 So I'll be showing my screen once you tell me we're on. Yeah. So yes, welcome everybody for our second preliminary talk of the conference. And it is given, it will be given by Professor Heba El Degredi from American University in Cairo, where she is currently the head of School of Humanities, Chair of the School of Humanities and Social Sciences. She has done her PhD from University of Birmingham and she works in various projects, including the project, sorry, the Tempest project, which I don't know much about, but I'm sure you will hear from her about that. So Heba, can you please share your screen? OK, sure. No, OK, I think it's just requesting that I give access to Zoom to share my. Anil, are you around? Yeah, OK. OK, is that all? Yes. OK, perfect. Your screen. OK, perfect. So hello, everyone, and thank you so much for this kind of invitation to the conference. It does seem to be a kind of holding so many interesting sessions related to STEAM or STEM in general, and I'll speak more about these variations that we have. So the topic that I'm offering and talking about today is about STEAM Power 2. And of course, it might look a bit weird, but I'll say more about that. And social responsibility in higher education. This is where I'm actually from. I'm from Egypt, which is very well known by its history, by its culture, 7,000 years of history from this place. Of course, I think one of the main things that pops up in someone's mind when you mention Egypt is the pyramids. So I thought to start with the location of where I'm from. Sometimes we've been misunderstood of having the desert so much, and sometimes we get questions like, do you have cars? Do you live in the pyramids? So just a little bit of a clarification. This is our history, but of course, modern age did arrive to Egypt, so no worries about that. To show a little bit more about our location, this is actually a map. It's coming from the American University in Cairo, where I'm located from. And it's very interesting to see the number of graduates and alumni from different countries who came to study the various programs at the university. And I was so surprised to see that we have 79 graduates actually from India who joined the American University in Cairo on different programs. In terms of distance, of course, the map doesn't really show much in terms of the distance between the two countries, but having had the luxury to actually visit India, it would take like five hours or so in terms of flight. A little bit more about going back to the American University in Cairo, a little bit of terms of the fact finding. We are actually one of the very old universities in Egypt and in the region. And actually, if you go back to its launch and its history, it's actually over 100 years old. We actually, oops, I'll just go back to that. It was launched in 1919 and a few years back, we celebrated the centennial of the university. It has 40 undergraduate programs at the undergraduate level, 24 graduate diplomas, master programs, PhD programs. In addition to all of that, it actually also offers non-degree programs. It had various international and national accreditations as well, just to give a little brief of the university. In terms of my research interest, as it was mentioned in my bio, and you can find that a little bit more on the website of the conference itself, my background is actually science education. And I started off with a PhD program in science education with the University of Birmingham, but then gradually as I think research in general is trying to push the boundaries between various disciplines, interest into crossing these boundaries to other disciplines such as STEM, STEAM education and others as well. I've actually started to even gain my own personal research interests. So although the background is science education, it does go beyond that to some of these very new buzzwords in the field that we'll talk more about. In addition to that, education sustainable development is another kind of, big kind of area and a big discipline that I'm interested in. And it goes along with what's happening internationally in terms of the sustainable development goals, the 2030 if you're also aware of that. Teacher education, in-service and pre-service are fields of also my interest. So I'll be sharing at the end of the presentation and my email address and further communication so we can get along if that's the situation. Okay, but just a minute. We are seeing some blank rectangles on our screen. So maybe what we do is just stop sharing for a minute. Okay, so close or minimize all of the Zoom windows. Okay, and also the sound from your side is very weak. Just minimize all of the Zoom windows that will probably solve the problem. Let me try again then. So let me see, sharing again, right. Okay, it should be on now. Is it any better? Not sure. See, have you closed all the chat box and all other boxes from Zoom? Okay, let me see. I'm trying to do that again. Or at least minimize them. Yep, let me see that. Any better? On top there is still one more window. One more window. I mean, that's the, okay. And at bottom there is some window. There we go. Is that it? Bottom window is gone now. Any better? Yes. Yeah, this is better. Are we good to go? Yes, thanks. Okay, just go one more, one slide back. So, okay, there we go. So these are my areas of interest. I'm sorry about that disturbance. And then here we go. These are the key arguments that I'll be actually talking about today in the presentation. So we'll be looking at kind of like dissecting the title of the talk into several areas. One of them is related to the role of universities, higher education institutions in the 21st century and beyond. Another key argument will be related to education sustainable development or the ESD, which is a major component related to sustainable development goals that is a very big topic locally, regionally and internationally. And of course, our favorite topic from the conference even theme and interest is STEM and STEAM education. What is it about? How is it being presented in higher education institutions? Are we doing the right job or not? And then finally how we can unfold and actually bring in social responsibility to our discussion as a whole. And in doing so, and in providing for these so many different areas, universities, education sustainable development, STEM and STEAM education and social responsibility comes actually this term which is put in the title which is STEAM power two. And this will be the core focus of the presentation today with the unfolding aspects as it's shown in the diagram. So what is the role of university in the 21st century and beyond? We can actually think of so many different areas where higher education institutions can start to lead nations as a whole. Some might think of universities as the knowledge share. Some might think about its role and responsibility in this current phase and era related to technology. And some might think about it in terms of the workforce and how it prepares the generations to find jobs with certain certificates and credentials. And since there's so many talks and areas of views about what is the role of universities or higher education institutions as a whole, I think it's very good that we think about some examples of what is taking place at universities internationally. There is of course something which is very well known in terms of the rankings of universities which is the QS rankings. I just pulled a couple of logos from universities taking different places internationally from the rankings. And we can just think about, once you put a name of university or title university you might associate a specific area or specific discipline or a specific focus. So these are just representations from different international universities and we can associate and think about their roles. But I think as we are taking this conversation further and the topic is related to the role of higher education institutions, i.e. universities, I think it's also good that we think about this exercise and share together our thoughts of what you think would be the role of universities that need to be played in today's society. So if you have your mobile phone nearby or if you have actually access to a website browser, either you can scan using your mobile phone camera, the QR code, or you can actually log in into the minty.com with this number, the 6422-3659. And please share your views of what you think the university role should be in terms of today's society. So I'll just give you two minutes if you can do that. And once the time is up, I'll just go and have a look at your comments and your responses on the minty.com. So I'll move from this actual window to another one. And please let me know if things don't go the way that I wanted to go. Well, let me just see if I hear. Okay, so this is actually the minty.com. So if you go in and we're able to actually use the code, it will give you some reference or access to this site where you can put your responses to what you think the role of universities have in terms of crucial roles in society these days. I can go back again if you want to, to the QR code, if that's going to be easier. I can see there's a large number of participants here. So this is going back again to the QR code if that will be of any help. And then forward again to the minty meter. So if you have any problems, can just let us know on the chat so we can just make sure that this activity is going as planned. There we go. All right, so that means people are in. So employment opportunities. It has a role to be a facilitator, to educate, to mentor, and I'll just talk for a few minutes until the responses are coming in. Take a few more seconds if you just want to pop in your response. I can tell even some of the keywords are coming from the plenary today or even from the session that I was in a few minutes ago. Okay, well, it seems educate. We can, you can just keep on going and I'll just kind of pick a few of those just to highlight and kind of emphasize what is written. So educate seems to be the most prominent response currently that is available now from the word count and the cloud. But there's also aspects related to social responsibility, critical engagement, empowerment, safe space, employment opportunities that's the usual role we would expect for universities. But if you think about the new roles, so there are some roles of the universities, of course, would stay as is, but there might be new roles that are coming up and being brought to the forefront of universities as we speak, given the change and the technology that we're facing, the advancement in knowledge crisis that we are even going through locally and internationally where universities need to shift from their current traditional roles to others that might not have been the situation 10, 20, 30 years from where we are now. Networking is really an important part as well because once you have a university in place, I know some cities are actually built around universities. Work opportunities, opportunities even for collaboration, businesses are all there because of a university is in a specific locality. It open up gates, of course, gates for collaboration, gates for internships, gates for possibility of jobs, but also gates for exploration, gates for problem solving, places where we can navigate our thinking, places where we can bring about actually leaders in a specific field to resolve problems and issues in certain places as well. So thank you so much for all of those who actually made it to the Minty and responded. So let's have a look at what is actually in the literature in terms of the roles of universities in general. So I hope I'll go back to the slide and take it from there. So from the literature, there seems to be, of course, some correspondence and some alliance with what was just mentioned from the responses, but the roles of universities in society can actually help develop a culture of academic enterprise and knowledge entrepreneurship. It can actually provide for neutral conveners, assemblers of talent. There's a lot to do with innovation if we think out of the box of the traditional role of universities of just feeding in information and knowledge to those graduates or undergraduate students who come in, but it does provide for a safe place to innovate and to create. Universities might need to think of ways that even go beyond the expectations of societal transformation. At today's pinery there, the topic was related to a social actually, emotional social movement related to science education, but we need to think who would actually take the lead on that that might be the universities at that point. And universities must become effective partners for global development. So all the different universities in the various regions might need to come together to think about how we can push the boundaries and the problems that we are facing internationally so they can become solvers of these issues and problems. And the following point looks actually at solving social problems and again providing for innovation. A point related to the networks and a point related to partnerships between different institutions, different entities, different stakeholders in a specific nation is also of extreme importance for the university to flourish and even make sure that its role is on the right track. So given the role or the expectation of what universities should be doing, it's important to link this with an important topic as I mentioned earlier of the key argument related to education sustainable development. So just a quick notion of what it is. So if we were to think of defining what is education sustainable development, these are very well known definitions from the literature but it all relates to how the current generations are looking into the resources that are available in a specific locality to make sure that these resources will still continue for the future generations depending on their needs and depending on the changes that are taking place, currently and in the future as well. So when you think about education sustainable development, we think about it in terms of how we can actually provide for the knowledge and skills that are needed for our generations, the current ones to ensure that their resources and the facilities that are available are also maintained for the next generations and the future ones as well. So it does rely a lot in terms of awareness and actions and possibilities for the future. Now other important point related to the definition of education sustainable development, it is not just about aspects related to the environment but it goes beyond that to social aspects, cultural aspects and of course the environment too but also the economical aspects as well in any given society. So these are all kind of part and parcel of the definition of education sustainable development. So you think about what are the international movements that took place in relation to education sustainable development and what are universities doing in terms of that bare role as well. So we can link the concepts together as we move from one item to the other. You might have heard of the millennium development goals that took place like 10 or 20 years ago but then the movement in relation to education which many of us of course in this talk are attending in relation to their interests, knowing what education can do to actually fulfill the requirements of a sustainable development. In 2005 to 2014 it was mentioned that this is the decade for education sustainable development. A lot of international projects at that point started to evolve around funding different development countries and developed countries to maintain their actions and their practices in terms of probably even programs that are offered at the higher education institutional level so that their students and participants in these programs are aware of their actions, what to do and what not to do to maintain the resources that are currently available. A very big kind of push for the countries and globally to know more about education sustainable development was mandated by the SDGs 2030 or what is known by the Sustainable Development Goals. There's 17 of them. And as you can see here, there are different emphasis in each of these goals in relation to what exactly is needed on the international level. So no poverty, zero hunger, good health, quality education. This is definitely an area where we need to emphasize more and here we're looking at not just higher education institutions or at the university level in relation to what they should be doing or could be doing in relation to ESD but also even at the school level. Gender equality, clean water and sanitation and so many other aspects that are very much relevant to what our talks globally and locally in relation to resolving big issues that we are facing currently. One of them that is very well known is climate change. There's a lot of push for universities to think about reducing any carbon impact that we have whether at the institutional level or even individually. So this talk will take place in the next few slides as well. So Egypt has actually also embarked on a change and the change is not only a change in relation to its national goal but also at every single level as well with the 2030 Egyptian vision. There's so many different countries that even took the responsibility of looking at the sustainable development goals. The SDGs 2030 and started to restructure its strategic plan, its priorities, its national interests to start to think about what universities should do, what institutions should do to actually get these goals achieved by 2030. A big contribution related to sustainable development goals but also pillars of education is what the Laws report in 1996 provided in terms of having any educational program look into concepts that we need to know. So learning to know, learning to do related to skills that we are embarking on. A lot of emphasis comes also from literature if we think about many of the theories of learning that we know of, Dewey for example where there's a lot of emphasis of what we should be doing and the experiential learning as well. Learning to live together that's a very societal need and when we look in terms of universities, we look in terms of programs, we look in terms of progress, we look in terms of even transformation in general, learning to live together needs to be part and parcel of this equation too. And so these are the main four pillars related to education as well but also specifically to education sustainable development. So to link these together, there's a very short video that I'm going to share with you which are bringing various voices from different entities and individuals where there's really a big push to issues related to sustainable development goals but also the net zero movement that is taking place as well here. So hopefully get the movie on and share here. What kind of world do I want to live in? I think about this question a lot. For our generation and for specifically my group of people which is refugees, the circumstances might dismantle any vision of the future that we have. You're trying to rebuild, you're trying to make a future for yourself and then the climate-related disaster comes and you start again. It's not about how it's affecting you, it's about how it's affecting your entire life. The first step to understand is that we're all a part of it. None of us are going to be left out by the crisis. We're at a stage where if we don't act now, really there won't be very much left. There are generations that will never see certain things that we grew up seeing in real life. We have to start treating this like the emergency it is. To achieve the 17 sustainable development goals, we have to go from an intention to a serious commitment. Business leaders really need to rethink how they conduct their business and invest in creating systems that are climate-friendly. The action I would like to see is accountability. Structures being put in place where countries aren't just asked to do something, but they're kept accountable to the decisions that they make. There has to be that strong collaboration between government, between corporations, between youth activists to drag change forward. The world I would want to live in, it's a world where imagining the future is not a privilege. I want to live in a world where people do not give up on hope. Hope that a positive change is possible. The fact that you're listening today means that you are willing to make a change. This is actually the key message that is coming from this video, but also from the presentation as well. How we can think to be more responsible in relation to the actions that we do on a daily basis, as individuals, but also as institutions and as higher education institutions in particular when we think about ESD and now, the new or the other concept that we're going to talk about, which is the social responsibility aspect. So social responsibility from the kind of few kind of points that were mentioned in the previous video showcases so many people who are getting disturbed about practices that are currently being made on different various levels and there needs to be action. So the action would only happen if we are able to infuse a sense of responsibility amongst various individuals, institutions, governments, countries, and globally as well. So only with that we can start to see a sense of being proactive and being even agents of change in our nations and elsewhere. So when you think about social responsibility, this is a definition that is found in the literature that I think if you can just spend a couple of minutes just looking at that. And it really is important when we think about social responsibility not only in terms of the usual corporate social responsibility because that's very much kind of the trend of businessmen when they try to share some of their assets or some of their even revenues to the society around them, which is definitely a good thing. But what I'm really trying to emphasize more is what we call the university social responsibility and that is how it's put together in this kind of frame of the topic of today and the talk of today. What are universities, what and how should they be held accountable in terms of their social responsibility. So here in this diagram you can see that when universities are aware of their impact, when they're aware of their actions, they take that into consideration even at the very simplest aspects. So even universities going paperless or universities trying to find different ways to irrigate the gardens on their campuses or even provide for opportunities for programs to emphasize sustainable development and social responsibility. This is all part and parcel of what a university might need to think about and move towards this direction of higher education being a responsible entity rather than being just consumers of knowledge from other entities as well. So this is just a quick example of what we've been doing at the American University in Cairo and it's with very much of pride. It's actually ranked the first in Egypt and in Africa in terms of its green metric and it produces various reports to showcases actually what it does and what it's providing in terms of its action on a daily basis. So it provides annually the carbon footprint report and it showcases what is its consuming in terms of its water, its energy, how it's trying to provide and encourage even individuals to take responsibility of very simple actions such as carpooling for example and to lower the carbon emissions that we actually do on a daily basis without being aware of. That's one of the aspects. It aligns for sustainability report. Again it's linked with the SDGs the 2030 and it showcases how much it is aware of its role in the country and in its locality to align with all of the aspects and the interests as well. In addition to these two there's also the green guide report and it showcases what it does in terms of its waste management a very important aspect what it does in terms of its outreach and its awareness too at the academic level and its research and the academic level is what I'll be talking about in the next few slides. But it has to go with the individual social responsibility so even if the university is very much aware and is providing what it should be it cannot happen unless we are trying to embed and infuse a sense of social responsibility at the individual level. You might be aware of Greta Thomburg a Swedish 19 year old currently who actually took the lead in terms of providing youth to have a voice and a choice to lead a campaign related to the critical issue of climate change and she actually started a move which is called Friday for Future where school and university students would actually sometimes come up and have a march or they have a strike in relation to bring their voices up and clear to the administrators and to countries to ensure that the carbon footprint is taken care of and the climate change is a big issue that governments need to act upon. This is a very interesting part related to the global warming in general and the climate change I've actually got this from the website related to Ed Hawkins who actually brought up the stripes and it showcases how much there's been a change in the temperature from the 1990s and onwards and this actual slide is coming from India so it showcases the rise of temperature that we're all aware of and we all kind of feel it there's disruption in terms of the environment disruptions of our daily lives as well related to climate change so what should we do at the individual level and at the university level so STEAM comes in in a very prominent way and STEAM just for a quick awareness this is a conference related to STEM education so the S is for the science, technology, engineering and math but the STEAM comes in with a different perspective it comes in with the A and the A is a representative of the arts there's a lot when I attend conferences that I'm seeing different interpretations and different localizations of what STEM STEAM or STEAM with double M or double S or double M might mean and it all goes back to and boils down to the point of localizing what is needed so we might be borrowing this concept from different countries but to bring it to the forefront and related to the local needs is extremely of importance and this is why some nations or some countries have actually maintained specific terminologies related to this combination the interdisciplinarity of the STEM or the STEAM made sure that it's representative of what their country needs and what the forefront of the strategic plan to bring the country up is also related to in an effort that I've done and also making sure that STEAM as a terminology and as a concept of interdisciplinarity that can bring in all the different concepts and skills from the disciplines is well known not just for those who are English speakers but those who are also Arabic speakers there was a MOOC which is a massive open online course that was actually hosted on one of the platforms that provides for this opportunity for Arabic speakers to know more about the practices related to STEM and STEAM education with an emphasis on teachers, teacher education and even parents as well as they can bring it and connect it to life especially as we are facing we're not facing specific issues related to just science on its own but it's very much interdisciplinarity so this is the STEAM power 2 and this is actually bringing in the different combinations of a trans disciplinary concept and this is something that I've coined and it showcases STEM with all of its disciplines the ESD with its emphasis on the social environmental and cultural aspects and the arts it has an emphasis on the 21st century skills global citizenship but also a lot to do with innovative technologies and I was very fortunate through this actually concept to provide it to students at the American University in Cairo as a higher education institution to bring about this new concept and interdisciplinarity and even trans disciplinarity approach as well so what I did is that I provided a course related to STEAM power 2 and students were at that point thinking of themselves as agents of change and they would bring about concepts that are related to problems that they are facing on a daily basis in the Egyptian locality and it would replicate more of a 3D concept so it will bring about aspects of sustainable development it will bring about their voices and choices one of the theoretical aspect that is provided in this particular area or discussion and of course the social responsibility where this economic, ethical and environmental this is the kind of an outline of the course in a brief kind of way because I know I'm running out of time right now so these are different modules looking at educational sustainable development but bringing the STEM and STEAM education as a trans disciplinary approach in general and then students were required to actually work in groups and to come up with a local problem that they are facing in their real locality and then try to think how they can bring about concepts and skills from the disciplines of STEAM education and related to the areas of focus of educational sustainable development as well so are they directing their problem to an environmental issue, a social issue or an economical issue or more than one actually because that usually was the case so this is kind of a very brief slide of some of the concepts and topics of their projects students were working on and in the next few slides I know we're running out of time this is a few of their projects vocational education as a right for all the students to know and actually have access to good quality education, traffic destructive growth related to the large number of population in general and here in each one of them the skills, the dimensions and the values that were provided in each of their projects as a whole so I'll run through this extremely quickly and as a conclusion of this and a real kind of talk to take it forward, not just talk it's important that higher education institutions would think about their roles as not just providers of knowledge but enablers of innovation and a place where students can actually have a voice to showcase their areas of interest and innovation and social responsibility as they come along and see themselves as agents of change in general for social justice and for social change and transformation in education as well and this is just my context of if anyone wants to contact me just again a quick QR scan of this code we'll get connected directly to my linked in account and with that I'd like to thank you for this opportunity to share what we've been doing at the American University in Cairo but also to provide a place where we can see the higher education institutions as a change agent for better learning but also for social responsibility and involvement thank you so much Thanks Hibba we have some questions in chat but before that I wanted to understand more I think the last part of the talk you went through it quickly so when you said you offered this course so what was the background of the students who participated in the course Sure the background they're offered into actual cohorts it was offered to a number of students who are the graduate level they're MA students they're in the program of education and it was also offered as an elective course for undergraduate students in different majors so the American University in Cairo is actually a liberal arts institution where students go in probably not deciding on their major as yet but they take a couple of courses and then eventually they start to declare their major so the projects I have a huge amount of projects and numbers of projects in different areas as a result of this course has been offered a couple of years now and it has been offered to a number of prospective number of years to the MA students and to the undergraduate students as well Thanks so there is one question by Prejwal Prejwal would you like to unmute and ask the question directly Yes please go ahead That's okay you can just read it out Yeah okay so she's asking and move away from funding from military sources or sources that prioritize profits over people That's a very big question and it's very difficult to answer directly but what I have to say is that universities in general in Egypt they are very much aligned with the Supreme Council of Universities which oversees its programs provides for its accreditation and provides for its funding to the American University in Cairo the situation is a little bit different because it's not a national university it's a not-for-profit university and therefore it actually has an endowment which provides for its funding by the Board of Trustees and according to its facilities that is needed and providing for any programs and new programs this is more of a governing kind of place where it has much more freedom than national universities depending on the system that you're looking into and depends also in terms of the country as well so some countries have this very decentralized system where universities can take the lead of what they want to do but others are very kind of centralized particularly in Egypt in the national system where it has to follow of course the Supreme Council of Universities where the budget is mandated in a specific way and the expenditure is also mandated in a specific way as well Question from Ayush Did some students and our teachers struggle with aspects of the curriculum or pedagogy if yes any stories or insights Struggle and I'm not sure what is meant by exact struggle but what I would say is that the beginning of the course students had to get a lot in terms of content to know what is education sustainable development first but when they started to embark on the projects and know what is happening at the international level they got the hang of it and then they felt so much excited and even towards like midway through the course they started to reflect on their own practices at the individual level so many mentioned that they started to be more aware of closing the tabs if they're not using it, switching off the lights very simple everyday actions we're not aware of that cutting off plastic bags because in Egypt for example there's no mandate to cut off the plastic bags but it's done at some kind of organizations or NGOs where they're trying as much as possible to bring awareness to the misuse of plastic bags and reduce it as much as possible in terms of curricular design since they're working in groups with the facilitation and support and scaffold that I provide them they are able then to see esteem power to come together with the combination of content and specific skills from science and engineering and technology and so on but also to highlight how can this actually be presented to the areas that they're looking into so for example the WeGarden project looks into how they can develop compost for example so they're bringing concept from science and then they bring in activities where they can do as a hands-on and then they think about really bringing in even videos and YouTube videos and some texts where they can be presented on a website or a blog so the end and I actually made sure that I close my presentation to leave the 15 minutes for questions but I think it'll be more richer than because it'll bring about the questions that everyone was looking into as I was presenting so all of the project students were handing over at the end of the semester were actually blogs or websites and as they went along and started to design the website they would share on frequent basis how they developed and brought in the aspects and they would get feedback even from other individuals from the class as well so that they can see it more as a collaborative rather than a competitive group work and group assignment. Thanks. Next question by Ravi Subramaniam In India in terms of the universities are in general low in the higher educational hierarchy with professional education institutions like technology medicine and law having a much higher status these are generally outside the universities and are institutions by themselves Do you find something similar in Egypt? Generally speaking education as a discipline is always a low status discipline if you compare it to medicine and engineering I think this is an international trend so if I were to say and introduce myself I'm a professor of education that would be one thing but if I'm saying I'm a professor of medicine it will be another thing so there's always this high status of specific disciplines rather than education as a discipline if we're comparing between higher education institutions we do have enrollment would be for students joining higher education institutions as universities institutions something like a two-year, a three-year institution would be less socially accepted and respected so it does cause of a social kind of of let's say stigma more or less if I'm a graduate of a university I'll be looked in one way and will provide opportunities for career and jobs in comparison to if I'm a graduate of a two-year institution after high school it will be very much different and it will provide very much limited opportunities in terms of careers and job opportunities as well so I think what I will just ask that question in different way because I think what Ravi means here is in India we have the system that the engineering institutes and medical colleges are separate from universities no we don't have that no no no it's part of the university exactly maybe I misread the question yes it's part of universities yes okay I had one question about that course which you offered again so you have been offering this course for 2-3 years you said so are there any alumnus who come back and tell about the real world insights and how that course has been helping them after the graduation that's a very interesting question what I've been always asking my students as they come to the part where they're doing their projects is I tell them don't think about this as an assignment think about it as a contribution to your surroundings and your areas of influence as well so some of them are teachers or they have some connections with schools some of them have their own professional linked in accounts and they've actually posted them because it was all free and we think about as I'm mentioning social responsibility so part of the social responsibility is that we don't close the creation of these projects just for the course but we provide them and facilitate let's say the marketing of these projects elsewhere but they haven't been actually specific examples where a project or one of these websites has actually been brought to one of the schools and we have results coming back this is I always mention that if you do it if you share it with someone and you apply it please make sure that you bring in results back but because of this course is actually offered at the end of the as a kind of senior level many of the students once they graduate they leave the university and it's very difficult to maintain the connection once they're out so there's another question by Mashoot so what is the status of science education research in Egypt? Are there many universities which offer a program science research as a program for PhD or yep, science education is of course one of the main disciplines the faculties of education and the national universities they offer master degrees programs and they offer the PhD programs it's not the case at my university and the American University in Cairo because we don't have a specific discipline disciplinary program, our programs are related to educational leadership and it's related to international comparative education so it's not per discipline it's more of a comprehensive MA program and we do not currently have a PhD program okay are there any other questions? if not I think we can all unmute and thank our speaker by clapping thank you so much thank you Heba thank you so much