 So is Jack with us? Not yet. Not yet. He's up for minutes. So if he's not, then Janet, you're on deck. So maybe. Okay. Yeah. So unless Jack shows up in the next 30 seconds or so, maybe if you, if you're prepared to take minutes today and then we'll have Jack do it next time. Okay. I'm going to have trouble taking minutes during the work plan, but I could go back or something. So, yeah. Okay. Other than that, Stephanie, are we ready to get going? I think. Yep. We're, we are recording now and we have a quorum. So you're all set. Great. Okay. Well, welcome everybody and thanks for joining us. For the. August 31st, 2022. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Meeting of the. Solar bylaw working group for the town of Amherst. And. Appreciate everybody being here. And, and for the public that's. Listening in as well. And we'll have opportunity for public comment at the end. So we have the agenda that's been sent around. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We're missing Jack. Are we missing anybody else from the committee? No, you have everybody else. Great. Okay. Thanks. All right. Great. So. I guess the first order of business is to review. And then a vote on the minutes from our last meeting on eight 11. These were in your packet with a number of other. Comments. I don't know if you can open up the floor for any. Comments or proposed. Changes to the minutes as they've been. Presumably respectfully submitted by Martha. I can. Do you want to get it helpful to, I'm not sure if people have. Reviewed the minutes prior or whether it's helpful to put them on the screen and scroll through them. If, if, if people. Have had a chance to review them and have no comments. That's great. But if people would like to have the opportunity to review them, just scroll through them on the screen, then Stephanie can do that. So anybody. Would find that helpful. I'm seeing, seeing not. So. I read the minutes already, but. Yeah. Have other people, do they need to read them right now? I've reviewed them. So. Chris. I just wanted to say that I thought they were done really well. Yeah. Yeah. So. Okay. Okay. And a minute taker previously, Martha did a great job. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Should we amend them? Technically. Stephanie or Chris to say that they were taken by Martha. I can add that. I think it's, it's. Okay. Okay. So I, I. I don't know if we need to vote on that. And people just go with that one. Okay. Assuming there's no. Additional. Or comments or suggestions for edits on the minutes. Can I hear a motion to accept the minutes as they've been. Provided and amended only by adding Martha's name as the respectfully submitter. Respectful submit. Respect. Submitter with respect. I'll second. Okay. And I'll have to do this by voice vote. Yeah. So. Brooks. Yes. Breger. Yes. McGowan. Yes. Tanner. Yes. Corcoran. Yes. Haglia Rulo. She's on me. Can I. Can I vote. If. I wasn't in the meeting. If you review them or you watch the meeting. Yes, I reviewed them. Yes, yes. Okay. Can I, I forgot that I'm taking minutes. Who did the motion to approve the minutes. Okay. Thank you. And Janet, I'm, I've got you covered too. I'm doing back up here. Okay. Okay. So the minutes are approved. Great. Okay. So going on to the next agenda item is staff updates. Okay. So I'm going to go to the next agenda item. I'm going to go to the next agenda item. I'm going to go to staff updates from, from Stephanie, if that works and then, and then from. Chris. Sure. So a really quick. Update on the solar assessment that we received. One. Response one proposal. And. Dwayne and I are going to review that tomorrow. And then I'm going to go to the next agenda item. And then I'm going to go to the next agenda item. And then I'm going to meet the. Requirements in the proposal. For an adequate submission. If it does not. Then there is the potential to. Open it up again. And we will do outreach to, or I especially will do outreach to other. Consultants who did not submit a proposal to find out why they did not submit those that we think. That would be the one doing the state. Wide assessment. And then revise the proposal and resubmit again to. Or post it again for submissions. So. That would. That would certainly affect a timeline, but if we think that it's lacking. In its response, I don't think we want to just go with. Just one only because it's the one that was submitted. We really want to make sure that we're going to get an adequate assessment. So. I don't think even though the. Even though the. Town council had submitted a deadline. With which to receive the. Solar bylaw. It is possible that it could be extended. Given this revision to the timeline. So. I don't think we want to go with that. Just. Just a heads up about that. And I would say that's my only. Update for today. So I will hand it over to Chris. Well, why don't we, there are a couple of questions. I think that related to that update. I would presume. So I think Martha was first and then. Jack. Yeah. Is, is this the time you want to, I saw that. I don't know if it has to do with the agenda, but if you want to just take care of it now, I had one comment to make. Do you want me to go ahead or. Or wait. I don't know if it has to do with the content of the assessment. Maybe we'll wait on that. If it has to do with the procedure of procuring the, the. A contractor, then maybe it's appropriate now. Yeah. Okay. I'll wait. Okay, great. Oh, and. I'll just confirm. Jack. Welcome. You were the, just before you go, you were the designated minute. But I think then it got that started. So we'll have you do the next, next meeting. Okay. That's why it was my apologies. I just. Thank goodness. I'm not, you know. A half hour late anyway. I'm sorry. I just fell off my calendar. So I appreciate who. So who's taking notes today? Janet. I owe you a big time, big time. Okay. Did you have a, did you have any. The comment for Stephanie or just. Introducing your, your presence. Great. Thanks. All right. Good. Chris. Any updates? Yeah. We're fine tuning the. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. RFP for the person who's going to help us to write the solar bylaw. Who's going to help us deal with technical issues. So we should be putting that out. At this month. But we haven't gotten it completed yet. So great. Okay. And I think. That also relates to our work plan. And maybe even our next. Yeah. I think that's a good point. I think it does with regard to our agenda items for next time. Just with regard to. You know, when, when. The working group can sort of expect to have sort of a. At least a skeleton of what, what a bylaw might look like. So we can, we can defer that conversation until a bit later, but that's, that's good to hear. May I say one more thing? Yeah, yeah, please. Yeah. I remember a couple of meetings ago. Janet said that she wanted to put together a framework or skeleton or outline. Of the solar bylaw. So I wondered if she is. Going to do that or if we should just. Go ahead and do that. So I've been looking at a bunch of different bylaws. Including the ones that we looked at. And I'm trying to get, maybe Jack can help me PV, the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission to give me like an open version of the bylaw that they have. Because when I copy, try to copy it off their website. So I thought that would be a good framework to start with, like the beginning of our skeleton. And so I had a remarkable amount of back and forth, but I feel like we're close to getting that. And I've also been taking notes on different provisions that could be added. So. I would be happy to send that out, but I need to, I need a few weeks on that at least, but I'm, I'm, so I've kind of been thinking about it. I've been reading about it. I'm collecting other things. But I would love to like put, I'm happy to put the skeleton together using that as a base. I thought that was a super comprehensive one. So. So can I, can I ask the question? And perhaps I missed it at the last meeting, but what bylaw are we considering basing our, my laws off of. Um, you know, we haven't decided that I just. Oh, so I thought that the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission, it has the solar guide. I'm not sure I have the right word for that. And it has, it's 170 pages long, but at the end of it, it has sort of a draft bylaw that also has questions in it. And so I thought that would be a great framework to start with. Um, and then I've been, I've been collecting, I mean, we have the three bylaws that we looked at. I have shoots, Barry, they have, I have two versions of shoots, Barry. I have some, some information left over from the planning board looking at this. And, um, um, I think I have a copy of Athol too. So my idea was to use the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission bylaw as a framework and then, um, kind of work from there. And then also there'll be questions in there, which is what I'd like. It's like, what do we think, you know, in terms of X, Y, and Z? And then I also know, you know, Chris has talked about an overlay district. And so I was going to put a section in there, leaving language open for that. Obviously not knowing where that would be, but, um, you know, and then punching that in and starting to think about how that works. So I'm happy to do the, the beginning legwork of it, but I really do need the PV PC to give me the open kind of word version of what they have. I could copy it. It's just like a, it's going to come out as a horrendous mess. And that, so that's. So. Yeah. Okay. So I have another follow up question. So that by law. Is that based primarily off of the. Do we are by law or. I must be in the drive. I need to take a look at it. I'm, I'm pretty just for the record, pretty opposed to using the Athol. I think that's a good starting framework. So perhaps the pioneer value planning commission is more like the state's by law guidance. But I'd like to, I'd like to look at that before Jen. I just don't want to spend a ton of time and then have me come back and say, Oh, I don't agree. Um, so I have it. I missed Laura. I missed the beginning. What you said. What by law did you reference in the beginning? Was that the state? Yeah. The state's by law. Yep. The state's by law. It's kind of general and it's kind of old. And I think the pioneer valley planning commission one is using that as a basis, but it goes in sort of deeper. I know the Athol one is super focused on view sheds. To an extraordinary extent. And it was sort of informative to me and how you could, you know, get different views and stuff like that. But I know Athol was. Very focused on view sheds. And I'm not using that one. Okay. Yeah, I'll take a look at the pioneer, pioneer value one as well. And I'll just. I know. Mike Sloan at DOER. I just want to. Get a sense for perhaps the state has updated it, but maybe the pioneer valley planning commission does have a good base. So I'd like to review too. Sure. Yeah, Jack. Yes. So I'm just wondering. Chris, do you want me to try to grab that word document from. From them or is that something. Something I can take off your plate. So no problem. Jack, I'm actually finally got somebody on the email thing. So I think they're going to send it to me. Oh, okay. If I need help, I'll call you. Sure. I'm in this like never the less. But I think I think I finally found somebody who's going to help me. If I can't get it. By the end of the week. I'll call you and see what you can do. Okay. Yeah. I'm in agreement. I think the pioneer valid planning commission. You know, by law template is a good start for us. I can help with that as well. Okay. And, and not that you need too many hands on deck, but Eric Weiss, I think it's the key author there. So I know him fairly well too. So. I can't imagine it'd be too hard to get, but I would imagine they would want people to use it. So. But if there's any. Issues, just to let us all know and. Okay. All right. Thank you. And I guess what I would, and this is. Let's table this for now, but I wouldn't mind maybe it as we get to the end of this meeting and talk about. Agenda items for next time and maybe even the next couple of times. I think this topic. Janet and appreciate your lead here. Of, of, you know, maybe. Even, even if you're not done next time, sort of an update on the process and sort of what your, what your. How we can be helpful and what you're sort of thinking and what it's sort of starting to look like. And, and. Cause I think. And I don't. I do recall the PVPC guide and. Bylaw and would agree that that seemed to be an appropriate one for us to start with. I don't recall the template at the end that you're referring to. But it sounds like it's a good idea. But you know, I would try to keep it as, as vanilla as possible. With, with then, with then the. Then I'll, I'll sort of the, the. Important data and information and flavors that we want to add. That, and that, that can then be the basis for. Continue discussions throughout the, throughout the fall in the, in the winter. Yeah. I think the PVC PVPC one is good for us because it has sort of like the rural Western mass vibe to it. And the DOER is a little so generic. That, you know, it was, they were trying to do something that fits, you know, suburban and, and things like that. And it was also sort of an early phase. So, yeah. Great. Hi, Martha. Yeah. May I ask Chris of what you had in mind for you, for your technical consultant? I mean, are there particular issues that, that you feel that. You know, we need the knowledge from or. May I answer. Yeah, please. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it mainly revolves around battery storage that we really haven't had that much experience with it here. And this data is starting to require it for any solar installation. And we're starting to get. Interest from. People who might want to put in. Freestanding battery storage. So we need to get a good. Technical consultant about that since we. Are not ourselves that knowledgeable in that area. And just remind me for our working group. And our bylaw that we're drafting. Is that inclusive of standalone battery storage? That's something that you have to decide. Do you want to allow standalone battery storage here? I think that. You know, you're probably going to. How can I say this? It will probably come up. As a topic. Before May. And, you know, But I think it is definitely something you should consider. And you could either. Incorporated into a solar bylaw, a large solar bylaw, or you could have a separate. Section that deals with battery storage. So that's something that's part of the discussion that we have to have. Could we ask Dan. Is there some knowledge you have here that would be helpful about. Batteries. My, my knowledge is mostly on the mining. The environmental impacts of mining the raw materials that go into the batteries. I can definitely contribute. In that regard. But as far as the installation of the batteries themselves, I don't have any knowledge. Okay. When I was thinking about batteries, which, as you know, can be very fraught issue. I mean, Batteries themselves can be fraught. I began to sort of think about. What happens with battery packs on houses. And so, you know, I've been doing some Google searches of like what goes wrong with batteries. And, you know, as you saw the bus one, there was a freestanding battery storage. And so, you know, as you saw the bus one, there was a freestanding battery storage of what do you call it? Tesla that burned for three days. You know, somebody had some battery packs, you know, on site, and they one went up and then this is in Burlington and they were able to keep it cool enough. So there wasn't thermal runaway. And I began to just brood about all the wood houses. And, you know, like, do we want to, you know, and maybe this is for the technical expert is have some regular use, have some regulations on what kind of battery packs. Are you going to stick on a house that, you know, are safe. And I looked up national standards and a lot are being developed. Shootsbury has language about battery storage and talks about national standards. But I kept on wondering like is, you know, can that was hoping somebody in the group or the technical expert would have knowledge like what are the best organizations for the national standards, you know, and things like that. So I would love more information about problems, about what works, what are the concerns, and then also to loop in the fire department to see, you know, so there's just that that looks like a really big issue to me and it could go from a battery pack on a house to freestanding to the solar arrays. Or, you know, you mass with their buses and things like that. So. Yeah, I think I think this is where the technical consultant could help us. I do know I did I was involved in a webinar, I think a year ago with representative Roy, I think from the middle of the state. That was a town that was looking at large standalone battery storage, very large. And there was an expert on that panel from the national lab, Pacific Northwest Labs, I believe it was, that had some really good expertise on on battery storage and safety that we could maybe I could at least find that presentation. The second thing I'd like, I would say is that, you know, we're in the situation where we're, you know, drafting a bylaw that's, you know, going to be a bylaw for the next, you know, five or 10 years or whatever. And so, you know, to my mind, it can't be that specific to that chemistry or that chemistry because that's constantly changing has to be more about performance standards of what what things they can and can't do. And protections I do like the idea of citing national standard or safety standards with regard to batteries because that you could cite and they can be they can be constantly updated as as technologies change and improve. And so I'm struggling a little bit in terms of how, you know, how much research we have to do on every different type of battery chemistry that might be out there because it's going to be, we can predict that. And, but how do we, how do we think potentially think more about performance based guide guidance with regard to how these battery system and I wouldn't even limit it to batteries I mean there's other storage mechanism fly wheels. And here's this new gravity, gravity based storage. And so we might, you know, broaden it, broaden it to think about some of these other storage mechanisms as well. I don't I don't think we'll have pump storage and Amherst but. Dwayne can I make a comment. Yeah, please. Yeah, thanks Laura. So I guess a question and then a comment. I was under the assumption that these bylaws are not going to be discussing, you know, home storage units like the Tesla Powerwall and things like that. We're just talking about, you know, more DG standalone storage in this conversation, right. Okay. I guess. Okay. So two colleagues of mine do the standalone storage division. We're talking like 200 megawatt 400 megawatt standalone storage sites for AES and next era. And they are doing a number. So I think to your point. You know, they had a fire in Arizona for one of these 200 megawatt systems that made national news and they've been doing in conjunction with the fire departments. Like test burns and, and, you know, discreet places to see to test different mechanisms for response. And so I think that the summary there like for example, one thing they found is actually if there is a fire, you're not supposed to open the door at all. You're supposed to just let it be contained because the introducing oxygen causes it to really, you know, become dangerous. So I think whatever we put in the bylaw for standalone storage really needs to account for the evolution of best practices because obviously standalone storage has tremendous benefits. I mean, you're, you're really maximizing the renewables on a grid and deploying, you know, increasing the ability to deploy it at times when, you know, it's most necessary, reducing the use of fossil fuels. At the same time, I think, you know, certainly this committee is not on the forefront of research in terms of the best way to handle this. So I think, you know, just, I think that unfortunately might have to be more unlike citing solar that might have to be more, I don't want us to open ended, but it's going to change constantly. Yeah, great. Thanks, Laura. Jack and then Chris. Thank you. Thank you. Lauren, my hand. I just want to say that we are, you know, constructing this white paper through the water supply protection committee, and we are hitting on the battery quite heavily. So we'll have, you know, good amount of references. The, you know, National Fire Prevention Committee or NFP, I believe, has some of the best documents, but we're going to touch on that just so people know that's coming. And, and then also I wanted to say that way back, I think Chris Brestrup and I had a conversation, the city of Holyoke with the Holyoke gas and electric, they are separating battery versus solar bylaws, because they see, you know, battery, you know, you know, forward thinking that there's going to be more battery installations and neighborhoods to help with, with peaking and peak shaving and things like that. And so they strongly suggested that we had to buy laws. So, and I, you know, I think Chris may, you know, agree with as an approach, but again, you know, my digging into this, the white paper, there, there is no buy law for batteries right now. So we would be, you know, on the front end of this, people are figuring out and, you know, it's, it's, it's a wild wild west with regard to the battery situation right now, as far as I can tell, but look for, look for our white paper, hopefully in a month, we'll get that done. Okay. Yeah. Great. Okay, I think we're getting deeply into batteries, which is probably a whole nother topic for a whole nother agenda item in the future. So, but let's keep, keep, I want to hear from Chris and then Stephanie, and then, and then we can maybe make progress. We're still on staff updates, I think. So I just wanted to note that we are focused on large scale solar installations, and that would probably include large scale battery installations. I don't think we're focused at all on the residential scale, especially single family homes. So I just wanted to clarify that. Thanks. Okay, that's, that's helpful. Yeah. Okay. Stephanie. Yeah, I just wanted to point out that I would say even within the next year or so, there are so many opportunities and so much push from the federal government now and even the state government with our new legislation that's addressing climate change. And a lot of that is pushing electrification that there will be probably more direct guidance because this is going to be an issue that's going to come up everywhere really. So I would anticipate that you'll get more guidance in the, in the near future. And even if you don't, I mean, even if it's not quite in existence, when you're ready to submit this proposal to the, to the down console, my guess is that, you know, it'll probably have to be revised or at least reference the updated guidance. Great. Just to add to that, I would expect that as these battery storage, both stationary and in vehicles become pervasive throughout the state and the country that our first responders will also be, they'll be programs for our first responders to be trained and equipped because I would imagine that would have to be part of the state strategy. And so again, we, we, we, we let's sort of keep that in mind as well as we move forward. All right. Okay, that was actually really good conversation. Thank you. And we're not done with batteries at all. Okay, but anything else in terms of staff updates. Great. I also think it, well, it's not technically on the agenda. I think maybe if Stephanie is okay, it's also several of the committee members that we have. I think we should just represent liaison with our, with our other committees in town. And so I wouldn't mind also maybe seeing if there was any updates on any of the other committees that we liaise with. And represent to some extent on this committee. I'll say for ECAG. I've never done this before, but I missed the last two meetings. I don't, I don't actually have an update from ECAG. But, but I think it would be helpful for us to sort of go through that process as well as me as we move forward. So any other of the committees that we represent, I know we have the water and the conservation committee, I believe I'd have to look at my. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And the planning board and so forth. Yeah. But any, but any updates from those committees that are useful for us. Jack. Yeah, I'm going to say that we, we are close to having a draft. For the, for the white paper. With regard to how. You know, construction monitoring. Leaching. And so we're going to have a, we're going to have some things like that. Trying to address the water resources. Concerns that we've. Kind of come across. With, with regard to, you know, the general community. And we're even going to have a. What Q and a. Sort of fact sheet sort of thing, just responding. So this is, it should be a good document, but we want to get that to the entire committee. I think it's going to be a good one. I think it's going to be a good one. I think it's going to be a good one. I think it's going to be a good one. I think it's going to be a good one in the next couple of weeks. So we're still a month off. But I think that'll be very helpful. And it hits on a lot of the tactical stuff, although it's. Focused on water resources. So. Can I, can I ask there just in terms of what we might expect in terms of the scope of it? There seems like. In my man, there may be three. Three things here. One is the, just the. Solar array itself. On groundwater. Just by passively sitting there. Second is likewise with energy storage. And then third. And I'm, it is the construction process itself. Is our, all three of those being looked at, or are you focused on one? Yeah. So there's three main sections. The one is the construction monitoring guidance on that. With regard to the, you know, stormwater. So you're looking at, you know, the, you know, pollution prevention plans and how that's so integral. And then the second part is water quality oriented. And that takes on the solar fields as well as battery. And then the, the, the third one is water quantity. And how is that. You know, how was the solar field. Being placed in the agricultural setting or a forest setting. How does that change. and, you know, downgrade the receptors. So those are the three main sections with the middle one kind of being water-quality with both solar and battery. And then, you know, and then we'll do these, you know, Q&A things just to make it so we're hitting what we have gathered from the community in terms of concerns and try to address those head-on. Great. Yeah, that's, thanks for all that work and yeah, I think that's going to be really helpful to this committee, this working group as well. Jack, what's the name of your committee again? I had Water Protection, Supply Protection Committee. Too many protections. It's Water Supply Protection Committee. Okay. Yeah. Great. Any other updates from any of the other commissions or boards or committees? Yeah. Great. Okay, let's move on then to the next agenda topic, which is our work plan and timeframe. And let me thank Janet for taking a good look at it and providing some comments and then actually, which was my sort of intent as well is to sort of combine her thoughts with the spreadsheet-based plan that I had laid out so that we had one document that we could all use as a guide for us to pace ourselves as well as to understand our scope. And so if helpful, I could put that on the screen so we could look at it as a shared screen. Would that be helpful? Well, let me go ahead and do that. And sorry, have it open here somewhere. Duane, I have it if you need me to. Are we looking at the revised work plan that Janet if you can indulge me, I actually made a version to show, which was basically my version, which was basically Janet's version, but then I highlighted the differences so that we can focus on those. And so if I can share the screen, I think I can. Yeah. Just be sure to send that to me if you can, Duane. Okay, sure. Thank you. Okay, it's nothing remarkable. It's just the spreadsheet with essentially in red, with I think three areas where Janet provided some edits to. I don't think there are any edits to sort of the timeframe and the pacing as far as I could tell, but a little bit in terms of the scope of our activities and our tasks. And I think that's worthy of some discussion specifically, but also just generally whether this work plan looks appropriate for folks, both in terms of the list, the categories of activities and tasks, as well as the timeframe that we have to complete our work by May of next year. I've sort of laid, this is not, you know, we're not going to be sent to the principal's office if we don't make these deadlines, but it's really to keep ourselves on pace and confident that we have the time we need, and also to constantly remind ourselves not to delay and wait to the end to get things done, because there's a lot to do. And already we're at the beginning of September essentially. And so I think we are on pace, but we start accelerating, I think to some extent, in terms of what we need to start accomplishing. And just in my way of looking at this, I said black is where we sort of are really focused on these issues and accomplishing those tasks. And then whether they're grayed out, it's kind of we continue doing those tasks, but it's at a somewhat of a secondary level. But let me first before honing in on Janet's input and suggestions of whether there were any thoughts about the work plan activities or pacing. And before or additions to activities that we should should add here. And you know, one of the problems with sharing is I don't see everybody as well. Okay, now I do. Okay. Okay, so any any thoughts or comments on on this before we hone in on Janet's inputs? Great. Okay, I just to to because I want to also use this not to sort of alert ourselves of what's in ahead of us in the next particularly in the next month or so is where we're really starting to I think exactly what we were talking about earlier. And I think with again, Janet's lead taking some of this effort here on what we actually done a fair amount of reviewing already, but now starting to outline a skeleton or framework for the for the bylaw. And then as we as we as we start that and continue to do that, we can start then also deliberating on on on some of the key areas that we want to discuss. But that really goes on in earnest in this timeframe. I think we're right on time with regard to potentially providing some input with regard to the to the consultants. But but I think we're in good shape here in terms of pacing ourselves for September. Okay, but let me then sort of hone in on on, Janet, maybe you can. I know you're sort of taking notes at the same time, but I'm not doing that so well right now. But maybe we can take one at one at a time and sort of maybe if you can comment a little bit about your your rationale and justification for and purpose for adding additional some additional depth to the tasks here. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Dwayne, especially for putting it in red, I had such a problem like working with the Excel sheet that I was thrilled just to get whatever I wrote down there. And so you did what I probably should have done or but I was afraid to try. So I just said some some ads here and I based it on, you know, the the charge and, you know, kind of goes back to like who does what and who decides what. And it seems like from the charge that we're supposed to be working on a community outreach process to determine what the community values are, and then we're going to incorporate those values into our priority map and the bylaw itself. And so I just added for the first one that we're working with the consultant on the assessment, you know, giving input to them, and then working directly with them in terms of preparing and implementing the community outreach. And I don't mean it to sort of push the consultant aside but just to sit next to the consultant, because I think that one of the reasons we're here is that we're community members and we have a lot of contacts and no ins and outs and then we need to be listening at those sessions and, you know, helping figure out what information the community needs to hear, what questions to ask, maybe, you know, the forums, maybe a survey that's sent out to reach people who can't make those dates. So to me that just seems, you know, it just I just pulled that language directly from the charge, you know, which I could read but I don't know I have that memo which I just all the language in that memo is just pulled out from the charge. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, again, I think this we've discussed this a bit in the past, but I think we've got to hone in on it as well. You know, I'm sort of comfortable with that with regard to working and contributing input to the to the consultant who will be primarily in charge with the community with preparing and implementing the community outreach and engagement. I think we clearly have a role in our charge and in in our working group here to provide input to that process to the consultant I think as you've laid it out here to to work with the with the consultant I'll sort of edit that with the consultant to help them prepare to prepare and prepare for the implementation of the of the community engagement strategy. So I'm looking at that first edit, I'm good with that but appreciate any input from anybody else or thoughts from anybody else including Stephanie or Chris. Yeah, Stephanie. Thanks, Dwayne. So I don't I really and I've never had any problem with this committee providing input to the consultant. I just want to be clear that staff are the project managers for this assessment and that it makes sense to provide feedback, but I don't know how direct engagement that you will have with the consultant and it doesn't mean that there won't be an opportunity if it works within the budget but again we have a limited budget so I think you know there'll be certainly opportunities to weigh in and provide feedback and to help shape that community engagement but it won't necessarily be directed specifically by the committee if that makes sense because there are other you know the contract is with the town and there will be other departments and other folks who will want to weigh in including the ECAC on this as well so I just wanted to be clear about that. So Dwayne if I could just jump in so in the charge you know I don't I you know I understand Stephanie's point in terms of input on the solar assessment because that's the consultants per view and thank heaven because obviously they're the experts on that but in the charge it says to literally to develop the solar zoning bylaw this SBWG will engage the community to ascertain community values, identify criteria and standards to be used in reviewing and permitting you know blah blah blah and prioritize locations for solar development including large-scale ground mount rooftop and parking lot canopies so it it doesn't make sense to me that we should go into a community engagement process which the town council has asked us to do and not work with the consultant and I don't know think it will just to me is like how do we do that unless we're working with the consultant and that that's what we're supposed to do. Yep and I actually you know to prepare for this conversation I did read those that section of the of the charge but then there's a following section of the charge which more or less enumerates through bullets of what the solar work of bylaw working group shall do and there it's a little bit it stated a little bit differently that the town that we will review the the resource assessment that will identify locations and so forth and that the working group will help engage the community to ascertain community values and so forth so it seemed a little bit stated a little bit differently in two different areas of the charge I would agree but I think you know I think we we need to be prepared that we have this tech the solar consultant or hope to have the solar consultant and that they are working for the town they're they're working engage with several committees and that they are under limited budget and they have the expertise and scope to actually do the formal community engagement and so I think what we need to do is figure out how we can be most helpful in that process that does not overly burden the consultant given their limited scope and budget as well as is done properly through through the proper channels of the of who the consultant is working for which is the town staff yeah doing my understanding of this wasn't it makes sense to me I know we covered it before is that we're going to be able to review the consultant's work but really our comments are going to go through Stephanie and other town staff just to make sure it's on track just just as just just as just as other the ECAC and others their comments are also going to be siphoned through town staff just for the sake of efficiency exactly and I would also add to that I think in addition to reviewing the results or findings of the of the consultant I think we do have a role to play in bringing ideas forward to them at the beginning you know in a way that's not burdensome and is done through through Stephanie and Chris but in terms of what what we as a working group would offer as suggestions with regard to the types of questions or or preferences that we would like to solicit in through their methodologies from the community yeah yeah I mean I would like I would like to say something here and and Stephanie that you know it is our town manager who approved the charge written for our committee and the town council that approved it and so our town's government has stated that it is our committee that really has the role and the overall responsibility to solicit the input from the community I mean we've all agreed that it really makes sense to have the consultant actually do the work of you know setting up and planning a forum and so on but but it really seems to me that our charge is clear that it's our role to define the types of questions to be asked at the forum and you know and how and what to solicit from the community and that that's our job to do and so it means maybe at the minimum we request that the consultants simply you know come on zoom and listen in to the discussions that we have regarding that and and take on that role I don't see that it's a a big time sink for the consultant but I really think that the town government has defined that as being our role to work to to define the community input and then we agree that the consultant is the one who will actually you know do the process but I just a follow-up question on that though we don't have expertise in developing completely objective questions and this I'm assuming the consultant will have similar experience engaging other communities across the state I have a lot of concern you know like I have no no concern that we're going to be able to interact meaningfully with the consultant through town staff but I don't think this committee has been selected for our ability to lead you know public dialogue and ask non-leading questions and really solicit what we need to solicit from the community member so I think I guess my concern is the more you know we want them to be able to do their work and have them be an objective third party you know because this group you know we're great but we're not objective um uh so I mean I think you know Stephanie I'm sure you have a response yeah well I would also say that our committee was selected to have you know seven people with with kind of a wide range of expertise and admittedly no one of us is uh you know has a deep base of knowledge on you know all the different topics but we were selected to have a whole range and to include you know three community members who presumably you know have a role to you know listen to what people in our community are concerned about and would like to have in the questions and so on so that's why I see we we we have a role it's not to say that we are presuming to know all the answers I think a lot of us also have had experience in our own past of of you know conducting forums and workshops and all kinds of things on on various topics so it's not like we're totally devoid of uh experience and I would I would add that um I think to Lara's point I mean the the the the the expertise needed to solicit um public um understand public perspectives um and preferences um in an objective way uh with all the issues brought issues associated with with solar is it does take some expertise um and does take uh sort of to some extent a third party that's well equipped uh to um engage with the community to solicit that those those those uh senses I guess from from the community um I do I do think we have the expertise to add uh sort of our perspectives of of the types of of of questions or nuances um and uh range of of of issues that we we we think it would be important to to cover in this community engagement but then to some extent leave it to to the expertise of this consultant assuming we get get who we need um to to take that on I will say that I know DOER through their whole process of the statewide assessment is also trying to solicit similar issues uh with regard to constituent preferences on on solar that's part of the scope of work of this consultant um and um I I know because I was asked to be a reviewer of their initial sort of uh survey is that there there's there's there's a lot of learning that is going on with regard to even how to pose these questions in ways that provide meaningful responses um and input uh and I think they're that they're still uh struggling with that to some extent um and so you know I think it's it's a it's a cross between an art and a science uh in doing this and I think we can be helpful uh and will be helpful uh and should be helpful and and uh I think we do have that role to play but I think it has to be within the confines uh as charged by the town but through the mechanisms that we have as a committee which is you know through staff and within the um constraints of the contract um and budget that the consultant will have do you know I I just want to jump in here and sort of get back to the charge I think I you know I raised this question I don't know if it was the first or second meeting is who's the decider to use the infamous phrase of former president and so you know we have a community process you know it seems logical to me that our committee or you know some groups of us can work with the consultant and the town staff on developing you know a questionnaire or what information be presented it seems like that would be a good collaborative process I'm not sure you know that I have to send a question to Stephanie to send to somebody or maybe there's just a meeting with a few of us with the consultant and town staff but we are charged to do this community outreach but the question I have is who decides what the community priorities are or the values are so you know we have a process we come to the end of it and we can come you know to me this this committee um has been asked to work with the community to decide its valid values what it wants to see in terms of locations and guidelines and then we take that whatever we figured out that the community is saying and put that into a bylaw I think that's our job and I the reason I think it's our job is because the charge says it over and over again and so I don't feel like I have expertise in how to draft an objective question but I do think I have something to contribute about who to talk to what could be in the question what information the committee is seeking trying to figure out values um you know I'm sure the DOER isn't just passing to the consultant like oh just figure out what community values are around you know green energy but they're going to be directly involved with the consultant and framing those questions and so I just think you know when I see the charge we're in the center of deciding of setting you know working on a community process it's great to have the consultant obviously defer and work with them um that that strengthens the process I think um you know at the end of the day I think this this committee is going to the group is going to say here are the community values we heard and then we're going to put together a priority map of where solo locations are going to be I'm not making this up it's all in the charge and so that memo that I wrote just says all this and I'm just picking out language from the charge so that's that's what my my my red edits are is putting the our working group back in as the decider on these really important issues nobody else was asked by town council to do these things we were asked yeah I think I guess I hear you Janet and I think I don't think I guess my perspective is the way things are are laid out I don't I don't see our role being diminished at all I just really want to make sure that um it truly is a third party objective source that's soliciting feedback from community members and when we put forth our final product to the town council we've gone with a third party who in just to be clear this is a trade in and of itself people who develop questionnaires and lead focus groups and you know careers are built on these things so you know I I actually while I love the idea of having you know a consultant sort of hear our you know the things we want to understand you know are people concerned about this or that or whatever um I think it's going to be really critical at the end of the day that people look at our process and say they really did take that money assigned by the town and engage a third party who doesn't have an agenda because you know and and we base our bylaw off of off of those results and let me add to that um and this gets to this activity that has the red edit in it seems like during the period of October and November which I think is about the right time frame is that we as a working group need to work together to come to some with some to some consensus document um that provides our collective input uh and and and suggestions to this consultant in terms of not necessarily their methodologies which they may have expertise on but with regard to the types of areas of questionings areas of questions and and maybe some information about the community that they may not be aware of as an outsider in terms of groups that they might connect with that could also be the town or other any any other committees that are involved with the consultant but in terms of you know from from our perspective in developing this bylaw this this is the sense of questionings and and information that we would like we would suggest and we would like to get from from this community engagement and that that's in terms of the insider I think we need to sort of think about when we get to that point of a collective decision making and consensus in some way where we can all and I don't think it's going to be hard but to come together with a document that we then offer to the to the consultants as our as our input as it says here to the consultant on on the questioning as well as the form of community engagement and then and then in terms of you know the outcome is I think it's up to the consultant to then take that work on use their expertise their methodology doing that objective surveying coming out with their report of their findings and then and then and an opportunity to have some feedback on that but then you know we as a committee can then you know we'll make use of those findings and I think we would have the opportunity to opine on on whether we agree or disagree or to what extent we we're in agreement or not or or areas that we think are still unclear but we need to move forward anyhow and and use that use that that document you know this would become later later in February March timeframe I guess depending on the consultants timeframe we would get to that point so let me I know and I don't know I know let's go with Jack and then Stephanie and Laura I'm not sure whether your hand is still upper or is renewed renewed up but let's go with no no it's not sorry okay and then let Jack and then Steph I want to hear from Stephanie Jack you're on mute yes so I just feel like I have my raise my my hand raised and I feel like it doesn't matter like people are just jumping in and it just seems a little awkward that people are kind of not you know getting your acknowledgement beforehand and just kind of jumping in with comments I just I don't think that's right I don't think that's right so I'm wondering if we can kind of scale it back and and people raise your hand and you call on them and and you speak at that time so I feel like I've been cut off several times okay during this meeting Jack I'm sorry if I was doing that I was sort of thinking of this as sort of my item that I've been trying to present for a few meetings so I was taking a different role but I'm happy to raise my hand okay I appreciate that all right um anyway I you know I'm kind of like in the camp with Laura that I know the town has done so much in the way of you know doing contracts with consultants taking in the the information you know during these meetings you know I'm thinking of you know Stephanie and Chris that they just you know they siphon all this stuff in they work with the consultant and then the consultant will present their work test and at that point you know when they are presenting a product that will have an additional you know input but we're providing Chris and Stephanie with input you know during these meetings so you know I just feel like this hands-on thing with the consultants is is unusual for for a committee to to trying to you know you know be over involved with it because that's always been the charge of our town professionals so I just again I feel like we're hitting this every week and I'm wondering why so that's all all right thank you and yeah and let's and I agree let's try to hit this for one last time and then move move forward and be comfortable with the path going forward Stephanie thank you Dwayne so just for clarification in the RFP the consultant was specifically being sought to provide objectivity in this process and that was very clearly stated in the RFP so they were being sought to have their experience in doing outreach with communities on these kind of difficult challenging issues in in terms of weighing the priorities of the community and yes you all come from very strong backgrounds but you also all come from a very specific viewpoint and viewpoints so the idea was for the consultant to be able to synthesize all of that outreach and input from various groups not just your own the ECAC I can tell you feels very strongly about the assessment and in fact they were the ones who actually called out for an assessment several years ago when they first came together as a group so they feel very much as invested in this as you do so that's why you are both both committees were written in to have some input to the assessment and I think your tasked with the solar bylaw that is the product that you are developing and even though the solar assessment is a portion and is a tool for that it's not the only thing it's the primary thing that you're focused on is the the development of the solar bylaw I worked very closely with the town manager and the development of that charge and I think at this point because this keeps being a sticking point and quite frankly a bit of a problem because it's derailing you I'm happy to maybe go back to the town manager I don't know if there's a precedent for examining a charge and revising a charge but at this point I think it needs to maybe be clarified if it's causing this much confusion because I don't see you you will not it doesn't make sense for you as a committee to work directly with the consultant alone you absolutely all of your feedback all of your input your questions all of that are an important part of developing that assessment I agree um in that community engagement and it will be included more it's not being developed and designed to keep you out it's it's to absolutely get your input but it has to be part of the input of others as well okay thank you um yeah Janet and then Laura so um I think that the reason this is repeatedly coming up is that we've actually never fully discussed it and I feel like it's come up I think I brought it up in the second meeting saying we need to decide we need to figure out what we're you know to to say we need a work plan but we need to know what our tasks are so Stephanie are or are doing can we go to the august fourth memo um and just to clarify we're not really I'm not saying I'm not saying that our group should be working on the solar assessment obviously give some input but also that we should be working closely on the community engagement plan because that's what the charge says but if we can go to my memo I'd like to move on to you know the values ascertaining the values the site map the priority site map and things like that because I think those are really the bulk of our work I don't think we're just asked to write a solar bylaw and so if we can go to the august fourth memo that I sent out which is just paraphrasing the charge or we can just go directly to the charge it's just we need to know as a group as we work together what we're supposed to produce for the town what the town council wants us to do and what we want to produce for the town have to produce for the town um well let me thanks for that let me hear from Laura first and then we can we can look at the charge if it were the memo if we need to yep Laura yeah so first I just wanted my hand was up because I want to apologize to jack jack I'm sorry I'm driving so it's hard for me to navigate the hand thing but I will be better about it so certainly don't like the feeling of being cut off or closed off of a discussion so apologies there and I think just you know I think I don't really have anything else to say about this point except for the fact that it'd be good to put this issue to bed I think Stephanie's comments were very valid about the ECAC having just as strong opinions so I have nothing else to add about that great thank you I guess as I see it this break this breaks up in various different ways in in in terms of what our activities are and Janet maybe we can just maintain our focus on this first one first which is the input to the to the consultant and you know again my sense is that we have the opportunity to end the charge to provide input and so you know it's not we we don't have the direction over the consultant that's the town and their contract but we have the opportunity to provide some input and some thoughts and recommendations and I guess in my mind that would really mean a consensus document from from us that we would work on over the next time period that would provide our our sense of or our recommendations and thoughts to share with the consultant whether the consultant has in their scope of work the opportunity to meet with us on a zoom I don't I don't know and I don't know if that's key at this point but is you know that's in terms of that part of the charge that strikes me as being what we need to to to consider as our our activity but I'm I'm only one member of the working group so open to other other people's thoughts and Jan you have your hand up or is that leftover oh I was just hope it's I'm hoping to kind of talk about the other thing so I could wait till we move on to the charge the other things we need to deliver yep Chris yeah why don't we try put the beds some of these things as we go go along yep okay I'm trying to clarify what Dwayne said is Dwayne saying do not include the red words in the third key activity or do include them they would include them provide input and and I mean you know work with the consultant I don't know exactly what that means you know whether it's delivering them something and entertaining the opportunity to meet with them on it on a you know for part of our agenda on one of our meetings or outside the meeting I don't know exactly what that means but that I guess that was language extracted from the charge yeah yeah so yeah that's that's what that was all right thanks great Stephanie I would just maybe change the language to provide provide input and guidance on community engagement to the consultant not work with but provide feedback and input on the community engagement okay so that would potentially take the place of the of the red language of the otherwise red language yep okay and Martha's correct uh Excel is very hard to edit in so Dwayne I'm sorry I can't find my little hand here I like Stephanie's word of guidance could we use that I always like guidance yeah I can spell it very well okay thanks Dwayne could I make a suggestion to um to sort of help and maybe move this issue on is perhaps to have a vote on the language for this so that you can sort of decide it and then move forward that's just a suggestion you can take it or leave it okay um okay so the the again this whole this whole scope and I agree we need to sort of put these issues to bed and and and move on and and and be in a a common understanding of what we are charged to do and planning to do in our activity so and again there's this language has some vagueness to it but it's the proposed language uh with Stephanie's amendment uh or Stephanie's suggestion uh is that we uh that this task read provide input to consultant on solar assessment and provide feedback and guidance on community engagement strategy on the community engagement strategy to identify community values and perfect priorities um so before let me hear any comments on that um and then uh and then we can see if we can just reach a consensus or or want to take a vote um so Jack yeah I would just take and work out and I didn't want to leave the end there but and provide you know take out the work thing and the parentheses that's that's my only comment yeah yeah that was I was my intent I just didn't want to delete anything yet that um we weren't uh ready to um provide okay so this this is what it would be um and provide feedback and guidance um on community engagement strategies let me just change out the strategies I wonder if you could delete strategy just say community engagement yeah I'm good with that it's a little more clear I think sounds good okay so um Stephanie yes oh no I'm not voting I'm just you had your hand up or is that left oh I apologize that's meant to be down okay you're the row caller not me if we get to that point okay Janet oh I was I'm fine with the language I just I was I was a residual hand I'm sorry okay great so um is there a suggestion that we need to take a vote or is everybody comfortable with this Robert you're not or we don't need to take a vote okay does anybody have any issues with the language as written here great okay let's adopt that as our language there uh and and move on uh and super we're all the deciders here okay um okay so let's move on then Janet I think we're using up a fair amount of time here but that's this is important so let's move on to uh what what will be a little bit later in our process uh here which is um language down down in this in this uh activity uh where it's really to review uh the outcome of the solar assessment and the uh review the consultants solar assessment mapping and priority site recommendations and then Janet uh is suggesting that we add develop priority site map with supporting narrative report so Janet do you want to comment on your sure sure so I think this is a situation where it'd be really helpful to look at the charge itself because again it's the question of you know we have these recommendations from the consultant he's or she has done this you know like here's all the possible places for solar here's how much with our current technology that can be produced here my recommendations for priority you know places to put solar and then it comes to our committee our group and we then do what the charge says which is identify and prioritize locations for possible solar development and then provide a narrative provide a create a map and provide a narrative report and I think what um I don't think this is a small issue or a sleight of hand it's we're not asking the consultant to decide our community values we're not asking the consultant to decide what the priority sites are for our community for solar we're not you were asked the town council has asked our committee to take that input and make that recommendation to it they'll have whatever the consultant says but I think our committee has is is there to develop a priority map and justify it and then present it to time council and then also draft a bylaw that you know it might be overlays that show the priority sites but to send to town council our best recommendation I completely understand that ecac would have a different map I completely understand that it will vary from it could vary from the consultants recommendations but I just think we need to be really clear on what we're asked to do and I think the charge itself is really clear so my changes in language I don't know if they're perfect but are just putting what we're supposed to be doing what the town council has asked us to do and so it but you know I I don't know if you I would love to just the charge language up or my memo which is just pulling that language out I don't know if we're resisting that because I don't know the charge is super clear about what we're supposed to do it has a list it has sentences it tells us what to do I'm not resisting that at all in fact I have it up but Stephanie before we go there so again I think I want to just veer away a little bit and focus on the process which is that there is an RFP that's gone out for a consultant and they have been asked to do specific things and provide specific things this is something that the town manager reviewed is directly involved in the assessment is going to be produced and the final the you know the final product actually goes to the town manager for the assessment so the town manager is going to be the one who that is that final product is sort of delivered to and then the town manager will deliver that to the council I would say that this is another situation where I would tweak this language here a bit to more reflect what I think was the you know the language and the charge I think may not be perfect and I don't think it's clear cut because as Dwayne pointed out in the bottom section of it it gets a little confusing and is it a little the language is a little different so I can maybe look at this language a little bit or I would change this modify this language a little bit by saying again something like let's see if you consult and solar assessment mapping priority site recommendations and provide input on the development of priority uh priority citing and I think with the supporting narrative report again that's not that's something that consultant is being asked to provide so that's not coming from you all specifically but you are providing input on those those documents and you are because again ECAC is weighing in on this too it's not just your committee so they have a role as well and I think the the comment about the ECAC having a different map seems problematic to me I don't think they are not going to be different maps this is going to be something that is a bigger process that involves everyone everyone's input so it's not just your committee it's also the ECAC has input on this process too so I guess you know I would just tweak that language a bit okay let me let's hear from Laura and welcome welcome uh from the road yeah um you've stopped I'm gonna I'm gonna save space uh-huh and I'm not driving um so I think that um I guess what keeps coming up and I think Jenna I've heard you say it a few times and I think this is sort of the crux of the issue is that it sounds as though you think it's the solar working group's job to determine community priorities when in reality what how I read this or how I view this is it's entirely the consultant's job to extract as many diverse opinions as possible and to make sure we're getting an adequate pool of respondees um for input on what the on what the priorities or the concerns or the values of the town is um because you know I think that is you know and I'm I'm I think completely comfortable with the solicitation that the town's put out and the fact that we want this objective third party because you know everyone on this group we all come from different backgrounds and we all have our own sort of pool of friends and people we surround ourselves with but it doesn't represent Amherst as a whole um so you know I think without that third party's ability to go out and you know kind of cast a broad net um whatever we come up with as far as bylaws go our is not going to be representative of Amherst as a whole so that's all I have to say. Thanks Lara um let me just also um since I don't put my own hand up and apologize for that but um just voice some of my uncertainty about the language of the charge uh as well and and sort of also trying to grapple with what we are actually being asked to do as I read the charge um and it says to you know map and identify priority locations for for solar installations I mean I I'm I don't know if I feel comfortable with like going on a map and saying here here here is is where we we think solar should go because we're not um especially if it's on private property or or anything like that so I I I'm not sure whether the charge really um envisions us as a committee mapping uh literally map putting on a map specific parcels where we think solar has priority because I view sort of that's the role of the of the zoning bylaw is to not be specific to this parcel or that parcel but to give the parameters under which solar can be developed um and that in in terms of the language in the charge when it speaks about developing priorities for locations I read that as being more generic in terms of of you know we think the prior priority should be on this type of land and not that type of land on the built environment versus the not built environment um and uh and then leaving it up to the to the mappers and how that interacts with with the mapping and our solar bylaw to then allow developers to figure out where where where it's permissible or reasonable to put solar so I I'm not I'm not exactly clearly at least my reading of the charge is that it's not sort of like putting on a map specific parcels and amours where we think solar should be prioritized um great so let me um I think it was Janet and then Chris and then we'll go back to Lara so could we put the charge up because we're sort of you know talking about language that is you know we're we're looking at a a work plan that's trying to apply what we're asked to do in the charge so so my understanding you know just to before that comes up when I looked at your organization's thing about the solar assessment it was like the solar assessment is kind of a technical document and then it had a whole process for working with the community to figure out where they wanted to cite things you know the community values and then figuring out where they wanted to put solar I think that's what our job is and I base that just on reading the um the charge um and if you know to address Stephanie's thing is we're going to have a consultants map of you know where where solar can be produced you know where the best spots for it and then ECAC is going to have input and then we're going to have input but who decides the final map I don't see that process anywhere in this charge I just think we're a separate committee I mean I know you serve ECAC and Dwayne serves ECAC but I think maybe it's time to sort of separate out what ECAC wants and will do and the recommendations from our committee I feel like there's like a kind of strange blending and I don't know how we're going to work with ECAC if we never meet with them or the consultant I just I just you know I'm kind of just at a loss can we go a little bit higher to the paragraph yeah so I'm just maybe a little bit lower it so I'm to develop the solar bylaw you know we're writing a bylaw the SBWG will engage the community to ascertain community values I'm going to skip the middle part for a second and identify and prioritize locations for possible solar development so I mean that sentence has you know four things for us to do and then there's more clarification and then we're supposed to provide reports the bylaw provide a map with priorities I don't see ECAC on that I think that the solar assessment and the map provided by the consultant will be different from the priorities because I think what we're going to do is get the assessment look at the community values and then space we say you know this is a community that you know we're the book in the plow and we want to protect the plow you know we prioritize farm lengths we've been buying like hell for 40 years so you know even though we'll be using farmlands for solar maybe we'll do dual use so we're going to be putting some attaching you know and taking the information looking at community values and putting it into a bylaw otherwise if we're just writing a bylaw why do we have to do anything else you know why why are these you know I don't see any language in here that says work with ECAC and the consultant to set up a priority map I don't I don't I to me it just seems very clear we're developing a solar bylaw we're engaging the community to learn their values and then we identify criteria and standards to review and permit we identify and prioritize locations for development I mean I don't know how else to read those sentences mostly because they're buttressed by the rest of the language in there and you know that's my job I'm an attorney you know I mean I just this is what this is telling us to do and I don't see any language that is supporting the idea that we're not going to be doing a map with priorities it's not like the priorities for the world it's what we think are the priority places to put solar it will differ from ECAC I'm sure and it will slightly it will this the solar assessment is just telling us what can go where and how much you can get from it all right great let's hear from from Chris and then we'll go Dan so I would just like to say that as part of developing the solar bylaw I think you may need to create a map that says here is where Amherst wants here's where Amherst thinks it's okay to put solar it may not be a priority map it may just be a map showing here is where solar will be permitted in town and that would include public property and it would include private property it's just like it's a zoning map it's in a zoning overlay map so you know just like we recently created a zone that allowed a parking garage to be created on north prospect street well it's got underlying zoning that allows certain things to happen but the specific other thing that it allows to happen is a parking garage and we do have overlay maps that allow other things to happen throughout town so in my mind I think you're going to have to end up with a map that can be adopted as part of the zoning bylaw as a change to the official zoning map that you link with the text of the zoning portion of this work that we're doing and that in my mind is potentially where Amherst decides do we want it here or here and that's also in my mind separate from the technical work that the consultant is doing the technical work that the consultant is doing is saying where is it suitable to have these things and then Amherst decides where do we want to allow these things just like where do we want to allow apartment buildings where do we want to allow you know research and manufacturing where do we want to allow car dealerships it's that kind of a map that we in my mind will need to end up with as part of the zoning bylaw so I think that helps to kind of bring all of these things together and I think if the solar bylaw working group is working on the zoning bylaw they will also be working on an overlay map that is going to be part of the official zoning map to show where does Amherst think it's okay to have these solar installations so that's my my two cents Daniel um yeah I'm actually really glad that Chris went performing because my my question was really centered around what she just said was and I didn't understand really how this map that we would be providing would fit in with and not step on the toes of other commissions in the town but it sounds to me like Chris you're envisioning this as a recommendation that we can provide to the zoning board and not necessarily um an official map of permitted solar sites correct very good um do do try to take your hands down if you're after you mine is up okay um so let's go with Martha and then Stephanie yes okay okay well I I agree I think with with what Dwayne has has said by now and Stephanie I was a little puzzled when you stated that well the consultants report will go to the town manager who will then take it to the council it seemed we weren't in the loop at all with with that and so I'm a little puzzled because I thought that that the report would would come to us for you know reaction to help us write ours but I do think it's important that at the end as as I think Dwayne meant that we do prepare our own document that gives what we consider at least the general guidelines for the priorities of where solar should go and we may we may then in the in the actual bylaw have you know you know certain definitions about you know the slope or the wetlands or the setbacks or this or that and so on to go with it but I just think that that it's very important that that we have the the independence and the and the priority to to be able to to see the consultants report and digest it and discuss it and then write our document with recommendations so thank you Dwayne my hand my hand is up yeah okay okay let's let's just go with Stephanie first and then I'll be quick Laura um Martha I'm sorry I was only responding to the final decision not the absolutely you there is no question that you will have input on all of it absolutely I'm just saying that the final I think Janet kept asking who's the final decision maker the final decision maker up for the assessment and again these are sort of two separate things I mean I think that's why there's there's sort of this blending in a way that's confusing and in some ways they might actually even be two separate maps really there might be the solar assessment that the consultant does that maybe then is what and this has been said all along it's a tool for you to use that may be used to help develop that overlay and I don't know if that helps clarify things but um but anyway that that's just what I wanted to respond to you Martha that absolutely there's no no question that you have input okay thank you Laura yeah so I think one of the things I just wanted to dispel though is that there's and correct me if I'm wrong but there's no way we'll ever be able to come up with a map you know the solar resource throughout Amherst is pretty consistent it's not as though we're setting a wind facility where you know one spot it's great resource and then half a mile down the road it's not um but but the as far as like you know I think I really appreciate Christine's comments about the zoning because I think that's tremendously important but our map is in no way going to be able to reflect the economic differences of a parking canopy versus a rooftop versus I can't hear Laura yep I think she um froze up there let's get back to her if she if she uh because I think she was making an important point but let me let me let me um let me um I guess Chris if I might ask you a little bit more about your this issue this idea of the of the overlay and I guess I'm scratching my head a little bit in terms of what we are able to do or if not charged to do and I guess I'm I'm sort of thinking um okay if if if if we with the consultants have come up with a map that provides technical information about where solar for the for the for the town is um technically able to be done by you know scrubbing out all all the issues where solar can't go and so forth I guess I'm having a hard time understanding um what our role or the town's role is and then and then doing something above above beyond that of of then um identifying specific parcels through an overlay where we we we as a as a town um will allow it to go because I'm sort of thinking okay if I'm a landowner um and and how that maps on to the to the or how that merges with the bylaw that will come up with because if I'm a landowner uh and I have and I'm in this area of town where solar seems to be allowed uh by by all the rules and regulations and I can meet the bylaw that we come up with um then um why wouldn't I have the ability to put solar on my land uh if it's not in this in this um overlay district are you asking me yeah I guess we're just for clarification I'm not I'm not putting you on the spot at all but I'm just trying to um understand and I do I'm trying to make the analogy with a parking lot but uh but I'm not sure if I'm quite getting there um and yes so it could be that the overlay includes most of the town except for places that we want to exclude um but it sounds like what you are going after with the site assessment and maybe I'm wrong about this but is some um map that you um may prioritize you may say we really want solar to go here and maybe it's okay if solar goes here but we don't want it to go here based on wildlife habitat wetlands steep slopes whatever and that would be the map that the solar consultant the assessment consultant would come up with but then normally when you have a zoning bylaw you have some relation to a map that says okay well here's here's where this thing whatever it is can go um and right now we have I don't know 12 or 14 different zoning districts and things get plugged into those zoning districts but if we wanted to allow something to be almost everywhere except for certain places then we might just cover the whole town with okay overlay could be almost everywhere except for these certain places where we don't want it and that can tie into the zoning bylaw and it actually becomes part of the zoning bylaw the official zoning map maybe we won't need this map I don't know what the solar site assessment is going to come up with but I have the sense that it's not going to be um a political map but it's going to be a where is it suitable for solar to go and that may or may not be tied into where do we want solar to go and the zoning map would put it into the category of where do we want solar to go or where do we think it would be okay so I'm presenting that as a possibility I'm not saying we have to go in that direction but in my mind this process leads to that type of map that then becomes part of the zoning bylaw so that's that's what I'm talking about all right great and I think I'm just reflecting on that from the map you showed us before you know we obviously have the built environment where solar is probably reasonable to go maybe a few exceptions but then it's actually turned out that there was actually a very limited amount of amorphous it is likely to pass all the requirements of you know not wetlands not endangered species not water recharge areas and and and and so forth and so that we're probably sort of in the other other spectrum of it's fairly limited where solar can technically go in terms of meeting rules and regulations and and and it just might my sense of where we might come out now okay let me let me um and thanks for that chris uh laura are you um back and able to finish yeah I think so can you guys hear me yes okay what I was trying to say is that um there's no way we will be able to come up with a map that can my initial point was the solar resource throughout amorphous is basically consistent it's not different from one spot to another but there's no way we're going to be able to say oh here it makes good sense because you know every time you do an interconnection study to the utility you know that's a study that the utility does that comes up with costs which determines the economic viability of a project so there's a lot of things that we're not going to be able to do as part of this group so we might say wow we really want solar here on this public piece of land and then maybe we've been solicit responses but the interconnection is too much and the site cannot support it or we love parking canopies or rooftops oftentimes economics for those types of designs can be very cost prohibitive based on the interconnection so I guess you know I think we are just by nature limited you know we can make suggestions but you know I guess my sort of overarching concern is I don't want to have us come up with a map because when we come up with a map depending upon how limiting it is it's basically preventing solar in a lot of areas it's just it's just it's actually contrary to what we're trying to do here so I just want us to be cognizant of that there's only so much we can we can do here because we might say a site is great from wetlands and dangerous species etc but it might just not make sense from a economic perspective so great let me let me in the interest of time let me go to Janet and then Dan and then I want to sort of wrap this up so that we have a little bit of time to talk briefly about the other agenda items yeah so I think maybe what will get us out of the log jam is two things like one of them is this fantastic report called conducting a solar resource and infrastructure assessment which is put out by your group and it talks about like how tech it's like all the technical issues that will be provided including interconnection and everything like that and so I think you know and you know fortunately you don't have to read the whole it's very long but you can just read the summaries and then so it's it's basically saying here's this technical report and you know like you know I live next to acres and acres of protected land arguably you should put solar in it because it's just kind of a crummy right now hayfield but because it's been bought under a certain state program there's no solar allowed there and so that should be in the assessment and so we might wind up you know we're really bickering over like 40 acres or something but you know we will bicker and we should that's that's the job of our committee right to say you know I think this land should be protected no I think this is fantastic for solar because we're so limited um or I wish you know ever source had a connection point here but they don't and so but I think that if we looked at your organization's guide because there's a technical piece which I think what Chris is referring to and then there's a community process laid out there so I don't have to be an expert in that and then RP but I really do think we need to know what we have to decide and what we have to deliver and I do think there is some ambiguity in the language of the charge but I think it's really clear it's like the town council is asking us seven people brought together by circumstance to say hey this is what we think the priority map is given these values that we heard given you know whatever you know the fact that we have a lot of protected land I think a lot of solar capable stuff is going to be on the UMass campus and you know even Hampshire college you know based on who has open fields that aren't under you know various things so I think but I you know I think we should look at this guide look at this process and then look at our assessment and our charge and just figure okay I get it here's what we have to decide and I think we're just going to have some hard conversations but we'll hopefully base it on I'm dying to know the economics of all this that's one of my big hopes for the future great thanks let's go to Dan and then I propose some way to wrap this up so I mean what I'm reading the charge right now is that under no uncertain terms we are we're charged with creating this map but it sounds to me like a lot of the folks are opposed to creating the map with some some pretty valid reasons as well would it make sense to revise a charge let me let me take that as a prompt for what I think maybe to try to wrap this up because I think in one way we've accomplished a lot in our conversation by friendly friendly but frank conversation but also quite practically we did decide on the sort of what our role is and activity will be with regard to the input to the consultant yeah and and and so forth and and that's I think really helpful because that comes first not to say we we we don't want to know what we're doing at the end but the rest of this comes quite a few months from now so what I would suggest that we do is that we as we already have I'm not going to ask again we've agreed to the to the activity with regard to the input in sort of the third third what was the third activity the other ones I think still remain a little bit I think we all learned a lot today about different perspectives and ways to read the charge whether we need to ask Stephanie to work with the town to amend the charge or whether we can agree to interpret the charge in in certain ways and and what I would suggest is that we not to belabor the issue too much longer but we come back and and try to make decisions on these other issues with regard to the role on the mapping and the prioritization and and how that interacts with the consultant who's doing this mapping as their portion of the mapping and we take that up we all reflect on this conversation and take that up as an act as a discussion at our next meeting if that sounds okay with everybody but be prepared to sort of you know it is my one of my old bosses used to say is is that choose and move let's choose our choose what we want to do and move forward and so we'll do that but then so let's let's do that and then looking at the other agenda items which which we won't have time to do today because I want to get to public input as well is that importantly and I think it reflects some of the the conversation we we've had we do have the opportunity working with Stephanie and Chris and myself have and I think as a working group previous time we decided that we would want to move forward with some questions with regard to what can be in a in a bylaw and how to think about the bylaw and legal aspects associated with it we have developed a line of questioning for the legal legal counsel for the town KP law and particularly with Stephanie and Chris's input and and some review and input for myself we developed an initial an initial list of questions that we'd like to get some responses to from the legal counsel and what we what we are proposing is that we as a working group reflect on this initial set of questioning but then have the opportunity for us as a working group and individually and then together to add either amend or add to this list and that we would then have that and I think it would be helpful and I'll want Stephanie and Chris to weigh in on this but I think even though we didn't have time to look at the initial set of questioning if folks could use the two weeks until the next meeting to reflect on that and send additional questions that you think would be worthwhile to add to this list to not to the whole group but to Stephanie or to Stephanie, Chris and myself we can then prepare for distribution as an agenda item next time a comprehensive list of everything that's been suggested and then work as an agenda item next meeting to parse through that and and deliberate maybe combine some questions and so forth to to come out with a list that we would then move forward to to the legal counsel. Let me ask Chris and Stephanie if that seems in line with you with your thinking or other suggestions. It does and I would encourage people to think of this as we're asking KP law to guide us so that we don't get into trouble with the courts we're asking them to let us know what are the limits of what we can do so that when we you know somewhere down the road we're not going to get into a lawsuit or an appeal lawsuits and appeals always happen but we try to narrow down the opportunities for those so that's that's what we're trying to do great now we just add to that that even though even though some of these questions it seems like other other bylaws that we've looked at include some of these issues I think the town would still like to have legal opinion on whether these things are likely to pass muster with regard to legal legal legal suits yes Stephanie. I just wanted to point out that I'll actually I'm not available on the 14th which is two weeks from today I think you all should do what you need to do but just in terms of the logistics of posting the meeting and getting the packets together and posting the material on the website you know I won't I won't be available to do that for that week so I don't know if you did it the following week I probably could do everything ahead of time I would all week or just the Wednesday I would all week I'm on all week okay so that week well let's let's with any questions about the legal about the questioning for the legal councils and whether people can do that and send their ideas to us great okay so let's let's with that in mind I'm wondering if we might look at if we can schedule the next meeting in real time here and whether because I think it would be problematic without Stephanie at the meeting but and also to post the meeting and so forth and I would wonder whether the following week and I apologize I have a conflict the following week on the 21st at this time but could do it on Thursday for example or Tuesday or a little bit later starting at two for example but Martha did you have a thought I just wondered possibly I mean if we want to kind of get going on some of these things whether Friday the 9th which is a week and a half from now is a possibility just tossing it out I'm sorry I'm not so I'm gone from the 7th to the 15th okay I apologize this is a very rare trip I'm taking with my daughters can't think no so um so Duane why don't we look toward that Thursday of that week that you mentioned I'm out Monday Tuesday and Wednesday yeah okay how does Thursday what day the 22nd what time did we start today is it noon and noon noon to 1 30 we usually go to 2 to sorry noon to 2 sorry I'm not available at that time would you be available a little bit later that day like 2 to 4 I'm in meetings from 12 to 4 so I can I can do 4 4 yeah how about it's a long day for you though 4 to 6 yeah how about well we could do 4 to 6 but that interferes with the family issues but how about how about Friday the 23rd that works yeah noon noon to 2 noon to 2 awesome okay thank you all goodbye thank you and okay your vacation yeah but before we before we sign off we'll need a motion to adjourn I think but also I do want to I'm available um to hang in there a little bit longer and hey Duane yes what about public public comments well exactly was um was uh I'm I'm able to hang hang in there um and everybody else who can appreciate that but I wouldn't mind if we can open it up to public comment and see what what what we might hear but if you need to go obviously uh sign off and it's Stephanie are you in charge of that process yeah if if anyone has from the public has any comment please digitally raise your hand electronically raise your hand and I'll acknowledge you I'm sorry not me not me Eric Bach Rock I've allowed you to speak so you're unmuted go ahead thank you thank you Eric you have feedback thank you and thank you for your work on on this very important topic of the solar bylaw development I'd like to remind this committee that the impetus for and the genesis on the development of a solar bylaw came from the community it was the community that brought the fact that Amherst had no solar bylaw to an unaware town council it was the community that unearthed the fact that Amherst was using the special permitting process to permit large-scale solar unguided by any regulatory process beyond the special permit as I support a comprehensive and deep community dialogue managed by the consultant I also support dialogue between the solar bylaw working group and the consultant designing the community assessment at the front end of the larger community dialogue after all it was the solar bylaw working group that was created to manage the development of a solid of the creation of a solar bylaw and its various and several different component stages so I would urge you to consider the active active involvement in the creation of a the process and the questions between the community and and the consultant and I also would like to know how many participants from the community are on the call today this if you can let us know I can answer that quickly Duane there were seven total there are five now thank you very much great anybody else from the public if they could raise their hand digitally more electronically all right I don't see any additional public comment but we definitely appreciate people listening in and Eric for that comment with that I'd like to make a hear a motion to adjourn the meeting so moved great thank you Janet and a second on that second all right okay that's a tie between Robert and Laura okay uh do we need a roll call for that no no I think anybody uh yeah all in favor all anybody oppose great all right so uh I declare the speeding adjourned and thank you everybody thank you really really good conversation today right bye thanks all okay bye