels. Like, you're using the word control a lot. And I just feel a little confused. I'm, I don't smoke marijuana. I never have it's not for me. And so I don't have any skin in the game in general. I'm just confused by our approach. So anyway, my questions are, is it true that the state rule that anybody is allowed to backyard grow. And is it true that if one of your, for example, wanted to grow, I think they can go for. Thanks. I didn't quite understand the second part of your question. They could grow. I missed the last couple words. So, I think it's four plans that someone can backyard grow without asking anyone. It can be outside. It can be and they can for personal use, they can just grow it. I don't know the details of the personal growth, personal use. Part of the act, Annie. So I don't know. Thanks. I do know that I do know that communities have around the country that have legalized cannabis have successfully implemented order, order, order ordinances. To handle this, which I think was part of the reason the legislature purposely carved it out so that didn't happen to promote and I think I'm not putting words in their mouth. I think that was. Part of the conversation and the approach. If that's what you're asking in terms of like what a neighbor can and can do. I was not asking anything about order. I was asking about the legality of if someone can backyard grow marijuana for personal use and that do you know that which is surprising that you don't because you're in a big conversation about it. And then if so, you know that does that does it should be in conversations about this so people understand the laws if you're going if we're going to talk about these things I think we should talk about all of it. The part I don't know any is how many plants and what the process is they have to go to specifically because we've been dealing with a slightly different issue. People are certainly permitted to grow but what hoops they have to jump through and paperwork they may not have to file. I'm not aware of the 4 to 6 I believe I want to say it's 4 and 12 immature plants but I could be wrong. 4 plants with grown in the typical s extension neighborhood. Layout with maybe 6 to 8 feet buffer between homes. After modifications been made means that someone could have an open window. In the season where those plants are maturing and causing a nuisance and right now the concern I think for the city is that we have residents. Who are concerned or being impacted and feel that there's nothing anybody can do to help them not have that. Multi week or multi month impact so I think we're trying to figure out right now not how we can have. You know more control than we need we're trying to figure out how we can you know literally do what. What we're asked to do which is. You know keep the community running and mitigate. Nuisance issues and whatnot you know if there was a way to welcome this into the community where it didn't impact anybody. I think every one of us would probably be all for that. But that that hasn't turned out to be the case I don't want to speak for anybody else I'd probably be all for it. But that hasn't. Turned out to be the case unfortunately so we're trying to figure out. How we can what we can ask for so that the state can balance its desire to have this industry grow. Without negatively impacting. In our case a densely populated community. So that's kind of what we're at right now. But again we're not talking about person. We're not talking about we're not talking about that at all talking. I'm just saying I'm just saying that the conversation when being had should have all the supporting features and facts about those things. That's all. Thank you. What were you gonna say sorry. No I would simply say Annie I understand what you're saying but I would say that we are talking about it. The personal use does not apply here because we're not talking about any impact to that. We're not talking about any changes that we're only talking about outdoor cultivations we're talking about much. We're talking about larger operations in a densely populated area. I appreciate that Marcus it is and it is outdoor that I'm talking about and what I'm suggesting is that if we're going to talk about the topic in general even in one way. The knowledge when someone asked a question should be had at the table by all of you. Thank you. All right. So, it looks like you have Virginia you have what we need on that. I'm sure come up again. At some point. Sure. Again, my name is James and thank you for having me in this conversation. I think there's a third wrong here that we're missing and that's composting. And I'm going to tell you the story directly. In May. Someone use the term outhouse to the anonymous system at the state level in the town manager triggered faith fully the health compliant officer to come to my house. And her words, you're all set. Why she didn't discover a hole in the ground. He didn't discover in 1932. Quite honestly trigger word or legal system of outhouse what she discovered was simple. Three been composting that any one of us can do was sawdust and wood chips and leaves and hay and straw. The way our ancestors have done for thousands of years. I know this I live right here in the city. So I'm here to say it plainly when we talk to the state about what we're talking about cannabis cultivate cultivation. There are two arms of this there is one that we're talking about but there's a building arm of this that we have not talked about that will be come a conversation a very important one I believe. Smell. Do our farmers. Do we have a problem with our farmers and smell in the state. Have we learned how to handle. That animals excrement properly some farms have. We can bio react everything that's where we're going. I'm sorry but. From a young age I was carrying studs on home projects and my father. He could build a two story colonial in two weeks with plywood and drywall and this is. Causing immense damage to us. Disease rates do not lie since 1970. So I don't want to get too far off track here but as we suggest to the state what we think is the next best thing I can tell you as a citizen here. I rented a room to a soil scientist and she is a beautiful being and she changed me forever. I'm going to show what we need to do and we partner with the earth and partner with the ground around us. We'll find our answers so I hope that this body can. Send this message and that our governing body will begin to offer us not just the law of composting. To protect us that says anybody can do this just like growing cannabis in your backyard anyone can do this. But give us guidelines on how composting can and will replace and has already in my house. I have completely functioning water and lake water injection systems in my house. But I primarily use the earth right where I am and we all can and it's not hard and we don't need to be afraid. So thank you for listening. Thank you. So if there's nothing else on that agenda item. We have two executive sessions. I move that city council authorize city manager to write a letter with this request to the legislature and authorize account of president sign this letter on behalf of the council. Do I hear a second. Thank you. Any further discussion. Hearing none all those in favor same person I I I great eyes have it. Thank you for the reminder. You're not leaving. We have two executive sessions so before we do those motions. We can do consent. We have a motion to accept consent agenda. Perfect. Without further discussion, all those in favor to accept the consent as in to say aye. Aye. Aye. A unanimous reading file? Council comments? Anybody? No? Regina? Uh, so just one comment. Um, our strategic planning project is up and running. Um, I am going to put the link to the website in the chat for folks. Um, so there is a survey right now. Um, that's out. It would be awesome for absolutely everybody. Um, people who work here, people who live here. Um. To fill this out. Um, and. We will also that will kind of roll into a 1st event, which is called the think tank. That will be November 2nd and November 4th, the Thursday night and the Saturday morning. Um, and. This really is kind of focused on the high level vision and then we're going to eventually move into very much more specific action items. Um, through a variety of other different processes throughout the next. Next couple of months. Uh, the concept is the idea is that we will have final product in February. Um, so very excited that this is finally up and running. I think it's going to be super, super helpful for. All of us to get some direction on what we want to focus on. Um, and can help with budgeting can help with work plans for departments can help with work plans for committees. And so. Um, really looking forward to getting input from everybody in the community and please help spread the work. Can I double down on that? And again, everybody fill out the survey. The think tank you have to enroll. So please go to the website. And enroll and participate. This is the beginning of our process. We need as much participation as possible. Great. Um. So there are 2 motions. One of them I have up in front of me the other one I have on paper. Um, so since I'm seeing this 1 in front of me, I'll make I'll make it somebody else in 2nd. I move the city council make a specific finding that premature disclosure. Of the contractual matters would place the city as substantial disadvantage. And I move the city council entering executive session discuss a contract. We're soon into 1 VSA section 313 a 1 a to include the city council city manager. Water quality superintendent. And Apollo Roger, but. But already, excuse me. Right. That for the discussion, all those in favor to both motions say aye. Aye. Namely passed. And. What are you that 1. Yeah, no, you were right. I'm sorry. The way I'm going, I'm just, you know, I should ask first. I move that the city council make the specific finding that general public knowledge of pending or probable civil litigation or prosecution to which the public body is, or maybe a party. Would place the city at a substantial disadvantage. I move that the city council enter into executive session discuss pending or probable civil litigation or prosecution to which the public body is, or maybe a party pursuant to 1 VSA 313 a 1 e. To include the city council city manager and city attorney Claudine so far and pristine chance. Second. Great. Without further discussion. All those in favor of those 2 motions, please say aye. That's unanimously. We don't have any action on these tonight so we will not be coming back. We'll be adjourning from the executive session. And going into the other room. I suppose right. Okay. So you are all set channel 17 and.