 Welcome to Liquid Margin's episode 26, I believe. It's hard to believe that we've been going this long, 26 episodes in the can after this one. We're calling this bodies of knowledge, teaching health professions with social annotation. I'm Nate Angel, your host for today. I wanted to just briefly introduce today's guests and then I'm going to ask each of them to kind of talk a little bit more about their background, what they do as educators and how they got involved in social annotation. And so Danica Sumter is a clinical associate professor at the University of Texas School of Nursing as it says right there on the screen. Welcome, welcome Danica and then Rachel Durer, director of pre licensure programs and a clinical assistant professor at Rutgers and the Kenman School of Nursing so opposite sides of the country almost at New Jersey and Texas in the house. I'm from Portland, Oregon, as is my, my co host Franny French here, and then Becky is down in California another one of our colleagues here. So we've kind of got the up on stage at least we've got all four corners of the country sort of covered except maybe Florida, but we will welcome to hear for your from to maybe in the chat if you want to, if you want to share with that. Thank you so much for the slides this isn't a very slide oriented conversation. So I thought I, I thought I'd kick things off first by asking Danica to tell us a little bit about, you know, we know your title we know your institution, but can you tell us a little bit about what it is, what's your day to day as an educator what is what is it that you work on, and then I'd love to hear how you got interested in started using social annotation to. Absolutely thank you Nate, and thank you for the acknowledgement of the moment, the moments that we've all been enduring and moving through this past almost two years now. So day to day, I am, as was mentioned a clinical associate professor so in nursing we've got these two tracks this professional track and this tenure track. I teach here in an academic institution, especially in our one. It's an interesting place to be in when you're on the professional track versus the tenure track. But I teach, I teach didactically and I also teach practicum. So I teach clinically, and my background is as a neonatal intensive care nurse and a pediatric acute care nurse so children's hospitals I love little people. There'd be people. So I, for the last year I'm going into my second year, have a Macy faculty scholar fellowship. So I'm actually 50%. The Macy Foundation has brought out half of my time to get to focus on education, which in our one is I jumped at the chance to do that. So as part of my educational innovation product or project, I'm working on a toolkit for anti racist teaching for the health professions. So that's what I've been working on. Half the time, which, yeah, so much for percentages. I'd love to hear more about that as we as we go forward let's talk about that more. Absolutely, absolutely. And in terms of my teaching I teach. I did a graduate elective call race power privilege and health that last semester, last fall was the first time I taught it. And that was sort of what led me to hypothesis. So I was teaching it in a hybridized manner. And so we were meeting, maybe once a month in person but the most for the most part we were going to be online. And I knew that it was going to be critical for us to develop cohesiveness as a community. If we were going to be able to have these difficult conversations that needed to be had in terms of race power and privilege. And I was actually blown away with how the class gelled and how they were able to build community and inform those relationships at a conference. And I certainly attribute hypothesis to a large portion of that. And so I wanted to use it again in my spring course so in my spring course I taught a fully asynchronous online course, the art and science of teaching and it was actually the first time I taught a completely asynchronous on online course and again the need to have community be a critical like being intentional about community when people were distant I mean you have graduate nurses. They're working in the hospital incredibly stressed with the things that they're seeing so how do I build a support and a communal atmosphere while we're still separated and hypothesis again came to the rescue. And many of the students were actually educators themselves and so they were like, I'm going to use this in my class. And so I'll share later but I asked them what was it about hypothesis, and they had some really insightful things to share about what was so meaningful, and why it was better than a discussion board. So I'll just tease that for later. Wow that's really great stuff really rich I, I can't wait to dive into all that a little bit more. Let's let me oppose the same sort of question to Rachel does so we get to know everybody here. So Rachel, you know, help us understand your day to day life as an educator in the, in the, you know, medical sciences, health professions region, and, and how does it that you got involved in social annotation. Well, to be enough, I have a similar clinical background to Danica so I started out as a NICU nurse, and the intensive care nurse and I also have maternal child health background and pediatrics, also in maternity postpartum degree. So our experiences are similar and in the clinical aspect. In the academic aspect, I am the director of pre licensure programs so that's the undergraduate students. And that involves a lot of curriculum work and pedagogy, and also a lot of problem solving. So that's what that work entails teaching wise I teach foundations in nursing theory and I also coordinate the course which involves creating the curriculum for the lab and working with the lab instructor so that course has a lab where where the students learn their first skills. And I also teach research for evidence based practice practice, pediatrics, theory and a course called seminar in nursing practice. I'm sorry it's called seminar in nursing. So I've taught like I teach like a wide range of courses. I'm interested in scholarship wise I'm interested in educational research so that's my interest in that respect, and social annotation so when did I get involved with that. So back in spring of 2020 when we broke for spring break, we didn't come back because of the pandemic and teaching went online. Rutgers introduced the digital fellowship and they said is anybody interested in learning more about digital teaching strategies. And they offered this, it was like a, I think it was six weeks and we ended up with a certificate. And that's where I learned about social annotation. And I was like, wow, I can just my mind was like, Oh, I can envision so many ways that we can use this in nursing and I'm not really excited about it so. And I was teaching a summer course that summer I was like, I'm going to use this summer. So that was like an April when I learned about it and in May the summer course started and I hit the ground running. And that was in the foundations course that I first started using it and just as as Danica had said, you know I found that sometimes when you try to facilitate difficult discussions or difficult dialogue in the classroom students kind of shut down because they don't feel safe. And the social reading, the social annotation it gives them a safe space to really have those difficult dialogues with each other. And, and they just, just the conversations that they have, they really open up and it gives them that safe space to have those discussions that they wouldn't necessarily share those thoughts with you in the classroom. So on topics just for example, LGBTQ AI discussions health disparities, they're just examples, where before they really wouldn't open up and also when you think about course content in a textbook, you know just kind of brushes the surface in a textbook, but with with social content, we go out and find that rich content that we, we want our students to look at, and, and really read and discuss, and amongst each other, and, and it's theirs, it's not mine, it's theirs, it belongs to them. And, you know, it's great how you guys are already resonating off of each other, given your shared backgrounds and everything but one of the, one of the things you were talking about Rachel made me wonder because I'll admit I'm a humanities person. I've definitely taken some science, but when I imagine science and the world of nursing and so forth and medical, you know, health professions that you guys are in, I think of, you know, big fat chemistry textbooks that, you know, you go through with the yellow highlighter. And it sounds to me, I was wondering how you might be applying social annotation to an environment where the readings were often, you know, those, those textbooks. But it sounds like maybe you've, you're, you're experimenting with other kinds of readings like in that foundations class. Is that right, Rachel? Yes. Yeah, so it's, is it, and did I, did I take it right that the students are sometimes choosing the readings? Or is it mostly your choices? No, the readings are my choices. So, so I guide the content, I guide what they're reading, but they guide the discussion. So, so they own the learning. They work together and own their learning. When it, when it comes to the reading, but I provide, I provide, I guess, like the lighthouse, and they're the light. That's a great analogy. And so, could I, could I jump in, please, please, Danica, yeah. A couple of things that she said, like, we're super resonating. One, when she mentioned this space where students can share and have a really rich dialogue ahead of class. One thing I probably am not the first person to point this term, but I call it a warm call instead of a cold call. So when I see how students are responding in hypothesis and then we come to class and we're going to talk about it in class. They've already put it out there. And so if I asked them to share, you know, to elaborate some more on what they've already said, it's not technically a cold call. So if you have that person who maybe is not so keen on sharing in person and in the moment they're more introverted or just don't like to talk a whole lot. I can draw them in that way with something that they've shared in hypothesis. And then there was something else that you all said, but I think I've forgotten. So maybe it'll come back to me. Was it around the choice of reading? Yes, that's what it was. How, you know, the Lighthouse metaphor that Rachel just gave, I think about it like I'm planting a seed and they just kind of run with it. So they will then share other resources they'll share YouTube videos or other articles that they've seen. So it like it takes a life of its own and really, I'm like, this is a good article, maybe I should use this next time. And so it is just this fertile, you know, ground for for learning, as Rachel mentioned. Yeah, that makes sense. And I really, you guys are making powerful cases for this already. And I was wondering, so it sounds like you're using social annotation both of you maybe on readings that are sort of like auxiliary to some sort of main textbook it sounds like at least in Rachel's class, I'm assuming Rachel you guys have, have a big textbook for this foundations class that you also are reading is that right? Yes, that's correct. So the readings are auxiliary or, or supportive. So some other examples like maybe a clinical practice guideline where you know they hear that oh yeah clinical practice guidelines are important but until they actually seen one, and really delve into one it's an abstract concept to them, like we'll tell them what it is. But, you know, until they actually read one like for example, a clinical practice guideline will tell them, you know, it's a guideline on how we should treat pain, like pain is an example so the in this textbook, you know we go into the nursing interventions for pain so how do nurses treat pain. For example, an intervention might be we'll put a cold pack on it like an ice on pain or we'll elevate, you know, an extremity if a patient is having pain. So there are interventions that our textbook might review, but the clinical practice guideline is going to say well this is what the research says that we should be doing for pain. So I might assign in that instance, the clinical practice guideline and then they get to look at it and they get to talk about it and have conversation. Got it and are those are those guidelines, like published a separate documents maybe in PDF form or something. Yes, got it so so they are kind of well poised for this kind of annotation, unlike a big textbook. Yes, go ahead. Rachel, I think that's a great bridge because we know how long it takes for textbooks to come to publish in print, and how they might be outdated. And so you're able to bring in the most current evidence and then kind of hold those two things up. It helps students I think be more critical of the information that they're consuming and I guess that's what I see as the challenge as the nursing educator as we get moving more stuff we have to teach. There's no way I can teach them everything, but my job is to teach them how to think about it and where to go to find the information so to be able to help them be more critical and to balance those two things I think is really, really good. I'm jotting down ideas to take back to my faculty. So thank you, Rachel. Yeah, like evidence based practice to some nursing students like we say all the time evidence based practice ebp it's so important, but you know it's like an abstract concept they're like oh yeah we know everything has to be evidence based, but until we really show them what that means. It remains that abstract concept so when we pull it in, like in foundations. It's one of the first classes they take so when we say evidence based practice it really is it's that abstract concept like oh yeah okay. Yes, we have to perform evidence based practice but, but by incorporating like a research article, as their social annotation reading, or, or the clinical practice guideline, and not a complicated research article, one that's easier to read, they're like, Oh, oh I get it now. I get it now and then they help each other to to dissect it and to analyze it and they learn from each other and and have those make those connections and have those aha moments. Yeah, wow you guys, I'm just think I'm sitting here thinking about how much you all are at the center of the storm like it's like not only are you educators in the middle of this pandemic having to suddenly learn how to teach asynchronous online classes, but also you know you're working in this, this field of, you know, medical professionals are really at the first at the front of or hoping to be at the front of, you know, medical care and a time when we're experiencing this global pandemic. And I'm just wondering, seems like a really complex, complex place to be right now, especially when we also have, you know, a national or international dialogue going on about science, and what counts as evidence, and you know, doing our own research about it and so forth. I'm wondering, Anika, you know, it seems like your work really is focused right at the center of the kind of, you know, the ethics and practices around is these medical practices and I'm wondering, how are you, how are you finding the mood of your students and fellow educators and how, how has it been to like, you know, to take on those topics really it sounds like you're taking them on head on right now, and it just seems like a really complicated place to be and I'm wondering, I'm wondering if you could tell us more about what it feels like. Heavy and hard. So many of the stories that come to mind, we had a faculty meeting kind of group faculty meeting yesterday, and our social worker she's our care counselor for students was coming to talk about how to help students in distress. And from the chat and the comments, I was like, perhaps we need to have a spin off about helping faculty in distress because it was, it was palpable. And I think being in Texas. Just all the things that go with being in Texas. It's, it's this certain level of moral distress and cognitive dissonance when there are things that we know are right. And we know should be done, but then there are laws are, you know, executive orders that go against that. And so having to walk that line has been very difficult and challenging. And that's what I do for my colleagues in public health. And so I actually just this year so I facilitate what has been a faculty and staff book club about race and racism done that since spring of 2018. And just this fall, sort of pivoted to it's an art club now anti racist teaching club. And so I've incorporated hypothesis into that to provide a space for maybe individuals who can't make it to our physical or zoom meetings. So that they can see and read these articles about, you know, anti racist pedagogy and teaching strategies, even though they can't come. It hasn't quite there are a couple individuals, what the one of them was a student in my art and science and teaching class. So she's familiar with it so it's still, you know, I think there's a little bit of a learning curve so hopefully that takes off. And they faculty see the benefit, not just in learning the stuff of the article, but in the community that that can that that can facilitate because that's what's been missing. We don't have those hallway conversations we don't have the workroom, you know, chit chat the debrief or the you know, counseling session that you might have with your colleague. So it's been a lot of isolation. And that's made it extra extra heavy, but I will say a warm fuzzy moment happened Friday so my race power privilege and health course meets on Fridays, and we've been talking a lot about self care of ourselves and self care, especially as we talk about really difficult things. And so when we were doing our check ins for the morning, one of the students shared that she found this epsom salt. That was life changing and she did a soak and it was just amazing and how it changed her, her, her life that week. She talked about how hypothesis was such a part in helping her connect with her classmates, so much so that she bought a bag of the epsom salt for each student in the class so that they could share this self care moment where she was able to like deep impress and all that so I was like, Oh my goodness. I'm going to have to share this with the liquid margins people, because like the power of that beyond what I could have imagined so. I feel, I feel odd. I have never taken an epsom bath salts. I feel like now I should right and sounds good. Yes, they come in different sense now there's lavender there's spearmint eucalyptus. Oh yeah, good stuff. Yeah, I'm gonna I think I might actually have to try that out. And I don't know if that resonates with you to Rachel but just like you know the, you know, being focused on health and public health. And then also, I imagine that when there's this new group of students moving through and they're looking ahead to their professional lives and they see what's going on in the pandemic and are you know what's what's the mood of the students that you're encountering are they. Are they ready to engage with all that, or are they, how do they, how are they feeling. So I teach students in in two different tracks we have an accelerated program. And that's where students, they already have a bachelor's degree and they're, they're coming to become a nurse and they do it accelerated so they'll get the program done in in in four set in four semesters, basically but they go through the summer that counts as one semester. And so that's accelerated. And then we have our traditional students who it takes four years traditional undergraduate students. So, you know, you see, they respond a little, little differently but the stress among the students is palpable I've seen just seen such a difference. Pre pandemic to, to how the students react now in nursing school. They just have so much on their shoulders and another part of the stress is that they don't have access to as many clinical experiences as they had before. I don't know if it's the same in Texas but in New Jersey, the hospitals aren't allowing as many students into the units for clinical experiences. So we have that stress where we're graduating students that don't have as many actual hours, hands on hours with patients. So, we have to find different creative ways to get the learning in, and to help them to develop that credit those critical thought processes, the clinical judgment to start thinking like a nurse, which, you know, for many is is a totally different thought process than what they're used to. I've found creative ways to do that with hypothesis because with the social annotation with the social reading with hypothesis, you know, one of the first things they have to do is they have to notice. And there is a model of a model of thought a model of clinical judgment of nurse thinking that that says that uses in this model it's noticing interpreting responding, and then reflecting which is basically what students do when they are doing a social reading they have to read the text, notice what hey what stands out to me what is important here, and then they have to, you know, think about it, and then they, they have to interpret it, then they have to respond to it, and then they reflect. And so it's, it's kind of, you know, rewiring their brain when and to start that thinking that thought process to think like, like a nurse so we just have to come up with different ways when we can't get them into those experiences we have to think what can we do differently to help them develop those thought process thought processes to have that clinical judgment and critical thinking that they need to be a to be a nurse to practice safely after they graduate. Rachel you you mentioned a key part that the students in their comments talked about you mentioned that the students can sort of choose what bubbles to the surface for them and what they find important. And that was one of the things that students mentioned that it gave them more agency. In terms of what they could comment on. It wasn't like I was giving them a discussion prompt, and they had to focus in on just that. They felt like you know they could read the article, just for the sake of reading the article instead of just looking for an answer. And I think whatever ways again it's the pediatric nurse and Rachel I'm sure you're here, like whatever way I can give them choices to the students where they feel empowered there's been so much that's been taken away from them because of COVID there's this collective and individual sense of grief and loss. So in whatever ways I can give back a little bit of that power a little bit of that agency it's like that's a win. So they appreciate it having that agency, and it just made it feel a lot more conversational in terms of how they were moving through the reading. It resonates with me when you said that the power giving them the power like the empowerment that they have. When you see the connections that they make, you know, I've had students take something you know I assigned on the social reading are like, Oh, well, you know when I read this, this statement or this quote. It, you know it reminds me of something that we learned two weeks ago, or that I read in the article two weeks ago and they're making those leaps that and that's when you're like oh yes that's exactly what I want you to do. And they're there. We want them to carry that knowledge forward and you see them doing that and it and you get so excited. Yes 100%. And I'm like connections yes you're pulling the threads through and like weaving what I'm what I'm wanting you to do and like I don't even know that I could have orchestrated that, like in a way that would have done the things that they're doing naturally. So absolutely. I've seen the same. Thank you a lot. Oh sorry go ahead Rachel. I just wanted to mention one one connection that that just really stands out in my mind. So I had assigned a reading on LGBTQ and diversity and the students were were reflecting on their internal biases. And that was one reading and but then maybe like four weeks later they had a reading and it was on substance abuse and one of the students had connected back to that original article and they were talking about internal biases on patients with substance abuse and I was like, oh, you've got it. And it just made me so excited. Yeah, that's great the, I mean the, the fact that the, the annotation margin gives you the ability to not just make the connection but to make that connection visible for other people as well right like it's a record. I often think of it like the Hansel and Gretel breadcrumb trail, like, oh I made a connection here I'm going to leave a little breadcrumb for someone. This, this conversation make me feel like we should have titled this episode on agency and epsom salts or something because that's the two sides of the coin that we've been talking about. You know, this is just such incredibly powerful rich stuff. I, I hate to swerve into the mundane but I know a lot of folks are always wondering, you know the mechanics of this right so sure you've got some readings and you, you know get your students to socially annotate but do you require annotation. Do you grade annotation how do you how do you set it up, Rachel and you're in your work. So I do require it. I set it up and they receive points for it. So it is they is great that they do get credit for it I also have a rubric it's a soft rubric it's not like, like, it's not a rubric where I don't know how else to word it but I call it like a soft rubric so I, for example, I give them instructions I'll say the first thing I want you to do is notice I want you to read the article. The next statement that stands out to you the next thing I want you to do is interpret that statement. And after you interpret it think about it what does it mean to you. Next thing is you're going to respond to it and that's where you make your annotation. And here's where I explain what an annotation is. I say, maybe ask a question about it, maybe you just want to write your thoughts about it but it can't just be I like this you have to say why you like this. It's a previous material or connected to something in your own life connected to a clinical experience something that happened in the lab. So that's where they're making their annotation, and then they have to respond. So respond is they need they should read through their their classmates annotations and respond to someone else's posting. How did they feel about it. How does it contribute to the conversation. When they receive points, I don't give them a minimum word count because I don't want them to feel like oh I have to, you know and they don't have to cite anything. They don't have to have perfect grammar. Because it's a conversation, it's not meant to be that way. Where they'll receive points off is if they just, you know, say I agree, or I don't agree. And I, and I tell them that so you'll get 100%. If you follow the general outline, but you'll get a point off. If you just say I agree. So it has to be a substantial response it has to have the meaning behind it. I, it's, it's so I call it a software brick but they do have the explanation there that they can go look and see okay this is how I'm going to be evaluated. Rachel question for you, do you have them do the noticing and their initial kind of comment by a certain date and then they have they've come back and revisit by a certain date. Yeah, so usually I assign one a week, or one every other week. And depending on you know what we're talking about that week, and mid week, they should have their, their post, their initial annotation, and then by the end of the week, they should go to a classmate. That way, you know, I tried it the other way where I just had one due date and then there wasn't enough comments from students for them to really look through and choose one to respond to. Yeah, same, same question to you Danica, how do you what's your practice. Yeah, so I, it is for points. The students are expected. I'll talk about it I guess in both classes it's similar. Maybe it's five points they have generally one a week that they do in the race, power, religion, health course in the art and science of teaching. That one I only had maybe two or three throughout the semester, although I think I'm going to scrap the discussion boards and do those instead based on student comments. But like for the, the teaching course, we did a chapter out of teaching to transgress by hook spell hooks. And so I kind of did some annotations, just to show them. I posed some questions for them. So sometimes I might start in the beginning with more of a scripted like you know, what do you agree with what do you not agree with what do you want to push back against, and then encourage them to comment on at least two peers comments. And then that is generally enough to get the ball rolling and I don't have to require. Again, with the nurses that I teach in the accelerated are accelerated nursing program and in graduate programs so many of the students are working as nurses so I don't have a certain number of posts, but generally you know if they make two to three like they get full full points. So I'm pretty pretty lax on it, but I haven't had to be hard, like they, they enjoy it so it just sort of flows naturally. That's great bar agency right it's like instead of doing the work because they're required to it's because they want to. But just as a follow up on the mechanics I see Jim is asked in the chat. I'm about a few are using an LMS integration or hypothesis in the wild as we sometimes call it. I know I bet Rachel's using the LMS integration at Rutgers. How about you Danica. Same, we have canvas. So I'm using it through to the elements. Students who don't know the LMS integration provides single sign on so people students don't have to go create their own accounts, and then the class in the LMS is automatically annotating in a private group. So that you don't have to. I mean if you don't want to worry about that annotating in public versus private makes it a little bit easier whereas annotating in the wild everybody has to create their own account and you have to make decisions about the privacy of your application and so forth so it can be a little more complicated. You know, I realized we're getting pretty close to the end of the time here. And I, I've been asking a lot of questions but I wonder if, if you all Danica Rachel have questions, either for each other or for us at hypothesis that might lead to some interesting conversation did you come with some questions in your mind that you might want to answer. So I wouldn't be surprised if you actually know I spoke with Jonathan, I guess at the end of the spring semester and he actually answered the question I had that had to do with the groups the small groups. So in my teaching course they were like 40, a little over 40 students, and it was kind of it got unwieldy, having them all sort of comment on the same and so now the ability to break into smaller groups and to have those conversations. So the class I have this semester is small so it's not a big issue but in the spring when I teach that course again, that'll be good to have those smaller groups. That's been my only other one and then I wanted to use a tag, like a glossary. So you mentioned, you know the humanities so we are nursing and yes social science, but humanities, it's supposed to be a big part of what we do but it's not always. So a lot of the readings that we're doing for this class are you know sociological anthropological etc. So there are some words that are just unfamiliar to the nursing glossary. And so I had a tag for these words like glossary words, but I don't quite know how to kind of compile them in one place so that we can kind of keep a running just the glossary of terms for this for the class that they can then refer back to when they're doing projects or just doing other readings. Yeah, that's, that's a great point and I mean the tagging and hypothesis. You know, right now it suffers from the fact that it's not structured right like you can sort of, you can kind of add any tag you want as opposed to having like a set vocabulary of tags that might be used. And so we've talked about ways that we might structure it more in terms of actually seeing the results of tagging. There's a little bit different experience again between the LMS version and the in the wild version and the individual kind of account web app version. And I'm wondering, you know Becky you're here, and maybe you're listening still. I'm wondering if you might have a little bit of an answer on that in terms of the new. I'm even blanking on what we call it but the new capability. Is it notebook. Becky may have some other issues. Yeah, I'm still here still listening in regards to like how the notebook can give you some of that additional insights or yeah like can you I can't remember now can you use it as a way to see all the tags in a particular document. Not yet. Not yet. So in the LMS, the notebook at this point allows you to, and all after I share this up or a guide for how to how to access notebook if you're using the LMS integration of hypothesis and at this point you can see all of the annotations for all users and instructors across the course which could be great for some of those like higher level summarize summaries and looking to see, you know, kind of the bigger picture of what's being talked about you could select an individual student and sort of see how they've annotated across all of the readings in your course. In terms of the other functionalities of like looking at specific tags and, and, and like selecting specific documents to see what's happening across it is is to come still in the works. And it's a little bit we're trying to catch up so in the non LMS wild app right there is the ability to filter all the annotations like buy a certain tag which is I think what you're you're thinking about. And so we're trying to make the notebook bring that parody together so that those kind of capabilities are available inside the LMS as well. So we appreciate your patience. There is also the capability to search in the sidebar. I don't know if you've experimented with that little bit. I see Becky's put the, put the link to the notebook, how to use the notebook because it's sort of a new feature we've rolled it out a little bit soft, so that as we're as we're, you can see there's still more stuff to be done in it. But there's also some capabilities to search in the sidebar. So that might actually enable you to at least highlight only those are surface only those annotations that have a particular tag I'd have to try it actually, because I'm not taking or teaching a class right now I actually don't have as much experience inside the LMS app as I should so I should actually go try this out. And Becky feel free to chime in if I'm, if I'm fucking crazy. I mean definitely. Oh, sorry. No, go ahead. And that search feature in in each specific reading can be super helpful for searching for tags and seeing. I'm a former middle school science teacher so like if my students are tagging with claim evidence and reasoning. You could see where every student is is tagging their annotations with such. But there's obviously a sort of whole list of ideas of ways we've seen instructors use tags as well. But right now and in in those individual readings this is how that search bar can be particularly useful. Right so the search bar that's right at the top of the hypothesis toolbar. I can experiment a little bit with with using that as a search tool. How about you Rachel did you come with questions right, you know, for us or even Danica. So I don't know that I didn't come with a question but I'm intrigued by this function that you're just talking about because I do use hypothesis in my research and evidence based practice class. And part of that is what they do is they have to critique an article using hypothesis, and they do it in smaller groups so they have to collaborate. And, and I think that that function it sounds like it's I'm just getting all these ideas and it sounds like it would work really well. So I'm interested in learning more about that. Yeah so does the group functionality. So I use the group functionality with that, but the note, the note functionality. Gotcha, yeah. Yeah. Yeah so the notebook is more of a it's like, it's a view to see annotations, like Becky was saying, right now you can use it to see annotations across all the readings and the course as well as just on a particular reading, which is sort of the default when you're in a but we will be adding more capabilities going forward. When you're in a particular reading you can use that search function at the very top to filter the annotations in that reading in various ways like on a tag. You know, Danica you also said something at the start that intrigued me a little bit you said that, you know, some of your students had had shared some some of the things that they found helpful or powerful about social annotation and I was wondering if you felt like you had a chance to share all those yet. I hit some of the high points, just about it more natural, more conversational, they felt like they could comment in the moment. Instead of like waiting until then going back. They were actually more likely to go back and read the replies to see like the rest of the conversation. They appreciated the fact that it was not like a long like discussion board posts that they had to read but most often these were kind of concise. And so again they were more engaged with it and it was more interactive. Let's see, they paid more attention to the actual reading again as I mentioned instead of just like I'm going to read this article just to find the answer to get to the discussion from. And so they were able to actually appreciate the reading more so I talked about the agency piece. Again they felt the discussion board was limiting and just they got to some insight into their peers like thought process. And so that was I think again helpful for that community building, because they could see people who, and they could respectfully push back and disagree and it wasn't you know this whole big thing. So yeah, that was that was harder to do that in person sometimes right whereas you might have a little more freedom in the margin. And I think it, it made it easier to do so in person because you've done so in in the margins first so it's like a warm up and like okay it wasn't so bad. So we can again carry this conversation into the classroom space and we have our community agreement and we've said we're going to push, you know push ourselves. And so it just made that a little bit easier because it wasn't the first time. I think Kat has jumped up here to remind me that we're actually reaching, reaching the end of our time we're actually a little bit over already so, and I know that you guys may have other things that you need to get to Rachel, you look like you have something to say. I just wanted to add one thing so actually Tuesday in class I had a student come up to me after class and actually thank me for an assignment and it was the social annotation assignment and my mind was just like who. So much they appreciate it so I just wanted to let you know. Yeah how often does that happen right thank you for this. Yeah, never. That's amazing well I really this has been such a fantastic conversation I feel like I could talk to you guys all day and we just barely begin to explore some of the richer stuff. I also know that it's busy time and you and everybody has their day to get onto. And I wanted to just give you guys a last, a last moment. Rachel did you want to say anything else before we go or just wish everybody goodbye. No, I think that's it but I just wanted to thank you for having me. It was a huge pleasure on our part in an honor to have you here. So, so thankful that you could take the time to be here. And, you know, obviously you're a very busy person so I really appreciate it and all the nice things that you've shared. Danica how about you any, any last parting words. No, again, thank you all and for any participants that are out there that are on the fence about whether or not to try hypothesis, I would say do it. And we didn't even, we didn't even ask her to say that that was just came came from the heart. So thank you for that. Really, really appreciate all the nice things you guys have said and for joining us here, the recording, you know, we've been recording all along the way. It'll be up and no later than Monday. And so we'll contact everyone to let them know when it's available, feel free to share it out with, you know, friends or colleagues. Have the joy of watching yourself to video which is always fun right love that. So, with that will bring it to a close I really appreciate you guys being here and I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording. Thanks for coming everyone.