 Geha, hallo. Hi, Kerry. I've got a few points I want to raise. My name is Geha Sunborn and I'm an epidemiologist with the University of Auckland. And also I'm part of the COVID Plan B group. And I've been listening to your discussions for the past few days in particular, but also over the last few weeks. And I've got a few points I'd like to raise that I think are totally relevant. And the first one is about how deadly the virus is. And so the CDC in the US has said that the virus is between 0.02 and 0.86 has a case with its utility rate of that, which is actually comparable to influenza, which is 0.1 and 0.5. So it's not that deadly. However, where the concern lies is that in those over 70 or over 65, it's really where it becomes more concerning for elderly people. So the point about locking down the whole of Auckland or the whole of the country, whether that's a good idea or whether it's better to wrap care around our elderly, care facilities and hospitals, we think that that is one of the key things that we have advocated for while. The second thing is around lockdowns. And so recently the WHO have come out and said that they need to learn to live with this virus and also, too, they've come out with the experts saying that lockdowns don't work. And so we've seen evidence in the US. There's a number of states that have locked down and other states have not. And there's been no real difference in the number of fatalities. And the key component is actually population density and the demographic of the people within those communities and states. And people raise, oh, what about Sweden? They didn't lock down and look at them. But actually if you look at Sweden compared to other places that did lock down, like the UK, they fear better than some of the places that have locked down. So that adds to the point that it's not the locking down. It's around population density and things like that. And so then that leads us on to the point about elimination. Now, there's been interesting new definitions of what elimination means in terms of epidemiology over the course of this pandemic. The WHO, they have set a criteria that determines whether a country has eliminated disease or virus or not. And in particular, one for measles, the criteria is that you need to have it eliminated for 36 months. So, although we went for 100 days, which is about three months, we still have about 33 months to go for we would have come close to elimination. And that's with the good surveillance, many good testing and things like that. Now, a while ago there was a report saying we wanted 5,500 tests per day. And one particular day we had eight. So it shows our testing and our surveillance isn't too good. And then once we've achieved 36 months of no cases, there needs to be genotyping evidence so that any new case comes, we can compare their genotyping to the virus we've got to make sure it is different and it's not the same. So we're far, far away from the possibility of elimination. We haven't achieved it. It takes 36 months before we can actually be considered about achieving under WHO criteria. The last point I want to make is around a vaccine. So we have good evidence that for a vaccine to be developed in the best-case scenario, the fastest time it's taken for a vaccine to be developed is 40 years with the average up to 10 years. Now, in many cases where viruses, we have never been able to develop a vaccine for instance HIV. So, you know, if we're going to lock down and keep our borders closed and they're hoping in the wait for a vaccine for in the best-case four years and the worst-case never, I just can't see the logic in that. And so, I think, you know, we initially and our Prime Minister initially said we've got a place in the curve and we don't want our hospital system to get overwhelmed. I think we need to go back to that. We need to protect our elderly care facilities and our hospitals and we've got to get away from this fantasy of elimination because it's driving everything. And also, I think, we need to clearly accept how dangerous this virus is and it's not as dangerous as the care that's been instilled into our community. Absolutely. Gairhad Sunburner, epidemiologist at Auckland University, not just somebody with a few reckons.