 You're welcome back. It's time now to go to the papers and see what made the headlines this morning We're going to have as I guess this morning with that to make a lot. We use a legal practitioner that always talks with us From Legos here. Good morning and welcome to the program. Mr. Kola. Oh, Lee Yes, I had a great night I'm dragging the yes. I wanted to weigh whether it is supposed to be yes or no because in this in these times it's difficult there was no light and Buying fuel that will take you for a whole night is a problem in Nigeria, but I did sleep well So we thank God for small message. Welcome to Of the press Okay, we're beginning our our discussion on the headlines for this morning with the Guardian newspaper The Guardian newspaper has a very bold headline there fear of sovereign debt defaults Takes toll on banks economic outlooks and all that is it's it's something that we Very very interested in fear of sovereign debt defaults takes toll on banks and economic outlook We are looking for an economy where we will improve in the next few months and Make sure our reserves are Very healthy Make sure that the people leave a better life and all that and now the banks that carry out a lot of Financial activities that will define what a country's economic outlook is like Afraid because they might default on these foreign sovereign debts Now they're struggling to do things I'd like to hear your comments on these and tell us whether you think there is a solution to these or There is something really really good coming up in the nearest future Nigeria has been very reckless in borrowing Especially on that the last day of the year So to be at almost all our enemies not goes into Making our obligations to our creditors And that is not to help for any economic growth No economy grows when it is choking in debt but only Should have been some levels on the strength on the reckless boring that we saw Learning the last regime The national assembly that should have applied the break The state And the minister the following I mean the finance ministers Who admittedly should have cautioned the government With regards to all this accumulation of debt Even discharge responsibilities The weird melody should be discharged We'll ask you a question whether there is the solution out of the of course there are If you meet some other parts of the paper this morning you will have seen That the federal government Under president Has raised the panel to look at ways and means of improving Like the needs of the generated from taxes all over the country That is a very good direction with the government is going If the panel is able to come out with very very crucial Initiative and suggestions as to how to improve path collection in this country That will be one way that means Of relating the people to this point to pay our debt and Make the country become earlier initially The other area that I believe I'm told Is that the cost of contact in this part of the world? It's It doesn't happen again any other place So we require to look at the cost of executing government contract projects With you to cutting down on all those things So that we can please some resources not just to pay our debt but to also invest in infrastructure development The other area we could look at is the major importance the money coming from petroleum from the petroleum sector and then from customs. I Have given you the example before the town of the Shibu when Chief of Staff in Merola was a finance minister and the Prime Minister in quotes What is this? want to see all of these opportunities for leakages at the ports in customs in Cocoa industry or the plantation and export of cocoa as in some of these are the needs generated in areas that puts credible men and women in charge of those places who are able to help them block all the leakages and also to raise the revenue profile of those arms of government and with that we're able to generate a lot of money a lot of revenue to meet government's obligation of course to we have always emphasized this that the cost of government is also too high say for example the President Mr. Ahmed Bola Sinubu who is now going to be having about 42 ministers and then you begin to ask yourself better than cut down the number of ministers why is he increasing their number for every minister to repel Salahiz and other emoluments you will provide vehicles you will provide accommodation and no minus of Sunday things that leaves the economy that leaves the revenue of the country that doesn't go away for prudency and it also doesn't speak well before our creditors of course you can also go to the National Assembly one of the first thing the National Assembly did was to allocate to itself about 70 billion Maira we used to buy vehicles change their workloads and not provide accommodations for them when almost about 90% of them don't have their houses their private properties in Abuja where they will be living and in a way also be collecting rents for those properties all these are areas the president could look at and find ways of me to reduce expenses in that area but if we are afraid of getting on people's toes of doing what is right no creditors will take us serious I might not be able to obey some of the debt that is coming from these areas of sovereign wealth and so many other areas we are all in so many other areas they fall in their lives as being old the world bank is old IMF is old beautiful for some of these other lending nations so these are some of things that we could do to really be able to meet our obligations to our creditors okay well you have mentioned very beautiful things that need to be done blocking of leakage and so many other things that you mentioned but one worrisome thing is when you talk about increasing tax money that comes from tax into the federal coffers the fear is almost always that the people will be milked dry because of this move to make sure that the tax revenue increases a case in point is lego state for instance the revenue of lego state moved up very very high but that necessarily wasn't because so many companies came into the place so many jobs were created so many things were done but so the things that brought in the money as some people will argue are things that the people themselves have to pay for and all that the toll gate here the taxes where you're selling your little wares and so many other things now a critical point when you want to raise revenue is when there is a lot of employment that people get engaged so much they make the money and then pay the tax another one is investment in the society is there a good investment climate in Nigeria at the moment that can attract a lot of investors into Nigeria that will raise this revenue of Nigeria in the shortest possible time or are we really going to rely on the taxes or over taxing the people of Nigeria in spite of the fact that there is so much suffering in the land right now do you think this is realizable getting all these other things that you mentioned blocking the loopholes reducing the cost of governance when you see like you mentioned yourself a billion given to less than 500 people and so many other things that are happening right now do you think the government like the president has said is moving to end over reliance on borrowing for public expenditure where will the money come from is it from Nigerians that are impoverished right now or is the climate good enough economic climate or the business climate good enough for people to come and invest from outside the country and so make us to make money my point of departure will be referring to the letter that the next thing coming back now works for the president working on the gold apparently we won't go out a month of money that some of the oil companies some of the taxes that some of these oil companies are not limited to government we also meet with a friend to mongols a month of revenues that some of the banks have collected on behalf of government which they are not limited and he argued in that letter that if the president or the government is able to get some of this money it will go a long way in addressing the challenges of the debt that the country is owing all over the places while the president is making efforts in that area baffles me a great deal the second area I want to address is the taxes you have talked about there is no doubt about it that the average Nigerian person is already choking in taxes there are multiple taxes all over the places I will give you two examples the federal government collects value added tax the legal state government also collects the consumption tax and you want to ask yourself what is the difference between value added tax and then consumption tax which the legal state government is collecting in my humble opinion they are all the same thing you can also go to some of these other areas too and you find that there are multiple taxes all over the place and like you said when the industries are not engaging any productive activities and when individuals are not employed where do we expect them to get money to pay their taxes that question is very germane one what it is like what comes first the chicken or the egg without recent taxes you cannot provide infrastructure you cannot provide other means you cannot change the industry to become productive and if you also overlap with people the possibilities are that the industries their disposable income will shrink if not totally collapse so all of this is out of the balance so that we can have a middle of the road for the industry but also for the individuals to be able to meet the obligations to government and for government to be able to provide the infrastructure and not the necessary facilities that will lead to creation of jobs not just by the government alone but also by the private sector that we are talking about are they being efficiently collected if you look at the mandates which the federal government which has given to the committee that they have set up the emphasis is really on putting collection of the taxes that are already on ground to generate taxes but the truth of the matter is that the taxes that are on ground today are not being efficiently collected most times if you are following the activities of the national assembly you will find that most of these that are generated goes into lining the pockets of individuals look at the progress that is coming up in the national assembly which is also the federal look at the revelation that is coming from there also look at what is jammed the joint administration has been able to do before Isiak Professor Isiak the man with the digi of jammed got in there before jammed used to go to government to best money to carry out his activities but since the man got in there since the God-fearing man got in there he is not only able to generate revenue to make all the obligations of jammed but he is also paying substantial amount of money into the corpus of the federal government if we are able to replicate what is happening in jammed in some of these other federal government agencies you and I will see that people with the money that is coming to the federal government that is coming to some of these state government with regards to revenue is enough to manage this country efficiently and prudently which will lead to a sustainable growth in all areas of our endeavor but can this be done? can this be done? for Russia and the government they make in this country and if we rein in this corruption we will just continue to accumulate debt and to be running around in the corpus can we rein in this corruption that you are talking about Tunde? can we rein in the corruption that we are talking about knowing that ok let me give you an example as well in the oil sector you will find out that they have been talking about subsidy subsidy money lining the pockets of a few people and I am sure you and I know that we know or they know the people whose pockets this money is lining and nobody has been brought to be even with the present administration so do you think this corruption can be rein in? do you think cost of governance can be cut when all these things that are happening are still happening till now? do you think that all these solutions that you are proffering and even the ones that Femi Fala also profiled will be followed or it is just go tax them more that will happen when we cross there and we find out what was on ground wasn't palatable at all one of the first things we did is to give up all the wealth that he has on monthly estimated he surrendered all the housing that he has built with proceeds of corruption and nobody did that he asked all the federal minister all the governor to do the same and those who didn't do the same he went after them confiscating the asset what I am drawing out of this is that if the people in government presently are ready to commit a class suicide with regards to all the bigger money acquired wealth and they are also ready to step on each other's toes it will be possible to really fight corruption the way it should be fought and then when you go back to the speech delivered by Mr. President Donny's inauguration he had talked about fighting corruption we hope and pray that he will be committed to that sort of declaration that he had taken that he made before the Nigerian people when he was being thrown in furthermore he will recollect that he has also said and set up a lot of committees to inquire into what has been happening at the central bank of Nigeria and some of these other entities generating cognizance but with that as a thing some of the things that we have also found happening when that the president is being he is very disconforted he doesn't give anybody any a kind of assurance that the president will be able to work his talk for example a ship or set up has been carrying about 3 million metric tons of petulon products which almost amount to the daily products of the Nigerian products in the air sector and right after he got the ship sell the product sell the ship they were told that the ship was set up late and the products inside it are not just dissipated into the Atlantic Ocean a nation that is in this kind of a debt a nation that desires to free some resources to be able to engage in development will not do that that action portrays us as a country of a political a kind of political republic so the truth is the president was ready to step on people's toes if he wants to be able to raise resources to engage in all the developmental plans that this country requires to engage in and let me say this the opportunity in our hands today the opportunity in the hands of for example Amit Timber might be the last opportunity that the Nigerian ruling class have to redeem their image and turn the economy and turn Nigeria around if they say what we saw when they are providing the gaze of Nigerian police will be a choice play in fact what I am saying is fire next time okay well stepping on toes that you just mentioned is that one of the things that is happening now let's go to the point newspaper now where we have the report of a University of Ibadon student making the list of this panel one student final 400 level students of economics has made his list of the panel that will be investigating this and putting things in order and some people have said that yes it's a good thing that it's a sign that the youths of Ibadon that this has been selected also to be a part of this panel but will that serve the purpose when you have people who are experts people who are very professional in that field that could have been called upon to do the needful instead of going to get a struggling student inside the university she has not even graduated to be a part of this panel about what he has just done my brother is a very good development is a very very logical appointment you see most times when you talk to some of these young people they are very very intelligent they are also highly exposed the opportunities that they have now we never had them they are the internet at their disposal television all over the places telephones in their hands talk that information is at their fingertips any serious minded youth any serious minded student who has access to all these facilities to be able to contribute meaningfully in the kind of panel and which is there has been adopted the second one is that we must remember that the youth are the leaders of tomorrow if we don't start grooming them early the way, for example, I met in Ubu as packet with these young girls we might be jeopardizing our future if I could be determined to cut in our own noses in order to spite our affairs so this guy is going there to learn he is also going there to learn he is also going to represent a consistency and he is also preparing for the challenges of the future so to that extent I welcome what the president has done and I will also enjoy the girls to discharge their responsibilities do you think the committee of this nature do you think to prove the point that the youth are capable of the capacity to do some of this we must remember that the universities are in crisis they are looking for ways of meaning to also improve their own revenue generated formula and most of the time when the universities increase cookies the students always go on protest they go on rampage with their endorsement of this case to this committee they came with the espoules to the revenue, to the money coming to the covers of government and with the espoules to be able to carry the message back to our consistency which is the student consistency the university community that this might not be as the students think it is because they have written ideas to the problem think the government has more than enough resources to invest in the universities and they are not doing it just a moment just a moment please just a moment Tunde just a moment there are two things that have come out from what you are saying and I need some clarifications first of all is that you said it's going to be a good opportunity to learn for the girl and I'm wondering is a critical committee like this fiscal policy and tax reform even though I know that Abadjeh herself is the president of the tax club in her university and all that but is this committee which is going to change the outlook of this nation a committee that somebody should go and learn inside it and secondly you sounded like she is going to be groomed to become a mark piece for the government when she is talking with the students back to her constituency as you put it and all that so is it really going to be a critical function that she is going to function in that place to make sure that the country becomes better or is she going to learn and thirdly let me just say this why not if we need to groom the youths make them these so called ministers of state that really do not have functions that they do but they can stay there and learn for the future and be good enough to become ministers one day remember that the first Esquiamo said the other time that it was not even supposed to be that position of minister of state so why don't we use that to groom our youths instead of putting them in the critical positions that they will now start to go and learn before they function well the way they should function I am just saying what Abadjeh said is that quickly I spent several years in journalism and I've also been doing a practice now for about 17 years I do not believe that any time I venture or ask cost to go back to the area of journalism I see find myself learning one or two things any time I also go to court I find myself learning one or two things on the same basis so there is no end to learning the senior advocates are in court some very young people are very smart who made such plans and made two ones they are in court who are there to teach me new things so all the people you have on that panel will you also be going to that panel to learn just like Abadjeh learning is not just for Abadjeh alone but for all the people in the panel so what they will be exposed to are things that we do not see on a daily basis say for example what is happening depending on the character commission who would have thought that depending on the character commission would advance where jobs are being held and sold by commissioners in that commission so good me it is not lack of place in some of the say we have this one day governor students who are doing well they are giving the opportunity to ask a governor for a day and some of these will ask for one day the experience that those children will go through for that one day will inflate them and love them for the rest of their life so that extent I think we should encourage what Mr. President has done and also continue to support him in the appointment of young people into his cabinet because the youth are the future of this country okay let's break away from talking solely Nigeria let's talk Ekoas now Ekoas that's on Niger Ekoas plans fresh sanctions on Burkina Faso, Mali UN talks fail that's the story there on the punch newspaper and the writers are Ekoas leaders meet on Thursday after botched AUUNUS visit to Nyami and then over 100,000 IDPs stranded in Niger businesses grounded in Sokoto and Burkina borders what are your comments on that sanctions, sanctions, sanctions on countries that have military rules and right now a big superpower like Russia is giving handshakes to all these countries that have military rulers so there's going to be an alignment moving away from the west to Asian countries and that's what we're seeing China is also trying to get a piece of the action Russia is getting a piece of the action in other countries might capitalize on that so sanctions, sanctions, sanctions let's hear your comments on what is happening the might of Ekoas as regards the Niger conflict and what you think they can achieve with all these sanctions my last bridge when I see what is happening in some of these African countries the state of USA table and some of these African countries they are changing honestly speaking it is a monumental setback for us as a people that in the 21st century some people because they have access to AK-47 bullets who just shoot their women to power and impose themselves on us and then they pretend to be our messiahs most part of Africa has been ruled for military men by military men for over 30 years what's benefit to this right from their rule message nothing mention the development that are taking place in Nigeria between 1999 and this 2000 and 23 and relate it to what happened when the USA were in power in Nigeria for about 30 years you cannot compare despite of the corruption we see initiated we see development we see competition all over the state of the position with regards to the movement in Nigeria a state forward that we never saw under the military so for anybody to not begin to pretend that he is a messiah like the young boy in Burkina Faso he pretends that beats my imagination it's not right no matter what you are the panel and the voter card to beat the means of getting into power and not otherwise make them discredit Mr. Kola will it and then go into politics as regards the sanctions we are talking about sanctions have never was anywhere sanctions have been imposed on Russia since it invaded Ukraine as it crippled of what are the government in there sanctions have imposed on so many other countries around the world but it has not led to the collapse of the government in there because like you said some other country want to take advantage of the sanctions to sell their goods and services and also to step into the shoes of those who are imposing sanctions so I am not to show that sanctions is going to be the case that sanctions is going to solve the problem we need to take over in some of these African countries I would advise all like to see the carrot and the stick approach which President Kola met in Ubu had planned to use before pressure started mounting on him not to go to war in Nijie and some of these other countries this Nigeria should break down the neck of the junta in Nijie in Bokina Faso and Malia some of these other places I have the feeling that the government over there will collapse because they are very fragile they won't be fighting this war alone that is another thing you have to consider Bokina Faso has volunteered Malia has volunteered and I am sure they have already signed a contract with Wagner of Russia which means Russia is in the know and they are ready also to give their manpower so Nigeria or Ekoas won't be fighting Nijie they will be fighting a section of the people that is not just Nijie and then the collateral damage will be Nigerian at the border how many other states border Nijie more than Nigeria there are so many states in Nigeria I agree with you when we look at some of those countries we are talking about they already have the problems with the jihadis in their respective countries and because of that yes like we too they will not have a full complement of their military to engage Ekoas in Nijie-Rosa fighting secondly their economies are very very fragile talk me I am not too sure that they have the support of majority of their population some of the crowds that you see demonstrating are probably rented crowds people pay to demonstrate in support of the Nijie junta in those places and then you must remember that a Nami is only effective where it is a coastal or familiar with the terrain which it is fighting the Wagner group the Chinese and then the Russia if they come to the threat of Africa to fight they are going to be defeated they could be defeated by the Nigerian Nami but the Ekoas Eami all the fighting that they have been doing against the Raj-Tag Jihadis army we have been defeated by those Raj-Tag Eami America went to Afghanistan it was ended defeated America fought and beaten when Vietnam it was ended defeated in fact I would say the fighting in Nijie is an opportunity for the Nigerian army to prove its worth in Africa this is where we really have to wrap it up on this segment we have even overshot thank you so much Tunde Kolaule for coming on the program this morning thanks for having me do have a great day you too well that was Tunde Kolaule legal practitioner talking to us from Lagos here in Nigeria short break when we return we will be talking about other issues stay with us